Sarah Grynberg, A life Of Greatness

Tommy: The Daily Talk Show. It's The Daily Talk Show, episode 477.

Josh: It's Sarah Greenberg in the building. I was about to say it's Weekend Banter with Sarah Greenberg.

Sarah: Hello.

Tommy: From The Life of Greatness.

Josh: A Life of Greatness.

Tommy: A Life of Greatness.

Sarah: You nearly got it right. You did. You just forgot the A. Yeah.

Tommy: Did I say The Life of Greatness? You did, mate.

Josh: You did. So we're just talking because that's your podcast and we're saying how Josh has a memory of a goldfish and you You can't remember stuff when you're trying to remember it.

Sarah: But I'm like Josh as well. Okay. Like, honestly, if I'm told to remember something, I get really nervous about it and then I forget it. It's really hard. But then I'll remember like other facts that are completely insignificant. Okay.

Tommy: It's like, like it's a delayed memory type of thing. I can remember how to say Dadaskaloo. We had a guy named Ethan on. I fucked up his last name, but now it's in my mind forever. Yeah. So we need to have Ethan Dadaskaloo back on the show so you can get it right.

Sarah: Yeah.

Tommy: What else?

Josh: I'm going to say is the number 82, and at the end I'm going to ask you which number I said at the start.

Tommy: So we'll look back. What does that mean?

Josh: She has to remember the number that I just said, but I can't say it again. So don't you say it again. You get it once, and the test is to see if Sarah can remember it by the end of the podcast.

Tommy: So, Grinner, fabulous.

Josh: And Mr. 97, if I forget to bring it up, can you bring it up that we need to ask it?

Tommy: Yeah, great.

Josh: Just in case.

Tommy: Brought up a number as well with Mr. 97.

Josh: Yeah, yeah.

Tommy: The reason he's— do you know why he's called Mr. 97?

Sarah: No.

Tommy: He got a 97 interscore.

Sarah: That's amazing.

Tommy: We think it's amazing.

Josh: I can imagine, Sarah, you would get quite high. Would you?

Sarah: I did. I got 94.

Josh: Okay. So I mean, not as good as this guy.

Sarah: Not good as 97 over there, but 94 is all right.

Josh: Yeah, but he didn't produce Rahim Shenanti, so he's just doing us. Jesus. So, Sarah, I remember seeing you when I was trying to slither my way into SCA.

Sarah: I know.

Josh: Which I eventually did.

Sarah: You did.

Josh: So it worked.

Tommy: Slimy little sucker.

Josh: I am, but I I think the last time I saw you was when your belly was way out here and you were around the office.

Sarah: That's right. I did, because you did some work on the rush hour and stuff.

Josh: Yeah. So I was— I worked from level 2 and I got my way up to level 3.

Sarah: You did, because you were a street teamer as well. And you were the street teamer that did work for me because I was in activation.

Josh: Exactly.

Sarah: And I loved you. You're one of my favorites.

Josh: Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. But I will have you know that I did the rush hour first. And then I went to street team. Yeah, I wasn't street team to rush out.

Tommy: Is that good?

Josh: Um, yeah, but no, I don't want to be seen as the slimy, slimy street teamer that tried to weasel his way on air. So you sold out? I just took more income from over here. Yeah.

Tommy: And then you're entrepreneurial, like an internal entrepreneur. Yeah.

Josh: Um, so you, so you had your hand in the street team stuff. I feel like the street team attracts an interesting type of characters.

Sarah: It does. I was never in the street team. I went straight into activation when I started.

Tommy: Not that there's anything wrong with that.

Sarah: No, some of the best people at SCA, Southern Cross Austereo, started in the street team and they're like the biggest producers in the country now, or, you know, big celebrities and stuff. So I was an activation person and then that's how I met you because you were hanging about, but you were very good at your job.

Tommy: Well, memory-wise, I might not have a good, uh, short-term memory, but I do— I feel like I'm good at remembering things that are further away. We met— actually, do you want to say how? Yeah, yeah. How do you remember?

Sarah: So I remember that we were— I think I was coming after— I was on maternity leave and they asked me to help out on a Fifi and Jules, like, a stunt. And Fifi was actually on maternity leave, so we had Sophie, Monk and Jewels. And so we travelled with Sophie, Monk and Jewels to Adelaide.

Tommy: Yes.

Sarah: And, and you were there as well. And that's how I met you. And we did this, we did this thing with a— where we parked a car in a random person's house.

Tommy: Suzuki car swap.

Sarah: Yes. And, and basically they, they had entered the competition, but a zillion people had, so they didn't know that they were going to win. And then they walked outside and went and the the young girl was blind. I do remember that. And basically they saw that there was a new car in there, in their garage. It was amazing. And we did that all in the middle of the night.

Tommy: Yeah, I just remember the— what I remember is just the— I think we had toasted sandwiches.

Sarah: I remember that.

Josh: Me too.

Sarah: Yeah.

Tommy: So we— I had status with Virgin Australia and I thought I was a real top dog. And I think we went in, we went left together.

Sarah: It was only the two of us.

Tommy: And I remember having a toasted sandwich. That's the main thing I remember.

Sarah: Well, I remember. So basically we went to the airport. Everyone else was like staying on. And that's when we became kind of like we bonded because it was just the two of us. And I was new to Instagram. And you said, Sarah, I'll show you how to take an Instagram photo. And you put our boarding pass and then the toasted cheese sandwich down.

Josh: Oh my God.

Sarah: And you took a photo and then you put a beautiful filter over it and you're like, post that, post that.. And I was like, oh, okay. And then I posted it. And then basically I think he left the company a couple of months later, but that's how I remember you.

Tommy: So do you still have that Instagram post up?

Sarah: I don't.

Tommy: I want to have a look.

Josh: Or did you?

Sarah: I actually think I took it down.

Tommy: You got home or you did?

Sarah: No, I think I did.

Tommy: I think I did.

Sarah: You think? I did.

Tommy: I did.

Sarah: Okay.

Tommy: So there's no copy.

Sarah: I had left it on, on, I think it could have been Instagram or Facebook.

Tommy: It was Instagram.

Sarah: It was Instagram. I took it down many years ago, but it was a good introduction on how to like place things in nicely with a nice aesthetic view and put a filter.

Josh: But obviously the wrong subject because it went down.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: So you did everything else right.

Tommy: But that's right. It's basically all I remember was that being on a flight and I was very excited about the toasted sandwiches potentially.

Sarah: And I remember also we were just chatting and we nearly forgot our flight and they were calling us and we had to run. Do you remember that, Ben?

Tommy: I don't remember that.

Sarah: We were running. I remember that.

Josh: I can just imagine toasted sandwich in hand. I'm coming, Sarah.

Sarah: I'm coming.

Josh: So we've all sort of slithered our way from the level 2 upwards because then you, you came back and then was that pre-producing for Hey Machine Andy?

Sarah: Yes. So basically I've been at Austereo for 9 years and I was in activation and then I moved on to doing producing. I was doing the weekend breakfast shows, producing that for a while, and then I went on to produce the Sydney morning breakfast show. For a while, and then I moved into PodcastOne. And then when I moved into PodcastOne, which was 2 years ago, that's when I started producing for Hamish and Andy.

Josh: Yeah.

Sarah: Yeah. As well as a few other things.

Josh: Producing a breakfast show from Melbourne for Sydney.

Sarah: Oh yeah.

Josh: Is it? I mean, it's an interesting thing because we had Kate Mead on who does a show in Warrnambool, but it's sent around Victoria. So it's not like a regional breakfast show where it's kind of in your region.

Tommy: It's syndicated, right?

Josh: So She has people coming to a radio station up in Wangaratta delivering, hey, this is for, this is for Kate. Can you please pass it on to her?

Sarah: Oh my God.

Josh: Imagine doing it at the scale of a metro station.

