Weight-loss

Tommy: It's the Daily Talk Show, episode 69.

Josh: Uh, you were just telling me you want some advice, Tommy Jacket.

Tommy: I need some weight loss advice.

Josh: Well, happy to help.

Tommy: No, it's actually— it's not for me. I'm okay, I feel, at the moment.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: Um, but a friend of mine reached out to me and he said, um, mate, I'm fucking 102 kilos. I've blown out.

Josh: How tall is he?

Tommy: Like our height. Okay, 6'2".

Josh: Yep.

Tommy: Um, and he, he should be hovering around 85, he believes. Um, but we, we caught up and I was just listening to him and I said to him, do you know Josh Jansen? No, I said to him, dude, you gotta stop being so smart. You have the answers to everything. Yeah, every reason that you aren't doing something, there's a fucking answer for it. I said, you like, why aren't you doing it? He's got the answer. Why he hasn't given it a go, he's got the answer. Why he's eating shit food, he's got the answer. And I said, they're all the wrong answers. You need to shift the answer. And but I was so fascinated, and it's like, you've been through all that.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: And you're very smart, and you, you know what to do. And you you know, it's like him, he knows what to do, but he's not doing what he knows.

Josh: Well, there's been a transition in your thoughts, thought too, right? So like, for me, I see the progress in your, in your thinking, which was how to reframe, which I think is more positive for him and actually would probably— it's a, it's an enabling thought, right? Rather than just being like, mate, you're just coming out with fucking excuses. Reframing it to being like, mate, you're too smart, you're overthinking it, is actually a really good language shift that I think would probably be a lot more positive and probably would, you know, personal trainers could take a lot from, you know, because there are, there are a lot of people who are, um, super wealthy, super smart, whatever it is, and they still can't Like I look at fucking Oprah. Oprah has everything at her disposal and she still can't fucking keep the weight off. If Oprah can't do it—

Tommy: James Packer, also billionaire.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: He's blown out.

Josh: It's annoying, isn't it?

Tommy: Yeah, because they could have a private chef. And so anyway, the conversation with this guy, I kind of, at the end of it I said, who do you, you know, think about the person you want to be and you know, who is that? And what do you have to do to be that person? You know, having that, you know, that guy who's fit, who can wake up and go and go for a run, or like, who is that person? You know, thinking about that. But yeah, it was just an interesting thing because— have you, have you been through that where you're like, no, I know I don't do it because I'm fucking lazy, and I know that it's because this, this, and this, and then it's just like you've answered it, right?

Josh: I think it's, uh, it's a matter of prioritization. It's like what your mate Craig Harper talks about, which is like, you're not time poor, you just don't give a fuck about this thing, right? And so, I think it's a prioritisation problem and I also think it's a proximity problem. Example being, in Queensland, I couldn't fucking believe how many attractive people in one space. Maybe a bit bogan, but fucking attract— Like, Super attractive.

Tommy: Tanned.

Josh: Yeah, just like lean, tanned. It was ridiculous. And just the, you know, 4 or 5 days that I was there, I was already like, I was feeling healthier, but I was making healthier choices or wanting to make healthier choices.

Tommy: Is this a Tourism Queensland ad?

Josh: It is. This is paying for the trip.

Tommy: Move to Queensland.

Josh: Well, they need to do something after their Comm Games fuck up. But the, yeah, no, so I think that proximity plays a big part in it. 'Cause it's like, what is it? What is it about this place that has, and it's lifestyle. There's a, I forgot the exact name, but it's like the Blue Mind or something like that. I'll put it in the show notes. It's the first time I've actually added to the show notes in a very long time. So, it's gonna create more work.

Tommy: Other than your PO box.

Josh: Which is my PO box, which is fucking, Dormant. But no, the, um, there's a TED Talk that talks about when you are at the ocean, there's something that basically happens where all your anxiety goes away. And Naysan, my mate who's moved to Surfers Paradise, feels it. I felt it. And so I think that partly it's if he's got a fucking desk, like if his priorities is work and he's working in a fucking tower in Melbourne or whatever, whatever his job is or you're in shit fucking weather. If you're in London, it's going to be a lot harder to do those things than if you're in Los Angeles and every single day you fucking go home, you see people out running and blue sky, sunny weather, 25 degrees.

