Ants In The Kitchen

Tommy: The Daily Talk Show.

Josh: It's The Daily Talk Show, episode 769.

Tommy: What's happening, guys? What's going on?

Josh: Tommy Jacket.

Tommy: Happy Tuesday. Why are you smiling?

Josh: I don't know. I just, I'm trying to embrace what it means to do a podcast just with two people. Yeah. I'm thinking about what JJ would have done, as in me, Josh Shanson. Hi, welcome. What I would have done back in the day, and I feel like that's a bit of what I would A bit more gear. I want to bring more gear to today's show.

Tommy: Do you? I mean, back in the day you had your solo show. I take my hat off to anyone who does a solo show because it's a different skill, right? It's a different sort of, uh, I mean, especially with just talking to yourself, you end up, um, asking yourself questions, asking yourself a lot of questions.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: Um, I went down a rabbit hole last night just watching a whole bunch of, um, the best was, uh, Buzz— I Quit BuzzFeed Reaction videos. There were so many "I quit, why I quit BuzzFeed" videos.

Josh: Is BuzzFeed actually, I don't know if I spoke about this the other day, but is BuzzFeed actually in trouble?

Tommy: I think they're done. Well, Jess told me, producer Jess, she said that they're done. I don't think they are.

Josh: What does that mean? I don't think they are. Like, I'm pretty sure you go to their site and it's still there.

Tommy: I know it's still there. YouTube channel's still there. It's ginormous. 20 million people, 20 million subscribers. But all the, all the people on—

Josh: What do you mean done? Just for clarity.

Tommy: Hang on, wait.

Josh: Um, so this is— We don't have—

Tommy: So his BuzzFeed— I'm pissed off for pulling up shitty— It takes too long. BuzzFeed done. Let's see if that comes up. BuzzFeed quizzes.

Josh: Um, no, you're fine. While you, while you work that out, um, BuzzFeed to close Australia's news operation. Okay, yeah, but that's also a very specific thing. The news section of BuzzFeed. I always found it weird that like there would be a press conference.

Tommy: Because it wasn't news, it was about the latest hot dog.

Josh: Yeah, 20 of the best hot dogs. Yeah, yeah. Rated by condiment.

Tommy: Rated by hipster. That's basically what it is. BuzzFeed will no longer cover local Australian storeys with staff to be told about stand downs today. I think this article hit before the staff knew.

Josh: When was that from?

Tommy: This was written in 2020, so this year.

Josh: I mean, this is the BuzzFeed article on it was 10 reasons why you're losing your job.

Tommy: I mean, they did, they did shift culture in a, in a big way, like in terms of how we consume stuff. Like, I remember when BuzzFeed first came out, and then there was the one about follow-ups. Vice.

Josh: Yeah, I was such a tryhard. My eyes are twitching so much lately. Um, too much coffee. All right, this is my second. That's all right.

Tommy: Same.

Josh: The, no, Vice like had a specific style, very flat footage. Yeah. It's like no one colour graded any of the footage. It was always just log.

Tommy: It was lazy. They called it log. I called it lazy.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: So Vice was there, but they, I think Vice, I mean, this is the thing, right? So as a company gets bigger, they, you could, it's a perceived view of them losing their values or their original approach, which is the challenge. I not relate to because I can't relate to making it that big.

Josh: But second biggest week last week, lost our way.

Tommy: But you could say they're shifting their attention or they're shifting their approach. So it's like content changes, people start calling it out, but it's like, well, we're a bigger operation, we can do more content now, so we have to change the approach to be able to even do 20 videos a week instead of 2. And so I used to get sent around Vice docos, like, you know, there would be those great on-the-ground in the in the sort of drug-addicted or war-torn suburbs of the States and even over in the Middle East. Like, that was, that was sick. But I mean, they maybe they have lost their way. I mean, a lot of them come over to Australia.

Josh: Don't know about war-torn in the States, but you like, you have sort of issues with gangs and stuff.

Tommy: Oh, definitely. I mean, yeah, it would feel like you're in not America. Anyway, so they've closed down the Australian operation, which is what I referenced in a video the other day. But there's something I've been saying this week. Kill the queen, kill the nest. I've said it a bit and it's not about Gemma Watson. Kill the queen, kill the grong squad. No, it's— We had an ant problem and—

Josh: I didn't actually know because I don't go in the kitchenette.

Tommy: Well, why is the—

Josh: Why is your Uber Eats bag in there? I knew you were going to bring up the Uber Eats bag.

Tommy: Why is it in there?

Josh: Because it needs to be recycled.

Tommy: And who's doing that?

Josh: And so, I'm like, the thing is that Uber Eats bag— Don't get me started. Uber Eats bags— You've been told off before. Think about it. Uber Eats bags are not dirty dishes.

Tommy: Yeah. Oh, I've got no problem with that. I think they're dirty dishes. I said the rule the other day, Uber Eats bags downstairs, please. Did I not?

