The sugar has kicked in

Josh: It is The Daily Talk Show and it is Friday the 9th of February. And I wanted to apologise for yesterday saying happy Wednesday and talking about Wednesday. Yeah.

Tommy: When it was Thursday.

Josh: And it was really annoying because you had said that you'd been listening back to the podcast and it pisses you off that we spend the first 15 seconds of every podcast talking about the number.

Tommy: Which this is what we do. Listen, we can say the number of the podcast because I think it's like mile setting milestones.

Josh: Okay.

Tommy: But the day. Whatever. If you're tuning in next week, it's all good. So, we're going to stop saying what day it is.

Josh: But what I think is that most people who are listening to this podcast are listening to it daily and they like the idea of, "Oh, I'm listening to Tommy and Josh and this is their thoughts from today." Before we go any further, say the day, say the number of the podcast, say the date and move on. Okay.

Tommy: Not the weather.

Josh: Well, I was just going to say... Just default conversations. Okay. We've—

Tommy: I think we talked about on this, it's like— People who just go into talking about random shit.

Josh: Well, we're talking so much louder already because we're fucking high on chocolate.

Tommy: We just ate a bunch of really great chocolate.

Josh: Yeah. So, Bree works at a chocolate company called Hey Tiger.

Tommy: Yeah. And my biggest concern was we've been friends the whole time she's been working there and I've hardly eaten any of the chocolate. So, I'm going, where's this chocolate? You work for a chocolate company?

Josh: And so, they haven't officially— Fuck, I've got some. Chili one's really good.

Tommy: That sounded so fake, but he actually just ate some chips.

Josh: Anyway. Maybe they need to tweak that recipe because I'm done. No, it was delicious.

Tommy: The—

Josh: Yeah. So, the point being that Bree's been doing a shoot. They haven't officially launched, but they've been shooting all of the product. So, the kitchen's been busy making it all.

Tommy: So— Highs from— Let's just— I don't want to take it away from these free plugs for businesses, but man.

Josh: Unless they do a PO box thing. PO box 400, Abbotsford, Victoria 3067.

Tommy: Oh, we were very excited for the Friday. We were at high. But my high from coffee nowadays is like, I feel it. It's like, it's almost like a rush in the morning.

Josh: Yeah, I don't think that I'm aware enough or I wasn't aware enough that I was doing it. But the other day I had a meeting with a client. I had a long black. I feel like when I have a long black, I really, really gunpowder. Yeah, I get real like, I get too probably Gary Vee. For people who know Gary Vee, I start you like getting like, you know, people need to be doing this and this is the thing about the industry and A, B, and C. And like, all right, have you got a bit like, I'll say shit like, have you got a pen and paper? I'm going to write down the next 7 steps of what you need to do. I did that to you yesterday, man.

Tommy: I tell you what, for any of my friends, you were one of the best at dishing out advice. And like, it's not even advice, like unsolicited advice. It's like the thing I'm struggling with, you come in and fucking, you basically solved it. But then it's like doing that for yourself is one of the hardest things to possibly do.

Josh: I think trying to, I find it very easy to look inside and be able to sort something out. I think I'm getting better at doing the other piece. I think that the other part of it is obviously I'm not doing the work. I don't think what I like, strategic thinking is important and it's a piece that most people don't have. But the thing that's going to make your idea pop and what we spoke about and what we built yesterday for you, that's going to really take place when you actually do it and you have your first sale and all that sort of thing.

Tommy: It's consultants. It's, I had a, I used to train, personal train an old school accountant.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: Who was just like telling me, he's like, oh, consultants, it's like they do nothing, charge a lot of money and come in. They do, but they just are telling someone what to do, but not having to get into the nitty-gritty of it. So, it's quite easy.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: Seeing it. And I think it is probably your point.

Josh: But this is the difference, I think, of what I'm doing. So, there's this obvious advice that is a bit rah-rah and it's talking about stuff about mindset and all that sort of thing. And what I really love is, and what we did is it's like, well, what does that mean? If you would actually do that, if you actually implement some sort of strategy of things that you're— What if we were— What we basically did yesterday was a fucking to-do list of everything that you need to now do to be able to make it happen. Yeah, I think that shit's fun.

Tommy: So, you're wearing headphones.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: I'm not. You got one ear off. I kind of ditched them. But I— Have I told you about the time that I was driving down the highway and I saw that this fucking dude driving along laughing his ass off. Eating a bowl of cereal with a spoon, like a legit full bowl cereal, and he had noise-cancelling headphones on in the car.

Josh: Was it a— Did you bump it? Was it a TACA?

Tommy: He was just listening to a podcast or something funny.

Josh: Listening to us, maybe, if you are.

Tommy: Tackling his head off.

Josh: P.O. Box 400.

Tommy: And then yesterday I saw another person noise-cancelling headphones while driving.

Josh: Yeah, nah, shouldn't do that. I feel even weird having my wireless AirPods in. But there are ways—

Tommy: I saw a guy doing a— getting trained by a person at the gym yesterday and he was wearing headphones in both ears while being trained by a trainer.

Josh: It's a bit off, isn't it? It's like when I go up to order a coffee, I feel the need to take one earpod off.

Tommy: Even though— Even though, yeah.

Josh: Even though it's not going to really make a difference, but it just seems like the visual cue that I actually respect you and I'm not a fucking tosser.

Tommy: And I was thinking about talking this on the way here this morning, and I was looking—

Josh: How long was your drive? How long does it take to go from St Kilda to Collingwood?