Tommy: Yeah, so I think that, look, I reckon location plays a huge part in this, but there it gets to the, a certain point where it's like that either is a contributing factor, but it can't be the excuse. Main factor. Excuse.

Josh: Well, so I think that— and that's the thing. So you can, you can do things which will help it move towards one way. So for instance, if you, you know, there's that, um, I forgot what book it was called, but they, they would use the phrase excuse-itis. I think it's like, um, one of the fucking like How to Be Great or fucking I can't remember the exact one. I think it's actually from Eat the Frog, one of like a self-help type book. But excuse-itis, how many, like how many excuses that we apply for not being able to do what we want to do. And yeah, so I think that you can use those locations as a reason. But I think that probably what I found is a good mechanism is saying, okay, so if I'm not near the ocean, I could easily say, because I'm not near the beach, I can't fucking run, right? But there are— we do make some choices and we prioritise some things. So if I'm choosing that I want to prioritise living in Melbourne, then one of the effects of that is that I won't be able to run on a beach each day. So then you have to replace it with something else. So I think it's real, like, tapping into those excuses and realising the empowerment in choice. So it's not like I'm stuck here, I can't do this. It's like I'm choosing to be here, and if I'm choosing to be here, then one of the things is that I'm not going to be able to run outside every day because the weather's shit. But then you create things around that.

Tommy: So it's a hyper responsibility.

Josh: Yeah, it's, it's about responsibility, and it's around realising that is a choice. It was like a friend of— I remember a friend of mine when I worked at the radio station, she was hating her job. And I said, well, quit. And she's like, well, I can't quit because I'm just about to, you know, I want to get this house and some mortgage and I don't know what else I would do. I'm like, well, it sounds like you're doing the job that you have to do right now. And so, it was reframing it, being like, okay, if there's enough reasons to stay and you're choosing to stay, and make that— it's not that you're trapped in this, it's that you are realising that at this point right now, the best thing for me is to be at this job.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: And whilst it's not the future me or the thing that I want to be doing down the track, it's the best thing right now.

Tommy: There's also the, the people who are in shit situations, and then if they actually start to apply the responsibility on where they are is because they've got themselves there, and it's all of their doing.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: But when they realise that what— that it's been their responsibility and they're in a shit situation, it's depressing. That's when it's like, fuck me, I've just done this to myself.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: And so I, I get that. It's hard. It's— but it's a first step. It's like awareness around anything is the first step to changing anything.

Josh: Alcoholics Anonymous, I'm sure, like, it's that same type of thing, right? Like, for you to be able to make change, you need to realise that it's like that you've been the contributing factor, right? Like, if you're fucking blaming a boss or blaming a company, you can't fucking change that, but you can change your actions. So that's been, you know, that's definitely been my focus is on, okay, it's, um, and it's also micro choices too, I think, that is the, um, contributing factors to so many of these things, right? Which is like, it's the, uh you need a mechanism to be able to, in a moment, be able to prioritise when you're, um, you might be low on fucking motivation and things like that. So having, having mechanisms so that even when you're fucking tired, you're still going to rock up and do the training session or whatever it is.

Tommy: Fuck it. Yeah, it's hard. It's— and it was hard, like, listening to my friend talk to me like this. It's like Fuck, it seems so simple. Just start and do something because you've done it all before and you've been a fucking ripped motherfucker. Yeah, but now you're just blown out and you're just being lazy. And it's like, these are his words, I'm being lazy, I can't be fucked, it's windy, I don't want to go out, I've got a breakfast, I need to be at this thing. Yeah, time, I'm too busy. But you know Yeah, it's just all the storeys telling himself.

Josh: And I think the other thing that helps me is there's someone with less resources, less time, less money, you know, that is doing it. Yeah, there's a lot of fucking lean dudes in Eastern Europe or something that's on $400 a fucking month, you know, like, yeah, yeah, there's— it's, um you don't have to be rich to be fucking healthy. And so, um, I think that that is part of the thing as well, which is like, okay, um, what is 20 minutes out of you? I think one of the things is our, um, it's that all-or-nothing approach. It's saying, okay, if I'm going to do it, it's going to be this huge scale versus small incremental improvements which won't necessarily be seen visually so quickly, but it's a lot more sustainable.

