#514 – Targa Sahyoun On Creative Collaboration & Intuition/
- November 12, 2019
Targa Sahyoun has worked with some of the biggest stars in the music industry as a Creative Producer. Some of Targa’s work includes producing the music video for Katy Perry’s ‘Never Really Over’, commissioning Lewis Capaldi’s ‘Someone You Loved’ along with work for Halsey, Niall Horan, and Calum Scott.
On today’s episode of The Daily Talk Show, we discuss:
– What it means to be a creative producer
– The consumption of music content
– What makes a successful artist
– Internships and persistence
– Living in NYC and LA
– Following your intuition
– Managing stakeholders
Targa on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/targatargs/
Email us: firstname.lastname@example.org
Send us mail: PO BOX 400, Abbotsford VIC 3067
The Daily Talk Show is an Australian talk show and daily podcast by Tommy Jackett and Josh Janssen. Tommy and Josh chat about life, creativity, business, and relationships — big questions and banter. Regularly visited by guests and gronks! If you watch the show or listen to the podcast, you’re part of the Gronk Squad.
This podcast is produced by BIG MEDIA COMPANY. Find out more at https://bigmediacompany.com/
It's a daily talk show and we are in Los Angeles.
We're in the Capitol Records building. And we're here with Tiger
Josh was rehearsing before so he was really proud. I probably should have probably should have said that I've been preparing. Well, welcome
to The Daily talk show. Thanks, guys. Thanks for having me. Thanks for having us in your office. Like right now we got a bit of a view behind us. Where are we looking to? What's that?
This is Hollywood. We're kind of south east facing actually. You can see the skyline of downtown. Actually, you can see it real good today. smog is just clouding it entirely. But no, it's a beautiful view. You love
talking north south like a Tommy's message from you said Park, south side so we got the campus
travel with a compass. So just in case we're podcast guest throws us off So where do you actually get Mr. 97? He
got the compass. That's what he's actually looking at.
You say? The lot south of Capitol Records. Yeah. Is that a thing here in LA people are referencing se
directions. Yeah, a lot less the New York actually I spent four years in New York where you live and die by the grid. Here, I use North South LA. And it always takes people a minute to register. So maybe it's just a me thing.
And so how did you How'd you end up in this building? You personally,
I was running from the brewery to cold winters in New York. And I had had enough and just went to the chairman of the company. I was working with Batman, and he moved me out to LA. He came over to capital from I was over at Columbia Records and brought me with him. So yeah, the towel became my home six years ago.
And so a content producer, creative producer, yes. And so what is a creative producer, do A record company
so I'm more specifically a video Commissioner so it's overseeing all the video content for artists and the shared service so it's everyone under the capital Music Group umbrella and it's every step along the way from like creative concept like working with the artists to come up with the ideas through the finding the right directors to bring that to life through the producing literally every little piece of the puzzle that goes into it casting location styling, hair, makeup, choreography, all of those elements like working with the production team and the artists on the label to make sure that the the artists vision is brought to life.
Wow. And so is there a you assign because I've seen you do stuff with Katy Perry Hall ZAU assigned
artist artists as a creative producer,
I kind of gravitate to you know who I'm most passionate about. And I've had a long relationship with my artists that I have currently on my roster. So Send me a love to get an early and like put my hand up if I love the music. I love what they're about. And like, yeah, I want to get in from the ground up. But with holding I've been with her since she was a little baby. She put out her EP, and it's been amazing to just watch her kind of creativity grow and her career just skyrocket. So yeah, I tend to go for like the newbies that I can grow with and help sort of shape their creative identity.
So there's I mean, film clips. I've been watching rage back in the day in Australia, which I mean, I didn't even watch tell it like you
always, always say like the watermarks on YouTube, ripping them or whatever. Well, I'm straight to YouTube. Right.
But I think I mean, I'd like to know how much has music videos change from a budget perspective from a conscious of where it ends up and then how much we put into something like that.
Yeah, I mean, budgets. I've changed a lot like in the age of, I mean, you know, there's a huge huge shift when I Napster came along and now it's the digital age of streaming and we're actually on the app but the industry is doing incredibly well again, but budgets have definitely adjusted and I think that's just because we're trying to make more content. So whereas before you'd put all your eggs into one basket and be this huge moment and massive MTV premiere and the million dollar video now it's a content content content so it's not just the music video it's the vertical it's all over the behind the scenes all of the bite sized content that goes out on their socials and fans you know what kids delighted today and I they just want to consume consume. So we're, we're still spending money but it's just spread out across the board, you know, for a full content, kind of creative strategy around it.
How how to record companies find new artists and what how many new artists are in those early stages that you're saying and putting your hand up and doing work with
a lot. I mean, being hair. That's what kind of that's why I fell in love with the tower. The ethos of the the company was all about sort of growing and developing talent which you know, in today's day and age that you need a hit and otherwise you're kind of out but we've done an incredible job and like really growing new artists and breaking them. So you know, and are still existence in football so it's people still our shows every night scouring the internet like YouTube's an incredible space for us to find talent and just watching trends and seeing his spiking on new Spotify playlists like the playing field. It's you know, it's open now I think anyone can get in and that's really exciting. Like, some kid can show up at the label tomorrow and just be so talented and be distributing his own music. You know,
can you be a good artist and say no to social media. Do you think in 2019
think so but your reach is always going to be limited. I think social media is so important. Often I cringe like I hate posting and I'm trying to, you know, still be relevant and grow my brand even as a creative and in my other interests and I just, I know that you you know you're never gonna get sort of outside of your in a circle unless you are utilizing social media.
Successful author, he wrote the game. Neil Strauss followed Josh the other day.
Yeah, I got excited but yeah, I was like a Tommy I think we can cut through in Los Angeles. am David then unfollow, and then I saw that he had followed 50 other people so I think that he may have been entering into some form of bought where he's doing a bit of following
which I think that maybe I wonder if he feels that same way of like, you know, I know I need to do it. But what create what does it do to you You said, you know,
it makes me cringe. What is it is
it does it daughters is something that's happened
recently I think Yeah, especially as i've you know, I'm getting older and I just like look at all my peers and the younger generation and I'm trying to keep up and you want to talk
what would you say
10 years ago target what would have she been doing on social media saying like did you still have
Facebook 10 years ago I was really active but I've only ever used it to keep in touch with friends like I'm my kind of global friend network is so wide that that that's the only reason I use social media to keep in touch with people but now I'm getting conscious like all I have to post my videos I need to promote my walk. I need to you know,
we can at least get one Instagram snippet out of this. share on Facebook. So there's three,
Tommy the next six months. I very rarely. So you
said you knew halls. He sort of when she was a puppy, we call it a little baby. What do you think like in terms of artists seeing them that early stage To someone like holding out who's Uber successful? Is there something you see in common in the people that really make it as an artist? between, you know, like a trading, how they approach it or treat people around them?
