#806 – What Breed Are You?/
- July 30, 2020
We chat about using books to gain perspective, finite and infinite games, which dog breed you would be, marketing and our favourite Seth Godin books.
On today’s episode of The Daily Talk Show, we discuss:
– JJ feeling better
– Reading It Doesn’t Have to Be Crazy at Work
– Using books for perspective
– Finite and infinite games
– What dog breed would you be
– Masks debates
– Another fun dog game
– Handwritten marketing copy
– Our favourite Seth Godin books
Email us: firstname.lastname@example.org
Send us mail: PO BOX 400, Abbotsford VIC 3067
The Daily Talk Show is an Australian talk show and daily podcast by Tommy Jackett and Josh Janssen. Tommy and Josh chat about life, creativity, business, and relationships — big questions and banter. Regularly visited by guests and gronks! If you watch the show or listen to the podcast, you’re part of the Gronk Squad.
This podcast is produced by BIG MEDIA COMPANY. Find out more at https://bigmediacompany.com/
It's the daily Talk Show Episode
806 Happy Thursday gronk What's happening? What's going on? I'm gonna just do
a run out cause I'm feeling better today
yeah you're up and about today Yeah. Any any implemented any changes from yesterday? Any kind words coming through the Instagram account you were feeling a bit low if you didn't watch yesterday it's
good to Derek actually just messaged me to write back. He's worried about me. He said he's going to Office works. Do I need anything good like that? Yeah, I mean, that's
that is a friend is
my granddad office works. What do you need?
Right. What's another thousand on the credit?
No, but I did. I did take the afternoon off, which was a nice,
yeah. What does that look like?
So I mean, it's not too dissimilar to working to be honest. It's just transitioning to that. You could look at it two ways, either. You're gonna switch off, or I'm always not doing something.
Well, I will say because if you give it the parameters of I'm taking the avo off. It could be just removing a level of feeling a level of pressure, like you may just dial the anxiety down by stone saying that to yourself and so I always find it quite funny because you were still on the text and you were still posting Instagram stories and you're still reading, you know, quiet, you're doing everything you normally do.
But if you felt different about it, I was on the bed. I was lying on the bed.
What if if I just like say if I decided to take the rest of the elbow often I just said would you do it?
But why don't you take the elbow off?
I could take the cover off what time from one like two
o'clock talk? Why don't you do it from stride offset one o'clock on a bit too
late. What are you gonna do? Jess might be grumpy About
what? What's it? Yes. So what have you gone? I've gotta, just gonna, I'm gonna give just the whole day
but it makes it easy. Not Yeah,
I don't even mean every single. Oh, I know that in yeah Mason ladies cubby house and he'll be I mean, he eats like a kid so I can just imagine he's got a slice apple and he's like all of Yeah, it's all pieces.
And one of friend of mine her mom has a business that used to do something called aduna day and I was thinking about it this morning. During the day you wake up you feel it could be mental health related I think it wasn't specifically it was just if you felt shit it was it back when it when I got told this. There wasn't as much dialogue around how you feel it has a mental healthier, anxious, all that. Yeah. But I think it does. It's like that is the during the day is can I just jump in bed. I don't want to do all the work today. And I just want to disconnect a bit. So but also
by actually saying this is what you're going to do. If you do do work, it's a win. But if it's the other way around, if you're still working, and you're in that state, you could be like, I'm just Looking around here, I'm just reading a book. This isn't work.
Yeah, yeah. And so then that, that just saying the words and then just sort of dialling it all back. So it's almost taking away the pressures of a work day. And so the book you're reading yesterday, when I saw you doing that, I was like, Ah, that's good. That's good. That's a great book for where you're at at the moment. And this
is the this is the book it's by the guys who founded Basecamp used to be called 37 signals. 20 year old software business now I think is 20 years old. It's been around for a long time.
It is it is crazy. You you gifted that book to me. I read it left it in the sun and the cover disconnected from the, the the spine of it, and I was like, Fuck, but I got most of the way through.
I feel like I was slightly worried giving it to you because there was the sense of there's a few things that are controversial in here. Yeah, that if you're not all across, like I would be worried maybe And potentially reading this at the age of 20. Because it's like he hasn't really because it's like, you know, saying no to meetings. It's like if Mason ever says no to a meeting, I'm gonna fuck off. You know what I mean? I could imagine he reads this book. It's like, Hey, man, I could contact you today as I look work, you know,
look, look your revenue goals. I don't believe in them. We don't need revenue. We tried it. And it and you know, it was a lot of anxiety. And so we're trying to dial back the anxiety. So I don't care about your revenue goal, Josh.
