#519 – Brooks Atwood On Design Perfectionism & Collaboration/
- November 17, 2019
Brooks Atwood – Le Provocateur, Creative Innovator & Designer
Brooks has been named as one of the “world’s innovative creators”, known for his passion for design, collaboration, education, and life. Brooks is the Design Director at OfficeUntitled and has given numerous lectures including TEDx, at the Museum of Arts & Design in New York City, the Museum of Contemporary Art in Sydney, and the Australian Centre of the Moving Image in Melbourne.
On today’s episode of The Daily Talk Show, we discuss:
– Perfection, experimentation, and MVPs
– Education and play-based learning
– Knowing your strengths and weaknesses
– Making money through creativity
– Notes, routines, and rituals
– Technology and its relationship with creativity
Brooks on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/brooksatwood/
Email us: firstname.lastname@example.org
Send us mail: PO BOX 400, Abbotsford VIC 3067
The Daily Talk Show is an Australian talk show and daily podcast by Tommy Jackett and Josh Janssen. Tommy and Josh chat about life, creativity, business, and relationships — big questions and banter. Regularly visited by guests and gronks! If you watch the show or listen to the podcast, you’re part of the Gronk Squad.
This podcast is produced by BIG MEDIA COMPANY. Find out more at https://bigmediacompany.com/
It's a daily talk show in Los Angeles and we're in a very cool I mean, I've never been to Coachella before, but we're in the boardroom called Coachella. Yeah. And we've got Brooke at Brooks. Next to us. How are you, buddy? Hey, good to be here. Thanks so much. Thanks for inviting us to Coachella. You're absolutely
welcome. It really is like a Coachella kind of moment. And and the the experimentation that we do here is very apropos. So Coachella is a good word.
Are they drinking Lacroix at Coachella I imagine that
they're probably drinking CBD infused at Coachella.
So we're in Culver City. This is the high HQ office entitled, what is office entitled.
Office entitled is a unique creative agency focusing primarily on architecture and interiors, but more with an experimentation or attitude of questioning realities or questioning unit preconceptions like what is a house or what is a children's museum and really the kind of like approaching projects from that unique kind of angle you took us for to this pretty quirky bathrooms that you got here. I just took a selfie wells in it
you wouldn't be the first
well I mean then it has the divided some people don't some people don't like the thought of other people using their phone in the bathroom. But your bathrooms here make you want to use it so I've been I think I've been in I think that's a good thing. Yeah, I think I love it. There's you know, what did you like Josh walking around these creative corners? I think the smell.
I mean, you weren't you and it wasn't the bathroom
smell. It's just a sense of I feel like I could smell a bit of glue going on. There's like it we've got heaps of small models of things that you're building. But there's you're actually printing shit out this stuff on the walls. It feels a little bit Willy Wonka. For creatives. Absolutely. You know what, now that I Think about it. It's unlike any architecture office. And I'm hesitant to say that word architecture as oftentimes is a creative agency. But there's been other magazine editors that have come through and they made the point of like this is looks like a studio at a university in a way of like, experimentation is encouraged. And that's the culture that we try to create here where you're able to experiment and test out ideas, all of course, for the benefit of the project to make the projects better. But it has that kind of Los Angeles experimentation all like less test and fail quickly, obviously. But let's test let's test and fail out ideas and talk about ideas.
So it means that minimum viable product Yeah, approach sure to design. I mean, how do you how do you grapple with perfection and that approach, because that approach doesn't allow to make it perfect.
Wow. You know, what comes to mind is the disco ball, so There's a disco ball hanging happens to be above my desk. But that's the skylight that gets the most natural and so it's a win win for me and the office and the disco ball. I think if you look at perfection into disco ball, disco balls are not perfect at all. In fact, it's incredibly difficult to make a sphere using tiny squares of mirrors. And they're not nicely glued on their money from afar looks amazing. And the effects are extraordinary. Yeah, so what we what we we actually strive for excellence on all the projects and we have a culture of like, technical abilities and know how and that's as equally as important as design, but so is experimentation. So most architecture practices or other practices are about, like executing well and doing a high level of design. But I think what separates us out is this idea of experimentation upfront and like this conceptual phase that we come in really heavy and strong at the beginning. So as I mean as you could since when you walked around and for the tour, there is a culture of like ecstatic Miss or like Static electricity in the air of like, you know, I'm getting goosebumps just thinking about it because like, you never know what's going to happen whether somebody like puts on a different song or there's a dance party. But we also have like, design review Thursdays. So there's an hour that we take out of our day of like, let's talk about something important about anything, it could be anything, and it's a free safe space, I use that word safe space, because the whole office is a safe space. So once you come through that door, like all ideas are on the table, nothing is stupid, nothing is out of bounds. And and and that's important to create that kind of safe and desire environment for experimentation and creativity, to thrive. As a designer, What's your relationship with collaboration? It's all it's 100% collaboration. And if you're not collaborating, like, you know, I mean, what one brain is not that good, but like a bunch of brains way better. Also, in order to be creative and innovative, it's about connecting things that aren't connectable or shouldn't be connected, like, you know, that bird that I saw this morning in this weird helicopter, and then meeting you guys. And you're talking about the smell. Now I have this idea in my head, but that took three people or four people to come up with those ideas doing an academy.
But you came up as a footnote.
And so I guess a lot of people struggle with the collaborative process, because, you know, we all should,
you know, I mean, that's, that's on them. So you have to remove ego, yeah, you can't have an ego. You can't collaborate with an agenda. You have to be totally neutral. And what's awesome about us is, as I mentioned, we all have young kids, I have a five year old is that five year olds in particular, you don't know this yet, but they just say whatever is real, like this salmon tastes weird. And like, my son was right, it wasn't good. So we thought it was out of restaurants like your kids, right? But what I what I mean is like, you have to remove the mask that you're wearing or you have to remove your ego Or like you, you can't be concerned like what other people are going to think of you or like having your feelings hurt. It's like, no, let's all throw out these ideas and work together. Because that's what's going to make a better project. I am not a genius. You're not a genius. Nobody's a genius. Even Einstein is not a genius. He was picking up on the context of what was happening around him. And so that's what we try to cultivate in the in the office here and even going out and even collaborating, and even talking to other architects and other designers, and we even actually go out and tour other people's projects under construction to see like, hey, that's
a really great idea. How do you find people's reception to that? Because I've really liked that approach of we can collaborate with anybody. Yeah, but I could imagine there's some people who have had some wins is solo operators or solo creatives that think No, no, I know it because I've had the past successes.
