Aussie Bushfire Relief With Ryan Shelton (Live Show)

Ryan: The Daily Talk Show.

Tommy: It's the Daily Talk Show episode 579 at the SB.

Josh: Oh yeah, let's paint a little picture. Today's a special day for us. This is celebrating our 2-year anniversary of the podcast.

Tommy: And yeah, we're here with Ryan Shelton. Welcome.

Ryan: Thank you. Thanks for having me. I mean, what you're amazing. What a turnout. That's amazing.

Tommy: It's amazing.

Ryan: All for Glow Journal.

Tommy: Unfortunately, and lady brains, unfortunately.

Josh: What you're witnessing right now is 3 mediocre white male sausage fest.

Tommy: So welcome. Welcome. Welcome.

Ryan: Proudly. I'm a legend apparently from the bio. So yeah.

Josh: This podcast episode is going out tonight 'cause we haven't missed a day. So we kind of want to paint the picture and also flag that Josh may lose his C4.

Ryan: Yeah.

Tommy: Yeah. So the, yeah, I've fully engaged my core right now. If you can't see what's going on.

Ryan: It's a low chair.

Tommy: Yeah, it is, it is. It's definitely the chair. But what I like to do before, at the start of every show, I just like to cheque the temperature in the room. So, um, uh, can I see out the back there? Great, great. Uh, everyone knows Nando's? Everyone knows Nando's? Yeah? Okay. Uh, how many people, uh, like lemon and herb? Can I get a hands up? Lemon and herb? Okay, yep, great.

Josh: We got one.

Tommy: What about a mild? Can I get your hands up for a mild?

Josh: A couple of milds here, Josh.

Tommy: Great, yep. How about hot? Yeah, great. How about extra hot? Awesome, thank you.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: Wow.

Ryan: So, yeah.

Josh: So, inside joke.

Tommy: There you go. So, Ryan Sheldon, the last time we spoke was actually in Los Angeles.

Josh: Yeah, that was the 3 Mediocre White Male Sausage Fest on tour.

Tommy: Yes, it was.

Ryan: It was great fun at the top of Runyon Canyon.

Tommy: Yes, it was very beautiful.

Ryan: A lot of flies which didn't show up on the video. But there were thousands of them.

Tommy: There were a lot of thousands.

Josh: How are you feeling, mate, in that chair?

Ryan: I feel great. You look great. I feel like I'm like, because you know how Letterman always has his chair, all the Tonight Show hosts have their chairs up a little bit higher than the guest as like a status thing.

Tommy: Yeah, it's definitely feeling a little bit like that.

Josh: I mean, your audio's sounding better than ours.

Tommy: Yeah, I'm feeling that too. I'm about to walk off, but that's okay.

Ryan: Just please stay for 23 more minutes.

Tommy: Yeah, so yeah, we're gonna be a sharp 20 minutes. Fucking Siri, sorry Siri. Is just on my eyeballs.

Josh: There's gonna be a few people waving. They're not fans, they're actually people telling us to get the off.

Tommy: Yeah, yeah. So we can be quick. So Ryan, I feel like when I first saw you, it was back in Rove days and then we became friends a few years later. And I feel like everyone's being shushed, which is great because you're very high status right now. Royalty's here.

Ryan: I'm literally the highest person in the room.

Tommy: It's very true.

Ryan: This is, I mean, Actually, it looks great from up here.

Josh: The DJ behind you is big.

Ryan: Fucking Locky!

Tommy: Get down, get down. So there's a big shift there going from being on the television to changing sort of what you're doing and going more behind the scenes. What's that shift like from a personal identity point of view?

Ryan: Yikes.

Tommy: Status is still high though. Status is high.

Ryan: We only have 21 minutes. Well, that was a big change, but it was sort of a change in the sense that I wasn't on screen as much, but not so much a change that I was still getting to make the things that, you know, I was excited to make with the people that I really loved. And so that's always been the thing that I've been lucky to do. Even though my ability to do what I truly, truly want to do has, you know, gone up and down, as it does, I imagine, for most people. But I've always been able to work with people that I really like and are friends with and enjoy spending time with. And the more stuff I do and the longer I work, the more I realise that that is the most important thing. It's like spending time with the people that you actually like spending time with.

Josh: I mean, it's lucky that I mean, not lucky, but the fact that you grew up with the Jules Lunds, the Hamish, all of the crew that is your—

Ryan: How many Jules Lunds do you know? There's a couple of copycats out there.

Tommy: He's got about 2 personalities, main one.

