Tanya Hennessy On Therapy, Imposter Syndrome & Finding Your Voice

Tommy: The Daily Talk Show!

Josh: It's The Daily Talk Show Episode 458 from our makeshift studio at Overlow Hotel Woolloomooloo. Yesterday TV royalty— today internet royalty... Tanya Hennessy?

Tanya: I hate being called that.

Josh: Oh you do?!

Tanya: Okay no no no what is it though—you don't like crowns; you don't like media royal?

Tommy: No, or power? Or the Internet even!?

Tanya: Nah, just the Internet I think—I almost had like a fight with Joe Hildebrandt. Yeah oh my God yeah well he was really rude to me but um so anyway we're here now talking about all sorts of stuff including how much time has passed since last week on this show because there were some big storeys happening over the weekend: First off let us talk about your appearance yesterday when you came out for lunch which made everyone go "Ohhh!" What did they say?

Tommy: They said things like 'What have you done?' Um, uh-huh.

Tanya: Is it that you don't like crowds?

Josh: You don't like people around you? No, no, no—oh I then you didn't did like Power or the Internet either?

Tanya: Uh-uhh, nah, it was the Internet have I think. Ah yep okay. Almost had like a a fight with Jo Hilderbrand. fight with Joe Hill-Doran the other day because he finished Studio 10. I just happened to be in the makeup room and he was like, I said, oh, you finished? It was 12 o'clock. And he goes, yeah, I just go home and do nothing now. Like, and I was like, I'm so used to hearing that from doing breakfast radio. He goes, can't all be internet celebrities. And I was like, I have 2 acres! And he was like, whoa.

Tommy: I mean, the funny thing is, it's a fair point, but for us, we see internet as not only the aspirational thing, but there's nothing low status or negative about—

Josh: What do you think? Kids thinking years ago, 30 years ago, I want to be a rock star. Now it's I want to be an internet superstar. YouTuber. Yeah, exactly. That's what they say. I remember living in Bondi and we had a phone chat and you had just— oh, you hadn't even released a video yet. Do you remember us chatting about this? Yeah. And it was amazing because you were talking about, oh, I've got this first— I've got this video on a release, but I wanna make one before it. And we just had this great discussion about releasing a video or putting something out into the world essentially is what we were talking about. And you did it and it fucking worked. And I remember you feeling not so great about it working at that point. I still feel weird about it.

Tanya: Well, it worked. I don't know, I don't know. 'Cause it feels like I'm fraudulent or, you know what I mean? 'Cause I've worked so hard on my radio career. Like I used to get in it like before, you know, like 3:30, like when I first started, then obviously rolled in 5 minutes before I was supposed to be on air. And then, you know, I'd finish at like 2 o'clock in the afternoon and then I would come back at 5 and I just worked so hard on my craft of radio. I'd edit everything myself, I would do all the podcasting. And then I did this video that I didn't even edit. And it, I don't know, like it kind of happened very naturally, the digital stuff. Whereas I've really tried to work on my radio career, but I've always got way more success in— even though I do have good radio success, I don't know, it just feels a bit bizarre to me. I still am coming— I actually still like, I'm in therapy because like I can't understand or how to deal with what's going on. Because I was just like a normal person and now people like scream at me in the street. And I'm still a normal person. I'm like, ah, what do you want?

Tommy: But is there some power in knowing that you can't control this shit and that some things will work, some things won't work. So you just do the things you want to do and then you'll be good.

Tanya: Yeah, I just like being myself professionally.

Tommy: And so is there, is there an issue that you feel like with the internet thing you weren't doing that?

Tanya: No, it just felt like, I don't know, I felt too old to be on the platform. I still feel a bit old to be on the platform, but it's not really relevant anymore. It just, it's such a juggernaut, like it just became this thing. And I guess it's weird because I just don't watch my videos back. I feel a disconnect from it.

Tommy: And so is it the difference between video and audio then?

Tanya: Yeah, just my audio is such a— I feel like it's a craft, but my digital is like, whoops.

Josh: Well, I think it feels accidental, but then you could also say it's an accumulation of musical theatre background, your radio chops, and then into this. And so it's like a combination of all of the skills you've been building throughout your life that is now where it's landed at.

