Michelle Battersby - 24 Hour Live Stream

Tommy: It's The Daily Talk Show, episode 716. Georgie Boy here going through all the interviews from the 24-hour live stream, and we're up to Michelle Battersby, who is the CMO at Keep It Cleaner and the former APAC marketing director at Bumble. Uh, this is a really interesting chat. I think you're going to enjoy this one.

Josh: Uh, Michelle Battersby. Michelle, welcome to the show. So you were saying you've got your acoustic guitar ready. What are you going to be performing?

Michelle: Yeah, um, I'll come up with a song by the end of the show.

Josh: Um, so for people who don't know, you, you were at, um, Bumble for ages. You were sort of, um, doing amazing stuff, especially in Melbourne. I just feel like there were so many events and things happening. And, uh, now you're at the the next big brand, which is Kick. Uh, how's, how's things going, uh, in ISO for you?

Michelle: Well, I'm from Sydney, so I moved to Melbourne in November to start my new role at Keep It Cleaner. I thought it was going to be a blast. You know, Melbourne has a great culture, amazing restaurants, bars, and now I'm finding myself stuck indoors, unable to make any new friends. So it is an interesting time, but very grateful to be working for Keep It Cleaner that can help people at the moment whilst everyone is stuck inside.

Josh: So you've got room for friends? Melbourne friends?

Tommy: He's in Singapore.

Josh: I just thought it's a Melbourne joke. You go, go Michelle, sorry.

Michelle: No, I missed what you said. You're saying you're looking for a housemate or something?

Josh: No, no, no, not housemate. We're just, we're in Melbourne and we're always looking for mates. Uh, do you want to?

Michelle: Absolutely, I really need some friends. So once this is all over, um, yeah, I'm very available.

Josh: We got Zoom as well. But anyway, so sorry, TJ, back to you.

Tommy: Josh, Josh likes to use these opportunities to book out his next catch-ups with, uh, his new friends. So what's your question? Um, I had to— I was going to have two things when I said friends. Michelle, what's your schedule like at the moment with what's happened from, you know, ISO and coronavirus? I know that you— I've seen you in at the office in South Melbourne. What's changed in your world and the Keep It Cleaner world?

Michelle: Well, a lot's changed. We've obviously had to adapt to the current climate and be really considerate of that. This is my 7th week working from home. So, the whole team's been working from home, which means that we're online a lot. You definitely have to be extra diligent with how you communicate things and just make sure you're checking in with everyone. So, it is, it is a big change in terms of how we're working. And then, in terms of what my day-to-day looks like, it's really just about how we can keep targeting people within their homes. So, we launched a virtual gym And our co-founders have been running live workouts for free on Wednesdays and Fridays for over a month now, which has been great. And that's been a key focus of ours.

Josh: I thought I'd talked too much, so I was going to give TJ the stage. I've always got questions.

Tommy: The idea is one for one.

Josh: We do one. Yeah, but you did cheat this time.

Tommy: It goes out the window when we're doing a 24-hour livestream.

Josh: I normally fill silence and I was like, you know what, I'm just gonna— I'm feeling it. I know TJ's got something and that's what happens. What's sort of— what's your exercise regime at the moment like being in iso?

Michelle: I'm a pretty bad example, but I focus a lot on cooking. That's my favourite part of the Keep It Cleaner app. I love all of the recipes and I've been doing that just to distract myself. I feel like It's a hobby that you can definitely build on at the moment. But of course, I'm joining the live workouts and Pilates has been a go-to for me because I, you know, you don't have to break a sweat if you don't want to, but it's great to still tone up and get yourself moving, which is also so important if you are just indoors all day. I'm finding myself getting a bit of cabin fever.

Tommy: Michelle, what have you learned about coming from a brand like Bumble, which I don't know who owns it. There's not a face behind it other than I picture a bee when I think of Bumble. And then you go to Kick and you got the, uh, Laura, uh, you know, Laura Henshaw, Steph Clare-Smith. I think of those girls and I think about their brands that I know I connect with them. What have you learned about brands that have someone behind it and then brands that are standalone like Bumble?

