#586 – Brent Valle On Loving Unconditionally/
- January 23, 2020
Brent Valle is a speaker and entrepreneur known for starting award-winning technology company NGage and The Future Phase.
Brent started NGage Technology with his close friend Jarrod Bloomfield, growing it to a $27 million dollar business. After suffering a snowboarding incident in New Zealand, Brent sold NGage and started The Future Phase, which provides adrenaline-packed Business adventure workshops that help provide momentum for people to take their life to the next level.
On today’s episode of The Daily Talk Show, we discuss:
– Bells Beach Surf Wax & Urban Surf
– Brent’s first business
– Relationships and growing in different directions
– Narratives and stories
– Loving unconditionally
– Brent’s relationship with money and chasing the cash
– The importance of a reason for being
Brent on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/brentbreaksbread/
The Future Phase: https://thefuturephase.com.au/
Email us: firstname.lastname@example.org
Send us mail: PO BOX 400, Abbotsford VIC 3067
The Daily Talk Show is an Australian talk show and daily podcast by Tommy Jackett and Josh Janssen. Tommy and Josh chat about life, creativity, business, and relationships — big questions and banter. Regularly visited by guests and gronks! If you watch the show or listen to the podcast, you’re part of the Gronk Squad.
This podcast is produced by BIG MEDIA COMPANY. Find out more at https://bigmediacompany.com/
Talk Show Episode 586. We got Brent
Valley in the building. Welcome, Brian. Thank you.
It's smelling good night. This is really good. You've brought your surf wax I have. How do you get to a point of creating your own surf wax?
It's an interesting story. I wasn't the original creator of it. However, I was over at a basketball guy, sorry, baseball game back in 2007. And watching the San Francisco Giants play they were losing at the time and I like tagging on a Facebook post. And I said business for sale and I had Bell surf wax and so I immediately sent a direct message to the guy who owned it at the time Facebook marketplace,
like is it just
Gumtree? Look, there's businesses si si brothers 150. I saw that for sale in Bayside.
So you just got you just Damn. And so I just sent
him a demo guy, how much you want? Yeah. And he literally listed all the kind of assets that were there. And he said 10 grand. I said I'll give you I mean, he said okay, and so Settle says me an invoice for 20% I sent it to him readily on the spot just after he got home from the game. I thought
you're gonna rock up and do what you do with Gumtree only takes seven
seven what's what assets? Do they have? shitty website? Yeah. What else they have that trademark on the name bro I had to change it a few times just to get Bella's Beatrice right on there because I thought that was a really really you know from an intellectual property piece something that was really appealing to us to say pure performance instead but I thought the name bells beta Australia was something that was going to add a lot of value to it
iconic night and if you're not you can't see if you haven't watched the episode. This is a bell so it's in the shape of I remember when you first boys you told me we caught up you show me and you said the mould as well was what they'd had. Yeah, they'd created so that was another asset
another remotes that a rice cooker. Come on camera camera Grace cuca and there was a massive chunk of wax so when I got home from a trip was in October I went down to home went to a nice place and talk to these guys have some talk a good I he's I'm saying him. He's one of his, one of his sons has actually gone on to play with the s&m football club. I think it's Brian. So um, yeah, I don't know what his son's name is Anyway, I'm not gonna do it. Again, I might be here and you guys are gonna mind how I come out come out. So I come in the garage so he throws out the road on the garage. He goes, Okay, this is what I do. And so this is big chunk of wax sitting there. And then this rice cooker. Anyway, so he like cuts off a bit of the wax turns a rice cooker off tracks it in me starts melting it down to the right temperature and
I'm just giving you a demo.
Like I'm not a hands on girl. I don't have to try it or anything like that. Anyway, so melts down the right temperature and you guys saw it. Oh, now I've got my little and he's got a little thermometer. He puts it in there and once it gets the right temperature he goes all right right now what do I do, I pour it into the moulds and then I wait about 20 minutes it's about the right time to have a stubby so he has a drink and I'm just waiting and chatting away to him and then you guys are all we're about right now. Then you pop them pop the two bells out of the mouths and then he got these plastic sandwich bags. Chop the corners off he met a heat gun and he like hates her up shrink it up he goes there's a finished product and I'm like fuck me.
What about it like 10 grand was
that was it a grand I'm like I'm gonna be spending a lot of time out in the garage and that's not my thing
that's how it started I'm surprised it wasn't one before like bills what is that 50 something years of that bills beach repeal pro it's huge like some of the surface around the world go there so it makes sense that someone would have started the bells wax
is that very light I don't know if like turning a wax into the shape of a bell. It probably seems obvious now that we're looking at it but like there was I guess some IP mad is anyone else trying to
do it now about the trial. So we're going to trademark protection around the shape of a bell. So flax and then we've also got protection in terms of IP around the actual logo itself. Sign bells, badges, Riah Bell surf wax on it, so I had to tighten it up a little bit when I got home.
Somebody I mean we have looked into the trademark thing. We don't have shape we don't have the we couldn't get it
well the daily talk show was too generic to generic Yeah, yeah.
What's what do you have to do to keep the trademark of something like this?
Yeah, so you have to register you go into ip australia.com that are you and it's really complicated process and I've got no real legal background around the stop of stuff from the kind of guy just does and learns along the way. And yeah, I kind of figured it out and at the same time, I was like, Well, what are we gonna do about these wax we've got one blend on a roll it out and scale it out globally, and I want to bring on Team riders all over the world and so then at that point was around finding some First of all, was like finding a provider whacks me manufacturer to partner up we so found a guy
out of the garage somewhere, correct.
He's not he's like the Colonel Sanders of Kentucky Fried Chicken. He's got a secret recipe. And so yeah, like had him in Australia. And we said, let's do it. And he said, Okay, and then we just we had six planes, originally fly planes, and then we came up with the super sticky Pro. For our team riders. Then I just started sending product to different kids. I sort of said in 16 on Instagram all over the world. And then on Instagram I started getting all these requests from grommets up and coming grommets who want to be pro surfers. What's a grommet? gramma is someone who said like I
love his Shockers, Greg Jessica
went surfing once Phillip Island I think it was for you 10 camp Maggie right?