Tanya: Yeah, like literally everything has led up to where I am now. I'm like happy. I don't mean to sound like I'm like nihilistic about it. No, yeah. I'm stoked, I'm living my best life. I'm in activewear at 9:00 AM in a very nice hotel with two men. Woo!

Josh: Talking pre-show about eating cheese.

Tanya: Sosh talking about that. I like that, that's relatable.

Tommy: I mean, is it the, I guess radio, there's a focus. So it's like, okay, whatever I say through the mic.

Tanya: You know the discipline, whereas there's no discipline for the internet. It's like, do whatever you want. Have you seen that guy who just like dances and talks at the same time? It's like, what are you doing? What do you want? It's super weird. Like my brother's really into it. And there's so many niches on the internet. Like there's no right or wrong. Not that there's right or wrong in radio either, but it's more of a discipline. Than social because we're still figuring out what that is.

Tommy: So is that an identity issue then? Is that saying, okay, with when you're on the internet, the internet can be cat videos or it could be people doing ASMR or whatever it is. And so where it's like radio, it's not like radio is not really a freak show, whereas the internet has everything.

Tanya: Yeah, and I am a freak show on the internet, and I don't mind being that as long as I get paid. And so, I mean, I'm not some money chaser, by the way. I got like, uh, because you know how you get paid on, on Facebook now? Like, you get monetization. Like, everyone's like, oh, you must make heaps of money now it's monetized. I made like $14 last week.

Tommy: What'd you do with the 14 bucks?

Tanya: I've still not come through. Like, I was just waiting for the money to come through. Like, it's so shit. But I'll tell you where there is money— YouTube. YouTube. Like, pre-roll, mid-roll, end-roll, whatever roll. All the rolls. All the rolls. I've met these like teenagers who are like multi-millionaires at VidCon and stuff. Like it's unbelievable how much money. I'm talking like 40, 50 grand a month. But is that narrative— that's just, that's just monetization, that's not sponsorship.

Tommy: But is that, uh, narrative destructive to the industry? I guess because you hear these storeys of the people who are doing it, but it only comes—

Tanya: success only comes to those who are creating it for the right reasons, uh, making original content, who are passionate about it. Because you're not going to make consistent content for years before you actually break through unless you're passionate about it.

Josh: So what were your reasons if the result. Didn't matter?

Tanya: Yeah. Well, there was no result. Like, I didn't expect a result. I just wanted to, well, I messaged Jules Lund when I was in Toowoomba doing radio and I sent him my presenting showreel and I was like, hey, what do you think of my presenting showreel? And he was like, can I call you? And I was like, uh-oh, hated it. And then he called me in Toowoomba and I still remember the street I was on 'cause I watched Getaway all the time. Like, I was like, oh my God. And he talked to me and he was like, don't make, presenting videos. Like, you're not the best presenter. I think you're really good at being yourself. So just do 2-3 minute videos of you just being yourself and put it on Facebook, see how it goes. And I was like, okay. And then the best bit of advice he gave me was, and keep going. And I was like, okay. First video I put up, 1.3 million views in 24 hours, or less than. What was the video? It was called The Difference Between 18 and 30. I was 29, just about to turn 30, and I screenshot it and sent it to Jules, and he was like, Like, I don't think he ever expected it to go like that mental. And he was like, keep going, keep going. What do you got next? What do you got next? And I was like, oh shit, shit. So I just, I kept going and I've continued to keep going. And I guess it was, I just wanted to be myself and be funny. And I love radio, but you work in a team and I actually really like working in a team, but it means that your vision sometimes is amalgamated with somebody else's, and it's constantly a compromise, which is fine. But on digital, you are the director, you're the editor, you're the CEO, and I kind of liked that. And yeah, like, I don't know, I still find it weird that people even watch my videos and turn up to my shows. I'm like, why? But cool. I do have massive imposter syndrome because when you create on the internet, people aren't applauding and people aren't, you know, like— and also don't read a lot of the comments because I've had a lot of negative comments, so I sort of try and help help myself psychologically with that kind of stuff. Yeah, it's bizarre. It's the weirdest thing. But because you have no boss, there's no one there going, "Great, try this." And I don't read my analytics 'cause I don't give a shit. I make stuff how I want to and how I feel as opposed to an analytical researcher who goes, "Ooh, they like this type of video, make more of those." It's definitely a more intense landscape than something like radio in terms of the feedback you get, the visual thing, your statistics.

