You can't say that anymore

Tommy: It's the Daily Talk Show, everyone, and it's, uh, it's an evening.

Josh: You're an asshole.

Tommy: Why am I an asshole?

Josh: Because you just fucked up my feng shui of my cord to my microphone.

Tommy: I'm sorry.

Josh: You took off the rubber band to extend it, obviously, but then just left the cord to flail around.

Tommy: You get really funny about your things, don't you? It was like you're an only child.

Josh: Nah, I was Just the only one that mattered out of the three. Now another thing, just quick bone to pick. You managed— we just shared some chocolate. This is real cute, but I just watched, and I don't usually do this. Maybe I don't, maybe, maybe I do, but I just haven't sort of noticed myself doing it. You touched every single piece of that chocolate. Like, there was maybe 16 bits. You managed to like open it up, put it into your hands, turn it with your hands, and then you like broke it by putting your fingers over all of it 3 times so you touched every piece.

Tommy: I mean, I—

Josh: Do you think about that?

Tommy: Smell my hands are clean.

Josh: I don't know how to smell your hands.

Tommy: I washed— I, to be clear, I'd actually washed my hands prior, and the reason was— sorry, I just touched your footies. Um, no, I actually washed them with soap before doing it because we were Taking one chocolate bar out of someone else's, like we had a basic, like a gift for someone. It's like a freebie, essentially. And I got hungry, so I just helped myself to their free gift.

Josh: Yeah, it's fine. They're not going to know.

Tommy: And I washed my hands beforehand because we just had meat sandwich things.

Josh: So, that's why you thought, I need to wash my hands.

Tommy: Yeah, I was like, I'm going to wash my hands, otherwise they're just going to smell like meat.

Josh: Still though, when you touch someone else, when you're touching something that you're sharing, it's like mints.

Tommy: Some people get really weird about, like, how, what, what level of germaphobe are you?

Josh: Oh, like, I still ate it and I'm not that worried about it. But I—

Tommy: Even you saying it like that, I'm not that worried about it. Not that worried about it. Are you fucking kidding me?

Josh: With my friends, I'm not. Okay, I don't worry about it, but I definitely notice it. But I have the ability to shut off once I've noticed it, to then shut off and go, doesn't fucking matter.

Tommy: My mate Cam is like a real germaphobe and he won't He can't, he wouldn't be able to handle that. Like if I was trying a drink, I'm like, oh, this is yum. Would you do that? Would you drink something out of— You would definitely drink.

Josh: Oh, I did a segment about this on radio. Milk.

Tommy: No, no dairy products.

Josh: I've got a problem with sharing milk.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: But I could share a fizzy water with you.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: If you were doing a hover.

Tommy: Anything dairy, for whatever reason, it feels like it's like bacteria inducing.

Josh: Well, it's like a swamp water.

Tommy: Foul, isn't it? I just— Feedback from yesterday from Michelle from the UK.

Josh: Hi, Michelle.

Tommy: I was talking over you, apparently.

Josh: I mean, I came up with the thought around the how you can fix that.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: Shut the fuck up. Yeah, shut the fuck up. No, I've got tape here. No.

Tommy: Introducing the new guest, the new host.

Josh: The amazing thing is that This show just gets crafted by the people listening to it a lot of the time. Yeah, we do it a lot. We're very fucking analytical about this.

Tommy: As much as it wouldn't sound like it. Yeah, analytical is probably the wrong word.

Josh: Reflective. Reflective. Reflective.

Tommy: Because we definitely, uh, we listen. I can't listen at the beginning. I used to listen to the podcasts and Bree will want to listen to it at night. Yeah, I just can't handle, like, I struggle enough with my, the internal voice in my head. I don't need to hear me through fucking Sonos at 11 PM when I'm trying to go to sleep.

Josh: Yeah, it's probably not the bedtime material for yourself. Maybe for someone else. Maybe you're listening to this in bed right now.

Tommy: Yeah, you could be in bed. You might be having like a little hot chocolate.

Josh: What are you in London? The snow out? No, Josh, I was playing into Josh's love of painting pictures.

Tommy: I do love painting pictures.

Josh: Of scenes of where people might be listening. Hey, so I've been sort of slowly being told from people today. Two people have told me that they listen to the podcast now, which is so good.

Tommy: Who?

Josh: I got a message from a dude, um, named Gideon. Giddy, he's a legend. And I think we just— I think we actually met online, um, or on email. Anyway, we caught up, catching up with him tomorrow. This is what he said, uh, where are we?

Tommy: I love this. And you've been good enough to keep it a secret. Like you haven't told me.

Josh: No, because it sort of, I've been busy today and then it's just come to my head.

Tommy: I have been too.

Josh: He said, I've got some ideas of where you could go with it. Also, I'd love to catch up for a quick coffee. Sure thing.

Tommy: So he hasn't told you how, do you think it involves me still being involved?

Josh: Josh has to go.

Tommy: It's Gideon and Tommy daily talk show.

Josh: I'll give his Insta plug, lifeofgiddy_. Anyway, he's got some cool videos. Another person. I went to Bodhi's daycare yesterday.

Tommy: Fuck off.

Josh: One of the educators. Oh, we, um, we listened to your podcast.

Tommy: They would have heard the biting.

Josh: No, they didn't hear that one. I said, which one? And I should have known this. Episode—

Tommy: the squeegee one.

Josh: Episode 7. Oh, episode 5, How Much Is Daycare?

Tommy: Oh, interesting.

Josh: And I listened back to it to see if I was—

Tommy: If you said anything. Well, man, you love those guys.