How was that experience? Well,
oh, so I was more overwhelmed with having to get into a wetsuit. I was a fat kid. And so it was a bit uh but now it's like, I wanted to get into surfing and then went to Queensland when I was a chain. And the day before we had the surf lesson, I was like, I'm gonna go to cold bodyboarding on so body surfing, snowboard, yeah. And nearly drowned had to get like saved by a couple of life counts. I was like, I couldn't swim. But the problem what I didn't say like they said you to not go Any further than waist deep or the
difference between swimming in a pool and the ocean yeah and
so I think there was a rip or some shit whatever it was the wife kept hitting me and the annoying thing is I was fucking screaming at and like the salt was getting into like my voice I could I couldn't speak and I kept getting slammed by waves and when I finally got saved one life God came they board went like flying with the with the wife another life God came and then when I finally got onto the beach was one of those things where it's like they brought me in and like okay you can get up now my grabbing onto the board and it turns out like I was in about this much water
actually it's a real metaphor for life that story.
Say I didn't know I thought you're waving fight. Why did you come up? What do you what do you want from me?
Well, I mean, it's hard studying this in the actual see when it's rough. Now there's the the wife for the what's it called
the urban surf Yeah, Marina. I mean,
I've seen this to people on my Instagram Facebook feeds, it's you and Luke Wallace frequenting that place how many times you've been since it's open
I've been out there three times already
playing golf membership type of thing you
can get a monthly membership so they got the gold and then they've got the diamond I believe it is and it's a really good setup over there. I was fortunate enough in 2018 to go over the US and surfing Kelly slide his wife Paul, which is right. Yeah. Which was which, which was a really good experience and was the guy there. He wasn't there. Sorry, his locker down all his stuff. And he's in these locker and I left some wax in there for him. That's his nickname, or
the order to go.
Yeah, the greatest of all the
greatest of all time. Good. Okay. Yeah. Is that his nickname?
I think I think people call him the goat.
Yeah, he's quite he's probably one of the best athletes I believe across all sports whenever saying, you know, the Tiger Woods, Michael Jordan. I mean, he doesn't get the credit because things aren't really that mainstream sport. But how many world titles these one I was set at 12 or 13 each one of these It's still surfing, he's still surfing and how old is he? 46 or 47? What makes
a good surfer? What do you what are the qualities of a surfer? I think
you know there's performance lot of tricks and they're able to do style flow you know there's lots of different variables and it's one of those sports is really subjective you know tennis we all know the rules of tennis right and we know beforehand we know down the line, but surfing got so many variables and so many uncertainties. A lot of it subjective even even in the competition, the world surf league competition, the way they judge it, like how can you interpret what a great performance is because there's different types manoeuvres is aerials is like Ryan is human bias, hundred percent, so it's like movie movie reviewers now at the individual level, rather than sort of the mass social scorecard that's put out like on this tomorrow, what are they called, like rotten tomatoes, you get a better sense of a movie based on the fan base or people who are interested versus 100 gronk
with the stars. You think there's a great performance and then they'll like the lift was wrong. I mean, I think they're dancing with the stars. The
Richard Wilkinsons on actually I That's right, we had Dickie Wilkins on the show.
I know you went up to Sydney.
Yeah, that was fun. Yeah. Do you think that people don't so with that surfing barrier of being so subjective, do you think it's harder for people to get amongst it? You say you watch tennis. I can be at gronk with hardly any information but I know a fault I know that so I can get behind it and yell at the TV screen
is the only rules and clean way of winning points.
Yes. So you can get right into it. You can be a bit of a nodal pretty quickly. With the the surfing stuff being subjective, I guess it makes a little bit harder as a viewer.
Yeah. And I think you know, it's a good point. And it's, you know, when you start out as surfers, you didn't have that amazing experience where you're shredding
that's good. But it's free surfers, and it's competition surfers and we'll start off as free surface, right? You do it for the love and the joy of not doing it for the love and the joy of it. And then you know, you kind of like it goes for this fly when you get more experience and there's, you know, there's no wives that are ever the same. And there's always something to learn. And it's always changing. And
you know, not just what about the wife pulled in, if you like, I mean, the machine now and this is the sixth wave and this goes at this length bike is a little bit more predictable.
Yeah, it is a lot more predictable. So that this morning and you know, there's like 18 people jump in the water on each side of the left and there's a right so why breaking from left to right, one breaking from right to left and your pedal out to get them. It's like a queue system where when you go in the ocean, there ain't no queues. It's nearly like war, you know? No, not really, but we all compete.
Yeah, well, I tried. I don't I tell him I rain locals
Yeah, they've sorted it. I wonder if that will happen because I've sorted it because it's like you wait and literally one goes, next one's up, one goes next.
And that's this whole arc. And it's the status of the diamond. I'm a fucking diamond. It's like when you fly, you know, if you get frequent flying, you end up with status. As soon as you get status, when they start calling status and you see people getting in the way that doesn't have stairs. So you like fucking get out of
the East and for a while, there's the line that you have to have more than one person more than two people in the car. Oh, yeah, you have to have two biblica. And yet, you get right hand line. And I'm automatically just always looking for the with more one person and you learn to back Yeah, yeah. Anyway,
and so and so 18 people, you're taking their their own turn
where you're the pedal out together and it's like a key like when I was I had a nice to walk in a centerlink aligner for the paycheck.
That's so funny. I saw you write that the other way that Johnny Howard surfed is that name Break it down.
Well Johnny, Johnny Howard was the Prime Minister at the time how's the young so I think he was
brace a rock after soundlink every two weeks with me form and walk up to the desk and I had hair back then it was little long. I was probably Stein most the time when I walked in there and I used to get like $160 every fortnight and that went to go to the park. He's been waiting hanging out. My mind's literally hidden. Sorry, Johnny Howard surf to him.
Go surfing. I love that. It's not the classic hippie because I love that you've combined sort of hippie culture with the pokies
always feels like he's gonna be lucky. He's going to be lucky. Yeah.
Any any tips on winning at the window? Like, was it a serious gambling problem? You ended up having
a serious one time but yeah.
Now when you're on the roulette night, that's interesting.
It's it's gonna change. It's gonna change the face of surfing just in terms of people who Who going to be able to get upskilled so quickly? Yeah, in comparison to when you had to drive down, hope that there will swell You didn't even know you drive an hour and a half. Hopefully see peak on the top of the, you know, water out at Philip Island when you come into point. laio It's like
dealing with segwayed
dealing with Yeah, shocks a Wade. I hope they make it an Olympic sport. I mean, the Olympics is a business and so they're just it's
Yeah, so they have So, okay, yeah. I can have a letter or something, TJ,
need 20 more. So we're gonna incorporate why pulling the technology because Japan Japan really has wives tiny wise, but they're going to serve it in pretty, hopefully good wise, but uh, probably one to two foot and crap. So we won't say the best of the sport. Yeah, well, it's actually going to be in the ocean.
