0:03
It's a daily Talk Show Episode 601 we're out of the studio

0:08
and we're in Narre Warren, your old stomping ground. Yes, we have some great stories along the way which I want bring up could involve Krispy kremes

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now that no different we are in what I would describe as a very red room where VentraIP, Angelo, welcome. I like

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that I just like just Madonna.

0:33
I mean, you've got a Jackie, this is your office here. This is your IQ. It's a I mean, you've got this is what I love, like not ornaments, but like sentimental things in your office. So you've got a scooter behind us. You got two versions even electric and an old vest for the I've got a Tesla so I'm making the transition to electric. I love it. I love it. But what is this in the corner out out out? It's a bath gown. Some kind of gown on a mannequin which I could put it on if you like, Oh, this is this is a story from it's actually it's probably gonna made it sound better than one of these now God is gonna be disappointed. I I'm known for being really quite level headed and if the story she'd asked you to put it on,

1:18
you can judge that with nothing

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exclusive to this car

1:26
and we were talking earlier about constantly doing renovations to the splice. So when we were building the area that you saw earlier, which had the you know, the commentary with the fishbowl is what we call and we had the doors open because the builders are coming in and out in and out in and out. And we had a bunch of people just turn up like a row like 10 and 15 that were like literally conquering through our office just for two hours

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of our

1:52
office self self appointed to and I was in the kitchen having lunch and it was it was bad one o'clock in and people around and So Kevin, he goes, Who the hell are these people? Is it I don't know. So I went over to to our Buddha who was like talking to them I said, I've been to the who these guys are. These are some people from upstairs, they just wanted to see the space or that they just walked in. So that's fantastic. You cannot get out

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of the office. And it was now tokenized I got a jacket made

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a joke of the climb that we had that did the exact same thing. Yeah.

2:28
It's a compliment my clean level headed nature. And yeah, I heard him out. There was a footage from the security system that like got made into like a 15. I'm probably find like a 10 second snippet of me just hurting people.

2:43
Yeah, but you don't have to put it on but I want to

2:44
share with you in at the end. Having a business that does web hosting, how do you describe to the average person what web hosting is? It's the average guy here. wants to know Yes.

3:00
It's essentially a place where all your website leaves and we serve it, I suppose. So try I'm trying to describe web hosting without the words web or hosting in the description. I'm going to description the other day that was like, it's where websites can host it. I'm like, yeah, you just repeat it. So essentially, website files to get complex seat on a server in the cloud. And when you request that from your browser at home, when your internet, you request it from the, from the cloud from the servers and pull it down, you can view it on the web hosting parties, the storage on the cloud, and in the serving of that content to the end user. So that's web hosting. That was not a grandma, your grandmother would have fallen asleep from that description. By Your daddy's web hosting. It was a lot a lot. That's very simplistic. So this is I feel like some kind of Candyland for Josh.

3:48
Like, I don't think I was annoying you before with all the questions I was asked.

3:51
Well, there's a lot of questions but it's because you're in your element. It's, it's, it's very tech heavy, which let's explain how we even have got to Be here.

4:00
Well, yeah, so we had a, we were with a web host there was in the US we had issues without. It turns out there was one self managed, self managed. Yeah, we had a, we had an instance and we just self managed and installed it. And it turns out that I was like, 90 sevens, got it all covered with fine is managing it. And then one day we decided to, he's like, are these updates? Should I run the updates? I was like, yeah, sure, you can run the updates, until he runs the updates. And our home site goes down and he starts to the swelling goes up, it's not working. He's speaking to us trying to speak to support of this company, this American company, not having any luck at all. And it turns out, I'm like, so like, what's the learning here? It's like, well, we shouldn't self manage we should have someone manage it for us. And so then we're like, Okay, let's go local. Let's find who can who can we do it so we can actually pick up the phone. When you know we should the bed. How do we avoid 97 clicking up to

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have a computer

5:04
that's the takeaway I

5:06
want the whole entire site lost it all but then somehow you got about

5:10
yeah so we worked at we we were able to you know find a backup or whatever. But yeah I mean talking about the backup sorry the the update thing 97 is the type of guy to walk it in the morning and check if there's a Mac OS update to by himself about 45 minutes. The other day I was like, What are you doing? Sup man, I've still got 40 minutes

5:32
I do the exact same thing walking to meetings on clicked Update, I'm sorry.

5:38
And so I didn't realise the importance of having something like hosting local is that a big thing that you've noticed that people coming to venture IP

5:47
Yeah, that's that's I don't wanna make this like a sales pitch. It's it's, you know, I'm not a salesperson I we the differentiating factor between us and some of the the other players in the market is that it's 100% Australian Apart from me down to being in Australia, on Australian servers, know all the servers that exist in Australia, your actual support your infrastructure, your team that you rely on, that you will, when something goes wrong is all in Australia. So you pick up the phone 24 hours a day, there's someone here in Melbourne, and actually just literally, a couple of door, a couple of walls behind here that you will speak to. And that's the differentiating factor is that people don't realise, I mean hosting with an overseas provider who's a couple dollars a month or you know, hundreds of dollars a month and its overseas is all good and well until something goes wrong. And when something goes wrong, that's a true test of your provider, and the ability to feel provided to respond. So that's where we differentiate. I mean, a lot of our a lot of the customers that come to us, and a lot of the stuff that we learn in from the market is that people don't really know that they need a new provider or that we kind of really exist as an alternate until they need it. Which is really like it's it's so simple to think about but people don't really like you don't realise it's I don't want to use the term utility because I don't think it's it's anything of that scale, we turn the power on, you turn a light switch on it, it comes on, you don't think about your power, you don't think about the the infrastructure, you don't think about the retail company supplying it. It works when something goes wrong, then you think about it all. And you're like, what can I do to exactly as you said, to mitigate this from happening again? And that's where we were our differentiator is is the fact that we are that when you need when you need us, we're here. And you don't really know that you need us if you're not with us until, you know that sounds really, but yeah, do you need us say that that's that's the end. That's the biggest thing that we find, and that's the biggest thing and that's that's the thing that makes me happy. I mean, obviously businesses are in it, want to make money and it's the premise of business. But primarily, it's about offering Australians and offering because we've focused primarily 99.9% on Australia, about offering Australians a choice that is still local, supporting local businesses, supporting local people. in the southeast suburbs of Melbourne, in the people who are working here, and in supporting people who and giving them an option and you know an option that that everything else is outsourced, everything else is overseas. You know, you buy you'd be surprised at how many people don't know that these large. I don't specifically say their name. I think they call us green. And they do used to be NASCAR sponsors. They do huge Superbowl ads, which is crucial give it away, but a lot of people don't realise that. I didn't get

8:27
you. You were mentioning him in the car. The hot the hot sauce, guys. Yeah.

8:32
Yes. And that's the thing. It's, it's all about the sauce.

8:36
Yeah, right.