Tommy: Yeah, yeah, 20 minutes a day, 5 days a week across a year is so much time that you've invested, but per day it's a minute amount.

Josh: There's a great book called "Mindless Eating." It talks about the psychology of eating and how these micro decisions impact our life. So it's, he'll take something like if you have a Mars bar every week, it will equal to every year you gaining 3 pounds. Yeah. Right? So then you start working out those types of things and say, okay, well, then it becomes very easy to make those micro choices. If you start thinking about it where it's like, actually this thing here is going to be way more weight because you contribute it over a year, I think that can be powerful.

Tommy: Yeah, it's hard. I went to a friend, Craig Harper, he did like a talk. Yeah.— it's called Renovate Your Body, I think. And there was 90% women there, and a lot of them were overweight. And just, you know, him just— it was really— it was actually the day that I'd spoken to my friend about this stuff. That night I was filming the event for him, and everyone there was just struggling with this. And there was a woman who came and she walked up the stairs and she sat down next to my camera She's severely overweight, struggling so much. And I'd like— it's probably not the right thing, but I felt sorry for her. Yeah, that she'd like literally done this to herself, you know. This— sure, there might be some thyroid problems, or— but essentially this was a woman seriously struggling. She was putting her hand up saying, I've just struggled getting weight off. And what I'm getting at here is I looked around the room like, fuck, there is such a journey for all these people individually because there's no one thing. There's no like one fucking, you know, like I'm thinking about my friend's mindset and then all these other people have their own unique storeys and mindsets that they all have to go down. It's like, it's a fucking journey.

Josh: Yeah. And it's also, um, It's a personal journey and it's one that— So like my mate Naysan wants to lose weight. He's got a few health things like sleep apnea and stuff like that, which fucking makes it hard in regards to like just quality of life.

Tommy: Tired as fuck.

Josh: And so, you know, we went for a— We were walking along the beach. I was like, well, do you want to just try a little run? Let's do a kilometer. Let's just try a kilometer. And it was fucking interesting going through that process with him. I wish that I could be there every day to be that force to be out, because when it's the first step, I don't know, it just feels so easy to be like, nah, man, I can't do it anymore. And he ended up doing that. He jogged the whole K. Like we did, you know, a 7-minute kilometer, which you know, on my own I'd normally be doing 6, so 7K is like, it's fucking good, you know, uh, 7-minute K, you know, it's, it's a, it's better than a walk, it's a jog. And, um, yeah, but it was, it was interesting where he did it, he felt great doing it, and those moments that he, he was going to stop, you know, there was probably 3 moments through the whole thing.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: Um, I— some of the things that I felt were helpful were, let's just, let's just keep going to this flag. Like, it's so fucking psychological. It's all about like, it's like dealing with a baby, right? Like, say with Bodhi, well, he might wake up any minute.

Tommy: He's in the other room.

Josh: Yeah, well, it's like that radical, radical shift, right? Where you say, okay, um, I think over here, like, it's, it's, it's that sort of— what do you call, like, distraction? Yeah, it's just creating a distraction. And that's literally what it was like on that run, where I'm like, we're just going to go to this flag. And as soon as we got to that flag, I'd be like, okay, we've only got 300 metres now. 300, like, that's fuck all. You park your car 300 metres away. Let's just keep, keep running. Um, but yeah, I just, I remember when I was a, um, you know, in a footy team, it's, uh, one when I was, you know, high school.

Tommy: Nostalgia alert.

Josh: Nostalgia alert, Endeavour Hills Footy Club. And that was a fucking huge struggle because so much of it is attached to identity. So it's like, I am the fat kid. I'm not meant to really be a good runner. And we take, I think we take those physical signs. So like, you know, lack of breath and all that sort of thing as reasons why we can't do it, like, oh, like I'm not designed to be able to do it, versus it's this thing, it gets better.

Tommy: Um, Craig talks a lot about an emotional tipping point in most things, you know, weight loss especially. But it's like the emotional tipping point could be being shamed by somebody publicly, or it could be having a marriage breakdown because of many things. And so there it— there that kicks you into gear. And it's so, like, it definitely happens. Have you had one of those tipping points?

