Gross marketing techniques

Tommy: The Daily Talk Show, Episode 18.

Josh: G'day everyone, it's Josh and Tommy here, and it is Wednesday.

Tommy: Yes, hey, jump straight into it. Elon Musk. Yeah, what a fucking weapon.

Josh: Yeah, this—

Tommy: what do you think of that guy?

Josh: Yeah, I think he's, uh, super interesting. I think the thing that I've been noticing of late is I have this fear that I'm very out of touch. I don't really, uh I'm not really reading media. Like, I used to get really into technology media and news and following all the blogs. I don't do it as much. So, I feel like some people talk to me about these things, stuff like crypto and shit.

Tommy: Him as a person, though, like, I guess even if you don't look into him, which I don't, but I still get a good sense of what he's like.

Josh: He's doing cool shit and he's— Have you read his book?

Tommy: No, I haven't. Is it on the audiobook subscription that you have that I am access?

Josh: You can listen to it. Yeah, it's a great book. It's not an autobiography. It's— the interesting thing is here you've got a guy who's doing fucking amazing things, who, whose personal life is fucked. Like, he's just like—

Tommy: He's had 3 wives.

Josh: Yeah, he just—

Tommy: Lots of kids.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: Crazy.

Josh: And he's a billionaire.

Tommy: You win some, you lose some. Yeah, I remember you telling me about his ex-wife talking. Oh no, no, no. Actually, I've read this article. His ex-wife said what it's like to, uh, what it takes to be a billionaire. And she wrote this thing about how much he works and how fucked up he is, but his mindset.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: He'd be an absolute powerhouse. Like you can imagine that dude not sleeping much and just working for extensive amount of time. He just launched two rockets, biggest rocket ever. By a massive number.

Josh: It's all the landing and shit that they get excited about, too, right?

Tommy: Well, they used to just send the rocket up. So, it's like, I don't get it all, but there's two rockets and then there's like the ship or whatever they're sending up and they shoot up. So, the rockets send out their power, rocket power, and they go up, but then they detach from the ship and then they fall down into the ocean.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: Whereas He's like, it's too expensive, or their team's like, he's— it's too expensive, we're going to send them back down and actually have them, have them reusable.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: And so that's that. It looks— and I don't know if you've ever seen this, look it up— they cut them, the rockets coming back down to Earth and landing on the exact spot they took off from.

Josh: It's like it's filmed in reverse or something.

Tommy: Literally looks like it's in reverse because it's like, how does this long object that's only being powered from the bottom, it seems, come down on its arse.

Josh: I don't understand. I'm so fascinated by all of this stuff.

Tommy: Rocket science.

Josh: Rocket science. No fucking idea. And I follow heaps of geeks on social media and I haven't been reading up on all this stuff, but I just get glimpses where it's like, I saw that they, I think they were planning on one rocket that wasn't reusable and then just so happened that it was fucking fine at the end of it. So, they went and like, Collected it.

Tommy: So, he said, um, old mate Elon sent one of his Tesla cars, a Roadster, in the ship up into space. And so, now there's like, I think it was his personal car or like one of his cars, a Tesla going through space. I don't know if the photo is legit, but it was like they put a spaceman into it, a fake spaceman into the Roadster. Was that real?

Josh: I don't know.

Tommy: From the description, it looked like it's real. Anyway, the reason I bring up Elon is because I love him. Yeah, but it's also like he's the branding guru. Like, he, he— I mean, he's, he's at the forefront of media all the time. Yeah, because he's playing in such a huge space and he's got so much money, so much riding on it in this space of— in the space of space is like you're a pioneer. Yeah, because he's not doing it if you don't have the money. Anyway, he, um He's done a few things that have been like really good branding ops, which I wanted to talk about because I've seen some people doing some pretty gross ones. Yeah, and I think Elon's is like up there with some of the best. Okay, you're sending your car, your brand in a spacecraft out of space, like it's fucking crazy, right?

Josh: Holden's not doing that.

Tommy: So you're not thinking this is a bit gross, but I saw this video, this dude who's like a Self-made millionaire. And I've got nothing against him. I actually like— He's got a souvlaki chain.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: Have we eaten one of those souvlakis? St Kilda, he's got like Souvlaki JR.