Josh: Exactly. But I didn't. And it was, yeah, it was, it was nice. But they also, she also said to me, oh, and we've seen your YouTube channel. Um, and you were saying that they were watching it in daycare, the kids. Yeah, the kids. So someone else was watching. This was another person that was watching it. Yeah. You know what video she watched?

Tommy: Which one? Oh, Me doing—

Josh: no, no, no, think back to something that would have them looking at me questionably.

Tommy: You stripper?

Josh: When my wife— when my girlfriend was at Bible college, I was—

Tommy: you're the talk of the town at daycare. Daddy Daycare 2.0.

Josh: If Bodhi's doing nudie runs, they know where he's getting it from.

Tommy: Um, I've been Listening to an audiobook, essentialism. Essentialism, I think that's what it is.

Josh: What is— because you've, you listen to stuff and you start dropping into the conversation and it even seems to me a little bit, doesn't it?

Tommy: I then start, I, I go through phases of just quoting shit that I read.

Josh: But you said today, um, you quoted— what's the word?

Tommy: Essentialism.

Josh: Essentialism. You said that And so, I'm left behind thinking about what's the description, just brief, of what essentialism is.

Tommy: Being an essentialist. Yeah. Well, I think my understanding would be it's probably a little bit of a turn sort of nearby minimalism. But essentialism is about do it like having the things, doing the things in life that are essential. So, I think that we've created for a lot of people these expectations around what we need to do, that we need to say yes to all of these things and it's about like cutting back.

Josh: Is it just a new spin on minimalism?

Tommy: It probably is, actually.

Josh: Essentialism.

Tommy: I've only just started re-listening to the audiobook because I think that you probably have noticed this in me in the last month or two. In January, I was not pushing really for work at all and I was just doing creative shit, was doing my YouTube channel and I was just sort of having a bit of sort of mind, like a mind reset, just sort of going easy. And then I sort of said to you, I'm just going to say yes to more stuff. You know, I'm going on my trip, want to save up a bit of coin and I want to just see like there's something nice about this idea of like sprinting, just absolutely fucking yourself. Before you go away on a trip. And like, we go in the end of June. I feel like I started on this journey beginning of Feb and I'm already fucked. I'm just like, I've said yes to all these things. And that's what got me onto essentialism because I'm just like, I've got 6 clients all wanting shit done today and my ability to prioritise and make sure that they're all happy. Becomes slimmer.

Josh: Well, the sprinting analogy, if you keep it consistent with that— sprinters can't continue sprinting.

Tommy: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I guess we should be looking— I guess business in a lot of ways is like a marathon.

Josh: 100%. But then there's periods of sprints, so it's like you go hard but you're still grinding after that, but it's just nowhere near to the extreme.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: Yeah, it's interesting. I think it's pressure though. You work well under pressure.

Tommy: Yeah, I'm gonna look back at this. Like, I look back and the thing is what is happening is I'm enjoying my fucking weekend. Like, I haven't had a proper weekend only in a few— Like, I sound like such a little complaining little twat, don't I? I've literally like only worked for like a month and a half of like real hard. And I'm fucked. Where, um, but I'm like, the thing that's happening is I'm starting to appreciate shit more. So, when normally my weekdays and weekends would just sort of merge, right? It was that whole like Gary Vaynerchuk mentality, which is like, don't live for the weekends. Like, you know, it's just like another day, all that sort of shit. Whereas, um, I'm really like, it feels like I need those weekends just as a reset. And I feel like I empathise more with Bree, my girlfriend now, because for the longest time she would get home from work and I'd be like wired and I'd say, oh, let's, let's watch these tutorials. You want to get better at your social media stuff? Let's watch all these things. And she's like, I just want to watch Say Yes to the Dress.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: And it's because she would be work, like really being intense during the day. Whereas I'm sort of, I was always playing this sort of constant, just like, ah, just like constant, but not really like maxing out my brain power.

Josh: I do the same. I constantly work, but I don't feel like I constantly work for me. And I have those periods of time where I'm going hard, but then I think you actually have no option a lot of the time in the early days of your business to be getting everything done. Like, if you— I was— it's like— but then there's patterns that you go through. Like, you could collate all your emails and send it back all in one go, or if there is an email that comes through, just send a few lines back and get it done and move on. Because it is— it's a game of— it's a numbers game. Emails, like clients, you have to get through and get it done, but then you don't want to jeopardise the quality and stuff.

Tommy: Well, what's your— What do you think about email etiquette? Because I got this Offscreen magazine that I'm a big fan of that my friend Kai is the editor for. They do this thing which is called like—

Josh: Josh plugging one of his mates' businesses again.

Tommy: He doesn't need any help, he's great. No, they have something called Offscreen Dispatch, and I saw in their most recent email, they have this thing called the email charter. The email charter, I've seen a few of these in my life. It sounds like I'm fucking old or something, but it's like this website which gives you an email charter. So it's like, we're drowning in email and the many hours we spend on it are generating even more work for our friends and colleagues. We can reverse this spiral only by a mutual agreement, hence this email charter. And what they've basically done is they've put together these 10 rules for email. So I remember seeing something similar. I think it used to be called like 11words.com or some shit, or 11— I can't remember the exact URL, But basically you would put it in your email signature and when people would click on it, it would say, hi, I'm taking part in the 11 Words Challenge, which is I only send emails that are 11 words or less.

Josh: You know the problem with that? I'd spend half the fucking time working out how to communicate what I want. Twitter's hard enough and they've given you more characters.

