Richard Wilkins On Fatherhood & Pioneering Television

Tommy: The Daily Talk Show.

Josh: It's The Daily Talk Show, episode 457. This is a bit of a different one. We're in Sydney with Richard Wilkins.

Richard: Why is this significantly different?

Tommy: Well, Richard, we don't usually do them from the bar, and you've been kind enough to invite us to your home and let us in. And, um, Josh—

Richard: only because I'm lazy enough to go anywhere else.

Tommy: Also, Josh doesn't usually drink red wine on the show.

Richard: Is this a first?

Josh: Well, yeah, this is, I've only ever had, we always get confused between mimosas and samosas, which is the drink. Mimosa is the drink. Samosa is the Indian food.

Richard: Yeah, correct.

Josh: Okay.

Richard: And they're both dreadful, but that's a peanut.

Josh: So I had us, we had a samosa once in LA on a show. So do we cheers?

Tommy: Is it, we are, can we cheers?

Josh: Yeah.

Richard: Okay.

Josh: Great.

Richard: Well, yours is water.

Josh: Cheers.

Richard: Cheers.

Josh: We're meant to like make eye contact as well when we do it. Okay.

Tommy: Richard, who else is aside from us? Which is probably your worst guess, but who's been someone that you've had here that, um, that you've really enjoyed?

Richard: You want me to drop names?

Tommy: Of course.

Richard: Well, let me just say the most recent thing I did here with cameras and microphones, although we actually had microphone stands, which is something you might want to look into.

Josh: We brought one stand, we bought a stand yesterday specifically for in case Richard wants to stand, and we panicked and didn't even ask if you wanted it.

Richard: Well, the last person to sit I think he sat there, was Sam Neill, and Bryan Brown stood there making cocktails as he has done in the past.

Tommy: Yeah.

Richard: Cocktail.

Tommy: Yeah, yeah.

Richard: Tom Cruise. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Talking about their new movie Palm Beach. So they were the last names. There we go. To drop a couple who were in the spa.

Tommy: Just firstly, what's your favourite cocktail? What is the go-to in the bar here?

Richard: Oh, I'm a bit of a I'm a bit of a G&T guy, really. There are a few gins there that you pick up around the world, you know, going through a duty-free here and there. I picked up a couple coming through Düsseldorf Airport earlier this year. And you put them up there and you think, oh, save that for a special occasion. Then of course, one night comes along and you empty the whole damn thing. But no, I do like my gins and I like trying them out. I discovered a few— well, I decided a few years ago that The tonic was the stuff that actually did the damage because there's more sugar in tonic water than there is in Coca-Cola.

Tommy: There's no good.

Josh: So if you do eat alcohol on a diet, what should you be having?

Richard: Just get rid of the additives, you know, just have sort of gin and gin and gin and tonic.

Josh: Is that, uh, can we mention your car rego plate?

Richard: That's not mine, it's my partner's.

Josh: Okay.

Richard: Whose name is Virginia and whose nickname is Gin.

Tommy: But also happens to be your favourite drink, which—

Richard: well, and she had the car and the number plate before she met me, so—

Josh: oh, so it's just serendipity.

Tommy: We met I met your son Christian on the way in. He has a podcast also. Richard, you've been in the, I guess, TV landscape for 30+ years now. What have you, what's your observation of these new mediums coming up? You know, podcasting wasn't around 30 years ago.

Richard: Well, firstly, I'm very proud of Christian 'cause he's nominated for an ACRA Award, Australian Commercial Radio Awards. And, you know, way down the list in best podcast, he's up against Hamish and Andy and all that sort of stuff. And it's something that, It was his idea and he did it himself and he went and pitched it and he's been renewed for a second season. And you know, it's a big deal. And now he was so excited the day he came bounding and said, "Dad, I've been nominated for an Acura Award." You know, I've won a couple of them, two of them, and I know how special that felt, you know? So for him to do that of his own accord, I'm so proud 'cause the nomination is everything. And after that it's a lottery really. But so I'm very proud. But yeah, you're right, podcasts. Didn't exist when I started. Hell, electricity had only just begun.

Tommy: But gin was invented.

Richard: Gin had been going for a long— gin got a head start.

Josh: Do you have a favourite in regards to mediums? Is TV versus radio— do you have a favourite?

Richard: Oh, well, you know, television— I sort of grew up in the early— at the risk of sounding incredibly old, but you know, when I was a kid, not every house had a television set. And I never really, I don't think, did the cliché thing of peeping through the neighbour's windows, but it wasn't far away from that. You know, they were in shop windows, obviously, black and white. And it was huge. It was new. It was exciting. And I loved the idea of television right from the start. But music was my thing. You know, I grew up playing in bands and played the violin. I was, you know, first violinist in the school orchestra and, you know, head chorister in the school choir and blah, blah, blah. So music was in my blood. And I got a music scholarship to go to a toffee boys boarding school in New Zealand. And, you know, it was when the Beatles kind of came along in the mid-'60s that my, you know, trained ears picked up, and I knew it wasn't just about the haircuts and the screaming girls. There was really something significant happening in the music land. So it was music that I loved and got into. And then after playing in bands and stuff, I started singing on television a couple of times in New Zealand. And when I brought my band over here, It was the big land of opportunity, and I saw— and I just told everyone I spoke to that I wanted to work in television. And I did a couple of little bits and pieces, but when that MTV opportunity came up, I just grabbed it with both hands. I auditioned along with, I think, every actor and model and DJ in Australia and was lucky enough to be in the right place at the right time. So television was, uh, the thing for me, yeah, I always wanted to work in television and, um, so it came to pass.