No, I'm still gonna say bs on that one. Yeah, what I think is great is that and they are all of our clients are repeat clients and they come back because of that collaborative process like because we work with them. We also ask strange questions that nobody's asked them before. But a year later, they'll be like, I'm still asking that same question. Like we're designing an entire warehouse district in the middle of the country. And the very first meeting we had with this developer, we asked the question, what is an awning? cannon? Kind of submarine? a submarine be an awning. And it was about how do you get people to come into the district? And how do you develop a language of a design language for an entire district all the way down to the lobby experiences? So you know, that starts with an awning and what you're going to see first so even a year later, he still talks about that question of like, what is he still trying to figure it out?
Did you did you have to learn that was there times in your life where you felt the friction of collaboration or where it didn't necessarily? You're wearing a mask, as you described? Yes. So
if, if you're in a space that's not a safe space, then it could be threatening or an end in intimidating to other people, if you're throwing out ideas, especially if they seem wild, like what is an awning is a submarine? Where it's not a it's not a wild? It's not a wild question. It's actually incredibly, hyper specific to humans, and how you're using space and what space feels like and the temperature of the hatch when you touch it and like, what's the air taste like? I mean, it's very important of how you go into a space. So I think it's very important to ask those questions. The the kind of training that I've tried to put myself through in terms of like, almost like a Buddhist regimen of like creativity, of like a religion, would be to remove what people think of me in order to be able to collaborate with with our clients or whoever we're working with, or even fabricators when we're doing custom furniture or whatever, right. So it's removing yourself removing your ego and that takes a lot of practice over time. But then also, if you surround yourself with the right people, They encourage you, they encourage that to happen. And that's what's great about working here at this office office entitled is that everybody's encouraged to think differently and be unique and creative. And everyone has equal input on all the projects.
We're in LA right now. You haven't lived here for your whole life. You like you were in New York.
Yeah, I mean, I'm just a kid from the Midwest. I was born in Kalamazoo, Michigan,
how important is location to creativity? So New York is great energy of New York. I feel creative. This
Oh, wow. Yes. Hundred percent agree. location has a huge impact on creativity, especially me. I tend to pick up on like the vibes and energies of the places that I'm in and I use that to my advantage in terms of like creative outputs. New York is super creative in a electricity that's just palpable that you can just walk down this bump into somebody and be like, oh, excuse me, hey, do you want to create create something together and they'll be like, okay, tonight Let's meet and like makeup a couch or design, a newer skyscraper that actually happens all the time. And so there's this energy there that you just never shut off. Like you're just everything you do. Like I would crush my bike all the time and run into parked cars because I'm looking at something I'm like, that's a great detail. crash, which is not good if you're pushing a stroller. tiny baby in there, but the baby safe. Nothing ever happens of the baby. So
New York is that do you think where you've had the most creativity or?
No, I think Los Angeles. Yeah, I'm super excited about that. And like love to be here. I've been here three years now. I was a little bit nervous moving here, because it's like vastly different than anything on earth. And like just being from the Midwest, Los Angeles seems like a foreign planet. I had never been here before. So it's a it's a little bit weird. There's cactuses, and they bloom all year and It seems like Fairyland of like Willy Wonka. But the creativity and the like, what people are doing here is fascinating. And the the mindset of experimentation and failure and testing and, and and inventiveness is so palpable, that that doesn't happen in New York in New York. It's like creative energy, and people are doing things. But in LA, it's like, there are no rules. Design wise, like you can do anything you want. As long as you have this, like great narrative, and you're testing and experimenting with things. Yeah, but there aren't any like rules about color or pattern or space or what the temperature supposed to be like, when you look at the door handle or like there's no rules at all. It's like, if you want to go and make that thing, go and make it like there's makers and fabricators and all over the place here. You just have to figure out where they are. Yeah, they're hiding.
I heard you use the phrase licking the details. What does that mean? And what are some examples of where you're licking the details that other people Might completely ignore.
Well, I don't like random things. But
I think it's important to have like, be engaged with the tactile experience of the spaces that you're creating, if you're making especially if you're making immersive environments, like you need to know what the temperature is, you need to know how the marble feels and what like what kind of marble is it? Is it silky? Is it rough? Is it smooth? Is it oil, like when you especially if you're going to set your cell phone down on like a marble surface? What does it sound like when the marble comes in contact with your, you know, iPhone, right? So it's important to me to touch everything before it's made. Like in a hotel, right? If you're making the side tables, or the amenity table, or the bed like how squishy is the mattress, so I'm going to go and jump on the mattress and I'm going to sit on it and sleep on it and jump on it with my son and be like, hey, do you like this mattress and he'll be like no, because he's gonna say it straight up, right? So I did like the marble and I've done Look the wallpaper for this hotel and in Portland, but you know, it pays off. When you look at the details. The hotel was shortlisted on Time magazine's Greatest 100 places to go this year and one most innovative hotel of the year. So, I mean, I feel like because I care so deeply about the experiences that people have when they're in the rooms and when they're in the hotel that I also feel like it's important that I need to be fully engaged in all the materials and the choices and how it feels as if I was also staying in the room. So yeah,
so you got someone who walks into a hotel room, say for instance, the one that won the award, I mean, as a Colima, gronk as a gronk. I'd walk in and I would wouldn't really understand anything I would just be experiencing right so I'll put my phone down like whatever. But I know that there's something going on where I would probably be disrupted if I felt a certain way. You would is that is that your job is what you say your job is to Identify the stuff people don't consciously pick up on. And then fine tuning that.
Absolutely. I think a lot of it has to do with like unconsciousness of how people are going to feel when they're when they're in the side of the space, should there
be no friction or is friction an important part of design?
guess it depends on what you mean by friction, especially in hotels, the friction might be a bad word of like that there's problems when a person comes into the hotel before they get to the guest room of like that's causing friction. So in that regard, you don't want any friction. But I would want you to set your phone down or like, for example, like I put leather on the bottom of this table, and you would never know that unless you like put your foot on it, which you might so then you'll be like, oh, wow, that feels good on my foot. And then you look at it, you're like that's not black leather. It's like navy blue, textured leather. It's very weird, right? So it's like these little secret details. Yeah, even the base of the lamp. Looks like pizza. concrete, but it's actually stained pink wood, because it's more natural. And so there's this in this particular hotel, that aesthetic was feminine Pacific Northwest. And that doesn't exist. That's all doesn't exist. I had to make that. And so I think that the idea of like, how do you invent a style and and how do you? How do you allow somebody to go into the room, they don't care what the style is, they just want to feel at home. And they want to feel comfortable walking around in their bare feet and jumping on the bed.
