Splitting the bill

Tommy: It is the Daily Talk Show, TJ.

Josh: Episode 29.

Tommy: Yeah, boy.

Josh: Yeah, nearly at 30. This is, uh, thanks for sticking in if you've listened, if you've been listening the whole time.

Tommy: Thanks for sticking it in.

Josh: All right, mate, it's a bit early for that. Sorry. Actually, I was making jokes before. Josh presented me with this cute— is this, is it a toy from your childhood?

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: So Josh showed me this toy and he said, mate, Bodhi might love this. And he opened it and it's like, uh, it basically looks like a recorder. But like different pieces so you can put things in. It's a music— it's a musical instrument.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: And my response was, have you put that up your ass too?

Tommy: If you haven't listened to episode 14— fuck, why do we remember the episode? Why?

Josh: You said it.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: And then I now know it's episode 14, so go back and cheque that one out.

Tommy: No, but that's good. Yeah, that was early days. That was me as a kid, mate.

Josh: I, um, went to the office before coming here to do this podcast, to pick up a light for you. And, um, there's a reason I had to pick up a light, because you're borrowing my light.

Tommy: Yeah, thank you.

Josh: Because someone lent your light, which is the same one as the one you're borrowing.

Tommy: So I lent someone— yeah, my light.

Josh: Yes. So this is a classic case of you lend something out to a mate.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: And they don't fucking give it back to you for ages.

Tommy: But it's— it's It's one of those things where I know it's my doing. It's that whole—

Josh: Why is it your doing?

Tommy: Well, it's the expectation. I should have said, I— So, the learning is, because it's not their fault at all. Like, and the thing is, I want it— Like, it was because that I care about him and I want him to do stuff. So, I'm like, here, borrow this thing. I like— I'll just need it back by like Wednesday or something, but we'll work it out. My problem was I went too soft on that. I should have— been really specific and said, can you get it to me by this date?

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: And then made it a thing.

Josh: Look, I don't want to drill into the person who hasn't given back the thing that they borrowed from you, but it's an interesting one. It's like this, these like social contracts.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: That are in place that aren't written, but you just know, right? When you borrow something, for me, it's pretty clear-cut, right? So, if I borrow something off you, I'll do what I need to get it back to you because anything outside of me once I've used it is an inconvenience for you, right? So, I feel like I'm fucking— I'll go out of my way to get it back to you.

Tommy: But the thing that I always cheque myself on is, am I like fucking talking too loud?

Josh: No, it's okay.

Tommy: The— It's that I clearly haven't properly communicated.

Josh: No, but that's what I'm saying. I just think it is. Because when you borrow something from somebody, it's not yours to have.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: And if they're not you, like—

Tommy: But how does he know that maybe I wasn't clear enough? Maybe he thought I like, I can have it for a month. Like I have— I didn't elevate the importance of needing it back enough.

Josh: Yeah, I still think— So, you suggested to this person that they borrow it?

Tommy: Yeah, I pushed it. Okay. So, I was like—

Josh: And they used it and so it's for something?

Tommy: Yeah, he's using it. It's good. He's probably— I think he's probably still using it. It's great.

Josh: So, I— It just makes me think— See, this is the situation. It's got its nuances, right? So, it sounds like you've been a bit of a pussy and haven't fucking—

Tommy: Yeah, I just haven't like—

Josh: No, but I borrowed your lens.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: And I used it and got it back to you.

Tommy: Yeah, 100%. But I think it's, um— Yeah, I don't know.

Josh: So I, I had a message from a mate and it was like last November. It's like, dude, I am, I'm off to the races. I just checked my white shirt, it's fucked. I'm leaving in 30 minutes, can you help me out? So I went into my cupboard and I found the shirt that I wore on my wedding day. It's my, like, a crisp white shirt tailored to me. It's fucking sick.

Tommy: Did his girlfriend wear, like, Amy's dress?

Josh: So I said, dude, yep, got one, um, come pick it up. He's like, I'll be there in 5. I was going to an engagement party 2 weeks ago, um, that's February 2018.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: And I thought, fuck me.

Tommy: I've—

Josh: where is that shirt? I had not even thought about it because I hadn't needed it, so I hadn't thought about it until February, which is like 3 months after the fact. And he— and so I texted him, just said, hey dude, I, um, just wondering, have you got that white shirt that I lent you? I'm not sure, did I ever get that back off you? Honestly didn't know. Yeah, I was so confused. And he said, fuck, dude. Yeah, I do. I've had it dry cleaned and it's here. So, he'd just forgotten to give it back to me.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: But he had it dry cleaned there. And I feel like it's—

Tommy: There's so many, but I feel like I've been on the other end where you just—

Josh: You've been on the other end many times.