Tommy: 30 minutes max. Sometimes more. It depends when I leave.

Josh: It's not too bad.

Tommy: Like, you leave 5 minutes later, it could be 40.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: But this morning it was only 25. And I'm going along, dropped my wife off at work, and tram pulled up next to me.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: Absolutely everybody on the tram's on their headphones, with their headphones.

Josh: How many wireless?

Tommy: I didn't see a great deal of EarPods. AirPods.

Josh: AirPods. EarPods are just the non-wireless version. So it's one of their products.

Tommy: So I didn't see, yeah, I didn't see many people, but it's this, we really, I mean, this is, we're creating podcasts that usually will be listened to through some sort of earphone device.

Josh: Yeah. The way you're saying it's so alien.

Tommy: Yeah. Well, because you're going to be listening to— I feel like there has been a real shift in the last 3, 4 years into just head— everyone wearing headphones, everyone blocking out the world.

Josh: I think that what it is is it's personal entertainment.

Tommy: Yeah. So, it's white noise, really.

Josh: I mean, well, yeah, it's a noise. It's— and it's going to probably have— people seem to focus on the issue that's going to come out of these types of things. I think part of the issues is not being able to be alone in our own thoughts. We constantly need fucking Joe Rogan or Josh and Tommy Entertaining us with these fucking monkeys that can't just turn off. So, I think that's part of it. But the other part is it's like freedom in choice and it's on demand, right? You think about it. It's like it was, if we go back 10 years, it was like if you're watching TV, everyone has to be into the same thing. Where Bri will be watching fucking Married at First Sight and I'll have my airpod. I'll be lying down with her with my like legs on her. And we'll be— She'll be watching TV and this is like a traditional, you know, 10 years ago sitting on the couch. But the difference is that she's watching one thing and I've got my AirPods in and I'm listening to something that's not going to fucking rot my brain to the core.

Tommy: You're a romantic modern-day couple, aren't you? You really are. You two, you and your girlfriend, Bree.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: So engaged technologically.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: It is.

Josh: It's like— In just like the— Well, we've got Find Friends.

Tommy: Yeah. You and I have Find Friends.

Josh: Do you and Amy have Find Friends? Yeah, it's awesome. It's great.

Tommy: It's on iPhones. You can turn it on so you can just track where your friend is.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: All the time. And it's amazing with Amy when she's in a cab. It's like, last night she was on her way home and I just made sure she was okay.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: She was on the way.

Josh: You need to— I feel like the only thing is you need to be quite good friends because I had cases where I just had fucking every man and his dog on there.

Tommy: Yeah, that's weird.

Josh: And then as I started being like, I don't really care about this person.

Tommy: Yeah, I think these barriers are really low at the start, but then they— people start understanding. Okay, then that's weird.

Josh: Well, so I think that an equivalent is— Do you know where I think all this social network stuff is going?

Tommy: Where?

Josh: Hashtag futurist. It's all going to be instant messaging. I'll tell you why.

Tommy: Instant messaging.

Josh: Instant messaging. So, it's like WhatsApp. No, like WhatsApp. All of these things, and maybe it's already fucking happened, but people don't want to. And like, people have friended so many people, they've followed so many people that they've got. And the reality is that the person that I cared about, you know, 10 years ago, I don't care about necessarily as much now. And the stuff that I want to share is only really relevant to the people who I'm connected with day to day.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: And direct messages and doing the The chat stuff seems to play into that. Do you have any group chats? Do you do group chats with anyone?

Tommy: Oh, yeah, yeah. On Telegram. It's just with a couple of boys, but not really.

Josh: Telegram?

Tommy: I haven't got into it. It's only because they all use Telegram, and so I just downloaded it.

Josh: And it's a group chat?

Tommy: Yeah, it's a group chat.

Josh: What sort of stuff do you talk about?

Tommy: It's just bullshit memes and stuff getting sent through, like funny videos and But did I tell you when I was in Tel Aviv, Israel, I was trying to work out for the fucking life of me why everyone was just holding the phone to their mouth like upside down. Looked like they were just like taking a voice memo.

Josh: They're all fucking spies there, aren't they?

Tommy: No, turns out they use WhatsApp and there's the audio record that you just record a piece of audio.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: And everyone's not talking. And when we were there—

Josh: And they'd have headphones, right? Or no?

Tommy: Oh no, no, no. How do they play them back? Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

Josh: Maybe they do have headphones.

Tommy: I guess you gotta, otherwise it's loud.

Josh: What they probably do is they have headphones without a mic port and that's why they're bringing it up to there.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: So, they've got some nice fucking fancy headphones. You hear the voice talking.

Tommy: But it's really, really popular over there.

Josh: Voice is big.

Tommy: And I've got some friends here, all within Jewish community that like go over to Israel because it's the motherland.

Josh: And they get into it.

Tommy: I got a voice memo. From my mate's wife and I was like taken aback. I was like, fucking, this is weird.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: This voice memo thing. Hey guys, it's Sam, blah, blah, blah. And we were like. But it made sense when we went over to their wedding in Israel and seeing everyone doing it there. Yeah.

Josh: But I think it's cool. I think Tony Robbins does that rather than email.

Tommy: Tony Robbins?