Sarah: It was completely high tech. So basically the studio that we actually do a lot of the podcast productions out of was turned into the breakfast studio. So they just push, you know, push a button. The blinds went down. It's like 5 different studios, Hamish and Andy, Today FM Breakfast, Podcast One. Anyway, so then there were cameras all above the top of the studio and we had a link to all the people that were in Sydney because we still, still had the news person in Sydney, some other producers in Sydney. All the phones were done out of Sydney. That was brilliant. So as producers in Melbourne, we didn't have to do phones and— but the talent were in Melbourne as well. So it was like between each break we'd all kind of go into the studio and talk and talk, and then we'd come out. And then at the end of the show we'd have a meeting. But it was all like looking at the content director in Sydney through the cameras. And it was— can I tell you, it actually worked pretty well considering, you know, that we're in two different states.

Tommy: Do you think we'll get to a point? Because I've got a dream of one day doing a podcast where I live remotely. I don't see anyone. I've got like a booth and I go into it and Tommy's somewhere else. We do the show.

Sarah: Yeah.

Tommy: Do you reckon that, that like, do you think that that is positive for the future or do you think that that takes away from, from something?

Sarah: I mean, I personally feel, and I'm sure you guys are the same, that having an interview face to face is, you know, it's so much nicer and that you can just read the people's cues better.

Tommy: And I'm reading them wrong either way.

Sarah: So, and but majority of the interviews that I do for A Life of Greatness are via Zoom because I interview a lot of overseas people. So look, it's it's still a great way to chat to people and have them on.

Tommy: Is there a way of building rapport when you're not in the same room?

Sarah: It's harder. I find it's harder. Like, you know, you've got the kind of few minutes to chat before, and sometimes the person just wants to get straight into the interview. So, you're like, okay, let's do this. And then afterwards, I kind of just want to get off. So, it is harder, but it depends on the person as well.

Josh: Gretchen Rubin.

Sarah: I did have Gretchen Rubin.

Josh: That was over the, over the phone.

Sarah: Yeah, that one was via Skype. Okay. Um, that's when, before we discovered Zoom. Have you discovered Zoom?

Josh: Well, we tried everything and then we went to FaceTime. It's actually one of the greatest things.

Sarah: Is it?

Josh: Yeah, it's flawless.

Sarah: Really?

Josh: We did 100 shows. Josh was remote throughout Europe and we did FaceTime.

Tommy: We tried IP down the line, which is sort of $80 a month.

Sarah: Yeah, which is just not worth it.

Tommy: And because they're trying to do low, high low latency, high fidelity. But the problem is that it requires great internet connections where FaceTime has made it work where even if it's a bit of a shit connection, it still does pretty well. Like there's actually studios like in the UK or whatever, and they have like a bunch of Mac computers that are all connected into the studios and they just run FaceTime. Anyway, that's a bit of inside baseball. But anyway, so Zoom's—

Sarah: I've been— I've done quite a lot of this round for Series 3 of A Life of Greatness that will be out out in a few months, all the overseas interviews I've done via Zoom, and they've been really, really good, really great quality.

Josh: And I guess it is that there is so much in the, in the room rapport building. You do find rapport throughout a conversation too.

Sarah: 100%.

Josh: With, with someone like Gretchen, how do you go in? Are you trying to build rapport? What are you doing? Like, are you wanting to start it out to try and slowly roll into it.

Sarah: Correct. Her and I were emailing directly before that, so we kind of built a bit of a rapport on that level.

Josh: You were signing off with XO at the end.

Sarah: Yeah, totally. Love you always, Sarah. And then throughout the interview, I suppose, you know, when someone's talking about your work and how much they appreciate it and all that kind of stuff, then you, you know, you're going to start really liking them and what they're talking about anyway. So the rapport is naturally built, you know. So I think it's, it's a very natural thing when you're focusing on, you know, the fruits of their labor.

Josh: Which is, you know, I mean, we all— a lot of people like to indulge at times when they— because they're having to use brain power to think about their experience in life, a life of greatness. Yeah, the name of the pocket— you're exploring what it means.

Sarah: Well, what greatness means to them. So basically I interview people who have achieved greatness in their life or are just living a life that is great, or they're thought leaders, bestselling authors who give tips and tricks on how to lead a great life.

Josh: And so what's a great life for you?

Sarah: A great life for me is a life of humility, a life of speaking your truth, a life of service, um, and, um, just being able to do good in the world. That's a life of greatness.

Josh: That was my motto in the street team, to be honest. No, but I love that. Obviously it's something you've thought about and articulated before.

Sarah: Yes.

Josh: Do you think that the people you speak to, the wide range of people, have thought about what a life of greatness means to them?

Sarah: Well, it's actually really nice. Uh, I, I think some of them have, and a guy that I interviewed on series Bruce too. His name's Bruce Lipton. He's just an absolute dude. Anyway, he's about— I think he's in his 70s.

Tommy: What is an absolute dude?

Sarah: He's just such a good guy, you know, like, you know, when you meet someone via Zoom but you just have a rapport with them and, you know, and he was just calling me, I think it was darling, throughout the interview. And I just, I felt like I'd known him before I met him, kind of, you know.

Tommy: No, no, don't start calling Dahl, bit of Karl Sandler style.

Josh: You can't do that.

Sarah: He's an older man, so it kind of like, it was a nicer thing.

Tommy: Well, that's why I thought like, dude, I straight away went to, I imagined he had a skateboard, but in this context.

Josh: You could call Ben Fordham a dude.

Sarah: Yeah, Ben Fordham's a dude.

Josh: He just exudes, just, I love that man. I want to be, I want to do what you do.

Tommy: You know, I've never heard someone being called a dude. Have you?

Josh: Yeah, but not, not It's interesting to hear. I appreciate you asking why. Yeah, I got to do it.

Tommy: Sorry to interrupt.

Sarah: No, that's okay. And it's a good question. So he's just such a beautiful soul. And I asked him what a life of greatness was, and it was not dissimilar to my answer. And then I saw that he had posted it. By the way, Bruce Lipton is kind of one of the godfathers of exploring like epigenetics. So So then I saw that he posted on Facebook, and he does a lot of posts on Facebook, a life of greatness to him. And I thought, oh, he's listened to the interview, go Bruce. And B, he's obviously listened to his answer and really liked it and thought it was a really good question. So yeah, that was—

Tommy: no boarding passes, no toasties. No, no, on Facebook.

Josh: Well, I think it's a simple question, but it's usually the simple questions that we don't work out how to articulate.

Sarah: Well, that's it. And you know what, nearly— because that's the question that I finish with for every person that I interview: what is a life of greatness to you? And nearly every answer has those kind of similarities of what I mentioned to you.

Tommy: Have you found that it takes a while to warm up when you're interviewing?

Sarah: Um, I— with some people, no, let me think about this. Actually, not really. There was someone I interviewed the other day who I absolutely love, and I thought to myself, is he in a bad mood? Have you ever had that where I was like, oh, I have it every day? I thought, is he a little bit grumpy? But then 5 minutes in, he was fine.

Tommy: So, so it did take a groove, like, but do you— I guess the style of what you're doing, have you come up with the questions and you're going through them in sort of a sequential order to get to the main one, or do you have a strategy?

Sarah: So, well, basically, I, I don't know what you guys do, but I take a lot of time to research.

Tommy: Yeah, yeah, you're saying all the reasons.

Josh: I've got 5 pages in front of me, if you're listening.

Sarah: I will spend at least a day researching the person. We'll obviously know about them before, hence why I ask them to come on, and then I'll do a lot of research into them. Uh, I do have questions in front of me, but I'm sure as you guys do, I like to just speak about whatever they're, you know, based on what they answer, then I'll start talking. And it's, you know, an interactive chat. And one thing is as well that I make sure I do is I listen. So I don't sit there thinking, oh God, I've got to ask this question next. And I also don't need to have all the questions set, you know, it's just there as a guide. You know, your biggest fear is that they'll answer you in like one word and then you go, Okay, I got half an hour to go. Yeah, yeah. So, but you know what, that's never happened. So I do have a few questions always set at the end that I will definitely make sure that I get to, but otherwise, you know, it's, it's just a nice chat. But I, I am always so taken aback at the amount of information people give me, and sometimes, you know, how humble and how beautiful and raw some of the interviews I've had have been. Like I walk away and I think, God, I've got a good job. Like, this is, this is really nice.