Josh: Well, I think that we've spoken on the podcast previously, we call it the Crucible moment. And it's the, it's the rock bottom. It's the, you're needing to go to rock bottom or having something extreme happen into, happen in your life to then get a new perspective. So, for a lot of people that might be You know, a real health is a huge one, right? Where it's like, I had a friend who had some health issues after she had a baby, and that was enough for her to reframe everything. Like when you nearly fucking die, yeah, all of a sudden you start to ask like, what is important in a real way? For me, nothing specific comes to mind.

Tommy: For your weight loss, I mean.

Josh: Yeah, for weight loss, I think Oh, your back, you fucked your back. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So the back, absolutely, the back was— my back was the number one thing. So it would have been actually looking at the specific moment, it was being in, I think it was like Frankston, having gone to a sports doctor, uh, after getting my MRI done, and, uh, mum waiting in the car as I tried to get into, like, trying to like move slowly to get into the car. And, um, yeah, real— like, it not being really good news in regard, you know, being told, you know, there's an 80% chance that you're gonna need surgery in 3 months, and surgery isn't guaranteed to help. So that was feeling pretty fucking— um, I was feeling really down then, and I think I was like, okay, so if it's the difference between walking and having this fucking instant gratification that is food, I'm just gonna just reduce what I ate. So, I like lost, you know, in the course of a few months, a couple of months, lost 10 kilos and then just iteratively went down, you know, it went from 110 down to 100 and then over, you know, 4 or so years went down until where I am now.

Tommy: I just saw one of my old PT clients in the supermarket.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: And I avoid him like the plague. Yeah. He's an interesting character.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: Owns a cafe around here.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: But when he used to come see me, fuck, he was so lazy. He was like, he ended up sometimes just rocking out like, oh, I don't have my gear, but I'll pay you.

Josh: Fuck.

Tommy: So I took his money because he fucking had a prime time slot and I took his money. But anyway, he's literally, I double did a double take. It wasn't even that overweight, maybe 15. Like, you can hold 15 kilos on your body and, and just be looking a certain way, you know. But it's like, it's— you don't, you don't look like you're severely obese or anything. But he would literally be 15 kilos lighter. He looks like a different dude. But I know he went through a divorce. Yeah. And I know he lost a lot of weight when— and was probably a I'd say it's one of those emotional, it's hard on you, there's many things going on, everything shifts. You should either stop eating 'cause you're stressed.

Josh: Wait, so he's lost a lot of weight?

Tommy: He's lost so much weight.

Josh: I think that maybe he got a PT that just wouldn't accept his money. But I think the other piece to this is I think that we, mind the pun, we give too much weight to our weight as well. Like, so I think what weight does is it's a sign of other things, right? So I think it's a sign of not move, it's a, what's the word? It's an outcome of multiple factors. So it's moving, like how much you're moving. How much you're eating, all of those types of things, which are all these other points where it's like, if you're— So I think that's like the interesting part too, where it's like, I actually don't think it's necessarily the weight is part of it, right? Feeling like you're lighter is a good feeling. But the other thing too is being overweight is a sign that you're not moving enough. And you're eating too much, and those two things are like an important part of happiness. So the thing is that even if you're not, um, at the weight that you want, if you can just go and move more and eat less without even thinking about that outcome, that's actually maybe where the happiness lies as well, if that makes sense. So even taking weight out of it and being like, okay, I'm not moving it, like this is a sign that I'm not moving enough.

Tommy: So I've been thinking about this question. Do you— can you be happy being obese? And obese is the technical term, you know, like it's a— obese just doesn't mean you're fat. Obese means it's according to a measurement based around things. It is what it is.

Josh: I guess I would ask, what is happiness?

Tommy: Yeah, well, I think, um, yeah, I guess it's a broad thing if you're going to break it down.

Josh: Well, so if you— I think if you actually break it down, I think it's like, okay, um, okay, I guess when it's relating to someone who is—

Tommy: who has a weight problem.

Josh: Well, so I think that that's part of it, right? If it's a— if you call it a weight problem, then you've inevitably already framed it up as a negative.