Josh: I like how you say souvlaki.

Tommy: Souvlaki.

Josh: Souvlaki. Do you have to do the accent? Maybe.

Tommy: I love souvlaki.

Josh: How do you say croissant?

Tommy: Croissant.

Josh: Is that how you really say it?

Tommy: I do not. Croissant.

Josh: I say croissant.

Tommy: Anyway. Croissant.

Josh: Souvlaki guy.

Tommy: He's got a Souvlaki JR shop.

Josh: And did he send a souvlaki up into space? No, no.

Tommy: So, he's also, as an entrepreneur, you got 40 things going on. Yeah. He's also very much into cryptocurrency. He drives around in Bentleys and Lamborghinis. And so, like, I don't quite know where he made his money from. His name's Sam, and I actually met him in the souvlaki shop. And how he comes across online seemed really like confident and sort of like owning this space. And then when I met him, I didn't get the vibe. I was really taken aback because I was like, oh, hey man, I follow you online. I somehow came across your stuff. It's very basic conversation, but he was— he seemed humble. I just was like, that's— it's not who I thought you'd be.

Josh: Sure. So it's a— what you're describing is the detachment between the external version of him within a branding or marketing space versus what he's like in real life.

Tommy: And I should have known that because I don't It's not like he's— I didn't feel like you've really deceived me from what it is, but it's like, I get that people aren't always, you know—

Josh: But I think it's more rare now. I think that maybe, you know, 10 years ago it was okay to be like, oh, the person on Hey Hey It's Saturday, you know, I saw him in the street and he was a piece of shit and didn't, you know, I think that that's okay.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: Whereas now with social media, we should probably be getting more sort of authentic.

Tommy: I get it. And in fairness, he is around his mates and stuff in the video, so he's probably a lot more comfortable than some 6-foot-2 weirdo.

Josh: And you don't realise too how much your perception, like people are pulling from what you're saying. It's like the comment that you got, I've got to write back to Dale, actually, that Dale guy who wrote to you about a video that you and I were in, and he was saying how different I was on your video versus mine. And you forget that people don't know you day to day, and all they have to judge you on is this one micro piece of content, you know.

Tommy: And so, Sam has a Bitcoin ATM business that you can buy cryptocurrency.

Josh: Oh, yeah. Through—

Tommy: They just look like an everyday ATM. Yeah. But it's called Bitcoin ATM or Bit ATM, I can't remember. Anyway, he's rolled out thousands of these across Australia. One's in Chadstone. There's one in his souvlaki shop in St. Kilda. And so you can actually put your card in and buy cryptocurrency. And so, I mean, I don't— it's funny, like you see these people online that looks like they got a lot of money, drive these cars, but you don't quite get it. Like even Jack Delosa, a guy I'm mates with, he's got the entourage. Entrepreneur school and he's made, he was on the BRW rich list under 30.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: I still don't quite know where he made his money. Maybe he's making his money now, but it's, it's a funny thing. I think this flaunting, and not that Jack does it, this other guy, I think Sam flaunts his money a lot more, flaunts his wealth, but it can shadow or can overshadow what you actually, how you actually made it.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: Because I mean, all you're getting is like short bits of people's time to tell them about something. And which, if you're just saying, cheque out this Bentley, they're not really getting the other stuff.

Josh: And it's also, I think that maybe that happens with like, there's a lot of unattractive ways of making money.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: So, maybe it's his way of like, maybe he doesn't want to be the souvlaki guy. If you don't want to be the souvlaki guy, you want to be the Rolls-Royce and bling-bling.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: What sort of rich person do you think you would be?

Tommy: I think—

Josh: Where would you put your money?

Tommy: Oh, I'd definitely be travelling a lot. I'd be all over the joint, down my beach house a lot. I'd have a nice car.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: And definitely a sports car of some sort. But then I'd have just shit, like shitloads of fucking electric skateboards, all the latest. I'd get like an electric unicycle if I could.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: Have some farm, I reckon. Lots of toys. Anyway, I digress. Sam, posted this video where he was feeding the homeless. And it's— and already you could— I saw the look on your face. Videos of anyone going out to feed the homeless that then features on your YouTube channel.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: It can say something about somebody's type of personality or type of thinking behind the content they're creating.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: I would never go and post that. And I just feel like maybe it wouldn't be coming from my Heart. Maybe it's coming from this guy Sam's heart. He's feeding the homeless and putting these meals next to them. And then there was lots of shots of a big truck that had his Bitcoin ATM signage on it.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: And I was thinking that, I mean, this big comparison between Elon Musk and a video that features feeding the homeless, but also your van.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: I was thinking, fuck, it's hard. I didn't think it— I felt like maybe it was a subtle marketing tactic.