8:46
don't realise that, that they actually all the support is not in Australia. None of this important Australia. I think they have a team, a small team in Australia. They have some Australian operations, but they're an overseas company primarily and a lot of people don't realise that and it's, you know, kudos to them. And they clever marketing, because what's more Australian than right ma? But yeah, a lot of people don't realise that and for the most part, I don't I don't I'm not I don't want a bad method there is this industry is so small in the sense that there's a handful of providers that everyone kind of knows everyone. I don't want to bad mouth anyone but and inside that they support trucking. But you don't really know until something goes wrong, like you click a button or until your heisting goes down or your emails because Dan, you need to contact support. And that's a true test of the bravado and a lot of people don't realise that that there isn't a dwindling number of Australian businesses that are based in Australia with a strain operations that still do this. And that's that's what we stand for. And that's what we asked. That's why that's why after living, whatever, 11 and a half years old now, that's why we I stay. Not necessarily maybe that's why I'm staying in this business. That's why we're staying here. That's why we haven't sold to a to one of the overseas companies. That's right. I once had the name, but one that I was with that was Victorian based, and then they sold and it did change slightly. It does it's it might not be an instant change and that's the thing we've done acquisitions before and, and I've seen I've been in this industry in my whole life. So you're 2929 11 so how many years? How old were you when you started? When did you we, my my story in coming into this is like, literally I fell into this space. I also work part time for a another web hosting provider when I was 1516 doing support, and that's where I met Shane, who's now who's my business partner in building Ventra. And he was the general manager of that company at the time. And I worked alongside him and I thought, holy crap I love like this industry. I kind of had a website I dabbled in online. I dabbled in, you know, the whole reselling space and I had a website for Actually Actually the funny said podcast. I used to edit podcasts and host them but never produced them. It's always the Harris The man is the host and we're the provider. overseas exactly the same story with an overseas provider. And then I found a local provider engaged in the community because they had a great forum community based in Melbourne. And the speeds blew me away to like the speeds of uploading the files like holy crap, like what? Why was I dealing with these? So I fell in love with the with the whole idea of it then I didn't fell in love with the company that I was hosting with and the mantra and then I was kind of like the fanboy and I put a dropout up and I think I was in high school stage and I was like, I can't do a pay job. I got a high school full time. So I was kind of like dabbling around then I applied for tech support job and it was full time and I said no, I can't do full time. Part time more capital. And I'm isolated apparently I shine dragons of the first time I came into the into any still chance to active network both so active in this business. Here is the first time I came into the office. I was like, I had Baden cologne. I was like this 15 year old rocking up the train but Baden cologne somebody made an impact. I like it. Friday's Brian sells enough that he was like, You know what, why. And then I and then I fell in love from then and continue to grow the business and we continue to work together and and I remember working we had school holidays, and I'd worked for the company now for a couple of months. And we had school holidays and I work literally every day the school holidays full time and I said, I don't care what you have to do. I think I was 10 or 11 stages I don't care what you have to do. I love these and this is what I want to do. So I don't want to I don't want to do school like somethings better than school. So as it says it will find a way to make it work and Business Management traineeship was born and there was a big big change for like big European background family mom's a teacher, families, teachers and to get you know what, I don't want to finish my VC I'm gonna go in pathway into it and say I'm gonna do it. What did you leave school year 11 half of this or read the story but the venture way back unfinished, which is a good encouragement. Like I would encourage anyone to like follow your passion and dream but do something but VCs like You don't realise the time but it's it's so important the uni side can compact and depends what you're doing I wouldn't go to a heart surgeon that hasn't got a qualification but you know I just

13:12
want to tell you if I can cut you up it's fine

13:16
but I you underestimate the time how important it is and then afterwards

13:20
it's what's it what's the important bit though Mr. 97 The reason he's got that nickname he got a 97 enter score. I got I think like in my 40 something Tommy never finished.

13:32
We thought we could have had

13:35
very high I look I went back and kill it now.

13:39
You'd be great at 12

13:40
Yeah, I you know, I think that I wish they would teach I wish they would teach you more practical skills. I don't know what education is like these days. Like I I'm so disconnected. I see news articles and and I see like what's going on in schools and like, I wonder what it would be like to go back to school now. Or like really leave your your VCA as bigots keep your knowledge lucky to get everything now you get to go back in time. Everything you've learned you get to keep, I think about that all the time.

14:03
Absolutely kill it.

14:04
I probably be a devil.

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The thing is, is like Why wasn't I used like,

14:10
you'd use Trello you'd have it all dialled in, like, I couldn't even work out how to use a planner, the whole planet thing. And so did you actually get into school?

14:20
When I went back? I did. I did. I was 79. So you know, I actually got told because as I said, I'll read the story. So that company ended up selling to a to another company that was based in Australia still. So we're from a team of like five people at at the first provided to a team of 40 and as a big change for a 16 year old stage that were based in Canberra. Only three of us moved to Canberra I relocated was the world of promises. I was this naive 16 year olds like yes, this is a world of dreams is fantastic. fireworks. Yeah, like everything. In camera is a bunch of stuff in camera. losses, losses. Sorry, just those three things that we mentioned we that camera, let it all happen. George George from camera. Sorry. Just wait

15:15
until you actually what was your family saying when you were like I'm gonna do this?

15:19
Well it already said I do want to finish school we're not been doing that for like six months and working full time. So I think like the band has already been torn off at that point as big change as the first like, I mean, I'd say now if I if I live closer to home I would love to go back and live at home like I'm a laundry john, I want to I don't anymore. I'll just get back in the cave and just do nothing. No, that was it. It was a big change. It was a big change that were really supportive. I used to fly back every every weekend. And I was a for about three months, three, four months and and the business management side of things that because I was doing a deployment the time kind of changed a little bit that was no longer included. Was reshuffled in the army. And it just, it just was the vibe wasn't the same. And I said, No, no, I'm not gonna do this. I want to be miserable, miserable, but I don't want to be upset. I'm still young, I want to go back while I can. And I said I'm done with it. I'm so far done with it. Was it a support role that you would like the actual role I was brought in as with the, with the promise of brand management and waving towards like BDM sod in sales. But I was being followed through several years back to support and I said back to support and I want to be in the latest but like i we'd worked at at the other company for so long, and I'd slowly transition I'm still doing support, like as a team of five everyone's doing support. But when I transitioned more into the brand management, the community engagement side, then get thrown back to a company now 40 that has a lot more processes and structures in place and say now you just on the Help Desk. It was kind of like a bit. No, but I wanted you know, this is I was working for something. You're dealing with people like Miss 97 colleagues, I help me. I'm happy to I love doing support now like if you call us the off chance I'm not I'm very much not allowed to, but I get told off but I am I love answering calls mechanicals now

17:09
because you're really good at this

17:13
change. I am so rusty and that's what you learn doing coming news important like after like not doing it every day. You learn you sir rusty lucky you what era?

17:25
Which safe? What do you see?

17:29
Tom rusty sound like it's just the The only thing that I'm I would say I would give credit to that that I might have is more of the infection that kind of

17:38
a rational answer. I'm gonna try that one out.