Yeah, I mean, so on the cover of the book, it says it like sort of has a big cross out of all of these things that says 80 hour weeks, packed schedules, super busy, endless meetings, overflowing inbox. I can imagine fan service creating a good story about his inbox. I can't get to email too much. You want? I bet? Yeah. I can use a few few weeks off asking for a higher count, which is like a a new way of looking at email. Might you Haven't even worked out old email while you look at old email before you go to new email anyway. Love you saves, overflowing inbox, unrealistic deadlines, can't sleep Sunday afternoon emails, no time to think stuck at the office, all nighters and my probably favourite chats blowing up, which is, which is normally a brand value.
And what was the takeaway if you were to have one takeaway from that? Well, the state that you're in so this feeling a bit
bit down a bit like, you know, you were concerned about future or just feeling those anxieties of just putting the weight of the pressure, right. And so this is definitely the antidote for that. And so even just reading the contents, not the thing with nonfiction is and I know I said that I was going to read some fiction, and Liam McClelland actually sent a DM saying lovely episode. Like, definitely read fiction, but already gotten into this one. But the good thing about nonfiction are I can the I might sound like a bit of a dummy here. But the secret equation for reading nonfiction is reading the contents first.
The contents. Okay. Well, I mean, they're all nonfiction books have that. Yes, I do.
Yeah. So but this one is like very good. I think the it's things like So first, it's crazy at work a quick bit about us. This is essentially just the chapters, right? Yeah. I did an Insta story at Josh Johnson if you want to follow along on my journey to this career ambition. We have to now if you want to follow I was. I was pretty pumped about my Insta stories. I thought they were good. I was like, this is something and a few people dm and it did give me anxiety to write back to everyone. So I haven't yet but it did feel good. Like, yeah, this is great the bits that you've underlined and refreshing, but it's like, bury the hustle.
Happy pacifists, out, go, no goals. Don't change the world. Make it up as you go. comfies. Cool. So you get a good sense just reading the contents around the type of thing that it's going to give you. Where do you land with this stuff? Because I feel like you're one too and it's a skill of yours to consume something and then take it so the one you've been on recently is the the wigs wildly important goals. And then we speak to someone like Nathan Chen from founder who talks about the traffic light system and he's, you know, he's coaches told him that and so then he's implementing that and so
great. It was the book that he recommended. I'm still I've been reading it listening to that audiobook. Good, but where do I land? Yeah, no, good question. I think that for me, I use The even though I'm in extremes, I will use books to try and realign or just give some perspective. So I feel like say using the four Disciplines of Execution, which is what you're talking about, which is talking about the wildly important goals and having leads and lags and all these different types of metrics to sort of understand your business, accountability meetings, all of that sort of stuff. This here just gives the other side of the coin because if you just read all of that stuff, you can think that there's no other option and that if you don't do if you don't have a weak if you don't have all these things, you can't have a successful business.
Well, if you don't have a if you don't have a goal, you don't have a destination in mind. How Where are you going to go and know where you're driving the fucking streets
and so I did.
I The the gold thing? I don't know. So they're very much they've tried the whole at base camp, they tried the whole setting goals. I think that it is important for us the goal bit because there needs to be a central thing that we're all understanding and what we're trying to do. But I think that it's um, the tricky bit is that we, I think that we are in the compass game, we're in a, this is the direction we're going in and go full steam ahead. Whereas the tangible goals around revenue or the amount of downloads you have I speaking to one podcast the other day, and he was talking about growth, and we were chatting about how to grow your podcast. And I asked the question that you asked a lot, which is like, what is the number? What's the number that you want to get to that then you'll be happy.
And I asked that because I put it back on people that say that you don't have enough money. You don't have enough numbers to monetize. And then the quick question then is, well, what's the number?
Yeah, and so most
most people don't because that's, that's the thing. You can make money, starting in podcasts with no followers. If you have a good brand behind you, if you're an influencer, you probably get it sponsored for the whole thing. Or you could probably do it the other way. You got no brand noise, no. Sort of influence. But somehow you con someone into it, like a million ways to skin it. I don't want to do that. What did he say to you? When you?