Josh: The Jules Lunds, the big ego tall guys.

Ryan: Oh yes.

Josh: The white male crew. But what do you, I mean—

Tommy: You're not gonna let that go, are you?

Ryan: No, I'm not. Is it over?

Josh: Is the funniness over?

Tommy: Is it done? One more sausage fest joke?

Ryan: One more and we get to resentful.

Josh: That'll be fun. Achieving the success you guys have with your mates seems like the dream. Like, when was there— who were you paying off those days as a group of friends that are like getting into the media and all doing it together?

Ryan: Uh, well, I don't know. I mean, it just, it felt like quite a gradual, organic thing for us. We were just— I think it was probably unique that so many of us that were hanging out together at that time, we all wanted to do the same thing. And then maybe as people started getting success, like for example, like Jules, and he would get, he got on Getaway. And then someone, and then like Hamish got a job at Fox FM. And then all of a sudden what seemed impossible when you're just a 18-year-old kid and you don't really know how to get into the industry, and this is like before YouTube and before anything. So it really does seem impossible, and so when people start getting there and they're your friends, you think, oh, well, maybe it isn't so impossible. And I think it just sort of bridges whatever gap there was. And maybe, maybe that was— it was a result of that. But I don't know, it didn't seem that strange at the time.

Josh: I'd like to think that seeing people who are successful, and I think in my head that it's like they're the people who are thinking, in 5 years I'm going to be here, and they're the goal setters, and, and they're the successful— they found their way to success the way you think people find their way to success. Was it For you, in terms of breaking into something you love doing at a commercial level, was it a goal that you set when you were younger?

Ryan: I mean, only in the— I mean, it's probably for a deep dive on this, you can listen to the last episode of our podcast, The Imperfect. But yeah, I mean, when I was a teenager, I always just, my natural dream was to do what, the people that I admired did, which was to have, to be a writer and a creator and a star of your own TV show. And that was just always the thing that I held up as the thing that I thought that if I got that, then I'll be happy. That will like, that's the thing that I need to feel happy or successful or I don't know, show my mum that I'm doing something with my life. So, and that was all—

Josh: Look at your mum.

Ryan: Mum is not here, which is why I said it. But she, but I always just sort of was striving I was striving for that and that just seemed like the thing that I just wanted. And so, because that was always the thing I wanted, all these things that I was lucky enough to be able to do, whether it be like do a radio show or be on Rove or even produce all the Gap Year shows and stuff and travel around the world and do these unbelievable things, I couldn't really enjoy it as much as I should have been at the time because all I was thinking was, this will get me to the next level and this will get me closer to being able to get my dream. And the thing that I have realised now was that this is like, doing this is the dream. Like being able to do this tonight is unreal.

Josh: How good is that, Josh?

Tommy: That's really good. It's his dream.

Ryan: I am just saying that. I am just saying that. Now that I think about it.

Tommy: He's a great guest. Yeah.

Ryan: Now that I actually just, I should rephrase that. This is not the dream, but this is pretty fun. So no, this is the dream. Everything that we get to do is the dream.

Tommy: And I say everything's a dream now. I don't wanna be the fucking dream if everything's the dream.

Josh: God, he's a wishy-washy guy, isn't he?

Ryan: Yeah, no, I mean, I did.

Tommy: So the now is the dream. Like, so what did you waste your time worrying about? Were there things that you look back on that you spent a huge amount of time that actually doesn't matter today?

Ryan: Yeah, like getting my own TV show felt like, and only up until really recently, it felt like the thing that I had to get. And if I didn't get that thing, then it's like all been a waste of time. But then I kind of had the realisation that to do what I really enjoy doing, I don't need the TV show. I can do lots of other things.

Josh: Is it setting that destination that becomes a problem?

Ryan: I think it's just, yeah, I think that the key probably is, and this doesn't go for everyone, this is just my own experience, but is forgetting the destination. It's like the destination doesn't matter. Because so many things can get in the way of you getting there that has nothing to do with how talented you are or anything. Like, so many things can happen that we can't control. So to worry so much about the thing that you wanna do in 5 years, I think it just takes away a little bit from what you're doing now to be able to enjoy the moment.

Tommy: In your podcast, The Imperfects, you're actually the guest on the final episode of season 1.

Josh: He hasn't left yet.

Tommy: He's still within every episode.

Josh: Yeah, yeah, still within.

Ryan: We're still going.

Tommy: The, you talk there about the shame or feeling of guilt around how you're feeling about your best mate, Hamish Blake, who was on his own path and you've sort of had realisations over the past year or whatever around that.

