Heath Davidson On Acceptance & Doubt

Tommy: It's The Daily Talk Show, episode 790.

Josh: Special guest joining us today on the show, Heath Davidson.

Tommy: Buddy, welcome.

Heath: How are we, boys?

Josh: Yeah, good, mate. Uh, we're, we're all doing all right in lockdown. Uh, I know you're sort of down the coast, uh, in lockdown also in Victoria. How's, how's things travelling for you, buddy?

Heath: Um, good, man. Uh, it's It's really interesting for me. Obviously, I'm a professional tennis player and I travel 6 months of the year most years. So having this lockdown has sort of given me some time to be at home and just sort of relax a bit, which is really good. And it's been good for my mental health. But yeah, definitely, definitely keen to be able to get out again and head out with the boys and have a cheeky one or two and get some normality back into life.

Tommy: Yeah, and so what is your routine like? Like, I can imagine as a gold medal winner, like, there's a certain routine that you have to get to. People talk about the 5 AM club and shit like that. Are you getting up at 5 in the morning, or what do you— what's the deal?

Heath: Not quite 5 AM. I'm normally up at around 6, 6:30 just to get my brekkie in and have a coffee, get ready for training, and then I'm off to training from about 9 till 3 every day. Um, so on-court stuff, gym stuff. Fitness stuff, and then home, relax, and do it all again. So that's pretty much every day, 6 days a week. And yeah, just that's my routine. A little bit of PlayStation here and there, and I can squeeze it in.

Josh: So you've partnered with Cabri for the smartwatch campaign encouraging Aussies— yeah, you're encouraging Aussies to take care of themselves mentally and physically. I mean, now is the time to look inward. It's almost like, as you said, your routine's changed, so we're all forced to kind of look inward. Has it been something that you've been— you mentioned mental health. Are you looking more inward than normal?

Heath: Yeah, in a little bit. I mean, I'm obviously very flat out most of the time, so yeah, this has— this time has given me a bit of time to reflect on my mental health and getting my body right, because obviously being on the road all the time, you're never really 100%. So Yeah, it's just really good and I'm really thankful to Cabris for letting me be a part of this smartwatch campaign, which is obviously really good for athletes and really good for everyday Aussies to just get some light-hearted fun activities and you can track your sleep and your steps and all that sort of stuff. So yeah, it's really cool.

Tommy: From a day-to-day perspective, I always talk on the show about my social anxieties, like going and fucking getting coffee or shit like that, can like, I can really create a storey and make it difficult. You know, going into the lift, all of that sort of shit. I can imagine, uh, being in a wheelchair, having an extra thing to be thinking about, um, could potentially be just another thing to be worrying about. Is that something like, for you, day to day, how many little things happen, or what are some of those little moments throughout the day where you, you think about that stuff?

Heath: Um, it's just like, I mean I'm a pretty open and comfortable person with myself. So I'm not really, I don't really have much anxiety or anything like that. But I mean, this whole social distancing, being in wheelchairs is definitely interesting. Obviously getting into lifts, it's pretty hard to social distance when you're in a wheelchair and you're sitting right next to my doubles partner while we're going up the lift, Dylan Alcott. But other than that, I mean, it's just the things where, I guess going to the shops has been a little bit more difficult because I don't want to go when there's a lot of people there because I have respiratory issues as well due to my disability. So if I get sick with COVID it potentially could be a lot worse for me than others. So yeah, I mean, it's just sort of a few little changes that you have to make. If I drive down the shop to go get some dinner or whatever and there's 300 people in the shop, I'm obviously not having that for dinner.

Tommy: Yeah, sure. Have you— I managed to talk about Uber Eats nearly every episode. Are you a guy that gets food delivered? What's your go-to?

Heath: Oh, there's definitely a good couple of hundred bucks being spent on Uber Eats a week at the moment. And because of all this stuff that's going on, my Uber Eats at home has got mad good. So, been eating a fair bit of Mexican and stuff like that, trying to not get fat. That and just stay healthy and whatnot. But yeah, Mexican's probably my go-to, and I don't mind a bit of Chinese.

Josh: So there's, there's all these annoying athletes like Michael Phelps who pigs out on pizza and anything he wants.

Tommy: You said 10,000 calories a day.

Josh: Usain Bolt eating, you know, fried chicken in the Olympic Village. I mean, you're in training mode. You were, you were on your way to the Olympics for 2020, which is now pushed to 2021. I mean, what's your diet look like? Are you one of those annoying athletes?

Heath: Um, I think I could be one of those annoying athletes. When I was in Rio in 2016, I think I had Macca's every day, um, because they've got a McDonald's in the village. But I do love it. Yeah, I do love a cheeky cheeseburger and, um, a bit of pizza and stuff like that. But just trying to like obviously watch the calories intake, calorie intake, considering we're not training as much as we have been or could be. So, um, I'm pretty lucky I've managed to keep the weight off and yeah, stuff like that. So I am a very big junk food eater and I do very much love the milk chocolate from Cadbury's.

Tommy: The, um, like building strength and like, I guess from an athletic perspective, how much of like— because you've got like fucking ridiculous arms. I was watching videos last night, not in a creepy way.

Heath: They're pretty decent.

Tommy: And so is that something that you had to do based on the athletic stuff, or is that just built in being in a wheelchair all the time?

Heath: I think it has a little bit to do with genetics, but I guess it's sort of the same as your guy— you guys both probably have reasonably strong legs because they're being used every day. So it's similar for us. I just use my upper body, so therefore my upper body is going to be probably stronger than the average bloke or female. So, um, not to say that I don't love going to the gym and working on my beach muscles because everyone wants to look good without a shirt on. So it doesn't help my tennis career at all, but it makes me feel good.