Josh: Yeah. He'll send attachments. So, I think he's probably got like an EA or whatever. Who sends his emails. But if the EA might say, just got an email from Tommy Jacket, he's saying, hey mate, will you come on the daily talk show? I'm a Melbourne fan, blah blah blah.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: And he'll be like, okay, yeah, press record. Tommy, it's— Oh, I'm doing Arnold Schwarzenegger. Tommy, Tommy, get into the chopper. No, but he'll say blah blah blah, talk, and then they'll fucking attach it.

Tommy: It's a good idea.

Josh: It's personal.

Tommy: I like it.

Josh: Well, you would like that more if you got that from Tony Robbins versus a fucking email. You'd be pretty pumped.

Tommy: Oh, mate, it's those little 1%ers that it's like sending someone a video thing.

Josh: Should we start doing that? Should we only start talking through voice? I think it's going to annoy the fuck out of Bree if it's like, um, now she'll be watching Married at First Sight and you'll have your ear pods in. Yeah, but I'll be saying, you know, good night, love you, and then she'll be like, to me, oh, good night, and she's like, I'm talking to Tommy.

Tommy: I do love audio and it's like Gary Vee fucking banging on about voices the new—

Josh: Yeah, Gary Vee. And you know what's fucking funny about Gary Vee? All these people who are just discovering it, like people who I saw on my Insta story, some fucking person who Bri used to work with, who we're friends with, and she's like, just got my book, like crushing it. I'm like, this is—

Tommy: it's so weird. Tell us what the— Because you come into these people very early.

Josh: Yeah, I'm a premature on the— Yes, exactly.

Tommy: When did you first find Gary Vee? What year?

Josh: 2006.

Tommy: Fuck, that's like start of his inception.

Josh: It was like 2006, maybe 2007.

Tommy: Didn't you send him an email?

Josh: Yeah, I sent him an email. You saw me go to my laptop as if I was going to go through it. Yeah, I sent him an email and that was probably 2011 or 2010, that would have been 2010. And I said, hey, if you need any videos done into it, I know that, you know, Victoria and South Australia have great wines. If you ever need any video content, let me know. I never heard back from him, I don't think, but he would always write back on Twitter. And the thing was that he hasn't changed that, but like where he has changed. So, he's this entrepreneur dude who has VaynerMedia and he's built a career of talking about technology. And so, the thing is he had a— His parents or dad had a business called Wine Library in— on the East Coast in the US.

Tommy: It was a wine business and then he created Wine Library TV.

Josh: Yeah. So, well, he created Wine Library, the website.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: Like so, for online stores and like an online store and all that sort of thing. And obviously, I wasn't connected into that at all, but the thing was that he He started Wine Library TV, which was like his video podcast. And because the thing was, when podcasting started, he was using a service called Vidler. So, he was putting all of his money on this service called Vidler. And I know that I've been mentioning Matt D'Avella on every single episode, and I do have a mention of him. He was actually, and he's the guy who directed Minimalism. He, Minimalist? Minimalism. Can never fucking remember. Minimalism, Netflix doco. He actually worked, he was a freelancer for Vidler and Vidler was like a competitor to YouTube and Vimeo. And the interesting thing was that from the get-go you could leave a comment and it was timecode specific. So, imagine like Frame.io or Whipster, these video services that allow clients to comment on specific bits. That's what the comments were. So, you could be watching a video and you would see pop-ups where people commenting and And all of Gary's videos were on Vidler, and that's how I consumed his content. But he— the way that I found him was same with Tim Ferriss. All of these guys would go to South by Southwest, and I would consume all of the content from South by Southwest.

Tommy: I'm not sure what is South by Southwest.

Josh: South by Southwest started off as a music festival in Austin, Texas.

Tommy: Yeah, I thought that.

Josh: And it has become the biggest sort of culture festival and one in the biggest area, I think, now, or the one that's probably gets geeks the most excited is they've got like a tech stream. So, it's like a few days of the latest in— It would be everything from VR to social networks to podcasting, video, all of that stuff. And I went there 2 years ago, I think.

Tommy: Fuck, what time of year is it?

Josh: It's March.

Tommy: January, February, March. Fuck, I would love to go. Let's go.

Josh: It's fucking great. The thing is that, so I remember I, uh, it'd be fucking amazing. It gets so expensive from a— I remember we were staying at like a fairly shitty hotel, it was $300 a night. Yeah. Um, and you have to—

Tommy: GoFundMe? Can we do a GoFundMe? GoFund Josh and Tommy to South by Southwest.

Josh: There's been lesser reasons for people setting up GoFundMes. But the— Oh, it's fucking great. It's like you have barbecue every day. Like, that's amazing. And it was like— And the interesting thing is that it's everything. It's all of the buildings and stuff, hotels, everything are all taken up by the festival. And yeah, so it's just like you have— And that's where Tim Ferriss got sort of his name. So, when The 4-Hour Workweek came out, this would have been like '07, maybe. And he was out there and the thing was podcasting, I think it was '04 or '05, the name actually came from a guy named Adam Curry, who's like an MTV jockey dude. Yeah. And what pod— Do you know what podcasting actually is?

Tommy: Podcasting. Casting, sending out something.

Josh: Do you know what the actual techno— What's the difference? And this is what people don't really know, right? They think of a podcast as its audio. Yeah, they had audio. You had MP3s, you could fucking download stuff on from servers, all that sort of thing. Podcasting is the technology of using an RSS feed to subscribe to something. So, what it is, is it's like with a blog, you know, you can subscribe to a blog and you can get updates. You can have an RSS reader that reads this. Feed. And so anytime that some new blog post comes from any people that you follow, it's like the OG of fucking social networks.