Tommy: And you know, the funny thing is there's this quote which is, um, it goes— I can't remember, I'm sure it's a famous person that said it, but it's like "Sorry for the long letter. I didn't have time to write a short one." Which is like, you know, you think about edits and things like that. The time is actually in the refining. You can create like a long fucking edit, but to make something good that's actually worthwhile, that's like taking the time. You can use that one. So, yeah, all these things, right? Respect. Number 1, respect recipient's time. Short, number 2, short or slow is not rude. 3, celebrate clarity. I wonder what they mean by celebrate clarity. Let's read this.

Josh: Well, I think it's dot points. I love getting stuff in dot points.

Tommy: But how do you celebrate it?

Josh: Do you say, love, thanks for sending, thanks for making this really easy.

Tommy: Let's see what they're actually saying. Start with a subject line that clearly labels the topic and maybe includes a status category Info, action, time-sensitive, low priority. Use crisp, muddle-free sentences. If the email has to be longer than 5 sentences, make sure the first provides the basic reason for writing. Avoid strange fonts and colours. Do you know what's fucking a great tip which I have really been using? I don't know where I heard it from, but it was like Put the answer first. Answer, then why. Not why, then answer. Example, if you're— say if we've got a shoot on and I'm asking your availability, I'm like, hey man, can you do this shoot on Thursday? What most people would do is like, oh man, I've got this thing on, that thing on, I could make it. No, fuck that off and just say, no, I'm not available. And then go into the why. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Always answer, then why, and then context.

Josh: Yeah, so you don't want to be filtering through trying to work out the Da Vinci Code from a long email. Yeah, that's true. But then you don't want to be a fucking robot. No, like the hard thing is with all this stuff, business relationship building is about being authentic. Yeah. And if it pulls away too far from that authenticity in the communication, it's like you fail.

Tommy: I use exclamation marks, smiles a lot, and I, yeah, I think those things are important. I try and reduce the amount of exclamation mark, like if I'm doing like, hey Tommy, exclamation mark, and then like the next one might be—

Josh: I reckon I've learnt how to write by doing emails, as in after school, like more than I did at school. I learned how to craft sentences and use the right grammar and punctuation marks and—

Tommy: Absolutely. Crazy. Yeah, it's so important. And I think, yeah, it's one of those areas where if you do it right, you can be really powerful as a communicator. And it's, I think, one of my few strengths is email. Like, I can send Like, I feel like when I'm working with friends on things, they're always like, hey, can you craft this thing or that thing?

Josh: Yeah, you're good with words. Tell me about the fucking— you don't have it anymore, the email thing, so it tells you the notification if they—

Tommy: Oh yeah, actually, that was making me realise how much I'm— how glad I am that I don't have that anymore. What? So, what was it? I had— it was called Mixmax. There's a few other services that would do the same. It will give me notification anytime someone opened my emails? And I thought that—

Josh: sorry but it also gives you like notifications of whether somebody has clicked your social media little icons on YouTube! Like Simpsons issues?! What did do to ya!?

Tommy: You went through them fucking click tomorrow got so many messages back from people...

Josh: Trolled yo soo hard I just pressed Ctrl then go "click-click" It was very uh-oh for him yeah haha low-level troll. Yeah, but it sent an email to you, so you got like—

Tommy: No, I didn't get an email. It's almost like a feed. It's like, imagine like the ticker on the news, ticker on the side of Facebook, how it just says so-and-so. Like, it's literally like that. But the thing that it would do is I'd get notifications when someone was opening an email. So not only that, but I would get notified, I would get told what location they're in too. So I'd be able to see, oh, this client's actually opening it from overseas, or The other thing that it was—

Josh: the one bad example you give that probably happened once.

Tommy: No, it happened a bit. I remember like, um, the thing that it was handy for, and this is why I probably stopped using it, because I got too reactive. Yeah, because I was literally like, I'd be looking at my email and then I would see someone like open up a quote again and then I'd be like, oh, fuck, I should follow up. That was like 2 weeks ago and they never wrote back. So I'd like write to them and they would send me an email and they'd be like, oh, um, say, mate, I can't look at no— you did the exact same. You saw my eyes.

Josh: I looked at what you were looking at.

Tommy: Yeah, I've got something.

Josh: Josh got a fucking notification coming. Go on.

Tommy: The— yeah, so I, um, this is what happens, mate.

Josh: You, you— a quote opened and you emailed them straight back.

Tommy: Yeah, yeah. And the thing is they're like, oh Josh, We're literally just thinking about this. And they just think that we're like really connected. Little do they know that I'm fucking tracking their every move. So, it was a little bit, I felt a bit weird. And so, initially I was like real pro this, remember? I was like, 'cause you could do things, you could use the service to be able to book calendar stuff. So, I could say, hey man, these are the times I'm available and you could click one and book it into my calendar. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Which was cool. But the thing that I think it's just a dangerous path trying to track shit, Insta stories.

Josh: What do you talk— Ah, what did I say to you yesterday? Is that what you said?

Tommy: Yeah, you said that because I used to be a big one and I feel like I've really—

Josh: Well, just an explanation from the outside. Josh is very onto things. For instance, if I wasn't answering my call but looked at his Insta story, he's the kind of guy that was looking through. His Insta storeys and seeing who was watching them. Like, so he's the opposite. Do you look through your Instagram like activity? So, what other people are liking?

Tommy: Yeah. Yeah.

Josh: I couldn't tell you the last time I did that.

Tommy: Oh, I don't. It depends what sort of mood I'm in.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: But no, I don't do it like during this time. This is the funny thing. This is what I'm realising. This busyness that I'm feeling, there's all of these habits that I've formed through like being quite idle. Like, idleness creates— you can get into these little head fucks where you start focusing on shit that just doesn't matter. And that has actually gone. I'm spending way less time— like, I'm not even looking at Instagram as much. Like, so many times I feel like in the last month or so—

Josh: The reality is successful people don't have the time.