Yeah. Oh, wow. So yeah, it could be hopefully it's not flat. This
series but in terms of changing the face of surfing and from my personal experience in ISIS, check magic segwayed every day in terms of what the winds doing, what's the swell? Don't wait. It's gonna be good. I'm getting on urban services search website and looking at what time slots are available instead we're going to get back to you know surfing more in the ocean, but I guess it's a novelty at the moment. It's super fun and you go down their demise. You know, you get 15 miles in an hour and everyone's gonna be hooting and
bees and dinner. Yeah, except for like 10pm
somebody that's good. 10pm so I like rollerblading
when you go to the next is funny Yeah. rollerblading I do the speed round so it's like a speed round if you like for people who rollerblade fast at a roller rink yet. rollerblading it back to the roller rink Yes Yeah. Did they have a be a waves section like a speed round where
the epic sir is based mode base mode Really? Yeah. So there's like advanced intermediate and beginner and advanced so I've got lots of different levels I can turn the waves up and down it I'm doing a plug for these guys is a great Andy Russell I met out there is the founder and executive lovely guy. Oh, awesome guy and heaps of good vibes but yeah, they got like lots of different settings. So in advanced mode they got this one called beast mode and they can crank it right up and like make it super super hollow and big and heavy and create these big tubes The thing is I that I don't think I do it for the everyday Joe Blow who goes off the street because it's concrete bottom. And when you turn when you turn it off you go super shallow. I've heard and yeah, it's concrete bottoms. I had a bit of carnage the other night. I haven't haven't turned it up. I'd love to surface NBC.
How do you get it? You just have you can't? It's like,
yeah, they've done it for a few of the pros who have gone there. Yeah.
The premium its first class
Friday, you might be able to upgrade one day rent if you keep going.
So you so you've bought a business, you've sold your business. You had a what? What was the business before because when I first met you, you'd sold the business model creating video content, but I didn't quite get what your business was.
Yeah. So I were in I was in the IT industry, which I You know, after I provided for the journey, how it served me when I was nine. I got my first job, I was nine years old, my mom had no money and she said, You gotta get a job to, you know, help support her and pay the bills. And so I looked in the mirror and sanded, which was a local rag at the time, and I go to which you went into an interview, and it was an IT computer place in Hampton, and he wasn't, it was not nine, one enough in 1995 or 96, I would have been 96 and walked in and the guy who owned the building or the business, he was a surfer as well. And so I was a surfer, and straightaway we clicked it off he goes, Yeah, I'll give you a job. I later found out he actually started paddling leg Rob's funnily enough, which is like a classic story in itself. And so yeah, I got into that when I was there. And then 20 years later, 15 years later, I made a made after lots of different stories, and I had another business member my tracking two grand age in 2011 and build up this business called engaged Technology Group. And our fifth financial year of two grand five years earlier will turn over 27 million bucks in revenue, like a shitload of money and what was it consultancy was hardware. Yeah, hardware, software services and resource and I'm not an IT guy. I mean, I love what technology can do in terms of enabling our lives. You know, I think it's fantastic. But yeah, and like, got to the end of their fifth financial year. I was like, Huh, I went over to New Zealand went snowboarding, suffered an accident, I concussion, Whitechapel going I gotta do something different with them. I was literally just like that. And I came back and spoke to my business partner, Jared at the time. I said, I'm mad, I gotta get out and he's gone. Well, why don't we go for two more years ago? Okay, and just to get more recurring revenue in our business. Two weeks later, we had a publicly listed company approached and say, Hey, guys, you want to sell your business?
I was like, Fuck you. Hey, let's do a serendipitous.
Yeah, it was it was it was strange. It was approaching my 40th birthday. So I had all these change going on. And yeah, six months later I decided I was going to sell it to us before and I'm gonna bought off was four and a half million, six months lot of negotiation and probably asked taking your eyes off the prize that business in itself, you start getting ideas and get distracted. He's going happened is not going to happen and we end up signing for two and a half mil which was really cool like five years early two grand yeah and then yeah just did my life went into these massive transition three transitions or bring me to these points that I and been a lot of change I used to like when I first left the businesses I 30 people around me had a big team was a lots of money and you know, it was funny local throwing these parties for our clients and we could throw a pretty good party. And yeah, and we delivered heaps of value but just yet had to change so we change it and yeah, and then I bounce off to end up separating from ex wife. We went through a divorce and quite then I had no I want to reminisce a lot I had no money I had no time I was going to lock I remember vividly, you know, I went down the coast and Jane jaql got a place down there and I remember lucky in the foetal position on the floor like crawling for about an hour What the fuck happened when Bill off. He didn't know what I was going to do and I really had to strip everything back and start again and you know not start again in terms of now. So Some assets and that type of thing but who the fuck was I and that was something that was like you know 40 years of conditioning my whole life through parents through you know society through those around me thinking about success means chase money. Okay I got that and I still feel shithouse inside there's got to be something different so that was a you know probably my rock bottom and then just work my way back from there and end up taking any depressants for about four I went to the doctor said I'm no I'm no good. You got me any any depressants started taking those. Amber the first day I had them I took what took one and nine I've gone surfing that day my mate I told them out about and he asked me goes has a field catcher wife any print any depressants and I got done. I was kind of like we It was like I didn't get the adrenaline rush of that. That emotional buzz that I would normally in. had some time to reflect one, day one, day two, day three, day four and I just felt like really sick in the stomach and and I thought is not for me are thrown in the bin went in the bathroom, they'll end up looking at myself in the mirror and go you got your Self in this situation you got to get yourself out of and I just took full hundred percent ownership for everything in my life. And that was the starting point for probably was a November in 2009 2008 and then August last year I just felt better and happy and alive again it was
strange. I mean yeah it seems we anti I've heard that happening on anti depressants Are you actually thinking you feeling numb to the whole thing anyway? Yes Like I was numb
a nun me and numb the feelings I had. Yeah, so numb the pain and numbed the emotions that I felt. And I thought that's not for me because I'm a highly passionate, energetic dude. And I was changing who I was at the core I can.