Michelle: So the owner of Bumble actually is an incredible woman. She co-founded Tinder. And she ended up leaving Tinder as part of a sexual harassment case, which is public knowledge. But that's why on Bumble, women make the first move. So there actually is quite a big profile behind that brand over in the US. And then I— it was kind of my job to localise it over here. So I have actually dealt with that kind of a face before, but just never in the same country. And obviously that is one of the great benefits of now working at Keep It Clean. Cleaner. And the biggest thing that really stood out to me when joining was just the strength of the community that Steph and Laura have really cultivated and worked so hard to nurture. And that's one of the most incredible things about Laura and Steph is they just engage in that community every day, which is so unique for two owners of an app to really show such care about the people that use the product. So I really admire and respect Steph and Laura for that because, you know, running a company is a busy job in itself, let alone managing, you know, we've got a Facebook community at Keep It Cleaner now of nearly 35,000 people and it is incredibly active. So they're great at really showing that care. And I think, yeah, that's a really unique thing about the two of them.

Josh: I feel like you were a big part of Bumble in regards to that sort of sort of front-facing stuff. Was it hard leaving? Did you feel like from an identity perspective you had to do like any personal work?

Michelle: Yeah, I think I, I did have an identity crisis when I left. Um, I went silent on all of my social media channels for a while actually, um, and it was quite hard to deal with because I'd really found myself quite embedded in the Bumble brand. So it was a hard transition in that respect, but I'm still getting to do, you know, a lot, you know, the same sorts of things at Keep It Cleaner. I think what's made it a little challenging for me is that I'm very used to running at a million miles an hour, and, you know, we obviously had some big plans to do with Keep It Cleaner when I joined, and we've now had to change all of that due to what's happening in the world. So It's more just a personal struggle for me, slowing down, which this time in society has definitely made a lot of people have to do. And I think it's just a personal, you know, it's a personal opinion kind of on how you turn, how you deal with that. But yeah, I'm fine. I've got my identity back now and now identity.

Tommy: What's the learning of identity though in that? Is there any sort of retrospectives where you're like, maybe I put too much here, or, you know, I was thinking too much about this area? What's your thoughts?

Michelle: Yeah, that is a very, very great point. I think even now with what's going on in the world, it really, um, brings in some added perspective. I flogged myself at Bumble, um, and I loved doing that at the time, and I needed to do that at the time. But looking back on it now, I probably should have prioritised myself, my personal life, and my health better than I had. And I think that's one of the best things about working for Keep It Cleaner now is that I'm working for a company that really values mental and physical health and your well-being, and it's just so ingrained in the company. So that's really helped with that. But I think just Um, yeah, I, I probably did just invest so much of myself in that one brand. Um, and looking back on it now, I probably could have been a bit easier on myself from time to time, and that would have helped with the identity crisis as well, I think.

Tommy: I mean, yeah, just to follow up before you jump in, JJ, um, do you think it's required though? Because you did such an awesome job, you could look at it as like that's the way it needed to be done because that's the way I did it. Um, is there another perspective to that? Is there— there is multiple ways, or do you— did you need to do that painful process of, you know, what you— what you did to achieve that great result?

Michelle: I think it's an interesting one because in a startup, um, it is a lot like a race against the clock. Like, you've got to grow and you've got to grow quickly. And I think that that's a mentality that a lot of the early starters bring into those companies. You really do have to dedicate a lot of your time to it and prove it's going to work and do it quickly, especially in tech. Otherwise, you may miss the moment. So, so I think with Bumble, yes, I did need to do that. But also on a personal level, I just find I work more efficiently, you know, when, when I do kind of live and breathe the brand. So that helped even just on a personal level with my own performance. And now I'm lucky because I can come in to Keep It Cleaner at a different stage where it actually is already an established brand. And now I can really focus on how we grow and scale that. So it's a bit of a different requirement for me now.

Josh: On the, like, um, I guess company culture, and I feel like you're a high performer, like obviously you're doing crazy hours and working all the time. How do you deal with, uh, having colleagues or employees and setting expectations around what you expect?