Tommy: No.

Josh: Because they're working on the shit that they're creating.

Tommy: Absolutely. I think that, like, consuming sort of mindset can really sort of fuck you.

Josh: Let's move away from that stuff.

Tommy: Can I just quickly say that I did— So, just to, you know, clear up the loose— Close the loop. Close the loop. Thank you. Close the loop is our segment.

Josh: Close the loop.

Tommy: With the Insta story, I actually posted an Insta storey this morning and saw my mate Jack liked it. I called him. I was like, mate, he answered straight away because I knew he was on his phone. I was like, thanks for the, uh, thanks for the view. What did he say? It was fucking great. He's like, oh yeah, he's like, he laughed, he thought it was funny. But then I said, I'm— I said, now you're gonna see on your Insta storey that I viewed your first one, but then I dropped off. Don't think that— don't think it's that I don't like the content, I just— mate, I need to fix those chairs, don't I? Um, Yeah, it was because I had bad phone reception where I was.

Josh: Yeah, and he was already thinking that.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: Fuck, man, I don't look into anything, but maybe— And so what I said to you actually today or yesterday, you scare me into being more conscious about it.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: Because of the— Because me knowing someone like, for me, it's like I'm the only one exists, you know, you're in your own world. You really think that that's how most people are. I remember a lot of the time, but then I see you and you're like, I'm like, fuck, that is the opposite. So I gotta lift my game.

Tommy: I remember, uh, a client, like, I was doing personal stuff, like doing personal social media posts, and I told a client a while ago, uh, that I, uh, couldn't finish their thing or whatever it was, and they had me on social media and they actually said, well, if you've got time to be doing this tech, they wrote it on the post or no, no, no, no, they fucking emailed me. They picked me up on it. I was like, how can like, and that's what like this podcast, I've made a priority. I've done this. We've done this every fucking day. Haven't missed it.

Josh: Every Wednesday. We went and celebrated 38.

Tommy: Yeah. Episode 38. Actually, I don't think we even said the day or date.

Josh: No, we got straight into it. You pissed me off with your Messiness.

Tommy: Yeah, but the, um, I couldn't believe it. I was like, I felt like a— it just felt gross. I'm like, are you fucking kidding? Like, let me prioritise my own shit.

Josh: Yeah, you're right.

Tommy: But don't you agree? Like, I feel like, um, like, what is the protocol? Would you get fucking— I can understand how someone could get annoyed though. If I'd said to you, like, when fuckers say, oh, I'm too busy for shit, and then you just see them on Instagram being dumb fucks, do you get annoyed?

Josh: It's— if it was outside of business hours, I would have that filter and just be like, pisses me off. But it's fucking 5 PM. It's after 5 PM, 6 PM. It's like people have lives.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: And I think you— I've got a busy life in terms of outside of my own shit at work and everyone else. It's like most people have that, right? You got your stuff doing Dinner with Bri or going to your mum's or whatever.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: I'm looking after Bodhi, you know.

Tommy: And that family thing, I think, changes it, right? Like I've noticed that I had one client that she was like, oh, look, I've got two sick kids at the moment. We're not going to be able to get this feedback. I like really respected it and I was sort of like, you know what? Like I should be prioritising like that too. And I think what I struggle with is It's the justification. So, having a kid, like it's almost like it's sort of a mic drop. It's a like, mate, like, because you respect it straight away. Yeah. But me being a fucking 20-something idiot being like, guys, I can't, I'm not going to be able to get this work done because I'm tired. I want to hang out with me girlfriend. It's a bit of a harder sell.

Josh: I heard a mother who had double parked and she'd come up, she came up to the office where I am and gone and picked up some tickets from my mate's office.

Tommy: What were they? What sort of tickets?

Josh: Oh, they do ticket printing.

Tommy: Oh, of course.

Josh: Unitix.com.au.

Tommy: Your first plug.

Josh: Yeah, plug my mate.

Tommy: James works there, doesn't he?

Josh: He's the boss.

Tommy: Yeah, James.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: Anyway.

Josh: I heard the mother double parked, and then this woman who she'd double parked over the driveway of, and she wanted to get a car in, had came stormed up, whose car is that? What? Like, she was— oh God, remember, um, what's that movie, Matilda? That's a really bad movie reference.

Tommy: Yeah, I don't even know.

Josh: Matilda, if you've watched it, it's like the headmaster was like, this woman was really fucking grumpy and mean. Um, anyway, it was like her and she was, she had a bee in her bonnet. Whose car is it? Anyway, this woman said, oh, she came out and said, oh, I'm so sorry. Um, you know, I'm a mother and I just had to, but she used the mother thing and I thought, fucking.

Tommy: And did it work?

Josh: I mean, this woman was fired up.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: And I think she was just reactive saying that I'm a mother is like this go-to thing, meaning I've got a lot on. I just needed to fucking do this. Please.

Tommy: I've, I remember I've had moments where it's like you want to say, like, there's obvious, these obvious things that would, where people have no empathy for what other people are going through. But then, you know, when you have moments where it's like you have no excuse, but if they're like, just think if I had an excuse, like, I think to myself, I'm like, what if I had cancer right now? You know, like that sort of where it's like, obviously so fucking dumb because I'm fine.

Josh: I know.

Tommy: It's like maybe someone close to me died. And they like, they haven't. I remember like—

Josh: You want to fucking stump them with some goss.

