Targa Sahyoun On Creative Collaboration & Intuition

Targa: The Daily Talk Show.

Josh: It's a daily talk show and we are in Los Angeles.

Tommy: We're in the Capitol Records building and we're here with Targa Sahoon.

Josh: Is that how you say it?

Tommy: I backed out.

Targa: I'm sorry. I was just gonna go for it.

Tommy: Well, Josh was rehearsing it before, so he'd had the practice.

Josh: I was really proud. I probably should have said that I'd been preparing.

Tommy: Well, welcome to the Daily Talk Show.

Targa: Thanks guys, thanks for having me.

Tommy: Thanks for having us in your office. Like right now we've got a bit of a view behind us. Where are we looking to?

Targa: What's that? This is Hollywood. We're kind of southeast facing actually. You can see the skyline of downtown. Actually, you can see it real good today. Usually the smog is just clouding it entirely, but no, it's a beautiful view.

Josh: You love talking north-south. Like Tommy's message from you said, park south side.

Tommy: So we got the compass.

Josh: Yeah, we're getting the compass out.

Tommy: We travel with a compass. So just in case where podcast guest throws us off, where are we? Did you actually get Mr. 97?

Josh: He's got the compass, that's what he's actually looking at.

Tommy: But you said the lot south of Capitol Records.

Targa: Yeah.

Tommy: Is that a thing here in LA? People are referencing southeast, north?

Targa: Directions?

Tommy: Yeah.

Targa: A lot, less than New York actually. I spent 4 years in New York where you live and die by the grid. But here I use north-south a lot and it always takes people a minute to register. So maybe it's just a me thing.

Josh: And so how did you end up in this building, you personally?

Targa: I was running from the brutal cold winters in New York and had had enough and just went to the chairman of the company I was working with back then and he moved me out to LA. He came over to Capitol from, I was over at Columbia Records and brought me with him. So yeah, the tower became my home 6 years ago.

Josh: And so a content producer, oh sorry, a creative producer?

Targa: Yes.

Josh: And so what does a creative producer do at a record company?

Targa: So I'm more specifically a video commissioner. So it's overseeing all the video content for our artists on the shared service. So it's everyone under the Capitol Music Group umbrella. And it's every step along the way from like creative concept, like working with the artists to come up with the ideas through to finding the right director to bring that to life through to producing literally every little piece of the puzzle that goes into it, casting locations, styling, hair and makeup, choreography, all of those elements, like working with a production team and the artist and the label to make sure that the artist's vision is brought to life.

Tommy: Wow. And so, um, is there— are you assigned? Because I've seen you, you do stuff with Katy Perry, Halsey.

Targa: Yeah.

Tommy: Are you assigned artists as a creative producer?

Targa: I kind of gravitate to, you know, who I'm most passionate about. And I mean, I've had a long relationship with my artists that I have currently on my roster. So for me, I love to get in early and put my hand up if I love the music or I love what they're about. I'm like, yeah, I wanna get in from the ground up. Like with Halsey, I've been with her since she was a little baby. Really? And then she put out her EP and it's been amazing to just watch her creativity grow and her career just skyrocket. So yeah, I tend to go for the newbies that I can grow with and help. Sort of shape their creative identity.

Tommy: So there's, I mean, film clips. I've been watching Rage back in the day in Australia.

Targa: Oh, do they still have that?

Tommy: I mean, I don't even watch telly, like, free-to-air TV.

Josh: Yeah, they do. I always see like the watermarks on YouTube, people ripping them or whatever.

Tommy: Well, I'm straight to YouTube, right? But I think, I mean, I'd like to know how much has music videos changed from a budget perspective, from a conscious of where it ends up and then how much are we putting into something like that?

Targa: Yeah, I mean, budgets have changed a lot. Like in the age of, I mean, you know, there was a huge shift when like Napster came along and now it's the digital age of streaming and we're actually on the up, the industry's doing incredibly well again, but budgets have definitely adjusted and I think that's just because we're trying to make more content. So whereas before you'd put all your eggs into one basket and it'd be this huge moment and massive MTV premiere and the million-dollar video to now it's like content, content, content. So it's not just the music video, it's the vertical, it's all of the behind the scenes, all of the bite-sized content that goes out on their socials and fans, you know what kids are like today, like they just wanna consume, consume. So we're still spending money but it's just spread out across the board, you know, for a full content kind of creative strategy around it.

Josh: How do record companies find new artists and how many new artists are in those early stages that you're seeing and putting your hand up and doing work with?

Targa: A lot. I mean, being here, that's what kind of— that's why I fell in love with The Tower. The ethos, like the company was all about sort of growing and developing talent, which, you know, in today's day and age, like you need a hit and otherwise you're kind of out. But we've done an incredible job at like really growing new artists and breaking them. So, you know, A&R still exists. That's in full force. So it's people still out at shows every night, scouring the internet. Like, YouTube's an incredible space for us to find talent and just watching trends and seeing who's spiking on new Spotify playlists. Like, the playing field, it's open now. I think anyone can get in, and that's really exciting. Like, some kid can show up at the label tomorrow and just be so talented and be distributing his own music, you know.

Josh: Can you be a good artist and say no to social media? Do you think in 2019?

Targa: I think so, but your reach is always gonna be limited. I think social media is so important. Oh, and I cringe, like I hate posting and I'm trying to, you know, still be relevant and grow my brand even as a creative and in my other interests. And I just, I know that you, You know, you're never gonna get sort of outside of your inner circle unless you are utilising social media.

Tommy: Well, a successful author, he wrote The Game, Neil Strauss, followed Josh the other day.

Josh: Yeah, I got excited, but then—

Targa: Is he?

Josh: Yeah, I was like, Tommy, we're getting cut through in Los Angeles. Neil followed us? So I DM'd him, then unfollow, and then I saw that he had followed 50 other people, so.

Tommy: I think that he may have been entering into some form of bot where he's doing a bit of following unfollowing, which I think that maybe I wonder if he feels that same way of like, you know, I know I need to do it, but what it creates, what does it do to you?

Targa: You said, you know, it just makes me cringe.

Tommy: What is it?

Josh: Is it, did it always do it or is it something that's happened recently?

Targa: I think, yeah, especially as I've, you know, I'm getting older and I just like look at all my peers and the younger generation and I'm trying to keep up.

Josh: And are you on TikTok?

Tommy: What would have the 10 years ago Targa, what would have she been doing on social media saying? Like, did you still have that?

Targa: I was on Facebook 10 years ago. I was really active, but I've only ever used it to keep in touch with friends. Like I'm, my kind of global friend network is so wide that that's the only reason I use social media to keep in touch with people. But now I'm getting conscious like, oh, I have to post my videos. I need to promote my work. I need to, you know.

Tommy: Well, you can at least get one Instagram snippet out of this, a photo, a share on Facebook. So there's 3 bits of content.

Targa: That will sort me for the next 6 months. I very rarely post.

Tommy: So you said you knew Halsey sort of when she was a pup, did you call it? A little baby.

Josh: A little baby.

Tommy: What do you think, like, in terms of artists seeing them at that early stage to someone like Halsey now who's uber successful? Is there something you see in common in the people that really make it as an artist? Between, you know, like a trait in how they approach it or treat people around them?

Targa: Yeah, I mean, number one is drive and passion. Every artist that I've worked with, you know, that's broken through has been so passionate and driven and has come with such a clear vision. And has never sort of wavered from who they are, you know, has always been authentic to themselves. And I think it's a combination of that and tenacity that, you know, and that kind of feeling that, you know, this is all I'm going to do. You know, I'm going to do this to the best of my ability, and I'm going to make it. And I think, you know, with creatives in general, I find that they're very easy to connect with because they're such, you know, sort of expressive, warm empaths, and I'm an empath as well, and I think that's a common interest and a common trait. So I don't know, I think you've got to be a people person and you have to have that drive and that passion to really make it.

Josh: When you were in school, what did you think you would do?

Targa: I wanted to be a Spice Girl.

Tommy: Did you?

Targa: Yeah, big time.

Tommy: I wanted to marry a Spice Girl.

