Steph Tisdell On Comedy & Culture

Tommy: It's The Daily Talk Show, episode 818, and we've got a special guest comedian, Steph Tisdale, joining us from Brizzy with a bird on her shoulder.

Steph: Steph, how are you? I'm good, thanks. How you fellas doing? 818, by the way, that is insanity.

Josh: Yeah, it is. It's a little bit crazy.

Tommy: I mean I mean, that's normal to us. Is it normal for the bird, for you having a bird on your shoulder? Can you paint the picture for our listeners?

Steph: Well, I got this bird with my partner. How long ago did we get you? Like a month ago. Okay. He's obsessed with my mouth. This is going to be the entire podcast. Him at my mouth. We bought him about a month ago. He thinks he owns the joint. He's kind of right. Like he's so spoiled. And my cat's right here as well. I don't know if you can see the cat.

Tommy: There she is.

Josh: And so getting a bird and a cat, is that risky business?

Steph: No, this cat— well, I've got— this is the best cat in the world, and she's old too, and he loves her, but she's shit scared of him, which is, you know, funny because doesn't— isn't what would happen in the wild, is it?

Tommy: I mean, it's nice to see the 4-week friendship of what it could be with a bird. I mean, you're already on kissing terms. How trained is the bird when you purchase the bird? What is it, pre-trained, or do you have— slightly? I mean, it is pecking at your ears. How do you— how much training do you have to do for a bird?

Steph: He was hand-reared and, um, which means from a baby he was like, oh my God, stop it, Albie. Oh, this is ridiculous. Um, which means, yeah, so he was hand-reared. So when he came out of his little egg, he was like held and looked after by humans. And, um, that's it, it's gone now. I'm only listening on this one now. That's what you've done.

Josh: The bird is— what's the bird's name? Are you saying Aldi?

Steph: Albie.

Josh: Albie. I thought you loved Aldi.

Steph: I, I first I wanted to name him Michael Parkinson and Parky for sure.

Josh: Yeah.

Steph: 'Cause I thought it was funny, Parky the parrot.

Josh: Yeah.

Steph: And then be like Michael Parkinson when he was being naughty. But no.

Josh: So is this what you expected? I mean, being in Brizzy, I think like we're in Victoria, so shit's obviously hit the fan and we're all at home. What is it like for you being a standup comedian in 2020?

Steph: Um, it's a bit shit. I'm really like, I'll be honest, because I'm missing crowds. Like, sorry, this is how I have to—

Josh: Yeah, that's cool, that's cool. You look like a DJ. You've currently protected me. Do you need to put, put Albie away, or is it, is it okay? No, you're all good.

Steph: Oh my God, stop it.

Tommy: If you're not, if you're not watching this, you can do yourself a favor, go on YouTube and watch it.

Josh: And so, and so 2020, um, did you think that you were gonna have a bird, or is this, is this an ISO purchase?

Steph: Um, no, I've wanted a bird for ages. Fuck off. Nah, you know what? Hey, hey, step up, step up, step up, step up, you little shit. This is what I'm supposed to do.

Josh: This is great. This is like when a parent losing their mind at their kid and you just sort of watch on.

Steph: Step up, Albie.

Tommy: Step up not to fight, but step up onto her hand, she's saying.

Steph: Step up. Thank you.

Tommy: This is great. Oh, stepped up. There we go. And now throw.

Josh: Yeah, there we go. That's perfect. And so 2020, give us a bit of a monologue on 2020. How are you feeling? What's going on?

Steph: Well, I just— it just kind of sucks because like Like, this is so self-indulgent, I recognise that, right? But this was supposed to be my year to finally break through, and I'll, I'll put it bluntly, I was going to make money for the first time ever in my comedy career, um, and then I lost all of my work and it's just shat on me.

Josh: Oh no, finishing 2020 strong. So, um, so you're expecting— so January, what did January look like for you, and then when did you get a feeling that things were changing?

Steph: Well, I, um, I found out that I was going to be hosting the Melbourne Comedy Festival Gala, which is obviously so huge, um, like both as a professional thing and a personal, you know, like just I, I cried, man, I was so excited. So that was supposed to happen in end of March, start of April. Um, January I was in Perth February I was in Adelaide and then March everything was sort of supposed to kick off and I was meant to be in Melbourne.

Josh: Mm-hmm.

Steph: Um, and then that's when it all kind of turned to shit. Like it was kind of like, um, it had all started and nobody was really sure what was gonna happen. So end of March. Yeah, yeah, yeah. When I came back from Adelaide, I think I did 2 shows in Brisbane for Brisbane Comedy Festival. And then, but like nobody was really showing up. So I'd sold out all the nights, but they were like empty audiences because they were like, oh, you know, try and stay away from people. And then I think the Monday, so I finished the run on Sunday and on the Monday they said no groups of more than however many people it was. And it was just like, ah, yeah. But like, I mean, it's really forced me to diversify, I guess. I think, um, I think it's also really good because like I'm looking into my psyche a little bit more, do you know what I mean? I know that sounds a bit silly, but kind of discovering a little bit more about myself. And, um, I think when you've got so much free time, you just naturally, if you want to keep on progressing and growing, you just do that, I guess.

Tommy: What have you learned about having, having the thought in your mind that 2020 is going to be the year you're going to make money, or, you know, the year that you'll sort of break out versus not doing it. What is the learning in having that thought about what a year will give you before you've even gone through it?