Yeah, so yeah, I wasn't sure on the exact number. And so but I think that that is the common problem. And then it's also identifying what's that number going to do for you? And it's not too dissimilar to if you're trying to make money, it's like if I get 50 grand, like before Bree and I went away to go overseas like we had 50 grand that we had that we spent throughout the trip. It doesn't do anything like it's not
just on July Yeah, that was Friday, and
you're not too far off, but the that 50. Like, I think that there's a lot of people who think that if I have X amount in the bank, that all of a sudden, that will be where I have some level of comfort, but like, expense it off.
And so what about the people that make a fuckload of money have these realisations and then a falling back on all the cash? Then they going? Well, it's obviously not about that. But then I've got all this money. Where do you think when you read a book like this that is quite impactful and gives a great perspective of the other side of the coin? And then you go, the situation we're in? Where How does that make sense to you? How do you reconcile not having a bank account full of cash or an audience isn't big as Joe Rogan? And then when do you what do you do with that?
Yeah, so I think that it's not talking about it in this book, but Simon Sinek, who wrote the book and had the famous TEDx talk, start with why he has a book called finite and infinite games. And so finite and infinite games. That's two different types of games that you basically this is like game theory. So you have two different types of games. One of them, we know the players, and we know the game. And so for instance, basketball, we understand, wait, how you get three points and how all that sort of stuff works. It's very easy to measure, and you know, your competitors, you know, who you are playing against. Whereas what we're playing is an infinite game. And infinite game doesn't have a like, necessarily an outcome. It's not outcome focused. competitors can change or rivals can change over time. And it's very much about it's being less than focused on those very specific goals. So when people say, the iTunes charts or the apple podcast charts, that's a finite game that people applying, which is like, Okay, if I get subscribers really quickly, I can then get into the charts. But then what does the charts do for you? And so for the finite versus infinite thing is very good because and that was my frustration around the podcast, rancour. It's trying to take something that is a infinite game, which is building an audience and serving people and trying to make it a finite game where it's like, every month, these are the winners. Here's the people who are on top. And so for me, what this book does, even though this isn't that book, it still makes me recognise that you don't have to enter into the finite games. And so yeah, gone. Do you
think that people who do you think that people may have goals set around finite games? And they're not? What they're not willing to pursue the infinite game?
Well, yeah, I think that that's the thing. So the difference between a finite and an infinite game is a finite game can be won and loss lost. But then it also doesn't, it can't necessarily continue. It's going. So if you if you are playing the finite game, when something like a pandemic happens, all of a sudden the rules change, and when the rules change, that game can be disrupted. We've even seen that in fucking sport, like, these things aren't immune to that, whereas the infinite game, building audiences, serving people, all of that stuff, the infinite game stuff is transferable in any time in you know, in life, and so I think the They
mixed in with the, the why Solomon's previous book? It's like, I mean, that's that's a good combination. If you're understanding why then playing the infinite game, it but then you see the challenge. So what's the challenge? Even while you've identified those two things, you know your why you know what game you're playing and it's the infinite one. And then it's the you, you're the thing in the middle of that, that still feels everything
and potentially get confused into thinking that you're meant to be playing the finite game, or you could be judged on the finite game. So people who would compare or you see reviews or whatever it is, you see people talking about, they've made a judgement call on it's like, they're watching a soccer game. And they say why don't they just pick up the Why don't they just pick up the ball the fucking idiots right like, there is a misalignment between the rules. And that's what I see is not Gaelic football match. I think that that's like part of the frustration is like, for me when I hear criticism or I hear feedback of people thinking about it in the infinite game or not, are they just comparing is and I think there are people who are, but some of the things that stood out to me. So this so this is finite and infinite Games has nothing to do with this specific book. But to give you sort of a sense, so the book is called it doesn't have to be crazy at work. One of the things I underlined which is an infinite game mindset is set out to do good work set out to be fair in your dealings with customers employees and, and reality. And so if you look at that, if you focus on the finite game, so the final game is we're going to make $150,000 this month. The problem when you focus on The finite game is, at what cost? At what cost? Are you willing to make that hundred and $50,000? The base camp, the author's talk about, you know, customer retention. And so one way that people can turn on customer retention is making it way harder for people to get out of their contract or to cancel their service. Yeah. So when you go on to Adobe, or if you go on to any service, how, like SAS product, how easy is it to cancel? If it's hard, they're probably playing the finite game. They're wanting to make sure that they have the revenue coming in right now at the detriment of people who don't even necessarily want to be there. And
then they can't work out or cancel. So they go hard on sales to get people through the trap door, and then everyone's trying to work out how to get out they fucking can't get out.