Josh: Do you have an interesting perspective on Australia spending so much time speaking to international people? I guess the MTV example, uh, they were doing it in the US, it was a proven concept. When they brought it here, was it sort of a different version?

Richard: Well, yeah, it was very much an experiment, um, because we were the first spin-off, if you like, outside the United States. MTV was going gangbusters. It revolutionised the music industry. Suddenly it wasn't just about the music you were making, it was about the way you looked and, you know, the video clip and all that. Bands like, you know, INXS and Crowded House were at the forefront of all that. And bang, there was a whole new ball game. But yeah, when we came, Mr. Packer, Kerry Packer, came back from a, as I understand it, a sort of a programme buying spree and bought a whole lot of stuff from Viacom and announced to the bosses at Channel 9, we've got this thing called MTV as well. Because back in the day, television used to finish at 10 or 11 at night, way before when you guys were— before you were twinkles in your dad's eyes.

Tommy: But the signal would cut, is that what it was? Yes.

Richard: Yeah, Channel 7 had a guy, you know, standing down on the rock somewhere singing Freddie Leonardi or someone was going that's not right, but had this great song, 'My city of Sydney.' And you know, when he sung that song, bang, it was back to the test pattern. Um, so Mr. Packer, being the revolutionary and pioneer that he was, he figured this would be nice cheap programming. Let's just throw MTV on at night, and it's got all these music videos and things from America. What could possibly go wrong? But of course, they then realised that given the release dates and clearances and rights and whatnot, that we would have to produce our own version here. I read about it in the paper and told my agent, who was at the time Russell Crowe's agent, you know, about it. She said, 'Oh, Russell wants to go for that too.' So I remember we both went up and auditioned.

Tommy: And you got it?

Richard: Yeah, Russell still pays me out. It's mad I became an international Oscar-winning successful movie star. Dickie became a TV star in Australia, you know, suck shit, pal.

Tommy: It was very bare bones MTV to what it has become, or did become.

Richard: I disagree with that. You know, we— I think we raised the bar significantly. You know, prior, Countdown had had its, you know, time, dare I say. You know, Countdown was revolutionary when it started, but we came on air on the 16th of April 1987, and You know, we had a nice big studio set in Channel 9 and we had the advantage of all those bumpers, you know, the play-ons and play-offs, the biggest stars in the world saying, "I want my MTV." So we had a— it was a pretty—

Josh: you know, it was in the sense of it was just music.

Tommy: You look at MTV now and it's very hard to find sitting together on a couch to how it's like. I mean, they're just taking it crazy now. I guess times change in terms of—

Richard: I haven't watched a lot of MTV of late. I mean, I think there was a time when MTV in the States didn't play a lot of music. It was, you know, all But we, yeah, we were sort of running on a smell of an oily rag, but we had that, those production qualities and those assets that we could use that really gave it a pretty good look. And then when we couldn't afford to do big budget productions of bands, you know, we did stripped-down versions. I wanted to call it Live in the Props Bay, but someone else— we didn't call it that. But MTV America liked what we did and they called it Unplugged. So we were sort of the pioneers of that. I'm pretty proud of most of the stuff we did back, uh, back in the day. We did MTV for 6 years to the day.

Tommy: The energy of, you know, landing that role and what you would have brought to it as, you know, fresh-faced TV host to what it is now and the longevity of your career— what's, what's stayed there? What things do you think have fueled that along the way to keep, keep going?

Richard: Well, I thought I was— I I felt very comfortable slipping into that role because I'd always, you know, we had to write our own, well, I had to write my own scripts, which I was happy doing. I love writing. You know, I've got a fair old music knowledge. I played in bands, I played in orchestra. So I think, you know, I've known the music industry from a lot of different perspectives and angles. So I felt the only thing I hadn't done a lot of was, you know, talking to a camera. And nowadays when people, try to embarrass me by playing some of those old clips. I'm talking at the very— and here we go now, that was the new video from Crowded House coming up. We've got Fine Young Cannibals. This is MTV. You know, it was like, just slow down, dude. So I was very excited and in hindsight quite nervous. And I, you know, but I guess that's experience.

Josh: Well, didn't you have to worry about the teleprompter catching on fire back then?

Richard: Well, I don't know if I— did I have a teleprompter in those days? But I remember when I started doing bits and pieces for the Today Show, Yeah, the teleprompter these days is all, you know, I can sit in my dressing room at, you know, 7:30 and be typing stuff in there and it goes straight in there and bang, I can walk on the set and there it is.

Tommy: Can't blame someone else for a spelling mistake when you do it yourself, right?

Richard: No, and also, you know, I like to say what I've written.

Josh: Yeah.

Richard: But yeah, you're right, in the old days, that was all sort of typed onto paper, which used to go through. And there was, I guess, a camera underneath there that sort of spat it out onto something. And then the camera in front of it had a mirror at a 45-degree angle. So it shot up there, and then you do it like that. But on occasions, if you sort of paused too long and the paper had stayed over the heat for too long, you could actually see your script catching on fire in front of your very eyes, which was quite exciting.

Tommy: Ben Fordham speaks highly, and I've heard other people of your work ethic and how much time you spend, and I can imagine that it's something you need to love the process. Do you love the process of TV?

