Apple Subscription Nightmares

Tommy: It's a very low barrier to get into the Gronk Squad.

Josh: That's crazy! We've committed to do The Daily Talk Show for 10 years.

Tommy: Hi guys!

Mason: Hi guys!

Josh: Put it in the calendar. I'd just like to cheque the temperature in the room. I told you my squeegee story.

Tommy: It is outrageous.

Josh: Come on, let's go. It's The Daily Talk Show episode 963.

Tommy: It's February 19th, 2021. What is happening? What's going on? I—

Josh: Let's cheque in. Last night, planned to go to bed at 9:30. Went to bed after 10:30.

Tommy: Well, that's not too bad. An hour after. Very annoying, though. What were you doing in the hour that you thought you'd be sleeping?

Josh: Well, I was— So, subscriptions. Spoke about it the other day. Harry emailed us and said, hey, you know that you can get YouTube for cheaper if you go directly through YouTube.

Tommy: One of the greatest hacks, open up your phone right now if you use Apple, go to your subscriptions and click on— So, go to your app. So, it's settings. This is really important.

Josh: So, you go into your settings. No, you go app, the App Store on your phone. Then go on the right-hand side, you've got your face.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: Click on that. Then you have subscriptions. You can go in there and you can see what you are Subscribe2.

Tommy: Basically, it's the more transparent version of Telstra. It's like you're on a plan from 7 years ago and you're paying $100 for 1 gigabyte, and they've actually got a plan that's $100 for 4 million gigabytes. But they tell you in the subscription. It's like, it is one of the best things.

Josh: But the thing is, so, Harry pointed out that you are paying a premium when you go through Apple, because the thing is that Apple takes a cut. And so, a YouTube subscription that costs $14.99 a month through YouTube costs $19.99 a month through Apple.

Tommy: Okay. They're taking their little bit of chicken on top.

Josh: Exactly. And so, I was looking at Bree and my credit card statement., and I saw YouTube Premium for $14.99. And I said to Bree, she had just signed up to a trial because they just throw them at you, right, these trials. And I said, oh babe, you've been charged $14.99. She's like, that's impossible. So, what's happened? I'm seeing it. They've even, uh, with the, um, the bank that I use, the, the actual YouTube logo appeared on the left. It was quite a nice UI. I said, no, it has happened. Said, nah. I go into my account on YouTube Premium and I have 2 subscriptions on the same account. One is $19.99, the other is $14.99. And it was then that I realised that this advice that Harry had gave us via email, hi@thedailytalkshow.com.

Tommy: Always up for advice. Suggestions.

Josh: Exactly. I had actually taken that advice previously back in October last year. And so, in September last year, I'd re-signed up through Apple and then realised, oh, $19.99, I don't need to be paying this full amount. So, I decided to change it up and went directly to YouTube. The problem is when, even though it is the same account, They will let you have two simultaneous premium subscriptions going at the same time.

Tommy: That's actually ridiculous. That is ridiculous.

Josh: And so, I—

Tommy: It shouldn't be the case. I know. It shouldn't be.

Josh: And so, I looked online and I found a sort of a help article.

Tommy: A bunch of suckers that have done the same thing.

Josh: No, I just found like a help— It actually said on the— On my account, it says you're paying twice. Like maybe like Did you know that? Like, but it's very, it's hidden in the billing section.

Tommy: It even says, hey idiot, you're paying twice.

Josh: And so I decided, okay, what do I do here? I really want to see this done. I'm trying to, you know, rein in the subscriptions.

Tommy: Well, you've got to fix it. The problem with finding problems is once you know it's there, you can't unthink.

Josh: Exactly.

Tommy: That you can't unknow that. And so you have to fix it. It's just, you know, you're losing money.

Josh: And so, what YouTube suggested in their help article was to contact Apple.

Tommy: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Just contact. Hey, Mum, you know, contact Facebook, could you? Could you call Mark?

Josh: It's actually you can call Apple.

Tommy: Apple's better because they actually are selling products.