Josh: Skyrocket and not. And so then you can ride that wave. What from radio can you actually translate to the video stuff or to the solo business or solo operator style? Like video—

Tanya: sorry, radio is short form, so it's like, you know, 2.5, 3 minutes. It's really catchy, it's punchy, it's engaging. And in radio, you know, when people come back for an ad break or a song, especially if you're in a competitive market, they've got a choice. So you've gotta get them in that first 15 seconds. So I always put the most interesting part of my video, hopefully, at the first 5 seconds, then put the headline and go into it and make the cuts really hard and fast. And when you're editing audio for a package, that's generally what you do as well. But yeah, short-form content, which is why I really struggle, 'cause I'm trying to write long-form at the moment. It's so difficult for me because radio and digital and the writing that I do is all short-form, but to try and elongate is, very difficult because I just have no training in it. But that doesn't mean I won't do it. I love a challenge.

Josh: You just build a muscle in a specific area. And so now it's just trying to work out a new approach.

Tanya: And also radio's real relatable. Like I've always found that the most engaging content that I've done has been relatable on the air. So I'm like, okay, how can I put that on digital? But also a lot of it, it sounds like I'm way more strategic than I am. I literally just turn the camera on and just try and I think there's a—

Josh: It works if it tells them how to get it. There's intuitive strategic, which is I think what you've done. The hard thing about radio shows and new ones, I mean, you've had a bunch where you go into a small town and it's obviously an audience already there of just the locals, and then you have to work out what to cater to that audience. The unique thing is you've built an audience where you know how to cater to them because you've been there throughout the growth period. But at the start, those conversations we have early on, the conversations I've had with myself are, 'Who the fuck is this for? Who am I making this for?' You, 'Oh, maybe I could make it for these kinds of people,' but that doesn't exist yet.

Tanya: The weird thing is, and I don't know if you've come to this point, Tommy, is like, I just go, I make it, I make it, full stop. And then hopefully it finds an audience. And I think that's like a good message for anyone who wants to work in social. Make it, make content you like, make content you consume. Like, I don't, like, in saying that, I love a lot of true crime and I don't make a lot of true crime. I like a lot of storeys about murder and I don't make a lot of storeys about murder.

Tommy: Or you don't make murder.

Tanya: Not that you know. I'm kidding. I'm kidding. Oh my God, oh my God. Um, but like, I love short form. That's how I like to consume content, so I write short form. My book was basically short form video and audio in a book form because I know people have low attention spans. But yeah, like, you just make it for you. It sounds narcissistic, and it'll find an audience. I think if you go the other way around, you're constantly searching for what other people want, whereas if you just do you you'll find an audience. I really think that.

Tommy: I find the therapy stuff interesting 'cause it's something that I've always grappled with. I feel like I should go see a psychologist.

Tanya: Oh, definitely you should.

Tommy: No, I'm kidding. No, but I think it's a good thing to do, right? Like to be able, like, can you share what going into a therapist for the first time, I feel like my instinct is to like say, okay, this is what I wanna talk about. I'm worried that, okay, I've only got an hour. How do you manage? What you're going to talk about, uh, with someone.

Tanya: Well, I've been seeing a psychologist since I was 19, so like 2 years. 2 years. Thank you so much, Tommy.

Josh: We're all, we're all only 21 in here.

Tanya: So young. Well, how old are you?

Josh: No, he's legitimately 19. Oh, are you really? Yeah. How annoying is it?

Tanya: I never know how to talk to teenagers.

Tommy: Like, are you like TikTok?

Josh: Can you have a conversation with a 19-year-old? Let's see how it goes. Ask him anything, he'll answer. Do you like YouTube?

Tommy: That's generally my to?

Josh: Okay, yeah, I actually don't watch that much YouTube. Yeah, what do you watch? Um, Netflix. What do you watch on Netflix? Um, documentaries.