Josh: So have you got, uh, one of those Roger Federer arms that's like— it almost looks like a a fake arm's been popped onto him because it's so— his forearm is so big. I mean, you're doing the wheeling, so you're sort of strengthening both sides. What's your measurements?

Heath: I probably couldn't give you my measurements, but I do look like I have a tennis ball in each bicep. And yes, the right arm, the right arm is definitely bigger than the left arm, obviously, because it's my racket arm and I'm right-handed. So, but if you really want a big difference in arm size, look at Rafa Nadal's. His left arm is ginormous compared to his rider.

Tommy: Yeah, from a sport perspective, uh, how did you come to pick tennis as, as your sport?

Heath: Um, man, now you're taking me back. I was 14, I think, and I was a really overweight kid. Um, didn't really do much physical activity and sort of just went down to my local tennis club, uh, down because I grew up in Mentone, um, and started playing tennis and That's when I met Dylan Alcott and we started playing tennis together. And it was pretty much all just to get out there and get active. And was lucky enough to be somewhat talented at the sport and played a little bit for my junior career, probably about 5 years when I was younger, and then had a big hiatus and came back 6 years ago now. And yeah, just love the sport and wouldn't do anything other than I'd love to play football, but obviously not being able to kick is a bit of an issue. So yeah, tennis it is for me.

Josh: So I mean, take us back. So that's how many years, like 18 years ago that you were about 14, 19 years ago? I mean, at that time I could imagine society was slightly different. You know, there's been a lot of work around helping people with disability live in, you know, a comfortable life. When you roll into a club What's— is it a specific type of club? Is it someone that can guide you who is, you know, in a wheelchair and wants to get you out on the court? What was the land like back then?

Heath: Well, we were sort of just really lucky, I guess. Back then, we— well, my dad took me down to the local tennis club, which wasn't really wheelchair friendly. It had two flights of stairs to get to the bathroom and stuff. But we were lucky enough to meet a guy by the name of Marco Percy, who had never coached anyone in a wheelchair. Been there before, never really had anything to do with anyone with a disability, and just said, yeah, why not, let's give it a go. And he was my coach and Dylan's coach for pretty much all of our junior careers, and he still has a lot to do with my career now. I'm really thankful that these days the inclusion is so much better, and we do have sort of like venues now that are built which are all wheelchair accessible. And I think it's just the way the world's going. And there are a lot more players that are interested in coaching that are in wheelchairs. And there's just a massive gathering now with disabled people in sport, which is huge.

Josh: As a 14-year-old, did that play on your mind when you were heading down there?

Heath: Yeah, a little bit, but it's one of those things, like, more that back then I didn't really understand and know that we could be professional athletes really at all because you never saw it on TV, you never really heard about it. We only got the, like, brief little news when the Paralympics was on back in those days. We weren't included in any of the Grand Slams or anything like that, so it I didn't think it would become something I could do for a career. And it's just really cool these days to be able to, like, switch on the TV around Aussie Open time and see the likes of Dylan Alcott, the other top players in the world, myself on TV. And if that helps anyone with a disability want to get out and be active, then we're doing our jobs.

Tommy: When you go out to schools or when you're doing a presentation and you need to bring some level of motivation, where do you go? Where do you think people connect from a motivation perspective?

Heath: I think I— first off, I love going out to schools and talking to kids and stuff like that. It's one of my passions because I had a bit of a troubled childhood and sort of went off the rails a little bit when I was a late teenager. Into my early adulthood. And I just think that I can relate to kids, like teenagers and stuff, in a lot of ways, and how life can throw curveballs at you. And I guess I'm proof that you can pretty much go from having a somewhat decent career to having nothing for a long time, and then finding the love for the sport again and turning your life around. So, um, yeah, just I think my storey in that sense gets kids involved and gets kids like interactive and want to talk and just know that, you know, you can be going through bad times and you can turn it around.

Josh: I mean, kids can say or can ask some sort of dumb questions. Is there any that get thrown your way that you've been fascinated that kids are curious about you and your life and how you live it?

Heath: Schools are fun because kids do ask pretty funny questions. One kid asked if I could be an astronaut and I said possibly, I'm not smart enough but maybe. It's just like the standard, can you drive a car? Yes, I can, I use hand controls instead of using my feet. When you go to like high schools, there's obviously other questions that get asked and the answer to them is yes. Yeah, they're just interested. I mean, most of the time it's not even about sport, it's just about how I get on with my daily life. Like, do I sleep in a normal bed? Yes. Only things I really can't do is reach up on high shelves and kick a footy, which sucks. But yeah, you make do and I've learned to live with it and I wouldn't change who I am and I wouldn't change that I have a disability.

Josh: I mean, it sounds like that you're living in your reality and you're accustomed to it. It's been something that, you know, I read that you'd had your disability since you were 5 months old. And do you get curious at the kids and their sort of interest to understand how you were coping? I could imagine that they're seeing a different reality from their own. So we're all looking at people thinking about ourselves and projecting that out. Is there any lessons that you've learned from having a disability, being in a wheelchair for your life, that you think that other people haven't got, that they can't gauge?

Heath: I don't think there's anything that I guess I think that I've got that other people don't got. I think I just accepted who I was a long time ago, and once I accepted that I was in a wheelchair and this was going to be my life, then I could move forward. But I'm never going to sit here, and I would never sit here and say that my life's been worse than anybody else, because we've all got challenges, we've all gone through troubles. And my challenges might be difficult to me but easy for somebody else, and like, your challenges might be difficult to you and I might think they're easy too. But yeah, I mean, growing up with a disability was difficult in a sense. I mean, I did get teased at school. There were certain things that I couldn't do. My parents decided to send me to a school that was two-story and I had to get up and down stairs, which was a pain. But it was, yeah, I mean, I wouldn't change anything in my life. It's made me who I am today. And I've said in any of my motivational talks or any school that I've ever been to, if anybody wants to get in touch and just have a chat if they're going through some tough times. I'm open to talk. I'm not going to push you away. It's something that I'm passionate about and I just want to help people.