Josh: Yeah, you did. But I think that, I don't know, like, I just think, like, I don't think there's anything offensive about an Uber Eats bag. Dirty fucking, just all the shit that you put in there.

Tommy: But hang on, hang on.

Josh: The tuna, like, it's always got tuna on it. It's always like fucking rice stuck in the fucking sink.

Tommy: That's in the bin. That's Seb's.

Josh: He does the rice. Harry saw fucking like a basil leaf or something caught into that, like some sort of leaf.

Tommy: For sure. He does a lot of that shit. It's very clean this week. I think that's where we're going to see. Anyway, digressing. The rule is put your Uber Eats bags downstairs regardless of what's in it, because otherwise I end up doing it.

Josh: Can I just say the reason why I had Uber Eats? This is a fun tip if you're in Australia.

Tommy: Oh, yeah, it's a good one. Australia.

Josh: Not to be confused with Stralia, if you're listening to them. If you use the promo code, "Oz support", no, "AU support local".

Tommy: It's a big one.

Josh: There's a bunch of cafes and things like every, I don't know where it's actually. Brisa, can you text me how you identify? Has to be Australia.

Tommy: Has to be local business.

Josh: So, yesterday I got like 30% off a cafe. I got a bircher muesli for $13 delivered.

Tommy: You really took an hour and a half to eat that. It was impressive.

Josh: Well, yeah, we're talking about it. There's certain foods that you can't rush.

Tommy: I've rushed a bircher before. Real hungry in the morning.

Josh: Anyway, so yeah, it's a problem. No, but if you use a 30% off code.

Tommy: Josh gets 20%.

Josh: No, you can use it over the next week. Today it's Mexican themed.

Tommy: That's sick.

Josh: So, all Mexican places are 30% off.

Tommy: That's good. As long as they're doing— if they're just saying support local and then they're taking the 30%. No, hopefully.

Josh: I'm sure they're not. Uber Eats takes 30%, so I'm guessing they take away their commission completely.

Tommy: That'd be good.

Josh: So the ant problem?

Tommy: Yeah, so the thing with ants in some buildings is that they're in the walls, mate. We don't— like, you don't know what you don't know. You can't see what you can't see. They're behind the fucking wall because all of a sudden they've come out of a crack and there's a million of them. And then you take away a piece of food, next minute, gone. And so, like, I don't necessarily like to kill ants. Like, I don't—

Josh: Like, can you just relocate them?

Tommy: I'd love to do that. But, you know, micromanaging them is hard.

Josh: There's a lot of them. Can you actually— Is there a way of relocating?

Tommy: I don't know. I think it's literally just taking away the food and letting them go back and then trying to seal the gap.

Josh: And so, you put some sort of ant tablet?

Tommy: Look, when Bodhi— When I say Bodhi, like Bodhi likes to squish bugs. Some he doesn't like to go near, but others he's jumping on. And he's like, because he's a bit worried about them, he doesn't understand the whole situation. I'm worried that he's going to want to get bit by a spider because he knows Spider-Man got bitten and became Spider-Man.

Josh: You need to rechange that. You need to change up the story.

Tommy: I literally was telling him a storey last night about—

Josh: What about me? I got bitten by a whitetail as a kid. Kid got asthma. That's not the super— That's not the Spider-Man storey you want to hear, is it? That's the sad— So, Spider-Man got a bunch of powers. Josh got asthma. He had to have a Ventolin because of a spider. A white tail. Yeah. Apparently, I went to the doctor. I was only like 3 or something. Yeah. And I was saying, "Piter bite me. Piter bite me." And Mum and Dad found the white tail. Oh. And so, they're like, and I, Yeah.

Tommy: Man, they're dangerous.

Josh: So, before you know it, I'm having to— I mentioned going to the Great Barrier Reef and when you snorkel, if you have asthma, you have to wear a pink ribbon on the top of your snorkel so they know.

Tommy: Spider where spider boy is.

Josh: It's pretty crazy to think a spider bites me and then I can't fucking enjoy the Great Barrier Reef without being ostracised. Anyway, so how can you teach him?

Tommy: I don't know. There's just that period of time, I think, between like where he is now and then maybe 4 where he totally gets it. He stays away from shit and he's a bit scared anyway. So, I encourage, don't touch, don't touch.

Josh: Hot items, does he touch like pans?

Tommy: He's actually quite good. Like, he can feel the heat. He knows hot and cold. So, he's getting there.

Josh: Has he gotten burnt before?

Tommy: Not yet. Just on like his mouth on a few hot dishes. So, he does, he gets, you know, he's blowing everything.

Josh: Doing it. Is there a, like, not to get dark on it, but is there a method of doing like a very controlled burn?

Tommy: We're not back burning, mate. We're not.

Josh: No, but just like— I know it's bad. Maybe at like 90 degrees just so it gives them a fright.