Richard: Yeah, it's not a hobby, you know, this is what I do. I always say it's more of a lifestyle than a job. You know, my phone is always on, I'm always you know, talking to people and finding out what's happening, and I like to be up with what's going on. And, you know, it's not competitive, but there are other people out there, various networks, and, you know, you want to get the big interview, you want to get the stories.

Josh: So how do you deal with competition then? How do you reconcile it? How do you—

Richard: Well, You know, there have been— Molly and I were sort of fierce competitors back in the day. You know, we'd be battling each other for that, you know, Rod Stewart interview and stuff. I think I'm less competitive these days. Angela Bishop, who's, you know, the entertainment person at Channel 10, she's a dear friend. She lives a couple of streets away here and she calls it the entertainment precinct. We were both flying back on a plane from Los Angeles on Saturday night. I flew up there Saturday morning to speak to Olivia Newton-John. Spent the day with her and sort of went up and back in the same day. And Ange had been up there a couple of days. But, you know, she was— I said, "What have you been doing?" She said, "Set visit." She said, "Can't say." I was like, "Okay." She said, "What were you doing?" I said, "Olivia. Goes to air Tuesday. You can't beat me." So, you know, it's— And of course, you know, Sunrise on Channel 7. Edwina's a lovely person. She does their entertainment. And it's, you know, we all find ourselves in the same place on a number of occasions, sitting in the same sort of green room, waiting to talk to whoever's— to Bono or whoever's there. And there's a great camaraderie. And I've always said that, you know, well, is, we'll play the ball but never play the man. And that's an adage that I've espoused right through my career.

Josh: Do you like sport? It's a sporting analogy.

Richard: Yeah, it is, but I think it's a good one.

Josh: Yeah, it's great.

Richard: You know, you'll tackle the show and you'll try to beat them with something, but I've never put shit on any of my competitors.

Tommy: I mean, I think with the media consumption through Facebook, Instagram, all these things, I think it can be distracting. We're looking left and right at everyone around us, which I know that I've felt a bit anxious when I'm not in the position I want to be. And so there's a lot of noise happening. Was this something when, you know, the 10 years into your career, is this something, was there, was it more noisy for you then and less so now?

Richard: Yeah, I think so. Cause you know, in the early days you're just going at 1,000 miles an hour. And you never smell the roses. As I said, MTV went for 6 years to the day. We did 2 3-year deals until the time when MTV wanted to have their own channel here. Fox Television was up and running.

Josh: So what was the difference then? So did Nine own MTV?

Richard: Channel Nine owned MTV back in the— for 6 years owned the rights to broadcast a programme called MTV, which was basically in hindsight a sort of a late night rock and roll entertainment show.

Josh: And were they only licensed? Was it always the plan that it was eventually going to—

Richard: I don't think there was a long-term plan. And what, there was a 3-year plan? Let's do this for 3 years. I've got the poster. I Want My MTV starts April 16th, Channel 9. So it was a Channel 9 production, but Viacom had given a license. Yes.

Josh: And then did they take, take that back and start doing it themselves?

Richard: We did 2 3-year deals, at which time It was a kind of a clunky marriage too, to be honest. You know, when Wimbledon came on, MTV sort of went off, and you know, so, but yeah, pay TV was up and running and MTV naturally wanted to do their own channel, which they did.

Tommy: I think for a lot of people, work can be blurry when it comes to friendships. You know, you develop all these people and mates at work. I mean, you deal with some of the biggest names in the world where you're on a very personal basis with them chatting back and forth. Is there, I mean, have you developed really close friendships with people that you end up on the red carpet, or is it like that when you're working in an office and you're like, oh, there's John?

Richard: Look, I've never sort of sought to befriend people. You know, it's a kind of an art of, the red carpet is just like a zoo really. Well, I call it a moving, you know, it's like a tsunami of of superstars, really.

Tommy: Yeah.

Richard: You're just grabbing something and, you know, editing it all up together so it looks fantastic. But there's no opportunity on a red carpet to strike up a friendship at all. But, you know, I've made friends with a few people, but I've never sort of deliberately thought, gee, I'd love to be mates with this person. But yeah, you know, people like Michael Bublé, Keith Urban, Nicole, several I don't want to sit here necessarily dropping names, but Cindy Lauper. I first met Cindy in Japan.

Tommy: But I think that's why I ask, because it's an unusual— like, you're in a unique position where it's just what you do.

Richard: But if someone sits there and is nice to you for 20 minutes, half an hour, it doesn't— everyone's doing their job.

Tommy: Oh, I'd add them on Facebook personally.

Richard: It doesn't mean that you're going to say, oh, well, let's catch up and have lunch next Thursday.

Tommy: Top friends on my iPhone.

Josh: Ben Fordham was telling us a storey about how—

Richard: Benny and I have become good friends.

Josh: Yeah, I mean, he talks so highly of you. And it's one of those—

Richard: you tend to exaggerate.

Josh: No, but for an international audience who isn't familiar with the Australian media landscape, you are Australian royalty.

Richard: Oh yeah.

Josh: And so I think that like, you know, just— yeah, we don't know the difference. But Benny was telling us a storey about you being on the phone. I guess this plays into the getting the experience exclusive and the friendship where you were saying, oh, you get, you get a call, you pick it up, oh hey Robbie, oh really, oh no, oh fuck.

Richard: Um, and it was Robbie Williams.

Josh: And, um, do you recall this one?