Josh: So I loved your point there of accepting who you are because I think that's what we all need to go through at some point, whether it's, you know, viewing our own body, where we've come from, you know, our upbringing. That moment you said, you mentioned you accepted who you are. Do you remember that moment? Is it a day? Is it a moment that you're down the shops?

Heath: It was a couple of weeks when I was probably around 16. I've got a disabled brother as well. He's a couple years older than me. He's intellectually disabled, so I never really had that sort of sibling love and I could discuss stuff with him and what I was going through. But I was lucky enough to find my best mate to this day. He had a disabled— he has a disabled sister as well, so we were very like already on the front foot. And yeah, when I was about 16, obviously just had all those questions. Why me? Why this? Like it's so much harder than everybody else's life. And I guess talking to him and just having a really good support network through my family and friends and stuff like that, it's, it's sort of just, it was stop feeling sorry for yourself, if that makes sense. Like, this is it, this is what you've been, the cards you've been dealt. You can either sit here and feel sorry for yourself and wallow in self-pity, or you can get on top of it and really try and do something with your life. And I think that was pretty much the turning point for me in the sense of not letting stuff get me down. And I mean, look, at school I got bullied a little bit for being in a wheelchair. And I guess after I had that resolution, I think the right word would be, I was like, if these kids are bullying me because I'm in a wheelchair, then I'm doing alright because it means they're not bullying me about anything else. So, and yeah, I'm just like everybody else pretty much. I've got tattoos, I love playing PlayStation, I love watching the footy, love going down the pub for a few beers with my mates. Yeah, it hasn't really held me back in any way, and I think That's the thing, like once, once I did accept who I was, I could go and do stuff like that.

Tommy: It seems like a part of it is resilience or building resilience in lockdown. Yeah. And so in lockdown, uh, there's I'm sure a bunch of people in all different types of circumstances saying right now, why me? Um, you know, with, with what's going on, how can you reframe that? What did you find to be helpful?

Heath: In lockdown specifically, or just—

Tommy: yeah, I think, or just in specifically going back to the change for you, uh, when you— those couple of weeks when you were 16, what was it? What was the mind shift that we could all use to be able to reframe?

Heath: I guess the key word would be acceptance. It's just accepting the situation that you're in and making the best of it. Um, which is what I think majority of like Victorians are trying to do at the moment with this lockdown and the first one. Like, just accept that that's what it is, and I guess don't whinge about it. And yeah, it sucks, and but we've got to just do what we've got to do. I mean, I'm sure it'll all work out in the end, and it's the people that accept it and sort of cherish it and grab it with both hands that are the ones that are gonna enjoy it, enjoy it, I guess.

Josh: Yeah, it sounds like, you know, taking control of what you can control. You said getting on top of it was one of them. Do you think people need to go through— it's almost— I mean, grieving's quite a big word. Going through the stage of blaming or anger, just when you are going through anything, what are those lessons that you pulled out of your experience?

Heath: Oh, 100%. Um, like, I think there are those stages and you, you said grief and you said, um, blaming. I blamed everybody for the situation that I was in when I was younger and stuff. So I guess it was just me finally taking a look at myself in the mirror. And yeah, I keep going back to the word accepting who I was. Stuff. So yeah.

Tommy: And so acceptance, there's acceptance, but then there's also progress in regards to what's happened with, you know, wheelchair sport and all that sort of stuff. So there is, there is something that's obviously happening where there are allies, but there are people who want to go out and play sport. So how do you get the energy to say, hang on, like, I'm going to accept this, but I also think we should be able to do all of these other things.

Heath: Well, I mean, I think going out and being physical and active just makes you feel better, and that's one of the things that I find. Like, yes, I love being a couch potato and sitting at home and watching Netflix and stuff like that, but I mean, I don't feel anywhere near as good doing that as if I'm out going for a run or hanging out or throwing the frisbee or playing tennis and stuff like that, or in the gym. Or anything. So I mean, it's just shifting, shifting the mind to wanting to be active, I guess, for me was a big one. And yeah, I guess there are so many opportunities now in this day and age compared to back when I was a kid. Like, all you have to do now is jump on the internet or pick up the phone to find your local sporting club, and there's pretty much all sporting clubs around Australia, and especially in Victoria, have access to somebody that knows somebody that could push them in the right direction with disability sports or anything like that.

Josh: So you had a 7.5-year break from tennis. Uh, did you, did you hit, did you hit a ball at all in that time, or did you remove yourself emotionally from the game?

Heath: I did not hit a single ball, nor did I pick up a tennis racket.

Josh: Okay, what about beer pong? Table tennis at least?

Heath: Table tennis maybe, yes. Um, but yeah, definitely just took myself away from the sport completely. Um, as I mentioned before, I had some troubles, uh, went through a pretty rough patch there and, uh, stuff, so tennis wasn't on my mind at all. Um, and then yeah, I guess, uh, everything sort of just fell into place. And yeah, 7 and a half years later, I picked up a tennis racket again, and, um, I'm in the position I am today.

Tommy: How do you, um, create that change? Because I think going from like someone who likes being a couch potato to being a world-class athlete, like, I think that that's a really unique, um, experience that you have. What are the small changes that you made at the beginning?