17:41
Do you think you need to have worked in all areas of the business to as a founder? Oh, yeah. Yeah, I would say that. I would say that anyone to to in any leadership position would need to work in all aspects of a business to understand it. You've got to understand I mean, you to manage people in a business that is that is multifaceted. has multiple departments, you need to understand every core aspect of the business. The only way to really get a grasp of that is to work through every part of the business. I've been been blessed in the sense that we started. When we started Ventra. It was literally three of us, four of us. And we had to do everything. And I've always done and I've always been used to doing everything that's been the biggest, the hardest part to kind of learn as we've gone from a company of four to now company of 60 is to let go and to delegate and I'm still a control freak. And I still like no, no, I want to do it. I want to do everything. I want to be in control of everything. I want to be operational. That's been the biggest challenge because yeah, I come from that background and being so hands on that it is so difficult to then go and be more holistic and not so much hands on still a challenge at 60. fable. Yeah. And so I think that amazing. Yeah, because I think that sort of, if there's three of you, and then that sort of initial sort of level up in terms of how big the team is, is that the hardest bit Do you think to sort of grow out and expect The team from just being a couple of people there in your own heads, you know each other really well. And you know how everything works to them work out. How do we fucking get other people involved. That's the that's been the biggest thing. The biggest thing for me and I and we have a great team of people that work for us. But it's also the passion. It's so hard to find people who are so passionate, not even just about the hosting space, but passionate about the business as a sense, which is why you walk around this office and it's so like, relaxed and there's so many facilities. perks is what I use is like the lunch, the breakfast, the you know, the gym, the rec area and all that because it's about fostering a passion for the business and about fostering a true, a true love for the business. That is the hardest part. That is the hardest part. That's been the hardest part of as you as you start to grow, it's really hard and it gets difficult and more challenging to foster that and find that in people. So that's probably been the biggest The biggest change in terms of it's gone from, for me, necessarily Not loosely speaking, managing customers, to managing people in internally now it's a whole new task in itself. It's a new skill set, you're needing to develop, you've spent all your time on the ground doing the thing. And then you're like, now I'm gonna learn this whole other learn management, like learn to manage people, and that's the, and I've always, you know, I've always respected mentors in the industry and any industry in any business overall and looked at people but I come from a part of running a business, I don't have a business degree and I come from a finance background and you know, I don't have any of those, you know, those those things, most of what we're doing, I'm already we're already doing all of that. It's just putting the words to it. So you've had to learn it on the job is what I'm trying to say. You have to have learn learn as you go. And the hardest part is I know it sounds so so silly to say fake it till you make it. But when you when you're speaking with someone about a, you know, a agreements issue that you've never dealt with before, as a as a boss and as a manager, and as an owner of a company that's managing a team of people. If you've never done that before, and you've got no basis, you kind of have to, if to be consoling to someone, you have to convince them that you know what you're doing. And that is the strangest part is kind of going, I really don't know what I'm doing. I got to convince you that I know what I'm doing. And then in the back of my mind going, but am I doing the right thing? Hmm. So that that yeah, that is definitely it's a completely different task. And if you don't have a background in it, or an education in it, or you know, any, any principles that kind of define it, it's it's a lot of reading, and it's a lot of learning, and a lot of mistakes.

21:33
And so being in camera three months in three months in how do you make the decision to change paths? How do you how do you make the decision to like you've you've, you've moved there, you've told all your your mate, you've told your family, and now things are changing was that hard?

21:52
That was probably the biggest thing as you know, I had a lot of naysayers. That would be like, uh, you know, is it a bad idea? Don't do it. It's gonna Did and that was the biggest thing worrying about people going on. I told you so you should have done it. And a lot of my mates at that point because it was probably the first one I've lifted, which it was this I think was the start of year 11 So a lot of my mates by that point I'd already finished that we need 12 were already everyone was need 12 and I knew that I wanted I knew I had to go back to school because I had nothing I mean I could have done other things but primarily my parents were kind of like and family was like you should go back to school you're not enjoying it this this is really something that you know, as in schools as a standard as in it's it's it's kind of the thing you fall back to so I'd rather you go back to school then do nothing. And I was a bit lost at the time and I'm like not knowing what ever working it again. I had at the time I still had a passion still do have a passion for commercial radio. I love commercial radio. I studied English right and even finished technically my my postgraduate nuts at Swinburne which no longer has run anymore so I can no longer finish it. Thanks Josh has a great relationship with radio strong

22:59
network We're good. We have a radio background.

23:05
So I said I'm done with it, so I wouldn't finish school. I didn't really I think Shane and everyone else who had moved was slowly dwindling from the other company. And they moved back to Melbourne. And essentially, I just got to the end of my you 12 I to repeat your 11 2020 School is that now I'm not going to do this with with sweat from a from a Catholic all boys schools and ponents in in essence and to Footscray city, which I think is now called. I think it goes without school in Footscray. And someone from black, a semi semi private, the Catholic boys school and public school. And it was it that was just a mind. Look us as crazy. And someone back finished my ripping my 11 finish my 12 Oh start to finish my age. I've got halfway through year 12. And then Shane reaches out to me and says look, we actually Enough to to want to do this again we want to it was probably I would say to oversimplify It was probably born out of vendetta and jet not not jealousy but a vendetta to get back and go you know what screw the company that that bought us that Mabel bought in by us but bought them promised us the world and didn't believe our screw them we're gonna beat them with their own game we're gonna be like Ninja Turtles Can I just say I walk past that office and I didn't see all I could see was some ninja turtle stuff TVs that I said to Caitlin Is this the kids room and then I realised I was in there. Side by side my kids would ruin this one.

24:56
Love Ninja Turtles

25:00
harassing

25:02
my office wish

25:06
and so he says and by the way we're doing fat fighters can we get fat fries doing sad You

25:17
know, I support it I've been I've been I said to you before I've been smashing grains and

25:26
97 what so Caitlin gave us a list of how many pies there's like all the pies there were

25:34
were they from there from a local pawn shop and actually down down the road and packing yeah which you keeping business we actually get pickup orders and I think they still ask was actually has Angela how many pies drinking got delivered to 5060 years or more?

25:54
Yeah, cuz cuz you can order multiple

26:00
local park shopping packing I mean like side, the NIH it's not prime minister. It used to be called pot pie and mighty pie and mighty. Let's

26:09
say this one. What have I got? You've got the Mexican one. This is great Mexican, the salsa sour cream pie.

26:15
Yeah, good. intolerant. Really? It's not good.

26:19
Do you know Mexican Cantina down the road is my favourite Mexican establishment. Really? I thought that you would know it. But if you don't, I didn't like it. I know. I know. Every band caught the community management back in the day. It was really I was such a fan that they just gave me a bunch of free food and I took photos and to their Facebook.

26:40
I sort of I got you've got the chicken parmer pie. Yeah.

26:44
What I like is that he's he's making up for the taking our server down

26:49
the kind of pies that you and I appreciate that. And so what did George get, by the way? Mr. Nice. Give me a second. I think he's I've got a chicken and avocado. And then the other one

27:04
just just quickly, should avocado be hated.

27:08
It gets beat off.

27:19
Week One. Alright, so I'm gonna I'm just going to talk about kids. Tell us more. You're a great storyteller. I recommend me. I mean, I could imagine you doing radio to do

27:30
on a really product production. You want to do imaging. imaging I wanted to do

27:35
you want to do the daily talk shows images.