Steph: Um, I don't know. I'd like— I just really went and started. Like, I just was like, all right, well, I have other talents and other creative things that I can try. She's picked my eye. I'll do that and see where I end up. And I've actually been writing more, I think. I don't know, it's just— I realised as well that this isn't about money for me, so I needed to— I think the idea of finally making money for the first time was a big idea, but I haven't been doing this because I wanted to make money, because if you get into comedy for money, then you're a fuckwit. Oh, sorry, am I allowed to swear?

Josh: Yeah, you can. You can swear.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: Can you go back to your first ever time on stage as a stand-up comedian?

Steph: Yeah, um, so Albie— Albie, oh my fucking God, this is what this whole thing's gonna be. And he growled at me.

Josh: You can put his ear back. Do you want to put it— do you want to—

Tommy: yeah, you can.

Josh: Maybe we can cut it. We can cut to me so that you can, you can do your thing, move around and get done.

Steph: Step up.

Josh: You can really discipline Albie the bird.

Steph: Yeah, I'm really bad at disciplining. Albie, Albie.

Josh: She's got the wooden spoon. Um, yeah, do you want to? Yeah, go. Yeah, it's fine. You can, uh, do your thing. There you go. TJ, did you ever have— Tommy, have you ever had a pet bird before?

Tommy: No. Funny story, my auntie It's her birthday today, actually, but I messaged her. Came to our front door when it was my birthday, and Dad opened the front door and there's my auntie standing with a budgie in a cage. And my dad said, "Absolutely not." He's got something about birds being in cages, and he said, "Absolutely not." And to be fair, I think if it was probably something like a parrot that it's trained that can walk around and— But this was one of those small, just colourful ones that just sits there all day. Chirping.

Josh: And you had to put it away again. So was it a gift for you, Tommy?

Tommy: It was a gift. It was a gift for me for my birthday. And Dad said, absolutely not, take that home. And so that's it. Didn't get one. Never got a bird. This is the closest I've come to having a bird is on the Daily Talk Show.

Josh: It's a pain in the ass.

Tommy: Yeah, pain in the ass.

Josh: So Alby's away, so we can make it about you again, Steph. So the first time you're on stage as a stand-up comedian? When was it?

Steph: So, well, this is a hard question to answer because the first time that I ever did comedy on a stage was because I was living— I've got a tattoo of a snowman saying, "Why not?" I don't know if you can see it very well. It's kind of, um, and it's basically— I went through a really rough time during uni, and I kind of had like a bit of an existential crisis, and I was like, man, I don't want to do this anymore. Like this isn't what I thought I wanted to do with my life. What were you studying? I was just law and journalism. And I was just really panicking and I just had a lot of issues with mental health. And then I was like, fuck it. Like I'm never gonna learn what, cause I used to have like 5 panic attacks a day. I wasn't leaving the house and it was just really shit. And I was like, I'm never gonna learn what I'm capable of unless I remove the safety blanket and force myself to fucking swim. Those two metaphors didn't work, but you know what I mean. And so I just was like, I'm going to do something that scares the shit out of me and show me that I'm capable of it. So I booked return flights into London for 4 months and no accommodation and just was like, I'll just fucking figure it out. And I mean, it's a long story, but I'm not going to tell the whole story. But basically by about halfway through the time there, I had had this crazy meeting with somebody who was talking about how, you know, you need to be present and live in the moment and you should say why not to any opportunity that comes along your way. And it was not long after Yes Man came out and I was like, oh my God, I love that. And I had rules for myself, like I didn't want to do hard drugs, I didn't want to be arrested, I didn't want to get— I didn't want to die. And then, but anything else I had to say yes to. So Everyone who I'd meet, I'd tell them this storey and I'd ask them to do things that used to scare them and we'd just do cool shit. And one night it all culminated. I was in Ireland and I was in Dublin and I was telling a storey to this group of mates that I'd made. And one of them goes, "Steph, you are really funny. You should do standup." And I was like, "Fuck that. No way. Can't think of anything I would least, you know, like that I would, rather not do in my life. And she went, oh my God, wait, you have that tattoo. And I was like, oh, please don't make me do this. But she was like, well, you're not going to die and you're not going to do drugs and you're not going to get arrested, so why not? And I was like, fuck, all right. And so I just went to a random pub in Dublin and got fucking hammered. I don't drink anymore, but I like, I drank like a bottle of vodka. Nah, it was less than that. But anyway, you know, I'm exaggerating, but I got really drunk and then I just walked into a bar and I said, look, I said, do you have a stage? Do you do stand-up comedy here? And he's like, no. And I went, do you have a microphone? And he was like, no, why? And I went, no reason. And then I just stood up on a chair and I just was like, look guys, I've got this thing to do. I guess you can pretend it's like it's on my bucket list. If I'm any good, buy me a drink. If I'm shit, I'll definitely know. And then I just riffed like 10 minutes of comedy funny storeys about my life. And, um, yeah, I had drinks from everyone in the bar. I mean, it was, it was after having the bottle. Yeah, exactly.

Tommy: I know, but there was literally like— walk out of the bar or get carried out.

Steph: I don't even remember what happened after that, I'll be honest.

