Sending emails with cut-through

Josh: It's the Daily Talk Show, everyone.

Tommy: Yo.

Josh: 57.

Tommy: Yes.

Josh: Live from Tommy Jackett's office here in Collingwood.

Tommy: Yeah, it should sound the same, I think.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: Because we've got some nifty fucking equipment. What's going on?

Josh: I don't know, but you got a response from old mate, the email.

Tommy: Well, this is closing the loop, essentially.

Josh: Hashtag close the loop. This is about the fourth time we've done this.

Tommy: Yesterday I talked about a bloke named Michael who emailed me. Am I a weird cunt? Like, I come— bring these things to the table. Is it me that, or?

Josh: I mean, I get a lot of these emails and just ignore them. Okay. So the, you, your level of agitation for things that happen in general life is high.

Tommy: I think I'm always looking for these things.

Josh: Yeah. I'm always finding, looking for a fight. That will be your memoir. It is.

Tommy: Looking for a story.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: So Michael emailed me as one of those cold call emails. Hi Tommy, I was just wondering if a business person in the Media Coaching Institute space, you'd be interested and finding out how to leverage websites for success. Very generic first email, followed up with another one which was basically like, did you see my other email?

Josh: But the weird thing about this was that at the bottom of those emails there's a little fucking unsubscribe link, which would mean I would have subscribed. Yeah, but I've seen, I've seen this before, right? It's marketing people, they get your name from somewhere, then they put the unsubscribe, and they almost think they're doing a service because like, you don't want to receive these emails, I'm giving you the option to get rid of them.

Tommy: And so I wrote to him a bit. Not sure how he got my email, but I certainly didn't subscribe. Understand you are hustling, but in my eyes, this cold call style is a bit gross. What I'm curious about though is if this approach actually works. So that was where we left up yesterday. And that's when I sent that email. I got one back. It's interesting 'cause he's a real human. He's not a robot.

Josh: It wasn't an autoresponder. Thanks for your email, Tommy.

Tommy: I'm out of office. You missed it, mate. That was your one chance. Anyway, Michael has responded, "Hey Tommy, firstly, apologies for the intrusive email. Initially, when I received these types of emails, I was the same. Although recently, last year, I've been responding to people and finding there are some great people and products out there." At this point, do you reckon he's fucking, this is a template?

Josh: No, I don't think there would be enough people biting back.

Tommy: Okay, so you're saying I'm fucking skewer. My business is at a stage where it's ready to scale. I'm really passionate about what we do and really clear on what we target. Essentially, we are targeting great brands that are already established.

Josh: He's tricked you. He said, mate, thanks for the email, here's another sale.

Tommy: Established and ready to take that next level. I have a guy in India that does Google searches.

Josh: So can I just say, this is like the guy when you say, "How are you?" and they don't just say, "Good." They go, "Ah, mate, fucking this morning." I say, "Ah, you've misinterpreted my 'how are you.' I really just wanted you to say good and for us to move on." So he's gone, so he's somehow, you've gone from you asking, does this work, to, "Well, I've got a guy in India." Go on.

Tommy: "Yeah, thanks for asking about my childhood. It all started," he says, "I've got a guy in India who searches on my ideal clients being blogs like yours." First mistake, I don't actually have a blog, Michael. I've got a YouTube channel. You know what?

Josh: You gotta fucking sack your virtual assistant in India.

Tommy: "I then get that list and do a review, then construct and send the emails." He's really fucking broken this down. What's really interesting is the type of approach— sorry, what's really interesting, this type of approach really works. I get 80% open rate and about a 20% response rate. Out of 20%, I get 1 in 20 hate emails, 10 out of 20 not interested emails, and 5 I'll keep your details on file, and about 4 phone chats messages.

Josh: Okay, I respect him for breaking down where, where it all goes. I mean, I don't think an open open rate is that exciting, because it's like, if you've got good— yeah, it's saying you've got good quality emails.

Tommy: It's marketing speak, right? If you're not into that stuff, there's like the email marketing space that people are looking for, but the open rates—

Josh: like, you talk about it from a newsletter point of view, but like, you fucking email someone— yeah— in a, in a way that's not meant to look like an, you know, EDM or whatever. It's not meant to look like an emailer. Most people will open it. So I don't— I'm not that impressed by the open rate, but, um, the response— what did he say his response rate was?