Tommy: Okay, weight is a metric And it's okay, your body's holding more fat than it needs because essentially body fat on you is energy being stored. That's all it is. It's your body conserving energy into the fat stores for potential food crisis. Yeah, but you know, it's like obviously someone who is overweight, you're seeing a result of them making some less optimal choices for their body.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: And so I guess when you say, you know, if you're not to look at it, it's like, okay, you when you were at your, your heaviest, and number doesn't matter, you were—

Josh: well, yeah, I can only talk— so my personal experience, I can't feel happy if I'm overweight because it's, it's leading to all of those other things I spoke about, which is like I'm not moving enough, I'm not doing all those sort of things. I think that from a broader perspective if we take culture out of it, if we take out cultural perception. Yeah. If you're a, um, maybe it doesn't matter as much. Like, so say for instance, if you are a, um, if you are a 70-year-old Greek man living in Greece, do you— like, I know when I travel or whatever, you'll see you know, different fucking nationalities and the older dudes and they've got a big belly and stuff like that.

Tommy: Big body.

Josh: Yes.

Tommy: That's so chilling, Grace.

Josh: They probably don't give a fuck. So like— Relax. Yeah, so I think from a happiness point of view, like if they're not applying these cultural expectations around this is how I should look or this is what it's going to mean for me to be able to, for me to fucking do my job, but the right thing, like, If you're fucking playing cards, you know, and if you're grappa, yeah, like it's a—

Tommy: Is that Italian maybe? No, I think it's—

Josh: I don't fucking know, but it's a different world. So I think that it's a loaded question 'cause I think there are a lot of people who are trying to fake it and saying, okay, I am happy.

Tommy: Yeah, I'm happy in my skin and I'm overweight and I know it.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: You know what it is? It's a fucking new idea question. It's a magazine, Who, Who Weekly.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: You'd see, can you be happy when you're overweight?

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: I could imagine that, but I thought about the other day and I thought, regardless of knowing who the person is, it's like having a car that's running poorly. Your body is the car. And if the engine is, it has fucked oil in it and it's got the wrong fuel going in and it will function like shit. And that's a human body. Anyone who is out there, regardless of happiness, is like the car when it's running optimally, because you're putting the right things in, it will be a better experience. And I think for humans and our bodies, it's like, I know I don't do it. I'm not, I don't fucking fuel my body like I should all the time. But I know when I do, I feel so much better.

Josh: What if we take that analogy and we extend it to this?

Tommy: So it's, I know you can have a go now at a metaphor.

Josh: Here we go.

Tommy: It's gonna be better than mine.

Josh: No, no, no. So taking that car analogy, Yeah, I knew I'd get you in with this. So, the idea is like, so your assumption is that the main purpose of the car is to drive and it's to go somewhere.

Tommy: That's life.

Josh: Yeah. So, for instance, well, maybe that's a function within life, but what about this? What about if your car is actually one that's for fucking like that's not about driving around and it's about like being on shows or fucking like, or having like a luxury car, which you don't drive that much, but you look at it, you can appreciate it and all that sort of thing. So, it's the difference between someone who's fucking moving around every day because they're going to their job and the Greek dude who's sitting, he's not really moving that much, he's playing his cards, it's a slower lifestyle. He doesn't need to drive fucking 100 K's, so he's not necessarily going to see the effects that it's having. It's like if you don't—

Tommy: But he will. Have you been to Greece? The fucking hills there, as soon as he has to walk from the card shop back to his house, he's had to tackle 1,000 steps.

Josh: And so I think that definitely there are moments where if you don't drive the car at all, the oil starts to fuck, everything starts to fuck up. You need to move the car, right? But you're not necessarily— you're not going to notice that in its— when it's parked. So he's not like— him sitting around, he's not necessarily going to feel it. But to your point, every time he wants to go to a fucking new car show, he's got to move. He's going to feel it in that moment. And so it's the friction. If, you know, we've spoken about friction before, but him, him having to move— if he has to move that's gonna be a friction point where it's like I'm carrying too much stuff, right? Whereas if you are, you know, if you're a car that's got all, you know, a boot full of fucking concrete and super, super heavy, will you notice it if it's parked? No. But as soon as you move, as soon as you have the friction point, you're gonna start realising it.

Tommy: Yeah. So, I mean, we all have to move though. I know it's like, so we do, we don't, I think not everyone needs a sports car in their life.