Josh: You sure it was about—

Steph: there was like 12 shots. There was like 12 shots on the bar. And, um, yeah, so, and then I, I was like, I can't believe that was like— and my friend was like, the fuck, that was actually like, you look like you've done that before. I was like, did I? And then so I did an open mic night in Brisbane and the host was Lindsay Webb actually. And he said, well, if that was your first time, everybody else should probably reconsider. And like, because, you know, like when I did my first proper time, I guess, back in Brisbane. And then I just kind of I did spots here and there over the space of about 2 years before I actually started. So like I did like maybe 3 or 4 spots over 2 years. But I used to watch, I used to go to at least 2 open mic nights every week just to watch others and just to learn. But I never was really antisocial with the comedians.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: Well, fast forward to 2019 and you're on the gala, I saw you. I was, um, at my, uh, wife's parents' place, and they, they don't have internet, but they have, um, the box that you record live television. So I was like pissed that we didn't have Netflix, and I was going through a back catalogue of what, uh, what had been saved down, and I found your set at the gala, and it was fucking amazing. I mean, that's in front of how many people? There's probably 1500 people. I mean, going from about 2,500. Yeah, yeah, sorry, mate, I cut it. That's, that's a, that's a dig. I just cut 1,000 people out of your set. I mean, going from that sort of Dublin, you, you don't— you, you're standing up, you're giving it a crack to something like the Gala. What goes into what you put into something and what you leave out? Because you only got 5 minutes, right? So how do you choose what you're going to leave?

Steph: Mate, it was 3 minutes. It was so hard. It was so hard, actually. I think that was probably the hardest set to write for that I've ever done because obviously it feels like there's so much at stake, you know. I— do you know what's funny about that joke in particular, actually? Like the joke that went viral from that, which was about my ginger boyfriend. I had done Just for Laughs, probably, I think, a couple of months beforehand. And I'd written a set and sent it off to the editors, like, just to make sure that they know where you're at, you know, like, for timing and all that sort of stuff when it comes to filming. And I hadn't written that joke yet, right? Anyway, the day of or the day before Just for Laughs, I came up with that joke and I went, that's really, that's really funny. And, you know, like, I had this whole thing of you know, it brings people together and there's like this undercurrent of like, why isn't it offensive to use a word like ranga against white people? You know, like I had this whole reason why I wanted to do it. And so I rocked up at Just for Laughs and I just said to the woman, I'm so sorry, but I've changed my mind about the script. Can I, you know? And she was like, okay. And I told her the joke and she went, yeah, that's really funny. Don't worry about it. Like it'll be approved. You know, like you have to get it like approved or whatever.

Josh: Yeah.

Steph: Um, and so I just like, basically it was the first time I'd ever told it on stage, um, at Just for Laughs. It was being recorded, like filmed, and it just absolutely tore the roof off the place. And because I hadn't tested it before, I was like, okay, well, that's a, that's a good bit. And my manager was watching and she was like, what, what is this joke? This is great. And so when Gala came around, I was like, I better use my best bits. And I just remembered that feeling of like, just when your gut just knows that it's the thing to use. And I was like, all right, I'll do that. And then I thought, I was like, okay, I wanna end it with something that's like a point, like something that isn't necessarily funny, just a point. And I ended it with the line, look, all I'm trying to say is if we can't even get in the position, to get in the position of reverse cowgirl, how the fuck are we going to get representation on screen? It was a joke about Aboriginal porn. And yeah, I just, I had this idea that I wanted to finish really like with this, like, I don't care if it's not that funny, it has to have this real meaning. And I knew the only other thing that I knew was that that joke had to go in it. And then I just figured the rest out, you know.

Tommy: It was a great set. I read a review from an Adelaide paper that says, carefully balances the hard truths Indigenous Australians face with tongue-in-cheek jokes and hilarious quips. Hilarious and informative. I mean, how much are you channelling your experience as an Indigenous woman and saying, I want to communicate to people to help them understand or help them see something. Is that your approach to the contents as well?

Steph: Man, absolutely. And like, you know, when I first started comedy, like, I remember, um, kind of, it would have been the end of 2013, end of 2000, uh, start of 2014 that I started doing more sets. And I had this thing in my mind, I was never ever going to mention my heritage on stage. That was my thinking, right, because I was so scared, like absolutely shit scared for so many reasons that one, people would say that I was only getting things because I was Aboriginal, like tokenism. I was really scared of receiving backlash and racism and I was really scared that I would, that I didn't have the permission almost. And to give you an idea of what I mean by that, so I know my people, I know my family, but I didn't grow up on Country. And in fact, my mum made a very purposeful decision to raise us in Brisbane so that we had opportunities because she grew up on Country and she said it was such a racist town, she, you know, and there was nothing there basically.

Josh: What does it mean to be raised on Country?

Steph: Just, you're surrounded by your culture and you know, like everything, it feels like home. I mean, it's this weird thing 'cause it's so like spiritual, you know, like you put your feet on your soil and you just know. Well, okay, the nicest, the poetic way that my Auntie always says is, "You gotta step in your ancestors' footprints and leave your little footprints behind." sort of, you know, there's been thousands and thousands and thousands of years of people kind of looking a bit like me walking around up there, you know what I mean? And so it's a big thing. Like I often have this feeling of missing home even though I didn't grow up there. It's a really odd thing to describe, but, and also there's just so much nuance that comes with being around your culture and the way that the blackfellas talk and, you know, knowing whose auntie is, you know, like knowing who she's related to or whatever it is. Oh, it's such a big family. And I think when you're away from it, oh my God, the bird's back. He's just crawling up my leg right now. When you're away from it, you can sort of miss that.

Josh: And so if you're away, is there like a middle ground? Like I find it interesting sort of the term So is it you're either doing that or you're not, or is there a middle ground of still being connected whilst being—

Steph: No, it's really, it's really hard because it really is just about like, I think the big part is like the nuance that you can't teach, you know. And so I always felt like a bit of a fraud because I knew that, you know, I grew up in Brisbane. There was no Blackfellas here. I had no one to talk to that talked like me. So I didn't, I didn't talk like, ow!

Josh: Alby's currently chewing on your ear.

Tommy: Back at it again.