Yeah, I mean, number one is drive and passion. Every artist that I've worked with, you know, that's broken through has been so passionate and driven and, and has come with such a clear vision and has never sort of wavered from who they are, you know, has always been authentic to themselves. And, and I think it's a combination of that and tenacity that, you know, and that kind of feeling that, you know, this is all I'm going to do, you know, I'm going to do this to the best of my ability and I'm going to make it and I think, you know, with creatives in general, I find that that very easy to connect with because there's such you know, sort of expressive more empath and I'm an empath as well. And I think that's a common interest and a common trait. So I don't know I think I think you've got to be a people person and you have to have that drive. And that passion to really make a
when you were in school, what did you think you would do?
I want to see a spice go. Yeah. Big time. Marius.
Yeah, that was like my path. And then I thought, I think I saw MTV, making a video with one of my favorite directors, and Florida since Monday. And I was like, Ah, what is that job? I want to do that. And then, like I said, directing, and then I discovered kind of being behind the camera and knowing that there was more of a overarching kind of creative role where I would get to collaborate with directors and with artists and sort of combine everything that I loved.
What was the first job that you did on that sort of journey?
Oh, it was for this young girl band kind of forgotten legacy. Yeah, it was a young girl band. It was signed to Columbia Records.
Were you working with like, was it through them? Was it freelance?
And I can't even remember the name of God. or
doing for what? Like what was
the mission that? Yeah. And it was a really low budget. It was a green screen. They were about 16 years old. I can't remember the name.
It feels like there's certain legacy industries, where there's a very clear hierarchy, like did you go through all those
years in London, I moved spent my summers in New York, interning, yeah, I was of that generation where you definitely had to pay your dues. You weren't paid for internship. You know, and you were making photocopies and picking up lunch and dry cleaning and it's but it was just such a privilege to be around executives and me Music Industry creatives that you could just absorb from and learn from and yeah, everyone was hustling like I spent, you know my school years working so I could afford to go to New York for the summers unpaid and and just get those relationships going. I mean
at that point how do you even landed an internship was
just I was so annoying and persistent they only gave me one because that I had How is this gone? Why she emailing calling nonstop dislike TV com so
resistance gets you everywhere.
So you should you coli CB cold
calling emails was like just a thing.
Yeah. Well, I think it's like the younger generation as scalar the phones getting us are getting on the blower. So you know like, I mean, how will in turn get a job at a place like Capitol Records.
Well, now it's completely different. Like we have incredible summer programs and you know, we get applicants from Um, you know, every college across the country and we vet them, we interview them and we give them really detailed specific projects, which, I mean we we've done a great job assimilating them into the company as well. I think we've hired a bunch of them over the years so yeah, it's not what it used to be like they come in and they do great work that has a lasting impression and, and, you know, when it's not like it was like they get paid, it's it's very different. I didn't even get away with what
I had to do what I always wonder, Is it like, Is there a process now so you gotta go into the process to get the internship, but I always wonder, reverting old school getting on the blower. Can you have cut through now even in the processes where it is like, follow this and you will see if we can get you in. So do you think it's worth calling a place and finding say asking?
No, not at all.
Because I want Tommy and I both didn't really do higher education. What's what I guess this new system system encourages that, you know, going to college doing all that sort of thing. You know, we've seen people in huge amounts of student debt and doing it in the arts and things where you couldn't like, I think about the debt that people are and it's like, man, if you put that 90 grand and put it into a short film, you could do a bunch of stuff. What's your take on higher education? Did you go to college or you did
I went to film school. But you know, I was lucky, we don't really pay we pay very little for education in England when we did when I was going through college. And it's a struggle here. I mean, education is expensive. And I I'm all about it, it really is who you know, and putting the work in, you know, outside of your degree, like I think putting that money into making a short film or, or to support yourself to be able to take on internships, I think you've just got to build your network, build the right relationships and, and sort of build your resume in the field that you want to be in. That's more valuable. For me personally, then joining a degree mean, I don't use mine.
Yeah, I didn't finish school. And I'm in Capitol Records.
Not even in the
The Hollywood is a funny place like, I think it's we've been talking the last few days just about the culture and yeah, and the Mr. Nice heavens court Americans. So American,
was it? Yeah.
Yeah. What is the what is the culture of America that you love here in the surrounding area?
And that's so cliche, but it's the opportunity and the idea that you can do anything you want. I've heard that a lot. What
does that actually mean?
I think it's, you know,
Based on amazon prime, if I decide not to go ahead, yeah, no, yeah. what's what's the serious answer? What do you think
the serious answers that you know, you never had? No. Or negativity right if there's something you want to pursue or something that you're dreaming of doing it's like oh yeah, I can help you with that. Oh, have you met someone so they can they can support you on that and there's just so many different avenues of opportunity and for me that was really exciting. I you know, not to be down on Europe like England has a much more negative no can do attitude to American Sign know if there are positive there certain signs where it's like, that's close to a known Yeah, there's like a gentle let down, which is very like where did very roundabout next to just not negative and they are criticized for being that comes across as quite shallow, sometimes insincere? Which that for me I'd much rather someone smiling and positive. Even if they're talking about the rats, you know, if it's disingenuous fine, but that to me is so much more uplifting and then being around someone that's down and just down on life and negative.
Do you remember your first day in New York City?
I remember my first visit that when I was a teen, and like going into I think Abercrombie and Fitch like 17 and there was like Hi, how are you? Yeah, you know that's a conference so friendly here. I mean
as Americans off as friendly as i get i think Mecca is I've walked into Mecca in Australia then on the launch in the last couple of years super friendly very American vibe in there Yeah. Well actually engaging with you. It was not just the service industry here. Yeah. Just creates this extra level of if it because I need that cash money.
Yeah, the tip of the tip, but can you explain like the nuances of the tips I've been explaining it to Mr. 97. And it's a little bit you know, I'm like, okay, in and out. Don't tip. The if you were to go on a shuttle bus where you were going from the air airport to pick up your car rental. Yeah. Would you tip the bus guy? Okay, we gave him two bucks. So we're generous that's
staying in a b&b. Would there be a problem with using the dryer more than say eight times?