I mean, it's such attention to detail. And then there's a there's a bunch of designers architects that are doing that. Is it like they don't even care or what's the, what's the opposite approach to this.
the opposite approach would just be like you're churning out a bunch of rooms in a repetitive fashion and whether it's like budget conscious or you're just rolling out so many of the rooms, you just don't have the opportunity to like fine tune everything. single detail you can probably control a few. But I'm trying to control everything all the way down to the smell down to like what it feels if you're rubbing up against the wall, you know, I love it. Yeah. Or if your head is touching the headboard like you know the people are loving the headboard of this particular hotel. It's really cool. But also just a light sweet custom designed all the lights to the tiles are custom designed like everything.
What do you think quality and premium main?
Well, that's a good question. Like I think luxury doesn't need to be expensive, like a gold toilet doesn't necessarily mean luxury. I would rather put the bathtub in the middle of the room and let you like have a bath and watch the sunset at the same time. To me that's more luxurious than a gold bathtub. And so because that's what we're trying to be like big because like I would say like it's way better to have sex in your bathtub watching the sunset, which stuck in the bathroom like why am I in a small tiny ass room? Taking a bath right I should see something I should experiment with the world in a better way while I'm taking a bath. And so
what about like it from a user experience point of view, sometimes, like, I'll go to a amazing hotel with my girlfriend, but then the bathroom is very open. And so before you know it, you having to take a dump in that same area where you want to have this sort of intimate experience, how much you thinking about that user experience? Hundred percent thinking of exactly that
thing? Yeah, absolutely. You know, you you have to consider all those scenarios. And like, I guess, like, I would live them like, like, mentally, you know, like, I would put up a bunch of chairs and like tape office space in the office and see, like, is this close enough to sit next to somebody? Or does this create an intimate scenario? So I would reenact it in real life? You know, like as a mock up to be like, how does this play out? Right? Way to hotel rooms go wrong. Do you think what's like the the obvious thing when you walk into a hotel room, just gives you the shit?
No pun intended.
light switches lighting outlet locations like if somebody is like looking for an outlet that's a problem what's the
deal with I don't know if it's just the US but sometimes like the light switch is actually for a lamp and then there's a fucking master light and so then you can turn the master light off but all that sort of
stuff Yeah, I mean that that's there's like different like code code things of like what kind of lights you have to have on and stuff like that. But again, like when you when you first come in, like why am I seeing this sharp corner side of an amenity table or credit is a piece like that's not inviting to come in and just see the side of something and it's a sharp corner. So you know, in this hotel in Portland, the Widmark we are rounded all the edges of the Infinity table and it's actually as a hole cut out. And so you can see like wine and or sparkling water or something as like a little gift bag in the side of this thing. It's also curved. I was also raised by the totally insane father, who we made would sailboats and like everything is curved wood and we actually had to build all this stuff and so like all this kind of strange like sailboat making stuff and like weird construction projects that my dad would make me do just as influencing Yeah, and on all the projects and grew up racing sailboat, so you can't i can't get that out of my head. So it actually has a kind of a nautical theme to it if now that I told you that secret, because I haven't admitted that in different interviews but like if you look at the hotel now and think like an article, it's a boat,
boat hotel. Have you mentioned your son quite a few times and it's almost like that. naive approaches like neither like this or do like this. How do you what do you think we go wrong? Getting all the getting a bit jaded, not maybe speaking out about the things that we don't like or do like
a great question and I think this kind of ties a little bit about into my teaching philosophy as well because I taught for 10 years architecture, interior design and product design and Seeing these 20 somethings come in and being afraid to fail was terrifying me. And I was like our education system is crushing creativity out of our kids. And so I would actually bring my two he was too I would bring him into class and let them see him and let him see them. And not that I was trying to scare the crap out of my students, although I was but I would do it in a way where I was with them. Like I was one of them. So I was 100% honest with them, I would bail them out of jail. If they got arrested, they could I would give them my cell phone on the first day of class, call me anytime text me 24 seven, I will text you right back. And so for me to be on the level of like, I'm 100% committed if you are, I will give you 100% of me if you do, right. So a lot of that. And a lot of the initial couple weeks of classes is a lot of frustration from the students because nobody ever said spoke to them that way or swore in class. They never seen a professor jump on the table and start dancing and screaming. But it was about eliminating universal preconceptions. And that sounds so easy. But basically, you have to forget everything that you were that you learned. And what's great about having a five year old is that he doesn't know shit. He's stupid, right? They're dumb, like kids are dumb. They don't know what they don't know. And so they asked the most basic questions, and those are the best questions. Yeah, even the statement of like the salmon tastes weird. You're right. And like, I should have said that, but I didn't because I was afraid to upset the chef or something. Or like, I didn't want to offend anybody, but like, I mean, there are of course, social norms if you don't want to. Yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah. So that one is a fine line. But the idea is that you see things new, try to see things new from a child's eyes or a child's perspectives and you and the world will open up to you in a totally different way.
So then what do you think about schooling and classrooms in general As a way to try and unlock the those types of things?
that's a great question. I would be a huge advocate to go around and talk with every like public school in America across America to encourage creative thinking and creative problem solving. Because in the future, I think the one skill that you're going to need to know to get any job is creative problem solving. Anybody, you can learn the trade, you can learn anything, you can learn long you can learn how to be a doctor. But creative problem solving is hard to teach, especially if those skills are crushed out of your soul and you're a kid. So playing through experimentation and playing and learning while you play and play based learning and play based experimentation. And this idea of like, nothing wrong with failing I fail every day. I just do it fast. Yeah, because I'm not afraid of failing. So I just fail a bunch of times. And then because the first couple of things you do are shit. So you got to fail quickly get those out of the way. And then the really good ideas come that come in later. So it's about That kind of thinking process. So the fear of failure is crushing people's creativity. I would say 100%. Yeah, we've got a young 20 somethings in the room. Mr. 97, a producer, he, he said before that he doesn't think he's creative. What do you think? I mean, you've just met him a house looking pretty cool.
Can you? Does it look cool? I mean, there is there is that vibe that everyone is creative? Or everyone has that and I just need to unlock it.
But then there's some people who think I'm not creative. What do you think about that school of thought?
I think everyone is creative. I think that because of society, being afraid of new ideas, that the social norms would be like, yeah, maybe you're not creative like Albert Einstein, or, or like Andy Warhol, you might be super creative, like folding your laundry that I never thought about, like I had to watch this YouTube video on how to fold the fitted sheet 20 times because I couldn't figure it out. I still
can't do a double Windsor, because I watch and just copy Tie. And the bow
tie is hard to tie it in reverse through YouTube videos, right? But I think you're right. I can't do it. But I think people are creative. They're just creative in different ways. That's why I love to collaborate and the TEDx talk I gave, which I joke, it's like how to make a baby. The title is actually like, collaborative opportunities are everywhere. So collaborate on how to make dinner, right? And like, that's creative, like some people are more creative in like how they cook. That's creativity. You know, it's not, it doesn't have to be for design or for one thing or two, to invent something. It's just about how you think about things. So you can be creative folding laundry or a great event riding a bike or crashing a bike or Flint River,
which something you've identified, that's not your area of strength.