Targa: Yeah, that was like my path. And then I thought, you know what, I think I saw MTV making the video with one of my favourite directors, Floria Sigismondi, and I was like, "Oh, what is that job? I wanna do that." And then I was like, "Is it directing?" And then I discovered kind of being behind the camera and knowing that there was more of an overarching kind of creative role where I would get to collaborate with directors and with artists and sort of combine everything that I loved.

Josh: What was the first job that you did on that sort of journey?

Targa: Video creative. Oh, it was for this young girl band. God, I've forgotten actually. Yeah, it was a young girl band who was signed to Columbia Records.

Josh: Were you working at Columbia? Like, was it through them? Was it freelance?

Targa: No, it was through them. And I can't even remember what the band was called. Uh, oh no.

Josh: What were you doing for what?

Tommy: Like, what was it?

Targa: I commissioned that.

Josh: Yeah.

Targa: And it was a really low budget. It was like green screen. They were about 16 years old. I can't even remember their name. It was literally one hit wonder.

Josh: It feels like there's certain legacy industries where there's a very clear hierarchy. Like, did you go through all those steps?

Targa: Oh, definitely. I interned for years in London, then moved, spent my summers in New York interning. Yeah, I was of that generation where you definitely had to pay your dues and you weren't paid for internships, you know, and you were making photocopies and picking up lunch and dry cleaning. And it was— but it was just such a privilege to be to be around executives and music industry creatives that you could just absorb from and learn from. And yeah, everyone was hustling. Like I spent, you know, my school years working so I could afford to go to New York for the summers unpaid and just get those relationships going.

Tommy: I mean, at that point, how do you even land an internship as a young woman?

Targa: I was so annoying and persistent. They only gave me one because they're like, who the hell is this girl and why is she? Emailing, calling nonstop, just like, tell her she can come.

Tommy: So it's like Mr. 97. He was emailing.

Targa: Persistence gets you everywhere.

Tommy: So you said you were calling, so you'd be calling from London.

Targa: Full calling. Emails was like just a thing then.

Tommy: Yeah, well, I think it's like the younger generation are scared of the phones getting— I say getting on the blower. So, you know, like, I mean, how would an intern get a job at a place like Capitol Records?

Targa: Well, now it's completely different. We have incredible summer programs. And we get applicants from every college across the country. And we vet them. We interview them. And we give them really detailed, specific projects, which— I mean, we've done a great job assimilating them into the company as well. I think we've hired a bunch of them over the years. So yeah, it's not what it used to be. They come in and they do great work that has a lasting impression. And it's not like it was. They get paid. It's very different. I don't think you can get away with what I had to do.

Tommy: Well, I always wonder, is it like, is there a process now? So you've got to go into the process to get the internship. But I always wonder, reverting old school, getting on the blower, can you have cut through now even in the processes where it is like, follow this and you'll— and we'll see if we can get you in. So do you think it's worth calling a place and finding if you see— asking?

Targa: No. Not at all.

Tommy: Don't be annoying.

Josh: Do you think that that's how— because I wonder, Tommy and I both didn't really do higher education. What's— and I guess this new system encourages that, you know, going to college, doing all that sort of thing. You know, we've seen people in huge amounts of student debt and doing it in the arts and things where you could like— I think about the debt that people are in. It's like, man, if you put that $90 grand and put it into a short film, you could do a bunch of stuff. What's your take on higher education? And did you go to college or uni?

Targa: I did. I went to film school, but you know, I was lucky. We don't really pay for— we pay very little for education in England. Well, we did when I was going through college. It's a struggle here. I mean, education is so expensive, and I'm all about— it really is who you know and putting the work in, you know, outside of your degree. Like, I think putting that money into making a short film or to support yourself to be able to take on internships. I think you've just gotta build your network, build the right relationships and sort of build your resume in the field that you wanna be in. That's more valuable, I think, for me personally than doing a degree. I mean, I don't use mine. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Tommy: I didn't finish school. And I'm in Capitol Records.

Targa: Look where you are.

Tommy: But I'm not even in the internships.

Targa: You're in Hollywood.

Tommy: We're in Hollywood, mom. Hollywood is a funny place. Like, I think it's— we've been talking the last few days just about the culture and the Mr. 97's quote, "Americans are so American." Was it?

Josh: Yeah, that's what he said.

Tommy: Yeah. What is the culture of America that you love here in the surrounding area?

Targa: I know it's so cliché, but it's the opportunity and the idea that you can do anything you want.

Tommy: I've heard that a lot. What does it actually mean, though?

Targa: I think it's, you know, it's Postmates. Do you want the funny answer?

Josh: It's convenient.

Targa: It is partially.

Josh: I nearly got a green card based on Amazon Prime, but I decided not to go ahead. Yeah, no, yeah, what's the serious answer? What do you think?

Targa: The serious answer is that, you know, you never hear no or negativity, right? If there's something you want to pursue or something that you're dreaming of doing, it's like, oh yeah, I can help you with that. Oh, have you met so-and-so? They can support you on that. And there's just so many different avenues of opportunity and for me that was really exciting. I, you know, not to be down on Europe, but like England has a much more negative, no can do attitude.

Josh: How do Americans say no? If they are positive, there are certain signs where it's like, that's close to a no?

Targa: Yeah, there's like a gentle letdown, which is very like worded, very roundabout. No, 'cause they're just not negative. And they are criticised for being, that comes across quite shallow sometimes or insincere, which, but for me, I'd much rather someone smiling and positive even if they're talking out their ass, you know, if it's disingenuous, fine. But that to me is so much more uplifting than being around someone that's down and just down on life and negative.

Josh: Do you remember your first day in New York City?

Targa: I remember my first visit there when I was a teen. And like going into, I think, Abercrombie and Fitch. I was like 17 and everyone's like, hi, how are you? How can I help you? You know, I was like, wow, everyone's so friendly here.

Tommy: I mean, as Americans are, as friendly as they get. I think Mecca is— I've walked into, it's a, you know, Mecca in Australia. They've only launched in the last couple of years. Super friendly, very American vibe in there. Yeah, people actually engaging with you, which I think we've noticed this. Yeah, the service industry here just creates this extra level of effort because they need that cash money.

Targa: Yeah. The tip.

Josh: Well, the tip. Can you explain like the nuances of the tip? So, I've been trying to explain it to Mr. 97 and it's a little bit, you know, I'm like, okay, in and out, don't tip. If you were to go on a shuttle bus where you were going from the airport to pick up your car rental.

Targa: Yeah.

Josh: Would you tip the bus guy? No. Okay, we gave him $2, so we're generous. That's really generous.

Tommy: If you were staying Staying in an Airbnb, would there be a problem with using the dryer more than say 8 times?

Targa: Ooh, that might be pushing it. I'd be pissed if that was my Airbnb.

Josh: That's what I said too. I said too. Yeah.

Tommy: What if you're paying $4,000 for the week?

Targa: Then I would use it multiple times. Maybe 100.

Josh: So tipping, what's the deal? 'Cause I even find that like in the US when the bellboys come over to pick up the luggage, if I'm strapped for cash, I'm like, I'm fucking taking this bag.

Targa: No.

Josh: 'Cause I don't want, I just don't want the awkwardness of them feeling like.

Targa: And also sometimes I can carry my own bag and it's, annoying that you're forcing your service on me because you want to earn some money from me. And while I'm on the subject, I've been talking about tipping a lot lately, actually.

Tommy: Off of Spencer.

Targa: What really bothers me is the coffee culture. Like, it's already $6 for a latte, right? And then there's this compulsory, like, window of tipping that comes up, and it's like 20% minimum.

Josh: Because they turn it around.

Targa: Yeah, and it's so awkward, and they're right there waiting for you to give the tip. And I've just spent $6 on a coffee. I'm not going to tip you $3 on top of that.

Tommy: Yeah.

Targa: Is it a problem with the—

Tommy: the, say, Blue Bottle is a, is quite a big, you know, it's like you walk into a real sort of, it's not a, um, what do you call it, not like some new establishment that's trying to get cut through. It's becoming a big, big thing. So then you go, well, I shouldn't tip at a bigger place. Where's the line? Yeah, when's it become—

Targa: that's a good point. And the service though is always exceptional. Yeah, because they're working for the tip, but also people are really just generally really good at what they do.