That might be fishing and
that's what I said. I said,
I'm paying $4,000 for the week.
Because I even find that like in the US When the bell boys come over to pick up the luggage. If I'm strapped for cash, I'm like, I'm fucking taking this bag. Yes, I don't want I just don't want the awkwardness of them feeling.
I know sometimes I can carry my bag and it's annoying that you're forcing your service on me because you want to add some money from me. And while I'm on the subject I've been talking about tipping a lot lately actually. really bothers me is the coffee culture like it's already $6 for a latte, right? And then there's this compulsory like window of tipping that comes up and it's like 20 minutes I turn it around. so awkward and they're right there waiting for you to give the tip and I'm just spent $6 on a coffee. I'm not going to tip you $3 on top of that.
It's a blue bottle is a big, you know, it's like you walk into a real studio. It's not a What do you call it? Not like some new establishment that's trying to get cut through it's becoming a big thing. So then you go well, I shouldn't to put a bigger place. Where's the line? Yeah.
That's a good point. And the services always exceptional. Yeah, because they're working for the tab but also people are really just generally really good at
all like someone who's not even leaving the counter. Are they working for the tip? Like what do you recommend my female?
Oh, minimum wage? Yeah. You know, it's it's a lot of effort into the drink as it is now. You know, pour over and it takes like 10 minutes. Maybe you can get $1 I sound really stingy. I'm so stingy here in my life. Hollywood's
No. No tip, no tip.
If it's a long ride if it's just like a short ride
Well, what we discovered last time, a lot of Ozzy's jumping in the front seat and Uber you know
me too I'm not a jumpers
chatty not even I just sometimes just jumping one thing, but we will with last time I will hear two people in the back main the front I didn't want to squish in the back and they would always have to pull this a back for me and I was like, they were always so annoyed with it.
inconvenient didn't expect you to sit in the front.
What sort of Americanisms do you love?
I love the wall here specifically. I love the outdoors in us and I love that everyone is just so casually, athletic and like
you're describing casually athletic
We're on a couch looking very straight right now.
the weather the I think it's just the lifestyle in general and the lifestyle that everyone projects on social media, which I can't avoid but it it just makes me feel good. I love it. Everyone's in the sunshine does it?
Does it make you feel good or does it said like when you were coming from the east coast to the west coast, is there a sense of like, Okay, I need to sort out my rig I need to start exercising like is there a body conscious
in a good way though? Okay, not to the point of obsessiveness, but is encouraged me to get healthier to eat better to just so everything shots at like 10 o'clock so you know, where's New York? 24 hour city so I'd be having dinner at 1130 at night and out to to hear I'm in bed really early, which I love. I love that encourages you to sort of embrace your age.
alive. I was wondering so I mean problem in Australia is eight o'clock. I mean, blesses causing a lot La La is a little bit lighter. I've noticed restaurants New York 24 hours as you said, What are these people when we're in New York last time they're out at night? I've got work tomorrow. You're just not getting the really.
And that's why I was I've Surette when I live there I think at age 10 years, just because ZU out all the time, Nick having everywhere or taking the subway, so it forces you to be able to drink and yeah, and just the environment and the weather wasn't conducive to healthy life.
I heard a guy a filmmaker, say you live in New York. You're not living there. You're surviving. Yeah.
Is that fair to say? Yeah, completely. And so you and it's like some sick pleasure that you're taking, like, yeah, I'm like, I'm making it I'm yeah, I'm surviving New York. That's exactly
like you. I could imagine your first job. You're not earning much money at all.
No. And, you know, a lot of kids there I think still have helped Parents the parents have to pay their rent. I didn't have that luxury, but it's challenging.
So is it you mentioning back home people are a bit more negative in terms of people's dreams and aspirations here it's like, kid you can do you can be whatever you want to be, does it play into like, the extremes of like, there's also a lot of people that aren't making it to go on the sidewalk rapping, trying to make it back. Is there is it sort of, is it a word? Is it a place of extremes?
I've, I've kind of been trying to tap into this lately, because that that is like a dark, sort of depressive side to LA and
delusions are a delusion
and a lot of failure. And, you know, your Uber driver is probably an actor who's been trying to make it for five years and people come here with such you know, high expectations and big dreams and, and it's a bit that is that level of depression. I think when people are just still grinding still trying to make And yeah, it's so it's there's definitely a duality like, there's two sides is the happy, everything is great and we're in sunny california to the I'm like working for minimum wage. I haven't fulfilled any of my dreams and you know, I don't know how I've just lost 10 years living in this city.
It's, it's fun because I think I feel that and I see that and we were walking down the street last night and this guy's like, saw that we had cameras and he said, you know, what do you guys do? Go to podcast and he said I'm a rapper. And Josh said rap for us.
Yeah, it's hard. I mean, how often are you getting people pitch? Like pitching?
Yeah. ZD Have you been down to Venice boardwalk
inescapable does this little kid down that's so sad. He must be like seven. And he can't sing. save his life. completely off key but his I think big brother maybe his dad hasn't out there day in day out.
Singing I go Woods All
money, you know, just busking and he's got an audience because he's so bad and it just breaks my heart because then there's that level of exploitation and yeah, down on the boardwalk like anything goes. Everyone's trying to make it back. Yeah.
What do you do on the weekends?
I'm down on the boardwalk. Yeah.
H and you're enjoying awake with your role? You spending time with a lot of creative people? What have you learned about the process of working with creative teams? Have you got any hacks or tricks in bringing people together when it comes to shoots?
Question. Um, I really learned the hard way. Not that I'm not a good person. But I think I think just being really open minded and collaborative and open to other ideas seems to be like a lot of competition in the creative space right now. And You know, just I see it with when I'm working with directors and art directors and everyone has an opinion right and and the artists and myself because I'm a creative but I've just I've learned to sort of take it back, see and hear what everyone else has to say first and be open minded to their ideas and just try and kind of fuse everybody's creative vision together to make the best possible product. And I just as a lot of disgruntled creatives who feel unheard and like unfulfilled once I get to the shoot, you know,
do you think you've worked out what constitutes a great idea or something that will be an amazing idea?
No, not at all. Yeah, sometimes it's still a complete gamble, but I just go with my gut feeling like you know what feels good. And what's a really unique vision. And
then what about when something doesn't feel great? So Katy Perry comes to us got this idea. And inside you're thinking, well, I don't know. And the thing is, you don't know because we haven't done it yet. We can't see it. What does that that feel like?