Tommy: Yeah, it's all— it's pretty— that's a pretty common— there'd probably be people who have lost you there. You could look at it like this: if you use the podcast app through Apple and you hit subscribe, that's just serving as an RSS feed. Uh, yeah, it's a reader RSS feed, so it's sending you Now when you subscribe to the Daily Talk Show, yeah, it'll send you our RSS feed.

Josh: And these proprietary— so iTunes have their specific ones where they're like, you attach within the audio file some metadata so that it can actually display correctly. So that's how it knows where the fucking title goes and all that sort of thing. And so podcasting is really that standard. And iTunes— and so I was listening to podcasts, so it was about '04.

Tommy: And so early, you would—

Josh: how old were you, bro? I was 14. And what I would do—

Tommy: and there was, I remember the app that I Struggling to get 56K out in Berwick.

Josh: Yeah, exactly. It was like, the internet wasn't too bad, but I remember I would—

Tommy: No, it was still shit.

Josh: It was pretty slow, it was pretty slow. The thing is those fuckers are getting NBN before most of these metro places. Anyway, I was just, I remember I was blown away because one of the first, any time these new technologies pop up, it always niches early on to talking, like podcasts When podcasts first launched, it would be people talking about podcasts and it would be technology and it would be reused radio shows that were tech-specific. Because fucking, when all of this happened, Austereos of the world and shit, they're like, they were pushing back. They weren't putting their shit on there to start with, right? And so, but there was a guy in California who had a show Uh, he had a podcast called This Week in Tech, which he started just when all of this podcasting stuff came on. His name's Leo Laporte, and I would listen to him, and he would have a Sunday, a Sunday technology show called The Tech Guy. It was like an AM, imagine like 3 AW. Trevor Long, if anyone knows who Trevor Long is, Trevor Long is like the Australian Leo Laporte. He's really sort of built up that thing, which is like people asking tech questions, and I would just fucking love. I remember being like vividly remember the chills that I would get and so fucking nerdy. I'd be awake at like 2 AM and I've got like my iPod Classic, like I got like the white iPod.

Tommy: Yeah, old school.

Josh: And it's— and I would, you know, you plug it in via FireWire, download the podcast onto the iPod. I remember just listening to the tech guy who's speaking to all these people in California about their tech problems. And I always just thought this was the fucking coolest thing ever. And I remember, and the thing was that it's so funny seeing now because it's all ebbing and flowing and now fucking serial comes out and podcasting's big again.

Tommy: And yeah, it's about the most boring storey you've ever told in this podcast. I got really bored.

Josh: Did you really?

Tommy: Way through it, I tuned out. But this is now something I'm more interested in. You went on a rant, the sugar fucking kicked in, extra gear, you're on to exactly level 4 of your Speedo, could have gone to 6.

Josh: Do you know what we do every fucking time after we do this podcast? I zoom out and look at the waveform, and we have two tracks. One's Tommy and one's mine. I always get fucking annoyed that you just see like these huge chunks where I've just gone off.

Tommy: I'm just gonna pull you up. There is something in finding things first that people love claiming. And I even told you yesterday, one of our avid listeners, BMAC, yeah, one of my good mates who I met in Shepparton, he's Like, I don't, you know, the term futurist I think is a bit fucking fluffy. Yeah, he's, he's got on to some seriously early days music talent.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: And that have just gone on to blow up. Like, he, he's either just got that sound, he knows kind of what's, what's going to work. He's in the scene.

Josh: He's, he's, yeah, he's got a lot of context around it. Yeah.

Tommy: But like, there's— he's got so many photos from him with, you know, DJ Snake, who's huge. You don't know him, but he's massive.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: Like so long ago, just like them hanging out because he went down to Melbourne to see him at this tiny gig with 20, 30 people and now he could sell out shows in Melbourne with his eyes closed. So it's, but, but I even like telling the storey cause I feel like I'm getting something out of him. I saw him first.

Josh: Well, people like feel like it rubs off on them more that it's like, it's an identity thing, right? It's the same as with with Bitcoin. What I find interesting is these things are getting shorter and shorter. So the lifespan of it, yeah, in the sense of like 2014, like, oh man, you were talking about fucking Bitcoin in 2013 or 2014. Fuck, just think if you didn't. And the thing is, it's like, mate, you didn't, you didn't invest. You saw it. And you know what, I know, but it stings even more. It stings even more. Yeah, really. It's that whole thing. I've got a fucking Post-it note, knowing isn't doing. So, listening and so, it's about, I think that an interesting mindset is changing from being a consumer and being like, how can I create? And the thing was that the reason that podcasting went the way it did with me, which is like not really much, like just a bit of a consumer, did some podcasts, was because I was only 14 years old, right? So young. I didn't really have anything to say. I was smoking weed.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: I was like, Last very short storey on this, like Apple, that you know how they've got iLife where they've got all their products, so you know iPhoto and, um, all of that.

Tommy: iCloud. Yeah, yeah.

Josh: So iPhoto and all that used to be, um, called iLife, and it used to be— or sorry, iWork, and it was like an extension. You'd have to pay a bit more. They had a product called iWeb, which where you'd be able to build your own website. Uh, all of this shit doesn't exist anymore, but, uh, iWeb would allow you to create a podcast really easy. So I remember, yeah, '05, '06 having, hey, it's the Josh Janson Show, and it's like, I'm fucking 15, what the fuck am I going to be? I'd be like, ah.