Tanya: Yes! Oh, he's a cool 19-year-old. Yeah, yeah. Old soul. Do you drink a lot? No, no, don't drink at all. Whoa, he's a freak! When I was 19, I was never sober. Keep going.

Tommy: What else do you want to ask Mr. 97? You were born in '97? No, so he's born in '99, but he got an NTAR score of 97. An ATAR of 97.

Tanya: Are you like a genius? So he's smart.

Tommy: Smarter than us, yeah.

Tanya: What do you want to do when you grow up?

Josh: Grow up? Working with Tommy and Josh is pretty good.

Tanya: Come on, be honest.

Josh: No, I actually would. You want to be on camera? Not at the moment. I'm happy being behind the scenes at the moment.

Tanya: Do you want to work on TV?

Josh: Nah, I like the new sort of form stuff. Wow, cool.

Tanya: You like the internet?

Josh: Yeah. All of a sudden he's validated.

Tanya: I'm on the internet.

Josh: Forget what I said at the beginning.

Tanya: I'm internet royalty.

Josh: This is actually how a 19-year-old date goes these days. Yeah, this is good.

Tommy: Well, why don't you ask your Spotify question?

Josh: Oh, what's your latest song on Spotify that you play? Juice, Lizzo. Why? This is what he asks on dates. Oh, I think that's nice.

Tanya: A bit modern. Like, it sounds a bit like, oh, I'm definitely got apps on my phone.

Josh: Lizzo's great though, isn't she? I love Lizzo.

Tommy: But do you actually need the date to get out their phone to check? 'Cause it's very specific. You said, what was the last? I mean, I've never actually done that on a date. Okay, so you were just only bought one. I've only had a couple.

Josh: He's only had a couple dates, so.

Tanya: Yeah, but you should just go be free. Go be you. You don't date, just go pash people places. I'm gonna be the worst parent, by the way. Go take drugs and play on the road, you know?

Tommy: Good advice from internet royalty.

Tanya: Now I'm all of a sudden like, this is me.

Josh: That's how I identify. I mean, Richard Wilkins wouldn't give that advice.

Tommy: I like Richard Wilkins.

Tanya: I'm so awkward. Every time I see him on a red carpet, I want to be like, hi, but I can't.

Josh: He's the voice we all grew up with. He's like dad.

Tanya: Like, he's got such a dad vibe.

Tommy: Yeah, he's very— he's super warm and like so loving to his kids. Yeah, the therapy thing. So you— sorry, no, that's right. I will deflect. I'm just— no, I'm super interested in it. So you started, uh, going seeing a psychologist when you were 19? Yes.

Tanya: And in every city I've moved to, like, I've lived in Bathurst, Melbourne, Sydney, Newcastle, Griffith, Toowoomba, Canberra, back to Sydney. I've seen a psychologist in all those places. I will— like, the first thing I'll do is move to a town, then find a psych. What's the—

Tommy: what's the quality of a psychologist that you look for?

Tanya: Oh, you just got to collect— like, click with them. Because I've left plenty of them being like, you don't get it.

Tommy: Do they need to be a fan of you? Like, do you want them to— so be tough on you? Like, do you find that you connect with people when they say Tanya, you need to, you know, you need to stop worrying about this, or is it more like, you need to go to therapy?

Tanya: They don't talk like that.

Tommy: Yeah, how does it work?

Tanya: Yeah, how does it work? You probably need to go to one and then you'll figure it out, because if your curiosity is leading you down there, and also it sounds like you maybe suffer from anxiety just from like identifying it in myself. The whole cheeseboard, was that it? No, just like I think your mind runs and you leave a lot in your head, and that's, it's a good thing, but it's also like a hard thing, and I identify that in myself. And yeah, like I can I can hear you on a soul level.

Josh: So then what's the catalyst at 19 to make the decision?

Tommy: Because if— I'm 20, uh, how old am I? 29. Yeah. And so the thing is, like, growing up, growing up, it was one of those things, like, I think there was a slight stigma not to go into a psychologist or whatever, but I remember growing up and my mum said, if you don't behave, go We're going to the doctor about your ADD. I was never diagnosed with ADD, but it was that whole thing of like, in the back of my mind, I was like, I think I'm an ADD kid, but if I like sort of just do it at home, I'm gonna be okay. Fly under the radar. Yeah, which is, I think it's sort of a toxic way of looking at it.