Michelle: Yeah, so I would never hold anyone, um, to the same standards that I hold myself to. I'd probably have no one that would want to work for me. Um, I think that I, I really try to set a positive, um, example. Like, I put boundaries in place. I, I put this on my Instagram the other day, you know, if I'm working at 10 PM, I would never send an email to anyone in my team at that time because, you know, they're not in the role that I am in and I don't expect them to be online or responsive at those times. You know, I will set triggers so it sends to them at, you know, 9 AM the next day.

Josh: It's a real flex, you know.

Michelle: Yeah, really, really put the pressure on. But I think that again, like all of, you know, Kick is still a startup. And I think that startups do attract, you know, driven, fast-paced type people because that's the kind of culture that does exist in those kinds of companies. So there will be people who will just naturally want to dedicate a lot of their time to it. And I think as well, you know, when you have a powerful brand with a great mission that's doing great things, um, like Keep It Cleaner, then it's much easier to also give that extra time to it because you actually enjoy it.

Tommy: I think there's been a real reframing around bums on seats in offices, especially with everyone getting shit done at home. What's, what's it internal at Kick with getting stuff done and the situation you're in? And we've all been dealt.

Michelle: Yeah, I do think you need to be really considerate of different people's working style, and I also think there are so many things that are going on within the home as well. You know, everyone will be affected by this moment differently, so it's important for all managers and leaders to be considerate of what their teams may be dealing with at home as well, and maybe they don't have a home environment that is conducive to high productivity. So I think you just have to be mindful of that. But I also think there's some great benefits in this moment right now. We just hired someone new to our team who will be based in Newcastle because we've really seen that you can operate quite well virtually and that maybe you don't need to see people in the office every day to get stuff done. And I don't think we would have all been as open to that if we hadn't have proven it to ourselves within this moment now. So I think that's one of the great things that a lot of business— businesses might be realising firsthand at the moment.

Josh: Um, with the rebrand going from Bumble, making the shift— I like rebrands, and I also like, um, the transitions between roles, like of, um, I love storeys of, you know, people blowing up or whatever and, you know, cracking and leaving their, you know, office or getting walked out, that type of thing. Here we go. Um, what was the, uh, what's the conversation when you are such a pivotal part of a brand? I can imagine they would sort of be pretty upset to see, see you go. How do you sort of have the conversation and soften the blow on such a big decision?

Michelle: Yeah, there was no mic drop, me like speeding off in my car, dust twirling like as I left. Um, it was— I did go about it really considerately, and I wanted to do that. I cared, and I still do care so much about Bumble. Um, you know, I was the first employee in Australia and had to launch it in this country, so I felt I was so attached to it and the team. So I went straight to Whitney, the CEO over in the US, and I told her about it and I gave her the opportunity. You know, I wanted to let her know it was open for discussion a bit, but, you know, I had a few big conversations with her. But what made it easier was she really did beat me in it at the end. But I ended up working a 5-month notice period and finishing out some big projects for them just so I could leave them in the best position possible. And I think that as a younger person, I definitely did do like the mic drop, see you later stuff a few times. And it's— yeah, but it's just better to go about it considerately. Like, you come into a company trying to make a good impression on people, and that's how you should act leaving a company as well.

Tommy: Look, I think if you cross a bridge and then burn it down, you can't get back to the other side. So it's probably the best thing not to burn down a bridge. That's why we're down bridges.

Josh: Unless the people on the other side of the bridge are fucked, right? Like, let's be like, it's okay to burn some bridges. You've got to pick them.

Tommy: Oh, I don't know. I don't know.

Josh: You've never burnt a bridge?

Tommy: I was just going to say, Seb, can we put that 5-month 'cause I want a 12-month clause on your employment, please.' I mean, that can go either way.

Josh: I feel, Michelle, like having, having someone that gives 5 months notice, I've seen like where it's like really great and you pass it on. And then there's the other side, which is just like dragging a lot of time to ruin a company. Yeah, a lot of, a lot of time to burn shit up, right?