Tommy: Oh, yeah, exactly. They've literally got nothing. It's like, yeah, my pa died. I don't have to say that it was 6 years ago. But I remember, I feel like maybe this is a bit of an emotional maturity thing. I remember being a kid and like people, you know, relatives or stuff like that dying. It's a little bit dark. And I remember thinking like, oh, this sort of, it gave me a bit of leeway of like being like, just like not being late to class. I get it.

Josh: I know what you mean.

Tommy: Did you ever, do you think like, go real deep? Do you think that you've ever had those moments where it's like, you know what, it's almost like a bit of a pity party, isn't it? It's like saying like, you know what, I, I'm trying to get this fly. Mozzie. Yeah, like, give me your example.

Josh: I have 100% used the pity party thing. Yeah, but I can't remember a specific example, but I feel like it's easy to dwell in, right? Yeah, you just sort of bask in it. It's almost like creates this energy around and it allows you to fuck up. Yeah, like you think about like, I've done it with, I've done it with film shoots where I feel like, fuck, I hope something comes up. That I have to cancel on that shit.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: And it's such a bad mindset because it's me just being weak.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: In my head, and I haven't just bitten the bullet and done what I need to do. And I 100% have thought, please, if only Bodhi gets gastro.

Tommy: I haven't thought that.

Josh: I stay away from thinking anything.

Tommy: Yeah, of course. No, you want it to be— did you say fucking evil?

Josh: Fucking evil.

Tommy: I'm not evil, to be clear. No, it's it, but it's you, you need to really go inside to think about that because I think there's probably a lot of people that have had those moments. But I, um, just quickly before we wrap up, I do, uh, remember a storey where there was a guy where something happened to him a few years ago and, uh, HR sort of supported him through it. They didn't really was sort of a big, big deal, all that sort of thing. He didn't want it to go public. And, um, then he sort of had a moment, you know, 4 years later where he's like, actually, I want to tell everyone now and all sort of thing. And it's a really weird position because I think from an HR point of view, if you're going to do something like that, you sort of need to— you're almost playing in this pity party for whatever you want to call it, like this emotional sort of situation for years and years and years. And that can almost— I don't know, it's, um, I don't know where I'm going with it.

Josh: I wasn't sure either. Sorry, I wasn't sure where you're going with it either. I had some stuff I wanted to talk about. What time is it? How much?

Tommy: We've got 1 minute. We've got 1 minute. I've really gone on a low, haven't I? Should we try 1 minute of real high energy?

Josh: Now, this story, that it wasn't high energy It's just something that pissed me off.

Tommy: Go. Tommy loses a— oh, you know what makes me really mad?

Josh: All right, no, what we're going to finish with is a storey that we got sent from Josh's childhood from another person at his school. So yesterday I reckon it was fake.

Tommy: Okay, yeah, sure.

Josh: It was someone who just made up something.

Tommy: And we've got another one, which was bizarre.

Josh: Like, how, how weird and cool at the same time is someone who writes through to our podcast telling us a storey that was not true but had some detail I think it had some stuff which was like the farting, the arm farting thing, which you did after the show, which is fucking brilliant.

Tommy: But what's the email? Go, who was it from?

Josh: Who do you reckon that last one was from? Like, legitimately?

Tommy: No fucking idea. I can't actually tell if that was a real person's name that I knew or not. Because obviously there was a lot of like real international sort of school kids from everywhere. So, you could have a real fucking weird name and you wouldn't know.

Josh: I'm going to give this girl a shout out because she hasn't said to not put her name in it.

Tommy: Yeah, go.

Josh: Jodie Scanlan.

Tommy: Okay, Jodie. I know Jodie.

Josh: Jodie, thanks for listening.

Tommy: You know, very quick story.

Josh: It's not never a quick storey with you.

Tommy: It's a fucking quick story. Remember that 3SER, the radio station?

Josh: No.

Tommy: Okay. The radio station that my mum yelled at the manager because he was rude to me. Remember that?

Josh: On one of the episodes, find it.

Tommy: Jodie's brother had his own show on 3SER.. And I remember he did a segment within his radio show where he interviewed the cast of the Glen Eagles production. And I remember I was on the side of the shed where the performance was, and he had his microphone and he was talking to me. And I couldn't— I wasn't smart enough to connect whether like Is this going live? Right? It was cool. He was just like recording onto like a Sony tape recorder.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: Yeah. But it was just that weird moment where it's like your breathing goes a bit funny and you're like, okay, I'm about to go on air. He's like, okay, we're going to go on. All right. 3, 2. And he goes into it. I just like, I elevated it so much. So anyway, that was Jodie's brother.

Josh: I feel like it was not a short story.

Tommy: I'm sorry. Jodie was in a lot of drama stuff. Cool.

Josh: I experienced a lot of those people when I was living in Shepparton doing radio, and they legit thought I had my phone out and I was going to go live. I was holding my phone recorder up and they'd do the same thing. It's interesting that I've finally met someone and become friends with them that do that.

Tommy: Anyway, Jodie, uh, thanks Jodie for writing in.

Josh: Jodie said, hi guys, been listening to your podcast on my commute to work, and recently after seeing Josh's post about it on Instagram, um, thought I'd give you a shot. I thought I'd give it a shot. Something different, and the train rides are boring.

Tommy: You're trying to read again. Yeah, anyway, this is good.

Josh: Anyway, so she's just like, so yeah, Josh was in the year below me at high school, correct? Um, I had a lot of mutual friends with his brother Jake. Yeah, what's up Jake? It's been interesting to hear and relate to Josh's storeys about certain teachers, people in the Endeavour Hills area where I also grew up. Krispy Kreme shout out there, episode 40.

Tommy: Nariwaran is Krispy Kreme.