What's, what's the retro on, if you're looking at is like a massive deep in your life. What's the view on that state that people do? It's I mean, it's all unique to the individual but looking at that state of a slump or a low point or an rebuilding phase. What's this retrospective look now on how you dealt with it and how new it or was it Look, I think the
point that I got to wasn't like all of a sudden I felt that way. I think it was a build up of many years and, and not the best relationship and then working in industry, new industry where I was working super hard. I mean to to build a business that quickly takes a lot of work. And I was smashing the hours that are economic doing it, I was awake. Where does the work look like? lots of emails, lots of meetings, you know, like, there's a lot looking like payroll, purchasing staff, you know, I like doing lots of sales calls. I'm in the payroll. Once we got to that point, it was kind of like the payroll was like 250 k a month. And there were months where we weren't making that much profit we'd have a month would make hundred 225 k profit. And it's like, holy shit if we had like three or four months like I got to wipe us out and be out of the game and that that was probably one of the things that really promoted us to get to, let's sell an hour on up and get out. But to go back to your question, Tommy, I think it was a build up of things over a long period of time. And then just like rock bottom, and there's like, okay, like the lag period, you know, if you go to the gym, you start trading on a second, fix that training, start training and don't get the results right away. But over time, like I'm, and I think where I was in that rock bottom position was a lag period of, you know, all the hard work some of the bad decisions I made.
You weren't listening to yourself, and you knew that you felt shift. So you're saying didn't like, all of a sudden, come out of nowhere? You were over the time building up to that, obviously, feeling stressed about work or all these things. And so it compounds Yeah, yeah. And you're not sort of really taking notice of it.
Yeah, and numbing it, you know, partying and alcohol and drugs and buying stuff. And it's like getting this good feeling. But it's just sugar rises sugar, and it wears off real quick. And then you have the low point. So I was like that. So all through the materialistic stuff I was accumulating But then I couldn't accumulate anymore. It was locked. Yeah, look like i. Now what do I do the feeling I got inside, he's not the same as what it is now or it's completely different way I have less. I've been living out of a renovated garage at my mom's place for the past 12 months. And I've never been happier and it's but it's taken the last six months to get to that turning point to do the work. You know, what do I contribute as my diet? Who am I hanging out with? I barely drink anymore. So I have lots of different things that I'm changing. I'll just put my hand up and change them and then also working on businesses that I'm passionate about. So this morning, I was doing product testing in a whiteboard for Bell surf wax, scribe. So yes, people laugh like you never work never seem to be working alarm work. And this is what I don't know. It's just completely different.
Will you worry about making changes that would drastically going to change your life when you're in a depressed state.
Yeah, it's Good question. So to step out and you know, I like labour relationship that I knew probably wasn't good for me wasn't good for my ex wasn't good for the kids to step out into that. And to you know that step off a cliff really very uncomfortable, very uncertain. And, you know, so many people stay in relationships for a number for raisins and a lot. I can't stand this because when do you know when you need to do the work? When is it worth staying?
Well, when is it like putting in the work and being on the other side and being stronger versus saying, actually,
there's nothing productive? A good is a good way you need two people who committed 100% and if two people are not committed 100% then it's never gonna work. And then I think we're going to
compromise. Was that a conversation that had you come to the realisation that hey, like, this isn't going to work? Or did you find that it happened in stages where you gave all those other? Yeah,
good. Good question. challenging question actually, I'll be as honest as possible.
You know, I think I think men, you know, my ex did a great job to stay together for as long as we did, I think a determination to stay together for that long was amazing. And I take my hat off to her and also myself for committing for that long. At the end of the day, you know, the people that we were when we met when we were 25, completely different to the payware 40, you know, early 40s completely different. And so lots of change and growth a different different times. And, you know, very inconvenient, very incompatible.
I mean, if you're looking at a business and you grow with the business, you know, the vision of it, if you're relating that sort of approach to relationship where you say after 20 years the difference Yeah, have you you veering off the vision together? Or it just naturally happens that it's evolving to some sort of different vision for the both of you? Yeah,
it's a good question. So at the age of 25, I remember meeting Michelle and I thought, this chicks the best and why we had the same we wanted the same things at that point in time. You don't Label young with DOM and lock just live in life and we are so always used to say to each other living on love and good Simon you got so many awesome memories were there and you know like as the journey goes on it was like okay, we want we want the same thing and then I think with the business you know I invested a lot in my personal development when I was two in 2008 or 2009 rj deployment coaching and studied NLP and did some other stuff and really changed me yet I still had a lot of people around me who probably weren't looking to now they're enjoying life and not happy with their life and it's fantastic what they died I ga from that perspective, people need to do what makes them happy, but I started going down a journey and then I didn't have the confidence probably will sell Blackwater now. And so then when I engage Technology Group, building that business and selling it, I got a lot of confidence in design. Well we set out to achieve something we did it. Okay, what else you gonna gotta say that which I've been doing, I think that was really, really great reference point. Moving forward. And so I just kept on working on myself and going in a certain direction of following my heart and following my passion. I reckon. At that point in time, the business had taken me one direction, as it does and then probably max Michelle was doing her thing and just we'll just turn fire apart, come back together.
I mean, the complication with kids
making a choice, because it's not just you anymore. What's that process like, as a dad,
I don't want to go into too much detail, but to sit down and have to tell them have a family conversation and tell them the heartbreaking most heartbreaking thing I reckon I've ever had to do in my entire life. Yet, what's more, what's more heartbreaking would have been staying together for another 20 years. I love me punk rock music and there's a band called raise for an home in the side of the song I can't record correctly says we can't be happy living together. Dying together is not going to help fix the problem. And I think it's a really good analogy for a very punk rock as well. Yeah, a lot of punk rock. So um, but yeah, Lock some of that up. And so
yeah. So when you decide to sort of jump off that cliff and take the I guess there's a lot of risk involved in that and sort of that sort of change. Yeah. What was the biggest surprise through that whole experience? Hmm.
You find out who your friends are. I think you know, it's
I reckon that was the most surprising thing at the time on that piece within here, but for probably I reckon 12 months I wasn't
you get paranoid you get like unsafe like you do something so extreme in your life. I guess. I would feel like I'd be analysing everyone's okay. This is like you, you're meeting everyone at a new level. And so every interaction is up for analysis.