27:38
Time. Look long time since I've used Pro Tools. audition, but I'm

27:46
just picking up again. Yeah. Just

27:48
like say Patty Sigler. chicken parm epi for the

27:51
weekend for me.

27:53
Great. So you're doing some low carb thing.

28:00
It's in a bowl which I have a pit height for bowls. But anyway,

28:04
what does that What do you mean? I just don't like bowls. Really? How do you wait? Ice cream?

28:11
out of the head?

28:13
Yeah. What's it What is your issue with bowls?

28:15
Honestly honestly, yes, it's like yeah, I don't stack the dishes in the dishwasher really well that's seriously my issue. So you take out three rungs where you could put plates and then you can't stack them too closely because they shadow which is a term I don't know if you know if dishes don't wash properly they covered by the dishes at shadowing.

28:39
Saw balls that they're not designed

28:42
shouldn't exist.

28:45
What about burrito bowl? That's low

28:49
key. I just saw some photos.

28:53
Yes, it's my nephew might

28:54
not have if you're gonna have kids. Yeah, we're if it's not, not officially nine, but we're in the process of, of embryo creation and surrogacy in America had that word journey. I'm so sick of like doing this like Contiki to its target the agencies in the States and around the world. And they will talk about the journey. You have to hear that word again. I'm gonna like throw something out the window. But yeah, we're in the process of that, man. We went balls at the time. The kid comes paper. Balls. I want everything about my kid. He can't do pytor annoying theme. Yeah, I

29:30
mean, it's on the sides. Sorry, I just got to give some ball. I had to give balls. Some love even

29:36
now I've taught

29:39
three dog

29:41
dog in the place that matter because it's the figures everywhere.

29:44
Yeah,

29:45
no, I agree with it. I'm all for this. I'm gonna buy it. But I want to also hear how you and Shane when they have a vendetta when. But let's be honest, you don't need to eight During this because those grains I already calories Yeah, sorry just fast Yeah, so how so? How old was Shane when he was like approaching it was it sort of we'd having like a, like a fairly old as

30:17
I hadn't yet so you insulted him with a ninja turtle? I was like 40 years old. He's not he's not nine years older than me. Okay. Okay, so the thing that he's when I was working, he was more established. I think he's more established in the industry more established as a like, I say a mentor and someone I look up like, I look up to him. He's not he's only nine years but he comes from a wealth of knowledge and a wealth of worldly experience. Nine years makes him 38 that's only two years or 40. I just want to defend my position of saying 40 I just rounded up I

30:53
highlight the

30:56
like, I used to hate the I laid the whole age gap but now I love it because I fully

31:05
sold down here but

31:05
I sold it here that's all that's what I've been told. So I'm looking forward to it that's that's why I'm getting on the greens early and the bowls and

31:12
what good content I got it was radio imaging not radio production or that would have been a disaster so I recently and we and and he says you won't do this again. And I was like, absolutely not. Absolutely not. Never again. I see now what? He goes anytime I can trust, I need some I can trust someone on our work. Well, somebody knows the industry. I need a right hand man. So I'm gonna help this business and help grow the business. I know you know what you're doing? Still don't know what I'm doing. Say fake it till you make it. You know what you're doing? You you you have a passion for it. You could with customers when I need I need someone I can trust you want to do this? And I said yes, but I want to finish my because I was like, literally towards the end of it. 12 said yet, but I want to be 2012 he said fine. And this can be yours and you can we can start the business and I mean he they'd been running the technical side co founder but they've I think there were like six months when when I started like officially six months old business said you can come on and be a co founder and whatnot but you have to get over it when you're into

32:20
rounded up Shane come on up again

32:21
so obviously I like I demanders took my way into it was it

32:27
was 79

32:30
so I said that that happened and at the same time it was it was still it was it was a lot work is a lot of work but I was still had the passion in radio and I said I don't want to do what I did last time and which is focused solely on one thing for it. I want to put my all my eggs in one

32:45
basket. What did that dream look like the radio dream? Where do you what was your ultimate employer,

32:50
ultimate employee? Your laugh at these multiple employer at the time that when I see I don't stare ultimate employer because I had a lot of respect for Matt Nikolic. Work Yeah. So I wanted to work on his work

33:07
and he's smashing it at podcast one oh

33:14
sorry sorry that was my ultimate desire Yeah. So I studied so I was still studying I say studying very loosely I think if if Jim he's watching from from someone was watching it's like you never came to anything like hey you say you were studying you never like turned up to classes. I was working and running a business. So I got the celebration for the

33:46
withholding like

33:49
i said i think i was doing peril I had the wrong settings. It was like a huge tax refund. There's a cool is that is that good. But it's because you're withholding for hex is I'm like it's good because that's both in economics. You don't want That

34:12
phrase was la say why don't spend the money

34:17
get a text built into the server exciting.

34:20
So yeah so so it depends instead of studying as use the term loosely and and working, and I got to the point where I literally had one more assignment to go as women and it was the final and it was a placement and it was also regional placement. So I came to the point to Somerset was that it was a thanks Ventra Thanks for the memories and see light I'm going to pursue this commercial radio dream or I'll put that on hold, pause whatever and focus on Ventra because I couldn't do it was the

34:52
radio so Tommy worked at shepherd and he was an announced

34:55
it wasn't shipping ah i ne testing my main round. It wasn't I think it might have been no, it was I think it was an ice network station ownable it might have been wonderful, I think. Yeah, it was a it was a it was a joy and

35:14
a great choice I look Yeah, I mean, but also the amount of banter that we could have on a weight like between radio it this is I'm taking this go on buddy it's fun

35:37
cycling again but you can record anytime you want. Yeah, have you pause? You gotta do it like, we don't do that. We do cook it we do cooking Janine and Mel and in the kitchen do during the week, Monday to Thursday. We always trying to team to Team dinner, a team lunch we everyone's together on a Friday doesn't really work out that way because we still got people answering calls and you know, that seems kind of split We've run out of space in the kitchen got everyone together have to like separate trestle table to have everyone sitting down. But it's important for us on Friday but we will eventually do a to the kitchen or five I'm appointees used to come in during the week and chat during the week

36:15
day. Yeah, definitely the cook food I'll be on Monday and Friday.

Saturday. And so you're at a crossroads. You have to decide between going regional and going down the path of radio or doing Ventra Was it an easy decision?