Tommy: Um, his response rate, 20% response rate, and then I get 1 in 20 hate emails, 10 out of 10— 10 out of 20 not interested, 5 I'll keep your details on file, and 4 phone chats with their lawyers.

Josh: So what does he actually do?

Tommy: I still don't know, but he He got personal at the end here. Anyway, I'm really sorry again for the intrusive email and good luck with your blog.

Josh: He fucking doesn't care.

Tommy: He hasn't taken a second to look at what I do. P.S. I'm heading to Lorne tomorrow for a couple of days. Noticed on your Insta you were there a few days ago.

Josh: Cheers.

Tommy: All right, so he's taken the time to look I just need to write back.

Josh: You know what, you need to write back one sentence. It's not a fucking blog, full stop. But P.S., great burger breakfast place just on the— Should I do that?

Tommy: It's not—

Josh: I don't think you need to meet him with aggression. That is your default.

Tommy: Thanks, mate. Indian guy has got it wrong. I don't have a blog, but Great pizza at a place called Pizza Pizza in Lawndale.

Josh: As a character, as if I was to break down your character, you're quite— is antagonistic the right word?

Tommy: See, the thing is I don't really give a shit about people.

Josh: But this is the thing, you don't care, but think about how you come across.

Tommy: All for content.

Josh: Yeah, but you— it's almost all for content in the sense of you like to, um—

Tommy: I'm totally emotionally removed from this bloke and what he's doing. If he was like— other than like he's looking at something that anyone can access, my Instagram. @tommyjacket, cheque it out. Um, and so I don't really care there, but I still think in this day and age that email marketing does not— is, is gross. And I don't know what business— what business is that good for? Our business?

Josh: No, but I think it's— I think it's in the tone. Yeah, I think that if you, you could do that, if you took off the unsubscribe and spent an extra 5 minutes— I got an, I got an email from someone today who I'll actually write back to and get and have a meeting with her. Um, filmmaker. I won't say her name or where she's sort of come from, but this is what she said. So I reckon probably 1 in 100 emails that I get of these types actually has cut through, and I'll meet with them, and we'll deconstruct why it's good. Um, I'll bleep out the— or I'll—

Tommy: you fucked that up. Just call her Lisa. Call her Lisa.

Josh: Yeah, no, but where she's worked, I'll just make stuff up. Hey Josh, thought I'd reach you. So first of all, she sent this to hello@fullstackfilms, and she started with hello Josh, which I respect. Okay, she fucking— oh, hey Josh, bit of research there.

Tommy: Yes.

Josh: Hey Josh, thought I'd reach out to you because I'd love to work with you at Full Stack Films. I really enjoyed the colour grading and introduction in Goodbye Philippines and the storey behind Christian Hull's social media life. I also love how different all your films are, each with their own style. I love shooting documentary films too, like this one, which was shown at a film festival earlier this year. My specialties are in shooting and editing video from start to finish, getting real people and telling their storey in the most honest way possible. I also produce a range of end-to-end commercial videos as well as wedding films and photography. You know, she's currently finishing a job and as a video producer, and she's learned how to tell better storeys and narrative and structure during that time. She said, I know you're not advertising for any hires right now, but when you are, I'd love to catch up. I'm happy to travel and come to your studio in Collingwood. Lovely. To chat.

Tommy: That's nice. She's done a bit of research, knows what you do.

Josh: Yeah, just like fucking like breaking it down, saying this is like the amount of people I get where it's like, hey, Full Stack Films, attached is my CV. Or the other thing they'll do is they, they forget which storey they need to tell. They need to connect with me in some way, and so many of them will be like, hey, I'm just moving to Melbourne from the UK after spending blah blah blah. So the problem is they're putting their problem first. Most people will say, I need a job because of this, and what they're doing is they're hoping that I empathise enough, or whatever you want to call it, so that I will then give them a job. Which, a better approach is, I have this skill, or these are the types of videos that you make, I've synthesised what you do, and this is how I can help you. And this— and then thirdly, this is why I'm in the position that I'm in right now. So I'm— I've come from here, and this is why I'm going there. So it's lead with, uh, lead with contextualising the person that you're contacting so you understand them, and you, you're showing that you've done some research.