That that's me listen to my gut and that's happened quite often and I will always speak up or you do Yeah, I do speak up and I might get like, you know, his friend back in my face or but I think yeah you've always got to be honest yeah I'm not I'm here I'm paid to have an opinion and I'm, I'm on these projects to to help guide the creative. So ya know, I was I was falling my god
yeah, I remember when I was younger I the first time I was on a proper set, and I was I was given the role as an assistant director. And the reason I found out later was because I want to shoot shouldn't permits, so then at least one student on set. And so they got me and I didn't really know what an assistant director did. I thought it was sort of assisting the director with a backing creative. And so I was giving the guy a bunch of like, maybe you could try this now you could try that didn't wasn't doing didn't even touch a call sheet during the whole time. And I look back now and I cringe at that experience when you You were younger and earlier on, were you talking hoops and doing throwing your ideas out there? And do you reflect on that stuff now? Or did you sort of stay in your line?
No, I talked a lot. And I was always trying to buddy up to you know, people that really shouldn't have been talking to. I was a little bit obnoxious, perhaps. But no, I sometimes I reflect on that time in my life. And I think what happened to that passion and not like gusto that used to have and that, you know, 16 year old girl was just so, so much more like driven and inspired.
Is it naivety though because I've thought that for myself, right? Like we said, sort of chutzpah to make the phone call or just give someone a crack.
We haven't fucked up at that point. Right. When you haven't, I guess it's easy to just throw out things. Yeah. Nothing to lose. Yeah, yeah. That's so true.
And so listening to you got though, when does that really kick into identify? That's that feeling and this is the situation and connecting that.
For me, you know, I'm really in tune with my buddy. So I act on that really quickly. If something doesn't feel right, and if I ignore it for too long really starter, either way. I mean, I have to speak up.
Yeah. What are the different things from a an artist who's just getting started to an artist that's been in the game for say 1015 years? What's the attitude shift? Are there any sort of commonalities across the board?
It's there isn't really, it's so different like for me. You know, I've had new artists walk in the door like holy who had presented me with like a Bible of incredible references and ideas and sheets scripted and conceptualize every video on the album. And before you know, we'd even before she even started recording the music, you know, the ideas were all there. And not, most people would think that would come with time with a more seasoned Sort of artists after, say 15 years of doing it, but yeah, I mean that, like the creative chops and sort of the vision can come really early on, or it can take some artist years to sort of refine and really get a handle on like, who they are creatively, but know that everyone's different, everyone's unique, there aren't really any commonalities.
What about burnout? Is that something that especially inside How long were you in New York, four and a half years or four
years, four years?
Was that so that was burnout.
Yeah, because New York also is working such long hours, but not really being productive. There's this whole there's this weird thing where you, you can't leave the office because everyone's there till 930 and if you're seen as like, not being as committed or slacking off just all about
Yeah. Parents, what are people doing? No idea. What
was it like you Is it drinking heaps of coffee? Like does a bunch of other things that come along with? Yeah, definitely.
And you know, there isn't really any way to go and take a nice walk like here if I really wanted to, I could go to Griffith Park on my lunch break and take a really nice walk and get outside and you know, we've got a beautiful courtyard downstairs that we can sit in like we didn't have any event in New York It was very much like City Living city walking and I would just go home at 930 you know, eat really like going to bed and like just do the whole thing again.
And so what was it did you have to really learn how not to do when you came to LA?
Staying in till 9pm and then realizing that you're the only one here or two people still have that sort of
people I work so much more efficiently here and, and in a weird way, I became like, not less good at my job. But you know, you, you learn to be really effective and in a normal work day rather than and obviously I'm always on and there's definitely times where I've been Because they're just long shoot days or you know, you know, just not getting myself care. And that's another thing la really supports holistic wellness. That's like the thing here, right? It's trendy now. So I can take that time to like meditate and have my self care routine and do all these things that you would just be ridiculed for doing in New York. I think like when I was there,
is it even within businesses? So are they supporting? Yeah,
definitely. Yeah. Yeah, we have like wellness opportunities and you know, meditation days and things events that we can we can tap into a nap catch likely sitting on this would be comfy for me day meditation that? Yeah, it looks like
after a long day shooting, yeah.
What's the from a culture point of view when you're on a conference call with, say attainment on the East Coast or things like that. Can you tell Australia Why is there a different vibe between the different coasts.
Yeah, yeah. And I mean, I noticed that between the coasts and also with other countries I work with Australia and office and what
do you think? Good I'm I know, I
know that like, like the Brits like when they're on vacation, they're on vacation. So yeah, you can't reach them. Yeah. Whereas the American culture and work ethic is, you have to, you're always on and email on your phone, on vacation days aren't really, you know, vacation days. Yes, you're out of the office, but you're always switched on. And that was something I had to get used to when I moved to the States.
Is it? I mean, who who do you push back? If you can imagine I wouldn't survive in a business doing that. I've got my contact me. Obviously, can't this sort of rules? Are they spoken? Is it like holiday bad? No, it's almost,
and again, it depends what you do. Like I wouldn't really want to switch off entirely because I'm so passionate about my projects, and if I've got videos in production, and I'm Also a bit of a control freak. So I don't really want to hand those over to my team. So, you know, those deadlines are deadlines, if I have a shoot in two weeks, but I haven't have scheduled a vacation, a while back before I knew, like I've just got to be on and prepping the job while I'm away.
Talking about being a control freak. You could say that as being a good thing or a bad thing you're
gonna say you can see.
I mean, you obviously having done you know, this sort of work for a long period of time you get to learn your traits. Has there been any pivotal moments in your career where you've realized something about the way that you work and you've had to shift or change or adapt?