36:35
It wasn't it wasn't an easy decision. It was it was I think was the right decision. My I love what I do. I love what I do now. I always think oh, you know, I'd be no this besides me to say I don't think of what could have been. And I kind of got discouraged a lot from the whole regional enemy. Maybe I'm in the latest but like I don't want to do like I don't want to do the regional

36:58
Yeah. I

37:00
employ a do you think? Probably not. Now like, and I'm like, I really like being my own boss. I don't really know if I could do and there's a couple of students that I did in between as a mall Ventra and studying and working somewhere else as well. And it you know it and I was like, and I think that kind of came together to the to the ultimate decision was like, I don't think I don't think I could work for somebody. Yeah, I really think I couldn't. Yeah, I couldn't take direction. I really liked the flexibility and just being able to sort of run your own race you know, do it you I just love I was assigned when I was working in so you had your structure. The closest thing was radio that you did sort of finish and you could go off and do live a life and but yeah, that was the closest I'd be a sheet employee. It's different it's it Look, it's got its it's got its benefits in being a boss and having the flexibility but it's also the fact that you could literally, I think is an employee, go home switch off and you have to worry that comment. Is the grass is greener on the other side? What we always we always have this like what's the job you'd peak? I know it's probably Cliff you in the radio space but what's the job you pick when everything gets a bit too much pressure and you're feeling a bit down as someone who's founded a business and it's you know grown what's the job that you would do? I drive past a cop and like all right, I'll be good cop. All right. Yeah, that wouldn't mind that. I just I looked into it 10 weeks and you leave not bad. That's really damn it.

38:37
I've never thought about that.

38:38
Well, that's good. I think I have time to think I try to see man a put me on the spot. What would I do will be the ideal job. I would. It's already like I say I don't want to work in it. But I probably my ideal job. I would love to spend maybe Okay, can I spend a week, two weeks maybe? Yeah, she'll drive to Loctite. I've been two weeks at Google. Yeah,

39:00
yeah, in what department?

39:01
Okay. I just want@google.com i think i think

39:11
let's just shoot at random stephanie@google.com Yeah.

39:20
What's crazy is like I think about my parents and you know your family and the generations before them the businesses that were in existence then like mom and dad, creating a video production company and podcast wasn't available to them like it is for us today. This business that you're a part of, like for our parents, what was was this around like when did this hosting and all the website stuff like to the accessibility that it exists? It probably explode I would say accessibility wise probably about getting more and more accessible every day, every every year, every day. explosion wise was probably at 12 years ago, 1214 years ago. And it was it was primarily from the US market, I think was that when GoDaddy was huge, I think it was, it wasn't so much about the web hosting. And I think it's the key is not to sell it as it's meant to be like a web package. GoDaddy would be on the domains. When they did their advertising. Yeah, huge, huge campaigns. Back 15 years ago, I think it was 15. Now I'm gonna have

40:27
two choices when like, the podcasting stuff, even like diggnation if you remember, like those podcasts would always be advertising them. Yes, yes. Correct. Yep.

40:36
Yeah, that was the explosion, I think was about getting a domain name and about getting your, you know, your name.com or something like that. And then it kind of evolved from there and and I think it's going to happen again, and the next wave and real reiteration of you know, online is going to happen again, what it looks like, I don't know. Social media is huge. Like, I feel I feel old, he's a 30 year old, like when people talk about Tick tock,

41:03
and don't tell me he's on to talk. Yeah.

41:07
I gotta

41:09
take it away.

41:11
What do you think? What do you think like our kids and their kids? What the new thing? I mean, if we knew the answer would probably be quite rich, but the understanding what will be the jobs that they have, that weren't in our mind at this time? space? in space? Do you think covering covercraft some,

41:29
the hosting thing like is cloud cloud, like, loud and hosting, interchangeable, like, it feels like there was a separation, but now it's a little bit more sort of

41:40
cloud was cloud, the term cloud is so undefined and it's kind of gonna be getting a little bit more like integrated, you said, but it was so anything could be cloud, like anything web based could be cloud. And that whole vision of cloud is is changing. I think the reasons besides integrating and kind of amalgamating together is because it's just becoming Generally adopted as the word for the internet is the cloud and you know, anything that's not local is is the cloud that will do well jumping on

42:07
it to make iCloud

42:12
on the branding of the cloud, yeah.

42:14
Which I think is a very consumer thing. I mean, like Amazon, obviously, with AWS, that sort of thing is like,

42:22
is that the beam is on web services? Is that the,

42:25
from a competition point of view? With Ventra? Is that a consideration? like is that like the Amazons

42:34
net? People say, oh, how do you how do you feel about the the, you know, the when, when Google Cloud GCP launch Lou Cloud Platform launched in secret? People are like, how do you feel that Google coming soon it's, I kind of think of as a complimentary service because we, that is so bespoke, in the sense that you can set up self service spoken so complex, that it's not a commodity, whereas fundamentally what what Ventra VentureBeat Australia sells his commodity and web. And it's meant to be a web package. So you don't need to. I mean, in your, in your instance, where you look at some of our products, there is some overlap to the cloud versus using us. The differentiator is that local business, local support, etc, whatnot, local company local, that you can, that's a selling point. But in terms of our actual Britain bought a domain names and web hosting is on it's a parallel product to to stuff that you can buy on GCP or AWS, just for me to be reliable in tech talk time with the boys soccer pie or sausage roll. Together, we're talking about Wikileaks once and I then went on to WikiLeaks, and then I saw something it was like, where the Amazon server locations and then it was leaked information. And then I was in Google. I pressed on this link and then I'm looking at this suburb outside of Sydney, and someone had like the exact location Amazon makes me know they taste it. I broke it. No. But in terms of leaking the information about where server location is somewhere on something like Wikileaks for Amazon, is that a big deal? It is a big deal because Amazon and AWS power a lot of a lot of critical infrastructure in terms of like government, military banking. So knowing it is kind of I mean, it's it's part of the puzzle in terms of, you know, orchestrating an attack as to hypothetical. It's only part of it. There's a lot more complexities in it because there is the distribution of data. But essentially, fundamentally, if you could hit all Amazon sites as an example, Amazon, Google whatever or publish sites in one go, you will take down a big part of the internet during that is virtually impossible. You've got more luck, like going to the bottom of the ocean and cutting, cutting fibre cables to disconnect a country from the need, you got more life doing that. Then you do have hits simultaneously hitting all the sites so quick pause there is actually internet cables at the bottom of the ocean.

45:06
Yes. How do you think it works what you think Wi Fi between countries

45:11
sorry wise guys like most people wouldn't even understand that. Think about the length of those cords underneath two shocks bottom Yes.

45:20
Did I really I do

45:21
they do. They snap interested now

who laid them different companies are the original ones that were were like that we kicked the straight it was primarily led by Telstra and now you got private companies is an ASX listed companies. I know that tPj are in a couple of cables. There's a soup to blue bone a couple of cables they're laying them now. POC network is all TPG Capital sleighing Georgia

45:53
tvj Lang cables

45:55
dropping the kids off to the pool.