Yeah. Interesting. You do? Yeah. Probably. Yeah. I'm just trying to think about what I was thinking it certain times. I think more was kind of good been good or bad. A lot of people are just stepped back. Why back and didn't just didn't get involved. And I think at the time merlok at the time, it felt like would have been good to have them around. And now looking back, I think was great they weren't, because it just would have got too complicated and too much interference. And like he said in analysing what everyone's saying, Yeah, well, what about an overwhelmed philon. So I'm grateful for the fact that everyone just kept a distance. And it's funny that over time, and now, people come back. And then also, you know, not cutting people out, but removing certain people create space for new people to show up, and then the newspapers show up. Based on the energy that I am and what I what I put out there, you start attracting people with like minded values and beliefs. And I've got a great crew of people around me now and I'm stoked and you know, some of the ones who have spent a large portion of my life around me always some all the best and love and happy in their lives, and I don't have any kind Your feelings towards them. But it hasn't always been that way. Through the journey, it's taken me two years to get to that point, which is, you know, as two years straight I literally when we went around wise,
man, growing up your family life, do you sort of approach? I mean, what was your What was your upbringing like?
Oh, interesting story. So I was adopted when I was born, I grew up in an Australian family found out that I was adopted when I was five. I had a great childhood, I went to a local primary school, and I'm writing about all this in my book at the moment, which I've written, it says somewhere it's not bad for an A plus student or what does it and then, you know, like mom and dad split up when I was 15. And so I like to reflect back on it. It's like the cyclical pattern that keeps happening. nylock and yeah, it's interesting to reflect back and, you know, I mean, I met my biological mother when I was 30 and found out the circumstances behind the adoption, that type of thing, which was really, really confronting mature I've shared this video affair and yeah, I don't know I like when I was younger. Yeah, I was pretty happy. And then when mom and dad and broke up was really hard, and even with my son of saying, saying he's will change and I empathise with him, he's a great kid and he's come to a really good and I think with him, he's had his mom and his dad really, really present through it all, which is really, really important. And, you know, I just had my mom through a dad was in Queensland, and so we've got a great relationship, but it's funny. I had resentment probably from my childhood, and through this process of getting divorced the people that I've leaned on the most of my mom and dad and now we've got these amazing relationships that have transformed based on going through these
pretty shit time. Where was the resentment coming from?
I told me asking some good questions. Just blind like blaming for you know, like, for my dad probably not being around and being there and I don't know, my mom, not sure. I think you know, We're more together on our way so when we were when mom and dad were together a family and like cousins and uncles and aunties, we always socialise together and go to family barbecues and that type of thing and then when they split up that kind of stopped because people don't know how to deal with it and and the relationships with the dynamics of relationships change and so on. I maybe I had some resentment against my mom around that and yeah, but I have looked at where it's come lot. But he said the big Christmases when I was married and lots of people around and you know his bride and then you know, this this year mom like living at my mom's place for the past 12 months, which has been challenging but right now, where this beautiful little lunch me and her and the two kids and was kind of like, say, Mom, you would this would never happen. You would never have hosted a Christmas lunch if Michelle didn't get divorced. So
having a year always is it's a great way to look at it, I think because what otherwise is Looking at,
well, you know, everyone's like, you know, things aren't always positive, right? But in every scenario what I've learned is that there's a positive and negatives to everything. And you can find it in both as pointless I think just to look for the positives or just look for the negatives, which seems to happen. Look for the positive and negative and everything, there's a benefit. And there's a pro and a con in every situation. Yeah. And you can learn something from everything and everyone.
It's like, when people make redundant I feel like when someone leaves a wrong people know my like, I'm so sorry. Like I because I've never been really good at working for a company. I always get pumped when someone's like leaving. And it's interesting hearing how people project, how they feel about other people's situation like I'm so sorry, that you're having to, you know that you've lost your job or things like that. How do you frame those types of like so for instance, a mate gets a divorce. How do you approach it from your words and how you sort of I approach it
just like Congratulations, Hagen on Tinder.
I think just be there for you know, I love just be there. I think the best way to approach it. People go through a lot of stuff. There's a lot of emotion and I think you'd be just be just there for someone and help somebody. That's what you doing. I had someone who was a was a friend who lanting really, really hard to me and I wouldn't have got through without him. And he lines Brad and you know, I love him to this day. And he was just there every day. And he called me every day come around, he helped me move, you went above and beyond. And knowing that there was a person like that, who was a rock, when others probably didn't know what to say I didn't know what to do. But he was just there. It was always there. And then keep continuing to show up and he'd been through it as well. And so it's funny that I look so he'd been through it. So he knew he knew the stages in the whole and the whole journey. And now, I'm paying that forward to other people. And I know I've just learned from him and that's model what he did to me and now that I've learned about the different stages and how you feeling what happens, just just pass it on to to the others as well who got who I've attracted because they've seen how I've gone through it and what I've done and where I'm at today,
we've got a good mate of ours, Ryan, john, who I filmed a video of him. He was adopted and it was talking on Mother's Day about his story. And it has been viewed 400 million times something and I led him down the path to find his biological dad and and now he like he's he's gone over the states to spend time with him and worked out the circumstances of how everything happened and it's been a positive journey from the outside. And from what he's told me that he went on, when when you are working out or wanting to are you wanting to find out your family And your family origins outside of what you know his mom and dad which happened
yeah, like so yeah, I met my biological mother when I was 30. Michelle was pregnant with our first at the time she was 30 weeks and I saw how she was feeling through it. And I thought the realisation came was like, holy shit. Someone's actually carried me around their stomach and I've contacted department Human Services, got in touch with them, fill out a form, send a check 60 bucks and have a chequebook law who has checks. And up in this in this room with his lively session, like 10 people sitting around the room is facilitator and
it was a 10 people either adopt a
slot really, we're all in the room together. I'm like,
I thought it was gonna be like you had to pick out who she was. And if I can get an extra 60 bucks if you want just one. But if you start with 10 Yeah, full on and so you're there. And so you've got 10 adopt a Yeah. And you're having conversations about what the experience could be like?
Yeah, it was this specific ization like what do you know about your past and everyone shared and then log off when I went for about an hour and then she said well I'm gonna leave the room now I gotta get your files and come back and so she left the room came back with these manila folders Connor monomi feet 12 English hide my fucking English
she hated me
quite a lot of hype back then never just got love. And then she comes back into the room starts handing out these manila folders in LA called second she was sitting here I was over there second, put it down in front of me and she was an interesting one and I'm like, Oh, yeah, you open it up and there's a birth certificate. The completely different name completely different. All the details were all different. You're like Who the fuck am I? Which 1am I this one on this one. is Jason Bourne all over again?