Tommy: So what's the difference in the success of these people? Joe Rogan talking about this yesterday on his podcast, just like, he's like, I'm not doing anything different than most people out there. I'm talking, I'm having conversations, and I just sit down with people It's a time, it's timing. There's this, I mean, it's the perfect storm of everything, right? Because there's a million talented people out there with the funniest podcast ever, but no connection. There's a swell, there's a groundswell, you know. The people start talking, have you seen Joe Rogan? You heard Joe Rogan? And it just like snowballs. It's, it's a phenomenon because we haven't seen it like this in this space at this scale.

Josh: The other weird thing is That's so podcasty with the democratisation of all of this stuff. And it's a fancy way of saying now fucking anyone can do it, right? The interesting thing is that when you were, say, when you were in radio, you would go and you would start at a junior sort of level and then you would have shit shows and you'd work it out. And then one day you're hoping that you would get on a metro station, be in Melbourne or something like that. The thing is, the weirdness of it is we're on the exact same platform as Joe Rogan, the same platform as Russell Brand, the same platform as Hamish and Andy, the same— and the same platform as the fucking boring dude who is creating the worst podcast in the world somewhere in the— somewhere. Yeah. And the thing is that we're all on the same platform. So, the weirdness is you don't have this— there's no, like, all of— with the democratisation of all this stuff, it gets a bit hard. So we don't— you don't really have the excuses. You just need to do. And it's—

Tommy: well, because there's nothing to say that you spending money on developing your intro for your podcast and high production value and getting a good studio is going to bring the success. Because there's— look at how easy we do it, and we sit down with two mics worth $150 each.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: And it sounds amazing. We just pump it out. And so there's no exact formula for the success in this space. And we're trying to hack it a bit, but we're only doing this because we like it. But the downloads we're getting from this, maybe it's because of the consistency that we're putting them out. It's getting rewarded by the platform.

Josh: Yeah. And I think the other thing too, like we don't have—

Tommy: Sorry, I'm just looking out the window. There's this guy struggling so hard with—

Josh: Oh, fuck. Two dogs.

Tommy: It's a bike with a thing on the front of it, like a—

Josh: I'm trying to zoom in to get a photo.

Tommy: It's a bike with a box on the front that's carrying two of these big-ass dogs. That's funny.

Josh: I'm taking a video right now. I wish I could zoom.

Tommy: I love audio, though. I was thinking yesterday, it's like video takes a lot longer to— Say if I have an idea.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: And I want to get to work straight away. There's a few more barriers than like this. I can tell you a story.

Josh: Audio is so fucking easy. You could do a podcast and it would sound fine and it's on your phone.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: And that is as much of an opportunity as it is a threat.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: In the sense of it's a threat to our identity. It's a threat to our excuses. It's a threat to the fact that I can only do it when I have this or when I have that. And it's like, the thing is that the 1DX that I've got sitting here, my new camera that I bought.

Tommy: $8,000. For the body, nothing else.

Josh: That camera is, would be considered, you know, the best camera for YouTube in the world. So, the best YouTubers, the people who are doing the best stuff as a vlogger, as a lifestyle thing is probably using something like this. So, there's this weirdness of it's not like, oh, we need this big fucking crew or like, this is it. I've got all the tools, I've got the, I've got no excuses now. And so that is very confronting for a lot of people.

Tommy: And I've always, for me, I've made all those excuses and I've bought the gear.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: And it's like, you can really say to yourself these excuses, but if the excuse is I don't have the gear, go fucking buy the gear if you can afford it, because then that excuse is gone.

Josh: Do you know what?

Tommy: Watch out that you don't use it again.

Josh: Yeah. I think that it's, uh, if there's barriers and all that sort of thing and you can alleviate them, if that's what's going to be the fucking Barrier. Might as well get rid of it. But I bought the domain name makemorestuff.com. I like it.

Tommy: Make more stuff.

Josh: And I've got the intro chapter, like, so, you know, I like fucking going on tangents.

Tommy: Can I read it? I know you want to, but you've fucking spoken for about 45 minutes on this podcast.

Josh: Man, that annoys me. I wish I didn't. I think it is. The thing is, I want you to read it, but I know that you're going to fuck it up.

Tommy: No, I won't fuck it. I'm good at reading.

Josh: Okay. So, treat it like an audiobook. Okay. Okay.

Tommy: So, this is— So, what is this? Tell me what this is.

Josh: So, this is the intro to, like, imagine like Steal Like an Artist, that Austin Kleon book. Yeah. Similar style. And this— And what I was thinking is each page could have a way of getting around a creative block or a way of— A question that you can ask to try and feed creativity.

Tommy: So, this is the first—

Josh: This is like the first page.

Tommy: Opener of the book.

Josh: Opener. Yeah.

Tommy: And you want to write a book.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: You've been talking about a lot and I hope you do.

Josh: Okay. I don't know, like, I feel like I even struggled reading it because of my handwriting and how I structured it. But there you go.

Tommy: Make more stuff.

Josh: Wait, so read it as if you are on Audible. So, I want you to say, make more stuff written by Josh Janson or by Josh Janson.

Tommy: Josh used to do this with school kids, get them over to read his scripts that he had put together. That's totally true, right?

Josh: Yeah. When I was a kid. Yeah.

Tommy: I just guessed that.

Josh: I didn't do that now. I don't do that now. So, hey kids, come over and read a script.

Tommy: This is an Audible book. This is a free first few pages of Josh's new book.