Ryan: Yeah.

Tommy: What does that make you learn about how you perceive other people? Or judge other people day to day?

Ryan: Just, you mean just random people?

Tommy: Yeah, well, no, I think—

Josh: Or just the two rows back.

Tommy: Exactly, no, it's like how you interact with people. So I guess, you know, we all, we're constantly thinking about things and I guess the giving everyone the benefit of the doubt or being able to think positively about someone and being able to celebrate them. Did that uncover that realisation around not feeling great about that and then being able to resolve it has that helped with other day-to-day interactions with other people?

Ryan: Oh yeah, I'm for sure. I think there's lots of stuff that I've, that I've read over the years and podcasts I listen to or shows that I watch that it— when you hear people's real story, then it obviously opens up a new side of them that maybe you didn't know about. And I think everyone knows what that's like when you hear someone's real storey and it's different than the version of the person that you've assumed that they've been for the last year or 10 years, it completely changes your opinion of them. And, and you have, you have the ability to empathise with them, which is just the greatest thing.

Tommy: What about like bringing hard conversations forward? I guess that's an example with Hamish where it was the podcast, your podcast, that actually prompted you to sit down and say, hey, I've actually been feeling this way. Yeah. Do you think we need to be having tougher conversations sooner in life?

Ryan: Yeah, well, I think so. And it's, it's sort of easy for me to say now in a way because I've, I've sort of, I've had one. But, uh, I can say, I can say from the experience I've had of, of talk— and I won't go into it too much, a lot of people here are going, listen to the podcast, but yeah, it It was essentially just like a thing that I was feeling in my life where I felt like I wasn't good enough to do the thing that I wanted to do. And I tracked it back to the early days of when we were starting out. And Hamish and I were like best mates, still are, but since high school, since we were like 15. And you start off at the same place as someone, and then one person sort of like, you both going the same and same, and then one person just gets a bit higher. And then you can't help but compare yourself. And we're all, you know, it's a bit of an issue at the moment, obviously, the comparing ourselves to each other.

Josh: Comparing people that are higher than you?

Tommy: I mean, yeah, exactly.

Josh: The highest guy in the room.

Ryan: Yeah.

Tommy: So now he just made sure I'm comparing myself to him.

Ryan: Uh, yeah, so it just sort of the, the ability to have the conversation, like you said, like I wouldn't have had the conversation with him, uh, that I was, uh So I will go into it. So because it's annoying otherwise.

Tommy: So have I been annoying? Is this a little bit annoying for you?

Ryan: No, no.

Tommy: It sounds like it's a bit annoying.

Ryan: But spend the next week thinking about it.

Tommy: Okay, no, great. No, it was more because I thought it was a good opportunity for people to listen to the podcast. But I'm happy that you're going into it now.

Ryan: Thank you. So, so, So essentially, I had this feeling like that I wasn't good enough and I wasn't— it's not that I didn't think I could achieve things, I thought I could do things, but I never felt like I was— I just had this feeling, this fraudulent feeling or this insecure thing that I was like, well, I can't do the things that many other people are doing. And I tracked it back to this thing of like, well, it's probably because Hamish and I were at the same level and then he rose up and did incredible things. And because then my reaction to that was like, I want that. Or I wish I was doing that. And oh shit, why isn't he bringing me along for the ride? Like why isn't he giving me the same things that he's been given? I saw that as really unfair. And then because of that, for years I wasn't able to like celebrate the great things he was doing. I wasn't able to like be there as his best mate and be happy for him when he had the biggest podcast in Australian history. And he, all these, I mean, we all know what he's done, but, and I was sort of off to the side and I couldn't even listen to his radio show, their radio show, and I couldn't, I couldn't be that great mate that I would want if I was experiencing that. Because having that much success and fame, of course, it's great and a lot of good things come with it, but of course you want your close people with you to be able to support you through what is a pretty strange experience. And I wasn't able to be there for him in that time because I was resentful. And so I had this realisation recently and spoke to him about it, and it was pretty incredible because you might think that he'd be like shocked, but he felt it. Like the whole time he was feeling that same thing. He was probably a bit confused as to why why I wasn't like getting excited about all the funny things he was doing. And to be able to talk to him, and not that we, our friendship suffered or anything like that, but there was definitely this weird block there, this weird little thing that was unresolved and never spoken about. And to be able to speak about it meant that all those years of confusion and that weird block was kind of just, just, just vanished. Sort of because we both understood. And then he then said some, some things to me that, like, issues that he had with the way that— which I won't go into now, but like, it meant it opened up a whole conversation that meant that we could have this, this chat about all the stuff that we haven't said. And now we were already like, you know, we were already really good friends, and now I just feel like it's just easier.