Josh: RIP Mr. Don. We used to ask him about the tree, the trees in Sri Lanka, and he would spend the whole science class speaking so passionately about them. And we didn't have— didn't end up having to do any work.

Tommy: He was so like, I don't think he was ever my teacher. It was always extracurricular stuff. I feel like last time I said he was Indian, so I'm glad that there was— I'm guessing he was Sri Lankan.

Josh: It goes on. Anyway, one thing that I can thank Josh for is whenever I hear the song Apologise by Timberland.

Tommy: Too late to apologise.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: Oh, I know where she's going with this. Go on.

Josh: I always think of the COVID Josh did called—

Tommy: This is controversial.

Josh: To Wear a Tie. I then proceeded to have Josh's version stuck in my head, which is actually a bit politically incorrect these days.

Tommy: Okay. So, you want us to put a caveat around the story? I had a YouTube channel. Back in 2005, 2006. And, um, yeah, would make videos. And you know how we're talking about the other day where you would say words or you'd say things or you'd describe people as stuff and you just never would fucking do it nowadays, right? And one of them was just the use of the word gay, you know, oh, this is gay, that's gay, oh, you're being gay.

Josh: As a kid, you never really connected it. Yeah, you weren't even— it wasn't even about someone who was homosexual. Yeah, it was like And that's the thing with kids, right? They, they're sponges and they hear people using these terms and they go and repeat them.

Tommy: And so anyway, I created a song which was— I had a music video and it's on a private YouTube channel. I took it down because I just thought it was— it had over 2,500 views, but I changed the words "it's too late to apologize" to "it's too gay to wear a tie." And so it's got my So the words go: I'm standing in my room thinking what to wear. I got my shirt, got my tie, and I've even straightened my hair.

Josh: It's all true.

Tommy: You want me to get dressed up, but I thought that I was done. But wait, yeah, something was missing, and I was about to find out. My mum said, Josh, why aren't you wearing a tie? Because it's too gay to wear a tie. It's too gay.

Josh: It's so bad.

Tommy: Come on, Josh, now ties are gay. What about this one? Yeah, that one's gay. It's, it's so offensive. So fucking offensive.

Josh: I want to see this video.

Tommy: Yeah, I can.

Josh: Have you got it somewhere?

Tommy: Yeah, I don't like, yeah, I don't want to put it up. I'll show it to you. But yeah, so Jodie, that is correct. And now, fuck, isn't it funny that when you, these things that you make get really cemented into your head? Like the fact that I can remember it.

Josh: It's probably because you realise that it wasn't that kosher. It's like she says, why I get Josh's cover stuck in my head, I couldn't tell you, but it's bloody annoying. Same thinking. Same thing happens these days when my boyfriend and I are heading to an event and he asks me, do you think I should wear a tie? And I have to stop myself from responding with, no, it's too gay to wear a tie. It's a real cut-through.

Tommy: It's a real cut-through. The thing was that within YouTube, okay, first of all, let's just caveat, you cannot use the word gay. Do you know what? I had a mate. I couldn't fucking believe it. He lives in the suburbs.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: So maybe this part. He did a post with him and his best mate, him, his arm around him. And this guy's the nicest guy. Yeah. And his hashtag was #nohomo.

Josh: Do you know where that comes from? It's like a college saying or like a, from the States.

Tommy: But you can't say, but you can't say no homo because it's what it's saying is it's like, that there's something like, I just think you can't fucking say it.

Josh: It was legit heaps of people saying that.

Tommy: I know, I remember saying it.

Josh: It's amazing how quickly it has turned. Like it's quickly changed. Well, can we keep going?

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: So I just wanted to, this actually leads into, um, something I want to talk about. Chris Lilley.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: So Chris Lilley, uh, how would you explain, he's an Australian comedian that's created some like iconic shows within Australian comedy. Like, I remember when I was in London in 2011. Was he—

Tommy: is he a satiric— a satirist? Yeah, he's not. He's just like— he's a, he's a, uh, fuck, um, social— I can commentate.

Josh: Yeah, but he also does a lot of impersonations and, um, we could be here to cultures and, and, and, you know, sort of— it'd be like if people are impersonating Bogan all the time. He does a lot of that and does like, um real character, um, acting. Anyway, when I was in London, he— there was a bus that went past and he was on it.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: And it was Summer Heights High, or—

Tommy: Oh, cool.

Josh: And I was like, fuck, man, that's amazing. It's over here and, you know, it feels big in London.

Tommy: And, um, so relatable as I— like, as a kid being in a, like, a povo school which had all of the character, every single character, you're like You could pick them out in the school. So good.

Josh: Well, I think that's what comedians do, right?

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: They highlight to a huge degree these characters.

Tommy: Observational.

Josh: Yeah. Whether they're, you know, making it 60% more.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: You know, that's another thing. Anyway, Beat magazine. Do you know Beat magazine?

Tommy: Yeah, I've heard of it. Yeah.

Josh: They're just like got a Facebook page now, I'm pretty sure. I don't know if they do the magazine anymore. There's probably no money in the magazine.

Tommy: Bit sad, isn't it? What is this? Oh, you've got a Facebook page.

Josh: I used to look at Beat magazine as a kid. I got in there from going to clubs and you get a photo and then it'd be in Beat magazine.

Tommy: I was more of a K-Zone kid. Okay.

Josh: Dear Chris Lilley. This is a post they put up. They put up a post that was a link off to their website. It was an article and it was called, Why We Don't Need Another Chris Lilley TV Show. And the status was, Dear Chris Lilley, 'Stop. Just stop. Yours sincerely, all of Australia.' These hipster fucks, aren't they? It fucking pissed me off, the 'all of Australia' bit.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: I was like, don't fucking speak for me.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: Well, I like Chris Lilley.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: Regardless of looking into what has been said around some of these characters.