I would say before we get into that before I admit all my vulnerable. I would say just watch any kid. Any every single child that I've ever seen now is 1000. percent creative. No filters whatsoever. They're driving crazy things. Yeah, weird trees like what there's no rhyme or reason or, or right or wrong. That's a creative and for what, what? What that shows me is that there's an innate thing and human beings that they are 100% creative people are humans, humans are 100% creative entities, and it so what happens to you then then society and culture must crush that out if you think that you're not creative later in life, because that's BS.
You know, I get a whole bunch of paintings. I get a rock from my son with splash paint on it,
But I think I think you're someone who really knows your strengths, and to know your strengths. You also have to know where you don't shine. How do you identify the areas where you don't shine?
Well, I wasn't prepared for that question. But sorry. I would say like
I would, I will admit it here for the first time ever on the interviews ever, but I feel very vulnerable, a lot like I, I, I'll put myself out there as far out to into the nether region as possible, and then like tether back into reality. So I'll try to push the boundaries with what I'm working on. And the clients as far out as I can go, sensing that they get uncomfortable, and that's a really exciting space to be in. And then we can tailor it back. You can't, you can't start small and then later try to switch it and say, Hey, what about this option, then you can't go backwards. So you have to start out far out. And that then it makes me I'm, I'm vulnerable and not in that state and I feel vulnerable 100%. So I think that vulnerability allows me to operate in a way where it It removes the ego, because I'm letting I'm asking for what do you think and I'm a collaborator. Being with other people and I'm, I'm challenging and I'm constantly asking questions. And I think that allows for design opportunities to flourish.
How to people charge or make money through creativity?
Well, there's, there's different ways it's just different face of Georgia. It just depends on the project. We charged I guess,
is it like so I guess for someone who's just getting started where it's like, it's, it's not necessarily tangible, like, in the early days, there is that sense that you need to do like small tasks, right? It's very, very basic. Do you remember grappling with how am I going to do this thing that I love to do but also make cash so I can feed myself?
So I think that's a trick question from your earlier question of like, what are your like flaws and I think like running a business, not my strength. Yeah. And so I love to be part of it. collaborative where we can all like help each other and learn like as a group. And and we learn from each project and how to do things differently and run things more efficiently as we go in our profession is such an old school profession that really hasn't evolved very much in terms of like a business. So I think, you know, we're really like looking to radically kind of rethink what the business of design is and how that works. So whether it's charging hourly or project based or even based on the value that you add, a lot of people are doing different things. I love the value kind of Proposition where it's not really based on hourly or how long it's going to take you but the value that you give to that project because of your unique skill set. Yeah.
And you've got a I feel like a strong spirit and that be a bunch of younger people who look up to you and see what you're doing. I guess you're in a in a position now, where you can be a bit fucking crazy, a bit wacky. You can tell clients Hi, no, this is how I wanted to do it. How did you grapple work with the early stages where it's like this is Brooks fucking out there having fun with the realities of being an early designer, someone who's just sort of getting started.
Well, I think it's important, especially for me to try to, like experiment and do things, even if I know they're going to fail. Yeah. Like, I remember my mom giving me all this advice and saying, like, don't do that. And I would be like, Thanks, Mom. I hear you. I have to do it anyways, and I know it's going to fail, but I just need to feel what it feels like for it to fail. Yeah. And so like, I trust you and I know you're right. You gotta let me do it anyways, even if I break my arm, I'm still going to jump out of the tree. You learn the hard way. I gotta learn that but being part of a collective and a place like office on tada with with so many talented people. We're all able to do it together and that allows for the safety of like, great ideas and great business strategies and practice. And like thinking of projects holistically, that's what's allowed us to grow so fast, because we're only like five or six years old at this point. And we've grown so fast, and the scale of the projects that we're working on are so radically huge at this point, that doesn't normally happen until, like you're in your 80s, to be able to be working on projects of the size and magnitude. And it's, it's so exciting. But I think that's because the talent and the collectiveness and the direction that the principles are going with the firm. It's just so so powerful.
Where do you like to spend most of your time in the creative process?
I mean, I like to interject at all different stages of the projects, obviously, like the conceptual phase at the very beginning, like brainstorming is super exciting for me. But I also like to see like how that gets physically translated into real things and made and so that because that's also very difficult and also very fun, and also very creative. But my my background is also super technical, and my dad's an engineer, my Brothers engineer engineer. And so there is this love of figuring stuff out, also. So those are also exciting. So it's all it's all exciting for me. I love the fast paced nature, but also like, you also need to stop, take a breath and like think on things for a second. And that's important to kind of just like build that into the design process where you just like, Nope, I'm going to just like let this percolate for a second.
What are you obsessed about at the moment? Oh, what am
I obsessed about? Well, looking details.
I think I'm obsessed of
like, like a moat. Like, how can I invoke emotions to things so like, this idea of nostalgia? I really, like I was so against nostalgia, and I've won a deed and noun for it. And like, I love the fact like I recognize like, that was a limitation like why am I stuck on this stage? This tells you like what's
what do you think it was?
Well, I thought the for my own, you know, my own detriment. I was like, I thought nostalgia would hold me back creativity or great creatively or in a way to innovate, because that was because it looked like that I was stuck. Yeah, looking back, and like, somehow the past was holding me back. Yeah. And I don't want I don't live with regrets. Like, I don't have any regrets. Because I also think that if you have a regret, then then you're closing something. And I want to be open to things, even if it's a repeat. So I thought nostalgia would just be like, Oh, you can't that's just gonna hold me back. I wanted to make new things. Yeah. And I was like, I was really pushing the boundaries, but also like, establishes a really nice kind of feeling. It's a good it's a good emotion. It allows you to connect to something in a deeper way. And I think those deep connections are super important when you're making spaces and and and that idea of how people will feel in those spaces
we missed out about like from your path. You're sitting next to one of the most
well, it's a it's a weird question because we moved around so much so many things, you know, so many times growing up that I never had one house. So if you ask me like where I'm from I it's hard or super hard to answer. I just say all over the Midwest because we moved everywhere and around in the Midwest, and I never lived in one place longer than like three or four years. What would you do when you got home from school? The first thing that you would do when you get home?
nostalgic question. Yeah,
I'm gonna do a juggle.
three balls or more. Yeah, four. I was doing four or five. I was doing rubber chickens. And, you know, so I was kind of nerdy. Not I was not cool. And I my mom is so crazy and super fun. Yeah, yeah. But this is not how you get girlfriends. Don't walk to school juggling. If any teenagers are out there listening, don't do that. So but I was like, Hey, Mom, what should I do? And she would just come up with the greatest things ever. She would she would be like, you know, buy a Volkswagen Beetle and fix it up. And so like, well, we did that one time with my friends. We bought an old Volkswagen Beetle I was 15 I didn't couldn't drive. And we just bought out and we're we worked on it for two or three years. And then I'd be like, Mom, what should we do today? And she would be like, Well, why don't you teach yourself to juggle? So we would spend like four months learning how to juggle and juggling with our friends and when we
didn't have YouTube teacher.