Tommy: But you know that I've told the storey of my hand was in a bucket every weekend because I was playing with matches or out the back lighting fires and touching shit. Like, I burnt myself nonstop. I learnt it just took about 40 times. So, unless I'm going to inflict Bodhi with burns more than 5 times, I reckon.

Josh: Did you ever burn a rope? A friend of mine burnt a rope and it was melting and it landed on her leg. The melted plastic. Anyway. Sorry, I interrupted you. I feel like I'm very interrupty because of this coffee.

Tommy: They're life lessons that you have to learn. It's the hard way. It's that sort of. The pain gives you the lesson. Anyway, I was apprehensive about sort of getting a bug spray because I know the boy who got bitten by a spider has a phobia of bug sprays. I don't know if that's the superpower that you're like now scared that you'll get sprayed. No, but you don't like aerosol cans.

Josh: No. You're talking about me?

Tommy: Yeah, you. Except for Dettol, you seem to not have a problem with the spray that pushes out Clean stuff. Yeah, clean stuff. Anyway, so I got these things, which when I moved into the rental property we've got at the moment. Yeah, I'm renting. $40,000 a year. I put it on the—

Josh: You worked it out?

Tommy: $40,000 a year. Nah, it's about $30,000-something. $590 times by 52.

Josh: Did they end up selling?

Tommy: They sold, didn't they? Sold. Owners want to do an inspection this Thursday.

Josh: You've got your movie tickets.

Tommy: Yeah, I got the movie tickets. Got our Coco Black.

Josh: When does that open?

Tommy: Meant to be now. Movies are open now, I think. But who's going? That's another story. Anyway, I got this stuff. Georgie Boy and I went down to Woolies and we got Ant Rid. It's a well-known brand and they do a spray or a drop or these little plastic things that you stick onto the wall or onto the ground. And so I thought, look, less guilt in the thing that you just stick there and walk away versus kshh at the bug. Like, shh, at the bug, really. So, I once sprayed a whitetail, the one that got you. I think I got— I was trying to get it back for you. It chased me. It was like aggressive. They're known for being like real pricks.

Josh: This is like an IED.

Tommy: Yeah, this is an IED.

Josh: You know, you leave it there and wait for the ants to come by.

Tommy: Dude. And so, the slogan on Ant-Read is "kills the queen and destroys the nest," which we've been— we sort of shortened it to "kill the queen, kill the nest." And, and we've been saying that in the office because George and I thought how fucking ridiculous that saying is, but it sticks, man, it sticks. And so anyway, I went down a rabbit hole of like brands and their sayings or brands and their slogans. And so I've got like the 30 best of all time and then the 30 worst of all time, which like— which list do you want to sort of pick from for me to give you a couple?

Josh: The, the best. But can you— are there any brands that I would know that You can ask me the brand and I'll say what I think the slogan is, or are they all a bit obscure?

Tommy: So, I could do that. We can play a game. So, I will just say the slogan. You just tell me if you know the brand.

Josh: That's a good idea. Okay, great.

Tommy: Okay, I'm just going to—

Josh: I'm loving it. McDonald's.

Tommy: Open happiness.

Josh: Disney.

Tommy: Coca-Cola. Fuck.

Josh: Good one.

Tommy: I can't say that one. Move fast and break things.

Josh: Adidas.

Tommy: Facebook.

Josh: Ah, okay. The thing with that is that's not an external—

Tommy: so I'm loving it, it's on the list here.

Josh: Yeah, so, but the Facebook one, that is an internal sort of approach to doing things.

Tommy: Okay. The choice of a new generation, the choice—

Josh: TikTok.

Tommy: Pepsi. These are all old school. Oh, you love this company. What can Brown do for you?

Josh: What can Brown do for you? Can we say?

Tommy: Short shorts. Think short shorts.

Josh: What can Brown do for you? What does that mean?

Tommy: You love their outfits.

Josh: Oh, yeah, yeah. UPS. Yeah. They've got the iconic uniform.

Tommy: This one. The happiest place on earth. Yeah.

Josh: Disney.

Tommy: Disneyland.

Josh: Yeah. Disneyland. Yeah. Sorry. Yeah.

Tommy: Okay. What else we got? Let me go to the top. Impossible is nothing.

Josh: Impossible is nothing. Who would say that? It's got the think differently sort of thing that Apple both—

Tommy: That's number 7 on the list.

Josh: Think differently.

Tommy: So, you know a bunch of these.

Josh: Impossible is nothing. Is that what—? Yep. Impossible is nothing. It sounds a little bit obnoxious. It sounds like something Elon Musk would say. Yeah. Adidas. Adidas. Okay.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: So, the funny thing is the grandiose nature of the phrase versus what they're actually doing?

Tommy: Oh, this is the thing. I mean, this, it's all just words at some point, and then it's up for interpretation.

Josh: Do you reckon they have the big sign on the sweatshop? Like, well— Impossible. What is it? Impossibilities. What is that?