Josh: Let me just do the very intro. This is Audible. Random House Audio presents Make More Stuff, written by Josh Janson, spoken by Tommy Jackett.

Tommy: What are you waiting for? The stars to align? The perfect opportunity? Maybe the perfect friend to collaborate with? The right weather, the right mood, or just the right idea. What if you stopped waiting? What if you set out to make more stuff? Not perfect stuff, or good stuff, just stuff. Maybe you think there's enough stuff already in the world, and if you're going to make stuff, it better be the best stuff out there.

Josh: Yeah, that's enough. Like, so, but I say stuff like, well, yeah, then I go off a tangent, so I'm still trying to work it out. But yeah, it's—

Tommy: well, I think it's like you— between us, I don't know how interesting this is to other people, but I think there's probably a lot of people who do it or have mates that do it. You, you get started on a lot of stuff.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: And I think there's so much opportunity in what you do because the, the people out there who are doing it have just followed through a bit, a couple more times to chat themselves and, and In this metaphor, shitting yourself is success.

Josh: Yeah, man, if only I lived in a world where shitting yourself was the success point, I'd be fucking Richard Branson. The, um, yeah, it's, uh, it's interesting. Creativity isn't easy, but I think that what inspires you is seeing fucking people who are, who have less opportunity, less skill, less talent, less fucking all of those things and have just done it. Yeah, that's pretty— what inspires you, do you think?

Tommy: Oh, I just— it's me. It's like, it's so uncomfortable. Creativity and making is not a nice process, a nice feeling always, and there's a lot of the uncomfortableness within it. And it's like, I like the struggle. I think I've said that. I feel it's like, it's like this hustle for me is, you know, feeling and thinking about this constantly and sort of seeing it come to fruition and driving down the road after having put in all this work for this video and just having a rush before I've put it out.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: It's like a drug.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: I think that's— and it's a slow burn. It's like, I think about a painter, it takes weeks to make something.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: Months. And I could imagine it's like, you think that's going to be fucking roses the whole time, smelling like roses the whole time, fun, dancing around. It's like, there's times that you don't want to make shit. And I think that is what inspires me, is what is the construction of it and the other side of it. But then also, I think I'm just a sucker for that stuff.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: And I found something that I can invest a lot of my time. It's like I'm a bit ADD, and it's like when I am sitting down to edit, it's like it goes. It's almost like cathartic. It's like a meditation. Be like someone who loves running and loves the feeling of all the pain associated with running. And that's why they are a runner, is all those elements. Because a marathon runner doesn't fucking feel comfortable the whole way through the race, that's for sure.

Josh: It's definitely a paradox. It's this idea of pain. This pain that I'm feeling is actually going to be good. That— and that's even these things around freedom and stuff. Like, parameters are sometimes the best thing that we have. Because we know what game we're playing. It's the difference between having, I guess, like a soccer field with, you know, goals and just being like, being able to— you can kick the ball anywhere. The game makes it the fun bit because otherwise you've got— if there's no— like, you can't define success if you don't have parameters.

Tommy: Yeah. And then the success is pretty rewarding, you know, being, I guess, seen by others to be succeeding. Like, there's all this, you know, there's micro— micro— elements of success that make up the big picture. So it's like, that is one bit, the driving home is one bit. It's like, and I think when one's outweighed, when it's, you're doing too much about other people, because you want other people to pat you on the back, pat you on the back. Yeah. It's like, I want to be famous. You ain't going to be famous. You might, but you need the skill. You need the thing that's going to make you famous first.

Josh: Yeah. And the other thing too, like, think about this podcast. At the beginning, you know, what I like about the fact we haven't gone out with it in a real public way is that we're not relying on any positive feedback. And even there might be some negative feedback or it's like, fuck that. What the fuck is that Josh Jansen about? And the thing is that you can just keep going and keep going and being you and being— And then it fucking works out. And it's like, it's— It's not being married to any feedback, good or bad. It is what it is. Yeah. And you just keep on going.

Tommy: I think we give each other feedback constantly.

Josh: And that's the thing. Like, if you have the real people that are really close to you to do it, they're actually making it.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: There's more weight in it.

Tommy: It's funny, like most of the successful people, the men and women, Brené Brown, you know, Russell Brand, we all look to our partners. And the ones we love, it's like they're the actual biggest influencers of most of the content I create. I make a video, show Amy, she's like, nah. I'm like, yeah, you're right. I've got to get rid of that bit.

Josh: Yeah, absolutely.

Tommy: It's like she's not a video person.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: But I trust her opinion.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: And then it like goes out to the world and people say whatever they do. I've almost been challenging the feedback of others. So for instance, the Obike one, my most successful video to date, attention-wise, view-wise. I made that, and you were a part of that process. Yeah, I was editing, shot it all in a day, edited in a day, and put it out in the same day.

Josh: Yeah, it was great.

Tommy: And I put it out and it was about 3 minutes 30. Seems long. Yeah, for a social media video. And I gave it to— I sent it to Jules Lund, who I value his opinion, um, in this space massively because he's had the experience. And he said to me, you got to cut it down. You got to put it out there. You know, it can't be that long. And I thought, fuck him, why not?

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: Why can't it be that long?

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: And I put it out there that long and it was the best video I've ever fucking made.

Josh: Well, we're all guessing and we're all hypothesising and Jules is taking on his, the radio stuff he's taking on. And the other thing too is it's like, it's, there's for every rule, there's like a counter to that rule. And so it's so instinctual, it's about you determine, like you looking at every case and making a call on it. You can have a system where I don't create any videos longer than 2 minutes, and that might work for you as a strategy.