Tanya: It is, but it's also like what people had and what people knew at the time.

Josh: But is that thinking the result of the stigma that we grew up with around mental health?

Tommy: Well, I think part of it is I fucking hate admin. I can't like do anything with admin, let alone like— so part of it is it's like the going and finding a psychologist multiple times like you have, like that's a huge amount of admin.

Tanya: No, you just go to a doctor and you say, hey, like I'm sad, or say whatever your symptoms are, and they say, hey, like maybe you should see a psychiatrist or a psychologist. A psychiatrist will give you drugs and a psycholog— and it's a bit more in-depth so they can diagnose like schizophrenia or bipolar or whatever. I've had a lot of mental health in my life, not myself, but a lot of my family, good friends, very, very intense psychological issues and mental health issues. And then, you know, you say— and then they give you— the GP will refer you to a psychologist and you get on a mental health plan and you get 10 sessions for like half the price. It's so good. And then if you don't like the person, you go back to your doctor and say, can I see someone else? Yeah, sure.

Tommy: Like, it's actually easy. Is there mechanisms though?

Tanya: You're making it hard in your mind.

Josh: What I'm saying is the catalyst. What is— when do you go, fuck, it's the last resort? And how do you not wait till then?

Tanya: It's not the last resort.

Tommy: No, but I mean, if it's like from an asthma— yeah, and that's the thing, right? It's like preventative asthma thing. I never use that purple fucking puffer.

Josh: Is it because you had to brush your teeth after using it?

Tommy: Yeah. Do you remember? Did you ever have asthma? I think we're a Mad Men person. No, hey, yeah, I've got like a MyGov message at the moment, and my theory is if I don't open it, it's like an unread Instagram. They'll be like, oh, Oh, Josh hasn't opened it yet. I should open it. But I mean, how are you with admin?

Tanya: Terrible. That's why I have a manager. Yeah. Please do everything and I'll just turn up. That's what's so terrible getting in a day. So what's the deal?

Tommy: I mean, that's, but that's why I think it's so interesting that someone who doesn't necessarily think they're good at admin, you've been able to get over that hurdle for calling up booking in appointments?

Tanya: Well, because you just have to. I know the alternative. Yeah.

Josh: And then what, so did you ever push back on it or no?

Tanya: No, because it's been too successful for me to push back on. Yeah. And also like you work in the public eye and people comment on you and people will hate you and people, you know, it's too much to put onto your friends and family. Like you've, I felt like I had to take responsibility for my feelings and then do something proactively about it so I could live a better life instead of being inside my own head or being sad all the time. And I can't make my best content and I can't I can't be my best self if I'm sad, and that's it. And so it's like this, you either go down the rabbit hole, and I know how that feels, or you try and lift yourself back up. So I try and lift myself back up because like I can't create there, and I love to create. My meaning and calling is to create. I watch a lot of Oprah. Like I met this person the other day and didn't say like, how are you? I said, what's your calling? And I was like, oh fuck. Put down the Oprah podcast.

Tommy: Does Oprah have her own channel now? Is it O channel? Because remember O— Oprah Winfrey Network.

Tanya: Yeah, what's the— She has her own channel.

Tommy: OWN Network. Okay, yeah, the OWN Network, I guess.

Josh: OWN Network.

Tommy: Did they bring that to like Foxtel or anything?

Josh: OWN, Oprah Winfrey Network, OWN. But I don't know. No, but I don't know if it came to Australia. I'm sorry. When do you create your best work?

Tanya: When I'm feeling it, not when I'm meant to do it or supposed to do it. Like if I'm sitting at home and go, I've gotta do that video, I'm gonna write that thing. Like this morning, maybe I was late 'cause I was writing. That's okay. You're in your place. And also I got stuck in traffic. I probably should have given a bit more time. But yeah, I was writing and I was like, I'm writing the introduction to my book for the second book. And I was like, I'm just on this. And I woke up needing to, and that's when I need to instead of have to is when I write or create my best. Or if I'm at home going, oh, that's a good idea, then I'll just film it. And that always goes the best.