Josh: Or like someone who's not even leaving the counter, are they working for the tip? Like, what do you reckon they're making an hour?

Targa: Ooh, minimum wage. Yeah. And you know, if it's a lot of effort into the drink, as it is now, you know, pour over and it takes like 10 minutes, maybe you can get a dollar. I sound really stingy. I'm so stingy here in my like Hollywood, Capitol Records town.

Tommy: Uber?

Josh: Uber?

Targa: No tip.

Tommy: No tip.

Josh: No tip for Uber?

Targa: I do if it's a long ride. If it's just like a short ride, I don't tip.

Tommy: Well, what we discovered last time, a lot of Aussies jump into the front seat in Ubers.

Josh: And well, tell me that I'm not a jumper.

Targa: Do you chat? Are you chatty?

Tommy: Not even. I just sometimes just jump in and like to keep my own thing. But we were with, last time we were here, two people in the back, me in the front. I didn't want to squish in the back and they would always have to pull their seat back for me. And I was like, they were always so annoyed with it.

Targa: It's bloody asshole thing. It's inconvenient. They don't expect you to sit in the front.

Tommy: What other sort of Americanisms do you love?

Targa: I love, well, here specifically, I love the outdoorsiness and I love that everyone is just so casually athletic and like—

Josh: You're describing me, casually athletic.

Targa: Your core strength.

Josh: We're on a couch and I'm looking very straight right now.

Tommy: So what, like the weather?

Targa: Yeah, the weather, the I think it's just the lifestyle in general and the lifestyle that everyone projects on social media, which I can't avoid, but it just makes me feel good. I love that everyone's in the sunshine.

Josh: Does it though? Does it make you feel good or does it set, like when you were going from the East Coast to the West Coast, is there a sense of like, okay, I need to sort out my rig, I need to start exercising? Like, is there a body conscious?

Targa: In a good way though. Okay. Not to the point of obsessiveness, but it's encouraged me to get healthier, to eat better, to just also everything shuts at like 10 o'clock. So, you know, whereas New York's a 24-hour city, so I'd be having dinner at like 11:30 at night and out till 2. Here I'm in bed really early, which I love. I love that it encourages you to sort of embrace your age and live a slower life.

Tommy: I always wondered, so I mean, our problem in Australia is 8 o'clock. I mean, places are closing a lot earlier. LA's a little bit later, I've noticed, all the restaurants New York, 24 hours, as you said. What are these people— when we were in New York last time, they're out at night. They've got work tomorrow. Are you just not getting the sleep? Really?

Targa: And that's why I was— I was a wreck when I lived there. I think I aged 10 years just because you're out all the time and you're cabbing everywhere or taking the subway. So it affords you to be able to drink and yeah, and just the environment and the weather wasn't conducive to healthy life.

Tommy: I heard a guy, a filmmaker, say living in New York, you're not living there, you're surviving.

Targa: Yeah.

Tommy: Is that fair to say?

Targa: Yeah, completely.

Tommy: And so you—

Targa: and it's like some sick pleasure that you're taking, like, yeah, I'm like, I'm making it. I'm, I'm surviving New York. That's it. Exactly.

Tommy: And like, I could imagine your first job, you're not earning much money at all.

Targa: No. And, you know, a lot of kids there, I think, still have help from their parents. Their parents have to pay their rent. I didn't have that luxury, but it's challenging.

Josh: So is it?

Tommy: You were mentioning back home people are a bit more negative in terms of people's dreams and aspirations. Here it's like, kid, you can do, you can be whatever you want to be. Does it play into like the extremes of like, there's also a lot of people that aren't making it. The guy on the sidewalk rapping, trying to make a buck. Is there a sort of, is it a place of extremes, do you think?

Targa: You know, I've kind of been trying to tap into this lately because there is like a darker, sort of depressive side to LA.

Josh: Maybe delusion. Is there a delusion?

Targa: Yeah. And a lot of failure in the air. And, you know, your Uber driver is probably an actor who's been trying to make it for 5 years. And people come here with such, you know, high expectations and big dreams. And, and it's a bit— there is that level of depression, I think, where people are just still grinding, still trying to make it. And yeah, it's— so it's— there's definitely a duality. Like, there's two sides. There's the happy everything is great and we're in sunny California to the I'm like working for minimum wage. I haven't fulfilled any of my dreams. And, you know, I don't know how I've just lost 10 years living in this city.

Tommy: Well, yeah, it's, it's full on because I think I feel that and I see that. And we were walking down the street last night and this guy's like, saw that we had cameras and he said, you know, what do you guys do? We've got a podcast. And he said, I'm a rapper. And Josh said, rap for us.

Targa: Yeah.

Josh: So how often are you getting people pitch, like pitching?

Tommy: Rapping at you?

Targa: Yeah. Yeah. Here's a CD. Have you been down to Venice Boardwalk? Oh my gosh. Yeah. It's inescapable. There's this little kid down there. It's so sad. He must be like 7 and he can't sing to save his life. Completely off-key. But his, I think, big brother or maybe his dad has him out there day in, day out.

Josh: Tiger Woods style, just hoping to dazzle us.

Targa: For money, you know, just busking. And he's got an audience because he's so bad. And it just breaks my heart because then there's that level of exploitation. And yeah, down on the boardwalk, like anything goes. Everyone's trying to make it back.

Josh: Yeah. What do you do on the weekends?

Targa: I'm down on the boardwalk. Yeah.

Tommy: Like getting to the beach.

Josh: And during the week with your role, you're spending time with a lot of creative people. What have you learned about the process of working with creative teams? Have you got any hacks or tricks in bringing people together when it comes to shoots?

Targa: Ooh, that's a good question. I really learned the hard way, not that I'm not a good person, but I think, I think just being really open-minded and collaborative and open to other ideas, there seems to be like a lot of competition in the creative space right now. And, you know, just— I see it with when I'm working with directors and art directors, and everyone has an opinion, right? And the artists and myself, because I'm a creative. But I've just— I've learned to sort of take a back seat and hear what everyone else has to say first and be open-minded to their ideas and just try and kind of fuse everybody's creative vision together to to make the best possible product. Otherwise, just a lot of disgruntled creatives who feel unheard and like unfulfilled once they get to the shoot, you know.

Tommy: Do you think you've worked out what constitutes a great idea or something that will be an amazing idea?

Targa: No, not at all.

Josh: Yeah.

Targa: And sometimes it's still a complete gamble, but I just go with my gut feeling. Like, you know what feels good and what's a really unique vision.

Tommy: And but what about when when something doesn't feel great. So Katy Perry comes to you, got this idea, and inside you're thinking, well, I don't know. And the thing is, you don't know because we haven't done it yet. We can't see it. What does that feel like?

Targa: That's me listening to my gut, and that's happened quite often, and I will always speak up.

Tommy: Oh, you do?

Targa: Yeah, I do speak up, and I might get like, you know, it's thrown back in my face, but I think, yeah, you've always gotta be honest. I'm like, I'm here, I'm paid to have an opinion, and I'm on these projects to help guide the creative. So yeah, no, no, I always follow my gut.

Josh: Yeah, I remember when I was younger, the first time I was on a proper set and I was given the role as an assistant director. And the reason I found out later was 'cause they wanted student permits, so they needed at least one student on set. And so they got me and I didn't really know what an assistant director did. I thought it was sort of assisting the director with feedback and creative. And so I was giving the guy a bunch of like, oh, maybe you could try this, maybe you could try that. Didn't even touch a call sheet during the whole time. And I look back now and I cringe at that experience. When you were younger and earlier on, were you talking heaps and doing, throwing your ideas out there? And do you reflect on that stuff now? Or did you sort of stay in your lane?

Targa: No, I talked a lot and I was always trying to buddy up to, you know, people that really I shouldn't have been talking to. I was a little bit obnoxious perhaps, but No, I sometimes reflect on that time in my life and I think, what happened to that passion and that gusto that I used to have and that, you know, 16-year-old girl was just so, so much more like driven and inspired.