Tommy: There's a guy, One Minute Docos, he's super famous for it.

Josh: And you can, you can definitely do that, but there's also, I think there's something beautiful and artistic about saying, you know what, fuck the algorithm, fuck what we're told that we need to do. This is, is solid content.

Tommy: Because if I was to look at every one of my successes in the video space, all the videos over 3 minutes.

Josh: Yeah, all of them.

Tommy: And it probably comes down to the idea of each one of them, but it's 3 minutes long. Yeah, and that's why I love this podcast is because we can go on and you can expand on a thought that leads you to another.

Josh: And the thing with this podcast is I don't really know what success looks like, which is quite strange. There's not like a—

Tommy: Money's always been the reward, the success, you know, like radio industry. You get the high-paying job, you get a job and get 50 grand like me. Yeah, fuck all money for what you're doing. And then you get the metro job like a Fee Fee Box, probably over half a million bucks.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: And so that equates to success for a lot of people. But for this, it's like, would you— I don't know, it's a flow-on effect from everything.

Josh: Well, it's the people that you— we're creating something that's missing in the world. And if you think about it, I don't know many other people who are, who are doing this. Who is doing a daily, every weekday show that is fucking honest, that isn't centred around a radio show that's, you know, that has its limitations and that isn't revolving around a guest or being too— Like, I even think about like Joe Rogan and all that sort of thing. He's— I feel like there's an expectation of the types of content that he's producing. I feel like we're playing in a little bit like Joe Rogan is aspirational and he's got all these big world-class people on. But sometimes it's fucking nice to just listen in on people who are fucking just like you or people who are like, maybe you're in fucking Japan listening to us and you're like, I just, I feel like every time I listen to this podcast, I'm in a fucking cafe in Melbourne and I'm listening to these two drongos. What does drongos mean?

Tommy: Drongos. I don't know. Just like a drongo idiot, bogan.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: Who knows?

Josh: Couple of drongos chatting.

Tommy: I mean, if we were as successful as Joe Rogan, we could have Jamie pull it up, have some guy just Googling it for us. What does drongo mean?

Josh: I wonder.

Tommy: Um, yeah, I mean, it doesn't matter. I guess the greatness of this whole space is that if you can go into it truly feeling like you don't give a shit where it goes, it's like, mate, I'm literally— I'm doing a $50,000 job because I was once paid $50,000 for a year. Yeah, to do exactly what we're doing. If I'm doing do it for free.

Josh: If a brand came to us and asked us to do this, it'd be a different story, right?

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: And so I think that that's— if, if you take anything from this conversation, if anyone takes anything, it's like, yeah, there's always going to be reasons why you won't do something. There's, there's no money in it, there's no— like, but if it's something that's in your heart that you want to do, like, we can get super ambitious to the point where everything needs to be fucking have a KPI, and that needs to be connected it into some success metric. What about just like fucking having fun? And what I think, I've said this to you before, it sort of feels like this is something that Josh as a 16-year-old would do, right? With him, with his mate. But the thing is that I, uh, it's just this play. It's we're having fun, we're being playful, we're not giving a fuck. And I think that that's exciting, and it beats like potentially if we were given a show on radio.

Tommy: Oh no, what that would do. Struggle. Yeah, do that stuff again when it's— yeah, it's so refreshing having conversations about whatever you want whenever you want with the person you want. Yeah, not the person you're assigned. Yeah, it has a time and place, but I think this is the space. I just want to tell you a quick storey before you finish off. I become more emotional as a man that's got a child. Okay, I had this moment yesterday Fuck, it was so good. And this is what it's like, you'll never understand until you have a kid, and I hope you do one day because it was the fucking best thing. Well, I sort of have a kid. You're not my son's father.

Josh: I'm his second dad, we've said this.

Tommy: Yeah, Josh asked me yesterday, if you and Amy die, would you be happy for Bree and I to have Bodhi?

Josh: I was telling Bree that I said—

Tommy: Because I'll be dead, I wouldn't be able to tell you that.

Josh: I told Bree that I said that we'll do it. And she actually like gave me like— The go-ahead? No, pushback. Pushback? She's like, we're not even planning on having our own fucking kid. We're not equipped for this.

Tommy: So, you might never feel this feeling.

Josh: Yeah. So, who are the godparents?

Tommy: Ryan and Steph, Amy's best friend.

Josh: Okay, sure. Love them. Yeah.

Tommy: But they're not a couple.

Josh: Uh-huh.

Tommy: Do you know who my godfather is?

Josh: It's a director.

Tommy: Famous.

Josh: Famous director. You know, I'm not good with names.

Tommy: Simon Wincer.

Josh: Simon Wincer. Do you know what?

Tommy: He directed Free Willy, baby. One of the Crocodile Dundee movies.

Josh: Free Willy wasn't a fucking Crocodile Dundee movie.

Tommy: I didn't say that. One of the Crocodile Dundee movies.

Josh: As a separate point. Also, you know what I've got here?

Tommy: Elephant Dumbo drop.

Josh: 501 movie directors. I've got the book here. What's his name?

Tommy: Simon Wincer.

Josh: Let's see if he's a— Oh, Andy Warhol. Wowee. Look at that. Andy Warhol. Chelsea Girls. The poster for that's quite—

Tommy: Jesus.

Josh: Quite full-on. Uh, say his name again.

Tommy: Simon Wintzer. The Cup, the latest film.