Tommy: Well, just having someone— Well done. No, you're having someone's things or whatever, and for whatever reason, it hasn't gone full circle yet. You haven't given it back. Yeah, but, um, oh, there was— oh yeah, books, they're a big one, aren't they? Like the—

Josh: well, that's a long— that's a time thing. Yeah, like it could take you a year to read a fucking book.

Tommy: Yeah, maybe you, but, uh, the, um, the, the—

Josh: you have how many? Okay, I'm just looking right now. There's 100 books here.

Tommy: Yeah, probably.

Josh: Have you legitimately read every one of those? Because I know you're a big fucker. You've got Creative Inc. In hard copy there and I've listened to the audiobook in Audible from you.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: So, did you read that copy?

Tommy: I got that as a gift.

Josh: Okay.

Tommy: Yeah. But no, probably half of the books, like the thing is probably only less than probably 10% of the books that I have here, I've actually read that specific copy. So, like, otherwise I've ended up getting the Kindle.

Josh: They're all fucking— Other than that, they're all doorstops.

Tommy: Exactly. But yeah, no, I definitely want to. I just, I feel like books are this awesome commitment to education or that you're going to do something.

Josh: It's like a gym membership. It's like a fucking gym membership.

Tommy: We won't go there again. Sorry, guys. I do. I do. Thank you. I do read them, but I just do Just not always. Like, what will end up happening is I'll buy a book because I'm like out somewhere or like Amazon's got their, like, they've just released it and I'll buy it. Oof, I just knocked the mic. And then I'll get to a point where I'm like, I really just want to fucking read it and I don't have the time to be carrying this book around and I'll listen to the audiobook. But no, I think it is, books are a funny one. But I remember I lent a book to a guy. My old PT, 2012, maybe, maybe 2011. Yeah, I haven't got it back yet. 4-Hour Body, that Tim Ferriss's book, and it was the version before he cut out all of the, um, breathing exercise. He had to cut out a bunch of stuff underwater, like holding your breath, because a bunch of people were like passing out.

Josh: And the 4-Hour Body is like a— it's almost like a life hack for your body.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: And what, people were dying?

Tommy: Yeah, so, well, people weren't dying, but they were fucking— they were underwater going like unconscious and then they were— Holy fuck. Yeah.

Josh: That's just being prescribed something and totally listening to it.

Tommy: Yeah, but that's the thing that, you know how we're talking about the Adderall yesterday?

Josh: Yes.

Tommy: I was continued listening to that podcast after we did ours and then just halfway through, like near the end, they're talking about Adderall. He's like, oh, I don't take that anymore. 'cause it was giving me a bit of anxiety, so I switched to blah blah. I'm like, you gotta be fucking kidding me. This guy is talking, like, pumping up it, like, how it just changed his life and all that sort of thing, just omits for most of the podcast the fact that it was fucking giving him anxiety and he went off it. It's so, like, that's so bullshit, I reckon.

Josh: Friends, it's just back to the borrowing thing. I think there's like If you can't send a text going, "Hey, fuck Wippet, give me my light back." It's like, do you lend stuff? Because I know you could call me and have a hard conversation with me.

Tommy: No, I think, but I think also, I don't know, I think there's also other, like, we all have empathy for people. Like, I know that, okay, this person might be going through stuff or things like that. You're just like contextualising the whole thing. And empathising and realising that in these situations you can get fucking angry about shit or you can be like, oh, this. But I just know that's like, oh, like if someone's not bringing it back, I care about them. I don't like, I know their personality. They're not being fucking malicious. Clearly, there's just been a mis— like I haven't communicated properly. So, what I think that I get out of it and there's a fucking phrase that my mate Dan was talking about, Max Joseph talks about it in one of, in that video where he's talking about dicks, like as in being a dick.

Josh: Oh, you don't, yeah. Do you need to be a dick to be a director?

Tommy: Yeah, and it was like, I forgot what it was called. It's like the, it's like, it's not stubborn, but something like that, like the stubborn giver. It's like, I'm going to give you something. But it's on my terms. And that's what I'm really bad at. When I give something to someone, I'm trying to make the transaction as like fluid and just easy as possible. Whereas what you should probably do, and we've actually spoken about this about when we gave our fucking free bit of furniture away from IKEA on Gumtree.