Tommy: Is it naivety though? Because I've thought that for myself, right? Like, where's that sort of chutzpah to make the phone call or just give something a crack?

Josh: We haven't fucked up at that point, right? And when you haven't, I guess it's easy to just throw out things.

Targa: Yeah, you've got nothing to lose.

Josh: Yeah. That's so true.

Tommy: And so listening to your gut though, when does that really kick in to identify that's that feeling and this is the situation and connecting that?

Targa: For me, for you? Oh, I'm really in tune with my body. So I act on that really quickly. If something doesn't feel right and if I ignore it for too long, it will really start to eat away at me and then I have to speak up.

Josh: Yeah. What are the different themes from an artist who's just getting started to an artist that's been in the game for say 10, 15 years? What's the attitude shift? Are there any sort of commonalities across the board?

Targa: It's— there isn't really. It's so different. Like, for me, you know, I've had new artists walk in the door like Hulvi, who had presented me with like a Bible of incredible references and ideas, and she'd sort of scripted and conceptualised every video on the album before, you know, we'd even before she'd even started recording the music. You know, the ideas were all there. And that, most people would think that would come with time, with a more seasoned sort of artist after say 15 years of doing it. But yeah, I mean, that, like the creative chops and the sort of the vision can come really early on or it can take some artists years to sort of refine and really get a handle on like who they are creatively. But no, Everyone's different, everyone's unique, there aren't really any commonalities.

Josh: What about burnout? Is that something that especially in say, how long were you in New York, 4 and a half years or?

Targa: 4 years.

Josh: Yeah, 4 years. Definitely burnout. So that was burnout?

Targa: Yeah, 'cause New York also, I was working such long hours but not really being productive. There's this whole, there's this weird thing where you can't leave the office because everyone's there till 9:30 and if you're seen as like not being as committed or slacking off, so it's all about, Desk time. Yeah, at parents.

Tommy: What are people doing?

Targa: I have no idea.

Josh: What were you doing?

Tommy: Candy Crush.

Targa: Yeah.

Josh: Was it like— and do you— is it drinking heaps of coffee? Like, is there a bunch of other things that come along with that?

Targa: Yeah, definitely. And, you know, there isn't really anywhere to go and take a nice walk. Like, here, if I really wanted to, I could go to Griffith Park on my lunch break and take a really nice walk and get outside. And, you know, we've got a beautiful courtyard downstairs. That we can sit in. Like, we didn't have any of that in New York. It was very much like city living, city working, and I would just go home at 9:30, you know, eat really late, go into bed, and like just do the whole thing again.

Josh: And so what was it? Did you have to, uh, relearn how not to do it when you came to LA? Yeah. Were you staying in till 9 PM and then realising that you're the only one here, or do people still have that sort of—

Targa: No, they don't. Like, people— I work so much more efficiently here, and And in a weird way, I became like, not less good at my job, but you know, you learn to be really effective in a normal workday rather than, and obviously I'm always on and there's definitely times where I've burnt out because of just long shoot days or, you know, just not forgetting my self-care. And that's another thing, LA really supports holistic kind of wellness. That's like the thing here, right? It's trendy now, so I can take that time time to like meditate and have my self-care routine and do all these things that you would just be ridiculed for doing in New York, I think, because when I was there—

Tommy: Is it even within businesses? So are they supporting that?

Targa: Yeah, definitely. Yep. Yeah, we have like wellness opportunities and, you know, meditation days and things, events that we can tap into.

Tommy: A nap couch like we're sitting on. This would be comfy for a little midday meditation nap.

Targa: Yeah.

Tommy: It looks like the guilty face.

Targa: Guilty face after a long day shooting, yeah.

Josh: What's the, from a culture point of view, when you're on a conference call with, say, a team on the East Coast or things like that, can you tell straight away, is there a different vibe between the different coasts?

Targa: Yeah, yeah, and I mean, I notice it between the coasts and also with other countries. Like, I work with our Australian office and our team in London.

Josh: What's the Australian office like, do you think?

Tommy: G'day, man. How are ya?

Targa: No, they're like, like the Brits. Like when they're on vacation, they're on vacation.

Josh: Yeah, sure.

Targa: Yeah. You can't reach them. Yeah. Whereas the American culture and work ethic is you have to— you're always on and email on your phone. Yeah. And vacation days aren't really, you know, vacation days. Yes, you're out of the office, but you're always switched on. And that was something I had to get used to when I moved to the States.

Tommy: Is it? I mean, who do you push back I could imagine I wouldn't survive in a business doing that. I'd be like, mate, don't contact me. Obviously you can't, there's sort of rules. Are they spoken? Is it like holiday, but?

Targa: No, it's almost, and again, it depends what you do. Like I wouldn't really want to switch off entirely 'cause I'm so passionate about my projects and if I've got videos in production, and I'm also a bit of a control freak, so I don't really wanna hand those over to my team. So, you know, those deadlines are deadlines. So if I have a shoot in 2 weeks but I happen to have scheduled a vacation a while back before I knew, like, I've just gotta be on and prepping the job while I'm away.

Josh: Talking about being a control freak, you could see that as being a good thing or a bad thing.

Targa: I thought you were gonna say you can see that. I was like, oh, how rude.

Josh: I mean, you obviously having done, you know, this sort of work for a long period of time, you get to learn your traits. Has there been any pivotal moments in your career where you've realised something about the way that you work and you've had to shift or change or adapt?

Targa: Yeah, I actually, I grew up, grew up, I mean I grew up in this business. My very first boss was really aggressive and very masculine and kind of a bully actually. And because that was the first person I learned from, I noticed that I pulled some of those traits and took them with me. And it wasn't till over time when I finally found a much better mentor who helped shape me in a different way, I realised that actually those traits weren't serving me that I picked up from her. And it was another woman, which was surprising. And just in general, being masculine in the workplace, I think a lot of women have to be to an extent. And I really tried to sort of strip that back and not be so kind of hard and demanding and sometimes aggressive to get what I want. It's just, it's difficult as a woman. And also, you know, when I'm working with massive teams, like if I'm on set, people— I'm only 5'1" and people don't always take me that seriously. So I can have a bit of a bite and I don't like that about myself. So I try to always keep it kind of soft and professional and be really respectful of everyone. So I think over time I learned that.

Tommy: Well, you talked about the competitive nature of, I guess, this city. I mean, everyone's here, there's limited jobs and there's lots of people vying for those jobs. But then on the other hand, people are supportive and, you know, celebrate, "Yeah, do that, do that." How does the competitiveness come out? How do you see that as someone that's maybe in your creative producer role? Like, what does that look like?

Targa: It's very subtle. It's, and in a way it's healthy competition to an extent because it just makes you want to do better and have better ideas. But, you know, a great idea can come from anywhere. And, you know, I find that I'm always just a little bit like, you know, even when I'm working with directors and they're making suggestions to the artists, I'm like, oh, I should have thought of that. You know, why aren't I coming up with these these ideas, you know, so it's just, it's very subtle. You're just kind of wanting to always better yourself and to sort of stand out amongst a city that is, you know, fueled by entertainment and creativity.

Tommy: So is there a, it's a high standard?

Targa: Yes, exactly.

Tommy: Across the board, everyone's trying to—

Targa: Yeah, to like one-up. Yeah. Yeah.

Tommy: I could imagine that's hard at times. Do you find it hard to——

Targa: to deal with. It's a pressure, right? Yeah, and it's really hard to be on and to be creative all the time. Like, it's quite draining. Yeah, it— sometimes I'll just have to hibernate because like when you ask me what I do at the weekends, I mostly just sleep.

Josh: You mentioned having a mentor. What has your relationship been with mentors? And over the years, have you started to become a mentor for different creatives?

Targa: It's funny when— yes, I've had a couple of brilliant mentors and I've been really lucky, but I, I've always considered myself— I guess I forget how long I've been in this industry. So now that people are starting to come to me and asking me to mentor them in some capacity or to help them grow or to manage them, like I have a great guy on my team who, who reports into me now, and I've been sort of grooming him and building his career up and that's been such a growing experience. But I just, I always kind of look at myself like, well, I'm not old enough to be a mentor to anyone or I haven't been doing this long enough. I guess my, you know, my self-doubt starts to creep in and I just sort of, I forget that actually I've been doing it for 12 years and I have a lot of storeys and experience and wisdom to share.