Tommy: Impossible is nothing.

Josh: Impossible is nothing. What does that mean? Impossible is nothing. I don't know.

Tommy: What does it mean? Belong Anywhere. That's Airbnbs. But So, I found some like, this is where the list of the best is like front and centre on the internet, whereas like you go to the 30 worst and it's like brands obviously, they're not wanting to lead with it. So, it's all photos that people have taken on their phone of some sort of poster they've seen.

Josh: Can you give me an example and then I'll guess the brand?

Tommy: Okay. Cheat on your girlfriend, not on your workout.

Josh: Cheating on your girlfriend. Strava. Reebok. It's pretty obnoxious, like, cheat on your girlfriend, not on your workout. Okay, yeah, go on.

Tommy: So there's a bunch of US brands here that I'm just trying to avoid because we wouldn't know. Some of them are too visual. Oh, this is very old school. You won't know this, but there's Cellophane. Oh yeah. So, cellophane, I thought was a thing. I think it's a brand. The best things in life come in cellophane. And then they had a, like a bird holding a bag of cellophane and inside the bag was a baby, which is kind of obnoxious.

Josh: What about— The one that stands out to me is favourites.

Tommy: Oh, when you're told to bring nothing. Yeah. When you're told not to bring anything. Is that it?

Josh: Yeah. It's not to bring a thing, like something about bring a thing. When you're told not to bring a thing, but you want to bring a thing. Yeah. What is it? Can you Google it?

Tommy: Cadbury Favourites launches new ad campaign. This is back in 2011. This was huge.

Josh: What happened to Roses Only? Oh, sorry. Roses. They're still around. The chocolate. Yeah. Roses Only are different. Yeah. They're flowers.

Tommy: Bring. Okay. The new, what to bring when you're told not to bring a thing.

Josh: What to bring when you're not— When you're told to not bring it.

Tommy: How many fat cats are sitting around a table eating favourites looking up that?

Josh: But also the gronks that would just like— I can imagine 97 getting caught up in that, just being like, wow, what to bring, what to bring, what to bring. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Tommy: I just had a look around the office and this is like the disgusting microwave. I was trying to work out what you— So, you've got I got a bunch of little things, but this is like the burger that you ate. That was—

Josh: So, it wasn't in a can, was it?

Tommy: No, no, no. They don't do that shit in Australia. This just says Australian made and owned. I mean, they're not, they're not sort of leading with anything.

Josh: I think they are just— Can I guess the tagline?

Tommy: No, that is the tagline. What is it? Australian made and owned.

Josh: Okay. It's not really a tagline. No, it's not. I thought it was going to be when you've given up.

Tommy: This is Delishu plant-based chicken. Clean and lean.

Josh: Clean and lean.

Tommy: Clean and lean. I don't mind that. This is like a tuna can. Savcole.

Josh: Can I guess?

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: The thing that will stay in your cupboard for a very long time.

Tommy: Yeah, this is from 3D Deal last year, so that's true. But it actually says—

Josh: What about don't forget?

Tommy: When the world goes to shit. Doomsday preppers.

Josh: COVID ready. Yeah.

Tommy: Responsibly fished. So they're sort of leading with it. I mean, you're sort of head of comms here at Big Media Company. Yeah. And on our Instagram, as much as I was upset yesterday that you changed my—

Josh: I changed the More Than a Podcast thing. You changed it? Oh, can I read it? No, it's actually really boring. It was more of a search engine optimization play. I changed it to Australian Podcast. Okay. Okay. Well, Craig Bruce, we had a meeting with him. Yeah. I haven't gone through all that. He wrote a bunch of notes. He's a big content guy in radio, and he didn't like the "more than a podcast" set. It didn't really say anything.

Tommy: But which I think about, I mean, you have to land on something for any brand that you've got, and then people aren't going to like it, people are going to resonate with it, or people aren't going to even notice it.

Josh: What's another tagline that we could do? Well, the Daily Talk Show.

Tommy: Well, yeah, I mean, this is the thing, the "more than a podcast" people have said that to us about the show, the brand. And so we then got an email from Audio Technica that referenced More Than a Podcast. That's good. Sorry, that's not Audio Technica. That's another, another brand, another brand that we use. Starts with M, ends with A. Oh yeah. And so they said specifically, I love how you've— I love how that you are more than a podcast. And so at that point you go, Where do you listen to it? This is the hard thing about advertising marketing. You have— it's like a room has to decide and then you can't be influenced by the external people unless it is, uh, cheat on your girlfriend, not in your workout. I think you could probably do a bit of work there.

Josh: I, um, you know, I was panicked yesterday about, uh, Seb's, um, autoresponder or the, the lack of autoresponder. Yeah. You okay? Yeah. What's wrong?

Tommy: I was just looking, um, to see if we're actually Pushing that. Anyway, go. What's wrong? I think we're still on the home screen of our live. Pushing out. No. Oh no, it's all good.