Josh: I mean, catalysts for these kind of conversations, they're hard, and so you could I mean, if you built the muscle of saying, "I'll have the hard conversation, I'll bring it forward." I mean, it takes time and it's only human to keep these things inside. But without getting into details, I was gonna say, what was it internally for you that shifted? Not necessarily, you know, the day that you decided to have a conversation like that, but what is it inside that actually makes you action something that is going to be a really hard thing in life?

Ryan: What made me do it?

Josh: Yeah, what is the, why do you, if you're getting a bit meta about why you decided to do it now?

Tommy: Was it just the podcast? It was just the podcast.

Ryan: In my case, it was the podcast and it's a shame. That's pretty fucked up.

Tommy: It's pretty fucked up.

Ryan: It's a shame that it took that, but.

Tommy: But I can relate, like I think that we talk about more shit on our podcast than we do to our family and friends.

Ryan: But I will say though that I reckon the fact that I'm doing this podcast, which is so out of my comfort zone and so different than anything I've ever done before, I think there was something bigger probably that pushed me towards wanting to do that. And this has just been one of the results of that. So I think I'm learning a hell of a lot about, like, I'm absolutely not the expert in mental health at all.

Tommy: And so you've got a co-host, Hugh, and it's part of the Resilience Project?

Ryan: Yeah, so Hugh van Cuylenburg is the founder founder of the Resilience Project, and he's this incredible guy, and he does these talks around the country, and he's been doing it for years, and just helps thousands and thousands of people. And I met him randomly, and we became friends, and now we do this podcast together. So he's the expert giving all the— so don't worry, you're not gonna tune in and like, I'm giving lessons on mental health. But he is. Start a podcast. But it's so helpful. Like, I learn a hell of a lot from him,, and I know a lot of the people that listen learn a lot as well. And he is, he does, he is able to deliver lessons and, and talk about things in a way that's quite accessible and, and not as dry as maybe sometimes it feels.

Josh: Can we all agree that it's very annoying that the hard things in life are the things that actually help us progress? Like, it, yeah, it is really. I think last year for me, I spent, I really sort of learned that, that doing the shit that's uncomfortable is where you find the growth, which it sounds so cliché and it has for so long, but it's like really embodying that is super helpful. So it's like, if that's the hack, which isn't even a hack because it's this painful thing that you have to put yourself through, like a conversation with you or a podcast every day with this guy, you know, there's a bunch of stuff, man. It's all good. Great socks.

Tommy: Yeah, I'm fine.

Josh: Thank you.

Tommy: I don't actually know what these socks are. Stars on them.

Josh: They're good, they're all good socks except for mine today.

Ryan: You don't have to have an explanation for every pair of socks.

Tommy: Well, no, actually, I got these for my brother's wedding. He was— it was gifted to me. But the, um, I know you said not to give an explanation, but, uh, the feeling, what, like, to live vicariously through you. So instead of us having the hard conversation, can you just tell us how good it felt? What was the— was it all a good feeling walking away?

Ryan: Yeah, it was a relief. It's that feeling, it's a bit of a burden off, a bit of a weight off your shoulders.

Tommy: What's the setting? What do you, when do you, I try and work out how do you have these conversations?

Ryan: It was at Vaudemont. It was, we went out for dinner and yeah, I just sort of.

Josh: Vaudemont?

Ryan: Not at Vaudemont.

Josh: Okay, Nando's.

Ryan: Not at Nando's.

Tommy: What sort of, what basting do you like?

Ryan: It was, what's that?

Tommy: Basting. Oh, I'm more than—

Ryan: what's the medium one?

Tommy: It's medium, yeah.

Ryan: Medium, yeah.

Josh: Or is it mild?

Tommy: I think it's very confusing. They have sauces and bastings and they call them medium for one and mild the other, which they should just—

Ryan: What do you mean?

Tommy: They don't— they don't— they're not consistent in that.

Ryan: Let's get them on the line.

Tommy: Yeah, we could. But, um, so that, that feel like—

Josh: so he went out for dinner.

Tommy: He went out for dinner. Yes, you go out to dinner.

Josh: Josh always wants to know, what did you eat?

Tommy: Yeah, yeah, what'd you have?

Ryan: I can't even remember what we had.

Tommy: And did you say, you're like, hey, I need to have, like, was it like, do you preface it?