Tommy: Connection—

Josh: that's an instant connection, followed By value prop, this is the value that I'm going to bring to you. And thirdly, why. And then a final one is a non-obligatory fucking call to action, which is, hey, when you have— I know that you're not looking for people at the moment. So she's done that fucking research. The amount of people that treat it as if I've got a career section on my site and I'm asking for this, which is fine, I like getting them and fucking, you know, but 90%. I've only ever met with one other person who's now an editor, uh, that I use regularly, George. And he— his whole thing was, I like the stuff you were doing at, uh, Southern Cross Austereo when you're working at Fifteen Jewels. And, uh, he'd listen to Josh Speaking, my old podcast, listen to like the Ryan Shelton episode.

Tommy: So yeah, it's— so what do you think it is, these people that don't have that naturally or they haven't been taught that. You think it's because they haven't been taught it? I don't know if— because definitely Jules has always been, what's lead with the value? Like, ask what you can do, even bring something. Like, I've even created a teaser video and led with that. Hey, I created this piece of content, would love to see how I can help you with the skills I've got. So it's like, fuck, this person's already created something. It's like, how do you go above and beyond? I've always thought like resumes. Yeah, I can't stand out. How can you stand out really unless you've won a fucking Oscar?

Josh: And that was like the, the thing that I loved about leaving, you know, a full-time job as an employee is no longer, no longer people could put me on some sort of hierarchy of where I stood. Yeah, so I was realised I was in an organization— this is years ago before Envato and all that sort of thing— where I was like looking up above me and seeing who were in positions that were managers and senior execs. I was like, actually, I don't want that life. And the thing is that when you're a digital content producer or whatever, if someone says I'm a digital content producer for a radio station, I go, okay, your, um, your pay range is at the junior level about $55K, at the potentially $80K or so. Okay, that's where— so we straight away put them in box and we say, okay, this is what your salary is going to be. Um, and I just don't like that shit. I like being able to, uh, confuse people.

Tommy: In what way?

Josh: I like confusing them in the way where it's like they don't know where to place me. They can't put me in a box. They can't say, okay, this is— I think as soon as you can be— have a label put on you, it's like the difference between going into Target. Well, so we're looking at this beautiful— we're looking at this artwork here, right? So you You're in a— explain what sort of space we're in.

Tommy: It's an office building that's industrial of sorts.

Josh: And it's a gallery. Yeah.

Tommy: So next door is a big art gallery called Backwoods Gallery. And in my studio, there's some big walls and they're filled up with big pieces of expensive art, $10,000 a pop.

Josh: And so the thing is, how do you know that's $10,000 a pop?

Tommy: I got told.

Josh: But how do you— like, so I guess the thing is—

Tommy: I just got told and I really like them. Not that I'd pay 10 grand because I don't have spare 10K to drop on art for things that wouldn't actually fit on my wall at home.

Josh: But you'll happily use it at your office.

Tommy: Oh, fuck yeah.

Josh: But the, um, that's the thing, right? So you go to Target and you're like, okay, because I'm looking— say this, this piece here, Skull.

Tommy: It's a big animal skull.

Josh: No offence to the artist at all, but if you made it sort of 1/10 of the size, yeah, and put it in Target, I would say, okay, that was probably like $35 to $60, right? So the— and the reason is, is because fucking Target has like— they've created a system. And that's not what you buy. You're not buying this piece because there's 14 other ones that are in a stack and you're just going to pull them out. So that is— that's also part of it, is it's like when you're part of a system What systems are really good at is commoditizing things. So it's being able to say, we know how much these things cost.

Tommy: So you're saying you're very replaceable as a content producer at a radio station?

Josh: As a digital content producer, you are like the artwork at Target. Whereas if you are a freelancer and you're not, so for instance, things like putting up your rates or things like that, you don't need to put up your rates of how much you're worth. As soon as you put up your rates, people will say, okay, this is where you're at in your career. And but if you sell on value, if you say, okay, this is the, this is the type of work, this is the value that I'm going to give— it depends what you want to do. Some people, it's like, I have an A7S and I've got the— like, you'll go on some sites and says, I use the Metabones adapter, I have these lenses. And then you say, okay, they're $650 a day or whatever it is. And that's fine when you're getting started to build that up, but I think there is power in saying, you know what, how much, how much does, uh, Michael Moore, how much does Louis Theroux, how much does— I can literally not think of a director— Wes Anderson, Spike Jonze, Spike, Spike Lee, how much, how much they cost an hour?