Richard: It's got the best initials in the business, our Robbie. There's a picture of him up there somewhere. Yeah, I love Robbie a lot. You know, he's had a, what, that I'm trying to think what the storey is.

Tommy: It had something to do with a baby.

Richard: Oh yeah, there was that. No, Robbie's a lovely fella and, you know, we've crossed paths a thousand times and, you know, I've introduced him at ARIAs and things. And in fact, I remember the first MTV Europe Awards I went to with Michael Hutchence. Oh, there's another one. And some other people, the French Transport people had done the big shutdown. No one does a strike like the French, so no one could get out of town. I remember U2 guys were there and they were all going to charter a bus up to Belgium and try and fly out for there, and the Bon Jovi guys didn't know what they were going to do. But John's wife Dorothea was quite happy because she said, I'll just go shopping for a couple of days. But no one could get out of town. And Robbie was there, he'd just left Take That, and I think that was the first time I met him. He was enjoying the the first fruits of being a solo star. But we've crossed paths many, many times, and I like him enormously and respect him and see him for all his talents and all his sort of flaws and see the difficulties that he's been through and all the triumphs as well. And we've had some great times and nights out. But yeah, there was one time when I heard that he and his beautiful wife had just had a a new bub and I sent him a little note, mate, thanks, congratulations, you know, wonderful, happy days, you know, love to all. And he sent me a note back saying, yeah, I think we're going to call— I've forgotten the name, was it Charlton or something? He said, we're going to— I said, oh, great. So I sent out a tweet, you know, hey, congrats, congrats to Robbie and the family for blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And he He did call me back and he said, mate, we hadn't actually announced that, but I guess you did that for us.

Josh: So I retweeted it.

Richard: No, I don't think he did. No, I was actually mortified because, you know, unwittingly, yeah, I tried to do something nice and it sort of blew up on your face.

Tommy: But actually, I did the same thing with Jules Lund, but I just don't have a following. So I mentioned that he'd had a baby. But Jules Lund, I'm sure you've worked together at the Nine Network. Jules is that person for me that I can single-handedly say has been the most influential on my career and pushing me to where I'm going. For you, is there someone that you could single-handedly say that person? I'm sure there's a bunch of others, which, you know, for me there are a few others, but Jules really is that person that has helped me.

Richard: No, no, I mean, I've looked at a lot of people and noticed the way they've done things and navigated situations. But, you know, I wasn't really— there was no one there who I was going, okay, I want to follow in that person's footsteps. Because, you know, I was, as I saw it and see it, was sort of sailing uncharted waters. You know, what I was doing, this was the growth of television that I sort of— when I came along in the '80s, television was still a major growth industry. These days, I guess, with 'cause, you know, so many with the internet and so many other streaming services and what you guys are doing and the pie is sort of shrinking and everybody's sort of trying to hang on to what they got. But, you know, I realised that it was a great opportunity and if I could, you know, be good at what I do, I've just tried to be good at what I do, the best that I can be at what I'm trying to do. That's all I can do. So, you know, I've worked really hard had some wonderful time, am having some wonderful times.

Tommy: I think people with great work ethic could also be in the category of people who are hard on themselves about the work they do. Is that you?

Richard: Oh, it's a bit like me, yeah. I remember flying back from speaking to Olivia, as I mentioned, on the weekend, and I was just kicking myself all the way back. There was one question I wished I'd asked her that I'm not going to tell you what it is.

Tommy: Oh, she watches. Sure does.

Richard: But you know, I am a bit hard on her and I'll always remember, you know, you always sort of think about that thing rather than— and there was one when we went to Jamaica for the launch of the Bond movie, you know, I was— and we did have the exclusive with Daniel Craig and all that was fantastic. Yeah, I went to Michael Parkinson in London recently, did a special with him. Went to Maastricht for Hooli, for André Rieu, and you know, I get to do a lot of kind of cool things.

Tommy: So how do you antidote it?

Richard: I'm always hard on myself. I go, ah jeez, I wouldn't need to see the photo and go, couldn't you have smiled? Or you watch it back and you think, oh mate, come on, you know.

Josh: Do you watch back your stuff much?

Richard: I don't sit there poring over it, but you know, when it goes to air, you say, you know, just did this and here it is. Went to Jamaica, went to Woodstock to, you know, recount the 50 years since then. And you look at it and you think, why did I wear that puffer jacket on national television? And someone said it was probably quite cold. Yeah, it was cold. Anyway, you know, because television is such a visual medium. And as you get older, you've got to remember to hold your guffin and smile a bit more.

Tommy: Activate core.

Josh: Yeah, I mean, my core isn't— I'm very, very much struggling. I'm very awkward.

Richard: You're sweating and this must be horrible.

Josh: I'm fine, I'm fine. The visual thing, like I'm very much someone who has fluctuated in weight and things like that. The TV medium, does it put the extra pressure on you from that sort of aesthetic or personal?

Richard: I should probably let it put more pressure on me than it actually does. You know, over the years people have giving me crap about my hair, which is great. Thank you very much, mate.

Tommy: Look at your son Christian, that's some seriously great hair.

Richard: No, I've always had— my hair grows so much I get a cut every 10 days, I guess. It's like bamboo. Yeah, but like, it is like—

Josh: it's very upsetting though, because that's the dream. That's the equivalent of someone saying like, I can't put on weight. Let's go, go fuck yourself.

Richard: People give me shit.

Josh: Um, what do they say? What do they actually say?