Josh: What a nightmare.

Tommy: Yeah. Is you just need to, you need to just set expectations. Yeah.

Josh: There is a ripple effect though of, like, say for instance you didn't get this light back. Yeah, you've now put me out of— you put me out twice.

Tommy: Well, I think that the— my thing is that you and I, like, I know that I have and will continue to do that for you, right? So it's like one of those things is like, okay, well, I think in my head, okay, I've given Tommy my lens a bunch of times.

Josh: Yeah, yeah.

Tommy: And but this isn't even— I don't even think about that transactionally, right? It's not like But it feels like, fuck, there's moments where you're under the pump with something and I'll jump in and like sort that shit out and it's, you know, vice versa.

Josh: So it's okay. It's then setting rules or you said it, put, putting, being more specific around what, what did Max say?

Tommy: You need to be the— I can't remember the fucking exact word. Maybe you said before, just say what you said before. It's just that stubborn giver. It's so it's like, I'm going to give you this thing., but it's going to be under my terms. So, what this might mean is so many times I've lent things to people and then I end up picking it up. So, probably a rule of engagement is if you are borrowing something, you return it to me.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: That's fair.

Josh: How do you learn these things, though?

Tommy: Well, you just ex— Yeah.

Josh: Well, I think about taking someone out for coffee and the amount of people that wouldn't pay. And I've heard storeys of— a friend of mine who got taken out, who went out of his way to have a coffee with this dude to get it. This guy wanted advice.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: And then the dude basically didn't pay the bill. My mate paid it.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: It was this weird thing. And so I feel like for me, I've been brought up thinking, okay, if you're putting someone out, you gotta do, you gotta put in effort for that or for them.

Tommy: And I think I'm a shocker at, just not wanting to inconvenience people, not wanting to. And it's also, it's actually probably more selfish than I would want to believe. Like it's, for instance, I feel uncomfortable sometimes when someone's paying for something. I caught up with someone the other day and I just said, "I'll get the coffees." Yeah. And then he said, I actually got one before you arrived because he was working there before. So, he goes, I'll get it. And I just said, oh, thanks for that, which just gave me severe fucking anxiety. And so, I don't know if I've told you about this on the podcast, but in Persian culture, they have this thing called taraf. So, tarof is this sort of interaction that you'll have with people. My mate Naysan is Persian and he does this a lot, right? And it's the game of— Imagine you're at a restaurant and the bill arrives. It is the banter around like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. We have this. We have— Like, it's that back and forth and grabbing the bill and going up with the card and all of that sort of shit. That is something that is expected. And so, if someone says, "Oh, I'll pay the bill," you cannot, like, even if they eventually end up paying the bill, there needs to be this back and forth.

Josh: Really?

Tommy: Yeah. And so—

Josh: It's a game.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: It's like a dance.

Tommy: Yeah. And Naysan tells a storey of one of his Persian friends, like, oh, this is older. Like older people from, must have been like the '70s or something, just after the Islamic Revolution in Iran. So, basically people who were in minorities, so they're Baha'i by religion, but a bunch of other minorities as well were getting persecuted. So, people basically one day they were like living and doing all their stuff and the next day if you were living there you'd fucking, you're in in trouble. So, anyway, a lot of people moved to different parts of the world, the US. There's a huge amount, like there's over a million Persians in like California. Wow. It's like a huge, like—

Josh: Migrants?

Tommy: Yeah. And you'll see just like how we have things like Thai or shit like that, shopping centres and shit would just have Persian places. But anyway, he— Tells the storey of a couple who moved to the US and there was a— they were going to these— the neighbours to introduce themselves. And the neighbour said to the Persian guy, he said, "I love your leather jacket." And the Persian guy says, "Oh, here, have it. Have the jacket." And he's doing it in Taraf. He's never meant to get like— and the guy fucking took the jacket. Well, because the guy I wasn't legit Persian. No, no, no.

Josh: So, he wasn't Persian.