Josh: You just need to refresh. Yeah, refresh. Um, is it working or not? It's working now. Okay. I think you just need to refresh it when it starts. Um, no, Seb's with the autoresponder thing. Has he set it up? Well, I think he did, but the funny thing is, um, I then had a second thought last night where I'm like, I reckon he hasn't even— he didn't even email Audio Technica to say the video was done. I reckon he's put it out, tagged them, but I was on the— on his computer and I didn't see like an email saying, hey, hey guys, we've done the video here. You fucking go through— I didn't go through his email. Promise, promise I didn't.

Tommy: It was because, you know what, we just got to get as many of these out the door before we have a full-time HR person because that's fucked.

Josh: I didn't go through his email. No, we use a tool called Spark. Not to get too much into the weeds.

Tommy: I got an auto response. I just said it. I sent him a test.

Josh: What's the auto responder say?

Tommy: Hey, I'm currently on annual leave having a really nice time with my miso. Hey, I'm currently on annual leave. If you need to get in contact, get in touch with Jess by emailing.

Josh: Does Jess know? I don't think he asked Jess. Yeah, that's a classic move.

Tommy: But I'm sure Jess is okay. With it.

Josh: I was just reminded last night of something that happened I wanted to talk about. Okay. I was on my phone the other night and Bri sort of reacted the way that Seb's reacts. It was like, oh, wow.

Tommy: Ah. Before. It actually seems like a trait of people that come into our world. Harry. Harry does it. Does it too.

Josh: It's sort of reacting big and then you're sort of left going, what the fuck? What are you reacting to? And Bree said, shooting star. Oh, that's sick. And so we're sitting on the bed and I was on my phone. I was like, ah, I missed it. And she's like, ah, there's another one. Another one. It was ridiculous. Dude, that's lucky. Yeah. And then I sat up because I'm like, this is, this is crazy. What it turned out was the guy above us was having a ciggie and his ash was falling and Bree thought it was a shooting star. It was the gronk upstairs. Isn't that outrageous? That's so funny. But isn't it like in that moment something so magical? But then I started thinking about shooting stars in general. So, we have such a positive feeling towards shooting stars. Yeah. Don't you think?

Tommy: I mean, who's done the branding on that? It's all, it's the, I don't even know where it comes from. NASA? But all I know is. I don't know who did it. They're rare, Make-A-Wish. It's— You're lucky. The meaning of— I'll just write. I'll just look this up. Because you think that someone's branded it.

Josh: It's like Coca-Cola with Santa. Someone created the shooting star.

Tommy: Well, who created the hold your breath going past the cemetery? Who's the person that started that? There's definitely a person that was like, this is a thing. Put your finger in your belly button so your spirit doesn't come out or something like this. Stupid shit. Some pervert. Shooting stars, also known as fallen stars. Send streaks of light across the night sky before burning out into a point of inky blackness. Either way, the shooting star is said to possess a bit of magic, which means positive vibes and good luck for anyone who happens to gaze upon one. I, I've seen— I was at the primary school across the road from where I grew up, and I was kicking the footy on the oval, and I kid you not, 30 metres in the sky from where I was It was 30 metres. So, they can be like a little comet that ends up coming down and breaking up. So, this is what I was wondering.

Josh: It's like we see shooting stars as this positive thing. Is that a branding thing that we've created because of how fucking scary it is? Like, I don't understand how the stars work. Are stars the things that will then come and destroy the planet? I mean, Bodhi even knows what stars are. Are they asteroids?

Tommy: They're burning light, burning fuel. But we're seeing them, they may have burnt out already in real time, but by the time we're seeing it, it's still sitting.

Josh: There's a bit of a delay. It's like Georgie Boy. What? He's a bit of a delay. What about the—

Tommy: What exactly is a star? A star is a luminous ball of gas, mostly hydrogen and helium, held together by its own gravity. Nuclear fusion reactions in its core support the star against gravity and produce photons and heat, as well as small amounts of heavier elements. The sun is the closest star to Earth.

Josh: How many kilometres away do you think we are from the sun? Oh, mate, I couldn't tell you. I heard it on the weekend and I want to see if I've remembered.

Tommy: It's a fucking— Can I just— How about you guess?

Josh: No, no, you guess first. No, you guess and then look it up. No, you guess. No, because you're going to look it up and then—

Tommy: It's kilometers. Yeah. Oh, like a billion kilometres away? No. Not the closer?

Josh: It's closer. Yeah. 143 million kilometres, I believe.

Tommy: How far away is the sun? 152. 150. Fuck. You got it. Not nearly. No, it would have been 11. 10 mil short. 143. 11 or 9.

Josh: What did I say? 143. I said 143. How many is it? 152. 152. Everyone, all gronks should remember that fact. One five two. 152 million k's away. It's a long way.