Tommy: What's the feeling? You wake up, how do you know that you need to write? I don't know.

Tanya: I just, the hand goes out for the laptop or phone. Phone. I write a lot on my phone and I write a lot in the toilet. Yeah.

Josh: Then it makes sense. So that approach, I think, is trust the process. But it's like you could see it as an old creative's process.

Tanya: Oh, man. I'm like the old creative. Like I'm that like weird poet sort of vibe.

Josh: But then radio, the one thing I didn't like about it Is that— do you miss it? No, because I've got this. We've basically built our own radio show, but just with like a little less structure. Yeah, yeah, it just costs us more money.

Tanya: Yeah, exactly. But I wish you had called this the Fortnightly Talk Show.

Tommy: No, well, I mean, that's— it's interesting. I think the one of the things— the own— one of the only points of difference that we have is that we're daily.

Tanya: Yeah, which is, which is similar to radio really, isn't it?

Josh: But then, so this method, which is show up daily, which I find cathartic in some respects. Like, I feel like I get it off my head. I get thoughts out of my brain. You know, sometimes they're good, sometimes they're bad, but that works for me. The radio approach for someone like you that, you know, you want to feel good and then you will do your best work, but then you got to show up. Did you battle with that when you were actually full-time in You know, touring.

Tanya: No, because I always found it like work and it was different and the muscles there. You know when you're like in show mode? Yeah. And you're like, mm, mm, mm, like punching it out, creating it. You sort of go into a different zone, especially when you're collaborating. So I don't know, I found radio more like, because you have to do it. Digital you don't have to do. Like that's my free time. Like some people go to the gym and I just created content. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. So like, I didn't have to do it, but with radio I had to show up, I had to create, I had to be creative, and I'd get mad at myself if I didn't do a different angle that day or I didn't do something challenging or I didn't like surprise the audience. So I had a bunch of like personal KPIs in radio. I still do.

Josh: Do you think the best came out in you in that scenario?

Tanya: Yeah, because, not the, I mean obviously it's like, you know, but you, you're in a controlled environment. And I don't know, the best part about radio is you can— you can be very present because when you're working with a really good team, everything goes like— and you would love this— like your, your mind goes and you're just present. And that's what I like about any sort of live medium because I'm an anxious person. But when you're on, the camera's on, the mics are on, it's live and you're there and it's real and it's present and it's exciting and I forget about every issue that I've ever had. I just get to live in the moment. And that flow state is what I chase. And that's my like, but yeah, no, I think that I did create some of my best stuff because I had to. And that's also an interesting theory.

Tommy: Could you take some of those structures and apply it to exactly what you're doing now?

Tanya: Yes, but I don't get paid consistently on social.

Tommy: I don't get like, So it's maybe a few, you're early to the party, but surely we're going to get to a point where it's like, this thing's big enough where it's like, you can have your team of 5 people and you build your studio that's the equivalent of what a radio, like you create radio on your terms. Like surely that's where it will eventually go, don't you think?

Tanya: I don't know, like Lilly Singh, you know the YouTuber Lilly Singh, she's huge, she's got like full team, she has like multiple channels, 20 million subs, like she's multi-multi-millionaire, she's living her best life. But also her content's really, really good and she's really funny and she's really authentic. I really like her. I think she might be the best YouTuber on the platform.

Tommy: I've never seen her content. What is—

Tanya: US. US, yeah. She's really like, eh, it's quite similar to mine actually. But I actually found out about her after creating my own content. I was like, oh, this girl's like really similar to me, why didn't I just copy all her shit?

Tommy: Well, it's all zeitgeisty too, right? Like, I find the interesting thing is like you can be in separate parts of the world, not be connected, but if you have your own similar experiences, all you're doing is connecting dots, literally. And I, I guess that like some people are going to connect the same dots.

Tanya: Yeah, and especially women.