Tommy: He wasn't Persian. It was the American dude, right? It's the American neighbour. So, that was, that's a fucking lesson in these things that like we can, what you're talking about, and this is why I have no issue with my mate. And I think like we all have these languages and different terms that we work on. And most, I think that coming from a place where People generally, especially your mates, aren't being fucking malicious. And they're even just like, maybe not. I even think about like, I think about the shit that I put myself under in regards to poor planning. Of course, that's going to happen. Like friends, I'm sure I apply that to like, I should have foreseen. So, this is what should have happened. This is my self-reflection going on. I was in Sydney on a shoot. I had this other shoot locked in today, which I'm about to go to, and I've known about this shoot for a week. If I'd given it any sort of planning, I would have thought, I need a light, I need to do all that sort of thing. And so, that is the— It's the— So, in my head, there was a few solutions I had. I'm like, okay, I can either drive to my mate in the morning and get it. And contact him in the morning. I can contact you. So, it is, um.

Josh: Yeah, I guess there's a point where it starts affecting your world greater than.

Tommy: I think it's always just being in a position where these things can't affect you. The podcast I was listening to, there was one interesting thing the guy was talking about, which was You know, we've talked about honesty and stuff a lot. He was saying—

Josh: That's how we got the squidgy story.

Tommy: Exactly.

Josh: Episode 14 of Radical Honesty, it's called.

Tommy: And the fucking— This, yeah, this guy was saying how, what like this sort of honesty does, right? People trust you more and all that sort of thing. But he was also saying what it does to your social status and what it does like. So, someone who is really sure of themselves, someone who has the feel like has that social status is just going to say shit, right?

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: They'll sit like, they'll say things that might other people might perceive as embarrassing or whatever it is. And it's sort of like a bit of a fuck you world. Like, I don't really care. That's a really powerful place to be in. And I think that extension onto that is I think that if you're going to have a coffee with someone and like it's taken me, I reckon I've racked up a bill with a mate where I've probably spent like over the course of like 3 months, I would have spent maybe $250 on food for them.

Josh: Really?

Tommy: It's just, and I just realised that, and it wasn't until I hit that too, like it took $250. Before I was like, actually, you know what? Like, I don't— I never get the money back.

Josh: Is this the fucking Persian dude and you're winning the tariff?

Tommy: Taroff, yeah. Taroff? Taroff, I like it. Yeah, I mean, it's— Yeah, I think that some— Everyone is just— Thinks a little bit differently, right? And that's the other thing. Like, I think that everyone rationalises little things in their heads. So, you think about— And that's why even when I'm like with with like friends who are really wealthy and really well off, I never— I make a fucking effort to— There is no expectation that they should be paying for shit. I think that people are fucking vultures and they like, people just expect that, you know, like I've, you know, I know— I've got friends who they'll, if they're going on a holiday, they'll go on a holiday and they still do the sort of family holiday things and it's expected that mum and dad, you know, and they're 30 and mum and dad will get the bill and they're going to get everyone's flights and they're going to look after them. And fuck, amazing if you're in a position in a family where that's a thing and you're able to do it. And I'm sure fucking where you're from and that's like, yeah, there's probably a lot of people that are, that are like that because there's a bunch of fucking coin. But I don't think that that's a good place or a good expectation to have. And what I like to think, and sometimes it's to my own detriment. But it's like, it's things like coffees and shit like that. I know that shit will come around. I know that like worst case scenario, if I buy you a coffee, so if I buy you a coffee 100 times a year without any expectation of anything else and it's $5 a coffee, it is only $500. I would Bree has to rein me in on like, if I see a gift for, if I see something, if I saw something that was $500 that I thought fucking Tommy would lose his mind at this, I'd fucking buy it. Like I'm not someone who does birthday. I'm not like a birthday gift type of thing.

Josh: You know someone who would be very disappointed in you?

Tommy: Who?

Josh: Barefoot Investor.

Tommy: Yeah, fucking, but you know what? I think it's probably—

Josh: Fucking splurging nonstop.

Tommy: Probably not though, because the thing that Barefoot talks about, what, Peypey talks about is the fact that this isn't about going to a fucking house party and not bringing a bottle of wine. So, it's about prioritising.

Josh: So, you just bring favourites. The gift to bring when they ask you not to bring a gift.

Tommy: Our first sponsor. No, but the thing is, the— To me, this is how I rationalise these things, right? Don't spend money on booze.

Josh: Yes.

Tommy: Don't spend money on like so many of these things. And one of the things that like I prioritise is not having the friction that when I'm going out to dinner or something, that there's going to be a fucking, you know, an issue with the like splitting bills. How are you with splitting bills?

Josh: I'm fine. So, this is where it comes into an issue for you when you've got alcohol, because if you're not having alcohol and the table has 6 people and 5 of them have drank alcohol, which will equate for 40% of the bill, then you are forced to pay half. I always like to just make sure it's even.