Josh: That's— Yeah, I think it's gross. I mean, falling short. Yeah, I think like I've got friends who would donate a few hundred thousand dollars a year to different causes. They don't talk about it. Yeah. And they're specific around not talking about it. And I think that And even when I've, you know, been in those types of communications, you know, I've worked alongside them before and being in meetings, they push back on any of that. I remember thinking about one idea, which is such a shit. This is a gross, lazy idea that I had. I was like, you know what? I thought this would be fun, but I think it's just a bit degrading. I was like, what if you decided to do a, you know, The Big Issue.

Tommy: The magazine.

Josh: Yeah, the magazine. It's The Big Issue's big day off. And what we do is we go around and buy every Big Issue from every person and they just can have the fucking day off. Yeah. But it defeats the purpose of they're doing this because they want to fucking work and earn their money.

Tommy: So, what is The Big Issue? Underprivileged Or not underprivileged, people who have been struggling to find work.

Josh: Yeah, they can make a bit of coin. And the idea is like rather than fucking handouts, they want to be able to give some form of value. And then there's some equation where it's like $6.50 or whatever, and then $3 goes to them.

Tommy: I've got to tell you, this is going off, but the big issue, there's a guy that sits in St. Kilda just near my house on the sort of entrance into the supermarket.

Josh: Supermarket.

Tommy: Fuck. You're just pulling me up on my pronunciation of every word.

Josh: Nah, that's fine.

Tommy: Anyway, this guy, he's lovely, but I think he's on heroin.

Josh: Okay, sure.

Tommy: Not always on heroin.

Josh: He can be lovely and be on heroin, can't you? Or no?

Tommy: Well, they kind of— You're a bit lost when you're on the heroin.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: As in you're absent from consciousness, essentially. Sometimes I've literally seen him holding the Biggie Shoos, sitting down. And asleep. What, like in— on the— it's called on the nod as a heroin addict. It's like they're literally just rocking back and forth and kind of coming in and out of consciousness, it seems. And then some days he's like totally straight. Yeah, he looks like he's had a hard life.

Josh: Yeah, sure.

Tommy: But he puts in the work, man. Like, he's always there and he has—

Josh: because he can't get up, he's fucking on the nod.

Tommy: Turns out he lives over in like, um, the other side of the West Gate Bridge.

Josh: Really?

Tommy: Would take him an hour to get there. Point of the story, Amy, my wife, talks to him a lot, and he has a lizard now. He's got a blue tongue lizard on his lap, and we were talking to him about this lizard. I said, mate, where'd you get the lizard? Found it.

Josh: Fuck off.

Tommy: Found it on the ground in the middle of the road. It had nearly been run over, or it had been run over, its tail had come off. Stumpy tail. Looks a bit like your thumb, actually.

Josh: Toe thumb.

Tommy: Toe thumb. And he's just got this blue tongue lizard that he's just patting.

Josh: Well, that's nice.

Tommy: And he said, yeah, it was injured. I took it home and now it's my friend.

Josh: And if it licks, if you lick it, it makes you high. I don't know.

Tommy: I said, what's its name?

Josh: No, and caveat, joke about it, all that sort of thing. Fucking, like, people have hard lives. Fucking awesome that he's like, Trying to do shit and it really puts you off. Do you think that it gives you, him having the lizard, do you think that provides a little bit of more humanity to him? Like, do you feel like as a person you're more empathetic or sympathetic to him because you're like, oh, he's got a pet, he's like us, versus when you're on the nod rocking, you're like, how the fuck? Like, you can't relate to that.