Steph: Fuck's sake, this bird. Um, right, yeah, but I didn't have anyone that talked, that talked like my family. I didn't have anyone to talk to like that. And so, you know, like, I, I did— yeah, it was really weird. I just kind of felt like a fraud. And, um, and even though I recognised that Mum had made those decisions so that we had all the best opportunities so that we could make changes and, you know, like strive for things and that. When it came to doing comedy, I was like, man, somebody's gonna call me out. Somebody's gonna say, you are not Black enough. You don't get to talk about this. I was shit scared. But then I kind of, I recognised that actually that storey my storey is really common. Like, it's a really, really common story. And it's like, I have a unique, um, opportunity, which is that I know my family. I've researched a lot about— like, I've looked in the archives. I've written— don't fucking— did you see that? He bit me and I put my hand up, and then he was like, fuck off, you're a shithead. Sorry. No, so like I researched a lot and I learned about the history of our family and like from a policy perspective, especially, and that was actually the main reason why I was studying law and journalism was to do a lot of advocacy work. And I just was like, after a little while I went, what am I, why am I not talking about this on stage? Am I ashamed? Like, no, I'm not ashamed. You know, this is a really common story. I'm like, what's going to happen? Somebody's going to say, oh, you're not Black enough. And I'm going to go, no, I know that. That's why I'm talking about these things. You know, like it's my story. I'm not trying to tell a storey as if I know every story. I'm just, I can only ever be an expert on mine.

Josh: You know? So when you're experiencing—

Steph: Sorry, that was a long answer.

Tommy: That's great. Your experiences, your belief system at play, what have you learned about some of the stuff you may have thought was the way for yourself? And then when you've stepped into it, like being in front of, you know, nearly 3,000 people and how capable you are, what have you felt about— have you seen some internal shift on your side?

Steph: Oh, honestly, I think that comedy is probably— oh my God, he's about to bite the cat. Oh, they're fighting. The cat and the bird are fighting.

Josh: This is our first fight on YouTube. You are such a shit.

Steph: You are such a terrible little Oh, now he's being cute.

Tommy: This is like my son, Steph. I've got a 3-year-old. This is exactly how I feel to him. Yeah, he just came down. I nearly had to, you know, tell him to blow up.

Steph: Get away from the headphones.

Josh: You can sit there.

Steph: Good boy.

Tommy: Oh, that's a good, good bird. Yeah, your personal shift in beliefs and what you're capable of Talk us through that.

Steph: I think that comedy has probably been the most empowering way for me to learn about culture. Like, I've been so incredibly lucky when I did Deadly Funny, and which is a competition that is run by the Melbourne Comedy Festival for Indigenous comedians. That was honestly the most amazing thing because I got to meet strong, staunch, you know, empowered, confident Aboriginal comedians who talked about all of the things that you could do with that platform. And I felt so absolutely overwhelmed by that, you know, and I got to meet Kevin Kropinyeri, who is my biggest mentor in the world. And he kind of, I talked to him about, you know, look, I've always, the reason why I'm so, I always tell people I'm Aboriginal is because I really, I feel it, you know, like I really identify with that within me. I feel those ties. I'm so much like so much of my family. I look like all of my family. And I feel like, you know, 'cause I grew up in Brisbane and there's not that many Blackfellas, I could have just pretended I had a tan, but it's never felt like that's never been right for me, you know? And so he kind of, he really helped me talk about like what it meant to be Aboriginal, what that kind of identity, where that identity comes from, the spirituality behind it, the culture, the, you know, kind of all of those things and gave me a lot of confidence that I could talk about it. And when he did, I started saying, well, look, you know, The most amount of research that I've done is a lot of it's based on policy and politics and law and history. And I just want to show people what people don't realise is that like, you know, we'll happily— oh, for fuck's sake, put my hand in shit again. People are so good at having empathy when it comes to like an individual situation, right? Like they go, oh yeah, but you can see why he's like that because XYZ. And then what always infuriated me, it was like, uh, how can you not see that the state that we're at right now in Australia, as far as like the division between Aboriginal Australia and Australia, is because of XYZ that's happened? And this is how short the history is. And, you know, the— like, how have people never kind of put those things together and gone, yeah, this— these attitudes lead to these policies these policies are only like 45 years old, which means those attitudes still exist. How the fuck do we break out of that? And so I just thought, well, if you can make people laugh about it, you can make them fucking think about it. You know what I mean?

Josh: Yeah.

Steph: Take the scary out of it. So it was a huge lament.

Josh: It's super interesting, like going back to that first time where you're standing up and you've got sort of that Dutch courage of, you know, a bit of booze. To going up without that and preparing and actually like the conscious state of doing it. Was that a learning to be able to do it in a way where you've got jokes and you've got a setlist and you're working through material?

Steph: Yeah. Oh, big time. And especially because like, you know, kind of, it sounds a bit arrogant, but I've always just been the funny one in my groups and that. Like, I'm being quite serious now. I'm sorry. But, you know, like I'm kind of the, like, like I'm like the funny one and always making people laugh and all that sort of thing. And it's really interesting because it's like when it comes to my material about being Black, like it's really thought through and it's really considered. Whereas everything else I can sort of just come up with on the spot, you know? But I really wanna make sure that there's like a really, well-thought-out like message behind everything. Um, but yeah, it's been really empowering because every time that I write a joke like that, I have to ask myself a list of questions about, okay, what could somebody say to this? Or what could somebody say to that? Or am I going to cop hate for this? Or am I going to cop hate for that? And how am I going to respond to this or that? Um, which by the way, I think is, um, something that as a general rule white comedians don't need to do. But anyway, that's like, that's not a That's neither here nor there.

Josh: Is it a protective mechanism?

Steph: It's hard to ask questions.