Tommy: Yeah. Well, I think that what I do is I gauge what everyone else will do. Unfortunately, when everyone's been fucking drinking, they're a bit tweaked and they fucking, they're not thinking. It's not top of mind to them.

Josh: Dude, my birthday, a place called Amigos Mexican restaurant, we had nachos there once.

Tommy: Fucking loved that nachos.

Josh: So, he was there, he was like, 15 people. Might have been my 22nd birthday, and we went around the table splitting the bill, and I was in charge of it. Fucking annoying. I'd never take this role on now. I avoid it like the plague. Yeah, of trying to work out how much, getting cash, counting it. I was— it was like $300 short.

Tommy: Fuck.

Josh: Pissed idiots. Yeah, and I ended up just having to pay it. Yeah, for some reason it's like, maybe it's— it hasn't happened since. Maybe it's because it— I was fucking pissed off about it.

Tommy: Well, you, you had a, uh, a friend who was, um, bridesmaid. They were going overseas and all that. So what happened? What happened with that? This was the, um, uh, it was something about the bridesmaids, I remember, and there was a splitting of a cost associated with a hens event.

Josh: Oh, hang on, hang on. Let me just think this.

Tommy: I just remember there being this, I remember we're having a similar conversation.

Josh: Yeah, so it was a hens party that wasn't attended by some of the bridal party.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: But then the organiser of the hens party asked the people who didn't go to the hens party to chip in.

Tommy: And it was based on how much people had fucking spent on booze and shit like that, right?

Josh: So it was totally— I think it's the same back to that social thing. It's like, if you're— even if you're a bridesmaid and you can't make the hens party and one of the other bridesmaids is organising the hens party, you don't have to pay because you didn't go. It's pretty clear. And so there was some miscommunication people throwing out there and just like, It snowballed. But if you weren't one to sort of go, hey, hey, hey, well, you would be paying, right?

Tommy: It's the expectation thing, right? So, the assumption with that is that if that would happen, that when things are reversed or stuff like that, like it can be the opposite where it's like someone who is actually really generous. Yeah.

Josh: But I think this gets people, dude, because it's like you, I think you've been on the receiving end of stuff that's made you unhappy. And I know you can look at it, you can go, "Oh, big picture stuff and like, I'll come back." But what about the person who doesn't have the money? Yeah. And then is frightened to say something because it makes them super uncomfortable. And you know that uncomfortable feeling all too well.

Tommy: Yeah. But I think that this, the other thing that I find interesting is it's where people, like what people prioritise, right? I remember like You know, 4 years ago, like when I, you know, I would rely on credit cards quite heavily, right. And people would— You were ballin'. Yeah. And people would say, but people would say like, Dad—

Josh: That's just not good.

Tommy: But the thing is, people would be so tight with stuff, right. And I, and maybe that's why I fucking had credit card debt. And I feel like I've found an in-between now where I like still splurge, do stuff, but I live within my means. But the thing that would, piss me off is it's people who would say, I just can't afford it or I can't do that or that sort of thing. And then it's like, well, come on, fucker, you've got like, you've got a huge amount of cash in the bank. But the thing is, you can't like, everyone is got, everyone is on their different journey. They're prioritising. This is the, this is actually how much you've been talking, by the way.

Josh: Sorry, you're fucking outrageous. I'm just saying you don't want to be known as a tight ass. And that's what you do. You definitely don't want to be known. I'm saying like, that's what I'm gauging.

Tommy: Well, no, I think it's, um, yeah, I mean, because I think the psychology of it is fucking detrimental to growth. If you're always thinking about those like little small transactions, how can you go into the big— how can you seal big fuck-off jobs? I think that there's a balance, right? But the thing is like Talking about that people's context, you spend a fuck tonne on daycare every single day, right?

Josh: Actually have no option.

Tommy: Yeah. And so, that's the consideration as well, right? I don't have that cost. So, everyone's playing it within their own realm. Now, I'm fucking annoyed that I've spoken so much.

Josh: Well, you're saying— So, you said it before, I don't buy alcohol, but there is probably the similar spending in your life that is that alcohol thing.

Tommy: Yeah, absolutely.

Josh: Food, going out for dinner a bit more because you are not— Yeah, we fuckin' Uber, like, yeah, Uber Eats.

Tommy: Uber Eats.

Josh: Uber Eats.

Tommy: Or, but like, we actually don't do it as much. Like, just actually eating out is probably the big one.