Yeah, yeah. And it was almost like I never forget. A bit of a head fuck
yeah, total, total head far. My head. identity was like challenge massively Thomas like you been in the, like a spy or something and they've just handed over you know, like you say that in movies or whatever.
Yeah, it was really intense and full on and like I opened it up and have a log birth certificate bang there Who the fuck that? And it was me you know and I remember looking up and you look around the rails crawling and everyone else is crawling after today's everything designed by inside rating the information behind I'm a biological mother's pregnancy and the application from my adoptive parents and what I did and what I went through and you know, and then the session winds up and the lady says Well, you've learned a lot today. I probably encourage you to wait about six months and then potentially send off a letter and I'm sitting the fuck that I'm gonna go find a straightaway and literally within two days I'd like it to a founder spoke to a mentor. How do you how do you go through that process? So they've given you a file their laws around it like what's what's the whole deal. I just look hirschorn I'm and you know, I was born in the Royal Women's Hospital and I just looked up that soon I typed it into Yellow Pages at the time.com that I you and seven
white pages was it it was it yellow pages Yellow
Pages back then I really yeah I remember so clearly and seven listings came up and that one was in South Melbourne or ranking let's say oh hello he's the person I want mentioned and then she said it was it was an older lady and to seek x in no darling she's in shepparton and I'm like, Okay, thanks. How about the final guy that was me grandma organ and a while a lot of fans out it was like was bizarre and then typed in the surname shepherd and 91 listing came up and get I do the 25th of October 1976 70 meaning in your life. And she like who is this lava was it was actually a sister at the time. And then we met two days later. Wow. Off full on it to ship it in now we end up meeting in Melbourne and I was a bizarre moment but my accents when you want me to come with you and I said now come on and end up driving out pop the car and we met these cafe and I remember running Oh remember go to the car started walking down this hill and I could say them by waving at me hair and a sister and I started running outside or running and the music stopped
running and luck
inside there I just started walking and then I'll go yeah I got to know just like all I've me is Casey me and hugging and a lot of these fucking inviting my personal by full on. And I was a lot to me. I felt like strangers. Yeah, sure, but I knew who I was. Yeah, I remember giving me up and I remember searching for me after like giving me up for adoption.
And then so don't use yellow pages.
I didn't have the information have the information at all. And then yeah, and then so once I once I'm sort of pushed them off me, I looked down and are you pregnant? And she goes, Yeah, I had no other children other than you. I'm like, back we're gonna see sandals and only child growing up, so I'll go to half sister. And so yeah, she was due to be born a month after math and she's mabs aunty yet she was going to be born after him, which is kind of bizarre rotten. Yeah, so that was full on and then you know, obviously, you know, had the conversation and then asked, okay, so why did you give me up for adoption? And she was she responded, I was very young or 16 years old, and she was sexually abused. And, you know, that really rocked my world in terms of who I was my identity and led me to making some decisions later on that, you know, weren't good decisions for my life and also my marriage and yeah, and it was a hell of a journey. Yes, I'm
getting to I'm gonna go Yeah, he's fine. So like, You're what you're sharing? Yeah,
yeah. Welcome. Yeah. And so what does that
How much is that transform? For me? Do you think when you find out something, something like that?
Yeah, really knocked me around a lot. And I was in shock. And I went home
to my wife, and at the time, and then I said, I can't talk to anyone I just needed on being a room of mine. And I was in that room for a day. I didn't want to leave it. And then obviously loft guys, I'm going to come out of it and leave loft and yes, super challenging.
Would you learn about stories that will narratives like I guess, within life? We all have our narrative question. Yeah. And then when it suddenly changes, what have you learned?
Yeah, well, I've learned you know, we get the opportunity to write our own stories. And we've got our own set of beliefs. And this is what I talked to a lot of people you know, who are who are you as a person. Focus on your values and beliefs. Focus on your personality and character characteristics and your talents, abilities and skills, and write all that stuff down around who you think you are, and who you really Thank you, I and I like going over and put some some music on that you might love or really applies you feel really empowered and to start writing, writing, writing, because that's and then look at it look at the page inside with what I did anyway. Is that what I'm living at right now? And for me, I wasn't. And so
was it was the person you want it to be? Or is it?
Yeah, well, it's interesting, isn't it? So where does this stuff come from? Does it come from our unconscious? Does it come from us? Or does it come from Matt? Ha, where does it come from? I mean, there's so many different theories, right? But I think it's a combination of all of n the person that I believe I am and who I want to be. And then it's about how do you bridge that gap. And then that's not always a quick process, and it can take time and life goes on and we've got distractions, we got pressures your kids, we got businesses, we got work, when you create that time for yourself. And, you know, since since separating the last couple of years, I was really really mindful to spend lots and lots of time on my own. Because see a lot of people they'll jump out of relationship Another straight into another one straight into another one straight into another one. And I could see that playing out. I didn't want to do that. So I spent lots of time on just really understand who I who I am as a person without any distractions and without any sugar
to figure out who I am as a person.
I'm still figuring it out. I don't have all the answers. I'm still making it up every day. You know what I mean?
And so, our past and past experiences, how much do you think that ethos or how much? You know, how much is that? Yeah. How much is that as
well? I think it's kind of lockout
history, Ron, how important is our history in regards to how we believe our die should die? Hmm.
For me? To answer that question, I don't have the answers. I learned how to forgive myself. And through that process that helped a lot. And then I'll learn how to forgive others, which also helped a lot because then that enables them to gave themselves in their lives. But I don't know the answer to that question. That's a tough Yeah, yes. me some tape. Yeah, question.
And so when you have done the Forgiving Do you then have to reconcile the fact that other people might not be ready or on the same journey?
Yeah, I think so for me, you know, meaning and reframing the meaning of the events in my life has been massive as a book by Viktor Frankl. Man's Search for Meaning is about the Holocaust. And this this, this guy, and his wife were prisoners of war and they knew they were going to die. And he literally watched his wife die. Yet, he found inner peace and happiness. Whilst this was going down, Viktor Frankl, it's amazing book. And you got to let people go, you gotta you gotta allow people to go on their own journey and learn for themselves and when they're ready, and when their time comes. They'll make decisions themselves. And I think that Something you know, I was in a codependent relationship from the start. And so to come out of that and fully let go of that, and that takes time to, we can only ever control our ourselves our thoughts, our emotions, our feelings, our actions. It's us. There's nothing else yeah.