Josh: Or like, is it based on sort of, you've got an audience that for the most part isn't very educated in sort of Aboriginal culture and just all of this stuff. And so then is it you having to work to get to a baseline of audience understanding? Like, do you think that there's an evolution in the comedy where it starts with the education piece and then it moves on to other stuff? Or do you think that the advocacy is always a part of what you do?

Steph: I mean, yeah, like I think it's always a part of what I do, but there is definitely an element of like of educating people and like you have to, I mean, there's just so much misinformation and misrepresentation and, you know, it's kind of, it's just, it's like, it's funny because like, I've always known and been staunch. Like all my friends have always known I'm Aboriginal. I always stand up for things, you know, but I had this funny thing happen where like obviously after school I started doing comedy. I had this girl from high school reach out to me and go like, I just wanted to let you know, I didn't know you were Aboriginal, but I recognised that your family's really had a struggle. Are you watching the bird? He's being a fuckwit. You know, like I'm sure that your people have really had a struggle. And I thought, 'Who the fuck sends this?' Like, it's a nice—

Josh: Sounds like a DM. Thought.

Steph: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, it's a nice thought, but it's like, it's just like, that's kind of— that she would only think that because she found out that I was Aboriginal or something like that. I don't know. So you have to educate, but then you gotta— then you just gotta fucking laugh. I mean, that's funny, you know what I mean?

Josh: And also it's like there's a level of shame. There's a level of shame that people are feeling and they don't know what to do. With, with their shame. Have you, have you worked—

Tommy: is it, is it shame about how they sound? Because that, that impersonation, they sound like a fuckwit.

Josh: It's a, um, yeah, it's like if, if you have— talking about that system or the belief system, or if everything's being built on something. Yeah, we're all walking around for the most part pretty unconscious to the reality of the systems and all of that that type of stuff.

Steph: Yeah.

Josh: For you, how much is shame a part of the comedy that you do?

Steph: Oh my God, it's probably the bit— I think it is the funniest thing in the world because one of the biggest issues that we have, I think, is that people are so afraid to say the wrong thing or to ask the wrong questions because, I mean, you know, humans, we don't like difficult things. It's hard to have communication about stuff if you feel like you will say the wrong thing. So, and even to like, you know, well, I mean, especially through the government, but like, it's like everyone's so scared of saying the wrong thing. They just won't ask the question. They'll just fill the gaps themselves. You know what I mean? And there's just something so funny about watching people struggling to ask a question. It's like, ask questions. It's the only way you fucking learn. Stop forgetting, like stop thinking about your fucking ego and think about like, Progress starts with you letting your ego go, you know, and asking questions to actually get, you know, like a well-rounded idea of things. But I think white guilt and shame, those are the funniest. I mean, literally there is, I can't think of anything that I find genuinely as funny as watching somebody struggle. Like, fuck me dead, I saw this thing and like, I'm not giving shits anyway. You're allowed to identify however you want to identify. But I just, I don't, I can't explain why I knew what the case was, right? But I was at this, um, NAIDOC gig and there's this woman who for all intents and purposes looked like a white woman, right? And she had platinum blonde hair and a lot of Botox, a lot of, um, filler and all that sort of thing. But I just got the impression she'd obviously just done like a like a genetic, like an ancestry test, right? And has seen in there that she's got some Indigenous heritage and like has just gone, that's who I am now. Because it, like, it was just the most, the least woke and most awkward thing I've ever seen anyone do. There's Blackfellas everywhere, right? We're at NAIDOC and there's this stall with like, you know, I don't know, like t-shirts and stuff like that. And she's got this kid, blonde hair, blue eyes, and she looks up and it was like she wanted everyone to hear her. She goes, look, it's some of your Wiradjuri cousins. And I was like, oh, for fuck's sake. Like, just the ignorance in it is one, she's just assumed everyone's Wiradjuri. Two, she's like waiting until everyone's looking at her to be like, I'm one of you, you know. Like, it was just It was just so awkward and it was like, it was this weird thing of like, yeah, she probably has got heritage, which is great. And she can, she can absolutely own that and claim that. And that's exciting. We've got to, I mean, we've got to fucking like boost our, you know, representation and population, right? But it was just that it's some of your Wiradjuri to a whole group of straight. It was just fucking funny because she obviously still had that guilt and it was just It was funny. People just do stupid shit. People don't know how to be when they feel awkward. And that's the one thing that universally makes people awkward.

Josh: How do you reconcile? 'Cause I remember hearing the description of the coffee, tea or coffee, and it's like, it doesn't matter how much milk or whatever you put into it. Like you're Aboriginal, you're Aboriginal or whatever. I guess there's an element of that. Like what's the, How do you, I guess there's prejudice potentially even internally or from a community perspective. What are the bits? And so how do you work through that being from the outside, it's a funny thing, but also if you take the fillers out of it, you take out the blunt, like there is an element of it which there is some level of understanding around it. Do you know what I'm sort of saying?

Steph: Oh, absolutely. But that's the thing. I was like, the reason why it was so funny to me was because if she had to do it for everyone to— like, she was— it was very ego-driven, right? It's like, I fucking love that. Exactly. And that's what made it funny. It was like, well, this is all you've— you've fucked up. Like, yeah, do more research before you want to do your performance to show, you know what I mean? Like, but no, I fucking love that she came to NADOC with her child. Like, Number one, whether she was white, black, red, blue, I don't give a fuck. That is so special. And it is, you know what, this is a particularly difficult area within our communities, I think, is that the, and you can understand why, I guess. Like, so for example, my mom is very dark skin, right? And I'm sure that if I said to her, oh, we've had the same struggles, she'd be like, No, we fucking ain't. You know what I mean? Because, because there's no way that I have a level of inbuilt privilege, I guess, that comes with being lighter skin than she will ever have. However, you could also argue that I lack that privilege because I live in two worlds and nobody, like people around me don't quite let me identify with either fully. If that makes sense. Whereas she can. But when it comes to that next kind of line or level, I just don't think it's enough. I think the problem is if somebody identifies but has no contact with family, doesn't know the name of their— but even then, it's so difficult.