Josh: Yeah. You have to be like, imagine the kids who have accidentally spent, you know, $10,000 on some sort of Bluey subscription.

Tommy: I'll tell you what, if I hope that one day a child of mine spends $10K Because if they get that far—

Josh: Well done.

Tommy: Well done. No, because I've got the cash. No, because you can't spend 10 grand that I don't have. I don't have credit cards, Josh. I don't own one.

Josh: That's good.

Mason: That's great.

Josh: And so, I called them.

Tommy: Hello, is this Apple?

Josh: Yeah. And so, like, it was fairly easy. Got on the phone to them and I felt straight away like I was on the back foot, like they weren't really that interested. If I had lied, if I had said, I didn't sign up for this, where's this coming? Like, they would have done something, right? And so, anyway, have the conversation. They say, we just need like the email confirmation. My Mac, my Mac was completely dead, had no battery. So, I was doing everything off my phone, trying to search email. And the problem was that I'd signed up to YouTube so many times. That I had so many emails anyway connected to the accounts. No. Yeah. So, so because the problem was like I had a credit card that had had fraud on it or whatever, and so I cancelled that, remember? And then for ages, like, I had one card that was— had fraud on it, and then I had another card that just expired. And then if you don't do the admin of updating everything, things just lapse and it's like you don't have access.

Tommy: So, which is kind of good because it is a strategy because you work out what needs to be paid.

Josh: Yes. And what you have, it doesn't work that well.

Tommy: It's panic. Yeah. If you're living your life like that, debt collectors, it's like put a bit of fire on your ass with some debt collectors.

Josh: Yeah, it doesn't really work. And so I, um, I was having a, uh, having this conversation. Interestingly, when speaking to the person from Apple, I said, I've got these emails. Yeah, I'm reading out all these details. He He said, what device are you on? I said, an iPhone. He said, are you— can you get on Wi-Fi for me? I said, yep. He's like, are you okay for you to share your screen with me?

Tommy: From your phone?

Josh: So, then in that moment, he said, are you calling from the device? I said, yes. Pops up a screen that says, would you like to share your screen with Apple?

Tommy: Wow.

Josh: And so, I press the button and he can see my screen.. And so, I'm showing the two emails, right. I'm showing the— and, you know, I'm showing the one that was in September and October. And I said, look, I think the fair thing is I should get 4 months of $19.99 back.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: I think that that's the fair thing because I'd been paying double for that period of time.

Tommy: And so, they get out of that you paying $14, which is still something.

Josh: Well, yeah, YouTube do, but I guess Face— Sorry, Apple don't. Yeah.

Tommy: And so they still make a clip somewhere or no?

Josh: No, because I'm going directly to YouTube. So this is the whole problem with subscriptions with Apple is it's like they're just like Uber. They're taking a cut.

Mason: Yeah.

Josh: Anyway, I cracked it. I said, I'll get like, if, if this doesn't get sorted, I'll just get my cousin on to you. No, I said I'll get rid of all my subscriptions with Apple, which is the classic.

Tommy: I'm going to move.

Josh: I'm going to get rid of Foxtel.

Tommy: Yeah, I'm not. I'll cancel. Actually, let's cancel it.

Josh: Yeah.. And so anyway, I do it all. I like, I show the screen thing and he says, okay, yeah. Now I'm putting through what's known as like an automatic refund type of thing, or it's like a computer-generated one.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: And I was like really happy. I was like, okay, perfect. And I said, oh, oh, just before you go, how much is the refund? So I can't, let me look. He's like, oh, $19.99. Like, so you're giving me one month. I said, that's completely unacceptable. I said, have you got— can you just turn on the screen sharing function again? So he turns it on. I go to my profile, I go to subscriptions, unsubscribe, unsubscribe, unsubscribe. I unsubscribed everything. He said, sir, I'll put you through to someone else. But this is the thing, like, I—

Tommy: And what happened?

Josh: So then I got a—

Tommy: This is the Australian government versus Facebook at this point.

Josh: Exactly. And so, Whose bluff are they going to go?

Tommy: Well, they call— This is the thing.