What about like that school of thought? Or like what society says around like, selfish ness or individualism? How can you? How can you frame these things on like focusing on the self without the selfish,
everyone selfish? Is my belief. Yeah, we all are, whether or not we like to admit it or not. We're all doing things for our own interest, whether or not that somebody who you know is always there for their family and friends and does things for them. They're doing that obviously to hell, but also for their own reasons, you know, so they feel good about themselves, and that could be even covering up a bit of a wound or a hole I might have inside.
They saving everyone else but forgetting to save themselves, you know?
is being selfish. I'm just trying to think Well, if you're choosing yourself or choosing to say for instance it's you need to start losing weight you start going to the gym and you have to be quite selfish in terms of what you need to do to achieve that for yourself but the flow on effect for the people around you might make you happy. I mean, there's probably better examples around mental health and being able to put those boundaries in place that affect so there's a decision on you to take control for yourself that affects others. Yeah, but then in turn, it helps your relationships Yeah,
well, I think you know, like if we do the work on ourselves, we come from a place where we love ourselves and we can love others you know, you would have heard of the analogy the full car, you know, if we've got enough enough in our tank we can give to others. From my observations and experiences when I've been in my, my pain, I project my pain on to other people and create more pain, and then they're in pain in their correct pushing more pineapple. We've got love in our hearts and we can we can love and then Through loving unconditionally, then other people like stuff right alive. Yeah, I mean, I'll go into this town and do some consulting. And there's, you know, you know, the homeless situation in our country. I walk past people all the time and I see most people in society just walking past without a second thought, not even. And there's always one guy every day. I mean, they are gone, sit down with him, have a chat, give him some cash, go get him give him some go to Kaka. Go to several of them get a hot chocolate and give him some of that and I just sit there just love him unconditionally. Back in the day, it was a time I went and bought a guy a bottle of wine a pack a CDs and also a Big Mac meal. Because loving unconditionally we love some mom the good combo as well as a C combo.
But if we can love somebody like that, how they gonna feel that God was not the other
99% of the population. So that love pace you talked about your relationship with your ex and it was built on love. I think at the start Has your definition or how you look at love changed
fuck laser good questions. These are great questions I
think you need to really love yourself. So when we met It was like I think more mind rather than hot. I was looking for family at the time which she had big family. Ah, that takes a ball. That's good. That feels good. Even though she's hot as when I met her and loved her and locking all the scenes with both into each other physically. still beautiful it today.
Yeah, well very codependent.
And then now on you know, just love me for who I am as a person and that's taken a long time to get to that point.
So it was a different than is that
different it's a more mature
because it feels like it sounds like potentially like if he loves coming from inside you need to reconcile the stuff that's inside. So you haven't That worked out we can superficially tick some boxes then becomes projected based on what we think we want.
Yeah and and yeah sure and like I don't know I haven't fallen in love again yet I don't think although it's pretty funny I've fallen in love three times in the last six months
come on by they like you Bonnie better once
it's quite funny actually but I'm just really passionate guy like I don't know, oh,
you more truthful than you were Do you think
yeah why more truthful but is that through self awareness experience I guess carried around that it's not
that you're lying before but it's truth to yourself could be understanding yourself better and acting in a way that serves that or opens that up more or, you know say your truth you learn that more. Yeah, you're not a part of that business world is highly pressured and anxious You know build that cortisol level constantly like you guys I know that's there but fuck it I'm just make more money or do something you know. So it's facing the truth of I don't need to do that. Leave that way
now living way more truthfully to who I am. And you know, the more I've lent into that, that same desire the my external world has changed a hell of a lot. And I feel happier, and I got more love and happiness to give and I've had so many people like these are all your energy like, but what's happened to you? I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I'm just LinkedIn, LinkedIn, LinkedIn, LinkedIn. And now I'm doing the stuff I love today. I'm working on the businesses. I love to work on and I'm just happy.
You're talking about the cyclical stuff. I keep just getting into a bit of a cycle and you see it coming. Yeah. Have you gotten using that example of you know, you meet someone and you might sort of see that codependent bit in you or the person who's super passionate. Do you start to see those things See them as signs that are like I actually want to stop this cycle I want to adjust hmm that's a good one
yeah maybe a little bit might be a little bit for sure because it's a dance not just because like you have a I want to be this way it happens automatically it takes time that lag period again right yeah
fuck thanks to the fucking challenging bussaco
yeah I got no accreditation to
two and anything gotta sit for and
pay does it mean I got so 123 and then for
me I wonder why they started for on the Hot made so many mistakes and I recognise the secret to do you got to be willing to make mistakes and I'll bite all of them and I'll fucking love it because brought me to the point that I'm at today and I'll continue to make mistakes my entire life and I'm and I'm cool with that
Don't comfortable with that. Just quickly on on money, people's relationships with money, do you think people's desire to make money so if it is a goal, I want to make cash lots of it. Do you think it's counterproductive in the long term in in the, you know, so let's say for instance,
can you be fulfilled like other people doing it? Well, they're
actually doing it because I think the people promoting the hustle and all that shit yeah, Gary Vee, you know, do the business stuff make the money? Like he's Do you think it's sustainable for any form of happiness?
I think if you're if you're aware, I think if you've got low levels of self awareness, you say a lot of people and they're they're chasing chasing coin and chasing materialistic things. And at a level, they'd be making money to buy shit to get the sugar. And I think at some point in time, they're gonna have a fucking realisation. Sugar By the way, quit sugar. Yeah, well, a lot of lollies but I don't have any more coffee. What does that mean? No sugar.
No sugar and you can only beat your way. Sorry. I like Wally's lie, but you ate them. So well. Yeah.
Yeah. A lot of fucking snacks. They go
to a gym every day.
What's been hot about soccer moms joy because she loves
my mom. Yeah, yeah. What was the thought?
So there's lots of people in the generation, you know, the 20s and 30s. And think that's what success is. And that's what all is choice and to be happy and I got what I thought was a level for me, that would make me happy. And I had a lot of fun with it. And then
a lot of it I don't have any more yet. I've still got some of it.