Josh: Okay, you keep talking.

Tommy: Funny thing, I hadn't seen him in like 15, 20 years.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: And I was on the red carpet. I was going to do reporting at his film premiere, The Cup, and I was like, fuck, I better give my godfather a call before I just confront him on the red carpet. So I called him out of the blue.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: He's, oh man, he's old school. We should get him on. Oh, you know what he directed? The Man from Snowy River.

Josh: Oh, that's good, isn't it?

Tommy: One of the iconic Australian films. Winster? Winster. W-I-N-C-E-R.

Josh: Okay. W-I, yeah. I can't see it.

Tommy: My mum went to primary school with his ex-wife.

Josh: Oh, that's cool.

Tommy: And so, she was my godmother and he's my godfather. Anyway, you look for that. The storey yesterday, I went to pick up Bodhi.

Josh: It'd be very weird if he wasn't in this book, don't you think? 501 directors and the guy who made fucking Free Willy isn't here. I don't know how to read index books, so it's very difficult. I'm sorry.

Tommy: Josh, as the tech kid who's been on the internet since he was fucking 12 years old.

Josh: I'd press Command+F and I'd fucking type in his name. None of this fucking bullshit.

Tommy: Anyway, Bodhi, went to pick him up from daycare. Amy was going out for dinner, so it was just me and them. Mean the little man for the night. And I got there and dude, a kid fucking seeing your face and there's something in you, it's like, it is selfish, I know, it's what you've talked about.

Josh: No, it's not fucking selfish.

Tommy: No, no, no, but like having somebody, this little person, like look at you and then just fucking crawl towards you. And I got down on my knees and he came towards me and he stood up and he just put his arm around me and he held my shoulder and just put his face on me and just stayed there, just hugging me with his arm around. He's so small, dude.

Josh: Like, help me, they've been hitting me at the top.

Tommy: It is the most— like, the feeling, I cannot fucking describe it. It's just your heart's fucking just exploding.

Josh: That's why people get dogs as well, right? Yeah, because dogs are good like that.

Tommy: Yeah, but I don't think they're the same. I think there'll be elements of it.

Josh: Cause people get real fucking sad when their dog— But how— What sort of a dog owner were you?

Tommy: I mean, the thing is, I was always envious of my dad because he— The one that feeds the dog is usually the one that the dog loves the most.

Josh: That's so true, isn't it? And so— Does Bodhi like you or your, um, Amy more?

Tommy: He loves both of us. And that's what I— He loves his mum so much because she made him.

Josh: Who stops him cry?

Tommy: Mum's good at it. We both can though.

Josh: Simon Winster isn't in this book.

Tommy: No, no, no. Anyway, look him up, Simon Winster. I just want to drop that. It's my godfather. We should get him on the show. Yeah, it'd be— We could.

Josh: So, how much banter? Like, is it awkward banter with him? Or you get— I mean, you don't have awkward banter with anyone.

Tommy: No, I think the thing about us getting guests on this podcast is going to be, unfortunately, fucking just being a bit weird and awkward. It's like, no, they're entering the space that we've created.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: And so it's like, what are we talking about? I don't know, let's just fucking get going. Yeah, because conversation flows and that's how it happens.

Josh: Have a lot of questions about Free Willy, like about the whales and how they do it all.

Tommy: I do. Many knew, um, Paul Hogan, like he's— he—

Josh: I know Paul Hogan. When I say no, certainly Crocodile Dundee. Well, no, uh, like I, I actually worked on— I've worked with Paul Hogan We did a special, the Paul Hogan Show special. And yeah, I was a camera assistant, so not that well.

Tommy: But Shane—

Josh: No, no, not at all. Shane Jacobson, who I am friends with, is friends with him. So, one step removed. I mean, Paul and I don't have that much in common. But I remember when the whole tax— Oh, can I just leave you on this tax thing? I asked my accountant about like, oh, man, He did all of our tax return shit. It was amazing. I was like, I just want to understand this stuff more. Like, we've got sort of different layers of company stuff and fucking trusts and all this sort of shit. I was just like, oh, I'd love to like learn, like understand this more. Can you recommend any books or resources? And he said, we've had people who have been at uni for 4 years and still don't understand. So, no, isn't that such an awful, like, feeling though? Like, but I feel like there is— I'm sure if I was on the ATO, oh, can you tell me about, um, this specific thing?

Tommy: No, you need specific.

Josh: And so that's the thing, right? It's like, okay, healthy stuff, where the fuck do you start? But if it's like, I think I could go in and learn everything there is to know about discretionary trusts and then fucking asset management or something, what you found is the pain point for him because his business is basically doing this for others, not in—

Tommy: he's not in the business of teaching others this stuff. Yeah, but I get it, I get it. You're just— you're annoying.

Josh: I am a bit.

Tommy: You're fucking annoying.

Josh: It's like the clients who ask, you know, who get real in the nitty-gritty. Yeah, some are great, some are like really like want to understand the camera and shit like that. Yeah, yeah. But it's also nice having the other ones that just trust you and hiring you.

Tommy: They get out of the way to let the pro do it. It's cool either way. Anyway, happy Friday.

Josh: Yeah, enjoy your weekend. And, uh, on Monday I guess we can talk about Bodhi's birthday.

Tommy: Oh yeah, first birthday party Saturday.

Josh: Is it Saturday? Is it? Oh yeah, that's right. Yeah, I can't wait. Anyway, bye guys.

Tommy: Bye.