Tommy: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I definitely think because we stopped for a conversation with him. Yeah. And Amy thought, thinks he's really nice. And he told us that he— I said, "Do you have a name for the lizard?" He said, "It's Draugo." I said, "Oh." Draugo. Draugo. Draugo or something like that. And he said, "Yeah, I— When I found him, I called him Draugo, but then I realised that the name I was actually wanting was Drogo, the guy from Game of Thrones." And I stuffed it up, but I just kept the first one that I went with.

Josh: So funny. It was funny.

Tommy: It's a bit of a marketing thing.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: That's him. That's him hustling with his marketing technique of having a lizard on his lap.

Josh: What a quirky dude.

Tommy: It was very—

Josh: And the funny thing is not much difference in regards to life as him and Hughesy. You take one turn, you know, like Hughesy was like fucking struggling and You know, he talks about his Centrelink storey and now he's got a fucking shows coming out of his—

Tommy: He lives 200 metres from my house.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: In a lovely home.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: Yeah, it's fascinating. But I mean, the gross marketing techniques, do you think if we were to dissect the thinking behind someone like Sam, that guy I'm mentioning doing the homeless handouts.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: Where do you think the mindset is in going and actually executing something like that?

Josh: Well, I think anyone who is doing what, by the sounds of it, he's doing, there might be a lack of self-awareness, understanding where you fit within the broader space that is like our society. So, if you're around all of these things, if you're around other people who like these cars and pat you on the back and sort of promote that, then it doesn't feel too out of place. Maybe it's that. Yeah, I think it's because I don't think we want it to— If he's sending a good message, that's great. I think it's the same thing. I can get disenfranchised with charities where you're like, how much fucking— Like, I've had, you know, not-for-profits contact me and they've had big fucking budgets for something and they've had more money to spend than a corporate. I feel a bit off about it because I feel like, well, fuck, I wouldn't want my money being used this way if I was doing it. But the thing is, I think what we need to realise is it's like we shouldn't let that overshadow the good part. So, charities are moving something forward and it's positive. And it's the same with social enterprises, right. You could, you could do the numbers on a social enterprise and be like, that'd be way fucking better rather than paying all of their employees and all. Like, if a social enterprise essentially is a company with an extra line which says that the profits go to, you know, the causes. The thing is that, and that's a very simplified version of it, the thing is that profits are obviously after you pay everyone, you pay for your marketing and all that sort of thing. So, if you decide that as a social enterprise you might spend heaps and heaps of money on marketing, on employees, and be turning $500 profit a year, which you then give to people. And I think that the thing is that any— or the other example is the, you know, you buy this packet of chips and every packet of chips you buy, 5 cents goes to the—

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: And then you work it out like, well, What about if I buy the packet of chips that I want and I just give 5 cents? I think the point is that if you can have a premium product that people are going to buy anyway, and I think this is Thankyou, you know, water and all the Thankyou ranges' point is speaking to the guy who sort of helps source their products. And he was saying that they specifically their hand soap, he was saying that— It's good hand soap.

Tommy: Thank you, hand soap.

Josh: Yeah. So, that's what he was saying. He was saying, It's actually, they're outperforming Dove, I think, now. Like, they're like huge. And the thing is, part of the reason is it is a premium product. When they went to the manufacturer, they said, okay, we've got these, this version with these ingredients and this type of thing. It's all fucking paraffin-free or all of the shit that you don't, you know, the things that you don't want in the product. They don't have all that stuff. So, it's a really high-end product. So, what they were saying is that most of the companies won't touch it because the margins aren't as good. So, the thing is that while, say, another company might be making 80% on every bottle sold, Thankyou can afford to make 30% or something like that. And so, what they're able to do is they— if you're playing in the social enterprise space, they've talked about the fact that they need to actually create something that's way better, that's in the market already. So, if they're competing with Carmen's muesli bars, they need to have a muesli bar that's better than Carmen's for people to make the purchase, because people associate charity and social enterprise and stuff with a lesser of a product. So, my point being that if it's, if you're moving something forward, then you're better off, like, then it's fine. I think that it's obviously a bit different to what this guy's doing, which is a PR stunt or what I used to hate in the early days of social media, which is like, for every like that you, you know, give us, we're going to donate X to X. And it's just like, you know what?

Tommy: I don't think you're allowed to do that stuff anymore. Yeah.

Josh: If you've got $10,000 and that's how much you're giving, just give it. Just give it. Yeah.