Heath: Um, a big one wasn't exactly a change that I made myself. It was my family, friends really pushed me into realising that I wasn't going anywhere and I could be something. And that really gave me the kick in the bum that I needed to as I said, take a long hard look at myself and realise that yes, I wanted to be something, and yes, if I dedicated myself to even just going back to school— I think it all started when I went back and did a fitness degree just because I love sport, and it got me back out, got me at school. And then obviously through doing that, I rang my old tennis coach who I mentioned before, and we hadn't spoken in 7 years. He was— he used to babysit me when my parents went away. That's how close we were. And he said, come down. And one hit turned into 2 hits a week, and then 2 hits turned into Tennis Australia giving me a phone call saying, come down, try out. Went down, tried out, got a scholarship through them, and that's where I've been ever since. And it's just hard work, really, like hard work and dedication. I mean, I'm lucky enough to be somewhat talented. There are a lot of people that work a lot harder than me. So I just, yeah, I'm lucky in a lot of ways, but I do really invest time and effort and do as much as I can to be the best that I can be as a person and a tennis player.

Josh: Tennis player and their relationship with their coach. Can somewhat seem emotional. Like, you know, you've seen the breakdowns on court where, you know, Kyrgios is yelling at his coach. What's yours like? Are you, um, are you a— is it emotionally heightened at times?

Tommy: Are there blow-ups?

Heath: I have never in my whole life hated somebody that loves somebody as much as I love my tennis coach. He is a great guy, but very stubborn, and so am I. So we do have massive blowups. We've had huge blues at training and I've left and we haven't spoken. And but I know, I know deep down that he's just trying to make me a better player, and we have a great relationship and we see each other more than I see anybody else in my life. So Of course, there's going to be ups and downs, but I can't thank him enough for investing the time into me. And yeah, I plan on working with him. And yeah, but there has been some very big blow-ups. There has been some racket smashes. There has been some him walking off court, not talking to me, telling me I played like ass. All that fun stuff at tournaments. I mean, it's great when you look over in the middle of a match and your coach is throwing his hat or swearing at you. He's French, because he's French. Which is always good, which it's pretty funny sometimes because he speaks to me in French and I don't speak French. I've got no idea what he's saying.

Josh: It sounds like Josh and my relationship. Yeah, a lot of blowups. But what that sounds like is hard, and from hard stuff comes the greatness of life. And so, you know, a hard relationship, a hard conversation, putting in the hard work, you're getting a result. What is the— what is the unique relationship taught you about yourself?

Heath: Um, just that I'm not always right, and just understanding that it's his job to be my coach, so he's going to be hard and tell me the truth. Sometimes I may not want to hear it. So there is a lot of self-reflecting. And as much as I don't want to hear it at the time and tell him he's being a jerk or whatever, and I'm like, what would you know? You're not out there. I mean, he's been there, he's done it before. So it's just, yeah, it's, it's understanding. And I guess listening to what he's saying and not just shutting off.

Tommy: Do you think that, um, when you were in that place where you felt sorry for yourself, I could imagine that people around you would be really empathetic to that and maybe even buy into that because it's like, yeah, this is like a hard situation that you're in. What is the balance between hard, tough love and saying, nah, you're better than this, you can do this, versus leaning into the actual struggles that you have?

Heath: It's definitely a fine line. Um, it could have gone either way, honestly, back when I was younger. Both my parents are awesome. They love me. They've been great support for me, my friends. But it was— it can be like, you can get to— sorry, boys— you can get to a point where having that group of people that do understand what you're going through and want— I guess, feel— I want to say feel sorry for you, but they do and they don't. Like, they want to see you get the best out of yourself, but at the same time, they want to empathise with what you're going through. And I guess the tough love was needed in a way, because if it wasn't there, I probably would have just felt sorry for myself.

Tommy: Is it guilt that they— do you think that people around you felt guilty?

Heath: Yeah, potentially. I mean, I can guarantee my mum felt guilty in a lot of ways, just nothing to do with it being her fault or anything. But I mean, obviously having my brother who's a couple of years older than me that has an intellectual disability and then having myself and I was an able-bodied baby and then got sick when I was 5 months old, it was— it would have been pretty tough on my parents. And yeah, she probably felt guilty that— did she do something wrong, or, um, would things have been different if circumstances were different, or stuff like that. But I guess a lot of people just And I'm being very general here, a lot of people just don't understand, I guess, disability in a whole. And I mean, I still deal with today, like, I will go to the shops and somebody will talk to me and because they see that I'm in a wheelchair, they don't think that I could speak properly or they'll speak to my mate who's with me because they don't think I can communicate. And it's the usual thing, like you go to the airport and you're about to get on a plane and they're like, "Oh, is your carer here?" And I'm like, "What do I need a carer for?" Yeah. They just, they don't, I guess, know the different types of disability. So, I mean, we still deal with it on a daily basis, but I mean, it's just one of those things. I just, I understand that not everyone's educated in that aspect, so. I guess there's just a little bit of patience. And I'm not saying that we're all nice people. There are people with disabilities that are massive jerks. I've been a massive jerk at times. We're just like everybody else.

Josh: When it comes to sport, being an athlete, you know, the hard work, as you mentioned, is something that requires that mindset, that input. And then where does luck fit into the equation?

Heath: Well, luck's everywhere, I guess, especially on a tennis court. Like, I do all the work off the court in training and all of that stuff to get myself into positions in matches to win, but I mean, look, if, if I hit a shot and it hits the tape and it falls on my side of the net, then that's just bad luck. There is a lot, a lot of luck involved in I guess you've just got to take it as it comes.

Josh: Do you see it as luck? As in, I could imagine, uh, the person that puts in a heap of work could see it as, no, I've done the work here, versus it being lucky. And I think it's— as I'm not an athlete, but I, I could imagine you have a unique perspective on what you classify as luck on the court and in life.