And now I'm leaning into the things I'm passionate about. And my belief is that me doing the work and showing up with who I am as a person will create more money than Whoever created yet that's not the primary driver for what I'm doing,
which is a good belief because I think most people probably choose the all aim to make money based on it being a more clear thought in your mind of that talent, make money versus go the other way. spend time doing something I love which can essentially make a lot of money. I mean, if you're just choosing to be as you love your saxophone, it's probably not a clear route to making cash draw big cash. But yeah, so it's a weird one because I think that's where the, the enticement to have money as a goal. Is there based on you just it's making more sense to mind versus taking this approach?
Yeah, yeah. We can't buy happiness at the end of the day. It's pretty straightforward and simple. You can I mean, you can buy
no bad. Yeah, it would wear out. Yeah,
it would wear out and, I don't know.
Put it in an index fund. And now I get, it's interesting because when you chase the cash, you don't have to do the internal work. And that's what like my, the thing that I constantly think about is it's like, when I focus too much on the money problems, I'm like, reframing of like, which bit is the money problem? How much of this is a money problem? And I think that money's an interesting one because it's, it's very real. You can say it, it's like, if you don't have money in the bank, if you can't pay something, it's very easy, tangible, tangible bit of friction. Yeah. But it's, it's the second or third thought around Okay, well, what why? What is this? What am I actually worried about?
Yeah. And so I've now I like, had no money when I was like eight or nine I didn't have money and then I worked and I got money and like, Oh,
I gotta be more Oh, now can I do this and go do that? And then I got more. This is God this give me more this shit. And then yeah, I've got more and more one. There's a lot no There's a point in time for me where I had an awareness of Holy shit.
Do you ever think about fact if I had the cash now with the internal work
are pretty pretty, pretty good? Yeah, a lot because it's fascinating and I like I'm about to set oh and accomp a fucking car, believe it have bought seven properties in my life and as a nine, a nine year old kid. I don't know if I saw one of them and then got the one to my ex happily, by the way, because, you know, my kids are there half of the time that I'd never thought that would happen. I had a belief when I was younger. How can you do that? How did I do that? And then it's true to doing and you learn how to do it. And it's actually not that hard, but it's all the fucking forms and cheat you gotta do admin. You could with admin now but I'm really fucking determined. And I just won't stop until I get to the outcome. But even that, but that the lift to get to that point, I never thought I would have done that. And now unlock You know what? I'm gonna get 20 Yeah, and I reckon I will in the next 10 years. Okay. Don't keep going keep going. Because the Blake's there,
so keep it in check out what's the different framing? Yeah. So you don't end up with another concussion in a
show on my resume? My reason why Yeah, and so through, you know, the vehicles and you know, businesses now to have them around or really thrive them around creating positive change in society. And I see that now as a fuel to grow and expand and scale those businesses. Because I mean, going through, you know, the separation and divorce and gonna move into my mom's house and renovating a garage and living in that. It's just brought me back to my roots of what was a 99 year old punk rock me skate sky to surf on. fucking love that. That's my happiness. Yeah. And there's like, once you know that, then that changes everything from it's changed everything for me. However, I'm not naive enough to say, if the money starts coming. And when it starts growing and expanding, I'm going to be careful, and Jarek, I'm gonna have to check myself for sure. because it'd be easy to get sucked into that thought process again, because there's a 15 or 20 years of patenting my brain. And it's there and yeah, we can rewrite it with new memories and new stories and that type of thing in neurology. Lots of the native the record doesn't just change needs to be scratched a lot. And you know, I'm only two years into this journey or two or three so the early days early die. Yeah, hundred percent. Get it done film. bizarre. Yeah. What a soccer, analysing. I'll tell you the funny guy.
That was funny. We should go surfing this year. 2020. Yeah,
we're not not Jan Jackie will probably lose us.
Well, yeah, I think we could start. Yeah. I mean, I like I said, the urban surfing we're definitely going to do definitely I like the idea. I feel like you're sort of one with nature. You can get around the hippie vibe. Over the pokies. Afterwards, you can place down at genja.
Yeah, and it's funny. It's funny you say that I've actually been doing work with corporate teams. I was I took a Melbourne united basketball team. Botha, the pokies
that a preseason camp down there with a team come together nine days before the season starts and Israel implies some of the imports from the NBA. I will come together took them down for a three day trip down the coast, put them in a vein based training facility ran a workshop took them surfing and that's that's kind of one of the one of the reasons I do now. All right, so yeah, we can do it. We can have the daily talk show team. Let
I've got a friend Sara Lee. She lives in Hawaii and she has these epic surf photos. And it would be great one day, I'd love to go surfing and we can get the daily talk show for photo shoot. We ran experience while surfing while surfing like underwater. What about some underwater stuff?
Yeah, I mean quick and to get that done. If we go to urban surf, we can just get on one wife whether you like it I do.
Like the idea of the problem with going I guess sort of like a controlled environment is you don't like I've got a slight not a fee. But the whole thing with the origin of like not knowing what's under your feet. If I know that it's concrete, it's too easy. I feel like part of it is like if I feel seaweed or whatever, like,
I get to see where you get to learn how to surface
wire. I can. I can like I can get on the board. So I can on the board. Yeah, I mean, up
So one of the boards happening. We can
just jump up safely.
Yeah, we could do that. Let's get them into the story.
Yeah, if you jump out safely, yeah.
actually think I'd be quite good. But the core core strength is obviously an important part. Yeah. Helps. Yeah. Do some of those fucking step paddle standing stuff. saps stand up paddle. Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, looks like a real grommet. Is that
is that a grommet thing? I feel like more sort of Indonesian sort of like, Zane. No, yeah, funny guy. Funny guy actually told me funny boy buddy boy Yeah, when I was like 1998 I went there had bleach blonde hair or whatever little fat kid and yeah, I had a hot harmonica that I bought. And I was fucking obsessed about by buying a laser, you know, you're in the market, selling lasers or whatever it is. And my parents would let me get one. And so then years later I went to Thailand and bought like a fucking like 21 in bought like a board in industrial grade laser. It was fucking It was awesome. Like, I spent like 50 bucks on it. And then obviously I couldn't take it home couldn't take it on the plane. And so just gave it some like random locals. Yeah, I think they thought they'd hit the jackpot. Right. Thank you for coming on the show.
Thanks for having me, Josh. It's a daily talk show.
Hi, the daily talk show calm. His name address. If you enjoyed the show, please subscribe. We're on your YouTube as well otherwise said Mr. guys say guys you Shockers