Tommy: Like, and so do you aspire to that, what you're describing, or—

Tanya: No, I really wanted like I would like to follow maybe closely to like Rebel Wilson's career path. Like, she is such— I worked with her on an Audible ad and she is such a dynamo. She was like, we were doing this thing where I was like running. It was really funny on the treadmill. I was like, this is ironic because the only way you get me on a treadmill is if you pay me. And she was there and she was talking to me, doing the Audible thing. And in between takes, she would like lose all of her energy and just go back down to one, which I really respected. I was like, she's trying to save her energy. She's so smart. In the middle of doing the ad. She was also doing like Studio 10, The Today Show, like interviews, and then she'd come back. Like, she was a fucking dynamite. But she also was like half directing. She was like, you know, when you come down here, do this, when you do this. And I was like, that's so cool. And I know she writes a lot of her own dialogue in scripts. And she's someone who's like famously herself, even though she's an actor. She's definitely a, you know, like Amy Schumer, she plays herself. And I would love to have that platform. I'd love to do film and television and long form and not necessarily be my own director and da da da da da. I only did that out of necessity slash boredom.

Tommy: And so what does the energy to one look like? Would she retreat somewhere on her own?

Tanya: No, no, no, no. Just like, just personally, she would just not be as performative. Like she'd just come down and just talk normal. And then when she's on, she's Rebel.

Tommy: Do you think you struggle to get down to the one? Do you feel?

Tanya: Yeah, I never, at 1. Yeah. And if I am, I'm like in solace because I don't want people to see me at 1 because I'm boring and awful.

Tommy: Yeah, I mean, there's something enjoyable about like having a team that's okay with you being at 1.

Tanya: Like, I guess she has to. Yeah, it's out of necessity. She was doing a 15-hour shoot day.

Tommy: She doesn't come down. But you're doing big fucking days. You're being in front of a lot of people.

Tanya: I remember like, she's in the middle of a court case. I don't know, she's like on a different level. Like, she was literally in the middle of a court case while filming this commercial. I was like, you're fucking amazing. And she could compartmentalise really well.

Tommy: But it's all relative. Like I think about all the stuff just that we see externally that you're doing from the live shows and the content and radio. And The Loop.

Tanya: Yeah, I mean, all the— Fingers, pies, me.

Tommy: Yeah, I mean, so, I mean, do you think that's a bit of a storey that she's somehow different to you in that way?

Tanya: Well, she's just made opportunities for herself by being herself. So I see, I'm like, oh well, if she can do it, maybe I can do it.

Josh: Well, I like to look at these scenarios and say, if you were plonked into Rebel Wilson's position right now, or if I was, or any of us, we probably couldn't survive because it's taken her years to build up. Resilience. You know, she's pushing the ceiling of her own capacity. She is. And so what your capacity is now is huge compared to the Tanya 4 or 5 years ago. Yeah, just from a mental capacity of being able to handle this stuff.

Tanya: And so I can handle so much more now because of therapy.

Tommy: Is it a weekly thing?

Tanya: He's so interested. No, I don't know, it just depends. Like, at the moment it's like fortnightly. I don't know why, she's just like, what's wrong with you? Um, nah, it's like I don't know. Yeah, it's different for different reasons.

Tommy: And so is the good— the reason why it's successful, is it more about outside, like using mechanisms outside of those sessions? Like, do they say, okay, well, when you're feeling this way, do X, Y, and Z? Yeah.

Josh: So what he's trying to say is, can you give him some tips?

Tommy: So yeah, if you can put it in the podcast, I mean, this is, this is part of my problem. Like, I love help, like help like self-help and stuff, right?

Tanya: So do you read a lot of self-help?

Tommy: Yeah, so I've got like 150 audio books.

Tanya: What are you reading? Do you like The Alchemist?

Tommy: No, it's like Eat the Frog or yeah, just all that sort of stuff.

Tanya: Are they more like existentialist sort of?

Tommy: No, like some of it's like super practical, like productivity sort of stuff.

Tanya: You know, like all the paperwork that you've done downloading those books, you could have seen it and could have been really personalised to you and you could have been talking to someone really intimately and I know, I know. And, and, but part of this podcast is just me yelling at you.

Josh: I appreciate it. Um, well, I said to him I'd go to couples counseling. Yeah, we actually, as a team, as a duo, we just, you know, get to sort of air and get through some things.