And so then you go Ask. And so I think that part of the friction that we sometimes feel is when people aren't playing the infinite game, they plan on playing the finite game. They're like, how do I make money? How do I, how do I monetize this relationship he or add fees here and like I deserve to be paid like these things? I think that we need to look at things holistically. I think for us, what we've done is we always come in with the posture of how are we serving people? How are we how are we supporting the people around us? And you can sniff out someone who's playing the finite game, because it's always comes back to those specific needs that they're trying to do right now, which won't necessarily serve them for the future.
And then, I mean, how do you how do you set out to do something? Because you see the people that really win are the ones that are doing what they love. They're not sleazy salespeople. And they're making good money. It's like they're being rewarded for this great thing that they've, they put me out into the world. And so I see that more wind than the hard salesperson that's just closing deals and deals at any time, right? At any cost. And so,
like, whatever, like, what is an actual, like, I think that what we're in is in, we're in the relationships game, where it like, I'm proud of all the great people we have around us. And it's funny that our intuition our gut instincts on these things are normally spot on. And you see and what I think the reason why these books are great, is it's very easy to fall into the finite game when you're having enough conversations with people and they're asking questions about certain things or they're trying to, you know, you know, growth for growth's sake, like what does it all mean? So anyway, yeah, Definitely recommend it doesn't have to be crazy at work and then also in finite and infinite games.
I think the the way you were laying out that would feel better for an individual or for yourself for us takes longer. But then it's but then if you're then it makes sense if you are in if you've decided that this is the long haul, we're doing 10 years this show it it just becomes a small portion of a 10 year pace. But if you don't have that understanding of the longer play, that's where some anxiety can come in, because you're like, I wanted all this success yesterday or one year ago, and I fuckin I need to start now. I need I need it to blow up or you know, all those things. I need to be a unicorn.
And then it also like I think that it it doesn't allow for the light and shade of things. It's all too It's too black. Come wide. And so yeah, but in saying that there is there are moments where, and this is like meta modernism, which Dr. Jason Fox has spoken about on, you know, spoken to on our show before it's like, you can enter into the states. So you can enter into and a finite game temporarily or you can oscillate between finite and infinite like, is it but as long as you know that you are playing the infinite game, and then you recognise that this finite game won't come at the detriment but it's actually the game that needs to be played. Now, that's like the little bit of the head fuck is there is there is an oscillation that can happen where you are playing at a short period of time. The finite game Hmm, that makes sense. So do you think people think I'm fucking wack?
Yeah, I think I mean, the Find out the infinite game thing has been one that you sort of went hard on early, probably six months ago. Yeah. I mean, this simple concepts were but how do you? How do you swallow them and actually digest them and make sense of it? And so I think if you were to look at it, if you are struggling to lose weight, it's like, what gold do you have? What is the period of time? Or where are you wanting to go? How quickly is it? If it's very quick, it's probably going to slip into a finite area, or it could, it could trip you up to play a finite game. So I need money by next month. How can I do it today? And who can I call to ask to help me with what I need? And it's like me, me me.
And you can tell this like mile away right? necessarily, oh, kids effect I empathise,
we've done it. And because it's like, it's actually how can we serve our need? Quick, smart, because it seems and but then it's like, you know, it's like, I mean, this is where the people In religion is like giving back gives to you it's like doing things for others. It's like that is that is a truth that when you shift the focus from all about me and what I need to What do you need? How can I help you? There's a reward back there's there's something that comes back to you. And so it's the balance
is a balance. We were talking before the show we were actually talking about it yesterday. What dog breed would you be if you were a dog?
Yeah, it's a fun man. Look up dog breeds in Google and you've just got a whole plethora of dogs. Just a swipe across the top.
So don't brains. Can I get one for you? Yeah, please pick up for me. I'm just I'm just scrolling through. I know what you are straightaway. What am I you're a Siberian Husky.