Tommy: Did you know that you wanted to be behind the mic early on, or is that something that through producing you've sort of got a taste for?

Sarah: Completely through producing.

Josh: And what are the telltale signs in case we see Mr. 97 sniffing around?

Tommy: He keeps his mic up. So that's—

Sarah: Yeah, he's all good. I can tell.

Tommy: You mean he wants to be behind the camera?

Josh: No threat.

Sarah: I know I didn't always want to be behind the mic. I think as a producer, basically you watch people being interviewed and also editing interviews. I'd notice that people sometimes host would talk over the other person a lot and I think, oh, why don't they ask them this question? Or, you know, that kind of stuff. And I, I don't watch so much of it now, but as a young one, I was obsessed with 60 Minutes. Oh yeah, like I just love 60 Minutes and I just love the way that they would interview people and I love the in-depth side. Subject matter. And I just— as me as a person, I remember a lot of people would always say, God, you're a really good listener. And I'd— my friends would always say, how, how do you know that about that person? I'd be like, well, they told me. Like, people would open up to me. And so I was reflecting on how I got to this point in my life, and I remembered all that stuff. So it completely wasn't something that I'd wanted to achieve. It kind of just came out of just a conversation with my boss one day, and it was like, yeah, do this podcast, you should host it because you know all about this subject matter. And bang, there you go.

Josh: We were actually talking about that today, where positions or things or jobs that people who were in them, it's not necessarily like you said, I want to be a podcast host, and then you're working towards and you become the podcast host. Or it could be, you know, because you can get the job as a podcast host or you can become the podcast host in a completely different way. So it could be a journalist doing music writing. It's like the person that ends up doing it might not be the person obsessed with music.

Sarah: Yeah.

Josh: Like most people are going to the course to do, you know, journalism for music or something, you know.

Sarah: Well, that's it. And I'm like genuinely fascinated to hear the storeys that these people tell. So I think I always think I'm going to ask the questions that I think everyone else would love to hear. Um, and that's basically what I've done.

Tommy: Do you have a favourite question that you always go back to?

Sarah: Would be, what is a life of greatness to you? But I also—

Josh: and I asked it first.

Sarah: Yeah, exactly. Um, I like to start off with the history of the person, so basically getting an understanding of why they moved into the area that they're in, or what their family life was like, because I think a lot of the time that kind of starts forming who the person is now. So it's usually those kind of storeys that I, I think are really interesting for the listener to hear as well.

Tommy: When did you know that you wanted to get into radio and how did you even get there?

Sarah: It's funny, you know, because I worked at a lot of corporates before, so I was at the NAB, I was at realestate.com, I was at Census working Yellow Pages, doing all this marketing kind of stuff. But when I was young, like during school, I loved acting. Like all I wanted to do was be an actor. And so I did theatre studies and drama and all this kind of stuff. And then I got an agent, I think just after year 12, and I did all these TV commercials and, you know, I was an extra on Neighbours and all these really cool roles.

Tommy: And you're on IMDb. Are you on IMDb?

Sarah: No, I definitely would not.

Tommy: Well, you will be because we do the daily talk show. We have an IMDb. And so you'll be a guest appearance will be But that's amazing.

Sarah: Thank you, guys. And so that was, you know, that's probably where that kind of thing started from anyway.

Tommy: So then we can't remember scripts either. So that would be an issue.

Sarah: I always think about that as well. Thank God I didn't go into doing film. Yeah, I don't remember anything. So then I studied a postgrad in PR and I did PR for a little while at an entertainment PR firm and it was horrendous. And I was like, no, this is not for me. And then I fell into marketing somehow.

Tommy: What was horrendous about it?

Josh: Too much rah rah.

Sarah: The lady wasn't very nice that ran the PR firm, and she used to scream at us all day. So, and that was my first job. And I thought, oh, this is obviously what it's like to just be in the workforce. Like, no joke. That's what I, that's what I felt. And I was doing my postgrad in PR at the time. I think I was like 18 or 19. No, no, I would have been older. So it might have been like in 20 or something like that. And I just thought, okay, maybe working's not for me. Maybe working's not for me.

Tommy: This is what it's about.

Sarah: Anyway, so that was just that occasion because I haven't found that ever since.

Josh: And it will stop, Mason.

Sarah: And then I was basically working marketing for ages and I was working in marketing at realestate.com, which used to be not far from where these studios are. And I would walk past the Nova. Nova used to be there. I think Nova is still there. I used to walk past the door at Nova and I used to just look in and think, oh God, it would be so nice to work there. And then just walk away. And then a friend of mine said, God, I can imagine you working there. I thought, so can I. And then one thing led to another. I went on an overseas trip. I came back and I was like, it's time for a new job.

Tommy: Like, what year was it?

Sarah: Oh God, I cannot remember. It was like about 10 years ago.

Tommy: So REA would have been early, like early tech sort of thing. And then it was so at that time, was it, was tech not glam? Like, because I guess it's things are starting to shift.

Sarah: It was definitely not glamorous then and it is really glamorous now. And that business is unbelievably successful and the people there are divine. It was just that I, I yearned for something more, right? And then I thought, you know what, there's one guy I know that works at Austereo. I'm going to just email him and see if there are any jobs. And I did. And he said, oh my God, there is a job that's completely in the area that your, you know, your passion lies and what you want to do. He emailed me the job description. I applied and bang, I got the job.

Tommy: And so did you end up doing with the Nova stuff? Did anything come of that or no?

Sarah: It wasn't Nova. It was just the place. And so then moving to Austereo, that was the kind of equivalent. Yeah.

Tommy: What do you think? What was it that excited you about the whole radio?

Sarah: I just loved entertainment. So the first PR firm I ever worked in was the entertainment PR firm I loved. And that was where the acting thing, I think, was as well. I just, since I was 4 years old, I love the world of entertainment. So there was just something about it that I just I just got a kick from and I thought, this is, you know, when you know this is supposed to be your place, like, you know, it's like your soul is supposed to follow this direction. And that's kind of what I've felt now doing producing and interviewing people. Like, I have no doubt this is the path that I was always supposed to be on.

Tommy: Do you remember the first tactic or thing that you worked on at SEA?

Sarah: I don't remember the first one, but I remember the biggest one. It was— do you remember, Tommy, for Mother energy drink? Were you around there? So do you remember Brett?

Josh: No.

Sarah: Well, Fitzie. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Josh: He's one of my best mates.

Sarah: Yes.

Tommy: I love that you always call him Brett.

Josh: No one's called him Brett for 20 years.

Tommy: Fitzie's been in this building.

Sarah: Has he?

Josh: Yeah.

Sarah: So I— we did this amazing— we're actually talking about it the other day. We did this amazing promotion for Mother energy drink and basically we all were given different tasks that we had to do. And mine was we had to go to a shooting range and it was with the Peanut Gallery. Do you remember them?

Josh: Yes.

Sarah: Yes. The two guys that did that. And so then I had to get this dark costume made and they had to like run across as people was doing paintball, but it was out in this amazing paintball place in Woop Woop somewhere. And then another one of the activations was this giant-sized duck. Have you seen them before?

Tommy: Yeah, I've seen giant ducks.

Sarah: Like, like literally like as big as the ceiling, like giant-sized ducks. And they— and one of my colleagues got that and put it on the Yarra and we did all these amazing things. It was, it was like the glory days.

Tommy: One thing I find with radio is I feel like I had an extremely unhealthy lifestyle at radio. The free, all the free cake. Yeah, every time MasterChef had like a promo, they would send cupcakes.

Sarah: Yes.

Tommy: And I remember the salary being not great as a digital content producer back then.

Sarah: Still not.

Tommy: And so I was like, you fucking eat whatever you're given. And they had a Max Brenner downstairs. I would have an Italian hot chocolate and then eat the That actually went out of business the year after I left. I think there's some sort of correlation. How do you keep your health and diet in cheque when you're working at a radio station?

Sarah: I'll tell you what, doing the breakfast show, that was the hardest I've ever gone through as far as like keeping your diet in cheque because you're waking up at 4 a.m., you're exhausted, you get to work, you've eaten your breakfast by 5.