Josh: That's the thing. So 99% of cases, it's— the happiness is obviously going to be attached to your weight. Obviously, I've realised that psychologically people think differently. I know that there was, there's some studies around inflammation and depression. And so, being overweight creates inflammation, which would then potentially, what some of these new studies are saying, leads to more likely having mental health issues as well. So I think for the most, I think that using, using it as a get out of free card or saying like, um, saying that I'm fat and happy Yeah, I don't know. I think for the most, for most people, it's a prioritisation point of view. So they're, what are they actually prioritising at the moment? It's probably very fucking small. Maybe if you're an editor and your job is you're editing films and you're fucking overweight and you're sitting and you're doing all that stuff, but there's enough, like you're getting so much fulfilment as an editor and so much fulfilment doing that that you don't actually necessarily like going outside and all that sort of thing. Maybe that works there.

Tommy: Well, I mean, the, the body's allowing you to do that thing, that's the editing bit. And so that's why moving it and fueling it properly will allow you to do more of it. And I guess that's— we're simplifying it to the sh— to the nth degree, but it's like, there is no doubt that optimal treating your body and optimising it, yeah, helps you live a life that you can then be happy, you know. Because like, for me, I don't think it's like literally pushing a barbell from my chest doing a bench. Yeah, it's literally just like happy moving.

Josh: It's, it's moving around. But I think the other thing is, it's like, um, I've been thinking about fucking— you know, we're talking about fruit salads. I've been thinking about fruit. Yummy, yummy fruit salads. No, I've been thinking about the practise of fucking buying produce. I fucking rarely buy produce. Like, it's— I'm either going out to dinner—

Tommy: You changed your middle name to Uber Eats, didn't you?

Josh: Exactly.

Tommy: It's George Uber Eats Jansen.

Josh: I get 10% off on everything. No, but so that is— That's been something from the whole Queensland experience I've been thinking about, which is like, it was actually where it came from was my mate Naysan had a bag of dried mango. Right? Fucking delicious. It was from Costco. And you look at it, like, the second ingredient's sugar because they like powder it or whatever.

Tommy: And then the fruit being dried means the sugar content increases.

Josh: Yeah, it was so fucking good. I'd been eating it like, it was so delicious. But, um, it made me think, I'm like, you know what, how much more do I enjoy this versus just eating the mango? I'm like, actually not that much. Like, I fucking love the mango just as much. And I think that sometimes I think we've we've started to confuse things. So we like, we demonise fucking fruit and shit like that, whereas I reckon, I don't reckon there's that many fat cunts that are eating fruit and that's the reason that they're fat.

Tommy: You know what I mean?

Josh: No, but I think that we've created a world where that's almost like the, that's the thing. So I think that, yeah, fruit's not your problem.

Tommy: Yeah, if you're eating fucking Cabri. Yeah, 700 grammes a day.

Josh: Yeah, like Yeah, spot on.

Tommy: Yeah, it's, um, it's, it's adding more calories to your already over-the-top calorie intake, but it's like, yeah, it's like the 6 meals a day. It's actually— they say that it's not the 6 meals a day that's making it, but it's like the choices that you make when you know you have to eat 6 meals a day. You're not gonna fucking eat 6 lots of McDonald's a day.

Josh: Well, yeah, it's about structure, and, um, and this is where those keystone habits come in. So, there's The Power of Habit, a book talks about keystone habits. It's those small habits which then lead to bigger things. So, me drinking a litre of water in the morning means that I wake up, I don't go on my phone, I go get a glass of water, I then need to piss, so I'm moving more. So, all of these things, I feel fuller. So, all of these things lead to bigger things. So, keystone Um, keystone habits are a big part of it, but just finally, there's— there was another study that was done where, and Tim Ferriss talks about it in his book Four Hour Body, where there was two groups of people. Uh, one group just ate normally, did their normal thing. The other group was told to take a photo of their food every time they ate. They weighed everyone and they were like losing weight. Like the people who took photos lost weight. So that keystone habit of just taking a photo of your food was enough to be mindful because we always underestimate how much we're eating and overestimate how much movement we're doing. So if you think that you're doing, so many times I'm like, fuck, I've done 10,000 steps for sure, you're looking at 7,000. So that's a real consideration.