Richard: Oh, I don't know. I think And I've had people like Phil Collins and he's done skits and stuff about my— but they're projecting, you've got great hair. Actually, no one, no one could care less about my hair than I do, and that's probably the problem because I get out of bed and—

Tommy: well, isn't that a funny fact? People care more about things than— oh no, sorry, it's the other way. A lot of the time, a lot of the time.

Richard: Yeah, well, I get up in the morning, I throw my black jeans on, put a white shirt on which is hanging up nicely in my dressing room, but Chelle and I put a jacket on and a tie. They like me wearing a tie these days, which is fine. But you know, I think it's much harsher on the women on television, you know, the people that we work with. As you know, Carl famously displayed a couple of years ago when he wore the same suit for a year. No one can ever rat's ass.

Josh: No one mentioned your white shirt. No one.

Richard: It was a different white shirt. But you know, I think that said it all. That was a really powerful thing. Thing that he did. Whereas the girls get so much crap, you know, where'd you get that dress from? Such and such. Well, don't get any more stuff from there. And they get a lot of nice compliments as well. But, you know, it's the journalists just doing a job, but you have to do all this other stuff as well.

Josh: How do you deal with— I mean, there's been huge changes. There's been everything from the MeToo movement. All of that stuff has gone through the entertainment industry, I guess, in a big way. Having seen the whole journey, seen it from the 30 years and seeing what was acceptable then to what it is today, how do you reconcile it?

Richard: Well, I think it's vast, really. And it's only when you look back at sort of old movies— I watched Blazing Saddles on a—

Josh: So this is great, the ice machine.

Richard: I always wanted to have an ice machine and I've got one, which is very noisy.

Josh: No, it's great. How often does it make ice?

Richard: You know, whenever it needs to.

Josh: Good ice.

Richard: It's very good ice.

Josh: Filter water. Do you have filtered sort of? Yeah, of course. Yeah. Okay.

Tommy: So Richard, do you mind if I grab the soda?

Richard: No, no, no, no, no. Go for your life. Um, um, no, I've— Blazing Saddles, it's probably before your time. I don't even know when it was out, but, but it is so racist and, you know, oh, misogynist and God, it's just— and yet it was a big hit. Mel Brooks, you know.

Josh: Um, did you have that lens at the time? Like, would you say, oh, that's a racist film, or was it just—

Richard: No, I don't think so. I think it was I think it was very— I think we've come a long way in a quite short space of time without necessarily realising it. I think we only maybe realise it now when the pendulum's starting to swing the other way and we're all going, wow, is this, you know, was this petty PC overcorrectness, which I think there is a fair bit of. But I think we're all, certainly in the broadcasting medium, I think we're all far more mindful of what you say. And more so what you don't say and how you couch, you know, terms and things. Because, you know, when you're live on air for several hours a day, you know, there's an enormous number of landmines there that you could potentially be standing on.

Tommy: I mean, swearing's one. That's why you probably— it's a filter, never swear. And so when you swear on this—

Richard: well, when you walk into a television studio and you've got a— well, as soon as you've got a microphone on, you know, Rule 1 is you never swear or say bad things about the boss. Not that you'd say those anyway. I think things have changed. You just look at the stand-up comedians and the stuff that Ostentatious and Vince Saranti in those early days of stand-up and the comedy scene right around Australia. Rodney Rood, Rodney Rood couldn't be Rodney Rood today. You know what I mean?

Josh: Christian's heading off, I think.

Richard: Where are you going, darling? Waving goodbye.

Tommy: I know where he's going. He's got a shoot. He told me he's got a shoot and he said he might be late. So, okay, bye darling. Uh, in terms of, uh, seeing this landscape change, what, what have the TV stations made, you know, set in stone as far as rules? Obviously there's some obvious, but—

Richard: well, they don't sit us down and go, okay children, today, you know, We're not allowed to say bugger on air. No, there's nothing like that. I mean, there's the code of ethics that as a journalist you're required to read, and you've got to know when things are assertions or allegations and when they're fact and what you can say so that you don't get the network into trouble so that it could potentially lose its licence or anything like that. You have to— there are legal requirements for anyone going on air and saying anything that's potentially dangerous or inflammatory. I just think it's more the tone these days, you know, as to what you say about women and ladies and blokes. And, you know, it's just, it's almost a different vernacular than it was 30 years ago.

Tommy: What about bringing out snakes and, you know, things that are really—

Richard: Bringing out snakes.

Tommy: Snakes, like if there's an actual— Reptile. Yeah, I guess.

Josh: Is that what you're talking about?

Richard: You have to call it Mr.

Josh: Reptile.

Tommy: Bringing out a reptile.

Richard: Or Miss Reptile, sorry.

Tommy: You know, when Steve Irwin bitten live on, on camera, you know.

Josh: So just like insurance and shit, people getting a bit more—

Richard: Oh, you're talking about dying on it?

Tommy: Yeah, I'm talking about, you know, getting hurt on camera.

Richard: Well, we have to sign, um, you have to sign a form these days when you do anything that, you know, is dangerous. I remember we did a— there was a stunt just a couple of months ago where Sonya Kruger and I were parked on top of this thing where we had those crusty demons flying us and flying over us and doing loops on— I wasn't I'm not fond of that at all. But of course someone comes around with a clipboard and says, "Diggy, you need to sign this." And you go, "What is it?" It's like, "Well, we're not in trouble if you die." It's like, "Well, why would I sign that?" "Because you have to." "Okay, alright." So, you know, if that's what you want.