Tommy: What would you have for breakfast?

Sarah: I'd usually have muesli, fruit. Yogurt.

Tommy: It's being very consistent. You said you had that today as well.

Sarah: I did. Not many things have changed. Um, but then, you know, by 7 o'clock you're really hungry, but it's most people's normal breakfast time, except you kind of would then eat more and more meals and then have 5 gazillion coffees as well. It was— we were, we were all very unhealthy at that time. I, I know another guest of yours, Christian Hull, who's a very dear friend of mine, he was the digital producer at the time. That's how we became best buds. And, um, he struggled a lot as well.

Tommy: Yeah. And so what would you actually— what would be the second meal then when you had yours, then you would get into the office? What would you—

Sarah: we'd be going— there was a salad place that's also closed down, but we'd all go to the salad place at like 10 AM where everyone else was getting like their breakfast smoothies and stuff like that, and we were ready for lunch.

Josh: Yeah, it's a weird experience, isn't it?

Sarah: It's weird.

Josh: So For people that have never had any interaction or any experience in a radio station, I think there is a— it's a bubble, right? And so you're talking about entering into the bubble, but then I think there's some exclusion for all the people outside of it that you don't experience until you leave the bubble, right?

Sarah: Yeah.

Josh: What do you think?

Sarah: I'm still in the bubble.

Josh: Yeah, I know. And that's why I want to get some insight, because I'm not. What do you think it is about the inside of the bubble that people on the outside don't know? Like, what's the charm? What's the glamour of a radio station? Because I think it is very much radio is the thing. There's a real bubble in Australia for radio.

Sarah: Yeah, I agree. I think it's just the pizzazz, which, you know, you do get over after you've been there for a while. And now being in podcasting, we're actually in a set, like we're still in the same building, but we've got separate offices.

Tommy: Is there any pzazz in podcasting?

Sarah: Um, there's definitely not as much pizzazz. No, podcasting is the best. Um, but I think with radio, you know, you've got— for people who care about this kind of stuff, there are a lot of celebrities constantly walking through the building. There's, you know, you're getting the biggest, um, singers coming through and people who were huge in film. And so there are all these people passing through 24/7. You know, it's this, it's this big hoo-ha and you're just like in the cold face of it. So when you're in it, you think, wow, this is like the best thing in the world. And then they throw all these parties that you get free tickets to and, you know, all that kind of jazz.

Josh: I think it also, um, it just reminded me of Second Floor. I said, I remember—

Tommy: wait, Second Floor was Triple M?

Josh: Yes.

Sarah: Okay. And so I remember actually the First Floor.

Josh: Is it First?

Sarah: Yeah, yeah.

Josh: The First Floor.

Tommy: There's like two floors, isn't there?

Sarah: Yeah.

Tommy: You keep talking about the third floor.

Josh: That's because I like it.

Tommy: That's what I told you.

Sarah: Different floor we've never been to.

Josh: I just like to say that we've got a 3-story office. We don't. First floor, which is ground floor.

Tommy: That's not true.

Josh: Second floor, which is studio. Third floor, which is offices.

Tommy: Because it's embarrassing. He would tell people when we got our office, he was like, yeah, it's a 3-story office.

Josh: I'll still keep saying it.

Tommy: But it's embarrassing when people come in.

Josh: We have 3 levels. Can I say this? We've got 3 levels. Can I say that?

Sarah: Yeah, you do. Because a garage is like, if you were selling your place, you'd be like, there's a garage on one level.

Josh: Yeah, great.

Sarah: So that's true.

Josh: Okay. So 3 level, not 3 storey.

Tommy: I think you're better off underselling and then overdelivering. Like, wow, you guys said it was 1 storey.

Josh: So Triple M was located up from the ground floor, which according to them is first floor. Yes, it was.

Sarah: No, first floor is Triple M. Second floor. Did you?

Josh: But there was no—

Tommy: but the ground floor was Coles. We can agree inside baseball.

Josh: But still, it's a ground floor. It's— so then my point was up from the ground floor is level 1, which is—

Tommy: and then there's 2, but there is no 3.

Josh: You can have it. It was level 1. So level 1, I'm walking through and I'm listening to the radio. And as I'm walking through—

Sarah: probably Foo Fighters—

Josh: something was going on. I looked to the right and you can see into the studio and then you hear the people in the studio starting to speak and it's coming through the radio. So then you're getting this live sense. So everything's geared around— I remember even the people tapping their computers in sales areas, like it's— you're looking in. So I see the energy that that live show on Level 1 brought.

Tommy: So podcasting, not live, less energy, do you think?

Sarah: Well, no, I actually don't. So I love podcasting because it isn't live, because you can have a really decent amount of time to think. Well, to basically, if you do something and you— I know you guys don't, but you can edit it out if necessary. It can become very polished, which can be really nice. And also there's no pressure. So, you know, producing Hamish and Andy, that's the most fun and energetic podcast that you could probably work on, and that's not live. And it gives us time to kind of— we stop for lunch, we relax, we do like one, one show, and then we'll do the next, and we have a laugh in between segments. And it just— you don't have that pressure, and I love that.

Tommy: Is there something in the pressure though of the like 6 AM we're all on, we know that we've got the traffic, we know that people are in cars right now listening and the phones are ringing.

Sarah: I don't know. I don't reckon like as a podcaster, I think a podcaster and, you know, a host and a producer, I think you can get the same thing out of a podcast.

Tommy: So is there a way of faking it then within like the internal sort of dynamics of the team to say we're going to start at this time or we play the intro music or we do something to sort of bring that posture?

Sarah: Yes, I definitely think like with Hamish and Andy, where you play the intro music every single time, you know, so you've got that feel. But at the same time, it's not like you have to stop for a song and it's— it just flows really, really nicely and have the traffic coming through, have to do a live read, you know, all that kind of jazz.

Josh: Yeah, I think because if you're trying to like work out, reverse engineer what is the live thing, what is it, the 6 AM thing that you have listeners there, I think that you have to show up because it goes live and if you're not speaking, you've stuffed it because you can, you can also do with a podcast where you go every day like we have.

Sarah: Yeah.

Josh: Where you can't miss a day. So there's a pressure on us and the pressure of doing live radio is it's a pressure.

Tommy: Yeah. Because you can't do different pressures. Yeah.

Josh: And so we're just looking at how do you, how do you enforce a pressure that you actually do it? So you actually do it because that is the greatest thing about radio is that it's, you get to do something 5 days a week.

Tommy: Were you much of a listener of podcasts before you started yours?

Sarah: I did. Oh, before I started, before I moved to PodcastOne, I listened to a few podcasts because that was still— I mean, podcasting has just absolutely grown in the last few years. So I listened to a few. But yes, I was a big listener of podcasts before. But I like, you know, Oprah's Super Soul. That would be my favourite podcast.

Josh: My wife was listening to it. I got into it.

Sarah: Yeah, it's beautiful.

Josh: The other day on the way to work.

Sarah: That's, that's my sort of podcast, you know.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: What I like is she does it from all these different, you know, we're in our place in Miami. It's like, mate, she's got places everywhere.

Sarah: Yeah, she does. She's usually in Maui. Maui? Yeah, Maui. She has a beautiful, I think, ranch in Maui, and she interviews people under an oak tree.

Josh: Josh is thinking of doing it.

Tommy: I actually saw, I watched, I was thinking, I watched the video she had. She had Malcolm Gladwell on.

Josh: Oh, great.

Tommy: And it was awesome. And they were just like chilling out and it was It was a very nice one.

Josh: That's what we need to aspire for.

Tommy: The ex outside?

Josh: Oh, maybe with outside.

Sarah: Outside would be nice.

Tommy: Yeah, outside would be nice.

Josh: It's a great life.

Tommy: Yeah, I guess.

Sarah: I remember once she had it, the dogs were barking. She's like, okay, I don't think there's much edit.

Josh: They're shot.

Sarah: She's so nice, she would never do that.

Josh: Not recorded at least.