You had to teach yourself. Yeah, or you had to go and talk to somebody. Yeah. Can you show me how to juggle? And there's not too many like juggling circus people in the Midwest but like, you know, you can find them
what sort of fast food they have in the Midwest fast food. Yeah.
Well, I mean, there was McDonalds and stuff but we never ate there. We always just stayed at home and my mom would ring like a cowbell and we would all run home Really? What would she cook? Wash so she's Southern so she would cook super Southern food like fried chicken rice and gravy and like a lot of biscuits and just like heavy delicious food, love it. You know that's very nostalgic like yeah, always eating at the dinner table and telling about our day. So that was very important to me like that kind of like connection at the at the table. Has that translated into your parenting?
Do you think?
Yeah, so yeah, Fitz and I, we eat dinner at the table, but we draw as a table also. And there's no rules of like, Hey, if you're full, then I'm not going to force you to eat all the food on your plate. Like I was. I mean, he he's a great eater, so no, no worries. But I also like, redraw weird stuff and color things in and like, maybe during dinner, we'll just start painting our faces with meat. And it turns into a paint fest.
Moving around, you said every three, three, so you haven't lived anywhere longer than three years. Do you think that like your past and that moving around has, it has been a place of inspiration for you in the creative field that you're in?
Totally? Yeah, I would think just being able to see so many different places and what I liked or didn't like or even even, even like design aside, just being like, I know there's another place other than this, that I will belong to and so I've discovered their Where's this place called Chicago and I was like, Oh, this is the thing, like, I'm gonna move there. And then I discovered a place there's a place called New York City. I was like, wow, this is a fun place. I'm going to move there.
We asked the cab driver the other day, what do you think of a lie? And she said, I don't know anything else.
Yes, it is a good answer.
That's a good answer. But if you it's like a being a writer, like to be a writer, you got to go and do stuff like you have to live and like, you know, you have experiences and I would say the same thing with designers. You know, and that was the number one thing I was trying to get my students like, you have to go out and do things every day, go and do something. I randomly moved to Paris. So like, from like one week to the next I sold all of my earthly belongings and just like packed up my bags and moved to Paris I was in my 20s didn't speak French didn't know anyone didn't have anywhere to live. I just showed up in droves ago airport. What inspired
you to do that?
Just like I needed to see how another country taught architecture. I was in third year architecture school. And I was just like, I gotta get out of here. So, I moved to Paris and it was crazy. And yeah, it was difficult but also like I went out every single day, 365 days out walking around, and or I would hop on a train and go to another country because you can just do that. Harris go to a different religion. Were you there for a year? About a year and a half? Yeah. And so just like, you know, even just like arriving, I got a migraine headache in the airport, threw up everywhere, which was a great arrival for Charles de Gaulle. Yeah, welcome to Paris, you know, and then but I figured out I got downtown, and my school is at the Bose arts. So I went there, it was fucking closed. Nobody was there. I went early to try to learn French, right? And there was closed, so I didn't know what to do. So I just went to the cafe next door, and I didn't have anything to do. So I just sat there. I was reading and drinking coffee like you do. And so I just started, I heard music. So I started dancing on the sidewalk. And then somebody started yelling at me from above, like out the second story window in French. And I was like, I don't know what you're saying. And so he's like, Can you dance? And I was like, Yeah, of course. Like, I'm dancing. Like, he's like, Can you dance all the time? I was like, Yeah, he's like, I need you. Dance at my nightclub. And I was like, wait a minute, like, I know I'm Fresh Off the Boat, but like what's going on here? And he's like, I need you to dance on my nightclub. Do you encourage other people to dance like you dance first? I was like, Okay, I need a place to stay. I'm homeless. I just got here. I need an apartment. He's like, I have an apartment. You stay in my apartment. I'll pay you you dance in the nightclub. And so now I'm a professional dancer.
What kind of dancing was it just just fun dancing.
I get people to get out on the dance floor and then I got to stay for free in that apartment for a couple of weeks.
We've talked a lot about traveling and sort of the it's almost a persona or an energy or courage that it summons up. It sounds like you went over there and it's, you know, thrust you into a world that was not like at home was that is that fair to say? No. Dancing Beckett? I mean, I was
dancing everywhere. I was I was still terrified. Right? I mean, not it's scary. I was scared you know, I was didn't know what I didn't have any life experiences.
I didn't know what's going on. No right into it I was totally right into it and
it's funny because that's how I saw dancers
dance like nobody's watching that's a real thing that's what I was doing in Paris like off the sidewalk
so what do you what do you think about traveling and sort of the energy it provokes in that sort of courage it brings and how do you channel it back on you living in LA it's home you can sink into some habits and just you know come comfortability how do you how do you get out of that? And do you get out of that?
Well, I think just me as like a human like I I do things I go out and look for trouble basically trouble I can get into bed the better Yeah. And that and I mean that like a good thing like, like this idea of like rebels right and rebel thinking but you know, rebels have this kind of bad connotation like they're like messing up things, but I believe that there if you look at it from a different person, They're just challenging the norms. And they're there. Maybe they do it in and in a way that has a negative connotation. But if you think of rebel thinking in terms of design and experimentation, it's incredibly insightful, how to approach design, because you have to be a super expert with tons of training to be a rebel, but then totally disregard all of your experience and training and to approach things with totally like kid eyes. And then you'll come up with a new, a new idea. But it's because you have tons of experiences that allows you to think differently. If you're just an expert, and you just have like college training, and no experience, then you're not going to like come up with a totally radical new solution. You're just going to base it on your own limited experience. But if you have tons and tons of experience, you're going to come up with like radically new ideas. So the more you can go out and travel and and meet people and hear other people's stories, the more experiences that you have, then the more design ideas you're going to come up
What's something you've what's a piece of travel or something that you've done that you've looked for the rate to great reward when you've gone I've got the great idea based on doing that.
Like, what was the most amount of trouble? I
got? I just Yeah, yeah, something that got you a great reward and the other side
you rebel minds? Yeah. Yeah.
Well, I would say there was these there was this project.