Heath: Yeah, well, I mean, my situation, I personally feel like the way things fell into place was very lucky for myself. I'm not saying that I didn't commit and give it 100% and put in a lot of work, but just the way that things sort of fell into place, I came back to tennis, um, got a scholarship, started traveling, was lucky enough to have Dylan as my doubles partner, started touring with him, played tournaments, 18 months to 20 months later was in a gold medal match at the Paralympics. So I mean, the hard work and dedication was definitely there, but there was a lot of luck along the way, like things sort of fell into place at the right times. For me to be able to get to that point. And very lucky that I had Dylan on the court with me in the gold medal match. But yeah, he likes to tell me it was all him. I was just there to cover the tram track, so I did my role. We got it done.

Tommy: And so I feel like tennis could be seen as a bit of a solo sport. Doubles, I guess, is— there's a lot of teamwork involved. You talk about the— your, your coach How do you see tennis when it, when it comes to being an individual sport?

Heath: Well, tennis is a massive individual sport. Like, most of the time I'm out there by myself. Yes, I have a coach travelling with me, and Dylan's obviously my doubles partner, but majority of the time is spent with you on court by yourself in a match. So it doesn't matter what the coach says or whatever, it's pretty much you out there trying to make good decisions and holding yourself accountable for what you're doing, like, on your own. Which is why I think I'm a better doubles player than I am a singles player, because, uh, when I'm out there with Dylan, I hold myself a lot more accountable because I don't want to let him down. Um, and I need to learn how to take that into the singles side of things, because I think if I can do that, I'll be a lot better.

Tommy: The Paralympics has been delayed by a year, 2021, is that right, when it's all happening? How has that, how has that changed your mindset? I guess you're working towards something for so long, and then to have that change.

Heath: Definitely at the start it was rough. It was really tough because obviously I don't like to say we've made sacrifices because I think everything we do in life's a choice. Um, so it, it was a big dampener though because there was certain choices that I've made over the past 4 years that may have put a halter on some aspects of my life. Um, so then to have that postponed really was like, damn, there was a lot of work that went into this year and then they've just turned around and it's, it's not happening. And then, um, obviously speaking to my sports psych and stuff like that, we, um, hashed it out. And I mean, we're sort of lucky in a way, like I get an extra 12 months to train and get better.

Tommy: Surely the sports psych's pretty busy at the moment with everything that's happening.

Heath: I reckon, I reckon he would, would be, um, But yeah, like, what did he say? Just change. I just said pretty much stop whinging, it's what it is. Um, no, it, it just, yeah, it took me a couple of minutes, I guess, to realise that it's not every day that you're about to play essentially the biggest tournament in the world again and you get an extra 12 months. To train and get better. So we have been working really hard on some new stuff since, since we got put into lockdown— well, since we've been allowed out of lockdown, I should say— and just trying to get better. I made some adjustments to the chair and yeah, just hopefully improving. And hopefully when we get over there next year that I'm a better tennis player than I was today and we can get some good results.

Josh: I mean, tennis— I mean, sports sounds like an emotional roller coaster. It's a— I mean, for me, I don't think I'm— I don't like being that competitive because I actually don't like the emotion on the other side. It annoys me too much that I get frustrated. For you, it's your— it's your job. When you come off the back of winning something like the 2016 gold medal with Dylan, you're at the very top there. What's that downward?

Tommy: Yeah, the comedown.

Josh: What's the comedown like and how do you deal with it?

Heath: Well, I mean, after we won, I didn't actually realise what we'd done, obviously, because the whole journey for me getting to the Paralympics and winning that gold medal was really rushed and it happened so fast. So I didn't actually really understand what we'd just done until we got home. And when we got home, I guess everybody watched this on TV and people knew who I was. And being one of 3 people in Australia to ever win a gold medal in tennis is pretty cool. So it's, yeah, I mean, there was a big high. The high lasted for 4 weeks, um, when we got home. And I'm assuming you boys can guess what happened in those 4 weeks. Um, there was a few parties and just sort of, yeah, been in the spotlight. And then, yeah, you're right, the, the comedown is, will I ever reach that pinnacle again? Will I get the opportunity to reach that pinnacle again? And if I do and it doesn't happen, is it okay that I've only done it once, or is that not acceptable? Yeah. Um, and I think for myself in my tennis career, there's still stuff that I really want to achieve. Like, I want to be in the top 3 in the singles. Um, I want to play Dylan in a Grand Slam final the Aussie Open or one of the other slams. I'd love to play for a gold medal in the singles at the Paralympics. Um, so I'm just trying to do what I can and be the best player I can be and accept that if it doesn't happen, at least I gave it my 100%.

Tommy: So how do you measure success?

Heath: Obviously, the— obviously, results is something that most athletes would probably say, and how well they've done in world rankings and stuff like that. But I think it's just— personally, I think it's just if I know that I've done everything that I can do to be the best player, even in life, best person that I can be, then I think I've done a pretty bloody good job. And I'd be happy and content to say that I was successful.

Tommy: Are there certain moments where you catch yourself? Like, have you got actual, you know, daily things that you do to make sure that you're on track? Or I guess coming out of that 7 and a half years of not playing tennis to then do it, there's potentially bad habits. How do you keep yourself accountable?

Heath: There was definitely bad habits and there was a lot of fear. I don't think I bought up fear yet. There was a lot of fear of not succeeding or not being as good as I thought I could be. Um, but yeah, just, I mean, I speak to my sports psych once a week and he does hold me accountable and he makes me remember and like keep myself on point in a lot of ways.

Tommy: Is he different to a normal psych? What's the main difference between a sports psych and, and just the, your average psych?

Heath: Um, I think sports psych is more based around like routines and how to remain calm and clear when you're doing your sport. So that's sort of a lot of the stuff that we talk about throughout our sessions, but We do talk just as much about personal life and home life because if you've got a good personal life and you're happy with your personal life, then it relates to when you're out on court and doing your job. So I think having him in my corner has been a massive help. I've been working with him now for 2 years and I think my tennis has improved dramatically. I have always thought that I've always needed negative reinforcement, like, you're doing a bad job. This is what you're doing wrong. And then, yeah, speaking to him, it's sort of not something that is beneficial to my game. Um, so it's just, yeah, it's changing that on-court mindset, being more positive, allowing yourself and accepting to make mistakes, um, and getting over it. And yeah, it's just, it's sort of like learning how to have a clear mind when you're in stressful situations. Because most of the time, especially in tennis, the person that has the clearest thought in a stressful time will probably come out on top.