Sarah: Um, and yeah, all the dogs were barking and next door neighbour's dogs were barking, so I don't think there's much editing going on in their podcast either, which is a beautiful thing.

Josh: I like it. It's real natural.

Tommy: How do you do your asks? How do you— what's a good ask when it comes to trying to get a guest on your show?

Sarah: So many people ask me that. They're like, how do you get all these awesome people? Uh, well, how do I? It's basically a really good email. Is that what you do too?

Tommy: Yeah, yeah, we, yeah, we do a mix. It depends, obviously depends on the guest. But is it— have you actually templated anything, or do you have like Okay, I've written this out now. I don't have to reinvent the wheel. I can copy.

Sarah: Yeah, I basically do that. I do the copy and paste, but a lot of the time it is sometimes through connections I have that I get some people on. And otherwise, you know, I know them, so that's why they've come on. But yeah, I think it would be a copy and paste. And as you would know, I don't know if it works actually so much for this podcast, but the more people you have on that are in a similar field to the person you're asking on, the more they go, oh hey, they were on, I should come on too.

Tommy: Definitely.

Sarah: They don't say that, but I think I, I'm thinking they think that it helps.

Tommy: Yeah, absolutely.

Josh: Um, what makes a good producer, do you think?

Sarah: I think a good producer has to be organized, and I'm a very organised person, so that works well. Yeah.

Josh: What does that mean?

Tommy: I heard someone say that the other day. What is an—

Josh: oh, they do their washing, you don't, so you're not organized?

Tommy: No, I have I wear merino t-shirts. You can go 20, like 30 days with merino and they're all good.

Sarah: Really? Yeah. No sweating?

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: No, no, no.

Tommy: He still sweats. No, well, I mean, they're less smelly. They're not smelly at all. Have you ever thought Josh has B.O.?

Josh: Once.

Tommy: Where was it?

Josh: Uh, recently actually. I just was like—

Tommy: You sure it wasn't my socks? Because I don't think they were—

Josh: Maybe, maybe, maybe. I can't remember. I just, I just, it was just—

Sarah: Why didn't you say anything?

Josh: They just let him sit in it. But I do, I always think, but I always tell you.

Tommy: Yeah, I don't need to know anyway. No, I think it's good to know.

Sarah: I mean, I'd hope someone would tell me.

Tommy: I don't really sweat much, but anyway, you do your washing, so that's one key of being organized.

Sarah: What else? He said that, I didn't say that.

Tommy: Okay, meal prep.

Sarah: I think, well, you know, take— I also am producer of the true crime podcast that we do at work too. So I think being organized, definitely, um, and also just having a good knowledge of whatever you're working with, coming up with good ideas, um, being a people's person as well.

Tommy: So what are the— like, for the organised bit, the tactics? Like, are you in your calendar on all the time? Are you writing to-do lists? Like, what does it actually mean?

Sarah: I kind of— I have a Post-it note, and I kind of might write a loose to-do list, but like say example for Hamish and Andy, there's like 5 gazillion things to always organise for them, which is so much fun. So I just have to ensure that it's all done before our next recording, making sure I've like looked through their inboxes and worked on whatever kind of big stunt they're doing, spoken to them about, you know, whatever that— whatever we're kind of working on. It's, it's making sure that you're always in communication, but you're also able to handle things on your own. And you have a good insight into what the listeners would want to hear, and you're coming up with content as well.

Tommy: Do you have rules that you set yourself? So I've, I've got to clear my inbox by this time, or I need to make sure that every single thing I need to do today is here on that Post-it note.

Sarah: I'll make sure that I hit— if I know that there's definitely things that I need to do and finish that day, I'll ensure that. I don't think there'd be a day that I didn't do it. So I will make— I'll give them priority as well.

Tommy: How do you do that?

Sarah: Well, usually Hungry Shenanigans are my priority. Yeah. So anything that needs to be done for them gets done. Um, and then the true crime stuff. So that's also fascinating, but that producing is a little bit different because sometimes, like, I work with a guy, our crime reporter, and we were looking at a case that we didn't we may end up rolling out one day, but basically like we went to the site where one of the girls got abused and went basically around the house and looked at the entry point, which the person who is still— has never been caught would have jumped over and all this kind of stuff. And it's intriguing.

Josh: Was anyone at the house?

Sarah: I think, I think the parents were at the house.

Josh: Oh God. So he's just walking around.

Sarah: And then we went up and down the street it was like we do very different things to what a normal kind of producer would do. But I love that. Like, it's so different. And for our crime reporting as well, like, it's kind of like working in film. Like, we sit there and we all play characters in a script and it's like me, I'm the producer, and then the head of podcast one, and our audio producer, crime reporter. And we sit and we read the scripts and then we literally go through what needs to be changed and what doesn't. And then we'll go through it again and again and we storyboard. It's, it's like a, it's a piece of artwork. It's amazing.

Josh: What do you think for the just on the crime stuff? Because I know how big crime podcasts are. What, what's the goal of the podcast? So in the creation of it, the producing of it, what is the goal?

Sarah: So for example, we did this podcast In Plain Sight about Jonathan Dick, who was a guy that was, has just been caught And literally the podcast went out. This guy was on the run. He'd like killed his brother with a samurai sword.

Tommy: Oh, he was being—

Sarah: they found him. Yeah, they found him. Yeah.

Josh: Just around the corner.

Sarah: Just around the corner.

Josh: Fitzroy, sorry. Yeah.

Sarah: And he was like in a— he had been camping out in a tent, but they found him, found him somewhere else anyway. So we put that podcast out about this guy who was like on the run. We called it In Plain Sight because it's like How can a guy be homeless for like 2 years or however long and no one has found him? Like, he has no money, no assistance. Like, it was bizarre. It was a fascinating story. And anyway, about a week after the podcast launch, they found him. So we think maybe a lot had to do with the podcast because we know that he had gone and been reading newspapers and stuff and maybe had— they found a radio near him. So he'd been listening to interviews that our crime reporter had done potentially. So could have been agitated. But a lot of that stuff, we hope that they are able to find the person that's out there that's committed the crime because we do mostly, not always, but mostly unsolved cases.

Josh: Isn't it crazy? It's like the— this world of podcasters has created these almost police officers. They're like investigating these unsolved mysteries.

Sarah: They had to take the podcast down because it's like, yeah, because it goes to the court now.

Josh: Is it going to go back up?

Sarah: Once the matter's finished, then yeah.

Tommy: Have you learned a lot about the ethics of this sort of stuff?

Sarah: Yes, I have. Like, I still, I'm not 100% of the ins and outs, but I have. And also, you know, do you— we have to get people to sign waivers every time they come on the podcast.

Tommy: Yeah, we're, we're sorting out release forms.

Sarah: Yeah.

Josh: Yeah.

Sarah: So that also can be quite full on. Like, I've had people that just won't sign the release form, so I can't interview them. I mean, there's nothing scary about the release form.

Josh: No, there isn't. But it's the difference in the conversation. What are you talking about? Like, what we're talking about now is like, yeah, it's a very low level in comparison to reflecting on a crime you saw or something that's happened in your life.

Sarah: Completely, completely.

Tommy: I guess the thing with like talking about the release form stuff, uh, it's definitely something as we start going outside of our circle and stuff, it becomes more and more important But then there's also the, like, there's the legal and then there's the ethical. So, uh, like Mr. 97 and I were talking about it where it's like someone asked if we could edit something of the podcast and we did it and it prompted the release form. It's like, to be honest, if the— even if we had a release form, uh, we would still do make that edit because it's like, are we— we're in the relationship game, this sort of style of show that we're doing. If you came on our show signed a release form and then you said, hey, there's this bit in the podcast that's really like ruining my life or whatever at the moment. Can you cut it out? I mean, it takes a certain type of—

Josh: Ruining life is keyword.

Tommy: Yeah. Or it's like if it's a massive issue, then it's like, okay, well, you can— you would take that out, you would think.

Josh: But what about if it's low level when they still want you to take it out? So I guess it's like, well, if you say yes to one thing, What's the rule?