Okay, so Showtime, the team, like the network, Showtime. They do this charity house called the Showtime show house. And they'll choose a designer and they'll give you a TV show that they have on their show on their channel, though, they'll assign you a TV show. And then you design a space around the theme of that show. So they asked me to come in and give a pitch. And they didn't tell me what the show was. Yeah, they just
want to pitching by the way I'm good at pitcher. Yeah.
So So I was like, okay, so So we designed a bunch of really weird things just randomly because I didn't know what we were going to do. But I had this idea that I wanted to simulate more. So I wanted to make a room to simulate multiple personality disorder, which is an audible disease. So you can't distinguish the voices in your head. And so yeah, then you know, that Bob Dylan video where he has everything written on key cards, and he just throws them down. Yeah, I think it's like subterranean homesick blues. So we did a whole presentation, we hand drew all the sketches on these big cue cards with words, kind of sinks to a song and then we came in playing, I'll be your mirror by the Velvet Underground, and then I threw all the key cards down on the floor, kind of like singing the presentation. And then we walked out of the room. That was it, like walked in, played this big performance space and then walked out and they're like, You're hired, and they assigned, they assigned us the United States of Tara, with Toni Collette from Australia. And so we created this room to submit multiple multiple personality disorder but it was very scary and terrifying and causing a lot of trouble because it's very strange. But everybody was excited about it. We created an avatar we we invented our own tracking software. So the avatar on the TV was a Tony call that look alike. My friend looks like Toni Collette so we filmed her. They actually gave us Toni Collette. They said you can use her but she was filming somewhere in Australia so we couldn't use her I
was driving down the street and I looked up it's Toni Collette yeah hatred, you know, but she's amazing.
I love I ended up meeting her later but separate Sorry about that. So so there's a I never turned the TV will follow you around and facial recognition software recreated at that time, the world's longest free spanning CNC Woods structures with puzzle joints. So I think it was 35 feet at that time, which was the longest free span with no hardware. It was just self joined like a puzzle. And then we painted it chroma key blue, which is what they use in films to green screen people. It's blue paint, actually. And then everyone had wireless phones and I collaborated with my friend Daniel Perlin, an amazing sound designer and an inner immersive environmental environment designer. And so he created all these weird noises in your head. So you're wearing wireless headphones, everyone in the room was isolated because everyone had headphones, and everyone had different sounds in their ears. So and then you were in this weird room with this woman following you around on TV. So it's, that's what it feels like to have multiple personality disorder. And it caused a lot of trouble. But it was the favorite room of the of the event. So they loved it so much that they asked us to do the top the roof, which was just the bar. And so what was beautiful about the wireless headphones is if you kept them on and you went upstairs, it changed to a silent dance party. Right? So it's dancing. So everybody was dancing upstairs. And then my mom comes to the opening and my mom is wildly entertaining way more than me and so she's told the show they're like, Oh, yeah, Brooks his mom gave a shit about they all hung out with my mom, which was even cooler.
Have you got a mini me like he's your son
like Yeah, I would say, Yeah, pretty much. He's pretty much like both of us in like, just like a free spirit. Like, he'll dance anywhere. He, he's like he has drawn he plays drums and guitar and harmonica and saxophone, like, at the same time, like all like simultaneously it's pretty funny. And then but he's like, into art and painting and dancing. And he told me yesterday he wants to be the singer in a band, like the leader of the band, electric guitar. So it's like okay, let's we gotta start working on that. So that's the beauty like there's no limitations. There's no rules just do just like didn't Kurt I'm just here to encourage him to just be as free as possible.
Does it scare you watching him for the future and what the world's becoming and what and where it's going or is it excite you? There's lots of possibilities.
You know what I was thinking a little bit more in the cynical spectrum when he was a like an infant. But now I'm thinking like, this is great. The world is great. You can do all these things and and I'll help him do it. It's scary to think like that some of the creativity might get crushed out of him. So I'm trying to keep it as open as possible now, but you know, some people think the world is scary now and I think it's just like so much fun to be alive right now in this world. Yeah, it's it's a fascinating, fascinating time to be a creative person, especially in LA. It's just a crazy building boom going on here. It's just Wild Wild projects, huge scale projects. The Olympics are coming here. The World Cup is coming here. And all the filming production studios are moving here, apple, Netflix, Amazon, everybody. It's just an amazing creative mecca of the universe, unlike anything else, the rebel thinking the pushing back on rules, where does structure fit into your life? Well, I try not to have any structure, but kids need structure. So obviously like there is like some structure sometimes
you Where do you find the structure? Do you wake up at the same time every morning? Oh,
no. I mean, I tried desperately not to do that. So every day when I take notes, I take notes differently. So some days I take notes on post it, sometimes I write it on my body, sometimes it's a notebook. Because if you do something repetitively, then you then it becomes unconscious, and then you're not aware of it. So if you have to make notes differently every day, how do you keep track of all your nights?
Is the idea
it's kind of like you don't you know things, things move fast. And so like I just write the notes to remember to do something and then I do it and then and then you get done. It's done. So but you know, I I try to do different things at different times of the day each day, but I also try to set a time like heads down, don't bother me, like I got I'm in the zone, like, Don't mess with me.
So do you have certain rituals or routines then? No,
no, no, the ritual would be is is that I approach my ritual would be I approach everything as if it's a project So even taking a bath with my son, I'll be in the bathtub with him. And maybe we have a bread bag, an empty bread bag cuz like, you know, maybe we don't have any toys. So then we'll fill it up and we'll use it as a punching bag because it just like funny and like, what is water splashing around the bathroom? Hell yeah. But is that a problem? No. So you know, it's just like, have fun, make some bubbles. Punch some bread bags.
Let's try that one. Yeah. I love that.
What about driving around? So like, obviously, that being previously New York East Coast, I guess people driving less LA, you sort of need a car? How does that change the way you think about ideas and create?
Well, that's a good question. I grew up driving cars. Not good at them. I crushed a lot. When I was younger than being in New York, I hadn't had a car for 16 years. I did have a car for a couple months. My sister bought his BMW for $1. David's me had it on the Upper West Side. I got a ticket every day, sometimes twice a day. So after like $1,000 in tickets in like a week you're like no way Forget it, you know, get rid of the car. So I gave it back to my sister. Why? What was the ticket to move your car? Every line for hours? Yeah, sure to change sides of the street or alternate street side of the street parking, and so on. So I did get I ended up getting a motorcycle, which I think that's maybe more interesting story of how I met Christopher Walken with on the motorcycle bus. So but now to back to your point in LA driving. I kind of use it as a safe, meditative moment where I'll listen to pop creative podcasts and other podcasts that says a great time to be just because it's an hour commuting from Los Angeles to Culver City. And so it's weird to have a car. It also feels very liberating and free because we'll just drive like randomly to Ohio or to Palm Springs or Joshua Tree just like randomly like people think it's so far but it's like this It's only an hour or two hours like that's nothing like we can go there back like I'll go to Ohio for dinner and come back. And so I love that the freedom that that gives plus in in LA in 45 minutes you're in a totally new paradise. You never have to go on vacation because you're in vacation. But the car I mean, that book on the road by Karabakh just had such a profound influence on me I just like love that idea of like freedom of just like and I'm a Sagittarius also so just like being able to go anywhere I want at any moment is important to me.