Tommy: Yeah, I love that.

Josh: Is— does the fear go?

Heath: No, it's to be plain and simple. That's very annoying.

Josh: That's annoying.

Heath: Hey, it's, it's the fear of coming back to tennis and Not succeeding was the original one and it was massive. And now the fear is not being able to do what we did again, or, um, not being able to reach what I think I can reach. And that's like obviously something that I am working very hard on. And I said before that just being the best player that I can be is enough, but it still doesn't change the fact there is a lot of fear and a lot of doubt that creeps into your mind. Um, that, but what if it isn't? What if you didn't do everything you could? And it's just, yeah, it's learning to mentally prepare yourself and activate those things that you think you're doing correctly, but you're probably not doing 100% correct. So, and that was like even just as little as getting enough sleep at night. Like, I was a night owl, used to love being up late watching TV, go to bed 1 o'clock, wake up at 6, and feeling good, like feeling good because I've done it for so long. But then actually taking the time to get the proper amount of sleep and do the right things before you go to sleep made a massive difference.

Tommy: I remember year 10 psychology, they talked about, I think it's visualization, you know, sports psych and visualization. Is that something that you use?

Heath: Massively. We actually just had a session on visualisation last week because I'm very— my mind, as much as I try not to, it does become very results-based, and that's something we're trying to get away from. And me getting stressed out in like crucial points of a tennis match or whatever, um, you sort of forget what you've been doing the whole match. Like, you've got yourself into a really good position, but then when it gets really stressful and tough, I get foggy, and then I forget what I've been doing, or I forget all the stuff that I've done. So it's just being able to take that couple of seconds, and we've been working really hard on it, just before serving take a couple of deep breaths and visualise your serve, um, like how it feels to get a good serve, play a good point. Not so much what you did wrong, or if you miss a shot. Everybody knows if you're kicking a football or you're hitting a tennis ball or you're playing cricket and you play, say, cricket, if you play a straight drive and you hit it straight to a fielder, you know that feeling really well. But what you don't really take note of is the feeling you get when it comes off sweet, it goes past him for 4. Like, people don't remember the good feelings, they remember the bad stuff.

Tommy: Yeah.

Heath: So it's just sort of, yeah, getting used to the feelings and visualising the good feelings that I've been having and how I've been playing and how that felt is what I want to take into all of my matches.

Josh: And when I get stressed, it's like getting negative comments on your latest selfie, and it's like they're the ones that stand out, not your mum saying, 'You look great, darling.' It's 100%.

Heath: 100%. People will always— well, not, not, not all people, but a lot of people will just read negative comments and be like, oh, why are people saying this about me? Like, what have I done? Or what's the go?

Tommy: So what about the focus on the disability then? Like, is that a bit of a crutch in people where it's like, um, you only see the disability or people just see the disability?

Heath: Uh, yeah, a lot of— for a long time it was. Um, and obviously with all the work that people have been doing these days with inclusion and stuff like that, it is getting a lot better. And I mean, a perfect example of that is the US Open this year when they announced that the US Open was happening and they said wheelchairs weren't there. And we're like, what do you mean? And they're like, well, yeah, no, it's not happening. And then Dylan obviously put that tweet out which went bananas. And they've obviously had some long conversations with the players, and they've decided to go back on what they originally said and let us play.

Tommy: What's the conversation like with Dylan? I can imagine you guys getting fired up and fucking, you know, really getting him revved up to go, like, because he was everywhere. I feel like in that day, in that day, he was on TV. It was fucking awesome.

Heath: He just— he's one of the only people in our sport that could have done that because of the platform that he's got. There was a lot of players that felt like that, but yeah, I mean, look, man, I've got a couple of thousand followers on Instagram. If I said something, nobody would know about it. But my job in that certain thing was just to back him 100% and yeah, just go with it. And yeah, he does get fired up about stuff like that and props to him because a lot of people wouldn't do it because of maybe the backlash that would follow. But he's a proud disabled person and he's doing great things for breaking down glass ceilings and normalising disability in life. So yeah, I can't thank him enough for everything he's doing for people with disabilities and He's been my mate since— man, I've known him since he was 11 or 9. Like, yeah, he was real young when I met him, so we've been pretty close mates for a long time. And, um, yeah, really proud of what he's doing.

Josh: Do you guys chat about your mental health together? Like, if you're struggling in some areas, I mean, you, you both have been in the same situation. What are those— what's that conversation like?

Heath: I guess for us, because we know each other so well, we're very open with each other. And if one of us is having a bad day or whatever, we just tell each other to like get it together sort of thing. But yeah, there has been some pretty in-depth conversations about like growing up with a disability, and we have very different childhoods. In a lot of senses. He wrote a book which goes into a little bit of detail about my childhood and how he thought it was always fun to hang around with me because I was sort of like that party boy and that little bit older and stuff like that and whatnot. And yeah, we just, we are similar in the fact that we are both in wheelchairs, but we're very different in a lot of ways. Then yeah, I think we just work well together. He's one of my best mates. And yeah, I'm pretty happy that I get to train with him every day. It makes me a better tennis player, and I'm sure he likes cowling me up on the tennis court most days. So at least he gets an ego boost out of this.

Tommy: The, the small things over during ISO, for me, I'm trying to do 10,000 steps a day. Um, in a wheelchair, what are some of the, the go-to metrics or things that you can focus on to make sure that you're staying active, even just for someone who's not an athlete like yourself?