Josh: So what is a good mentor then? And what were some of the traits that you found in some of those early mentors that you had? That you've brought into what you do?

Targa: I think mostly, you know, management styles, like how they communicate with people. So communicating effectively, always being compassionate, having an open door, being a buffer. Like, I had a great boss who really protected me from a lot and always, you know, had my best interests at heart and wasn't trying to sort of threaten me or cut me out in any way, you know, would— his level idea of being successful was to see me be successful because that meant that he had sort of grown me and supported me in the right way.

Tommy: What have you learned from teaching or like being with somebody who you're mentoring?

Targa: I've had to like lose my ego.

Tommy: Because I think teaching teaches you like—

Targa: Yeah, I've learned so much. Yeah, I— not that I don't have a big ego, but it comes out and I think communication's been really important and I have, I mean, he's great. He gives me feedback a lot and sort of up, what do they call it, up manages, which is good because it helps me to grow. And I think communication and supporting and also talking about being control freak, I've learned to really relinquish a lot of that and have been able to give up a lot of my projects. To allow him to flourish and sort of grow in his role by saying, you know what, you're gonna handle this on your own. I'm here if you need me, but I'm not gonna micromanage you. And that's been, that's been challenging, but very rewarding for me to see.

Tommy: When you say communication, is it taking the creative ideas in your head and actually verbally communicating?

Targa: Yes. And also just communicating my needs, like how I and where I need support and what I expect of them without you know, being impatient or snapping or being intolerant in any way, you know. And often I have conversations in my head and I haven't had them out loud with him, and, you know, I'm expecting things to have been done which haven't been, but it's actually my fault because I just haven't expressed myself clearly.

Josh: You mentioned before that you're a shared service within the business. I guess as someone who's a buffer, you're dealing with a lot of stakeholders constantly. Yeah. Does it feel like sometimes like you've got a lot of bosses and a lot of sort of—

Targa: Yeah, a lot of people to Yeah, which I actually love that part of what I do because I'm a people pleaser. Yeah, you know, you're dealing with the artists, their managers, the marketing team, the executives, the directors, the producers. So you're just, you're trying to sort of make, and sometimes brands, you know, if there's product involved. So you want to make everybody happy and find that middle ground.

Josh: Do you skew a certain way? Do you say, okay, if the 'If the artist is happy, then it means that these people are gonna be happy.' Like, how do you deconstruct that?

Targa: Yeah, generally, I mean, we're, you know, we as a company always support our artist's vision. So that comes first, primarily. So yeah, obviously if I've got concerns or opinions, I'll voice them, but I'll always support the artist and the company first. But I think, yeah, I'm still learning the craft of emotional intelligence and learning to deal with lots of different personalities and people's wants and needs.

Josh: Yeah, how do you find, you know, in the entertainment industry, music, you're dealing with sort of high-status people or a bunch of different, you know, types of artists, the personal relationship and trying to understand that, I'm guessing it's quite a complex thing. Have you worked out mechanisms around that of like, hang on, are we— I'm spending all this time with these people, are we work buddies, are we actually mates?

Targa: Yeah, it is hard. It's funny, when I left my other job, it was such a— like, it was like a death. It was such a mourning of the loss of my identity because I was at my previous label for about 5 or 6 years as well. And, and you know, they switch off your email and it was so interesting. Like, no one contacts you. I don't have your email.

Tommy: I definitely didn't have your notes attached to your email. You didn't have iCloud?

Josh: Yeah, iCloud. You're out of business. All your good ideas.

Tommy: Yeah, all my great ideas. That's why I'm not successful now.

Targa: It's still hurting, I can see, I can feel it.

Josh: And so what was that like? Like how do you—

Targa: Well, obviously some people came out of the woodwork and those are the ones that I call true friends. So, but I've learned now, it was a really good lesson. My whole identity was wrapped up in that job and I thought, okay, I've got to redefine who I am outside of my career. So it was really healthy to have that wake up and So now, you know, I love everyone that I work with, but it is business at the end of the day. And I'm lucky to have a few of them as friends. Um, and with the artist, like, it's— that's just been just so wild, like, to forge really close relationships with them and to be so connected and close. And, you know, because when you, you want to get in their head and understand their vision and understand them and And but there's that boundary, right? You've always got to remember, no, this, that this is still business. Like, they're not my friend, but you have to forge that connection to be able to do great work with them. Yeah, it's interesting.

Josh: Like, the— do you think that you can do like work and have friendship at the same time?

Targa: Yeah, I mean, sorry, that sounded really harsh. Like, I would, I would call them all my friends. I'd love to still, you know, stay close to everyone that I work with when I leave, um, because you You do become so close, but— Is there something different, do you think?

Josh: Like, I think that maybe that plays into the American culture a little bit. So, everyone's supportive and everyone's super nice. But so, then it gives you this base level. Right. Where you could assume that you have a quick meeting with someone and say, "I really connected with that person. I think we're great mates." And this happened to me where I was filming a bunch of short-form docos. And I was working with an American guy, and I was like, fuck, I reckon I've made 15 new friends, and my mate's like, oh no, they were all just being nice, Josh. I mean, so—

Targa: You get the dinner invite a lot. Oh, we've gotta go for brunch this weekend. Oh, give me your number. So, when are we going for brunch? Cricket. Yeah, yeah.

Josh: And so, is there a distinction, or like, do you just not, maybe I'm overthinking it, but do you, Do you say, okay, because you know there's certain people who like you'll work with where you won't even know their birthday or the people who have like a different name on Facebook and, you know, they never put their profile picture up and things like that. So, you got that end and then you got the person who wants to be mates and they are constantly saying, hey, let's go for a drink.

Tommy: Are you saying what are the signs of an actual mate?

Josh: Yeah. Well, yeah, I'm trying to work out like how you blend, like blend it together. How do you know when you've entered a friendship with someone from work?

Targa: For me, it's when I share, like I'm such an open book with people that I feel close to. So my whole team, I mean, they basically, bless them, all have to sit through weekly therapy sessions with me, 'cause while I just splurge everything that's going on in my love life, my family life, like all of it. So I would call them, in fact, I would call them kind of family more than friends. Like we're so close and, Yes, we don't go out for dinner and drinks that much. We'll do things on occasion, but, but I know that if I needed anything, I could call them and they'd be there for me.

Tommy: Well, I think we spend a lot of our time doing work, so it's a lot of our waking hours of our life.

Josh: Yeah, you have to at least like the people you work with. That helps, right?

Tommy: And it actually helps loving—

Targa: I spend more time in this office than my house, for sure.

Tommy: And you pay rent there, you don't pay rent here. Yeah, isn't it a bizarre thing? Got a better view here though.

Targa: Yeah, much better.

Josh: So when you were trying to work work out where to move to in LA, what are the things that you consider? Is walking to work important to you? Like, how do you get around?

Targa: What do you think about? I, classic Brit, I moved to the beach 'cause I just thought, you know, if I'm gonna be in LA, I'm gonna do it right. And I loved it. I could walk to everything in Venice. I was 2 blocks from the water and there was a community, but then it did start to feel like a bubble.

Tommy: Yeah, were you working here? Yeah. Oh wow, I mean, we just hit a 57-minute drive from Santa Monica back to Hollywood.

Targa: It's the worst time, you're going the wrong way. Sorry, I should have told you that. Um, 40 minutes?

Tommy: Not even, 35? Is that like a small commute for someone who lives in LA?

Targa: Yeah, but you're moving the whole time, you're not crawling. I feel like it doesn't matter as long as you're moving, any amount of driving is fine. You know, if you're doing 65 and flying, that's great.

Josh: Yeah, that's a good view on life.

Targa: Doesn't like Snapchat own half of Venice now? That's what happened. Yeah.

Josh: So you moved out.