Tommy: There's, I mean, a habit saying new, like, form new habits is like, what, what's behind that is like you need the strategy. And a strategy could be those photos, or a strategy could be writing everything, like creating a Josh diary, which is your movement, your food, the water intake, your mindset, what you're feeling like. And yeah, that's a strategy to— to sort of deca— what is it? Departmentalize your life.

Josh: Yeah, but I think the thing is you can't have too many at once. I think we try and do too many things.

Tommy: Taking photos I think would work for a lot of people.

Josh: Yeah, but it's the other thing—

Tommy: Just don't fucking post them on Insta, all right?

Josh: Keep them to yourself. The other thing is it's like if you're wanting to start a healthy habit, actually have a physical fucking calendar where you cross it out every single day. And that process, once you get 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 days, it's like the Daily Talk Show. There's no fucking way that we're going to miss an episode in our 70, in the 70th episode, right? Or 76, because like we've fucking done it. Like we've actually, we've created this habit and it's cemented now. It's an expectation that we have for ourselves. And there's no, like we even, we can not talk for half the day, but we still know that at some fucking point that commitment's happening because we've said it and we haven't had these days where it's like, that's too hard. Um, so yeah, we've, uh, managed to riff on that for a while. It's a daily talk show, everyone.

Tommy: The most sane conversation between you and I about health and fitness.

Josh: Was that, was that a goal of yours, do you think? Did you come in?

Tommy: Yeah, only because I wanted your advice on this stuff. Yeah, because I was— I definitely feel like the conversations, as much as it's like I've been frustrated in my life with speaking to people that aren't serious about losing weight, or you know how you can be frustrated with somebody talking about their weight loss journey.

Josh: But not even just weight loss, apply it to anything.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: Apply it to business, apply it to people saying, I'm not, fuck, I've got no work. It's like, okay, how many people have you contacted today?

Tommy: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Josh: Like I can get real fucking mad about that. And so I think a level of empathy with these sorts of things. So I think restructuring, reframing things to actually be a positive, where it's like, okay, what is the positive attribute that's stopping this person doing this thing, and how can you actually use it? So if they're too— if they're overthinking it, then what is the mechanism? So for instance, the, uh, the thing around blood tests and stuff like that, like, you don't need a fucking blood test. Like, if that is going to be the thing that's going to help them, if that's going to create a crucible moment, or if that's going to make them feel, you know, it's like wearing, I find when I get a new pair of glasses, a bunch of things change, like smarter, Keystone, yeah, definitely smarter, Keystone, like it's almost, it's not Keystone habit, but it's a fucking like, it's a tipping thing that happens where it's like clothing changes naturally, fucking my weight because I'm like, When you buy glasses, they're sort of for a certain frame, you know, sort of face shape and shit like that. I just know like it's a confidence thing. It is literally like, what is your Adderall? You know, we spoke about this the other day, but it's identifying like what's the thing that's gonna give you the confidence to do it? Because it's the only thing that's stopping you. What's stopping you isn't your abilities, it's your confidence in your abilities.

Tommy: He said to me, this is my friend again, oh, you know, I was thinking maybe I'd take a photo like before. I was like, if that is what you think is gonna help you do it, So whatever you're thinking, do it because there's a chance it will work because you've thought it up, or at least you're gonna—

Josh: yeah, it's like, it's also that excuse-itis type of thing, right? Like, if that's the thing, like, I would never criticise someone who's taking a step that is the one that's moving forward. Yeah, if you need to buy the shit, like, we know that buying runners, buying fucking equipment isn't the answer. But if that's the thing that they— if that's the fucking barrier that they're giving themselves, let them, like, let them remove every single barrier.

Tommy: Yeah, exactly.

Josh: And then work it out. Like, buy the bike, but do whatever you need to do, and then have the mindfulness to say, did that actually fucking help in the end? Yeah, but it might be the thing that triggers to say, okay, like, I've got no excuses now.

Tommy: I'll tell you what, you didn't need to spend $1,800 on this audio gear, but Fuck, it sounds good.

Josh: It's great.

Tommy: It's great.

Josh: It's handy as fuck. All right, everyone, it's The Daily Talk Show. Hi@thedailytalkshow.com, or send us your physical mail, PO Box 400, Abbotsford, Victoria 3067.

Tommy: Bye.