Tommy: They would not charge an hour. It'd be project-based and it'd be fucking expensive.

Josh: And so the thing is, and I'm not saying that everyone needs to be that way, but just identifying that these things happen and you're going to put yourself in a box.

Tommy: Oh, I'm very much into— I don't know, I think you'll love it. I don't know if you love it, um, for the music side of it. Um, what's it called? Uh, fucking The Defiant Ones on Netflix. Watch it. Okay, it's all about Dr. Dre and Jimmy Iovine. Jimmy Irvine, who basically spearheaded the Beats by Dre acquisition by Apple. Yeah, so him and Dr. Dre were business partners. Jimmy is a music producer, old school Springsteen, Nine Inch Nails, like fucking Bono, U2. He produced some of their greatest albums. He's worth a fucking fortune even before he did the deal with Apple.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: Um, so it's all— it's looking into Dr. Dre and Jimmy's careers, and it looks at everything, Tupac, Ice Cube. But Jimmy said at one point he's like the ultimate hustler, like he works, he outworks everyone, and he's also very gifted.

Josh: Yeah, but he actually— I think I got an email with an unsubscribe from him. Yeah, he's fucking—

Tommy: he's, he's got a guy in India. Anyway, Jimmy was talking about how he got fired once and he thought, oh, I'm cut, I've got to go home now, and everyone's going to be thinking— he's like, pull your fucking head out of your ass. No one cares like you care.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: And so you make it, make it up. It was— I thought about that just—

Josh: no one— something you said, no one gives a fuck. I remember like that, those words stung me so hard when I was 21 years old and I was the assistant editor of a film, and there was an old dude would have been in his late 70s and I was showing him a photo of me dressed up as Batman from the weekend. I said, how old were you? I was 21. I'd been doing the 365-day project where I took a photo of myself every single day.

Tommy: Did you have a party on or you just dressed up?

Josh: No, I just had a Batman mask. So I took this photo.

Tommy: Oh, mask, not full.

Josh: No, no, no, it wasn't full. Hey, I had this vision of you. You're pretty amazing.

Tommy: Check out, Mom, Mom, look at this.

Josh: I'm Batman in costume. But I showed him this photo. I'm like, oh, John, look at this. He just turns around, looked at me really earnestly. He said, Josh, like, looking really sort of fucking exhausted.

Tommy: Hard conversation for him.

Josh: Josh, no one gives a fuck. And it's the best bit of advice because I think if you go through this world as a— when you're writing, when you're making a film, if you set the expectation that no one gives a fuck, you won't put that fucking clip for longer than it needs to be. And the other thing, you won't be married. Like, it was so many of us are married to the things we make. So we get this shot, it's like, fuck, I got this. This sunset shot that I got was like perfectly timed with this bird coming into frame and this fucking—

Tommy: You're talking about my one of the 12 Apostles with the kangaroo jumping out of frame?

Josh: Yeah, no one gives a fuck, Tommy. But no, but really we need to question, you know, are these connections that we have with it, do they translate to the audience?

Tommy: It's classic when you leave a job and you think, fuck, they won't find someone as good as me. Like, it's your ego talking.

Josh: And they always do.

Tommy: They always fill the role because that's what they need to do.

Josh: It's web guy Oscar here. What the fuck?

Tommy: What the fuck? Who was the web guy, Oscar?

Josh: Yeah, Oscar Gordon. He replaced me at Fifan Jewels.

Tommy: He was better.

Josh: He was, and he's gone to— where is he now? Is he in Banff or he's in Canada?

Tommy: He was back in Melbourne. Flying on a private jet with Sophie Monk.

Josh: Yeah, it's the way.

Tommy: All that fuck, that could have been you, Josh.

Josh: Yeah, it's more turbulence in the smaller planes, I think. But even looking at Oscar and how he approaches, he's literally doing exactly what we're saying, which is just like he— I remember having conversations with him around like, he's done the whole thing where he went to, um, Kyle and Jack, did it for money. Said, hey, I want a bunch more that. Okay, I'm out. And like being able to have that, um, fucking confidence.