Targa: I moved out. Like, that local kind of beachy community dissipated and it became, you know, all the tech kids moved down and it lost its charm. But like, having a community, being able to walk to a lot of things is so important, and it's really rare to find that in LA, walking to anything. And if, you know, God, I would never— where I live now, it's I'm in the sort of gentrifying part of the city. Yeah. And there's still gunshots at night. So like I definitely wouldn't walk anywhere. Is that downtown? No, I'm in— it's mid-city, but I'm sandwiched between West Adams and Jefferson Park.

Tommy: And there's legit gunshots? Yeah. Holy shit.

Targa: So not— I mean, it's less and less. A gunshot's a gunshot. But I come— I compromise for the neighbourhood because I bought a place and that was kind of the only any place I could afford.

Josh: What's it like buying in the US?

Targa: What's the process like? Um, very confusing. I was like, so are you like a citizen here? No, I'm a resident. Yeah, I could be a citizen.

Josh: Is there a difference in regards to—

Targa: okay, so with the residency, with the green card, you have to be here 6 months of every year. But if I got my citizenship, which I could do, um, I can move freely. —like, you know, disappear for 5 years and then come back.

Josh: Okay, sure. And so, yeah, when you're buying the house, yeah, yeah, what are the things that you had to consider that you weren't even thinking about at the time?

Targa: Oh God, just all the like weird like taxes and add-ons and utilities here are so much more than England. Like, I wasn't expecting— like rates and stuff? Like, yeah, the Mortgage rates are higher as well. Yeah, all of it. You have to put 20% down. That was just such a growing up kind of moment in my life where I feel like I became an adult and I had to learn a lot. And yeah, so that was, you know, a good experience to have.

Tommy: Yeah, we're talking, I mean, we talk about this stuff like we know the credit and credit rating, credit scores, like in Australia, if you had 10 credit cards, even if you're paying them off it would be probably detrimental to getting a home loan based on— Oh, really? Yeah. Too much of a liability, having too many, too much credit.

Josh: Basically, if you want to get a mortgage, you need to like get rid of all of your credit cards. All your income? Whereas like, I read— Yeah, Ramit Sethi's got a book, I'll Teach You How to Be Rich or whatever. He talks about in the US, it's like get as many credit cards. Yeah, as many credit cards. That is really good. Yeah.

Targa: And then they lend you more money if you have debt. Yeah.

Tommy: I mean, you could say, I mean, from a perspective of Australia and the way they drill it into us, it's like you could pop that bubble at any time. Like all these people, if the economy drops out, not you specifically, you got a nice job, nice office. Let's hope it never goes. But, you know, like a lot of people with a lot of debt, is that how people slip in, do you think, to those hard times?

Targa: Yeah, I think so. When I think that, you know, buying things that they can't afford, like getting a home. I don't know enough about about the crash of 2008, but it was essentially people borrowing more money than they could afford, right? So, and I could see that when I was looking for a house, I was being offered a loan which was way more than I could afford. I was like, how are you calculating this just based on my income? Because I can't meet these monthly payments. So then they're like pushing you into buying that higher bracket sort of price property because you have the money approved. I'm like, but then I wouldn't be able to meet those monthly. So that's how your house gets repossessed.

Tommy: What are they saying? They're approving it?

Targa: Yeah. Holy moly. Yeah, so they approved me to essentially bankrupt myself.

Tommy: Just get a nice penthouse, but it'd be gone within 3 weeks.

Josh: So from a progression point of view with your career, where does a creative producer go? Like what's the next level up from a creative producing role?

Targa: Within the music industry or?

Josh: And does it interest you or have you sort of found your sweet spot?

Targa: Yeah, right now I'm in my sweet spot. And, you know, like I said, we're sort of, we're focusing on content strategy, you know, in a much wider sort of sense. So, it's all of the content that goes alongside an album or a single launch. So, I'm kind of getting to dabble in everything, live stuff, teasers, verticals, lyric videos, personality content, and really helping to build out creative campaigns. I think, you know, it might be really interesting at some point in my career to move into some of the print stuff, which we have another amazing team that handles all of that. So that's album artwork and photo shoots, but that side of it, you know, is very much cohesive with what we're doing in the video space.

Josh: So still, still relevant given most people streaming and things like that?

Targa: Or is it— Yeah, I mean, because you still need artwork for online for sure, and vinyl's really big, and a lot of our artists like to have the physical kind of tangible record. Yeah, and you know, the beauty about what we do as a creative floor is the artist's kind of first stop is with us. So we get to sit with them and build out their mood board and figure out what they want their kind of look and identity to be. So I think just for me, you know, getting more into that sort of space where I'm like having more of an overarching role in print and video would be really interesting as a next step.

Tommy: How far ahead is a business like Capitol Records looking at technology and the different ways people are consuming the content?

Targa: We're pretty far ahead. We have like a whole, you know, it's a little bit out of what I do, but we do have like a really strong research team that's tapped into all of that and how music's being consumed and, you know, the algorithms and, you know, whether it's more beneficial to release a video day and date with the song or we should put out another piece of content or we should wait a week or whatever it might be. Every decision is very calculated and intelligently decided based on research that's out there.

Tommy: When you're watching video clips like Lil Nas, like these things that just blow up. Yeah, go viral. Gangnam Style. With a critical eye, are you running a critical eye over them as someone who, you know, makes this stuff?

Targa: No, I wish I made that video. So good.

Tommy: What do you take from seeing something like Lil Nas' film clip and the phenomenon?

Targa: Yeah, I mean, it's a moment in time, right? Every now and then you kind of strike gold with a video and you might create something and have no idea that it's gonna blow up like it does.

Tommy: Do you think these people creating these kind of things are thinking that? Like this is gonna be—

Targa: No, not at all. Just from personal experience, like where we've had things that have really done well, you just don't know. Or like I've created content that I thought would do incredibly well and didn't get the eyeballs on it.

Josh: Yeah, well it seems like the biggest creative killer is when a client says we want it to go viral. Oh. Is there any other— Buzzwords. Yeah, is there any other— statement or thing that happens? Warning signs? Yeah, warning signs in a meeting where it's like, actually, I think that we're on the wrong track here.

Targa: Yeah, like, I tend to get a bit wary when people, you know, want to go really left of centre or really outside the box, or we need something with shock value. Yeah, I think everyone's trying to create content that has repeat watchability, right? So that, you know, however that is, whether it's doing something shocking or really left of center, you know, people are just grasping at an innovative, different idea. But God, I mean, everything's recycled in one way or another, in my opinion. Yeah, we're all inspired by each other.

Tommy: Is there anything hard to— that you've found really hard to source, but you've got it for horror film clip?

Josh: Like the hand that's just on the left-hand side?

Targa: Do you know what? Oh, that's hard. Is it In the Office? Is that what it is? No, I just had a flashback to my first summer interning in New York when I was like 17. And Alicia Keys had to have the most specific colour purple for a piano in one of her film clips, videos. And I just remember calling every piano store supplier in New York City trying to track down this specific color, and it was so important. And you know when you're new, I remember my heart was like racing and the pressure was on. I was like, I have to find this piano.

Josh: Trying to describe a specific purple over the phone. How do you describe a color? How do you describe red? Purple, it's a maroon-y purple. Is that what you were saying?

Tommy: Pantone?

Josh: It's a pinky purple, closer to a hot pink than a purple.

Tommy: It's giving you an OG kind of—

Josh: Was that what it was?

Targa: Yeah, I think it was. God, it was so long ago. I just remember the anxiety. Did you get it?

Tommy: Yeah, yeah, we did. Oh, you got it. Great. Oh, good. Is there anything in this office that you've kept as a little memento? What are those rubber band balls?

Josh: Do they come like that? Are they rubber bands? Where are you looking?

Tommy: That's in something. Oh, that's a Christmas decoration.

Targa: Sorry to let you down. I mean, yeah, it's November. I haven't kept that many props apart from this chair, which was from a Katy Perry shoot. We've got 3 of them actually. The couch is very uncomfortable to sit on. Were they built for you? Built specifically for it, or is it? No, I think they were purchased props actually, but they, in the video, we had the nails painted on the back of them. She was getting her nails done at the salon. Oh, with an Aussie director. What's his name? Oh my gosh. It'll come back to me. Joel something or other. It's alright. Great Aussie director.