Josh: And even, um, money just makes people funny. Yeah, it's a, it's a stressful thing for people, like the thought of not having money. Is fucking paralysing.

Tommy: I think that I agree. And I think that everyone has their version of worst-case scenario. But one thing that I find interesting is I know lots of people who are penny pinchers and that they might have a bunch of cash in the bank, but they're not like living an aspirational life, like in my version of it. And I think that they're almost like, folk, like the thing is that you accumulate money for what? Like, what is the end game? And I mean, and part of it is the practicality. And that's like even like not having kids for us is like, it's a little bit practical. It's like, okay, we're still figuring all this stuff out, but us not having kids right now means that we can be doing all of these sort of things.

Josh: Dude, it's like putting yourself— it's like the— I don't want to get into it, talking about the gym, though. There's a level of pain putting yourself through.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: And it's for some reward at the end, but it's— there's no like one— there's no peak point where you're standing there and you're done forever. And it's the same with money, right?

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: You're putting yourself through some uncomfortable times. To have the money for a mortgage, which could be one mindset. The other mindset is I'm going to make enough and put myself through the pain anyway and have a fucking great lifestyle.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: And some people are paralysed by the thought of having that million-dollar mortgage. And so they— that's not the right place for them to be. But then there's some dude who— it could be you— who has this big mortgage makes money, is sort of pushing, stretching yourself. But it's like that's the place where you're kind of feeling happy. And it's on that, in that chaos that you're in. And James, my mate, I was talking to him about the Barefoot Investor's principles around, you know, he's got one that talks about being a postcode povo, which is the person who has a house in Brighton that's mortgaged to the eyeballs. Yeah. And their repayments are just being made from their wage because they have kids, etc. So they're actually at a really dangerous place where if their fucking job falls through, they're done. The house is gone, everything's gone. But James, my mate, was saying that he understands that principle, but then for some people it's like you need to stretch yourself. So when you apply that million-dollar mortgage, you will make it happen. Yeah. If you get the $500,000 mortgage, that's a lot easier. You'll make that happen too. So, it's like this stretching game where you put your— throw yourself into situations and you adapt to them.

Tommy: Elon Musk, right? He sold PayPal for like, you know, he was worth hundreds of millions of dollars. It was not long after that, that he would have to stay at friends' apartments because he was so highly leveraged with all of his other businesses. He'd been putting everything into things like Tesla. He literally didn't have the coin to be able to buy. Like, and you're talking like hundreds of millions of dollars. Fuck. So, you think about that. And so, I think that there's always like, yes, we can play a safe game and there's—

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: There's, I think there's good debt and bad debt as well, right? There's good, like there's stuff that's going to move you forward and then there's just fucking wasting.

Josh: So it's like mindless. And I think the danger is there's a lot of people who don't, that aren't equipped for doing the million-dollar stretch and things like that, that are feeling like their mates are doing it, they should do it, when in reality it's just not their thing and that's okay. And so I fuck, I don't know which one I am. I stretch myself a lot. And I have a— you and I have a more similar mindset of like, let's make it happen.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: Like our confidence in our hustle, in our hustle. And we feel like we'll actually make something of something at some point.

Tommy: I think that it's sort of a closing note. I think that the thing that helps is realising like, okay, what's the worst case scenario? And for me, most of the time, the worst case scenario is like becoming an employee somewhere and just taking a good salary and doing that. But I think the other thing too is it's not about accumulating things. For me, it's about experiences. And I know that's its own cliché, but I think what we've determined is maybe it's a mix of discipline. So, there's a discipline layer and then there's a prioritisation layer. So, it's about making— putting a priority list in what is important to you. And then once you have that list, then you can start making decisions. So, for an example is I remember I sort of created a list which was my values. And one of them was like creating over consuming. This was a few years ago when I was working at Envato. And so, from a financial point of view, I would say I'm not going to waste money on buying a new fucking flash TV or stuff that I could consume. I'm only— I'm not going to buy an iPhone for the new screen. I'm buying it for the new fucking camera. And obviously, that's just like justifying purchase 101. But I think that that is the— Aligning your values with what you're buying is important.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: So, it's—

Tommy: if you—

Josh: it's like the house, the— what is it? The Australian dream or the American dream, buying a house. The problem is if you— it's not— you care or you don't think about that as being a priority because plenty of rich people don't— who rent.