Tommy: I just think, I think the thing is, it's like, I think what we're doing, it's like, hey, you learn your— if we think that it doesn't make any sense and they want it removed, it's like, lesson, take it, we'll take it down. Lesson learned.

Josh: But then just flip it on its head and go, if you didn't think it was, do you? So the question is, do you push back?

Tommy: You say, hey, this is actually like a massive issue for us if we take it down. We've done you know, 400-odd episodes. So this is a, a massive edge case and something that we've never done before. It's going to put us out. And if they do it, then I think, yeah, I mean, what's the—

Josh: but you're putting ethics back onto them. It's like, so you're saying empathy, right? That you're showing empathy to this person that they didn't want it. And I'm not talking about the ruined life.

Tommy: I guess it depends on the type of content you're doing. Like, say the crime stuff, you're going to actually have people who who like, it's a lot more touchy and you are entering into that game. So you've got to be willing to like, you need to get release forms. You're probably going to do that more interviews and shit like that. I think the licencing stuff is more in regards to like ownership of content. We want to know that we own it so that we can use it.

Sarah: And yes, exactly.

Tommy: Whatever way you want.

Josh: Have you ever faced these outside of the crime stuff? Because I could imagine it probably happens more so. Yeah. You know, I was feeling confident in one moment, not the next.

Sarah: Well, that's it.

Josh: What about for the other shows you've been a part of?

Sarah: Uh, for A Life of Greatness, there's been one case. No one's ever asked me to edit anything out. It's always been fine. There's never been any problems with the recordings, but I make sure they sign the release before they come on the podcast. And there was one guest who is quite famous, an American person, and they wouldn't sign it, like, because of X, Y, and Z. And I sent it to our lawyers and they could only make a few changes. And it was, you know what, you kind of think, I mean, this is my way of thinking, it's, if it's not supposed to be, then there's obviously a bigger reason for that. And I would never push it, and that's fine.

Tommy: So you had them on the show?

Sarah: No, they never came on.

Josh: Ah, because they wouldn't sign?

Sarah: Because I need them to sign the release, and if they don't sign the release, then I can't have them on.

Tommy: Yeah, that's interesting because all of these things I guess are just risk assessments.

Sarah: Well, that's it. Yeah.

Tommy: Um, and when you're loosey-goosey over here, we can do what we want.

Josh: Yeah, but it's— yeah, it throws a spanner in the works either way. But I, I always think about anything you do, there's a bunch of stuff you're signing up for. So if you open a business where you sell candles online where you have to ship them, you're actually entering into the possibility of it going pear-shaped and I suppose losing your candle and having to face that. A part of the podcast landscape is someone says, take this down. If you're doing a shitload of episodes, do you reckon it's a big deal?

Sarah: Anyway, like, you know, maybe if it was, you did one episode and that was the only episode and it had to go down, that would be sad. But if you got a few others and whatever, but no, it's never happened to me as far as anyone pulling anything after an interview.

Tommy: No, not at all.

Josh: To be honest, I'd just be pissed that I didn't get that day off. Yeah, you know, like we did it and then we had to put in the work and now we're—

Sarah: Exactly.

Josh: Would have gone to the beach.

Tommy: What's, what's some new empathy that you've gotten from doing, like being behind the mic that you didn't get when you were a producer?

Sarah: Oh, so much. So I think like I kind of touched on before, it's just listening to people's storeys and seeing how beautiful, how beautiful their storeys are and what I've learned from them. There is not one guest that I haven't learned anything from. And it's funny, I did interview someone the other day, and it's just these key moments that they'll say something and I'm like, it just resonates. And it— and then I'll think about my own personal life and how I can kind of use what they've spoken about to my benefit and to a situation that perhaps that I'm in. It— there is just another level when you're behind the mic and You know, the storeys that are sometimes shared with me, like I mentioned, are deep and really powerful. And a lot of the time these people haven't spoken about that stuff before, so I find that to be unbelievably beautiful. And there's not— there's no part of me that isn't grateful for that.

Tommy: Do you look long-term when it comes to the podcast?

Sarah: Um, yeah, I, I do. I obviously want to keep producing and I'm doing that as well. But I love being behind the mic and having a Life of Greatness and it is doing really, really, really well. So Series 3, I've nearly, nearly kind of wrapped that up, still doing a few interviews and then I'll put that out. It would just be kind of expanding more and more from where I am. So I kind of— I'm not looking too long term. I'm just still getting the interviews and then seeing what kind of comes from there.

Tommy: What about personal brand? Do you think about that much? Like, how long until we have a— we see a headshot on your social media?

Sarah: Well, there's already been one, and I am in, in the process of developing a website. I have someone that's doing that now. It's just because I've started to get asked to do like a lot of gigs as far as like, you know, either talking about myself or being the moderator and you know, when you're getting paid gigs, then you start to think, okay, maybe I could get some more of these. So, but that's just a natural progression from doing what I am doing now. So it's been such a beautiful thing. And I think one of the nicest things as well, and I'm sure you guys get this, I mean, your subject matter is slightly different, but for A Life of Greatness, the amount of people that contact me and tell me, like, I, you know, this one girl contacted me, she's just beautiful, saying that, you know, I just want you to know that my My good friend is in her last days and she's been getting so much comfort from listening to the episodes in your podcast. And we just want to thank you so, so much. I mean, it's, you know, people who telling me they re-listen and re-listen to take notes so that they can use these strategies in their everyday life. Like so many beautiful messages from people. And that is— that keeps me wanting to do more and more and as well.

Tommy: Being a podcast one, you'd have a lot of people coming to you and saying, got a podcast idea, I want to do a podcast.

Sarah: Oh my God, every second person. Yeah, like no joke. Yeah. And it got to the stage where we were all laughing, like all of the other producers were all saying, I can't take it anymore. And we all now say, just go to the website, there's a form, fill out the form. Because at first I'd be like, yeah, sure, email me. Like, I'm so happy to do that. And I still am, but it's just gotten too much. And As you would know, like everyone's got an idea about something for a podcast. So we get— I think they get hundreds and hundreds of people writing and they select a bare minimum amount.

Tommy: And what's, what's the misconception or what's the bit that you think most people are missing when they're speaking about starting a podcast?

Sarah: I think they have an idea, which is amazing, but maybe they haven't thought it out properly. So there's no real plan. Like they may have thought about their first episode, but often they're, they're not quite sure, or they just want to interview people but they have no real subject matter that they want to interview them on. I think, look, there are a lot of podcasts that do such similar things, but I think you also have to have a point of difference to an extent. So maybe they haven't thought about that, or they have absolutely no experience in any of these areas, which is fine. I mean, start a podcast, but maybe, you know, try and get some interviewing experience, or try and do something in that area first before you kind of dive in.

Tommy: What's your view on monetization?

Sarah: I think monetization is a fabulous thing.

Josh: Money's great.

Tommy: Yeah. Where do you, where do you think it is like having your experiences within sort of PodcastOne and seeing the landscape? What do you think? It's—

Sarah: I think it's getting better. Obviously we have a sales team that sells for us. So seeing what it was like 2 years ago when I started, where I saw that it was hard for the salespeople you know, they were going to clients and clients kind of didn't understand what podcasting was, to now they're going to clients and they're selling so well. And, you know, prices for ads have gone up because there's now this big demand. And as, as well, you're getting targeted audiences. So basically, I know when they sell, you know, they can go into selling for a cooking podcast and you know that you're getting a certain amount of people who are male, female, but they love cooking rather than if you were doing a radio show. It's like people from all over the shop, like it's really targeted. Like I know the people— well, there's a lot of different people that listen to A Life of Greatness because I don't just kind of focus on one thing, but it's that, you know, good feeling, wellness, mental health perspective as well. So, you know, the kind of brands that would be right for that. So I think, I think companies are really starting to come on come on board with podcasting and sales now. So I think things will really pick up.

Tommy: Do you think like in regards to where podcasting is right now, do you see anything on the horizon in regards to the next trends? Obviously crime is a real popular one. I was following the #OzPod hashtag and everyone was talking about crime. It feels like there's got to be a tipping point where we've gotten too much in certain categories.