Josh: Can you, do you have to come to Los Angeles, do you think, as an artist artist to make it, or do you think there's other, or do you have to be in one of the big cities?

Targa: I don't think so. Just knowing some of the artists that we've discovered who are from far corners of the world. I think now with the internet, it's all up for grabs, right?

Tommy: Yeah. What about your job? What's back home that you could do that is of a similar level, I guess?

Targa: Back in England? Yeah.

Tommy: I mean, this is your home, right?

Targa: Yeah, it's funny. I mean, it isn't it? I bought the house to feel more at home and yet I feel more lonely than ever.

Josh: So when you got the house, yeah, what is the— 'cause Tommy and I don't buy places, but we haven't bought a house. We're planning on eventually, you know, we have our own home and I feel like that's, especially in Australia, it's the Australian dream that you buy a place and then it's like, you're not fucking paying rent anymore. And then it feels like you're winning even though you've got to still pay the bank. What was the feeling when you got the place? Is it sort of excitement at the beginning where you think, "I'm going to Airbnb out." Yeah, it was actually such a comedown when I got the place.

Targa: I was like, "I'm supposed to feel really settled and happy and LA's my home now," and it just felt very anticlimactic.

Josh: Was it because of the— you were doing what you could afford, which is in an area that was, you know—

Targa: Yeah, like I love the house, but the area, like I really I really miss walking. I really miss like knocking on my friend's door and saying, hey, you want to go for a skate at the beach? You know, do you roller skate?

Josh: A skateboard. A skateboard. Oh, that's cool.

Tommy: Did you go just from a skate to roller skating?

Targa: No, I was thinking of rollerskates. He was being sexist.

Josh: No, I wasn't. I was literally thinking about Venice and all that. Something like a short, short action.

Targa: Oh, that's true. On the boardwalk.

Josh: Yeah. No, I like both. No, so roller skating. How long have you been doing that for? Skateboarding. Skateboard. I see. I was calling roller skating I was calling skateboarding roller skating.

Tommy: There is a roller skating rink though in LA. I see my friend at all the time. Really?

Targa: Yeah. Oh, I think it's out in the valley.

Josh: Yeah, yeah.

Targa: So skateboarding, how long have you done skateboarding? Um, oh, quite a while, maybe 8 years.

Josh: And so can you actually get around? I get around.

Targa: I'm transport. Okay. Yeah, less here in Venice. I used to skateboard all around Venice and Santa Monica where I live. No, it's more just, you know, just for a night kind of skate, dodging bullets. Yeah. But yeah, when I lived in Brooklyn, I used it to get around everywhere, which was why I learned.

Josh: Well, the Lime and the Bird scooters.

Tommy: Oh yeah. What's your relationship with these electric scooters?

Targa: Very much love-hate.

Tommy: Love-hate?

Targa: Yeah. Love them when you— When I really am in a pinch and like can't find a parking spot near the beach, so I have to park 10 blocks back. Back and get on one.

Josh: But so you really— you actually use them if you like?

Targa: If I'm really in a pinch. But what bothers me is that there isn't— they're getting better, but when they first came out, they were just strewn across the sidewalk like litter. And I was— I'd come out my house in Venice because that's where they started. It's like the testing ground. And there would just be 5 of them piled up on my stoop, and I'd have to constantly step over them. And it just was really— it was quite sad to see. It was almost like society— just another example of how we just discard things and just have no respect for the planet and like our stuff, you know what I mean?

Tommy: Yeah, I think since we've been here, since we came last year, I think it's, they're less scattered.

Josh: Yeah, I mean, they're not like on the ground.

Tommy: Well, I tried to get on one last night and it was like, they zoned it out because there was a festival on. Have you had that before? They've actually turned them off?

Targa: I haven't had that, but they zone you out of where you can park it, which frustrates me because then all of a sudden you're not aware and it's like a $35 fine. Oh really? Oh really? It starts buzzing. Watch out.

Tommy: It starts tweeting like a bird. Oh, I didn't get that.

Targa: I just got the fine. Thanks. Thanks, Uber.

Josh: And so driving Los Angeles is like a city that requires a car, I guess.

Targa: Definitely. Public transport's getting better. I've shockingly never ridden on it. On it. But what is the public?

Josh: Buses, I guess.

Targa: Buses and subway. There is a subway which actually now goes by my house.

Tommy: What about things like Elon Musk's tunnel that he's building? Oh, yeah. I mean, I hear about that. I think I hear about this sort of gimmicky things more so through the news.

Targa: I mean, I don't know if that's real.

Josh: We saw a jetpack once. Yeah. Is that real?

Targa: Pretty cool. No, that's not real. But have you heard much of that? No, you probably know more than I do. I thought it was just an urban myth.

Josh: Yeah, I thought the tunnel's more like a trial type of thing to actually see if it's—

Tommy: They want to do Burbank to the airport, right? So it's like a few minutes in the jet speed tunnel. Yeah, like a bullet train, right? Well, they're capsules that are sent, projected, and they've got on tracks and they— I don't know I don't know. Mr. 97's probably read The Verge and knows more about it.

Josh: Well, Mr. 97 does an LA fact of the day normally, but now that we're in LA, we thought if when we have guests on, they could give us a fact. What is your LA fact?

Tommy: Could be a Target fact. That's something that you've noticed.

Targa: That's really hard. I don't know if I can answer that.

Josh: What about like food-wise? Like, is there a food— it could be a recommendation. That's easier. If someone's coming to LA.

Tommy: Best burgers, fact. Oh, that's In-N-Out always.

Targa: Yeah, we went to In-N-Out.

Josh: But the thing is, I went veggie. Do you know what the vegetarian burger is like at In-N-Out?

Targa: Isn't it a cheese melt?

Josh: Is that what they call it? It was just a burger without the beef. Or as Kroger said— Yeah, someone said it was a salad roll. Salad roll. I don't— I think it had cheese in it, but it was sad. It felt like it was missing the actual thing that you need. So, what's your recommendation?

Tommy: It doesn't have to be food, could be a place to visit. Place to see, tourist trap?

Targa: Tourist trap. God, there's too many. I would say what's kind of undiscovered. Oh, you know, I was downtown today for the climate change, youth climate change rally, even though I'm a bit old. I did feel really old down there, by the way. And I realised that there's this whole undiscovered part of LA that I've never been to down there. It's like the Walt Disney Music Hall, the Broad, which is the new, well, relatively new museum that's down there. A slew of great restaurants are popping up and it felt— I felt like I was on vacation. City Hall, that whole Grand Park that's there is just beautiful and it was really like vivacious. Yeah, I was— my mind was blown actually. It felt like a different city and I'd never seen that part of town. So— Have they—

Tommy: is it fresh or is it—

Targa: No, I think just more things have been coming up and I just haven't looked at it with the right sort of perspective before, in the right lens.

Tommy: Well, you said your area is like up-and-coming. Mine's up-and-coming. What makes it up-and-coming? Hipster cafes.

Targa: Yeah, definitely that. Which cafes? There's one called Highly Likely, which is really hipster. Everyone, you know, with beards and like cool glasses and on their laptops all day.

Josh: What sort of milk do you get? Almond or oat?

Targa: I'm an oat milk kind of gal. You know, $6 turmeric latte. Yeah, yeah, correct. That's how you know it's hipster. No, I'm hot. I'm hot even, I'm even hot coffee when it's 100 degrees out.

Tommy: Have you done less turmeric $6 lattes since you've got your mortgage?

Targa: Yeah, definitely. Yeah, I make them at home now. Oh really?

Josh: Matcha lattes. How do you make them at home?

Targa: I go for the matcha lattes or I get like a golden turmeric blend.

Josh: So is it matcha, like the green powder? Green, whisk it up, bamboo whisk.

Targa: Whisk. I got the bamboo whisk.

Josh: Did you get the ceremonial?

Targa: It has to be ceremonial grade.

Josh: I got the bowl and I was like, what is this?

Tommy: Yeah, exactly.