Heath: The 10,000 steps for me is pretty easy. I just put my watch on and go like that.

Tommy: So do I actually.

Heath: It does count pretty fast, but it's just the same, man. Like, you're trying to get 10,000 steps, I just go for a push or just try and get like as much Fitness, sort of just good health stuff in as much as I can. Do all my stretches or doing a little home workout if I can't get into tennis or stuff like that. It's pretty similar, man. I guess we probably wouldn't live too— our lives would be pretty similar during lockdown. I mean, you wake up, you have a coffee, you eat breakfast, you potter around a bit, you watch a bit of Netflix, you make a podcast.

Josh: Junk food, definitely.

Heath: Yeah, Uber Eats, 100%. You sit back. I mean, yeah, I play a little bit of PlayStation.

Tommy: What's your game of trying to feel like this PlayStation? I feel like you're understating how much you play PlayStation. What's your game?

Heath: You play probably a full-time job PlayStation.

Tommy: Have you got a Twitch? I feel like you need it. You need to be—

Heath: I've actually just been talking to one of my mates about starting up a stream.

Tommy: Yeah, do it.

Heath: I'm, I'm, I'm okay at, uh, Call of Duty.

Tommy: Yeah.

Heath: Um, yeah, so we've been playing a lot of that. Um, I'm a massive darts fan, so actually like playing darts, I love it. Um, so I've got a dartboard set up in my kitchen on the wall, um, which I seem to throw a lot of darts.

Tommy: Did you play as a kid? Because we were— I'm one of three boys in our household and we had issues where we went to a motel once and then started throwing the darts at each other. So we weren't ever allowed one. Like, were you— did you play darts as a kid?

Heath: I guess I probably threw darts at people when I was a kid. I never really took it up as a sport. But, um, yeah, no, I just started watching darts on Foxtel and loved it, so went down to the dart shop and ended up getting a full setup and It's, yeah, as I said, it's in the middle of my house and when the boys come over we have a game. I actually went to Bali late last year and bought a dartboard over there and took my darts and set it up in the villa and drank bintangs and played darts pretty much for 2 weeks. It was great.

Josh: Are you one of those guys that pulls out a little, you know, box? You've got your dart and then you've got everyone else's darts.

Heath: 100%. 100%. I have a few sets of nice, nice darts.

Tommy: So have you got a bowling ball as well? I feel like the same guy that's got— he brings his own bowling ball.

Heath: I'm no good at tenpin bowling. I wish I was better, but I'm a big lawn bowls fan. Yeah, I just love sport, boys. Yeah, I was, I was actually flicking through, uh, Foxtel the other day and they had the cornhole championships on over in America.

Tommy: What is cornhole?

Josh: I don't even know what it is.

Heath: You explain it, Heath. So, cornhole is you stand about, I think it's 20 foot apart, 2 teams. You have a board with a hole in it and you have to throw a beanbag into that hole.

Tommy: I think I remember playing that in like school. But so is this, is this like the perfect ISO sport because everyone's 20 feet apart?

Heath: It is perfect social distancing.

Tommy: That's so funny.

Heath: Yeah, I just love sport, anything. Like, huge, huge fan. I mean, I watched the UFC yesterday and that was unreal. Um, yeah, just big sports boy.

Tommy: Can you explain the difference? So I used to court announce wheelchair basketball at Dandenong Basketball Stadium, like the Rangers, back in the day when I was a kid, and everyone had, um, numbers. And so you could have a certain amount of numbers on the court. What's the deal from a technical perspective, like say with, um, what you do, it's like quad tennis. Like, what, what are the different versions of wheelchair sport?

Heath: Tennis is pretty simple. I'm in the quad classification with Dylan, so we have 3 limbs that are affected. So I have my right racket arm because I've got a fused wrist and a restricted movement in my shoulder. Plus I can't feel my legs, therefore there's 3 limbs. And then you have the open division, which is anyone that sits in a wheelchair. So you could have like, you could have one leg or whatever. And the basketball, the point system works is this, so everyone has the same amount of points on court at the same time. I haven't really been a massive wheelchair basketball player, I know Dylan played pretty successfully for a while, but yeah, so you get classed as in Dylan was a one-pointer because of his disability, and then the less disabled or more able you are, the more points you get, and a five-pointer is the most.

Tommy: Yeah, I remember like just being a kid and walking out and being surprised that you'd see some guys like walking their wheelchair out and putting it into the, to the car because it's like, I think they were like a— I can't remember the numbers— like a 6 or something, which means that like day to day they didn't need to be in the wheelchair.

Heath: Yeah, so it happens on the tennis court as well. We've had— I've played matches where guys have like lifted their wheelchairs over the fence and put them on court. I'm like, yeah, this seems fair.

Josh: But anyway, what is that mindset you go to?

Heath: It's just like, oh, this is going to be tough. But no, it is like Uh, say if you've lost a foot, um, and then you play wheelchair basketball, you'd be a 5-pointer, which is the highest you can get. And then yeah, it goes down, like paraplegics, like waist down is potentially a 2.5, a 3, and it just goes down and down. And I think you're allowed 16 points on the court at once or whatever. So you mix up the players so you can get the best available players on court at the time. So that's how that sort of works.

Tommy: Yeah, great.

Heath: And then obviously you move into swimming and stuff like that, and there's 400 different divisions. I couldn't tell you how that all works.

Josh: Have you, um, have you watched, uh, the Michael Jordan doco?

Heath: I have The Last Dance. It was brilliant.

Josh: How good is it? I could imagine, uh, I mean, as I, I have my, um, imagination of the player I would be, a part of the Bulls.

Tommy: Tommy started smoking cigars and plays golf.