Tommy: It's very far. But I mean, so okay, the star thing, the magical nature of them, seeing shooting stars, yeah, it's great. I mean, if you go deep into what could happen to this Earth in a split second, like think about the fear that black holes— when you learned about those as a kid, that, you know, you could be sucked into another galaxy, or like, uh, you— the Earth could be sucked in, like, um there's some serious shit that would scare the pants off an adult.

Josh: You sound like Scooter. Like, I was walking with Scooter the other day and he just sort of went into this space of like, you know, there's a lot of things we don't think about because if we thought about them, we'd be fucking scared for our lives. That's what I mean. But that's like, Scooter, man, I just want to go for a walk. How did we get here? It's like, yeah, like we don't think day to day about the world ending.

Tommy: Do we? No. And we convince ourselves in every moment of the day, some people probably less likely, but less so, that we're okay and we're not going to die. But it's like the reality of how easily we can die.

Josh: Well, the COVID stuff, I feel like does a bit of that for me. Listen, like listening to the New York Times or whatever on Audible. So much news about all of this stuff.

Tommy: I got a bit dark this morning thinking about like the Victoria is the worst state at the moment in terms of going backwards in our numbers.

Josh: How did that happen? Don't you feel like—

Tommy: We were great. We were fucking awesome.

Josh: I was like looking at New South Wales being like, oh, you scumbags, like, you fucked it up. You know, like you just— I just imagine Sydney. Whenever I think of Sydney, I just imagine like just Fordo hugging everyone, high five, just not giving a fuck.

Tommy: But maybe they went harder. Like, so So, they got a lot of cases early, but then I guess then Sydney is the hub. Like, that's where most people are coming from overseas. Sydney and Melbourne second, I think. But we're going backwards. And this morning I was thinking about, they're saying, you know, like, I know it's headline media, so it's like you got to take it with a grain of salt. But it's like another 8-week lockdown, but that would— And that would destroy so many businesses.

Josh: The headline thing though is so problematic. Like there's been so many times where I've gone to send you an article where I've seen the headline, I've thought, this is interesting.

Tommy: How about this one? You didn't read it though.

Josh: Yeah, no, so LinkedIn, I saw on LinkedIn, it's like something like, um, uh, all the facts about, or, um, the truth behind Barefoot Investor's, um, connection with HostPlus. I read it. And so I—

Tommy: Did you see my comment on it?

Josh: No. So I saw the article. I was like, oh, fuck. Like, we've done work with Barefoot. I'm disappointed in Scott, you know, would have thought. And then you read the article, it's like 2012, he was doing stuff before he decided to pack it all in and do like—

Tommy: So I want to clarify because that fucking pissed me off too. When I read, I was like, oh no. Then I read it because I like Scott and that's— and I've defended him so many times. Not that he's asked me to ever. When people say, oh, he's linked to ING, he's linked to— I'm like, No, he's absolutely fucking not. He's as transparent as they come. And then I read that and I was like, that is the most bullshit article I've ever fucking read. They've dug a hole and they're trying to promote that they've just dug a hole in the backyard. That's how impressive it was because this is AFR, is it? Australian Financial Review. I mean, they are, those journos are questionable. The thing about Scott is he's been on the forefront of educating people, people that don't have the skills or just haven't had the opportunity in life to understand money in a simple way. And so his connection with Host Plus was helping people understand money. And so he was doing what he was doing now, but just to an audience of people that Host Plus had. And he's always said that Host Plus is just what I've used. And, and he even, he even called them out last year or this year.

Josh: This year, yeah, called them out for some stuff, which is— but that's the thing is it's like, um, conflicts of interest is interesting because it's— if you're a business person or if you believe in something, aren't you more likely to invest in that thing or be a part of it or like get involved? But he was also— what pissed me off was the headline where you're like, if I was to scroll by, I nearly just sent it to you and just like went on my way. But I was like, I wonder what the actual— I went the next step. And then when you go the next step, you're like, this is complete bullshit because you can see how what they're saying is it's like, oh, everything— it's— I don't know, I can't remember the title. It was sort of like everything you need to know about Scott Pape and Host Plus or whatever, but it was done in a way that implied that there was all of this crazy— Yeah, we went digging and found, you know, uncovered nothing.

Tommy: Literally, I was— I started writing a comment to the guy and I— and I— and then I was like, too many people have written too many great comments here. It's like, at the point of writing an article like that as a journalist, fucking quotation marks, as if he's a journalist doing that bullshit. He has to realise that he, he is misfired there. Like, when you have so many people just saying there is nothing in that article, what have you brought that isn't known? Or what have you brought that— sure, he hasn't sort of promoted that he used to be with Host Plus. He doesn't have to.

Josh: But do you think that part of it is that, like, my guess is you see someone in, in, um, the public eye, and so as a journo, you're like want to keep them honest and transparent. So, he goes down this rabbit hole, probably spends 6 weeks investigating this thing. Yeah. Finds very boring details, but then has to do an article because he's got to, like, explain to his boss why he just spent so much time trying to research this thing.