Josh: Yeah. Once you've got like the stolen generation, like I guess where it gets hard is it's like if you don't if you don't know this stuff, that's where it gets really hard. I mean, the generational thing is interesting because it doesn't matter fucking what culture you come from. There's always every generation, like the old, the older generation is always saying, you know, you guys are gonna fucking easy or like we had like that. It's like, yeah, that's across the board, right?

Steph: Yes. That I just, I wish I'd prepped a little bit more because I do have thoughts on this because I think I feel really bad for people who've only just found out about their heritage later in life, right? That would be so difficult because, you know, you know that there's something different about you, you want to explore it, but you've also had all of the privileges of growing up without ever knowing. So if that makes sense. So you've never had to feel that level of prejudice or that level of identity until you get to that point, that identity struggle until you get to that point, whatever it is. And so you can see why there's like a bit of resistance from the community. But at the same time, we should absolutely be arms wide open welcoming all of these people because we want to bring people together. We want our culture to be shared. And, you know, I think it's exciting that— I think it's really touching when somebody goes, I just did this ancestry thing and we've got Indigenous heritage. I want to find out everything about it. It's like, fuck yeah, that's awesome. But if they had been racist before, or if they hadn't given a shit before, you go, well, now this feels shit, you know? Yeah. So it's, it's, I think it's a really hard line.

Josh: Yeah, yeah, makes sense.

Tommy: As a comedian using humour to communicate, you know, messages, um, and then something around something as sensitive as, uh, Aboriginal culture, is there people within the community that are offended by some of the ways that you deliver some of the stuff that you're talking about?

Steph: Big time. I've avoided it pretty well up until recently, and it's so hard. Like, I've just taken a little bit of time off performing at the moment, actually, to just to build my strength because, you know, it's so hard to receive criticism from within your own community, and it's hard to know when it's kind of just a differing of opinion or when it's something that you've crossed a, you know, sort of like cultural protocol. And it's almost impossible to know where that line is. So for example, I wrote a joke, I wrote a couple of jokes where I've used offensive words that people have used against me and highlighted them to show something funny or to show— so I've got a joke, for example. I don't know if I should— can I tell a joke here?

Josh: Yeah, yeah, you can. Yeah, I wear a no joke joke policy. We're also not the same person after 880 caps. Predictable as fuck.

Steph: Um, so I've got this— oh my God, Albie, stop it! Get off me! Oh, for fuck's sake. Sorry, he's a little shit, this bird.

Tommy: Oh, there it is. Oh, it's really got a hold of your back of the head.

Steph: Yeah, exactly. Fuck off!

Josh: Can we do a montage of you yelling at Albie for Instagram?

Steph: I fucking love this. Please do. I fucking love this bird though. He's so cute. He's a little shit. Yeah, so the joke. Yeah, so I've got this joke, for example, right? So it's really stupid. I go, look, I don't like— it's like sort of halfway through a show where I've kind of spoken about how shit policy is and that. Look, I don't hate white people. I just hate people who do Contiki tours. And then I go on this and I say, you know, if you— because I feel like people who do Contiki Tiki Tours, you're not about experiencing a country. You're not trying to learn the culture, learn the language, um, or grow or experience things. You're just collecting countries for the sake of collecting countries. You know, like people who say like, oh, we did Europe. And I'm like, well, fuck, I can't go now because it's been done. Um, and then, um, but then so I go, look, if you want to, if you want to collect countries, if that's what this about for you, then you want to feel cultured, then I've got something to tell you. It's really cool. Australia has like 500 countries. So why don't you just learn a little bit about Aboriginal Australia and you can be in one city and go through like 3 different countries. In fact, I might start my own company, call it Coomtiki Tours. Now, obviously that joke works on the fact that we build up to this bit, you're laughing along, and then I go, like fucking bam, right? Because using that word is for— my phone's ringing, please don't ring me. Sorry. It works up to that point where it's a bit of a shock factor of like, kind of like, let's just remember that people are still using this word. Like, and then so I then tell the storey of why I do that joke, which is that I had written that I'd written that piece because I thought that was quite a clever joke, you know, kind of telling people to take in countries and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, you know, whatever. And then the Kuntiki bit was supposed to snap people back in. But I was really torn when I wrote the joke. So I spoke to a friend of mine, another comedian, and I said, hey, look, so this is the joke. And the reason why I'm doing this is to basically say, If you are shocked, just remember we've got the cheese on the shelf for, you know, whatever it is. And she was like, oh my God, Steph, of course you can say it. I was like, do you think so? And she goes, yeah, well you can say it 'cause you are one. And I was like, fuck, this is exactly why this joke exists, you know? And so then I extended the joke to sort of get to that point and then explain how my friend said you can tell that joke as in I can say that word because I am one, which I think is super offensive and missed the point, right? Um, and so it's like, that joke though is going to cop a lot of flak from my community because I'm using a word that has been used to keep us down. And it's like, the point of using it is for something much bigger than that, do you know what I mean? Um, but there's always going to be differing opinions on whether you can use a word purely for shock value to prove a point or whether using that word at any point kind of undermines progress or whatever. So that's probably my easiest example of it is using words to Yeah, and then the question is that I had to kind of make up in my head, and it's a really hard sort of question to make, hard question to answer, is what audience am I performing for? And am I performing for an Indigenous audience? Am I performing for a white audience? And unfortunately, it's like, you know, I would love to say I'm performing for both, but there are areas where you know, you would have to change something quite a lot to fit in this world and fit in this world. And so I'm very lucky that I have— I tour with the Aboriginal Comedy All-Stars, and when I tour with them, I talk black, you know, like I talk differently, it's all good, and talk in a vernacular that I certainly wouldn't talk with a white audience with. But I also had to try and get myself used to or okay with the fact that I am essentially writing for a white audience, and is that also okay? So it's very complicated.