46:00
I bet it's a pretty interesting fact. Look, I it's it's interesting to think that I go that way and like it from a distance. Think of it like Australia to America. They go that way and literally like, what are they like 200 milliseconds to get from one end to the other with a beam of light because essentially it's all it is is a beam of light from one because it's a fibre cable. So essentially lot through a cable but the cables like the fibre cable is like I could probably get got an example here but they like super thin, but then these cables are like multiple strands of fibre and then bundled together with insulation and then weights Cinder cables actually like these big like, probably like the sea if not bigger. And there's a couple of companies that do the the Lang is only I think there's any I mean, this is out of my depth, so just probably you won't have an interview with someone who lives across the country. I would say that there he's probably got three or four companies that primarily do it in terms of actually lying the contract they've defied the fibre itself, their body They've got rolls cable and is repeaters on them and it is locator beacons so that when if there is a snap or a break or shock bites or snags and breaks they can then locate them and rejoin them essentially direct which happens which majority people that use the internet wouldn't understand that or never thought about

47:20
great documentary

47:21
100% and so when we complain about your internet specialist, and

47:26
thanks when he's gonna

47:32
wrap it up

47:34
when we talk about she didn't in Australia, like is it? Is it merit to that like we're backwards in our technology? Ilan musk talking about how we could solve Australia's internet problem like guys. I without getting too in depth into politics or anything. I think that the whole block the whole NBN debacle was great in its inception, and then it just became a political handle. And that's where it all fell apart. And there's a lot of interest in protecting a lot of Telstra assets there. And there's a lot of luck, you could, you could fall into the rabbit hole of a lot of reading of it. But it's Arizona these pretty pathetic and pretty cool. The other thing that you is really difficult for people to grasp when they talk about it is the actual landmass of Australia lucky talk, you got to Singapore, and you get gigabit speeds like it's I remember I was there a couple years ago and they were advertising startup I think it was advertising, Gigabit Ethernet for like $40 to your apartment, bigger think like Singapore's like these be go too late to lay fire and that country is pretty. I mean, grant is often the political government movement and whatnot that you got to get through. It's actually quite cost effective to lay fibre across Australia is really expensive, really, really expensive and a lot of investment. So what we should have done, I should have done is fibre everywhere. Because it's future proof. But yes, the whole internet debacle the whole sheet internet in Australia comes from the fact that it was just a political handle and the fact that people just don't understand And people don't understand the benefits of having you know x technology ever want technology and why x you know, x technology might cost three times more, it gives you 10 times to a life or 10 times more scalability in the future. A lot of people don't say that and understand that and I think that's where it became a bit of a political handle to repeat it. But it is it is in a state it's not I've never I'm fortunate enough to never have been in living or inherited a house or maybe I could have picked properties in that that have the infrastructure around but when people complain about really slow anticipated economy lucky where I kind of have make places to leave or build that have good facility, good infrastructure and have like fibre to the building or fibre to the you know in the street here, we've got this fibre here in the street that we we have that goes back it's a Telstra fibre time by Telstra. No one else can help if the guys for Telstra to use it brings me straight. So it's something that that I think I've been kind of like when I hear stories about people saying Commenting associating me so horrible I've kind of been like but it's hard for me yeah it's amazing like the the if there was no internet there's no venture IP right? There's no there's no podcast there's no podcast. Yeah, there's no distribution. Imagine the having, knowing to like going to like around with I think it's a show about these going to around with black mirror. Mirror going to like a round where the internet is just turned off. Hmm. How would we survive? majority businesses like think about all even organising of logistics for transport of food like software? like Dude, I mean, aside from the fact that your credit cards would stop working. Now flight would stop working. So you it would be a cash economy like to call the support support and the 24. Security doesn't exist anymore, which is kind of like Highlights Third, the dependence on the on the internet that we've come to kind of grow accustomed to and grow and grow used to, which is why it's so important that we're getting infrastructure obviously get policy development right. says a lot, a lot of people don't realise what's going on a lot in, in policy development, even on the internet as a whole on domain names on on legislation worldwide. And it's and it's kind of like the the internet and technology has evolved so quickly, which is always the case and the legal system and I suppose liked it to think about the cross church, what happened across straight your Facebook and the live streaming of all that, like that evolved into has evolved so quickly that policy development is so far behind and lagging so far behind, and I'm trying to think of a particular word and it escapes me at the moment. But yeah, it's so far behind and it's about now, we need to as a internet community worldwide, we need to make sure that our policy that we develop is not just a knee jerk reaction it's actually a pulsated sustainable and not just a read knee jerk reaction to flash horrible social happenings in the world well i think that this is all the complexities when you you hop on you into your hop on you when you can be it a good idea you know you point out Gmail go use your email and your internet you know think about all the stuff in the backend in the background that's going on yeah from the technical

52:26
be real head fuck if you did every time you went on to see about like the like it's coming through the fibre right like, it's pretty outrageous isn't that that'd be a real

52:43
the way you look at the Congress getting together for the Facebook conversation or like the privacy things that went down with Facebook. Yeah, they're all light 70s and heavy. They look so confused about what is even Facebook How's it all work? Like? And so it's not a deal. It's it's a different generation of an understanding because I didn't get it. And I'm 30 and, you know, grown up with the internet. And so the point around policy has been formed by people that have no understanding of what it even does or is, well, that's it, there's no simple answer. It's being formed by Ted, both technical experts and people who have interests in policy development. But there's also a lot of a lot of opinions. And there's also a lot of, you know, political elements, a political interest, but a lot of interests that people want to protect. But the scary thing to think about is, I mean, I know that that Russia and China are working on their own, you know, their own dead, they've got a lot of concerns with policy development of the internet and controlling internet and whatnot. But the scary part to think about is as a society, we use a browser, that one primarily that is a Google browser, we have several on Facebook. That's what we should be scared of. We shouldn't be scared of the the the policy, we should be scared of companies of US government not only a noun, thrown heavily around but scared, like, think about the fact that the US companies in the US will do everything to protect because they US companies, and they want the incident interest, but controlling so much data and controlling so much conversation around internet and controlling so much. That's where the concern lies. And I don't know how you split that up on a global level or how you, you diversify it or remove that kind of commercial interest. But it's a real concern. Like you don't really think about how much of the internet how much of the internet is actually not I don't pretend owned is wrong, but how much of the internet policy and how much of the development of policy needs and is actually owned by organisations and companies with commercial interests? Yeah,

54:44
how are you as a consumer? Do you go all in on being on one ecosystem? Or do you diversify

54:51
as your to pass over my tinfoil hat? I'm talking about like,

54:55
now I'm

54:57
like, you know, so I'm like, I use the This browse, I've developed my own breath.

55:04
I know I know people like that I'm not that's why I'm talking about a tinfoil hat. I'm kind of like, I mean, you've got a Google heart. God, My God, my life is so boring. Like, if you want to spy on me, Jesus could use a photo of my dog. See alcohol, food. It's not even exciting.

55:21
boring thing.