Tommy: The bare truth about Scott Pape's Host Plus links. Yeah. Like, I want to send that to somebody. Because if— but that states that— so all that states is that he has a link to HostPlus, which you could have linked to HostPlus if you had an account with them and you told your mate that, uh, HostPlus is good, I'm with them.

Josh: But then also look at the, um, the financial institutions, how it's all set up anyway.

Tommy: Yeah, I think the biggest one is like where it— if the, the only way that could have been an article is if he was receiving kickback from Host Plus for everyone that came there and mentioned that he— but that's not the case. It's like ING when he— Up Bank wasn't around when he was talking about— yeah, when he was promoting up— ING is a good option. And so now I got my— I got my Up card last night in the mail. Like, they do a fucking great job of branding. What's their slogan? Do you know, um, yeah, me bank. Me bank. Yeah, they're a good one because you can't, can't access the cash. They're good for, uh, loose—

Josh: so they've got— they're doing an up sort of, um like a competing product. Yeah. But the funny thing is the marketing, I think, is like for dummies.

Tommy: Marketing for dummies.

Josh: Oh, like their approach is like, you know what, this generation of fucking idiots, because they're, um, their whole pitch is like, I got it on Instagram, the ad, and it's, uh, we're all dummies, Steve, except for this dummy because I don't fucking have one. No, they, um, they're like, oh, we've made our cards vertical. And so it's like the card and they've just taken the square. Look it up now. Vertical, like type in, um, me bank. And so it's a, um, all they've done is taken the chip and they've turned it on its side. Yeah. And made it a little bit higher. I'm like, what? Yeah, I see. What's the fucking problem? I didn't know that there was a problem with this.

Tommy: It's literally, it's holding a rectangle up a different way that makes it vertical.

Josh: But that's the hilarious thing. But it's like, Are they thinking people are like, oh, you know what, this is what I've been missing. I love TikTok, I love Instagram, they're all vertical. I only want to go with a bank that has vertical cards. Like, that is— you might be onto something there.

Tommy: Like, the, the, and like, the user experience of holding something vertically.

Josh: Maybe this is different. Use a fucking Apple ID. I mean, the thing, you know, what annoyed me about it was if that was Even if that— even if they had the best fees and all that sort of shit, they lost me at the marketing. Because it's like, really, if that's their— their two selling points were vertical cards and different colors.

Tommy: Or, I mean, can you promote a feeless account? Because everyone's doing that now. Like, is that a selling point? Like, I think our bank— so their slogan is, get wise with your money, up your banking game. I guess it's like the tech, the tech for me with them being able to do it on your phone is, and, and add new accounts and put little emojis. Like I set up, set up a little fund for Bodhi in there, set up a, for a bike. I haven't sent any money to it, but you gotta have money for these. That's what I've learned, you know, in my time in the game. You need money for your accounts.

Josh: So you don't have it. 50, 50 bank accounts for different things at all. Got no money.

Tommy: Feels good. But you feel pro, uh, Productive, organised. It is. Yeah.

Josh: So, no, I think me banking needs to change their fucking marketing. Or maybe it's appealing for a certain group.

Tommy: I think journalists need to fucking pull their head in.

Josh: Yeah. I mean, what is it? So, the thing is there's a negative bit, which is that we need the press, we need journalists to keep politicians and leaders accountable. Yeah.. And so, there's a bunch of examples of that with all of the local newspapers closing down. They're talking about a lot of times those journos were the people keeping the local reps and the council accountable. Yeah. But then you also have this bullshit, which is just like spinning stories, like just creating storeys for the sake of it.

Tommy: Well, you look at the incentive of The AFR struggling. I mean, the newspaper, they were a newspaper first. They're probably on— they've got an online subscription model as well. But that's their incentive to get people looking. And it got us talking, which is the annoying bit. But so, he's—

Josh: What does it make you do, though, from a— Like as a consumer, like you've got like— I'm so critical of whatever I read now.

Tommy: So, I look at— Which I shouldn't be anyway. I look at the— I look at the individual who's written the article and then I start getting dark on them. But then I think the, you know, because it's because— so I could think that I'm not having an adverse view on the AFR, the Australian Financial Review. I'm then looking at the individual. But then I think that is the brand problem for AFR, is that people are looking at an individual level, which in the back of their mind, it's like it's all attached. It's a part of their brand. This is what they're resorting to. And so I don't know, what are they offering? Um, they're trying— so local news outlets. So Shep has the Shep News. I don't know if they're still there anymore. Bendigo probably has something, a version of it too. And so they all had local reporters living in the town, and I knew a lot of them, the next-door neighbor, some people that came from Melbourne. Great people, great young journos who grew up thinking they want to be a journalist to share the information about what's happening in areas. And so, the intention of the journalists themselves is great, and they go to these regional towns to cut their teeth. You know, it's like the radio presenters. The problem is that no one's buying the papers, and they're going to have to— they're pulling the local news source away from there. So, these people don't have a job, and they're saying that they want to try and do things like tax-deductible subscriptions, which to try and sort of implement these, uh, to be able to fund these local news people, which I think is good. Like, I think there has to be some local coverage. The problem is when they're struggling for cash, which they're all businesses, I totally, I totally empathise when it's like struggling and they're like, how do we stay afloat? We get bought by big Murdoch Media and then we have to sort of—

Josh: Well, if we're funding, um, Osha Ginsburg sketch on why you shouldn't podcast through taxpayer money. I feel like we should, um, we should be able to support local, local news.