Sarah: Yes.

Tommy: Are you thinking about that?

Sarah: I look at the categories that I think do well, and it is the crime, the comedy, the wellness. Those are that. And cooking is also big. Like, that's also kind of been a genre that I think is kind of quite successful. Yeah. And I mean, look, it's, it's also dependent on what you like. Like PodcastOne's tagline is there's one for everybody. And that's so true, you know, like Or everyone's got one.

Tommy: Could be also another tagline.

Sarah: Yeah, that's true. Yeah. So I love listening to interview style podcasts, so that's what I listen to. But I have friends that love comedy podcasts and they listen to them. So, you know, it's really dependent on the person as well. People are obsessed with crime. They listen to crime. I used to be. I still love crime, but I think working in it now, I try and detach myself from actually listening to it because it gets into my psyche too much.

Josh: What do you think? What do you mean? What do you think?

Sarah: Well, I'll never forget when I first started doing the crime podcasting and I got given this file and the file just had all these— it was a rundown of all these bits and pieces that had happened in the case and it was horrific. And I, I got scared. I was like, I remember going for a girls weekend because, you know, these people haven't been found. And I was like in my room in the country thinking, what's that noise? And I was never like that before, but I was like, oh good Lord. Like, you know, when I would come home and I'd, you know, like with the keys in the door, make sure I took all the keys out of the door in case something happened. You know, you get a bit paranoid. And I thought, no, this is— I love working in that area, but then if I'm consuming it outside too, it's too much.

Josh: Yeah. I mean, there's the thought that, you know, the media and the sort of mass spread of information increases our worry and paranoia around these things. So it's like, is it— is crime on the increase? You know, all these things that are happening, is that on the increase or are we just hearing more of what is going on?

Sarah: I don't know. Potentially we're just hearing more of what's going on.

Josh: Well, in depth. Podcast. What the interesting bit, you know, the note from that that girl who was on her last days, her friend. What were these people doing before podcasts? You know, because I think there's a lot of people are contacting podcasts. We get a heap of people contacting us. There was not an outlet to do that, or where was the outlet? Was it radio? Was it pen, like, PO box, lock bag, um, up in bloody Sydney?

Tommy: Like, well, it's a deeper connection.

Josh: It's a deeper connection that you're building And she's inspiring people to contact, which is amazing. How cool is that?

Sarah: I think it's beautiful.

Josh: I—

Sarah: that's, as I said, that is the element that I take out and I think, wow, like if I'm making a difference in these people's lives, that to me is so special. Like even when I talk about my experience of getting into podcasting and, you know, working in these big corporates and then going into my dream job in radio and then podcasting, I did that the other day, this Women in Business talk, and I had these girls come up to me after and they're like, you know, I'm in that corporate job now and I hate it. And listening to your talk, it's so inspiring what you, what you're doing and what you got to do. And I feel like now that I'd be able to get there as well. Like, you can, you just need to know that, you know, you have a goal and allow yourself to basically be taken on the journey. It's a beautiful thing. So I think doing the podcast and having these people come back and give these kind of messages to you, I mean, it's, it's lovely.

Tommy: Are you thinking about video at all?

Sarah: Well, we do. I video the podcast. Well, I don't personally, but the social media guys do. We use our studios that we have kind of set up already, so that's pretty lucky. I think video is a really good thing for the third series even via Zoom. I think nearly every single— well, hopefully when I do the next few as well, every interview will be filmed.

Tommy: I think that's changed the dynamic of how you do the conversation. Do you become sort of more self-aware? I feel like I'm not sitting up straight right now.

Josh: I—

Sarah: yes, definitely. And, and through Zoom as well, you can see yourself in the corner if you do the split screen. Well, if you do the split screen, you're not in the corner, you're, you're looking at yourself. So I noticed that like suddenly I'll veer to look at— I hope I look okay. Yep, I look all right. And it was hilarious. The other day I did this interview and the guy was overseas and I came in. It was 8:00 at night and there was no one around and we were doing the interview via Zoom and suddenly the air conditioning went off because like, why would they need it on? There's no one in the building. And progressively I get more and more flushed in my face. As the interview goes on. And it wasn't until the next day where they're like, oh no, I got caught. It was so hot in there. They're like, well, the aircon goes off. And funnily enough, in the middle of the interview, this absolutely threw me. The door just opens to the studio and I'm like, oh my God. I turn around and it's the cleaner. And I'm like, I'm sorry, I'm in the middle of an interview. Thank God we edit. And he's like, oh, okay, just one moment. And then he starts like emptying the bin and like cleaning. And I'm like, Hey, I'm in the middle of an interview with this huge guy from overseas. Not that it matters. I'm really sorry. It's just our cleaner.

Tommy: Do you find that the conversation has changed even internally when you started working with PodcastOne versus today in regards to how serious businesses are thinking about podcasting?

Sarah: Oh, definitely. I think SCA, Southern Cross Austereo, as a business takes podcasting very seriously. Not that they ever didn't, but they realise that this is an area that's absolutely growing and growing. So I also think people around the business are listening to the podcast that PodcastOne produce, and it's taken very, very seriously. It's really lovely. It's a, it's a great, as you guys know, it's a great place to be, being a podcaster.

Josh: Yeah. Well, you're saying you're, you're talking about the conversations and where you get to in the depth. It's like you are in a vortex, so you get to experience that. With somebody, right?

Sarah: Yeah. It's, you know, I did this interview with Kate Lambrouck and it just blew me away. It was one of the most beautiful interviews that I've ever done. And it was just her and I in a room and the cameraman had set everything up and then walked away. He didn't obviously need to be there. So it was just the two of us and it was like we'd gone out. Well, I would even say it was like I felt like I'd just gone to her house and she was just opening up about her whole life to me. You know, through growing up in a Jehovah's Witness family to her son's battle with leukemia. You know, there were tears, and I just— I walked out and it was like, that was such a beautiful interview. And I was so taken aback with how much information and how beautiful she was in sharing that with the audience. And since then, people were— I laughed, I cried during that interview. Kate is such a special person, and I've felt so grateful to have spoken to her and have her share her story.

Tommy: How many podcasts are you producing, as in like actual different shows?

Sarah: So I do Hamish and Andy, I do the true crime, which can be— we do an at-large series as well as our understate series. So the understate is the more, you know, the, the actual big crime, unsolved murders, to the at-large series is more interview-based. We just did one about Kerry Packer and his stolen gold. And I'm— I also produce one called The Alternative Truth, which is a medical podcast with a doctor. And basically we get two sides to a story. They're not in the room at the same time and they talk about a subject matter. So for example, we had cancer as a subject and we got an oncologist and then we got a guy who has cancer, but he does alternative therapies as one. And we do the same for, um, what did we do, one on skincare, and we got a guy, a woman that does organic skincare, and a guy who was a dermatologist. So that's really fascinating. So I go from comedy to crime to, you know, me talking about how you can achieve greatness to medical. You couldn't get a better range.

Josh: That's great.

Tommy: Do you think that you'll do another podcast, or, um, is your current one like the one that you want to keep on building?

Sarah: The current one is the one that I want to keep on building. I've actually never thought about that, like as in to do another one that I host potentially. I'd never say no to anything, but I love building the brand of A Life of Greatness for the moment. I think that's kind of what I'm focusing on as well as my own personal brand. That's, that's what I've got in, in the next couple of months.

Tommy: I love like the motion graphics and stuff that were like the—

Sarah: how amazing are they?

Tommy: Was that a big part? Like, does— is that the Podcast One Touch where they've come to you and said, we've got this resource will do it, or is that something you say, I want to do this?

Sarah: Well, we've got this animator who works out of Sydney, and she's just absolutely brilliant. And her and I had a discussion, and basically we were like, okay, for, you know, the animation for when we launch should be look kind of similar to this. It was mostly her, like, I gave her ideas and then she created the whole thing. She's unbelievable. And then we did them for a lot of the guests and stuff. But now that we've got video, we've kind of introduced more video for the third series. It'll probably be— that will kind of be the main thing, I would say.