Tommy: I mean, this is where the fine line of that guy, Sam, his heart might have been in the right place and he genuinely wants to help the homeless, like a lot of people do.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: But did you need to wrap it in that?

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: And that's where it's, you know, that. If you were to dissect what they're getting out of it, engagement, and maybe they look at it as like we're paying. Say we get $10,000 to give, we get 10,000 likes. That's going to give us a lot of engagement to our page, which then will do— it's like we've paid $10,000. It's like we've actually got something out of the $10,000 where the point of giving is not to receive. It's like you're giving.

Josh: Yeah, absolutely.

Tommy: Don't need to share.

Josh: I mean, and everyone, like, it's a, it's It's a strategy which I think can play really well. It can be bad. A lot of the airlines have done it, right? Like during Christmas time where they'll, you know, I remember one airline doing like people arrived at their baggage claim area to all presents wrapped and they were, I think that they may have—

Tommy: They wrapped their bags just getting their bags back.

Josh: Exactly.

Tommy: What was the point of it? So, they had each bag—

Josh: So, they basically, I think they'd worked out somehow what all the passengers wanted. Yeah. Through some sort of clever survey or some shit.

Tommy: And then they gave it to them. Yeah. Interesting. Well, it's like the charity aspect of what I did. Would I get tried for that?

Josh: Oh, yeah. You're a stinky bastard. You've done this exactly. So, what's the difference?

Tommy: You were the one that I said, I think I said it to you. Oh, I was going on Sunrise and I thought it'd be funny to get t-shirts made up of Obikes on a fishing hook. Because I was talking about o-bike fishing, and then I said, oh, maybe I could sell these. And I think you said, nah, it's gross, you can't sell them. You've either got to do it. Well, I think that the money away.

Josh: The point was that I'm like, how much, how much money are you gonna make on these t-shirts? Uh, and what is the reason for you doing it? And it was like you wanted to make something that was funny that people bought. And I think that I was like, you know what, if you sell it as that, you might make a few more sales.

Tommy: Yeah, yeah.

Josh: And it's like, and then you can just, it's a fun exercise and it sort of takes out the sale. But in saying that, I think that so many people default to that now. It becomes, it's becoming such a common thing.

Tommy: Well, I think our thinking or your thinking behind it was right. I got a lot more sales of the shirts.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: And fuck, it took me a lot of time and cost me more than I made. But we still were able to sell more and donate more.

Josh: It's a talking point.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: Which I think helps.

Tommy: But was my— Was that gross at all? Do you think there's any grossness in that?

Josh: Nah, I think that's fine. I think it's— I mean, you can fucking deconstruct everything. And I mean, I think that's the point with this guy too. Like, I think as we see more success and stuff, I think we probably build more and more empathy for these people because we'll realise that You know, will be more aligned in the sense of, oh, you know, you can see how this can happen. You can see it might have been their fucking PR agency, which is like, oh, we want to do this thing. And he's like, fuck, I would love to be able to feed the homeless. And then they've taken one step too far to the left or right or whatever it is. And then they've—

Tommy: So, maybe it's around idea, because I remember seeing the YouTubers feeding the homeless years ago, and I didn't have the feeling of that's gross. In the very early days, it's like, oh yeah, fuck, that guy just bought $200 worth of Maccas and he's feeding all these people. That's kind of interesting.

Josh: I don't like— What I don't like is using, using those opportunities as a form of entertainment. I don't like this idea. We were even talking about Casey Neistat, who made a video of him taking his friend to the Super Bowl, who was a big Patriots Patriots fan. Is it Patriots? Yeah. And it builds this beautiful storey of this Patriots fan who doesn't fucking leave his town much. In one way, it's like really nice and endearing. Another way, it's sort of positioning his mate as a little bit of a fucking hermit. I don't know if you watched the last video.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: It's like, oh, Tony is in a helicopter for the first time. It's like a fucking Make-A-Wish Foundation. I know.