Tommy: But then ABC are laying off people left, right, and center. It's a dark time for media. It's a dark time for business, small business.

Josh: That's a fun note to finish.

Tommy: Yeah, I love finishing that one.

Josh: Um, oh no, I've decided— I've spoken about before trying to improve my, um, the type of content that I consume. Yeah. I've been like going real scummy with some of the just fucking just celebrity shit, like just it's fine. But I feel like I've, I need to reshape what I'm listening to, to be a bit more critical, things like that. I saw, I've only read the headline, but I saw on you. I want to make a recommendation for an episode. From a headline? Of a podcast from the headline. Great. Do you know, is it Eric Weinstein? Yeah, Eric and Brett.

Tommy: So, brothers. Oh, really? Yeah. One of them, I think Eric is Peter Thiel's right-hand man. He's like, imagine being a genius that Peter Thiel is, very sort of cerebral. You know, he's fucking—

Josh: What is that? What do you mean?

Tommy: In his head, just like he's a superhuman thinker. And then he's got another guy He's like, one's not enough. I need my right-hand man. I need Eric. And so, Brett and Eric, two brothers. This is another thing. Imagine having like two brothers that are sort of the academic elite or the intellectual elite of the world. You'd be pretty impressed.

Josh: Like, look at the Janssen brothers. Look at James, Jake and Josh.

Tommy: You got three. Yeah, the Kardashians of Australia. The K's of— the J's of Australia.

Josh: No. So, Jason Fox told me about this specific episode of The Portal, which is Eric's podcast. And then, so, I've been consuming a bunch of his content. I don't know where he sort of sits. I can't work out his political—

Tommy: Political thinking. I think he's— He would probably see himself as a centrist. So, these people that you would think have right-leaning views, but they're hyper-progressive in other states. So, in other areas, which is contradictory and it's a mindfuck, but it's all under, like, they're thinking about it so much.

Josh: Peter Thiel is famously a massive supporter of Donald Trump and things like that. Really?

Tommy: Peter Thiel also— You mean The Apprentice? Maybe he just paid for it because he loved the show.

Josh: But he was also the guy behind all of the Hulk Hogan sex tape stuff.

Tommy: So, he also invented PayPal and a few other—

Josh: Yeah, yeah. But he's just eccentric billionaire who— So eccentric. Yeah, he— I'm trying to think of the book he wrote. It's light blue. Anyway. But anyway, so, the episode that I saw the title of on YouTube, I thought was interesting. It was Sam Harris. Yeah. On Eric's podcast. And the YouTube title was like a narrative, like, um, narrative media is talking about. I was just watching a bit of it last night around this sort of stuff, which is the storytelling. And like, say, the point around Scott and what was said about what he was doing, the need to create narratives. I'm only going off the first 30 seconds I watched and the headline, so I could have butchered that. But I feel like, yeah, interesting, um, interesting topic to cover anyway.

Tommy: So they recorded that podcast and then didn't release the first one. Oh, really? And then they did it, recorded it again because it was like Eric's first, you know, hurrah into podcasting. Hurrah is going the other way. Hello. First hello. Peter Thiel's book, Zero to One. Yeah, that's it. Zero to One. Interesting. He's had like a bunch of different coloured copies. He said the light blue one. Light blue one is what I saw. And that's also Zero to One.

Josh: But, um, I feel like that was slightly boring, me mentioning something I haven't consumed. Yeah, don't know the exact contents of it, not, not completely sure on the title.

Tommy: Anything with Eric and Sam Harris. Sam Harris is the guy that I listen to every day for meditation. Um, two just very smart people that will, um, it gives you that sort of, uh, academic chubby You know, like you're listening to two smart people, you're like, don't really get it, but I fucking— it's impressive. That's where it goes sometimes because they're too— they're almost too smart. Yeah. And so, yeah. Anyway, I've listened to a bit of it. It's worth listening to.

Josh: It's the Daily Talk Show. It is. Anything else? Look, to be honest, nah. We're doing pre-roll and post-roll at the moment to encourage you to do a social media post. Yeah. With Sevz being away, it would be great for the Gronks to be posting stuff. So if you can do a storey or something, that would be great. That'd be nice. All right, uh, we'll see you tomorrow, guys. Have a good one. Love you guys.