Tommy: You've got to play the game. I know he's good at playing the game. Yeah, so he can take the headache and the stress of these assholes not listening to him that actually don't know as good as he does. Yeah, and, and play it. And he was—

Josh: you worked with him, didn't you?

Tommy: Yeah, yeah, I'm good mates with him. He's Jules Lund's cousin, if you don't know, and he's a super talented creative dude. You know, not amazingly technical in terms of like your approach. Different level though, like these content producer roles nowadays are like, you know, it's almost like suits the cowboy.

Josh: This is the— but this is the thing too, this is about commoditizing. So if you— if Oscar put together a showreel and put a showreel against some young gun, 20 years old, A7S, Zhiyun Crane, yeah, doing all that sort of stuff uh, the A7S kid probably would look like a more enticing opportunity. But what, uh, what's happening is with the democratisation of gear— so gear is getting really affordable— the democratisation of education in the sense of you don't have to go to school for this anymore. Well, you never fucking had to, but there's— before there was a paywall, you'd go to lynda.com or something, you'd pay a subscription But now, or I remember being on, um, there was a, there was a site in like the mid-2000s, early 2000s where I would go for Premiere Pro tutorials. It's like fucking old, you know, this is pre-YouTube. But now with YouTube, there's so much education out there. So where is the value if, if everyone's going to be able to afford a camera, if everyone's going to be able to afford the training to be able to do, you know, get the— expose the footage in the right way and make arty shots and shoot. If everyone's fucking shooting slow-mo, you can't rely on your camera shooting slow-mo as being your point of difference. So what is it? What do you, what do you think it is?

Tommy: I'm understanding it more now. Is the— like, it's your belief in your value of what you bring.

Josh: A monopod. You need a monopod.

Tommy: Yeah, you do. GorillaPod, actually, Josh. Can double as both. Yeah. Um, but truly knowing your value, so working out what that is, what you're bringing to it, because it's not your camera. No, it's not your editing software. It's everything around it. It's like, but I even find for me, it's like charging more than I ever have, but I believe in my skills and what I can bring somebody.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: And everything around it. Um, you know, it's Yeah, so value, belief in your own value and results. Like, I think that, that's where you start and then everything flows on for that quality of work, you know, result-driven.

Josh: Yeah. And I think it's also working out what does that mean to the way you communicate. So for me it means don't have a gear list on your site if you're not— if, if, if the aim of the game isn't to be the person with all the gear don't have a list of gear. If the, um, if you don't want to be doing motion graphics, don't have motion graphics on your work section of your site. It's hard to say no sometimes.

Tommy: You're looking at my website.

Josh: I don't have all that, but I'm literally giving this advice to myself too, right? Because you have to constantly— when people, you know, when you've built up a business from scratch there's this sense of say yes to everything, just fucking do it, just cash flow, cash flow, cash flow.

Tommy: And it serves a good purpose at the start when you have no fucking idea. It's like, hey, niche. Well, what the fuck's that mean? What niches are available? Or get to work and then refine. But some people don't ever refine.

Josh: And your skill set needs to be there too, right? You can't be, you will be determined by the market. So if you're not providing something that is of value, you can't charge the larger amount of money.

Tommy: Yeah, you know, like, I think you'll feel it. I think in terms of, you'll feel like you're actually pulling the wool over people's eyes if you're charging too much and you really don't think you're of value. And finding the alignment in that is, is the, is one of the keys.

Josh: So if, if sending cold emails isn't the answer How should people approach marketing and sales?

Tommy: The thing for me, I guess for my business, honest approach, honest conversations. And it's like my videos, I've been thinking about when I've had quite a few people say, hey, can you do what you did for you for me? Like the Obike stuff. And the other videos of mine that have gained attention. And I have tried to think about what that is. It doesn't mean just doing an Obike video for them. What I've summarised it in my head as what they are saying when they say, do what you did there for me, create an honest piece of content that creates connection. It's relatable to the audience that I have, or that me personally I have, and that's fun and informative. So it's like they're the elements that I think they're drawn to looking at my content. Relatable, you know, fun, bit cheeky, fucking informative, whatever.