Josh: And so, they say, how did you go? And I said, well, the other annoying thing is we're getting rid of this credit card that it was on.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: And they say it's going to take 30 days to refund. So, the thing is that this credit card is one of those annoying ones where it's like it makes sense if you're travelling.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: Frequent flyer points or like frequent flyer points. Biggest scam.

Tommy: If we've learned anything in COVID, this is a credit card from flying 7 years ago and you've still got it active.

Josh: But the annoying, like, the annoying thing about this, this is what another, another company that I want to bring down, ANZ. I'll tell you why. So ANZ, uh, with our, with our credit card, you can transfer, like, so it's, it's a frequent flyer card, right, that you can transfer to anything. Does that make sense? So it's like you get ANZ points and then you can say, I want to put them to Virgin. I want to put them to here once you put them to there. Uh, so that's what we're doing. We had the card and we're putting it to Virgin. With every— all the shit that's going down, they're like, actually, hang on, now you can't transfer to Virgin. We've just completely stopped that. But they still charge the $299 annual fee for you to have this card. So that's the reason I'm getting rid of the card. Annoyingly, Apple, that $19.99, they're like, oh, it's going to take, um, up to 30 days Yeah. To hit your account. Now our credit card renews in like 10 days.

Tommy: I know, it's too shitty.

Josh: So, we're going— So, we're better off cancelling the card. Maybe they transfer, maybe Apple puts it on and then we can like, you know, like credit card companies, they'll send you a cheque if you overpay.

Tommy: I've had that. It's so annoying. I never checked it. I never cashed it.

Josh: It's so annoying.

Mason: Yeah.

Josh: It's so frustrating. And so, anyway, today you'll notice I'm not wearing an Apple Watch.

Tommy: And you've got an Android.

Josh: No, I don't have an Android. But it did get me, like, with the rant that we had yesterday about technology.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: I was thinking about, you know, what does it all mean? What's the point? What's it like? Apple Fitness, like— Was this just after?

Tommy: Was this 10:30 PM?

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: As you close your eyes.

Josh: After it all. Exactly.

Tommy: It all sort of came rushing in.

Josh: Yeah. It's like it went in my eye. Unsubscribe from everything. And because when they see it, it would have looked spectacular because I had MasterClass. I had like $1,000 worth of subscriptions that just going like unsubscribes. And I had Apple One, which is the, the subscription that gives you everything within Apple.

Tommy: So it's gone.

Josh: So this is the thing. When you unsubscribe, you get it until the last day. So I still technically have that. Yeah, I will need— where it's going to fall over is I need iCloud, I need that storage because I want my phone backed up.

Tommy: Yes.

Josh: But I was thinking Spotify, I can't be fucked with. Um, why do I hate Spotify again? I hate Spotify for a number of reasons. I just think like, I, I, I don't like a bunch of the, the ways they go about things. And it's like, you know what, you can do what you want. So, you know, move your money. Like, I really believe now after especially like what we spoke about yesterday The only thing you can control is what you do. If you don't like a business, you could— there's no point whinging about it. There's no point like being an activist, like just show with your money.

Tommy: I know, though, ScoMo complaining about Facebook in a Facebook post last night. It's like, ScoMo, fucking ban it in Australia. Yeah, if that's you, that's your big flex. That's your big flex. If Australia then said, absolutely not, we're banning Facebook, imagine that.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: That would ruin too many businesses, though.

Josh: And this is, I think that—

Tommy: But it's an action. Like, that's what you're saying is if you don't like something, rather than just being a part of it and complaining, you can actually delete. I saw a bunch of people screen capturing them opening up their phone, going to the Facebook app, deleting it. And this happened Cambridge Analytica years ago. It was a similar— 2018, it was people like, absolutely not, I can't, can't be a part of this. And so, it is a similar thing. People are taking action.

Josh: Yeah. And so, yeah, I don't know. The Facebook thing was interesting because there was a bunch of accounts that aren't related to news that were getting taken down. But I also think like this isn't a long-term strategy. Don't you think this is just like Facebook? This is just Facebook doing it. Showing, like, flexing the muscle and then bringing it back. Like, I don't think that that's— it's a long-term strategy.