Michelle: Well, I guess, you know, I was really lucky because they always, um, really trusted me. I think they know I was not going to tear it to the ground. And I love the things I got to do at the end. You know, like the last thing I did was work on the Melbourne Cup, and that's such a, you know, a huge moment for a company. So, and very public as well. So I was never gonna stuff that one up.

Tommy: Michelle, what do you think, putting your marketing hat on, I guess it's always on, Not that you're wearing a hat now, but for a brand that doesn't have a powerhouse community behind it like the KICK girls and the business you're in, what do you think the sort of go— like one area to invest in your market, one area to invest your marketing efforts in when you don't have a brand, when you don't have a community yet?

Michelle: I think you can't do anything without a great product. I don't know if that's just an obvious, you know, cliché response, but you will never get a good community anyway if you don't have a decent product to offer them. I think, you know, everyone says product is king, and you can have a great product without it, you know, making a big difference in the world as well, and you'll still get this cult following if it's an amazing product. So I think just nailing the offering um, is the best, is the best thing to start with, and then you can go about the community that comes with it.

Josh: So you were talking, Michelle, about the, the fact that things obviously changed for Keep It Cleaner with all the COVID stuff. Was the, like, were you guys going to be doing a lot of events, or where, where was that big impact?

Michelle: Yeah, we were going to be doing a lot of events and activations within Australia, and we were also looking at international expansion. So we did have a few things, um, kind of already in the calendar for overseas, um, so obviously pulled the plug on all of that. But I do think it's been a good time for us to really reassess and regroup, um, and a great time to just bring the team together, um, you know, a few new team members at the moment, and it is a small company, so it's a good chance for us to reset and really get all of our strategy place before we, um, you know, kick off again.

Tommy: I guess it's a time for businesses to also look at the product offering and look at their offering and, and spend the time there. Because I know that when you're, when you're flying and you're trying to build out the team— we need more people— it, that can be a real distraction. Do you think there is a disadvantage to growing fast in a business, Michelle? And if so, what do you think it is?

Michelle: Yeah, I think that you— I mean, that probably comes back to reactiveness a little bit as well. I think that sometimes you can be so distracted by what's going on around you or what your competitors are doing that you might make some quick decisions to try and keep up, but they might not actually be the best decisions for your brand. So even just going back to what you were saying before, you know, without giving away too much, we have been using this time to look at our product and how we can make the user experience experience even better. But again, you know, there's only so much you can slow down, especially within those first few years in, in the startup space. But I think it's just about being— staying laser focused on what your goal is and, you know, not letting anything come into that lane to distract you from that.

Josh: You've— at Keep It Cleaner, there's like a few pillars. There's obviously sort of the digital product But I panic bought a bunch of the balls like a few weeks ago, but I ate them all in the first 2 days. And the problem is I think there's an odd number or whatever, so my girlfriend Bree and I are always like arguing who gets the third ball. But what's the deal when it comes to— like, I'm curious about the COVID-19 stuff, like how does supply chain and stuff from a food perspective? Has there been any interesting stuff with there? But also the challenges of having such differing sort of parts of the business.

Michelle: Yeah, so I honestly am not, um, the go-to person for grocery and can't speak from experience about how that's been because we have a separate grocery team who manage all of that. They sit within our office, but it is a separate, you know, department and kind structure over there. But of course, you know, this has been— it's impacted them enormously, particularly because of all of the panic buying and, you know, stock coming from places outside of Australia. But yeah, I don't proactively work on the grocery side, so I can't share as much knowledge as I'd like to there.

Tommy: Josh, it's so annoying. You wanted the discount, right, for the balls?

Josh: Yeah, yeah, that was a joke. To be honest, I don't like the exercise sizing bit. I'm with you, Michelle. Like, the, um, the food, the food bit sort of is where it's at.

Tommy: You're saying abs are made in the kitchen, right, Josh?

Josh: That's your thing? Potentially. What do you, uh, can't outrun a bad diet, you know?