Yeah, I actually am. I grew up grew up. I mean, I grew up in this business. My very first boss was really aggressive and very masculine and kind of a bully actually. And because that was the first person I learned from I notice I pulled some of these traits and took them with me, and it wasn't Every time when I finally found much that a mentor who helped shape me in a different way, I realized that actually, those traits weren't serving me like that I picked up from her. And it was another woman, which was surprising. And just in general, being masculine in the workplace, I think a lot of women have to be to an extent. And I really tried to sort of strip that back and not be so kind of hard and demanding and sometimes aggressive to get what I want. It's just, it's difficult as a woman, and also, you know, when I'm working with massive teams, like if I'm on set, people are many five foot one, and people don't always hate me that seriously. So I can have a bit of a bite and I don't like that about myself. So I try to always keep it kind of soft and professional and be really respectful of everyone. So I think every time I learned that,
you talked about the competitive nature of, I guess, this city, I mean, everyone's here, there's limited jobs, and there's lots of people vying for those jobs. But then on the other hand, people are supportive and sit, you know, celebrate the I do that? How, what is that? How does the competitiveness come out? How do you see that as someone that's a, maybe in your creative producer role? Like, what what does that look like,
as far as social, it's, it's an, in a way, it's healthy competition to an extent because it just makes you want to do better and have better ideas. But, you know, a great idea can come from anywhere. And, you know, I find that I'm always just a little bit like, you know, even when I'm working with directors, and they're making suggestions to the artist, and like, I should have thought of that, you know, when I coming up with these ideas, yeah. So it's just, it's very subtle. You're just kind of wanting to always better yourself and to sort of stand out amongst a city that is, you know,
fueled by entertainment and creativity. So is there a
it's a high standard? Yes, exactly. Across the board. Everyone's trying to
Yeah, slightly one up.
Yeah, yeah. I could imagine that's hard at times. Do you find it hard to?
Yeah, do you? Yeah. Yeah. And it's really hard to be on and to be creative all the time. Like it's quite draining. Yeah, it it's sometimes I just have to hibernate because when you asked me how I did the weekends I my studio sleep.
You mentioned having a mentor. Hmm. What has your relationship been with mentors? And over the years, have you started to become a mentor for different creatives? It's funny
when? Yes, I've had a couple of brilliant mentors, and I've been really lucky. But I, I've always considered myself I guess I forget how long I've been in this industry. So now that people are starting to come to me, and asking me to mentor them in some capacity or to help them grow or to manage them. Like I have a great guy on my team who, who reports into me now and I've been sort of grooming him and building his career up. And now it's been such a great experience by just I was kind of looking at as I'm like, Well, I'm not old enough to be a mentors. Anyone know, I haven't been doing this long enough I, I guess my you know, my self doubt starts to creep in and I just sort of I forget that actually I've been doing of 12 years and I have a lot of stories and experience and wisdom to share.
So what is a good mentor? And what were some of the traits that you found in some of those early mentors that you had, that you've brought into what you do,
mostly men, you know, management styles, how they communicate with people. So communicating effectively, always being compassionate, having an open door and being a buffer. Like I had a great boss who really protected me from the law and always, you know, had my best interests at heart and wasn't trying to sort of threaten me or cut me out and anyway and you know, would his level idea of being successful was to see me be successful because that meant that he had sort of grown me and supported me in the right way.
What have you learned from teaching? Like, being with somebody who you mentor? I've had
to like lose my ego. Because I think teaching teaches you so much. Yeah, I not that I don't have a big ego, but it comes out. And I think communications been really important. And I have, I mean, he's great. He gives me feedback a lot and sort of, what do they call it up managers, which is good, because it helps me to grow. And I think communication and supporting and also talking about being control freak, I've learned to really relinquish a lot of that and be able to have been able to give up a lot of my projects, to allow him to flourish and sort of grow in his role by saying, you know what, you're going to handle this on your own. I'm here if you need me, but I'm not going to micromanage you and that's Been, that's been challenging but very rewarding for me to say when you say communication, is it taking the creative ideas in your head and actually verbally communicating? Yes. And also just communicating my needs, like how I am where I need support and what I expect of them without, you know, being impatient or snapping or being intolerant in any way, you know, and often I have conversations in my head, and I haven't had them out loud with him. And, you know, I'm expecting things to have been done, which haven't been, but it's actually my fault, because I just haven't expressed myself
clearly. You mentioned before that you're a shared service within the business. I guess, as someone who's a buffer, you're dealing with a lot of stakeholders constantly. Yeah. Does it feel like sometimes like you've got a lot of bosses and a lot of sort
of, yeah, a lot of people to please Yeah. Which I actually love that part of what I do. And when people yeah, you know, you're dealing with the artists and managers. Is the marketing team, the executives, the directors, the producers, so you're just you're trying to sort of make and sometimes brands, you know, there's product involved. So you want to make everybody happy and find that middle ground
a certain way do you say okay, if the artist is happy, then it means that these people are going to be like, how do you
take it? Generally? I mean, we're and you know, we as a company always put our artists vision so they that comes first primarily. So yeah, I'll obviously if I've got concerns or opinions I've always done but always support the artists and the company fast but I think, yeah, I'm learning I'm still learning the craft of you know, emotional intelligence and learning to deal with lots of different personalities and people's wants and needs.
Yeah. How do you find you know, in, in, in, in the entertainment industry, music, you're dealing with sort of high status people are a bunch of different, you know, types of artists. The personal relationship and trying to understand that I'm guessing it's quite a complex thing Have you worked out mechanisms around that if like, hang on are we spending all this time with these people we work buddies we actually mates
yeah it's hard it's funny when I left my other job has such a like it was like a death It was such a mourning the loss of my identity because I was at my previous label for about five or six years as well and and you know, they switch off your email and it was so interesting like, no one contacts you
have your email
the notes attached to
still having I can say.
And so what was that like? Like, how do you?
Well, obviously some people came out of the Woodworks and those are the ones that I called true friend. Yeah, said but I've learned now was Really good lesson on my whole identity was wrapped up in that job and I thought, okay, I've got to redefine who I am outside of my career. So it was really healthy to have that wake up. And so now you know, I love everyone that I work with, but it is business at the end of the day and I'm lucky to have a few of them as friends. Artists like it's that's just been just so wild like to forge really close relationships with them and to be so connected and close. And you know, because when you want to get in their head and understand their vision and understand them, and I bet there's that boundary, right, you've always got to remember this, that this is still business that they're not my friend, but you have to forge that connection to be able to do great work with them.
Yeah, it's interesting, like the Do you think that you can do, like work and have friendship at the same so
yeah, I mean, sorry, that sounds really harsh like I would, I would call them all my friends. I love to still you know, Stay close to everyone that I work with when I leave. Because you do become so close. But
is there something different? Do you think like, I think that maybe that plays into the American culture a little bit. So everyone's supportive, and everyone's super nice. But so then it gives you this base level, right? Where that you could assume that you have a quick meeting with someone so I really connected with that person. I think my great mates, and this happened to me where I was, you know, filming a bunch of short form tacos, and I was working with an American guy. And by I was like, Fuck, I've recognized make 15 new friends. And so
you got the dinner invite a lot for brunch this weekend. Oh, give me your number.