Tommy: Because if you were the person in charge of Facebook, I couldn't imagine you bringing it back. Like, I feel like the next move is either they change— Australia agrees not to charge Facebook and it goes back to where it was, and all the businesses that have suffered now just get back their golden egg.

Josh: Well, so what about if I was to post a news article on Twitter You can do that. And then I took the link to the tweet and put it on Facebook.

Tommy: I've seen a few people working out little hacks.

Josh: Yeah. I mean, this is why the whole thing didn't make that much sense. Anyway, so my point is that Apple Music, I was getting into Apple Music a bit, but I'm thinking maybe going something like Tidal or a completely another—

Tommy: Who owns Tidal? Was that Dr. Dre?

Josh: He's got Beats.

Tommy: Yes.

Josh: Who is it? Jay-Z.

Tommy: Jay-Z.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: Yeah, I think it was Jay-Z.

Josh: And so I want to look into these.

Tommy: Are these businesses still happening?

Josh: Are you going? I mean, the thing is, you need to— the funny thing about deciding to not use big companies as much is that the smaller companies end up getting bought by the bigger companies anyway.

Mason: Yeah.

Tommy: So 2017, Sprint Corporation bought 33% of Tidal for a reported $200 million, which I mean, I don't know one person in my world that uses anything like Tidal. How many? There's just so many apps that are worth a bunch of cash. They've actually got a whole user base somewhere else, but just not here.

Josh: Well, before Spotify, the biggest streaming platform in the US, do you know what it was?

Tommy: Before Spotify? Yeah. Podcast. What is there? I don't know.

Josh: Pandora.

Tommy: That's right. I remember that. I had a— it was free for a while.

Josh: It was really good.

Tommy: It had the ads like the same model as Spotify.

Josh: But it was a radio. Yeah. So it was like radio related. But I remember—

Tommy: Still around? No.

Josh: Yeah. Pandora was bought by SiriusXM. I think they'll end up going in sort of some sort of podcast hybrid model. Yeah. But yeah, but before, before Spotify, There was Rhapsody. Rhapsody was, was one that was sort of an all-you-can-eat subscription thing.

Tommy: And there was also, um, Songl.

Josh: There was Songl too, for short. And it used to be called Anubis FM. There's been a bunch of companies that have tried subscription stuff, but I think the thing is that, um, there's, there's not really that much to like, what is the brand equity or like as a customer, why do I stay with these different companies? Spotify.

Tommy: So you don't get trolled in the office for being the guy that's using Tidal.

Josh: Well, so this is a version of like social pressure, but this is the whole thing. Do I need my music to be a fucking social network?

Tommy: No. And so this is Spotify's not a social network.

Josh: But that's where it almost sort of lands, where it's like the— what you're talking about is the ability to share playlists.

Tommy: Yeah. I mean, I don't do any of that shit. I use Spotify. But you're, I mean, you are a guy that gets the office going with your music. Therefore, it brings the conversation. So, I feel the pressure for you.

Josh: I think Tyler will be crying.

Tommy: No one's saying to me like, what are you listening through?

Josh: Yeah, I don't even, I wouldn't even know.

Tommy: I mean, I've got a Spotify account that is just the fam, like through the family.

Mason: Okay.

Tommy: But I get annoyed because I couldn't tell you my login. I don't have the login, so I haven't logged it, put it onto the— And then Amy gets kicked off when I'm using it.

Mason: I don't know.

Josh: I mean, that's not a family account. That's a single account that's being used as a family. Yeah.

Tommy: That's a guy who doesn't get it, doesn't understand at all.

Josh: Yeah. And then, so if anyone's got any suggestions of their favourite music streaming app, let us know.

Tommy: So, today's Fat Friday and we've actually had GB upstairs. Usually he's cutting edits, cooking up a storm in the edit suite. Today he's editing up a storm by cooking us bacon and egg rolls. So, oh, George, thank you, mate. This is, um, the bun's upside down.