Targa: Yeah, it was just like, it was like, first you get the ceremonial grade organic matcha and then you get the bamboo whisk. I just do it in the teacup. And you love the taste? Yeah, I do, because I came off the coffee about 6 months Yeah, and so was it— My adrenals were just tapped.

Tommy: Does it give you a bit of a buzz or no?

Targa: Yeah, it's caffeinated but very antioxidant.

Josh: Did the doctor say the adrenal, like did you get blood tests or whatever? And they're like, how do you know? 'Cause I feel like I'm pretty—

Targa: I'm really in tune with my body and I've been doing a lot of my like thing that I love to do on the side is health coaching. So I'm really well versed in health. And I've, yeah, I've done a bunch of hormone adrenal tests But it's just obvious that if you're stressed enough in life, yeah, and that like constant drip, drip, drip, like the cortisol that our adrenals are giving off and just messing up, you know, our hormones and messing with our organs and all of it. Like if, you know, undoubtedly if you're not getting enough deep rest and sleep and you're generally stressed at a very low level, then you're probably drinking coffee, you're probably, probably adrenally fatigued. Yeah, that's a dead giveaway.

Josh: Yeah, yeah. I didn't realise how much caffeine, there's more caffeine in iced, like cold brews? Oh yeah, definitely. I didn't know that. And so the last time we were here we had an interview and it was, yeah, it was like at a, where were we, city, what's that, Studio City, we had an interview and we're waiting and I just had this big like American style, like yeah, cup of cold brew and then I was like going in saying hi to them shaking, sweating. Well I guess like having 4 or 5 coffees a day It's not really doing anything to you after the first couple.

Tommy: Is that what you—

Targa: is that a different vibe? I would only have one a day. But the reason I knew it was a problem was when I came off it, I got massive headaches and cravings, like withdrawal symptoms. So that's, you know, a strong indication that one a day is messing you up.

Josh: So do you feel better now? So much better.

Targa: I've got more energy, sleeping better. It was a hard transition, but—

Tommy: Yeah, I mean, why don't we listen to our body? 'cause I mean, even today eating, I had a massive burrito. I was like, I got to a point and I said to myself, if I was to listen to myself, I'd stop now.

Targa: But I kept going. Portions here are so big and you feel so obligated to finish them all. I can hear my mom in the back of my head like, there's starving children in the world, you know, finish your food. But then you finish, yeah, there's too much waste.

Josh: And are you a breakfast, lunch, or dinner person? Which is your favourite meal? Breakfast. And what did you— what do you have?

Targa: Oh, it's boring now because I've gone vegan to try and save the planet. So what is it? Yeah, I make like an amazing super smoothie, um, with a NutriBullet. Yeah. Okay. Or I'll do without milk, without milk, and like great protein powders and like fruit.

Josh: What sort of protein powder?

Targa: It's a complete meal, complex one, like organic, lots of different good things. This is riveting for your— no, this is good. Everyone loves You know, I'm so like, I put the, you know, what you call it? The spirulina, Hawaiian, has to be Hawaiian algae, all of my essential oils, all of my supplements go in so I don't have to swallow too many. Yeah, I put lots of like tonics and potions and coconut oil and yeah, so mostly a smoothie.

Josh: What's your favourite essential oil?

Tommy: I saw some over here. Can I grab one? You can tell us about it. Yeah. I like blue, so I'm gonna pick blue. It's almost the Daily Talk Show blue. Oh yeah, it is. Peace on it. Peace.

Targa: So this is a grounding blend. It's, it's a mix. It's for kind of reassuring you if you're in a very stressful, anxious time of your life.

Josh: So I would do it.

Targa: You inhale. The best way to do it is kind of like a bong, like put a drop in your hand.

Tommy: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Sorry. Then what are you going to do?

Targa: Now rub your— where are you going to rub? Oh, you've got the mic in your hand.

Tommy: I can do this with my hand.

Josh: What about—

Targa: Yeah, my hand. Hand. Like that? Yeah, and then just like a—

Tommy: like that. Mmm, smells good.

Targa: Are you feeling left out?

Josh: Yeah, thank you. Okay, what do you think about all the marijuana stuff that's happening at the moment with it? Like the MC— what's the— CBD, all that sort of stuff. Have you been into MedMen?

Tommy: No, we're going to. It's busier than Apple Store.

Targa: Yeah, it looks like the Apple Store. It's ridiculous.

Tommy: People in red, like all the workers.

Targa: Everything's on iPads. It's so sleek and you go in there and you're not really sure what you're going in to buy. And it's crazy. And they, the one on Abbot Kinney is especially in Venice. They started off really small. They bought out the building next to them and expanded. It's bigger than Apple.

Josh: Gummies, I wonder if they're veggie though, 'cause they probably got like, what's it called?

Tommy: As if they aren't doing vegan gummies in the States.

Josh: Gelatin? As if they're not. You would think.

Targa: Are you really strict vegan?

Josh: No. No, no.

Tommy: Andy doesn't take marijuana.

Josh: Yeah. But they've ruled. Yeah, but do you, because some people take it for sleep, do you take it for sleep or do any of that stuff? Sometimes. Yeah. And what does it do?

Targa: Does it mellow? Yeah, it really mellows me, puts me into deep sleep. Okay. Yeah, I might microdose just to kind of mellow me, but I don't really use it that much. Yeah, which one's this specifically? A CBD gummy.

Tommy: Okay. Yeah. And so we walk around, it's just like, you smell it and you're like, oh my God. In Australia, it's obviously, it's illegal now. What's been the shift in seeing it go from have a licence to completely legal for adults.

Targa: You basically get contact high everywhere you walk in LA, which frustrates me because I didn't smoke. Contact high?

Josh: I think maybe I was contact high. Definitely not. Yesterday. I just felt a little bit, but also we hadn't eaten. So I think my blood sugar levels.

Tommy: You'd know.

Targa: Combination, but if you were in Venice, chances are, but yeah, for me it's like smoking cigarettes is banned in public places and in the streets and at the beach. So, I think marijuana should be because I don't want to smoke secondhand smoke from anyone.

Josh: Yeah, it's interesting because it seems like there's such a big— there's a lot of celebrities getting behind it and all that sort of thing. I wonder if there's going to be a correction where it's like, "Okay, now that legislation is through in all these different places—" What's the vibe?

Tommy: You know, Friday night drinks obviously is a thing at most workplaces.

Josh: Yeah, is it still taboo if your boss is having a joint?

Targa: Yeah, it kind of is. Yeah, I wouldn't. Like, I haven't seen anyone do it in the workplace, or having a gun at your desk, or smoke a ciggy. Like, we have a little corner around the side to have a— I mean, everywhere, and it's taboo to smoke a cigarette in LA.

Josh: And that's very— really?

Tommy: I didn't know that.

Josh: Well, Australia, I think it's the same.

Targa: I think, like, it's just so health conscious. So you literally can't walk down Hollywood Boulevard? No, I wouldn't do that.

Tommy: See, that's not the same in Australia. There's a bunch of no smoking zones. Yeah, sure, but you can walk down down having 6 cigarettes in your mouth.

Targa: I don't know why, but just need that nicotine.

Josh: Yeah, yeah. But what about vaping?

Targa: Vaping's very, uh, that you can do walking down the street. So again, there's double standards. Frustrates me.

Tommy: But it's amazing that you can't smoke walking down the street, but you can smoke.

Targa: You can, it's just taboo. It's taboo. You might, if you're on the beach or the boardwalk, it is illegal. So beach, boardwalk, yeah, it's the same. Public spaces, per se, but in the street, and it's probably just frowned upon.

Tommy: It's a gronkh move. That's what it is. It's just like, don't put someone else out just because you want a durry.

Josh: Targa, thank you so much for, on your Friday, staying back late and just chatting to us. It's a pleasure. Yeah, it's been heaps of fun, and we can't say—

Targa: Sorry it wasn't funny.

Josh: Sorry, I mean, it's sorry enough. That was funny. Yeah, that was good. Good way to end. It's The Daily Talk Show. If you want to email us, hi@thedailytalkshow.com. Otherwise, we'll see you tomorrow, guys.

Tommy: See you guys.