Sorry, he's there. He's there a distinction? Or like you just not maybe I'm overthinking it. But do you? Do you say okay, because you know, there's certain people Who like your work with where you won't even know their birthday? Or or that the people who have like a different name on Facebook and you know, they never put their profile picture up and things like that. So you got that end. And then you got the person who wants to be made and they constantly saying, hey, let's go for a drink.
He saying one of the signs of an actual night Yeah, well, yeah,
I'm trying to work out like how you blend like blended together? How do you know when you've entered a friendship with someone from work?
For me, it's when I share like, I'm such an open book with people that I feel close to. So my whole team, I mean, they basically bless them all have to sit through weekly therapy sessions with me while I just splash everything that's going on in my love life, my family life, like all of it. So I would call them Empire. I would call them kind of family. Yeah, more than friends. I wish I was so close. And yes, we don't go out for dinner and drinks that much would do things on occasion, but, but I know that if I needed anything, I could call them and they'd be that's me.
We spend a lot of our time doing work so it's a lot of our waking hours of our lot yeah,
you have to at least like the pay where you work
and it actually helps loving
spend more time in my
house and you pay rent that you don't pay rent here
so when you were trying to work out where to move to an ally what are the things that you consider as it is walking to work important to like how do you get around what what do you think about
I classic Brit, I moved to the beach because I thought you know, it's gonna be now I'm going to do it right. And I loved it. I was I could walk to everything in Venice. I was too much on the water and the community but then it it did start to feel like a bubble.
Yeah. Were you working here? Yeah, well, I mean, we just hit 57 minute drive from Santa Monica. Back to
25 Is it like, small like he's in a small community?
But you're moving the whole time, you know, cooling, like, doesn't matter. As long as you're moving any amount of driving is fine. You know if you're 65 and flying, that's great. Yeah,
it's a good view. Yeah, it doesn't like Snapchat on half of Venice now. So that's what happened.
Yeah. So we moved down, like that local kind of beachy community dissipated and then became, you know, the tech kids move down. And it lost its charm, but like having a community being able to walk to a lot of things is so important. And it's really rare to find that, you know, walking to the end if you know, God, I would never where I live now. I'm in the sort of gentrifying part of the city. Yeah. And there's still gunshots at night. So like, I definitely wouldn't walk anywhere. Is it downtown? No, I'm in its mid city, but I'm sandwiched between West Adams Jefferson Bach
and this is legit gunshots Yeah. Holy shit.
So I know I mean it's less than last
john shot two gun shy
I compromise for the neighbor because I bought a place and that was kind of the only place I could afford
buying in the US what's the process?
White? Very confusing.
Like so you
know, President Yeah, I could be a difference. Okay, so with the residency with a green college you have to be here six months of every year. That's I got my citizenship, which I could do. I can move freely, like, you know, disappear for five years and then come back.
Okay, sure. And so yeah, when you're buying the house, yeah, yeah. What are the things that you have to consider that you weren't even thinking about at the time?
Oh, God, just all the like, weird like taxes and add ons and utilities here is that much more than England? Like I wasn't expecting, like rights and stuff like, yeah, the mortgage rates are higher as well. Yeah, all of it, you have to put 20% down. That was just such a growing up kind of moment in my life where I feel like I became an adult. And I had to learn a lot. And yeah, so that was beginning, a good experience to have. Yeah,
we're talking. I mean, we talk about this stuff, like we know what the credit and credit credit schools like in Australia, if you had 10 credit cards, even if you're paying them off, you'd be probably detrimental to getting a home loan. You having too many too much credit.
Basically, if you want to get a mortgage, you need to like get rid of all of your credit cards.
I will teach you how to be rich or whatever he talks about in the US. It's like, get your credit card. Yeah.
Yeah, it's LNG more money if you have that.
You could say I mean, from a perspective of Australia and the way they drilled into us, it's like, you could pop that bubble in anytime like, all these people if the economy drops out, not use specific. Nice job, nice office. Let's hope it never goes. But you know, like a lot of people with a lot of debt. Is that how people slip in? Do you think, to those hard times?
Yeah, I think so one of the things, you know, buying things that they can't afford, like getting a home, I didn't know enough about the crash of 2008. But it was essentially people borrowing more money than they they could afford. Right. So and I could see that when I was looking for a house I was being offered a loan, which was way more than I could afford. That's like, how are you calculating this just based on my income because I can't meet these monthly payments. Yeah, so then they're like pushing you into buying that higher bracket sort of prize property because you have the Improved, then I wouldn't be able to meet those monthly. So that's how your house gets repossessed without
saying that they were proving it. Yeah.
Yeah. So they approved me to essentially bankrupt myself.
Yeah. So from a progression point of view with your career, where does a creative producer got like, what's the next level up from a creative producing
role in the music industry?
And does it interest you? Or have you sort of found your sweet spot?
Yeah, I'm right now I'm in my sweet spot. And,
you know, like I said, we're sort of, we're focusing on content strategy, you know, in a much wider sense. So it's all of the content that that goes alongside an album or a single launch. So I'm kind of getting to dabble in everything and live stuff, teases, verticals, dirt, videos, personality content. I'm really hoping to build out creative campaigns. I think, you know, might be really interesting at some point in my career to move into some of the print stuff, which we have another amazing team that handles all of that. So that's album artwork and photo shoots, but that side of it, you know, is very much cohesive with what we're doing in the video space. We're
still still relevant, given most people streaming and things like that, or
Yeah, I mean, because you still need
to show and vinyls really big and a lot of artists like to have the physical kind of tangible record. Yeah. And you know, the beauty about what we do as a creative floor is the artists kind of first stop is with us so we get to sit with them and build out their mood board and figure out what they want the kind of look and identity to be. So I think just for me, You know, getting more into sort of space where I'm like having more of an overarching role in print and video would would be really interesting the next step,
how far ahead is a business like Capitol Records, looking at technology and the different ways people are consuming
the content? We're pretty far ahead. We have like a whole, you know, it's a little bit out of what I do. But we do have like a really strong research team that's tapped into all of that and how musics being consumed and you know, the algorithms and you know, whether it's more beneficial to release a video day and day with the song or we should put out another piece of content or we should wait a week or whatever it might be. Every decision is very calculated and intelligently decided based on research that's out there.
When you're watching video clips, like little nods like these things that just blow out blow Yeah. go viral Gundam style. with a critical eye. You're running a critical eye over them as someone who. Yeah, I wish I made it. Yeah. So good. What do you what do you take from seeing something like little noses to live in the phenomena?