Josh: That's exactly how he likes to eat it. Thank you, George.

Tommy: This is perfect.

Josh: So I asked for a— uh, GB, you come sit in here.

Tommy: All right, g'day, George.

Mason: Oh, hey, TJ. Thanks for paying for all the ingredients.

Tommy: No worries, mate.

Mason: Thank you too, Josh.

Tommy: Talk us through what you've cooked today upstairs.

Mason: It's a bacon and egg roll.

Tommy: That's it.

Mason: It's a bacon and egg roll with maple bacon and shortcut bacon.

Tommy: Yum. Oh, so it's a blend.

Mason: It's a combination. We actually bought way too much bacon. Yeah. So, I didn't end up cooking it all.

Tommy: Okay.

Mason: And a fried egg, over easy, as Josh likes it.

Tommy: Yeah.

Mason: And some nice cheddar cheese. And smoky barbecue sauce.

Tommy: Oh yeah, thank you, George. Thank you. This is exactly what I wanted. Um, so I'll leave. How good's this? Uh, how far are we into the app? Because I'm almost ready to just, yeah, pull the pin and eat this.

Josh: Uh, I feel like I've been real whingy. Have you got something positive?

Tommy: I'm pretty drained after all of that.

Josh: Yeah, what's up? What music subscription should I use?

Tommy: I think you go Tidal. I don't know anyone who's on it and you're an outlier.

Josh: Yeah, but it's good quality sort of stuff. Like maybe I'll become a bit of an audiophile.

Tommy: Well, if it doesn't need to be your identity.

Josh: Or it could be.

Tommy: Or it could be.

Josh: And so, this was my whole, this is what I was thinking last night. It's like, I don't want to necessarily— Oh, it looks good. TJ's just taken a bite. How is it?

Tommy: Oh, it's well done.

Josh: I'll have a bite now. Here we go.

Tommy: That was a trap.

Josh: Okay, here we go.

Tommy: All right, I was really worried that the egg would spill into the Audio Technica mic.

Josh: Good. Stand by.

Tommy: Hmm, I mean, you can't complain because he's made us breakfast.

Josh: No, what I love about it It's not too moist. It's quite dry.

Tommy: Not in a bad way, but, um, like it's a hiccup-inducing bacon and egg roll.

Josh: Is yours quite dry? Yeah, but I think it's good. What I like about dry is it doesn't make it a mess.

Tommy: This is someone explaining Tidal.

Josh: What I like about Tidal It's a bit dry. No, no, it's actually really— I think he's done a great— this is exactly what I would want walking into work eating because he hasn't gone crazy on the sauce. I think where I go wrong is I add too much sauce.

Tommy: Oh dude, it becomes a mess. I drench shit in sauce. This is—

Josh: he's done a great job. Thank you, George. Thanks, Tom.

Tommy: I'm gonna, um, I mean, it's a Fun Friday one. Why don't we, uh, call it there? I'm gonna put some more sauce on this. Um, And yeah, get your subscriptions in check. It is, all the stuff with Facebook is evolving. I'm enjoying sort of reading through online from our conversation yesterday. I think our show, what we like to do is speak and then—

Josh: And then do the research.

Tommy: And then, yeah.

Josh: What have you discovered? Any retractions?

Mason: No, not at all.

Tommy: No, no. I think we would just, we like to out sort of start laying out the potential, you know, the problem, the counter. To the argument or both sides looking at that. It is really fascinating. And there's just a lot smarter people than us talking about it now, which is allowing us to sort of see what's going on.

Josh: But hearing journalists talk about it, there is a lot of journalists who—

Tommy: Are all good? What are they saying?

Josh: No, no, no. I just think like, yeah, I had that moment that you probably had where it's like, oh, we really spoke about something without knowing that much. Like, we didn't do that much research. But then you'll see a journalist on television completely misrepresent something or just like, just be— You can clearly tell that they don't have any understanding of what's going on.