Tommy: Fox does this. I feel like this is a real like hipster fuck sort of thing where they like, people love shit like throwing shit at things.

Josh: 100%. And so like Chris Lilley has done some characters where he's had blackface on, essentially.

Tommy: It sounds bad when you say it, but that's how they paint it, right?

Josh: And that's how the media does it. And I don't want to look into, in this discussion with you and I, about whether that's okay.

Tommy: Are you a racist?

Josh: I'm fucking not a racist.

Tommy: Okay, great. Um, you're very quick. International Women's Day, everyone. Happy.

Josh: Mate, I'm fucking telling a story, you asshole.

Tommy: I—

Josh: so Chris— so my point is not looking into the, the whether it's racist or not. The point is these are— so Campton and I, my mate, The Office, yeah, we were talking about mates with James, we're talking about whether or not these news outlets, yeah, write that article and put that headline there because they know, like, maybe the person who wrote it didn't— it doesn't actually have the view that they think— don't think Chris Lilley should have another show, right?

Tommy: Sure.

Josh: But they know that that status— yeah, and I can read you some of the comments. Let me just read you one. Think on your own, Beat magazine. Not a good thing to take a swipe at people with talent. Maybe target rubbish shows like Googlebox. I'm a fuckwit. I'm a celebrity.

Tommy: I love Googlebox, by the way. This guy's a fuckwit too.

Josh: And Married at First Sight. And so the thinking is, did that— does, does Beat magazine know that this is just like fully triggering for people and they don't don't give a shit and they just know it will get likes, it will get comments.

Tommy: Well, it's also taking shit out of context, right? Like cultural context. Would Chris Lilley do Summer Heights High in 2018? No.

Josh: Yeah. But he wouldn't look the same.

Tommy: Yeah, it wouldn't look the same, right? So, I think that's even like listening to an interview with Andrew Denton, fucking a guy that I respect and that has You know, I think has a really good gauge on things. And he was talking about the first radio stunt he ever did where he went up to women and gave— said that he would give them cash if they could take their bra off.

Josh: So inappropriate.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: In 2018.

Tommy: And so, that's Andrew Denton, the guy from Enough Rope, someone who is extremely respected. Yeah. So, I think—

Josh: So, I did think on the way this morning, because I wanted to bring this up today and I was like, I heard something Jordan Peterson said, who's a psychologist.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: He said, joke, it's like the card, the Joker.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: In the deck of cards. It's like the Joker character over the years, like, sorry, hundreds of years ago, that Joker character was, you know, the person that would come in and disrupt and make the noise. And point the finger and prod people and get them fucking riled up, right? Yeah. And he relates comedians in today's age as the Joker archetypes, if that's the word, if that's the right word. And it's so true because you go, you look at Chris Lilley, he did a show where he painted himself black, and whether he does it now or, you know, does it moving forward, it's like these people may be the ones that fucking create this, I guess, hype or this fucking hyper-awareness around these topics, right? Yeah, that essentially are the, the ones who create the change. Not saying he went into it like that, but these people are the ones that are pushing the fucking buttons of people to get them thinking and then having conversations around this stuff.

Tommy: But also think about shows like, uh, like films like Wogboy Or even Fat Pizza. It's like there's so many examples where you'd probably, yeah, you'd probably look at it questionable, in a questionable light now. But, yeah, I don't know, like there's also, it's very difficult. I don't feel like I'm in a good place to be able to understand. Not that much offends me. And so, I think that dark humour. Is really fucking fun. Like one, I love that. I'm trying to remember what it was called. It's got lion in the title. It was like a film, a dark comedy that I saw at MIF probably like 6 years ago, 7 years ago, where it's about these terrorists and they can't fucking— They're just like, they're trying to like blow up somewhere.

Josh: Oh, you told me about this.

Tommy: And they're really struggling. They just keep fucking up the logistics and stuff. It's just so funny. But, um, no, I think, look, yeah, I don't know. I feel like I, um, don't want to engage with a lot of stuff.

Josh: Well, it depends on what you're engaging with, right? It's like, that's why I said I don't want to look into whether he's a racist or not, or whether he's like— you, I think you hit the nail on the head. Would he do that show in 2018? Yeah, probably not. He'd probably go, I'm not going to do that.

Tommy: It's also a little bit like, we need to look at these media outlets and say, okay, well, why are they, why are they doing this stuff? What's the end goal?

Josh: But I mean, the end goal is fucking clicks to a website because they need to make money. Yeah, they need ad rev.

Tommy: And the thing is, and that, and who's paying for that ad rev too, right? It's all like, yeah, big corporations, companies.

Josh: It's, we all contribute to it, right? Yeah, we're, we're helping companies create the content that are on these platforms essentially. So I mean, it's everyone, and we're clicking onto it, everyone's clicking onto this stuff. It's like we are feeding the beast and it's— I worry about comedians like not being able to, you know, point out things. Yeah. In a way that—

Tommy: Expression and stuff like that. But, you know, the funny thing is that I think I used to maybe— the thing I liked in comedy or what I used to like, I would love like comedians who just slam into people.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: I think that— I feel like that's changed over the years. Maybe. I think that like the style, like clever shit that doesn't do that. Like comedy is really powerful when you can do it without having to purposefully offend.

Josh: I think it's like a bit, bit of a stretch, but like motivational speakers that resonate with you at a certain time of your life.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: And it's like everyone, they're all saying the same thing, but it's the person, the way they're delivering their message, the message that's resonating. And I think it's like you've grown up, and so your, your comedy, you know, that you're digesting is a lot different now because of your intelligence or your life experience, you know.