Josh: I'm not an athlete. Athletes, do you watch that and go, I'm the Jordan, or I'm the Scottie Pippen, or I'm the Dennis Rodman of, uh, definitely the Dennis Rodman.

Heath: You're going to go on a vacation. I definitely go on a vacation to Vegas mid-tournament. That'll be fine with me. But Tommy, I reckon you'd be the John Paxton, mate. Just, just, yeah, just smashing threes when it counts in the fourth quarter.

Tommy: What would I be? What do you reckon? Yeah, I like that. What do you think, Heath? Who would I be?

Heath: I'm definitely going Horace Grant because of glasses. He'd wear some sick goggles, it'd be unreal.

Tommy: Dude, he— the goggles, I remember I never— I did the contact lenses, I never did the goggles. Like, I, um, that was sick, but I was always worried if I got hit in the face that it would sort of have a little bit of impact. But that was a look, those goggles and the big socks and stuff.

Heath: Like, yeah, yeah, man, I love Horace Grant. Then when he went to Orlando just ruined everything.

Josh: It's, um, how good is it watching that though? You're— we're similar age, Heath, and I just remember the basketball cards, the, you know, NBA Jam, and just watching that, you just get so nostalgic.

Heath: Oh, I was hugely into trading cards. I had— I think I actually still have a— well, my dad does at his house. We have a, um, Michael Jordan rookie card So we've got— I've still got all my card collections there at my dad's.

Tommy: There's—

Josh: it's in dad's superannuation.

Heath: Yeah, there's definitely a few, definitely a fair bit of coin involved in those cards.

Tommy: We always expected there was more though, didn't we? Like, we thought that like Tarzos and shit, that was gonna— that literally was going to be our investment. That was the— they're like ghosts.

Josh: You don't actually know what made mate that's seen one. You know, I'm made of a mate who's actually sold an expensive basketball card.

Heath: Yeah, true that. But, um, I'm really looking forward to the Kobe Bryant doco as well because apparently he followed around for 2 years. Um, I'm pretty sure they announced that it's going to be called Mamba Out and it's being released later this month.

Tommy: So, wow, I mean, I feel like that's a, um, it's a good use of couch potato time, right? Because it's, it's got a bit of visualisation in there. You're sort of setting yourself up working out who you want to be.

Josh: Mate, we're talking about what, what character you'd be from, um, from the Chicago Bulls. Josh and I were talking about, uh, do you reckon you can tell a lot about someone's chocolate choice?

Tommy: So yeah, so what, yeah, what do you understand? Yeah, so what are you, what's your go-to?

Josh: What's your Cadbury go-to?

Heath: Just straight Dairy Milk.

Josh: Yeah, you animal. You animal.

Heath: Cannot go past it.

Tommy: You're the general. It's very nostalgic calling everyone that you're wild.

Heath: I was a bit upset with the, the, um, the new release of the marble one. I shouldn't probably say this on podcast, but it's not the same. And I've had big debates with them about it. Um, but yeah, just Top Deck, just, I just love chocolate. I'm a big chocolate fan. And the pineapple, you know, the pineapples, you know, the blocks of snack.

Tommy: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Heath: The pineapple one in that.

Tommy: But it's hard when you—

Heath: Yeah.

Tommy: Any time that you're having to hope you get a certain one.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: Like it's a—

Josh: That's why, I mean, getting—

Tommy: It's hard work. I think the— For me, I mean, the big, the catch, I mean, I don't know if you've got any insights working with Cadbury, but do you reckon they created the Marvellous Creation so you can't break it evenly? So, because I used to be like, I'm only going to have 2 rows and now it's like, oh, fuck. Oops, oops, oops. I've eaten the whole thing.

Heath: 100%. That was a very, very good marketing tactic.

Tommy: It worked.

Heath: I definitely did.

Tommy: It's so good.

Heath: Oh, the popping candy ones, you can't get enough of it.

Tommy: Oh yeah, that's so good. Yeah, the, um, yeah, combining that with a, like, a spark— like a sparkling drink, you're blowing your head off. Yeah, it's dangerous territory, you know. It's, uh, wow.

Heath: Sparkling Ribena again. I used to love that stuff.

Tommy: Sparkling— I could imagine people putting that in the SodaStream and getting a shock.

Josh: Oh yeah, the bomb, mate. Uh, thank you, and, uh, best of luck for training for the 2021 Games, mate. That's going to be awesome. You can— have you, um, set a goal of how buff you want to come in, or how lean you want to be, or you just hitting the ball?

Heath: Uh, just—

Tommy: he wants your measurements. He wants you—

Josh: yeah, just give us your arm measurement, mate. I'll just—

Tommy: you versus me.

Heath: Um, I'm gonna say I reckon mine might be slightly bigger, but I'm not gonna give you any measurements. Um, no, just, just to be as fit as I can going in. Um, hopefully hitting a big ball. And, um, yeah, my, my problem is my mental game, so as long as I can hold that together, I reckon I'll be all right.

Tommy: Yeah, but it does take skill because I remember trying to execute on the visualisation playing golf when I wasn't very good. And you just sort of imagine how far it's going to go and it doesn't do it, you know. So you do have to have the skill. Uh, well, Heath, we would love to have you on as well, um, uh, closer to the Games as well, just, uh, as a cool flex for us so we can say, you know, we know, we know Heath.

Heath: For sure, boys. Um, yeah, thanks for having me. It was a great chat. Um, hope I was interesting enough to you boys and everyone that's going to listen. And, um, yeah, I'd love to come back on, so just let us know when you're when you're up for it.

Tommy: Awesome.

Josh: Follow Heath, Heath Davidson 13 on Insta. Get around him.

Tommy: Awesome. Thanks.

Heath: Thanks for the plug, fellas.

Tommy: It's a daily talk show. See you tomorrow, guys. Have a good one.

Heath: See you guys.