Oh, hang on. Why is this a huge thing? Saurabh adult seven Robbie dog. What am I osirian
Mason is a bernese Mountain dog. Are you big cuddly fella? My mate had two of them though a huge
huge bernese dude conspiracy Jimmy would be a Doberman.
Yeah, yeah, dude, if you think burn bernese Mountain dogs aren't big. You've lost a mind.
They're quite small. Dude.
They come and they're like, Oh, look at that cute like small little like, about the size of a mid, you know, mid range Labrador. And how old is that? Oh, three months. Oh, wait like six months time, a year's time. Huge, heavy, like, thick sit not like a Doberman style but just like a king size. Labrador. That's 70 kegs and shits the size of a can of
chum. So why wouldn't so what am i
homie I like because Jess called you the Chihuahua.
No, definitely not a Chihuahua. But if you I reckon none of that you can
kind of give it to yourself. I'll give you I'll give you a shot. I'm looking at sharpei
s h A. Ye sharpei p i
that's me. I needed
a bit a bit about Yeah, yeah, they're all pitches.
Oh my god an Afghan hound is hilarious and Hound got long hair. What's
Yeah, he's Yeah, he's a bit of a shitshow Oh, now I reckon you're a beagle. Because you actually look quite young. kind of cute. Very fuckin across everything. You know, like a big ol sniffs out dog treat through a fucking psycho. Yeah, that's my you know Like, you've kept your youth your skin's really nice. And not your scalp, but you know you still got you got. Yeah. And so you're you're a bagel man. And then that
was so what's so what's j Bay then we lock in j Bay's
all right? A dash hound
because he is the most Hip Hip person on our team. Believe under
dash hound like George I don't think he's you know, it doesn't get the gym. He's not the fittest guy on Earth, but he's still gonna you know, reasonable rig.
is a yummy fat.
just that easy viscerally because he looks he looks lame, but he he's very lame.
Love to be around them. People love to be around dash. How do you
think he's got enough George has a long enough torso. To be nice doesn't mean you don't you don't fit the sort of layout of a bagel. Nor do I have a What was it? What was it? What was I know you did? Yeah. Your accent your written bagel? Yeah sort of look like a bagel?
I forgot. Remember Did you have you heard about like so um, I saw her on with his Instagram Insta stories. A montage of news reports. Yeah, about two words when you put them together that have been really making the rounds lately and it's very funny.
Yeah, right. Have you heard about this? No. What is that? So?
masks the mask. debate.
The mask, debate.
The mask debate, the masturbate.
masturbate. Yeah. And so there's a montage of about 15 different news outlets, especially the American accent. It sounds like they saying mathematics By the mastermind right yeah,
that is great the on the dog thing another fun game to deal with he might go around the room and you have to bark.
So you have to you need to do bark and everyone decides what dog you are based on your back.
Should we do that now? You just do what you do want me to go okay okay
I was just
Yeah sure. I just what do you think that so you were a Siberian Husky by the way so I think that you there were I wasn't a Siberian Husky that's for sure. breeze on a meeting but I'll still do it.
Either that or a be shown freeze when that you get from chadstone Shopping Centre
Now that I don't I don't think that it
is in shopping centres yet
Yeah, I mean, oh my god Can I just say I got a I got the Can I just see if I can get this? Can I just see if I can go get it
to you so he's just left he's microphone.
Sorry for the delay.
Little sniffling noise we're gonna need to get tested.
got to get a letterbox drop yesterday. Can you say that? It was a it's just a little pamphlet. Oh, it looks like oh my god handwritten notes been delivered to me. I miss it all. This is hilarious. So this house that were in just got sold, and the new owners have taken over. And so the people who sold the company have nothing to do with this house anymore. They've put in the letterbox. This has handwritten a quotes letter, sorry I missed you I may have, I may have a buyer for your property and was hoping to speak with you. Please call me on blah, blah, blah, as I eat, and then at the bottom, the best bit is it says, This is not a general straight drop. It's like that is the foreigner Academy, sales, sales, sales, sales, even trying con people that I've had written this and really put it in the letterbox to make sense of it all.
I've had that too. So I think I spoke about it a while ago, there's this book called The boron letters. I
got a paper recommended that yes,
got paper recommended this familiar aid. So it's basically I mean, so if you look at the book, this book cost me like 45 bucks. It is the ugliest book you'll ever say. Right? It's actually it was printed by Amazon. You probably can't see it. But the lettering is all smart. Like it's blurry, it looks like shapes. And then it literally
you could get it done at some office work. So again, could you could just it'd be like them just printing pages and then binding them for you.