Tommy: Yeah. But also—

Josh: And it's a calculated decision, but they've probably thought it out saying, well, if we just rent, we only need to pay You know, $30,000 a year for this place, a house, the mortgage. Yeah, we might get some back at the end of it, but we don't want that tied down to that. So, we have all this cash. And so, I mean, that works for some, but it totally— I mean, you've got to live somewhere.

Tommy: And you've got to think, you've got to also think about what you're aiming for. You've got to think about where's Bodhi going to school? Where is he like a roof over his head, all that sort of thing.

Josh: It changes. That's right. You're saying. Your travel experiences is your thing, it completely changes when you have kids.

Tommy: Yeah. Brain on overload. You gotta think about it.

Josh: It's an internal thought or you're getting it down on paper to actually make sense of this shit. It's hard though. Like I find goal setting hard. I find being honest with myself in that way without being crippled by my inner dialogue, lizard brain saying, nah, you probably can't do it. Oh, that's a bit much. Or you probably couldn't make that much money. It's super hard. And so, it's not an easy process to go through and work it out, work out exactly what you want.

Tommy: But I think the other thing too is when people decide to be frugal or whatever it is, it's about shifting the mind from, ah, I have to do this. It's the same with food, to be honest. It's not this thing of like, It's changing the language from, man, I have to fucking do this shit job because I'm paying this thing and I've got all these bills and that sort of thing. Or I need to fucking eat this salad, it fucking tastes like shit and all that sort of thing. To I'm fucking saving money, I'm doing this thing because I'm buying my dream house and this is what it's going to take. And it's like the salad stuff, it's like, this is going to make me feel better. This is what like, This is gonna nourish me. And it's like the other thing too, which really helped me was it was saying, you know, I used to say, if I was dieting or something, I would say I can't have like something, like I can't have that. Where it's like, I don't want that. It's a very different mindset. And so, I think—

Josh: 'Cause I'm dieting means you'd want it if you weren't dieting, so.

Tommy: Yeah, and so it's saying, and so it's being very careful around language. I've just spent the last fucking week with really sort of in-tune yoguresque people, specifically the person that I filmed yesterday. And the thing that I took out of it is the language they use. Like, it was for like working with the agency I'm working with. They're like, it can be a bit cynical and shit. So it's really funny when they email This talent. And like the person would say to someone, "Oh, how are you?" And a person like from the agency would just be like, "Oh yeah, good. How are you going?" And the person said back, "Empowered." That was their answer. And it's like that—

Josh: Fuck. My initial thought, wanky. The second thought is you just hope that the words coming out of their mouth what they're writing is aligned with the words and talk in their mind, right? Because it's faking it till you make it with words. You know, it's like I've heard someone talking about responding when someone says, how are you? Yeah, good, thanks. It's like, that's a triggered response. It's mainly how you say, because you don't want to get into how you feel.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: But it was like, try out actually saying how you feel. So even if you're like, yeah, I'm not actually feeling that great today, had a bit of anxiety this morning. It's like, fuck, that opens up this world that's honest.

Tommy: And so, yeah, it's, and it's that thing too of, okay, so how, if you're feeling something in a certain way, uh, do you respond and do you, do your actions need to be that or can you have a different action which changes your mood? Yeah. I think that that's like super fucking powerful, right? So, it's that whole thing of like if you're all like fucking tense and then you have some fuckhead cut you off at the airport, like, you know, knock into you or something like that. In that moment, do you respond with fucking being angry?

Josh: A front kick.

Tommy: A front kick to the head?

Josh: I'd fucking respond with a front kick.

Tommy: Or do you do a bit of a, you know, like, hang on, this is actually my moment of practice. This is my moment to be like, It's fine. And to be honest, I think where it starts is you start off with the sarcastic tone, the bit of a smile, like, have a great day, you know? And then it slowly becomes just, this shit doesn't affect me.

Josh: I think pulling it back a layer is like actually thinking about that. So when you're tired from work and thinking about you, it's like you need to be more present with, fuck, I'm feeling shit house.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: I just want to punch something.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: But it's like, I know that I'm feeling shit ass because I'm tired and I want to punch something because of that. It's like, it's this fucking dance in your mind to fight. Hey, do you feel, seeing as we're talking about feelings, do you feel uncomfortable if your friend who borrowed the light listens to this podcast?

Tommy: Uh, nah.

Josh: You don't?

Tommy: No. I mean, I, the, the only reason I'd feel uncomfortable was he'll be like, well, JJ, you didn't fucking really communicate it. And to be clear, very, very apologetic. Yeah, he was like, oh man, I'm so sorry. It's like, I didn't mean—

Josh: my work's done here if you get your light back. He had delivered to your door.