Tommy: There was a disconnect between how it comes across. I think from being in, in the radio stuff, doing, um, headline-esque content. Yeah, we think about the idea of the video from an overview point or a headline angle, and you can get a sense of what the video is going to be about. Sometimes you can sell in some really good shit, and I can't remember the example, but I just had this moment where I was like Great title, great idea, but the way it's going to play out is horrible.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: So, it's like in, in creativity—

Josh: Jez Khan and I did the Day of Just Giving.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: Which was flawed in the sense of we're trying to film this thing like we want to create content that inspires other people to do great things.. And so, it was just like Jez going around asking people if they need help with anything. He ends up assisting a first aid class, all these different things. But the— because you don't want your content to get in the way of the message. I think SoulPancake, a YouTube channel started by Rainn Wilson, the guy from The Office, he Does a really— Their content does a really good job of doing uplifting content without it being too fucking gross. Gross. Yeah.

Tommy: What's an example? Just an overview of a video.

Josh: An example would be so, and it's not tied into any specific charity, but they would do something where it's like they would have a phone booth. Where it's like ring someone you haven't rung in a while and, you know, tell someone that you love. And they have a phone there and they have the cameras pointing and they basically like they make the call. And, you know, and you have this beautiful moment of it's like, oh, Dad. Oh, hey. It's like, oh, yeah, I was just like, I'm in this phone booth and I thought I would just like ring and say hi and say that I love you and It's like these nice moments.

Tommy: Dude, we made this video when I was working for KISS FM for Matt and Jane, I think it was, just the breakfast show. I was making the videos and the idea, thinking back on it and, you know, like I think I had to remove myself a bit because my job was to film and edit a video.

Josh: Yeah. You're a shit kicker that's just implementing the strategy that's being passed down.

Tommy: And It was almost like what we talked about yesterday is higher up or like things like photo shoots, the people organising them could come across as being a bit racist where they're just like, we need an Asian, we need an African, we need— It's like they're just totally typecasting because that's their job to work it out. Anyway, this is almost of a similar-esque. This woman was dying, had terminal cancer and she was probably gonna die in a couple of months. She could be dead right now.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: Who, yeah, she had this young boy and, um, and they had money to give to this. It was like a Make-A-Wish kind of thing. Yeah, the radio station. And so we got this woman in to sit in the boardroom because she thought she was gonna talk to Matt and Jane. And then, um, she didn't know, but her kid, this young 8-year-old, came into the studio Yeah. And he had written a letter to his mum and they got his— they got this kid to read out the letter to Matt and Jane.

Josh: Like a fucking ransom note. Yeah, go on.

Tommy: And then—

Josh: You read the fucking letter and your mum gets her cash.

Tommy: The mum's in the boardroom not knowing anything that her kid's even in the building. And then all of a sudden the boardroom televisions go on and it's broadcasting. The kid reading this letter into the boardroom. And so, the mum's watching their kid.

Josh: Who was with the kid? Who was his guardian? Okay.

Tommy: So, it was okay in that respect. Fuck, it makes me sad, man, thinking back to this.

Josh: And what was the mum's reaction?

Tommy: Oh, fucking, she was crying. She's—

Josh: Do you think she was— Was it happy tears?

Tommy: I don't know, man. You're dying. It's like— Feeling horrible and seeing your kid, like, it makes me so fucking sad right now.

Josh: Getting off on this. Yes, it's like, oh, this, like, we're all listening in your cars and you're, ah, this is all fine, like, oh, just getting up like a sad movie, but it's a reality and someone is fucking dying.

Tommy: Like, I'm not pointing the finger at anybody for coming up with the idea, or it's probably the executive producer. Man, it's like when content becomes the, you know, the driver and then humans are fucking the secondary thing, someone's feelings.

Josh: It's a phrase that we always talk about, which is all for content.

Tommy: All for content. That was an all for content moment where this kid got to go, I think, yeah, they flew them up to the Gold Coast and went to the theme parks and it was family time. And that was their gift.

Josh: Getting flown to the Gold Coast. I think the gift is getting the fucking flight out.

Tommy: But so, they did something I wanted to do together as a family. Oh, that's right. We sent them to SeaWorld, I think, and they got to swim with the dolphin and like—

Josh: Sure. We've talked about this before about sick people doing Disneyland and Disney World. And as I said, if I ever get sick, just don't fucking send me there.

Tommy: I know, for you, you've been there though. So, you know, you've wasted all your money.