Josh: Self-development and things like that, you're talking about looking after yourself. What does— I was watching one of your videos— what does learning to love myself mean to you?

Steph: I don't know, I haven't fucking learnt it yet. I don't even know if it's learning to love myself, just fucking forgiving myself. Like, I'm a very forgiving, open sort of person with other people, and, you know, I recognise you can make mistakes and still continue to grow and get better. And I think, you know, I'll hold myself to every mistake that I've ever made, even the little awkward faux pas that I've made, and never forgive myself for them or never move on from them. I just— I think that's all part of learning to love myself, is just letting that shit go and just remembering I'm a human I'm just like everyone else and perfection isn't real.

Josh: And you spoke about, um, Twitter and, uh, building out a bit of a, uh, a playlist.

Steph: Oh my God, this is so embarrassing. So, okay, so I, when I first set up my YouTube account, um, I, I was because I wanted to upload something. I didn't realise I had switched it on so it would automatically upload to Twitter. Like, so when I was putting out little bits, I was like, oh yeah, no, that's a good idea. Um, well, little did I know that fucking everything that I did on YouTube was going to be shared on Twitter. So I made this playlist when I was in a really bad way. It was like, um, learning to love myself or something. And it was just full of like fucking pop psychology videos of like, tell yourself you're worth it. You know, all of this sort of shit. And I saved, as I was saving them into this playlist to watch later, Little did I know every single time I put one in the playlist, it was putting it out on Twitter. I was like, 20 videos of like, um, uh, learn how to deal with self-doubt. Um, Steph has just put learning how to deal with self-doubt into learning how to love myself. How fucking embarrassing. So all tweeting like as separate tweets. When I saw it, I fucking deleted them all. And I was like, oh my God, I think I would've preferred if I for some reason was like making a porn playlist or some shit.

Tommy: Did anyone reach out and say, uh, baby, you all right?

Josh: What's going on?

Steph: You okay? No, I wish.

Josh: This isn't funny.

Steph: Yeah, I mean, I don't know that I think that's the thing. If somebody had been like, lol, that would have been way better. But the fact that everyone was just kind of like, well, she's obviously going through something, we'll just ignore that. You know what I mean? It was like, oh, gross.

Josh: What happens with that friendship circles with like becoming a comedian? Do you all of a sudden, do you start all hanging out and, you know, or do you like with comedians? Like, yeah, you're hanging out all the time.

Steph: I have no comedian friends.

Josh: Why do you think that is?

Steph: I don't really have any comedian friends because I'm a fucking loser. No, it's because I have no middle ground. I'm really strange. I'm either really serious or really, really Fuckin' not. And it just depends what mood you get me in. No, I don't know. I'm quite shy actually. And it's weird to say that because I am, oh, I'm loud and stuff, but I'm just quite shy.

Tommy: You deserve that one, Steph. Sorry, you had your face on Aldi.

Josh: Albi, Albi, Albi.

Tommy: Albi, sorry.

Josh: Yeah, you're right.

Steph: Good troll.

Tommy: And so you said you're serious or you're the other way. In terms of your friendship circle, your close friendship circle, if you're not sort of in that comedian bubble, what does your friendship circle look like?

Steph: I'm like the, you come to me when you need nurturing and advice. I'm the mum, or not even the mum, 'cause I'm really, really fucking unreliable and disorganized. So I'm definitely not the mum, but like I'm the, I'm like the shoulder, I guess. So yeah, sort of the, um, I've been broken up with, Steph talk me through it and I'll come, you know, pick you up, give you a big cuddle, play some music and have a sing-along and then say, he's not even worth it. You know, all of that shit.

Josh: What have you learned about yourself during 2020 and everything that's gone down?

Steph: I've learnt that I'm resilient and that I work a lot harder than I ever gave myself credit for. And I'm really proud of that because I was literally, there was a couple of weeks there where I was doing about 10 flights a week, but usually flying at least like out of interstate or out of Brisbane at least 3 days every week. And so at least I used to, I was doing probably on average about 4 or 5 flights a week. Wow. And it was so busy and I just kind of felt like I wasn't working hard because I enjoyed doing what I was doing, if that makes sense. But as soon as the lockdown started, it was like I was hit with a wave of serious fatigue. I realised I was a bit burnt out and I actually realised I had a lot of health problems that I'd been pushing aside as well. And I was really worried that I was like— I lost a lot of gigs that were supposed to give money, and so when I lost those, I was like, well, I'm not going to get through. But I found ways around it, and then I found ways to sort of promote myself to a different audience. Obviously, I think that like business-to-business and corporates are fine during this time, so I realised that I was going to have to start marketing myself in a very different way and try different things. Hence the writing and looking at writing very like long-form stuff. And I'm really proud of that. I didn't think—

Tommy: I think it's a perspective a lot of people have gained is that they're on this hill going upwards and it seemed like in hindsight, once you have to stop, that you're— you were going to tip over at one point and fall down. And so it's like that working hard burnout. It's like you— yeah, looking back now, it's like you're going to get there, and then it's like, uh, you know, grace of God, we got this reset and stillness forced upon us. Now you get a bird on your shoulder and you're living the life.