Tommy: He doesn't know that I've got a shoot today, right? So yeah, and it is a part of that. It is that like we need to vocalise and say these things. And it's like even on the shoot, I had like one conversation like where I'm like, uh, these roles, like these specific people, they could be doing stuff differently. And then Bree's like, oh, you should just let them know. And I had this conversation, I could feel like my chest hurt. I was like, you know, when you sort of, you're trying to talk and breathe at the same time and it's just like, it's all a bit hard. Well, it's just like a change. It's a shift in your body. Yeah.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: But I had this really hard conversation, but I was honest. I'm like, you know what? I actually, I sound like a cunt when I'm saying it, but I was like, hey, the best thing that you can do for me today, this is what I had to say. I felt in the moment like a fucking idiot, but I'm like, I just need hands and stuff. Like, if you can just make sure that like we've got food and that like everyone's got coffees and we're on time and we're doing that. And the person was fucking amazing. She like took it and was like, oh, of course. And then it's like, and then you're rolling and everyone feels great. And she not like, you need to be, you need to give people expectations so they can either, so they can work towards it. It's like having a middle manager. If you've got a manager and they don't fucking give you any direction, they're real fucking blasé about shit. You're always uncomfortable of like, am I doing the right thing?

Josh: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh yeah. It's having tough conversations. You feel liberated after, don't you?

Tommy: 100%. And even yesterday, I know, like, talking about that whole fucking triggered thing, doing our— and this, like, this is going—

Josh: You were triggered by your girlfriend telling you that you talk about being triggered all the time, and then you just said, then talking about that triggered thing, it's like, we haven't been talking about the triggered thing. You've been thinking about being triggered.

Tommy: She was talking about the projection, but very quickly I wanted to I was triggered. I wanted to get your thoughts on this because this is going super fucking meta and we can have these conversations because we're so close. Yesterday when we had the technical issues and you probably could sense that like I was just fucking like getting annoyed. And the interesting thing was, you know, we had technical stuff and you were trying— I was frustrated in not being able to be there to be able to fix a technical issue that you were having.

Josh: On the podcast we're talking about.

Tommy: On the podcast. But the interesting thing was like I even caught myself saying it. I'm like, this is where it all stems from. I said, you know, this is how you feel about my fitness stuff, right? Do you remember that?

Josh: Yeah. I was like, what the fuck is this guy talking about?

Tommy: But do you get it, right? So like if we really deconstruct it, it was like I realise that my fitness stuff, all of those sort of things aren't perfectly in line. I'm like, I'm a fucking— I'm a little bit broken in that regard. Or not even fucking broken. I'm not fucking— That isn't my strength, right? And I think of it in that podcast, I think that what it did was it was honing in on that weakness without the empathy of like, fuck, we like— It wasn't— It's okay that we don't like have everything fucking dialled in. And it's not about getting upset. It's like realising that Fuck it. There's a mental struggle there. And so, for me, it's interesting because that lack of empathy on that one, I think, came out in me in my lack of empathy with the tech stuff, because I was just like— So, I think that that's a— It's an interesting observation. I cut myself. I've got this— I didn't cut myself. I cut myself off because I realised in that moment, I'm like, actually, you know what? I can choose. To be or realise that we're both fucking playing this same fucking game and trying to work this out. I mean, how do you feel about that stuff?

Josh: I don't know what connection that had to what we're talking about.

Tommy: Yeah, I don't either.

Josh: It's Friday, everyone.

Tommy: 42 minutes. You said you only wanted to talk for 30.

Josh: Yeah, I gotta get back to the office.

Tommy: I'm annoyed that how long— Campton, if you think I spoke too much for this episode, you can go fuck yourself because I'm looking at the waveform right now. And it's very uneven, but I've just had some dark chocolate for some caffeine. That's my excuse. And also, Tommy felt a bit loose. I felt like you made me nervous about you talking about my mate, that you— And so, I felt like I had to fucking just make sure you fucking reined it in.

Josh: Alright, guys. Get the light back to Josh, please.

Tommy: The Daily Talk Show, everyone. Feel free to— Actually, don't feel free. Leave us a fucking review, you piece of shit. Because actually, I'm sorry I was so rude just then.

Josh: Nah, nah, nah, if you're listening, just please.

Tommy: And if you are enjoying it. Uh, uh.

Josh: How do we lock in again for a Friday?

Tommy: Exactly, have a good one, bye.