55:22
What are the people that say, I know about that, like, what are they? They're not hiding anything I just don't want to actually hiding. I think there's a genuine concern. I'm just not overly vocal. So I don't develop my I'm PR, like, I love Google. I'm so consciously aware of how, you know, potential was bad. They often have potentially bad they'll have been happening that they have. I want to give them the benefit of the doubt and say they have the potential to be bad, but they not. But under under all of it. Like, there's a lot of a lot of data like there was a report released that Google knows more about you then, you know, government security agencies. Yeah, it's Ryan Seacrest. Agencies know about their and people that Google knows more about them. Or apple or you know, or any of those companies I my last boring I don't you know, I'm, I'm conscious of it I'm not very vocal about you know, you know, secure your browser use you know, incognito don't say that I love I love ads I actually love at tracking I love I think it's, I think I'm one of those few people that I hate ads but also love it in the sense that I love I don't have an ad blocker. I love using blockers. I love my ads, and I like my ads because they're normally targeted towards me. And that's what i like i like targeted advertising. I like seeing all these actually really interesting rather than saying, you know, and that's the difference between using something like watching a video on YouTube or full disclosure, I have YouTube premium. So I think

56:42
I'm very similar. I don't use a ad blocker, but I have YouTube premium and that pre rolls the most annoying I reckon that

56:50
I find so this is the thing I find like if I'm watching template as an example, the pre rolls so boring, just generic shit. Whereas if I watch a YouTube pre roll ad it's my Because its premium but if I was to watch it on my profile, it's targeted towards me. Well, that's that's targeted, they're actually quite engaging quite interesting. So I'm probably different in the sense that I'm not a general consumer that I like advertising. So that's probably my opinions a little bit swayed in that I don't really I'm not really overly worried about it. I'm more worried about control of style, I would say my market say will be more about state control is in government control, or foreign state bodies with with internet control their policy development or their their influence and more about companies and their influence from a commercial perspective.

57:33
So I'm not the only But yeah, I love my

57:35
does everything having built a business now having having

57:44
from an employee put, like, you've got so many employees and I guess that sort of vision of like, sticking it to the man or like doing it better? What sort of empathy Have you created or what have What do you think about when looking back that you like, oh, man, Really undervalued this thing and this is actually way harder to do. I would say, originally we we we did originally delve into like an outsourced support model. And now we then undid it and I undervalued in retrospect and evaluate the Australian support. I really did. And now it's so valuable. And I just just out with no transport, but I just dealt with a technical support experience with a new laptop or I bought and it was woeful, I could really I was thought really disappointed. And it and it is said at the very south conversation, it's not teenager, you don't know until you need it.

58:41
Yeah, that's the probably the exactly that kind of looking for like, it's that what I what I look back now is I want to how do we even even try to go to here to, you know, part of India or parts of Manila or parts of, you know, to do or Philippines to do support like, why do we even try that? Why do we waste a year and a half, two years at all. Rather than doing what we did after the fact and building an Australian team and when we did that two days prior boss for this lesson you have to learn like you would never ever come to that point yeah it's learning how to release the release and it's it goes back to like the prince although I say I learned stuff every day. I learned things every day my before we let you go

59:22
to question a we know you need to be left lined up there's a there's a great the bacon seasoning stuff is like plant based or whatever, but I just feel like No, but I think that like you need something

59:36
you need wholesome green vegetable do I

59:39
like if you actually like the flavour then it's good. You cool with it?

59:44
That's it. That was

59:47
cool with your

59:50
vegetables,

59:51
like the bacon season? Yeah. And it's like, it's like, Nickelback. It

59:58
took two questions. domains, you guys sell them, we sell them, who owns? Like, who owns it, like how's that work domains and never owned by you never own the domain, you own a couple. What do you do?

1:00:16
You lease the rights to use it theoretically.

1:00:20
They're not it's basically think of it like a giant database of names. Essentially, it's not known by anybody. It's a lease agreement between you and the, I would say the authority body that runs not even the registered providers and not even the technical services provider who actually provide the technical, you know, registry database and whatnot that goes involved with that. But the actual policy like whoever, like for example, you know, you come to a document you don't let that I you.gov w.id.au.

1:00:51
Au thing that direct registration that is controversial, right,

1:00:54
it's, it's, it's Yeah, it's hard to fish. I'm gonna be high. You're not old. Madam Director, I'm also a registrar. So I have conflicting opinions I primarily think to generalise it. Obviously equation to generalise it I think it's needed I think we need to evolve we are like one of two established cctld is country code God is like TV

1:01:18
which is an island which is on yeah

1:01:21
off the top my head where is it on but we are one of the one there's only like two that are left on one of them that aren't directly registration or directly adopt so you can get you in a coma you really yeah. It's needed from for both in evolution and stimulation and i think i shorted enjoys better yeah having a shorter name but it's also if you want to really boil yourself guy raised a lot of the policy around what it's meant to stand for I think is important because it's actually at the moment to get a call my you are in it I you need to be a business have an IBM and ice and all right mark and there's a lot of eligibility there with DOD I you the current proposed policy around it around the direct registration is that you have to just have an Australian presence that is important, beckoning Australians online and about giving you the strains, I suppose a piece of real estate to stake their claim for their digital real estate to represent that Australian. That's important because at the moment, the only way to do it is a dot i All right, Jesus Christ, don't buy this is why i.id.ru domain, which is confusing, you didn't know what it is known as. Whereas if you have a daughter you and you create a fight, if Donahue was was, in terms of a policy standpoint was meant to be locked for lock for call Marinette eligibility, I'd be like, it's not gonna be worth it. But considering it's being developed to be a place where you just have to have an Australian presence, meaning you can get with that maybe in as long as you got to stop. What Australian presence means is a legal document that that describes, it's all in development, go to his website. If you're really bored and read the policy framework and submit suggestions and engagement. This is about community and stakeholder engagement. That is important about getting Australians alive and giving them a place because at the moment strains you want Online, we'll go and pick a combo, gotta pick a.co, we'll go pick a.of A TLD. If I can't get come at you because I don't have an IBM.

1:03:05
And so when you're on a board,

1:03:07
so who gets the cash? Who gets the cash for.com today, they're gonna send it to you. May we pay you guys either we pay the registry privada, which is the technical services provider in indoor space. And the net split, there is a fee that goes they split the fee, they take a fee for the technical operations. And then part of it goes to ada the.edu domain administrator, which is a non for profit. Although that's the board that I'm on. I'm a director of that board. They govern.eu policy. They complex, isn't it very complex. They do compliance for W they're protected.eu. And they represent they're not a government their government in going to be as a director put my correct phrasing head on, their government endorsed. I think I've been endorsed by it, they got a letter of endorsement essentially from the government that they can operate the IU TLD for Australia. So the the policy development but he said Part of it goes to them for policy development for marketing for registrar's on the back end so that we we can market to you and convince the trains to go and buy a new domain or comment as I say, your talk everything, you know, you so comment, you know you and then part of it goes to policy development part of it goes to stakeholder engagement, etc. And then the registry is a commercial service could service provider that type of money and obviously, they have to have a team of I think there's 25 in in Melbourne, as well as overseas or an overseas company, their US company that now has the tender and they have us operations as well, but that goes to them. They support the strain the strains and their business. We primarily wait registrar's, do primarily with the Australian team, which is one of the fundamentals about you know, as part of it, which we tend to tend to like two years ago, and that's what I want it to be. So yeah, that's where the money fundamentally goes. And then that that thing goes to the upkeep of you want to talk Dana's gets an advocate of the root nameservers so that the fact that you talk www dot dot com. And I mean, the point where it trends This is before it connects to the hosting provider to give you the content. That's what many simplistically by that registry services. So keeping all that up is that day job so you're you're you're paying for that that that's what you're paying for.