Josh: Yeah, it's creativity, isn't it? It's like, it's the— you're not just selling. A hotel isn't selling a bed. There's always going to be cheaper beds. You're selling fucking an experience. So why would someone spend a bunch of money on a hotel? Why would you spend $600 a night versus $200 a night? It's an experience type of thing. It's like a hotel isn't selling a place to sleep, it's selling an experience that you wouldn't get in any other place. So it's the view, It's the service, it's the relaxation, it's like, it's the experience, right?

Tommy: So the, I guess the answer, it changes, but I guess it's gotta, I don't know how much that guy's email to me is in line with what he really does or who he really is, 'cause if he, I think about anyone using that tactic, if you were to think about that for yourself and if you were to get that email, not personalized, no real care. How does that sit within this landscape of marketing?

Josh: It—

Tommy: I don't think it does anymore.

Josh: Something smells nice, like vanilla. Uh, but, uh, the, the thing that I think— I think where it comes down to as well is you're judging him on his actions rather than his intentions, right? So I think that the misalignment may be in what his intention was versus what the action was or what it came out to look like. So he's thinking, if the benchmark is doing some sort of funky looking newsletter and all that sort of thing, which would be not that personal, yeah, he's like, I'm gonna treat this like a personal email. So did he say your name at the beginning? Yeah, so he said your name at the beginning. So he's gone, he's sort of half-baked, or maybe not even half-baked, he's just, he's gone half-authentic half marketing. And I guess the question I have for you is, if he didn't have the unsubscribe button, if he did, like, what would it have taken?

Tommy: Picked up that later. Yeah, I picked it up.

Josh: So what would it have taken for him to, um, for you to, to feel like it was an authentic connection?

Tommy: I think what we—

Josh: what you—

Tommy: your approach is, hey, I've seen that you started a video production company.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: Back in 2013, whatever it's like.

Josh: It doesn't take much time either. Like I could literally, like it'd be like, hey Tommy, I just watched your O-Bike video, that was hilarious. I ended up viewing all of your other YouTube videos and it's been really cute to see Bodhi appear in them. I have a kid as well, blah, blah, blah. And then you would say, mate, my business does, or what you could even say, is not even put the business stuff forward yet. It could literally, like, the longer game is just fucking saying something nice and leaving it at that.

Tommy: Yeah, I agree. The long game, it's a different approach though. So I judged him on his actions. Yeah, I know his intentions are he's probably got a business, a family, and he's trying to make ends meet. But I think if the first impression is an action that isn't that kosher.

Josh: Yeah, I think it's a bit gross. I think a bit of value— so like an example would be, uh, how would you feel about this? You know the guy came to you with the spelling mistake or whatever?

Tommy: Oh yeah, what if we never closed that loop?

Josh: No, he didn't write back, did he? Did you write to him?

Tommy: We called him. You called him and voicemail said it was me.

Josh: Calling Massachusetts was the episode. Yeah, the, um, no, but, um, if he'd said to you, yeah, 'Hey Tommy, I love what you're doing, blah blah blah. I noticed your— the speed of your site is pretty slow, which can affect search engine optimization. This is something that I look after. If you wanted me to spend 5 minutes on a Skype chat, I could talk you through how to fix it.' Fuck yeah. Yeah, you say my site's slow? Yeah, so, so that's the thing. So it's probably the difference between, say, if we look at the one where there was the spelling mistake It's sort of, it's a bit nitpicky. It wasn't really put like—

Tommy: what, what, why I brought, even brought that up in the podcast, I was intrigued as much as I was triggered. Yes, Michelle, I couldn't spell as a young kid and I had to go to reading class and I was fucking triggered by this guy saying I couldn't spell.

Josh: And so fuck you, Michelle, for bringing it up.

Tommy: I love you, Michelle. Love you, Michelle. Love everybody. Um, I was like, hi, this guy just literally emailed me telling me about a mistake I appreciate it. I changed it within 3 seconds of the email. Yeah, just said that there was a mistake. I was like, what the fuck? Yeah, why is he actually emailed that? Yeah, is it a marketing— so there is some interesting ones that I've been getting into LinkedIn. You're, you're fucking— you're 3,500 views on your video on YouTube, Check Today. I feel like that's my views too.

Josh: It's good, isn't it?

Tommy: I'm getting heaps of views on LinkedIn, some of their videos, lots of interaction and, um, engagement and people emailing.