Josh: I just feel like if you were sick and you were going for the first time, I guess you can't, you would never feel underwhelmed, would you? Yeah. Do you reckon there's anyone who was sick, they do the Make-A-Wish, do their whole big thing and they're like, this is fucked.

Tommy: Of course, because everything that you don't have is better in your head than what it actually is in real life.

Josh: But maybe I think Make-A-Wish and all that sort of thing, like, I think you just have a different perspective on life. So, everything becomes like just spending time. Maybe it's more about being with the family and all that sort of thing. And I think maybe the thing with Disneyland is, or Disney World. Disneyland is actually better than Disney World. Disneyland is the one in California.

Tommy: Right, mate. You're talking about people how they shouldn't go there if they're dying. It's a bit fucking rich to be sitting there saying, "Oh, which one's better? Because I went there. I paid to go there." I made the decision.

Josh: It's a bit dark, isn't it?

Tommy: It is. I'm sorry to bring you down, but bring it down. But the all for content thing, I think it does play back into the food, Elon Musk.

Josh: All for content. Alright. My favourite all for content storey is what we did for your proposal video. Do you remember? Yeah. Do you want to explain?

Tommy: So, all for content. I think this embodies it in a light way. It's what happens with movies. Okay, I won't justify it. I made a video that was of my wife, of me proposing to my now wife, Amy.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: And I filmed it on a little shitty camera and I made it feel like there was nothing going on. It wasn't like some big capturing of a moment. Watch it. It's like, I mean, I went to this spot in this place in Sydney, maybe 30 or 40 times. And each time I went there from the moment, I think it was the first weekend I went up to see her, I put the camera in this spot on this bench and it's filming us sitting down.

Josh: Did you know at that point that High Five Ever Proposed, like that?

Tommy: I think I just saw someone else do something where it was like camera in the same spot and I was like, oh, I can do that. Early days, you kind of just copying ways of creating videos. And then Probably a month into it, I was like, oh, if I'm ever going to propose, it would be this spot.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: And sure enough, I conned Amy into coming up to Sydney. She didn't have any idea and blah, blah, blah. And I put the camera in this spot and I filmed and I got down on one knee and I said, will you marry me, darling?

Josh: And it was a really beautiful moment. And the thing, what you showed me the edit and the feedback that I had was, mate, you can't fucking hear you talk because you've got the waves crashing.

Tommy: And it was shitty audio.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: Recording on the little camera, it was an old camera. What was your suggestion then?

Josh: So, I'm like, mate, just fucking do what Hollywood do and just ADR it. And ADR is like adding dialogue after the fact. So, sure enough, Tommy, what'd you do? I got my—

Tommy: I said to Amy, Amy, I'm gonna have to get you to, when I say, and I'm recording this on my iPhone, will you marry me, darling? Can you just say yes?

Josh: And she does a little, "Yes!" So she recorded it after the fact in post-production, and that is in the final video, and it fucking works a treat.

Tommy: You can't tell, and it was one take from Amy because she was in a shitty mood or something. She was shitty with me.

Josh: Yeah, there's nothing more romantic than when you're fighting to be like, "Babe, can you just reenact that moment for me, YouTube?" That moment that was beautiful. Fuck, I love that story.

Tommy: That was probably, that's probably the awful content moment I've gone to.

Josh: Mate, I love all the content. I had a friend ask me the other day, do you ever just want to do something and not fucking capture it and record it? I don't think so. I think like the thing is that there's this idea that say with the travelling that Bri and I are going to do very soon, that like, oh, switch off, don't do it. I think I'd get fucking bored.

Tommy: Yeah, you will.

Josh: Out of my mind very quickly.

Tommy: I've said to you like Christmas time, I had more fun at Christmas filming that I would have not filmed because it's—

Josh: I filmed my nana's funeral, fucking live streamed it. You should have seen how much data I was using because I was using, I was—

Tommy: All for content, film granny's funeral.

Josh: Yeah, absolutely. It was high definition upload, like on YouTube Live for my brother to watch it who was living in the US, who still is there.

Tommy: So, it wasn't like out there for randoms to see.

Josh: No, I mean, you could, I could just give the link to anyone, But the— I only had 3 people watching, but it was just something for me to do as well. But every 6 minutes I got a text message from Telstra saying I'd used a gig of data.

Tommy: Wow.