Steph: Yes. Absolutely. It's actually been such a blessing even though it's been a pain in the ass. Um, it definitely— there was a lot of, yeah, a lot of things that I think I hadn't done. I, you know, like to the point where I guess, um, like, you know, like the— hey, hey! Oh, he sounded like a dog, but it was the bird. I accidentally hit him. I didn't mean to. He just moved his hand underneath my Stop it, Albie! Step up, step up, step up.

Tommy: Great one, another one for the montage.

Josh: That was good.

Steph: This bird—

Tommy: I'm going to start saying that to you now, Josh. Step up, step up, step up, JJ.

Josh: Albie, do you think he knows what's happening?

Steph: He thinks he's the boss of me. Yeah, he does, but he's not doing it. Albie. Step up. There we go.

Josh: There we go.

Steph: Now go away.

Josh: Have you tried not saying step up and just doing what you're doing with your hand? Like, I wonder if it's more the hand being under his feet that gets him to step up rather than saying it.

Steph: Yeah, it is. But we had to, we trained him with food. So now he knows when you say it. Fuck off.

Josh: Go away.

Tommy: Steph, to finish this off.

Josh: Sorry.

Tommy: 2020, or, you know, the rest of it into 2021, what is, what is your new approach if going back to the old way was causing some issues, or it wasn't so that you weren't being mindful on how crazy it was for you?

Steph: Um, I think just got to prioritise things, um, and also, um, put more value on certain things as well. So like if I go, yes, I just say yes to everything, um, and maybe I can't do as well as I'd like to on all of things, you know, on everything, then I think I just need to be like, no, this is what I'm going to say yes to, this is what I'm going to say no to. If it's something that I think is difficult for me, maybe I'll just ask to put the value up a bit, you know, like just, just kind of just giving myself an opportunity to say no to things. Um, and understanding that that may mean that other things need to change and being okay with that. That.

Josh: Makes a lot of sense. Steph, uh, thank you for coming on the show and dealing with Albie.

Steph: No, I'm sorry, I'm so weird. Fucking bird, man. I thought I loved this bird. I don't think I like this bird anymore.

Josh: Do you want to sell Albie? We can put it up for sale.

Tommy: What would you pay for Albie?

Josh: I want to get rid of him. A grand. Wow. Where's the cage?

Steph: I mean, he came with the cage.

Josh: Okay, so it's like you're paying for the cage. What do you reckon the cage came out of? $150 for the cage?

Steph: Yeah, a bird is fucking expensive, man.

Josh: What is it? Do you have a permit for a bird?

Steph: Yeah, we got a permit.

Josh: Really?

Steph: Fuck off.

Josh: And so what? And then can he fly away or no? He's got like his—

Steph: Probably. He's got his wings clipped, although we have to wait for him to grow out a little bit. He's only a baby.

Josh: What do they actually do? How do— What are the wings clipped? What do they actually do? Or is it a bit graphic?

Tommy: Exactly what it sounds like.

Josh: Wait, you can still see his wings though.

Steph: Yeah, yeah, so when you pull them out, they're like, you just clip just the very, very, very bottom of the last two ones and it just kind of unstabilizes them. Makes me feel really guilty. Albie!

Josh: He's pissed off.

Steph: He's pissed off.

Josh: Thank you for coming on. Can you just very quickly before you go, what's the snowman? So The snowman on the tattoo, the snowman bit, why is it a snowman?

Steph: It started snowing outside when I was at the tattoo shop. I thought maybe it meant Christmas. And I went, "Fuckin' why not?" Thanks, guys. Sorry that I was a bit of a weirdo.

Josh: No, that's great.

Steph: Fuck off.

Josh: That's awesome. And so if people want to get involved and watch your stand-up, are you doing stuff online or how can people follow along?

Steph: Yeah, I will. So I've, um, I'm doing things a little bit differently to others, I think. Um, I've got a Patreon that I've set up, and it's basically— I'm really, um, open. I've got a really lovely community. We'll just talk and very open. It's kind of about, you know, I guess we talk about mental health, we talk about a whole bunch of stuff. Um, I also post sketches up there. Um, a whole bunch of stuff. I'd love people to have a look at my Patreon. Um, I also, uh, have a special kind coming out very soon, which is basically, it's like, it gets live. It's like it's streamed live for the first time that it's ever been shown. We filmed it last year, first time it's ever been shown, and I watch it with you guys. And then there's a Q&A session at the end. Well, basically, I've not, I've not seen it from start to finish. So I don't know. It's weird.

Josh: Oh, that's exciting.

Steph: And then there's like a Q&A session at the end, um, which I'm bringing my friends and family to, and they're gonna fucking roast me. So, um, just great. But like, from just like—

Josh: I'll be there, surely. I'll be—

Tommy: he's gonna be—

Steph: yeah, probably. Yeah, he'll be fucking there. And also, also, um, I will reveal my ginger boyfriend. He's never ever let me put him online or take pictures with him because he's real shy. Great.

Josh: That's great.

Steph: He's not even that ginger anymore, by the way. His mum came around recently and went You've almost completely lost all of your gingerness. So now I feel like I'm fake, but he was.

Tommy: Make him diet back. Make him go back. Diet ginger. Bring back the ginge.

Josh: Let's get the hashtag going. Thanks, Steph.

Steph: Oh, you guys are the best.

Josh: It's a daily talk show. Have a good one.

Tommy: See you guys.