Tommy: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, is that a vast difference to 15 years ago? 5 years ago?

Josh: How many stunts are you doing?

Richard: I haven't had a lot of motorbikes fly off.

Tommy: You're the stunt reporter, right?

Josh: The international, side of things. So when you were talking about MTV, you were mentioning the fact that you had to create something different for the Australian market in regards to, I guess, what was available.

Richard: Well, we wanted to. We didn't have to, but we wanted to reflect what was going on here. We didn't just want to— back to that conversation— didn't just want to flick that. Well, it was— would never have happened, but we couldn't just flick the switch and play American MTV because half the acts, Australians wouldn't know who they were. And we wanted to be playing Cold Chisel, INXS, Midnight Oil.

Josh: Is it changing though now? Is globalisation happening based on people consuming things like social media?

Richard: I don't know how to answer that. Ask me the same question a different way.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: Oh, this is good.

Josh: Yeah, no, we love the pushback. So I guess— when you're in Australia and you don't have access to things like the internet, the consumption might actually be more significant than today where there's a lot more sort of culture that's the same.

Richard: I think I know what you're struggling to suggest. I still bump into people, you know, who come up well-meaningly and say—

Josh: I'm drunk, by the way.

Richard: Just half a glass of Pinot Grigio.

Tommy: That'll do it, that'll do it.

Josh: Absolutely.

Richard: It's like, mate, which is lovely to see you, you know, you You forged, you created my taste in music when I used to watch MTV all the time. And, you know, you forged my musical sort of understanding. And my first instinct is sort of, sorry about that. Or you should have aimed higher or something. But, you know, I guess there are a lot of people who did. You know, we were sort of an influential show. We were there 10:30 till 1:30 Friday and Saturday nights. Biggest stars in the world coming and live on the show, sitting on that comfy leather couch. And, you know, we had access, as I said, to all the MTV News stuff around the world. So we got all the videos first. And back in those days, you know, we got a world premiere video from Icehouse, you know, and it was a big deal for us to break stuff like that for the first time in the world. Great Southern, you know.

Tommy: Richard, I think we could talk black and blue about your career because it's— I mean, I grew up with it and I mean, as young as Mason is, he even grew up with it too. But you also do have 5 beautiful kids.

Richard: That's correct.

Tommy: And you've been able to forge a massive, you know, successful career. I worry for myself about trying to be a man of the world. And also I'm 31, just turned 31. I've got a 2 and a half year old, but I feel moments where I feel a bit, I feel bad for wanting to chase my dream so hard and also have the family.

Richard: I don't think you should feel bad about that at all. I think everybody feels that way one way or another. I had a Down syndrome son. That's probably irrelevant, but I had Adam when I was 18. Met a 16-year-old schoolgirl, had sex for the first time. She fell pregnant, we got married. We had a baby, he was Down syndrome, and I wrestled for a while as to what to, how to, what to do for him, with him, because I had dreams too. And, you know, the marriage didn't survive, obviously. No one said it would. I tried to, we both tried. Yeah. But eventually, you know, I put Adam in a home where we still saw him and took him out for weekends and, you know, and he ultimately went and lived with another family. But I've never had him adopted, or not that there's anything wrong with that, but, you know, he's always been my son and I've always been a big part of his life and he in mine. But, you know, I've sort of felt bad because I came to Australia, that was in New Zealand where Adam still is, and we don't see each other nearly enough. But he loves it here. He doesn't travel that well, so we don't see him here as much as we'd like to. He's got his own space here and his own, you know, he loves jumping in the pool and splashing around.

Josh: That's another thing we want to talk about. Ben Fordham's mentioned the two pools, but we'll get to that in a sec.

Richard: Ben exaggerates. You've covered that. No, but I felt— sorry, but I felt very guilty about, you know, putting my dreams ahead of Adam, if you like, because some people said, oh no, the place for these children is in the home and you've got to do this and do that and you're just shopping out your, you know, your responsibilities. And I did wrestle with that, but ultimately Adam is better off because I, you know, got stuff out of my system and did what I want to do. And so, but yes, Adam got me started in that in a big way. So as your counsellor here today, I wouldn't worry about wanting to be a good dad and chase your dreams.

Tommy: Amazing having a counsellor at a bar.

Josh: What, I mean, what is, if you were to say, uh, Richard Wilkins' rules to life?

Richard: Richard Wilkins' rules?

Josh: Yeah, your rules to life.

Richard: To life or for life?

Josh: Uh, for life.

Richard: For life.

Josh: So this is a different book. That's a book. Yeah, so if you were to go, what are some of those key things that are the non-negotiables for you? So family and all those things, how do you make sure that Do you have little check-ins or stuff that you make sure that you do every week or every month or every day?

Richard: Now you're making me feel very unprepared for life. No, I don't. I mean, I don't have daily check-offs. I, you know, I want to be a good dad. That's the primary.

Josh: What does that mean? What does being a good dad mean?