1:05:22
Did you have to learn to be a board director like what because I guess you have a you have to communicate the board message I feel or I

1:05:31
feel like I'm like the I think I am the youngest in the band. I have know that we have we have a really strong Board of really great directors, directors with a lot of experience in in professional directorship and corporate governance and stuff. And I'm kind of like rocking a T shirt and jeans. I like no idea that this whole I mean, as I said it, saw the conversation what with what we're doing, and what I do day to day, is pretty much what I do, in the sense that it's the whole governance thing I just don't have the words to say this is transparency this is you know accountability like we're saying be faithful act faithfully be true and you know be honest and open that is all transparency I just don't like what transparency so yeah I feel it I coming into that that's that was I was on the board I think November was at first October was a fastball means it's still fairly fresh as first thing that ever in the corporate sense that I've done like that. Yeah, I to learn. Yeah, I've got a good boy and I've got a really supportive directors around me that we're the son. I'm the only one that comes with direct Well, I don't want to show private the direct read just direct current experience in the industry. So rhymers not on the board right. One last question. Go for

1:06:45
it as your other question. On the Donna you think very quickly on that because it's it's an interesting one. Because, from my perspective, or when I think about like, Jada year requires businesses to have two more domain like has have an extra domain. So if you've got big media company com, July you then you would want to get big media company, don't I you? And so I think like, and that's been like the fruit because it was it was very, like a contentious issue because there was one side which was saying, Hi, it's gonna cost more face Yeah, you're gonna have to do different defensive registrations. But it also makes sense from a venture IP point of view that you want like having another product to sell like it's another product. It's,

1:07:34
it's from a standpoint of commercial standpoint, it is another product, it's about stimulating the economy, people can get a domain. But in other cases where cctld direct registrations going ahead, I know that there's a lot of talk about defensive registration, but it's actually probably like at 20% 10%. Like it's actually not as big an issue well in in past cases. I think.ns. ed is an example I might be wrong at the dot n zero.uk. That they were very concerned about the defensive registration in the directory jar. But primarily the strings that exist in the directory, Joe, at the same is that the existing Cohen? Did they different? And that's what i think i think there is definitely concern with the with the defensive registration argument. But I also think in the same vein, it's if you get the policy right, and you get the eligibility right, and you get the, you know, the, I'm trying to think of the actual word, the allocation, right for people with existing Right, so the existing comma, you know, you hold us to be able to claim their stake first. So you get that, all right, I don't think you're gonna see a lot of defensive registering, and there's no need. Fundamentally, it's meant to be the same way you wouldn't defend. You might have a media domain, but the same way you don't not everyone, like everyone thought neutrality is just a cash grant, which is like the.media.com we've got

1:08:48
like the daily talk show.com and we've got the daily talk dot show, and the daily talk show.com au but I love buying domain name.

1:08:58
Is it good for SEO?

1:08:59
Well, yeah. Media background. I think

1:09:03
that's like the interesting thing in regards like domain names, which is like, why do you need to have a top level? domain? I think it's changed a lot. I think Google's changed their like ranking algorithm, the actual domain name has become less important. It's more about content and content and how you deliver it. And I think mobile and accessibility is more important than what string you use. Having said that, though, everyone was concerned with Nutella is going but it's going to be a defensive registration game. But you know, you haven't gone out and got dot media, dot, you know, every single string we haven't

1:09:35
nearly hit Like, I am probably an education case where I have in regards to thinking about ideas. Yeah,

1:09:46
go to. My final question is, do you have any seriously great domains that you on? Personally, not I use, because I'm the latter because I'm a registrar. I can I can I can do my own personal one. What about a.com How's it going a powerful.com that you aren't you've never bought one Oh, not a power I, I think I've got really, really cool one. Really cool. What's a cool one that you go? Tell us.

1:10:13
I'm trying to think if we could put my portfolio

1:10:19
Can you have 50 about assign

1:10:21
the analogue?

1:10:22
Can you because is anyone making any cash off selling domains these days? from selling? Yeah, aftermarket, still yes from monetizing. So having them advert like having a your, you know, your racing domains you have in your portfolio, monetizing them and putting up advertising and that, you know, yeah, but from selling them, there's still money to be made in aftermarket sales. Like, you know, if you got a string that you want, I don't, I have a very, like i'm not i'm very anti domain. We have sitting sitting there, dying, Hawking domain, aftermarket sales, I hated it like I i would i would be pro a I think it would need a lot more development and work but I will be probably use case that you don't if you don't use it you lose right now like no that's a bad thing because I like you want people to register them and keep them but then in terms of like as a internet community and actually giving people and going out now I have to register I want to register Victor Victor cafe we can present cafe but I can't have to register that cafe on Victor Chrism company you that is a study sheet, like you said is you know, yeah, and then for that, for that to go if that domain is not actively news and they go but you're salty for 10 grand. I'm kinda like, you can't use it.

1:11:41
Ryan podcast ranker I probably shouldn't have got

1:11:45
should offer to that.

1:11:47
I did. I did once I Jim wouldn't made me pay 200 bucks to cancel when they said they wouldn't. And so I got there.com and did the story but do it. Yeah, did you did it Hey boy, it works probably it's probably it's probably

1:12:05
you put a story up but then they bought off you in

1:12:07
it. Yeah. Yeah so they said All I wanted was my 200 bucks back and so they did that but I realised that it's I took took all the website stuff down I don't have any more. But uh yeah that was

1:12:23
I want to say your fault your portfolio before we go just to you know

1:12:29
just a domain name trading

1:12:32
trading we should do

1:12:36
begin the party. She looks tired Yeah, trading Well, I reckon I would have something that you would want. Well

1:12:45
thank you so much for your talk like the guys have a chat and I love talking and I appreciate you guys coming all this way. I mean, you

1:12:57
and also like the like such a cool office. Thank you and like, I'm sure that you guys are going to be on those like great place to work like Is that a thing that you try and we

1:13:06
do we want we want to we want a great poker player of choice amazing Employer of Choice Award, which is fantastic. Yeah, and we had a piece in the Herald Sun made it the saddest part about the entire thing is that I was the only one who could read the article because I realised I had a

1:13:31
nice corpse.

1:13:36
So one person got to read it. So we had that and it's but it's not it's not just about that. It's not it's literally genuinely bad. And I say it it's cliche, but it's about I can't answer every support ticket. I I'm Rusty and can't read the volume. I can't do

1:13:49
the best way that I can just from 97 just trying to update.

1:13:55
The best way that I can make sure that that customers, my customers, our customers are taken care of is to take care of the people who are taking care of the customers. Yeah, that's my team. That's where the principal comes from. Plus, it's not completely altruistic. I hate having to bring pack lunches and I want to be in a place where I love and actually feel comfortable and want to spend time. And I build it not just for me, but above everyone else in the hope that we foster that and foster that belief in that force. That passion, so thank you.

1:14:26
And I'm gonna go on the swing. Yeah. Which will swing

1:14:33
by eight at the 30 seconds on the swing. Angela, thanks so much. Thank you. We should definitely get you I feel like this is a star

1:14:42
on a little office. Yeah, exactly.

1:14:45
Like any other questions.

1:14:52
I'm thinking a T shirt with a cable and a shock body and it saying Ouch, my internet good.

1:15:02
If you enjoyed the show, leave us a review on Apple podcasts otherwise say tomorrow guys hey guys