Ryan: Oh, before the dinner?

Tommy: Yeah.

Ryan: No, it was just like a normal dinner and then just, uh, we're getting the wind up, aren't we?

Tommy: Yeah, we got 2 minutes, we got 2 minutes.

Ryan: And then yeah, I just sort of brought it up at dinner and just, yeah, it was, it's an awkward conversation, but at the same time—

Tommy: So you sound like, so, I've been thinking, do you want me to—

Ryan: I didn't have a script. But it was just, I just sort of said, hey, so blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I'm not gonna do it, but—

Josh: But there's a recorder, it's actually a podcast, so you can listen to it.

Tommy: It wasn't actually a podcast, he just talks about it in the podcast.

Josh: So, no, I thought they would've got that part.

Tommy: We'll just finish on this.

Josh: Yep.

Tommy: So you sit down. Yep. But you don't know that you're having a serious conversation.

Ryan: I know, I know, I know.

Tommy: But Hamish doesn't know.

Ryan: Yeah, but that sometimes happens when someone brings up a conversation and the other person's not coming. Like you don't have to— You know, like sometimes that happens.

Tommy: But the transitional point of like, "Oh yeah, I'll have this and that." It's like, "Hey, so I was thinking about like for the last 15 years I've been feeling like a little bit resentful." I didn't, that probably would've been, that's like the clickbait version.

Ryan: But I was a bit subtler than that. Yeah.

Josh: Yeah. Entree first and then.

Tommy: Yeah.

Ryan: Then hit him with the good shit.

Josh: Well, Food On is 8-course.

Tommy: Well, it'd be good to, I mean, having those conversations is important, right?

Josh: So if someone needs to have a hard conversation in the next 2 days, they're inspired by your conversation, the storey you tell leading up to it heightens obviously the feeling that you have inside about how it's gonna play out. What's some comfort for somebody, or is there nothing?

Ryan: Well, no. It's just uncomfortable. What I did honestly think afterwards and after we because of course it's hard starting. Once you're into it, it's easier. And once you finish it, it's even obviously easier again. And it depends what it is, obviously. But it's kind of hard to give a sweeping statement because everyone's different. But in my situation, it wasn't as big of a deal as I built it up to be. I think that's the— that problem when you kind of think something over and over and you analyse it over and over, even if it's just over a day. But when it happens over 15 years, you think, oh, and I— but the thing is, like, I wasn't even thinking about it for 15 years. I was just only thinking about it for a year. Yeah, because I didn't have the realisation till then. So, but then the comfort people can have is it's probably not going to be as big of a shock to the other person as you think it's going to be.

Tommy: Yeah, yeah.

Josh: I mean, I always try to keep shit from my wife, but she always knows something's up. Something's up.

Ryan: What sort of stuff?

Josh: Uh, well, look, We won't get into it. Okay, we still have to go to Vaudémont. Ryan Shelton, thank you, mate, for coming on this episode, our 2-year anniversary and a special occasion. How good is Anna and Kate?

Tommy: Yeah, and Caitlin.

Josh: Yeah, amazing, amazing guys.

Tommy: Queen Gronk, as she's known on the show, Gemma Watts smashed it out of the park with her chat as well.

Josh: All the people here for us, thank you everyone else, amazing.

Tommy: It's so good. Now everyone, like, if you've, if you can hear in the audio that we've had an audience, all of those great people have given cash, which is all going to help the bushfire relief in Victoria, which is amazing. And yeah, it's been great. And I really appreciate Ryan, 'cause I know that you like, with so many of these conversations, you pick a moment whether you, whether you are going to be open or not. I think this is a great example.

Josh: We had him in a corner.

Tommy: Actually, honestly. A high corner. And this is a great example of like, you know, you being open and talking about it. And I think that why you're doing the Imperfects and, you know, helping with the Resilience Project and all that sort of stuff is because you know that your storey can help others. And I think just hearing it now makes me think in my mind, 'Who are all these people I need to be speaking to right now that I probably haven't had the conversation with?' Oh, good. Thanks so much.

Ryan: Our pleasure. Thank you for having me, guys.

Tommy: Awesome, guys. It's a daily talk show. If you enjoyed the show, you can subscribe because probably most of you haven't yet.

Josh: And donate if you have any spare money. Donate.

Tommy: Not to us. Obviously, we don't have a Patreon. Maybe 2020.

Josh: Anyway, there is still nothing. We're getting wrapped up. Let's go.

Tommy: See you tomorrow, guys. Catch you guys.

Ryan: Bye.