Richard: Well, I guess it means knowing that your kids are all safe and secure and happy. And loved. And I do that with varying degrees of success. You know, I've spoken to my daughter today who's riding a horse down by Bateman's Bay. Christian's here. Haven't spoken to Adam. Becky, my daughter's with her beautiful baby, 18-month-old child. James, her husband, had his birthday yesterday. You know, Nick, my son's working hard in an edit suite making good television. So, you know, they're all happy, they're all doing their things. That gives me solace. You know, if there's something going on with one of the kids, then that's the sort of stuff that makes me— keeps me up at night, if you like. But I think— and then you've got to be happy in yourself, and you've got to be a good person. My mum was very wise, and she always said, if you never tell a lie, or if you always tell the truth, you never have to remember anything. And that is a good adage for life, I think. You know, there was a time in my life when things are a bit crazy and you, you know, blah blah blah, and you're telling someone this and someone else that, and you have to remember, shit, what have I done here? But, you know, I love— I have no secrets. You know, Virginia and I, we're so good, no secrets. Just ask me a question, I'll tell you the truth. And I think that's a good principle. I love it.

Tommy: I love it. There's an energy that comes with telling lies that embody you and overtake you.

Josh: Has that been a learning? Is that having to experience it before you sort of get to that point?

Richard: I mean, I've never done anything majorly wrong, but you tell a few little fibs along the way and then they eat you up. And you think you tell one fib and you've got to tell 100 more to cover up the first one. You know, we see that in court every day, let alone in daily life. But no, I love having a good, pure life. And the older I get, the sort of purer I want to be. I just want to be a good guy. I want to be happy in myself, healthy, happy, work hard, be a good partner, be a good father, be a good friend, build a happy home. The older I get, the less I like walking out the front door, I'll tell you that. You know, I love going to work, but I love being home too. And this is my sanctuary here. And, you know, when people come in the front door, they're always welcome and it's good to welcome them in. It's always good to say, see you later.

Tommy: Is that how you do it?

Richard: I've got about 15 minutes.

Josh: So I think you've got it dialled in, like the, you've got the Sonos going so you play the music that you love.

Richard: I want to feel comfortable here.

Josh: Do you have travel things that you do, routines every time you travel because you're doing it so much? Do you have This is how I, when I go into a hotel room, I do this.

Tommy: Well, we know it's Qantas that you're flying with.

Richard: Yeah, no, I do love Qantas. Qantas, I've been flying Qantas, you know, we all have a favourite. That's mine. They look after me. I've done a lot of, you know, stuff for them, corporate gigs and whatnot. Hosted the G'day USA stuff that Qantas have been involved with for many years. Back in the day, I did a lot of brochure launches for Qantas Holidays. So I know a lot of the people there. Beautiful people. It's an awesome airline. Um, it's quite a good plug, wasn't it?

Tommy: Oh, that was amazing.

Josh: How do we make money out of it?

Richard: Well, no one's making any money, but it's lovely to walk on a flight.

Josh: We'll take tickets.

Richard: Seriously, it's nice to walk on a plane, you know, in London or LA or somewhere. G'day, Mr. Wilkins, how you going? You know, and you feel like you're halfway home.

Tommy: Um, there is something about the kangaroo flying through the sky. Yeah, that even makes me feel— and I don't have Feels like home to me.

Richard: Yeah, you know who wrote that, don't you? Randy Newman wrote that song.

Josh: Oh no, I didn't.

Richard: Randy Newman's coming out here for a tour.

Josh: Feels like home to me. It's a great song.

Richard: Beautiful song. Yeah, once upon a time I used to, I was probably not busier, but I had more stuff, different stuff on the go. I had columns and things and I used to put a lot of stuff into my travel kit and I'd say, I'll write that on the plane, I'll read that on the plane. I'll listen to that on the plane. So by the time I got on the plane, I had a pile of stuff and I'd sit there working away. And now I'm completely the opposite. When I get on that plane— Here's Virginia. Can I?

Josh: Yeah, yeah, yeah, sure you can.

Richard: Come here, sweetheart. The boys are recording.

Tommy: Hello.

Richard: Come here, come here. Just come and kiss me for a sec. We're up.

Josh: Hi, how you going?

Richard: Boys are rolling and we're—

Tommy: Yeah, we can say hello. Hello.

Richard: You okay? Yeah, I'm— you're gonna be how long? 10 minutes, 15 minutes.

Josh: Okay.

Richard: Hello, hello. Why don't you have a drink? This is Josh and Tommy and— I have to drive and pick up kids. You're gonna go? In a minute. Okay, I'll see you up there soon. Sorry.

Josh: That's all right. Yeah, so the— you were talking about the fact that it used to be a bit busier.

Richard: Now I see, yeah, but now when I get on the plane that has my time and normally I'm knackered and if I'm flying back from LA, the QF12 leaves at 10:30 at night and by that time you've had a full day's work and go to the lounge and have a, sorry, you go to the lounge and you have a drink and a bite to eat and sometimes I'm about 3 hours into the flight, my chair's still sort of straight upright. So I just love relaxing. Relaxing on those flights now, watching a movie or something.

Tommy: Is it a place that you can get work done or you just disconnect?

Richard: No, I don't, that's what I'm saying.

Tommy: Is that the opposite? Yeah, I'll just—

Richard: Just let the brain rattle away for a while, but then just switch off. 'Cause normally I've got it, the QF12 lands at 6 o'clock and normally I just go straight to work and straight into Channel 9 and do stuff in there. So yeah, the plane is my, as people always say, Michael Buble, Richard, now we're gonna have dinner tonight. We're gonna go out and have a few drinks and da da da da, and stay the night and then fly back to Australia tomorrow. And I said, no, Michael, we'll go out, have a few drinks and dinner, then I'm going to the airport and I'm flying all the way back to Sydney. He said, you are crazy. I said, well, you gotta sleep somewhere. You might as well do it on the plane. Yeah. And wake up back home. But, and he was the first, that was the first time with Michael that I, that I sort of did a turnaround in the same day. But it sort of works for me. You don't have time to get jet lag.