What you've been to Melbourne few times Yeah. What's any I mean that's our that's our hometown any any good stories any kind of creative inspire that's come out of Australia.
Well, first of all, Australia in general is just fascinating. Design wise, just like all the design experimentation that's going on there is wild when I was incredibly touched and moved by the the amount of thoughtfulness that went into all the design that I saw there. And Melbourne in particular, just because I ended up there and like all the people that I met, were mostly in Melbourne, super fascinating, very experimentation and creative group of people like la in the way. And it's not like I don't give an F. But it's like, let's try stuff because we're in Australia, and we're far away from anything. So you don't you don't care. You're just going to end you're just like, well, we're, we love food and coffee and like live to live life. Like that's the people and that's the attitude I got there. Even so, like random strangers I met were like, hey, let's collaborate and let's make a music Music Festival. And so I ended up doing that three or four years now. It's called swell Music Festival. It's just like an experimental, choose your own weird interactive, how to interact with music in general, but also like how to act with musicians and bands and it's a super experimental like on the cusp of cutting edge, how to listen to music in a totally new way. It's really it's really cool.
I need more random saying to me Let's collaborate. But then I might, I might think this person might be bullshitting you how do you know when someone says let's collaborate? And you go yes or no? How do you know when to say yes and no?
Random? Uh huh.
So like, I'm not totally into astrology, but I just had my star chart read. I don't know anything of what it means. But what I'm getting from it was, I'm a, like, all of my signs are heading towards all being Sagittarius. With some, I think my moon is in Pisces. So what I was told was, is that I pick up on the energies of the people that are around me. Yeah. And so I feel like when somebody is like, hey, do you want to collaborate? I can tell right away if they mean it or if they don't mean it. And plus, like, if you have a second meeting or a third meeting, then you'll know right away so like, say you want to collaborate and then like, just have a follow up meeting and then you'll know how serious people are. But I think people already have a sense for me of like, I'll do it like I'll do anything once. No matter what it is, so I'm totally game with collaborating on anything. Shoes. I did make a pair of pair of shoes based on like sound so the shoes would move around while you walked around based on the sounds of the environments that they were in with United nude and like other like weird collaboration. So yeah, I mean, if you're going to come to me, it'd be like you want to collaborate. I'm going to say yes.
I'll think of an idea and then I'll be giving you a message.
Before before the episode started. You grabbed your phone and put it onto your desk. How has the connectedness and phones change the way that you create will live life.
You know, I like say, I like the ability to share ideas fast with random people in the office or outside of the office friends will be like, hey, check this out, hey, check this out. Or even just like people in the office are like Brooks, I saw this, check that you know this. And it's so great to be able to see and share ideas fast. We don't use them in terms of like inspiration, per se, of like, Oh, look at all these images. And I'm going to just turn the design into these images will use like emotions and feelings and ideas that we get from the images. But then, you know, we have discussions about him and, and we, you know, we kind of like iterate from there, but it's a great starting point, and a way to share ideas quickly, which didn't happen before. Even clients and this is a really unique way of operating of like clients are texting us like the Gone are the days you'd spend three months putting a huge presentation together. And the presentation is like six hours long. It's like no, we're present Every two weeks, intermediate, quick, fast. So we can do things much faster and much, much quicker. And so when when clients are sending you Instagram images, through direct met direct messaging, Instagram, it's just a faster way of communicating and I think it moves and pushes the boundaries faster and further quicker. It's intense. Everything becomes more intense that way, but I believe it, it's, it pushes the boundaries quicker. And it allows for everyone to feel that they're being that they're collaborating with a team and not just like one person
have you had to create limitations around it, or I guess if you're having that stimulus, like I guess you're into a lot of input just constantly having input and stimulus. If you've got a noisy client, who might not necessarily be providing the best inputs. Can you just sort of filter sell filter that in real time or do you have mechanisms to control Your inputs?
I mean, that's a good question. I think all like, like, just give it to me and I'll filter it you know, like just I think all all input is good input. And you know, this idea of like a win lose scenario, right? That's what people talk about win lose. I haven't found a scenario where the lose scenario cannot be flipped to a win. So in any given moment, I'm going to try to take the win lose and make it a win win. Everyone benefits this way. So if you just go around with your life and your life now and like your everyday like just think, Oh, this is a win lose, like just flip the lose and it's a win win and then everyone has so much happier
that way. How do you find out if you're in the middle of a pitch? Are you speaking to clients? How do you identify when it is that win lose and how would you adjust?
Well, I mean, ultimately, like the the pitches can be Win Win pitches and you still not selected for the project so that and that's fine too. You know, it just the projects take a long time. So you also need to vibe with the people And like the the the personalities all it's a lot like matchmaking I think when you are working with with with clients, I think of it as like a matchmaker in a way. But in terms of like recognizing the lose scenarios, I think it's pretty, it's pretty easy because you're like, why is there friction going on here? Like, if you're asking for this, and I'm trying to deliver that, if I think it's just a communication issue of like, I didn't communicate it correctly, or your your wishes weren't communicated to us correctly. And so it's just about fine tuning our, our method of communicating with each other our idea, so I'll try to just like, well, I hear what you're saying, but like, did you think about this, or I'm hearing this is that what you said? So it's just like kind of reiterating what the clients are saying and switching it.
Do you think? time restrictions say on a project conducive to you know, nailing a creative concept so time expands to the The task expands to the time assigned, you have a short period of time. Can you still do great work in the short period of time?
The answer is yes.
Time, time, time, time, time time. So sometimes the more time is not good, then you didn't you you lose focus. Sometimes short amounts of time are really good. But it's a very intensive. I mean, it's like that story about Picasso doing the sketch on a napkin for this guy in like 10 seconds. And then the guys like, how much do you want for it? And because it was like 20 million or whatever, and he's like, but it took you five seconds, you know, he's like, but it took me my whole life to draw that for you. Right. So a lot of it is like that, like, the relative newness of time doesn't matter. You're the same creative, like I'm not going to be less creative. And because I have less amount of time. It's just, it's just the willingness to be intense about it up front. us the process. moves so fast now, it's time really isn't a considerable considerable factor the expectation you're doing the same amount of work in this in this in the faster amount of time now, that's just the norm. And unfortunately but also it's six it's exciting, but it's just the intensity level goes way up.