Josh: How good is LinkedIn? It's—

Tommy: it is really good for business. It's very clear creating content that's like, uh, talking around these subjects. We should post this video or post this episode in LinkedIn.

Josh: Sure.

Tommy: Talking about marketing approaches. But that's a place you see people, I feel, making a whole range of these mistakes.

Josh: Oh yeah, I think because it is— it's the network, it's the, uh, career, or business side of dating.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: And you basically—

Tommy: it's an orgy and you know why you're at the orgy.

Josh: And, uh, but there's some people who just don't know the etiquette. Yeah. So yeah, and it's a, it's a scale thing as well, right? It's, um, the more people you have on a platform and you also have—

Tommy: there's more people. Are we still—

Josh: exactly, all still on the orgy thing. But there's a, um, The fact is there's lots of different industries, there's lots of different ways of working. Yeah, but, um, yeah, no, so tell me about— so what results have you received from LinkedIn?

Tommy: Oh, I've got to catch up with a bloke next week. He's a fellow filmmaker.

Josh: And so if we relate this to the orgy thing, he's— yeah, his message, he's courting me.

Tommy: Yeah, he's, um, coming to see my establishment.

Josh: Perfect.

Tommy: To, uh, see if he wants to Yeah, anyway, no, lots of people like— I think for the types of videos I've posted, one was about Amy's candle business, one was about my first footage from my first camera when I— and seeing the progression.

Josh: How many views has your latest video had?

Tommy: Over 4,000.

Josh: Awesome.

Tommy: The first one, 10,000.

Josh: How many comments and stuff does that—

Tommy: oh, the first one, the candle one, had like over 60 comments, I think. This one's only got 9, 10. No, No, no negative.

Josh: I think because LinkedIn, you're attaching their career and all that sort of thing to it, so people play nice.

Tommy: Super supportive. They were— they're very honest videos. So if anyone is taking a stab, it's like it's like a stab at me personally, which is cool. Like, but I think they connect because they are honest, fun, and somewhat relatable to the person. And I haven't geared them to that. Like, I haven't made them for that reason to post them on LinkedIn. Yeah, made them because They're all those things.

Josh: So LinkedIn tip of the week, you're telling me about captions. What's—

Tommy: oh, subtitles.

Josh: Subtitles. Yeah, captions.

Tommy: It's a must for videos on LinkedIn.

Josh: What sort of difference do you set? I guess it's hard to know because you don't really control—

Tommy: well, Jules, this is some on-the-ground stuff. Jules Landau made a video about Tribe, his company. One had subtitles, the other didn't. There was about a 10,000 view count higher on the one without with subtitles. Okay, so there's a, there's a massive increase, and maybe it is people at work. Yeah, on LinkedIn, not fucking turning the sound on.

Josh: Like, or it's also, I wonder how LinkedIn counts a view. If they count like 20 seconds, you might be more sort of inclined to watch a little bit more.

Tommy: But definitely, yeah. But I think before you use subtitles, create content that's honest, relatable, informative, so there's value in it. Okay, there's, there's relatability and honesty in it. That's—

Josh: it helps. Before the end of the week, let's both try and send 3 emails, 3 cold emails to people.

Tommy: I like that.

Josh: And, um, let's see if we can get a response. So I'll pick 3 potential clients that— the rule is that you haven't been in contact with them before.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: Uh, and reach out to them and let's see what we can— let's see if we use our strategies around authenticity and bringing value, what sort of a difference we can get.

Tommy: Hi, uh, Jane, I was out the front of your place last night. I see you live in Abbotsford, and I've got 2 kids, and I see you've got 2 kids through the window.

Josh: That's probably not the right approach.

Tommy: Do you want to come to the orgy?

Josh: It's the, the, the LinkedIn circle jerk. The, um, everyone, it's The Daily Talk Show. Please send us an email, hi@thedailytalkshow.com. Introduce yourself.

Tommy: But take a few of the suggestions that Josh put forward for how to do it. Yeah, actually, nah, just come in hard with a sell.

Josh: Yeah, what have you got to sell us on? And then also, um, please, uh, review us. Yes, on iTunes, in the podcast app. It's appreciated. Everyone have a great rest of your day, and we'll, uh, we'll see you tomorrow.

Tommy: Bye.