Yeah. I mean, it's a moment in time, right? I mean, every now and then you kind of strike gold with a video and you might create something and have no idea that it's going to blow up like it does. Do you think these people creating these kind of things that are thinking that like this is gonna be no, not just from personal experience? Like, well, we've had things that have really done well, you just don't know all I've I've created content that I thought would do incredibly well and didn't get the eyeballs on it.
Yeah, well, it seems like the biggest creative killer is when a client says we want it to go viral. Is there is there any Is there any other statement or warning signs in a in a meeting where it's like, actually, I think that we're on the wrong track here.
Yeah, like, I tend to get a bit wary when people are going to want to go really left of center or really outside the box. So we need something with shock value. Yeah, I think everyone's trying to create content that has repeat watchability. Right. So that you know, however that is whether it's doing something shocking or, or really left or center. You know, people are just grasping at an innovative, different idea. Got me everything's recycled in one way or another in my opinion. Yeah, we're all inspired by each other.
Is there anything hard to say that you found really hard to source but you've got it for film clip?
Like the, the hand of
the office is that well, you know, I just had a flashback to my first summer interning in New York and I was like 17 and Alicia Keys. To have the most specific color purple for piano in one of the film clips, videos, and I just remember calling every piano store supply in New York City trying to track down this specific color. And it was so important and you know when you're new I remember my heart was racing and the pressure was on I have to find this guy
trying to describe a specific purple over the phone.
Yeah, describe red
purple, it's a Marigny purple. Is that what your
purple closer to a hot pink that
kind of? Was that what it was?
Yeah, it was so long ago. I just remember that anxiety.
Did you get it? Yeah. Is there anything in this office that you've kept this little memento? What are
those rub those rubber band bowls did they come like that a rubber band
haven't kept that many props apart from this chair which was from a Katy Perry shoot. We've got three of them actually.
comfortable with it. Are they built specifically for it? Or is it?
Um, no, I think they would purchase props actually. But they in the video we had the nails painted on the back of them. She was getting her nails done at the salon. Oh, with an Ozzy director. What's his name? My gosh. Come back to me, Joel something rather. Yeah. Great. rz. Director,
can you? Do you have to come to Los Angeles Do you think as an artist to make it or do you think there's other or do you have to be one of the big cities?
I don't think so. Just knowing some of the artists that we've discovered from far corners of the world I think now with the internet Yeah. So up for grabs, right?
Yeah. What about your your job? What's back home that you could do that is a similar Similar level I guess
I can invent Yes.
Yeah, it's funny. I mean it isn't I bought the house to feel more at home and yeah, I feel more lonely than ever.
So when you got the the house yeah what is the because Tommy and I don't buy places but we have we play I play planning on eventually we have our own home and that I feel like that's especially in Australia. It's the strange rain that you buy a place and then it's like rent anymore right? And then it feels like you're winning even though you got to still pay the bank. What was the Yeah, what was the feeling when you when you got the place? Is that sort of excitement at the beginning? We think I'm gonna air b&b.
Yeah, I'm gonna come down when I got the place. I'm supposed to feel really settled and happy. And Ellie's my home now and it just felt very anticlimactic.
Was it because of the you were doing what you could afford, which is in an area that was you know, the Yeah,
like I love the house but the area and I really miss walking. I really missed like knocking on my friends door and say hey, you want to go through the sky at the beach in a
GG roller skate? skateboard skateboard? That's cool.
Skate to roller skating No.
roller skating How long you been doing that for?
Um, I was calling roll it. I was calling skateboarding roller skating.
roller skating rink, though. You know, I see my friends All the time.
so skateboarding. How long have you been
part of all maybe eight years.
And so can you actually get around? I guess.
I'm transport. Okay. Yeah, less here in Venice. I used to skateboard all around Venice and Santa Monica. where I live. No, it's more just You know, just friend night kind of Skype. dodging bullets. Yeah, um, but yeah in when I live in Brooklyn, I used it to get around everywhere, which is why I love
the lime and the bird skirt is
very much love hate love. Yeah. When I really am in a con find a parking spot near the beach so I have to park 10 blocks back and get on one but
you actually use them if you like if
I'm really in a pinch, but what bothers me is that there isn't they're getting better. But when they first came out, they were just strewn across the sidewalk like later and I was caught I've come out my house and Venice because that's where they started. So like the testing ground and they would just be five of them powered up on my stoop and I'd have to constantly step over them and it just was really it's quite sad to see this in this like society. It's another example of how we just discard things and just have No respect for
the planet and like all stuff you know?
Yeah I think we've since we've been here since we came last year I think the list
yes gases Yeah.
I tried to get over last night and it was like they saw zone it out. Have you heard that before I've actually turned them off. I haven't
had that but they zone you out of where you can park it which frustrates me because then all of a sudden you're not aware and it's a $35 fine really
just tweeting like a bird
and gum up. I just got the fine
driving Los Angeles is like a city that requires a car
I definitely public transport is getting better I've shockingly never written on it. And
that's what is the public buses I guess I
says and subway there is a subway which actually August by my house.
What about things like Elon Musk's tunnel that he's building? Yeah, I mean I hear about that I think I hear about this sort of gimmicky things more so
i mean i don't know
if you heard much of that
no, and you probably know more than I do. I thought it was just another myth yeah
I thought I thought the the tunnels more like a
safe it's I want to do the bank
to the airport right so it's like a few minutes in which we need a speed tunnel Yeah,
like a train right.
Well, they're capsules that are sent projected and the on tracks and the mission I see if it's probably read The Verge knows more about
all missing I seven doesn't lie fact of the day normally but now that we're in Li we thought if when we have guests on they could give us a fact. What What is your la factory
tag effects thing that you know What's
that, like? Food wise? Like, is there a food plot? I could be recommendation. That's easier. If someone's coming to LA best burger. It's a fact. No, that's in and out. But the thing is, I went vegetarian. Do you know what the vegetarian burger is like in and out?
Isn't that a cheese mouth?
Is that what I call it? It was just a burger without the beef. or his progress. Yeah, it was it was okay. Yeah, someone said it was a salad.
I don't think I had chasing it. But it was. It was sad. It felt like it was missing the actual thing that you made.
So what's your recommendation doesn't have to be food could be a place to visit. Place to see tourist trap.