Josh: I used like—

Tommy: Getting charged $10. How many gigs did you use?

Josh: I think it cost me $150.

Tommy: Okay.

Josh: And but I was like, you know what? Worth it for Granny. Yeah, exactly. I'm like, sure. Like if we add up all the $30 she gave me in a card every fucking year for my birthday. It covers it in a bit. So, it's all good.

Tommy: I can be disheartened by seeing the awful content stuff, but then clearly I'm guilty of it and I've been a part of a lot of it.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: And I think it does come down to, and sometimes you might reflect on what you've created and gone, that was so gross.

Josh: It just needs to, I think the key is it needs to align with your values.

Tommy: Yeah, you feel in your heart like that's the right thing for us to be doing.

Josh: Had a client the other day talking about, One of their clients, so it was an agency that I was talking to, one of their big clients is the cigarette industry. Wow.

Tommy: It's a hard one.

Josh: And so, he was all talking about it like, fine, no biggie. And it did, I did feel a bit weird about it. Do you know where all of their market, so they can't do external marketing, right? So, all of the money, so, He was saying they're a huge client, they're the equivalent of a bank in spend, but what they spend it on is internal videos. They do these fuck-off crazy videos and it's stuff, videos for the 7-Eleven dude behind the counter so that when you're making a purchase decision around ciggies, he can say, oh, well, try this one because of this. Wow.

Tommy: So, it's educating the people who are on the ground selling.

Josh: Educating in fucking quotation marks. But yeah, I did feel weird.

Tommy: Influencing.

Josh: Because I'm like, you know what? They have other clients that are really positive. And it got me thinking like, ah, I don't know how I feel about it. I don't know if they were like, hey, we want you to— If you were told today you can make 100% of your revenue through the cigarette companies, like industry, just making videos for them internally, would you do it?

Tommy: From a business sense, yes. But I think—

Josh: Because— But I think business is an identity and has values that you need to apply. I mean, because it's very easy. If I was to say, would you— If you could make 100% doing human trafficking in a country that's legal, like where you're not going to— But you're going to make cash. Yeah, I think you wouldn't do it, right?

Tommy: No, I think I'd have to knock it back. I know it sounds like the good thing to say is knocking it back, but I think if you're not willing to put, like, I wouldn't be willing to put my name to any of that stuff or share it with anyone.

Josh: And I think that's probably the problem. Yeah, exactly. I mean, if you're not willing, if you're embarrassed or if you're ashamed to have the thing that you've made be associated with you, and we've all had those videos, guaranteed. It's normally just because they're fucking terrible ideas.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: But, um, yeah, you don't really want that. So, but interesting thing to reflect on anyway.

Tommy: Or for content.

Josh: Yep. Happy Wednesday, everyone. Hope you have a great one. Stay cool. Catch you around and feel free to actually— here's something— fucking send us mail to the PO Box. If I get something, I'll be— because I haven't really— I've got— I don't get much mail.

Tommy: Well, you realise if you're a business and you have a product and you send it to the PO Box, then we're going to have to talk about it. So, you're basically giving access to a free plug.

Josh: It's fucking amazing. So, I don't know why people wouldn't do it. So, it's PO Box 400, Abbotsford, Victoria 3067. The first bit of mail that we get that is directed to the Daily Talk Show, we'll say it on air, whatever it is.

Tommy: Will you make a video? You need to give it a bit of a shout out.

Josh: I'll make a fucking video. I'll just—

Tommy: Josh charges a lot for making videos, so—

Josh: Yeah, so, it's a fucking— You're getting a very good deal. Isn't that funny how It's like I was talking to a client of mine who's looking at going to China, 'cause he does manufacturing and all that sort of thing. And I actually said to him, I'm like, "Hey, if you do that, I'd happily go for a few days and film for free just for the experience." Bree's like, "What the fuck are you doing?" But there are those cases, aren't there? Where it's like, mate, fucking experience is great.

Tommy: Well, you may have dug yourself a hole, 'cause you might get 4 packages now.

Josh: Perfect.

Tommy: I hope you get something really fucking weird.

Josh: Yeah, I'm sure, like an adult nappy or something. It's either those ones or the ones I ordered on Catch of the Day. Alright, thanks guys, bye!