Tommy: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, one, I think it's like anything, there's sides to it. And if you just happen to fall to a side, you'll start hearing and being in the echo chamber of that side, which I think it's very nuanced. But my friend did send me a tweet which he quite liked, and it was from someone, Osman Faruqi, and he said, might fuck around and pivot my media company to be entirely reliant on fickle tech giant fascism accelerator, demand they give me money for some reason, ignore their threats, and then lose my mind when they call my bluff. Which you see is sort of on the side of like on the outlining the craziness that the government tried to, you know, put their foot down.

Josh: Trevor Long, uh, our mate, did a great video on YouTube if you search EFTM. Yeah, he did sort of a 10-minute video and he says, Facebook, you've pissed me off. You don't want to piss off Trev. Absolutely not. Could you imagine if Trev and I got pissed off at this, at the same thing at the same time? It'd be the end of the business. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But definitely give— because I think that Trev leans a couple of different ways on things, so he's got an interesting perspective on it. So yeah, cheque that out.

Tommy: Does it affect EFTM?

Josh: Yeah, yeah. So he's— yeah, he's seeing all those sort of impacts.

Tommy: And yeah, it fucking sucks for a bunch of people, but I don't know who we think that we're talking about. We're talking about a business that Can do what they want. They literally can just make their decisions. And so when— Sucks for Trev. He's a mate of ours. It sucks for some of the, like, Time Out Melbourne, where it's literally pushing people to, you know, understand what's happening in Melbourne.

Josh: 18,000 likes Trev has on his AFTM Facebook page. Gone.

Tommy: You know, Facebook were removing likes on pages anyway this year. Yeah. So they're removing that. They're making heaps of changes.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: And the one thing is, I literally— I don't— I probably spent more time on Facebook yesterday than I have in a long time based on what's happening. I'm not, I'm not fucking triggered. There's like heaps of articles that I'm not reading headlines of and then getting annoyed about.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: And so there is a, a bunch of outrage that would have happened yesterday on social media that didn't. And the people who would have been contributing that outrage are better for, better off.

Josh: And you also see the, some of these news sites just doing hit pieces on Facebook, all the things Facebook have, has done wrong.

Tommy: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Josh: But yeah, I did think last night, I was like, you know, we spoke about infinite games, finite games. What would it look like not to play the finite game? Yeah, I wonder. This is something I don't know if it's worth exploring. I feel like it would scare a lot of people off. But from a podcast perspective, taking sort of that Substack route, not necessarily from a paid perspective, but what would it look like to not be doing social stuff and just like— I wonder what the mechanism would be to actually have people consuming that content if you're like, not going to do social stuff, and even potentially have it as a, um, private feed so that people subscribe to it. You actually have a better relationship with everyone that listens. It's an opt-in sort of thing rather than the internet where it's like people fall onto something and listen. And today maybe you would just get absolutely no listeners.

Tommy: Yeah, I guess isn't it funny how the shit that scares you in life can sometimes be the answer, or it's definitely like there's a lot of growth in those places. And so for a lot of people, removing themselves from these these things like social media is super scary because they think it's going to ruin them. And for some, it actually would just completely ruin their business because that is their business. They sell every product by obtaining, you know, customers through social media. So I get that. Yeah, but yeah, yeah, it's new. It is good. I don't think it's completely negative. For some, it's going to be fucking stinging real hard.

Mason: Yeah.

Tommy: Like, you know, swimming in the Dead Sea with a little cut in your bum. Very bespoke sort of reference if you haven't been to the Dead Sea. Not everyone has.

Josh: But I've been to Israel. You felt that.

Tommy: I've been to Israel.

Josh: Yeah. You did you hear ringing in your ears when you're—

Tommy: You don't put your head under the water.

Josh: No, no, no. From your sting.

Tommy: Ring sting?

Josh: No, like when I feel like, you know, when you like if something's really hurting or stinging.

Tommy: My asshole wasn't from that cut.

Josh: Okay. Right. It's a daily talk show. Enjoy your weekend. We'll see you Monday. Have a good one.

Tommy: See you guys.

Mason: Bye.