And so he I don't know if he can if he can read this here, probably not. But there's a right there. Basically it says, a handwritten or typed address, no label. And so when it comes to preparing, if you want to get someone in from a sales letter perspective, this guy who wrote this book, he wrote this book in jail, he he sold so many of these products and wasn't able to deliver on them, that he went to jail. And these are the letters that he wrote to his son about how to market and how to copyright. It's very interesting. But it did remind me By i mean i think that's the feels like the finite game doesn't it?
ends up ends up in jail.
Well, he says interesting though, because I underlined it. Some of the things I underlined was you can grab attention without cheating without making the right real sorry, reader feel ripped off. Sounds good. But then another thing he said. Let's make it makes the letter A little bit more personal yet. I won't read this whole book, but it's very interesting fact. Can I just recommend underlining books? in books? Yep. your eyelid. You can pin a grey led just to give you options. It's good though. Because you can go I could go through the boron letters and read the whole thing in half an hour. Just looking at the shipment. I underlined Yeah,
good point. So you could just quickly skim through the shit that jumped out at you.
Love it. I mean, this guy talks about Yeah, he Making money which is literally underlined how to make money. You did. He said the money is where the enthusiasm is.
Yeah. What do you enthusiastic about?
Is that for other people or for you? Yeah, I think it's for you. Yeah. What people want to buy people we're trying to give the right answer. They felt they should drink. Yeah, this is that whole thing. Remember we're talking about baristas you ask a barista when they're starting to work, you know?
Yeah, what's their coffee order and they all say long blacks. That's what you want to be seen as the you want to be seen as the long black drinker.
Rory asked, which Seth Godin book. Should he start on if it was to write a second book? Yeah, I think
are you feeling a bit down? Because then the dips good? Yeah. Yeah.
So the three books that I love by Seth there's one called the Icarus deception, right one to start on? Yeah.
And so literally what I started On JJ
and so the Icarus deception I whilst reading that quit my radio job. Sorry I was fired up after listening to that and winning and you wanted to fly like
what is it? The Icarus is that Yeah,
so the idea is that there's the Icarus was his fucking bird or some shit had wings, you I'm gonna fucking butcher this story. But basically they said do not fly too high because if you fly too high, your wings like the wax of your wings will melt and your your crash. But then what Seth was saying was the story it actually changed. The original story said, but also don't fly too low. Because where it's low is where the ocean is and the and the the water from the sea will make your wings heavy annual crash. And so it was talking about the industrial age. And how over time we're getting taught to Don't, don't go to too high. Don't try and reach for, you know, above you. So yeah, don't go too low. Exactly. Don't go too long. You'll Fuck it.
In Greek mythology, Icarus is the son of the master craftsman. Daedalus, the creator of the labyrinth Icarus in his father attempt to escape from Crete by means of wings that his father constructed from feathers and wax. Yeah, it's like it looks like a you know, that sort of old old style mythology. Man, half man, half winged species. But anyway, that's, that's so that's
the death garden book. The other one out there. The other one that changed my life was poke the box. Yeah, which poke you poke the box. The main line out of that that stuck with me was pick pick yourself. So everyone's waiting To be picked, everyone's waiting for fuckin
you know, in general tend to say you're the Bachelor.
Yeah, exactly. Bachelorette. It's about especially It couldn't be more relevant than today.
But yeah, I think Yeah, I even think for job interviews for, you know, just if you want if you want to start a business Yes, sure. But even working within a business, how do you just pick yourself to stand out and those two Icarus deception poke the box? And also
Yeah, the dip is great. And it's a quick it's a quick right if you have the audio book, it's under three hours. So yeah. Anyway, was that to have I gone to if we if we were to deconstruct the two moods from yesterday and today, is this a manic episode like it is?
I got seven post. Mr. 97 posted a video of you from one year ago in the same state. human experience is one of being up and down with cyclical too
Don't you think like I reckon if you look at all these things happen at the exact same time so it's like winter, fattening eating all of those things happen and it's like I feel like it's just a it's a bit groundhog isn't it
but if you're asking if it was up and down Yes it is. But you okay we got whiplash here your Yeah, yeah. No, I'm feeling I'm feeling pretty good feeling I'm feeling good.
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