Personal Branding or personal brand, do you think is it a dirty phrase? Or do we embrace it?
Well, I think brand is important so people can understand like what services and what difference you different differentiates you from other other offices? know i don't i don't think that's a dirty word at all. I think it's super helpful like you know what you're going to get when you go to Apple and you know what you're going to get if you go to, you know, the gap or something.
So what about like the personal level, so I guess you you've got your business, but then you've got you as an individual. Yeah. How much of the things come natural to you and this is just these are the glasses that I wear and this is The blazer that I have on versus this is what Brooks would wear. This is what I'm what this is what I'm wanting to communicate to people. Yeah.
Well, I think the beauty of of office untitled, in particular is like, you're encouraged to just be you. Like, we would never like crush people's identity or their own creative freedoms. Because what that would be limiting that would be like putting blinders on. Right? And so we don't want to do that. You know, I'm just, I'm just born this way. And so like, yeah, I have this funny jacket on and like, because that's just the way that I like to draw jacket. I mean, it's like a silk smoking jacket. Right? But like with weird Japanese tattoos on I couldn't pull it off.
I couldn't lie just because I get hot very quickly. Yeah. Is it like two places and stuff become issues in LA,
are you well, layers are important. So leather is is really great. And that's the main reason I moved here so I can wear leather.
I want to hear the story of Christopher Walken.
Okay, okay. Okay. So well, you talking about what is a car mean to you? And it's really more about a motorcycle and I grew up racing sailboats with my dad. He started racing when I was three, and like so being on a sailboat is very philosophical. And that sounds weird. I know. But like, it's very quiet. You're following the you're chasing the wind, basically, you're watching the wind move around on the water, and then you chase it to try to go faster. So it's very Zen. And it's very philosophical. It's very beautiful to me. Also, being from the Midwest. Being out on the water being pushed around by the wind also was very scary, but in a beautiful way, like, it felt like flying. Then I'm living in New York, and I have a younger brother and I go out to Connecticut and my family's lives out there. And I was like, his name's wills, like will teach me how to ride a motorcycle. And so he did haha. And then I just took it and drove it back to the city the same day, like I just stole it from him and drove back to New York City. So now I have a motorcycle. New York City, which is crazy because I live on the Upper West Side, I'm wearing leather pants. I have a motorcycle. That's not the vibe of the Upper West Side. I'm I'm standing out so everyone in the neighborhood knows me. There. That's Brooks, you know, he doesn't motorcycle. Okay, so I'm driving around. I'm on the motorcycle, leather pants. I don't fit in. I went to Columbia, for my masters in architecture. And so that's why I live up there on the Upper West Side. Plus the boat basin on 82nd Street is like 100 feet from my apartment. So I ended up sailing sailboats on the Hudson and giving tours I'm a captain. So I have my captain's license. My friend has a 42 foot sailboat. So I'm sailing of giving tours after work around the Statue of Liberty, blah, blah, the sailboat so that's super funny. So anyways, so I have the motorcycle and I'm just sitting on my street. When you start the motorcycle, you warm it up for a second. So I'm sitting on the motorcycle, I'm warming it up. And then I get this tap on my shoulder of this like man hand I can tell because it's like a tough tap on my hand. And he's like, Hey kitty boy, what's up and I was So I turned around is Christopher Walken. And I was like, hell Hey, Chris, what's up as I turned off the motorcycle, and he's like, Hey, I seen you around and I was like, Okay. Okay. I hope that's okay. Good, a good thing. And he's like, Yeah. Do you live here? And I was like, Yeah, I live right there across the street and he's like, you got a motorcycle. You don't fit in around here, do you? And I was like, No, you know, Chris, no, I don't fit in. And he's like, so I live right here. And I was like, okay, cool, you know, and it's right there right in front of his house. And his brownstone. He's like, you want to come up for a glass of wine, and I was like, you're not gonna cut me up into little pieces and eat me. Are you? Cuz like, I was terrified. She might do that. I don't know. Like, he's been in
the face with this already. Yeah, yeah.
Exactly. So I was so terrified, but also like, Yeah, dude, of course. So he brought me in and like, gave me a tour of his house, which is crazy awesome, because he has all these like weird things from different movies. So it's like, definitely a place to cut people up and eat them. Like that's the place to do.
Maybe you wouldn't think of famous guys gonna do that? Yeah, no, I would not he wouldn't.
So he's giving me this tour. And then he he, his wig maker lives next door. So and they're like, come join the brownstones. And he's like, oh, come over to check it out. And I was like, This is weird, because now I'm having Silence of the Lambs flashback because it looks like if you've never seen somebody make wigs, they make them with real human here and it's like a lumen. And it looks like they're going to cut you up into you and then put you on the loom and make a wig out of you. Even more terrified. So I was like, I'm never coming out of this place alive. Like you've taken me. And I've never get to see the light of day but no, they didn't eat me and I was here talking to you now.
That's great week. makki. I mean, is that a common thing? Christopher Walken wears a week is that?
I don't know. I mean, I can answer it when
you're talking about podcast that you listen to what, what are some that you you enjoy?
So right now I'm listening to Dolly Parton. America. It's amazing. I love her so much to She's amazing. And it's a fascinating insight into her and how she everyone loves Dolly Parton. Everyone doesn't matter who you are or where you're from, or what color your skin is or where you came from, or if you're an immigrant or not like everyone loves all the apartment. It's amazing. And why is that? And that's what the podcast is kind of about. Yeah. So I'm listening to that. And I'm listening to kitten brain on NPR, which is a fascinating podcast. And I also love radio lab. is another Those are my top ones.
Yeah. Lovely. Well, thank you so much for giving us the full It feels like the Brooks experience. Yeah, getting the tour getting to see both toilets getting to see out the back with the 3d printing.
A photo of us in the toilet sounds weird, but I think we need to Yeah, at least for the photo we post Do
you have any plans of coming back to Australia anytime soon? No.
I would like Come back, I will probably do another music festival called swell. You know, I actually haven't actually gotten to go to any of the music festivals just because like I had my son and like something kept coming up. So I kept kept missing it, but I would like to go back if we do another one. Otherwise, like, come back for Design Week and see what's going on.
Thanks for having us in the Coachella room.
Yes. Thank you so much. I'm honored to be here today and I appreciate the time. Thanks so much, folks. It's a daily talk show if you've enjoyed the show, feel free to share it on Instagram and the stories tag us up. Feel free to emails as well. Hi the daily talk show.com otherwise was saying Mr. Guys Hey