Tommy: Is it? Yeah. What's the feeling when you're doing all of this work but not pushing it out? I guess with something like H&A, you're doing an episode. Is it? Yeah. What is that feeling? Because I guess you're doing all this work.

Sarah: Yeah.

Tommy: People are saying, hey, when's the next one?

Sarah: I know. And then there's part of me that's like, still battling in my head what I want to do. So I've obviously got a bunch of podcasts and I still need to do a few more before I release them, which will be in the next few months. And there's a part of me also, it's like maybe I should just release one or two, you know, to give the audience something. So I'll do another series and then I don't know where I'll go from there. Like, I'll definitely— I'll 100% do more, but will it be a full series or will I release more? I still need to kind of work on my strategy. What I mean, you guys obviously do one a day.

Josh: So we don't, I mean, I'm always fascinated by people who have series within their podcast. So you're seeing the seasons.

Sarah: Yeah. Series season.

Josh: And I'm trying to work out what, why I haven't worked it out completely.

Tommy: I guess it's like a official break. Like you're able to sort of set that up and have one.

Josh: Then so the point is if it's a big hit, is it, if you see a seasoned podcast, does it mean that they've all been released at one go or they trickled out?

Sarah: Well, so, well, the way that I've done it for A Life of Greatness is there's been season 1, season 2, and then also like people then can just binge. So instead of maybe listening to one and then going, oh, it's not one for ages, and then they forget about you, they can just go and listen to 9, and then they can go and listen to the next season and the next season. Like, there's a lot of content that you're just putting out there.

Tommy: You're gonna say they listen to the 9 and then they forget about you?

Josh: No, I was gonna say, I was gonna say, potentially as well, we've got a season of 472.

Sarah: So yeah, you guys have a lot backed up there.

Josh: Yeah. How many seasons would we have?

Tommy: I don't know. Are you probably— what, you do 12?

Josh: We're like Lost.

Tommy: Yeah, I don't know.

Josh: We don't know the point of it by the end.

Tommy: It's interesting. Like, do you have— is there a strategy team? Are you sitting down with people externalising this sort of thing?

Sarah: Oh, not really. For A Life of Greatness, the strategy team would be me, um, and, you know, the head of Podcast One, who's been amazing in being able to bounce things off and, you know, having him there and being able to discuss different topics and stuff. But basically, I think with this, they let me just kind of ride it.

Tommy: Yeah.

Sarah: Um, I find all the guests myself, and it's kind of produced and done by me. And if there's anything that I need to speak to him about, and I do run the series thing past him, but we thought a third series is a good, good strategy. And then kind of be whatever I want to do from there. But no, there isn't these big strategy meetings about how we're going to release it.

Tommy: And what, what does success look like for you, do you think?

Sarah: Success to me is— I mean, look, downloads is a good key of success. That is obviously the biggest thing in podcasting. And just knowing that I've built up a beautiful audience base that are getting a lot of good messages and being able to use them in their everyday life. Success really for me is being able to— and I really do mean this— being able to change people's lives. Like, I've seen how this work has changed my life. And if I'm able— the reason behind the podcast was to be able to let other people change their lives too. If they're able to do that, then, you know, tick, job's done.

Josh: It's— I mean, it sounds like you enjoy the process too.

Sarah: Love the process. I mean, you know, there's that beautiful saying, you know, enjoy. It's not all about the outcome. It's, you know, all about the destination. It's, it's how you, how you get there. It's the journey. And I always think of that like I love when I interview people. Do you love it? Yeah.

Tommy: Yeah. So much. Yeah.

Sarah: I love when I interview people. I get excited and that is a huge part of it. And it's not just about the day that we launch, it's everything in between. Like I find the social media really fun as well. I quite enjoy doing that bit. Everything around it, sitting with the audio producers and when we were doing the music and when I read out the intros and I write all the intros myself, that sound like the voice of God when you're doing it.

Tommy: I think it's like very—

Sarah: do I?

Tommy: Yeah, it's got like a real authoritative sort of sound to it.

Sarah: I think I actually was sitting with my audio producer not long ago and I looked at him and I go, you know, this is sitting here when I have to read the intros after I've written them. And it takes me a while to write them sometimes because I want to make sure they're perfect. And I very respectful of the people that I have on to interview. And when I write about them, I want to ensure that I've mentioned all the best bits of whatever they're doing and teaching. And then when I read it, I don't know, there's something in me where I, I just absolutely love that. And I love seeing how he brings it to life from an audio perspective. It's beautiful.

Tommy: So the next season, when are we, when are we thinking? What, what, what date? Do we have a date?

Sarah: I don't know.

Tommy: Can we put a date on it now? It sounds like you don't have a strategy, Tamsen. We can do it for you.

Josh: We're a strategy team.

Sarah: It's going to be January, sometime January, Feb, because that's when people are on holidays and they listen a lot.

Tommy: What about January 10th?

Josh: Far away from Australia Day. You don't want to get it muddied with that.

Sarah: Yeah, that's true.

Josh: Yeah. So maybe before.

Tommy: Yeah, get it in.

Sarah: Yeah, Jan 10th.

Tommy: Well, potentially.

Sarah: Yes. I don't want to have it too close to New Year's and Christmas and all that.

Josh: Yeah. But you want people back in the workplace where they're not doing much and they might be wanting to listen to your podcast. I mean, what's the—

Tommy: What's the argument for not putting them out sooner?

Sarah: Well, I want to because I have to bank them.

Josh: Is it that you won't do them? Like, do you think if you started releasing them, you're like, ah, I mean, because you also—

Sarah: I'll tell you one thing as well, like, not obviously the Daily Talk Show is not like this, but I find sometimes maybe people like, they then interview anyone because they're just like, oh, I've got to release one in like a fortnight. Oh God, I can't find anyone to interview. And I am so you know, I think so much about who I'm going to interview and I'm really picky with who I interview. I don't just interview anyone. So that is a big thing for me too. I think if I had to do one once a fortnight, I mean, there's only that many people in Australia too that might fit the kind of cred of who I want to interview.

Josh: So I've had them all on the show.

Sarah: Yeah, it's interesting because it's something I, I'm very specific about. So that And I think that's what takes a bit of time as well.

Tommy: Yeah. Because it's interesting, 'cause I think Tommy and I were talking the other day about some of the guests that we haven't necessarily like had that much enthusiasm with or whatever have been the best guests. And so like, well, I feel like through scale and by doing heaps, you suddenly realise that the people who you think are gonna be amazing might be really good, but then yeah, the people who are, like, I don't know necessarily what their storey is, that then becomes a platform because we're actually discovering it for the first time rather than the people that we love and that we really want to have on. We have actually heard every single storey from 6 different shows.

Sarah: Yes, I'm, I am also very aware of that. I sometimes like to get people that, you know, they don't have to be big names, but, and, and maybe they've never told their storey before. I find that to be something that I think is pretty significant. And yeah, but I'm very— I think a lot about who I'm going to interview before, and I make sure that I pick the right mix of people as well.

Tommy: You can definitely tell. I think that in a world where there's— everyone wants to create a podcast, not everyone's doing it. I think like it's amazing. Like when it came out and I saw it, it's so good seeing people who have worked hard behind the scenes for so long helping other people shine. Go out and do it. I think it's really cool.

Sarah: Oh, thank you.

Josh: But if Mr. 97, you try that shit on us.

Tommy: Absolutely not. If he starts some sort of life of really greatness. Absolutely not.

Josh: And I have to bring up what number did I say at the start of the show?

Sarah: 82.

Josh: Got it.

Sarah: Yes.

Tommy: I was actually going to say 82 as well.

Josh: Well, your bit wasn't about you, mate.

Tommy: Yeah, not today anyway. Apple Podcasts, you can leave us a review. What do you think of Apple Podcast reviews?

Sarah: I look, if they're nice, then yeehaw. If they're not, don't write on her.

Josh: So only leave Sarah nice.

Tommy: Yeah, please, 5-star reviews, please. Uh, it's a Daily Talk Show. hi@thedailytalkshow.com is the email address if you want to send us an email. Otherwise, we'll see you tomorrow.

Josh: See you guys.