I would say what's kind of undiscovered? Oh, you know, I was downtown today for the for the climate change. Youth climate change, rally. Even I'm bit old, a digital really old and I By the way, and I realized that there's this whole undiscovered part of La that I've never been to down there it's like the Walt Disney musical the road which is the new is relatively new museum that's down there slew of great restaurants are popping up and it it felt I felt like I was on vacation city whole that whole Grand Park that's there it's just beautiful and it was really like vivacious yeah i was i was my mind was blown actually it felt like a different city and I'd never seen that part of town so is it fresh? Or is it No I think just more things have been coming up and I just haven't looked at it with the right sort of perspective all in the right lens.
Well you said your your area is like up and coming minds
up and coming up and coming.
Phase Yeah, definitely.
Does one could highly likely which is really hipster everyone you know with beards and like good bosses. on their laptops all day.
What sort of milk Do you get out? I mean, I don't know.
You know $6 turmeric latte
no no, I'm hot even I'm even a hot coffee.
Yeah Have you have you done less to make 60 lattes since you've got your mortgage?
Yeah definitely yeah make them at home now.
How do you make them at home?
I might I go for the mucha lattes or I get like a golden time right blend
that much. I like the green powder green.
Let's get up on the whisk.
Whisk. Yeah. Did you get the ceremonial?
I got the bow and I was like
it was just like
she got the ceremonial grade Oh
your Do you cuz I came off the coffee about six months ago? Okay, so was it my adrenal switch is tapped just give you a bit of a basil.
It's caffeinated but very antioxidant. Did the doctor
say the adrenal What did you get blood tests or whatever and they're like, how do you know because I feel like
I'm really enjoying my body and I've been doing a lot of my like thing that I love to do on the side is health coaching. So I'm really well versed in health and I've Yeah, I've done a bunch of hormone adrenal tasks and but it's just obvious if you stress enough in life, yeah. And that like constant drip, drip like the cortisol that our adrenal is giving off and just messing up, you know, our hormones and messing with our organs and all of that, like if, you know, undoubtedly, if you're not getting enough deep rest and sleep and you're generally stressed, very low level.
realize how much caffeine with there's more caffeine in iced, like cold like cold burns. I didn't know that until the last time we were here we had an interview. And it was Yeah, it was like a night where we city what Studio City we had an interview. And we're waiting and I just had this big, like American sort of style like, Yeah, kind of Yeah, cold, cold brew. And then I was like Kelly and saying,
Well, I guess like sweating having four or five coffees a day
to you after the first couple.
Want a day. But the reason I knew as a problem was when I came off it. I got massive headaches and cravings like withdrawal symptoms. So that's, you know, strong indication that one a day is
messy. So do you feel better now?
So much better? Got more energy?
hard transition, but yeah, I mean, why don't we listen to everybody?
I mean even today eating we I'm at a massive burrito I got to a point and I said to myself if I was listening to myself I'd stop now yeah
so big and you feel so obligated to finish the whole I can hear my mom the back of my head like that Starving Children wild you know finish a food. Yeah. Yeah, there's too much waste
and a huge breakfast lunch or dinner person which is your favorite meal and breakfast. And what did you What do you have?
Oh, it's boring now because I've gone vegan and try and save the planet. So what is it?
Yeah, I'm making like a amazing super smoothie.
Yeah, okay. Or I'll do you know, milk without milk. And like great protein powders and like fruit.
Sort of protein powders a
complete meal complex on like organic, lots of different good things is riveting for your you know, Like I put the you know what you call it? The spirulina Hawaiian has to be Hawaiian. All of my essential oils. All of my supplements go in without spoiling too many. Yeah, I put lots of like tonics and potions and coconut oil and yeah, I met this meeting.
What's your favorite essential oil?
Oh, sorry over here. Yeah, you can tell us about it. Yeah, I like blue. So I'm gonna pick blue. It's almost a daily talk show blue
piece on a piece. So this is a grounding blend. It's it's a mix. It's full, kind of reassuring you if you're in a very stressful anxious time of your in your life. You inhale the best way to do it is kind of like a bomb like dropping your hand. Yeah, sorry. Now rub your
hands. Nothing wrong
with my head and what about
Yeah and then just like a good
thank you okay what do you think about all the marijuana stuff that's happening at the moment with the like the MC what's the CBD all that sort of stuff madman know we going to an apple store
yeah it looks like the Apple Store
raid like all the all the work everything's
on iPads so sleek and you go in there and you're not really sure what you're going to buy and it's crazy and they the one on Abbot Kinney is especially in Venice, they started off really small they bow out building next them have expanded it's bigger than apple.
Jeremy's wonder if the venture though because I probably got like
as if you think
you really strict vegan
Some people take it for slide you take it for sleep or do another time. Yeah. And what does it do to that mellow like Yeah,
really? deep sleep. Okay, yeah, I might micro dose just to kind of mellow me but I don't don't really use it that much. Yeah.
Which ones they specifically?
CBD like Tommy Okay.
Yeah. And so like when we walk around it's like we smell it you know out in Australia it's obviously it's illegal now what's what's been the shift in saying go from have a license to completely legal for
your basic et contact hi everywhere you walk in LA which which frustrates me because
we always contact high you know yesterday I just felt a little bit but also we hadn't eaten so I think I should got sugar levels,
you know, but if you were in Venice Yeah, you know, chances are but yeah for me it's like smoking cigarettes is banned in public places and in the streets and at the beach. So I think marijuana I don't want to smoke secondhand smoke anyone?
Yeah, it's interesting because it seems like there's such a big there's a lot of celebrities getting behind it and all that sort of thing I wonder if it's gonna be a direction where it's like okay now the legislation is showing all these different places what's
what's the vibe you know Friday night drinks obviously the thing that most
still taboo if you if your boss is having a joint Yeah,
kind of is Yeah, I wouldn't like I haven't seen anyone to have a corner on the side. I mean, everywhere and is to be to smoke a cigarette.
I think it's the same I think like you
said health conscious. You can literally cut walk down Hollywood Boulevard.
I'm gonna do that.
So that's not the same in Australia. There's a bunch of no smoking zone. Yeah, sure. You can walk down having six cigarettes. Yeah.
vaping vaping Very,
that you can do.
So again, this double standards frustrates me.
It's amazing that you can't smoke walking down the street but you can smoke.
If you're on the beach of the boardwalk, it is illegal. It's a baseball walk. Yes. Public Spaces. Industry and it's probably just wrong.
That's right. Yeah. It's like don't put it, put someone else on.
Target. Thank you so much for on your Friday, staying backlight and just chatting to us. It's my pleasure. Yeah, it's been fun and funny.
It's a daily talk show if you want to email us high, the daily talk show, calm. Otherwise, we'll see you guys