Tommy: The word, the words pivot, uh, opportunity, very, very common at the moment, Michelle. Uh, those words being used, I mean within your vocab in what you're doing? Are you looking for that, or are you just sort of going, "Nup, we've got the opportunity, let's not get distracted"?

Michelle: Um, we— the only thing, you know, that we've really done to positive, you know, positively help people at the moment is the virtual gym. So that was us really leaning into the COVID-19 situation, having a look internally and thinking, what can we do here to help people? That was the pure basis for that. And we've had thousands of people on those lives every week, and we've loved being able to do that. It's obviously completely free, open to anyone. So it means it's really accessible and you can keep moving within your home and just get a bit of a taste for what Keep It Cleaner is like without actually having to subscribe, which I think is really important at the moment because so many people are being impacted financially. And that's the one thing that we did to acknowledge this time, which I think is really important. And then in the background, we've stayed focused on what we have coming up after this. So yeah, that, that's really the key change for us at the moment.

Tommy: I love it because it's almost like looking for where can we bring more value in this time. I think a lot of people might mistake the opportunity with where can— where's the opportunity for us? It's a bit like inward focused versus outwards, and it sounds like, yeah, outwards for you guys.

Michelle: Yeah, the virtual gym, um, you know, it was definitely— if anything, it makes you think, you know, are we going to lose people doing this because we're putting so much free content out there? But I don't think that that's what's important at the moment. That's not the right way to be thinking about this. So it really did come from a place of wanting to do good. And I think it does say so much about Laura and Steph because, you know, they've been giving their time every week, 2 or 3 times a week. And that just says so much about them as well, which, yeah, I love.

Josh: What's your screen time been like since being in iso?

Michelle: Oh my God. I've actually— yeah, yesterday I think I said to someone, am I going blind? Because I was starting to see colours differently. Differently, um, that I feel—

Josh: TikTok yet? Any of this?

Tommy: Shannon in the comments saying that Michelle and Bill are my favourite on TikTok.

Josh: So yes.

Michelle: Oh my God, yeah, I have been doing some TikToks with my boyfriend, but he is a way better dancer than me, so every time I put them up, it's with a little bit of hesitation because I just look so bad compared to him. Um, so yeah, TikTok's a good little side hobby at the moment.

Josh: I, um, on Bill, I did a, I, uh, did a panic. I was doing a lot of panic stuff lately. One of them was a panic head shave, which is an absolute disaster. Like, it's, yeah, it's also happened. It started, it's, yeah, anyway, uh, he's got a very nice head. Uh, what is he doing? What does he sort of do? How does it, what's the, what's the maintenance? Is there sort of, when, when you do the scalp health products, scalp health What's he using?

Tommy: Help, help, Michelle!

Michelle: He's lucky his head is quite a nice shape, um, but he moisturises his whole like face. Like if he was putting on face moisturizer, his face stops like back here, so he'll make sure he extends it all the way. Um, but he shaves it all, all the time. But, um, he was actually going to try to grow out He does still have some growth around here, so his ISO hair moment was going to be growing out the sides and dyeing them like platinum, um, but it just looked so horrific that I— we put a stop to that.

Josh: It would have been good for TikTok, they would have loved it. But I think, yeah, it's— I mean, is he going— is the aim of the game when you are bald to have it shiny, or is it— okay.

Michelle: Yeah, and you've really got to put a lot of sun cream on it. I mean, you've got the beanie on, so you're protected, but yeah, his bald little head can get very, um, sunburnt sometimes. So always got to make sure that you've got lots of sun cream on and just keep it really moisturized. And I think he shaves it every second day.

Josh: Really? Any, like, did he get any breakouts or anything with using so much moisturizer? I always worry about that with moisturizer, you know.

Michelle: He's quite lucky he has good skin. Um, but I'll let you know what brand he's using, um, and maybe you should try that one.

Josh: Yeah, definitely.

Tommy: Any itching? We could do a whole episode.

Josh: Have you, um, yeah, does he get an itchy head?

Michelle: Um, I don't think so. I don't know.