Tommy: I think that, uh, if we tie it back into, you know, International Women's Day and things like that, it's like if you watch—

Josh: you mean when I cut you off to tell you to fucking let me tell my story?

Tommy: That's fair, that's fair. The, uh, no, uh, you watch movies and you watch some of the shit that, um that we've allowed in cinema in regards to how women are treated, it's pretty fucking poor.

Josh: Neigh— uh, Bad Neighbours. You don't watch movies. Bad Neighbours 1, Seth Rogen.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: Zac Efron. Zac Efron's like a jock at a fucking—

Tommy: I think I saw Bad Neighbours.

Josh: Has it? Yeah, it's—

Tommy: I saw Seth Rogen having sex and I remember thinking, that's what I would look like. It's just horrendous. It was just so—

Josh: yeah, so Seth Rogen's like the real straight lads do Dude living next door in this house and fucking have these nightmare neighbors. Anyway, Bad Neighbors 2 is Zac Efron is now like an older guy who's like struggling to find his way after college and all his mates are growing up. And then he starts helping these women who want to create like a sorority, I think it's called, sorority. It's basically like the guy's version. —The girl version.—The girl version of the, of that guy party house. Anyway, and they're next to Seth Rogen again, so he helps them. But then in one of the scenes, they're like, you know, back in my day we had pimps and hoes parties. And the girls were like, that's fucking, that's disgusting. That's totally unacceptable. And in the moment, like, it's really funny. Zac Efron's like, has this moment where he realises how unacceptable it was to have a pimps and hoes party. But it was such a funny moment that I was like, so fucking true. Yeah. You cannot have a pimps and a, like a hoes prostitutes party. Yeah. Because all the girls dress up like that and the guys, like, it's fucking gross.

Tommy: Yeah. It's pretty crazy. It's amazing. You would have gone like a few years, but that's the only parties you would have gone to.

Josh: I went to a few pimps and hoes.

Tommy: No, actually don't know if I was. It's okay, I think I haven't been to any parties. No, it's interesting, times are changing and it's, it's a, it's positive. Yeah, I think it's all, um, you know, moving towards, uh, you know, and, and I think that some of these ridiculous things where they go a little bit too far can sort of irk you a little bit, but the, the longer, the longer strategy around giving people a fair go and making them feel comfortable in their own fucking world. I think I can't relate to feeling that way. And it's not until it's been articulated where I'm like, oh, man, that would be tough. So, that's fine. Go on, mate. Happy Thursday. Is it Thursday?

Josh: Yeah, it feels like Friday. We're doing this one late.

Tommy: It feels like, it feels so late too. It's only 8:50. How good is going to bed early? I'm going to go to bed soon. I don't have to pick up Bree, by the way, now. She just texted. Anyway, we're just, um, all right, PO box. Yeah, PO box 400 Abbotsford, Victoria 3067. I literally have only gotten like 3 things from it.

Josh: All right, we need that to change. I want some mail. We've got the 40th episode coming up pretty soon.

Tommy: Yeah. Next week. Uh, we're only— we've got one episode in between until we have it. It's gonna be fucking sick.

Josh: Live from Krispy Kreme. Live from Krispy Kreme drive-through, 24-hour.

Tommy: We're gonna— it's gonna be our best episode yet.

Josh: It'll be fun. It's from the car. Are we taking my car? I've got a bit bigger car.

Tommy: Nah, but you got so much shit in it with having a kid.

Josh: What do you mean? We're in the front seats, not in the back seats, you weird unit.

Tommy: No, but I just thought like if you're going to use a big 4-wheel drive, you want to treat it like— I would want to fit it out like a street teamer car.

Josh: We're not fucking on the street team.

Tommy: You did street team, didn't you?

Josh: Yeah, I know.

Tommy: What, like, what was your job in the street team?

Josh: Handing out icy cold cans of Coke.

Tommy: What other fucking job is there, baby? What would you actually do? Just very quickly before you go, what sort of stuff?

Josh: Mate, this is what I did. We'd go to an event, would set up, get the barbecue. There would be a barbecue man. We'd be at Coles, would hand out a few cans of Coke. I'd go into Coles and get a steak and then bring it out to the chef and he would cook me the steak. I would eat the steak and we'd just hand out this silly product.

Tommy: Did you feel like elevated? Did you feel like you're an important person? Yeah, slightly. G'day, how are you?

Josh: It's Mountel. They didn't let us on the microphone. Oh, really? It's fucked.

Tommy: Anyway, would you do the call-in?

Josh: Tell me, Jack, should we say what time we're going to be at Krispy Kreme and see if anyone wants to come down tomorrow?

Tommy: Let's work it out because we need to ask the bosses around what time we're going to be able to go. But once we work it out—

Josh: We all ball and chain. Anyway, love you, women. Happy International Women's Day. Seriously, my wife is the best.

Tommy: I love you. No, my girlfriend's the best.

Josh: No, fuck off, Josh.

Tommy: You know what? You've lost this. No, the respectful thing to do is to fight naked to the death. Of which, which partner's the best, and I'll start by getting naked and I'll give—

Josh: You're weird. Sorry if you've had to listen to this last bit.

Tommy: It got really weird, didn't it? I just wanted to make it clear that the fight was between you and I. I feel like halfway through it didn't sound clear, so it sounded really misogynistic. So then I tried— Fighting my wife? So then I tried to make up for it by saying that describing that I was not gonna be naked. So fuck, this is why we can't do this shit. All right, bye guys, bye bye bye.