Tommy: What about the place that you switch on, you do your work?

Richard: We've spoken to a lot of authors that, "I need to go away to this place and sit here and then have a bakery treat after, otherwise nothing gets done." It's interesting you say that, 'cause I learned something from Peter Fitzsimons, the very accomplished author who's married to Lisa Wilkinson, who of course I worked with for many years and been a friend of mine for a long time. And Pete always says that when you have, 'cause sometimes I can be lying in bed and I can write a script in my head or an intro or this or that or some questions for an interview and it'll be so clear and you think, ah, yeah, I've got it. And you think I'll be able to remember that. And you wake up in 3 hours and you've forgotten the whole damn thing. Whereas Pete always says harvest the freshness. In other words, when he's writing and when it comes to him, which I think is normally in the morning, he just gets up, sits down, bang, does it and harvests the freshness. And that was a great gift from him. And that's what I do. So in the middle of the night, if you're thinking, it also means you can get back to sleep without having to try and, okay, yeah. So the first question to Michael Parks is gonna be this. You know what I mean?

Tommy: Yeah. Hoping to remember. That's when you forget.

Richard: Which you never do. Great idea for a late night show, yeah.

Josh: Is there anything in life that you feel like you haven't done yet or that's on your list that you want to do?

Richard: I haven't had dinner tonight. I'm really looking forward to that.

Tommy: Yeah, pretty hungry.

Richard: No, I'm not really. Sorry, I was trying to be smart. There's a lot I want to do. You know, I want to produce a movie. I've got a couple of ideas. I've got a lot of friends who make films. That's something I'd like to do. I love working in television. I like the daily thing. You know, I see friends of mine who do make movies make records and I'm not that sort of person, you know, who have something and over a period of a year or 18 months they create it and they polish it and they make it shine and bang, there it is. You know, I've made this movie, but you know, I work in an industry where we, it's a different skill set, but we're churning stuff out on a daily basis. You know, when we come to that movie and go, "Oh, that was a lot of crap." It took me a year and a half.

Josh: Yeah.

Richard: No, but it's still, I love the pace of what I do. And I, you know, sometimes I feel like I should slow down a bit having done it for a while, but other times I think, well, I'm just getting the knack of this now. I enjoy talking to people. I think that's my favourite thing. You know, doing a nice, doing a good sit-down interview with, you know, Bruce Springsteen or Paul McCartney or one of the icons or Neil Finn or Mick Fleetwood, who I interviewed the other day, Brian Brown or Sam or, you know, all the— I guess the people who've got a few more miles, you know, on the belt. I'm interested in their journey and, you know, how they got started and what they did with the disappointments and hiccups along the way. So, you know, I love talking to people and finding out what makes them tick.

Josh: Do you still have like moments where you have to pinch yourself 30 years in?

Richard: No, I've never really done that. In fact, maybe I should more because sometimes I don't take it for granted. But, you know, we flew to London recently, actually Virginia and I, she's got— well, I flew to London recently and did a— we were in France, so it wasn't that far. But going to London and we had a couple of hours with Sir Michael for a special on the Nine Network. And I obviously prepared for it, but you can only prepare so much because you, you don't want to just ask a series of questions on a piece of paper in a list. So you've got to be prepared to duck and weave and go with the tide depending on how the conversation's flowing. But, you know, being so well prepared, or so, so prepared, if you like, when he finally walks in 'Hello lad, how you doing?' 'Sir Michael, lovely to see you, sir.' And it's not a pinch yourself moment. You realise you're in the presence of greatness, but because you've— you're prepared and you're sort of confident, it's not a pinch yourself moment. It's really— there's a job of work to be done, you know. You're both pros and you get on with it.

Tommy: Yeah.

Richard: What is—

Josh: yeah, I was just gonna say, what does prepared mean to you?

Richard: Prepared means Taking your fun seriously, you know, being, reading your notes, making notes, thinking of, you know, if I ask him this and he says that, then where would I go after that and what would be the follow-up after that? And how, 'cause you don't just wanna ask stuff that, you know, you've read in the newspaper and ask the same questions 'cause you know what you're gonna get the answer. You wanna, you know, challenge him and yourself and, you know, do something interesting that that's good for both of you.

Tommy: Richard Wilkins, thank you so much. You've been so generous letting us sit at your bar and have a chat. We love having conversations too, and this is another one of them.

Richard: Well, good luck with the podcast. You're welcome to more soda water.

Tommy: Thank you.

Richard: Thank you. Another half a glass of Pinot?

Josh: Yeah, well, no, I'm definitely tipsy. It's great.

Richard: I don't think you can say funny farm anymore.

Josh: Sorry about that.

Richard: Really?

Josh: What is it?

Richard: No, it's No, it's an institution for people with problems. Okay. Or something. Or not problems.

Tommy: I can reset.

Richard: Do it, do it. Richard, thank you guys. Hey, listen, thanks. It's been, it's been, it's been great.

Josh: Thanks so much, Richard. It's a Daily Talk Show. Hi@thedailytalkshow.com if you want to send us an email. You can also review us on Apple Podcasts. Otherwise, we'll see you tomorrow.

Tommy: See you guys.

Josh: Catch ya.