Josh: Does he wear beanies much?

Michelle: Yeah, he loves, he loves it. He loves that, you know, when we first met, it was always hats on because I think he was in a little bit of, um, denial about the inevitable that he was going to be bald. Um, but now he's embraced it, you know. He, he sells caps and jumpers that say bald.

Josh: Oh really? He's really lent it. You can go that way with it, can't you? You just sort of really lean in. I respect that. Yeah, definitely.

Tommy: I mean, you need to create an Instagram account for your head, Josh.

Josh: I mean, that's what I've got one for my toe thumb. Lean into it. Like, Toether, underscore Toether, on Instagram if you want to follow him. Oh my God, yeah, yeah, it's both sides. They're called a clubbed thumb. Uh, Megan Fox has one. And so, yeah, I mean, so was there a point where he shaved his head and then grew it back? Because the thing that seems to be happening is everyone's like, ah, it will grow back quick, which I find offensive because maybe this is like my rebrand, and so like maybe I don't want it to grow back.

Michelle: I think if it's thinning out, like, you've just got to, um, you just gotta take the plunge. Um, for Bill, it came down to a photo. I can still see the photo in my mind. He was— it was like from one of his games, and he was running with the ball, and he had been like, um, flattening down the little bit of hair that he had left. But obviously playing in the game, it had all popped up, and it's just the worst ever. So it was after that photo that it was all shaken up.

Josh: Was it emotional? Do you remember that? Would you remember the actual— the whole shaving experience? Like you and him in the shower sort of doing it together?

Michelle: Like, yeah, we've actually got photos, um, of me just, um, shaving it all off. It was fine because everyone then just said how much better he looked bald. So it's worked for him.

Josh: Okay.

Tommy: Uh, beauty regimes in, uh, in ISO. I mean— it's either a beauty disaster. Josh shaving his head could be seen as a breakdown.

Josh: But what, what's your go-to, you know, the skin, you know, for your skin in the, uh, in the comments? So yeah, you giving us a breakdown would be nice.

Michelle: Oh, okay. Um, so I usually am really lazy with my skin, but I was getting the ISO breakouts, so I invested in a— well, when I say invest, one of them was $13. Um, so I've got a really good vitamin C serum, which is from La Roche-Posay. I don't know if I'm saying that correctly. And then another good serum to put over the top of that, which is from The Ordinary, that was only $13. I feel like that's the one everyone wants to know about.

Josh: Okay, sure. Nice.

Tommy: Get those, snap those up. Hey, um, just, uh, Michelle, what's something you're looking forward to on the other side of ISO personally, not work-wise? Something that, um, that you're just craving or looking forward to?

Michelle: Oh, I just can't wait to go out for dinner. I feel like I'll never say no to plans ever again. I just want to go out for a nice meal, drink a little too much, and then go out.

Josh: I reckon that will change. I reckon like you'll regret saying that. Like now that you got your Melbourne mates, we'll just be— Michelle will come, like she'll go to any event. Yeah. I mean, what's your go-to restaurant in Melbourne? What do you normally— like to go to?

Michelle: Oh, I said this to someone yesterday, but I'd only just started going to Francois, which people had told me was like cool, a cool place to go to in Melbourne. Um, you know, I'm really trying to fit in, so I want to do, you know, what's— oh God, the place.

Josh: Is that the Cremorne place? Is that that one? No. Where's Francois?

Michelle: No, on Toorak Road.

Josh: Toorak Road. Okay.

Tommy: Yeah, French, but French. It's got awesome steaks. Snails. It's where I had my first snail.

Michelle: It's—

Tommy: yeah, we should do a— we should, you know, um, uh, you know, we should all go. How about that?

Josh: If we're friends. Um, I mean, to be honest, French, uh, cuisine, uh, like, it's not— it's not my favorite.

Tommy: I would, um, steak and fries, dude.

Josh: I would go— I would go I'd go Mexican, Thai, like there's probably— there's a bigger list before. What is it? Was it just the experience or do you actually like the food more than sort of your average food?

Michelle: Well, it's just that I've been there twice and both times that I went there it just turned into a really good night. So, I feel like it's a great place to start if you're looking for a good time. That's really what it comes down to. And the food and just the atmosphere is amazing and I just, yeah, I'm just dying to go go out for dinner with a limited friendship, you know, the friends that I do have, or you guys now.

Josh: Yeah, limited. I've never had anyone say a limited friendship group to them. And, um, so are you a traveler? Do you like traveling?

Michelle: Yeah, that's definitely one thing that I am missing.

Tommy: Um, it—

Michelle: when I was working at Bumble, I was travelling so I was actually catching over 100 flights a year, I worked out, and I was going overseas all the time. I feel fortunate that I'd already gone to Sri Lanka earlier this year just before lockdown happened, so I'm happy that I got that under my belt because that will, you know, help me kind of hang tight for a while. But I definitely am missing traveling. I think this is the longest I've been in one spot for— it would have to be at least 4 years. Um, so I— yeah, I definitely— that's where the cabin fever is coming from, I think. But I also know in the back of my mind that everything at Keep It Cleaner is going to begin to happen, you know, as fast as I've seen it happen in the past. So I, I know it won't be long before there's travel again. Well, if I am allowed to.

Tommy: What are you grateful for at the moment, just in this new world that we're living in?

Michelle: Oh, the strangest things. Like, even, um, even like looking outside now and it's a bad day, I feel like I don't think like that anymore because I just want to be out in it. Do you know what I mean? Um, so I think just getting outside, like the littlest things that I never even used to think of and take for granted, I'm grateful that we're all learning that at the moment. I think it's going to make us all better people. I can see us all now, you know, telling our kids— I don't know if you guys have kids, I don't— but about this time when we were trapped indoors, um, and just, you know, help them to appreciate those sorts of things.

Josh: Yeah, it's—

Tommy: I mean, it is crazy. It's so crazy. I mean, my grandfather was a prisoner of war, like he was in a generation of World War II. But I mean, he was an older grandpa of my generation. So, this is our equivalent of something where we're all forced—

Josh: Well, the Uber Eats and, you know, sort of Netflix.

Tommy: It's a little bit different, right?

Josh: The worst thing to happen is the Uber Eats guy doesn't actually go up the lift and I have to go down. But other than that, it's not too bad.

Tommy: And Françoise is closed. It's absolutely annoying.

Josh: I had to get Françoise delivered and the snails were cold. Enough snails. Do you eat the snails cold or hot?

Michelle: Hot. If you ate them cold, fully, that would just be like— you could pick one up off the street.

Josh: Yeah, that's a good point. But maybe it's like sushi, you know, like the good stuff. You get the good snails or whatever, you can do it that way.

Michelle: Yeah, no, definitely warm. Um, and it's all— they're just cooking amazing. Is it like a garlic butter? I can't quite remember, but it's the force that they're in that just makes it.

Josh: Okay, yeah, it's always interesting. You realise the next day that Russ Keys is saying, oh, JJ, expand your boundaries. Well, the thing is, Russ, like, I like lots of different foods. I ate French food in France. Um, how more, how more open can I fucking get? But, um, I had a crepe underneath the Eiffel Tower. I mean, if that's not expanding your boundaries. It cost an absolute bomb. It was like, I think €25 for a crepe, and we nearly got—

Tommy: but God, you'd pay, you'd pay that €25 once again with being inside.

Josh: Definitely. Yeah, exactly.

Tommy: Um, all right, Michelle, thank you so much for coming on the show. It's, um, it's, uh, it's our 24-hour episode, so, uh, we're really appreciative that you were able to make it on. You've been in the green room, and, and we haven't said anything that's too defamatory after already going for nearly 6 hours, so we really appreciate you.

Michelle: No, thank you so much for having me. Good luck with the rest of the show.

Josh: Thanks, thanks, Michelle. It could go either way. And so what I'll do is—

Tommy: it will go, it will go the way it will.

Josh: Yeah, yeah, yeah.