Tanya: Oh really? Well, not that there's things going on.

Josh: The rebellious 19-year-old in the corner, look at him on his phone. He's taking notes. He does show notes.

Tanya: Oh yeah, can I tell you, once I was working on a TV show, I was like, it was called Bachelor Unpacked, and it was like us unpacking The Bachelor.

Josh: And the camera was not trapped in a box with our work.

Tanya: Yeah. And the cameraman fell asleep and was snoring so loud we had to like wake him up because he was fucking the sound. And then the other day I was doing the loop and I thought I was killing it and I was I was like killing it, went over to the soundie and he was laughing and I was like, "Yes, I'm like doing a really good job today." And I looked down and he was watching Netflix. Oh no.

Josh: I was like, "How is Big Mouth?" Well, it's a funny thing because people have thought that Mr. 97 is on his phone, but he is taking notes. And so we're in this blurred space of someone could be watching one of your videos or doing some accounting work.

Tanya: Yeah, it is weird, isn't it, when you see someone on a phone? And it's hard when you're like at work. Like I went to Pixar this year and I was like working, but I was on my phone and you feel like people are like thinking that you're just texting or whatever. I'm like, no, I'm editing. I was actually editing a video to send back to Pixar in Australia to get approved while I was there. Da da da da. So yeah, like I shouldn't do that to you.

Josh: Headphones in a workplace, okay. Depends what kind of workplace. Well, what about if you're a desk job?

Tanya: Yes. Okay. Yeah, because you're like, leave me alone, I'm trying to work.

Josh: Yeah. I mean, they're banning them at some places.

Tanya: Really? Yeah. No, it keeps you focused.

Tommy: Don't you think? I think people are listening to podcasts. There's people right now listening to us. And if you are mid-work right now, do an Insta story. Yeah, screenshot. It's happening all the time. Like people will have a tab open. Are you a multitasker?

Tanya: Yes, I have 100 tabs open at 100 times a day. I think the—

Josh: what's your desktop look like? How many things are on your desktop? Full. Metaphorically and physically. I think it's a real insight into people's minds. Jules Lund, full tabs, full. Yeah. How's he doing?

Tanya: I saw Jules the other day, but he was like busy, and I was like, hey, and he was like, bah.

Josh: Well, I think what he said from Being on this show is he's on a train and it's gone through the tunnel and he has to just keep looking forward and it's going faster and faster. And so he's built a world for himself at this point.

Tanya: It's pretty amazing and so advanced. You know I was the first person to use Tribe. You were? Mm-hmm. Oh, that's cool. Yeah, it was for a One Direction CD. CD, like this is how long ago it was. And I got a $1 American note and I shouldn't have done this 'cause it's illegal, but I wrote, where it said dollar, I changed the word to direction. And that was my post. I think it's still on my Insta feed. Is it— I got $20.

Josh: Is it illegal in Australia to deface, uh, no, to deface American currency? Because maybe there's a loophole there. Maybe in Australia we can write on an American—

Tommy: we can burn US dollars without getting in trouble.

Josh: You need the dollars.

Tanya: We don't have the dollars. We're so poor, why would we do that?

Josh: Yeah, I think he, um, It's interesting seeing when I was in Bondi at that same time, he'd just sort of launched. We'd made the pitch video for the platform. So it wasn't even created yet.

Tanya: You did all that? Bizarre.

Josh: I don't think he knew what he was in for. No. But I don't think you knew what you were in for because how do you know that it's gonna be like it was?

Tanya: He thinks really, he's very advanced in his thinking, don't you think?

Josh: He's, I mean, to give the advice which he gave to you and what he gave to me, which was pick up a camera, you need to create, not just be a presenter, you need to do more than that, you need to have more in your toolkit, 'cause shit's changing, which was interesting from a simplicity—

Tommy: There's a simplicity to it as well, isn't there? It's like just doing is so much of the equation.

Josh: Well, how do you know if you don't do? It's starting to learn. So once you—

Tanya: You find your voice the more you do it as well.

Josh: What does that mean to you, finding your voice?

Tanya: Um, well, I tried to do stand-up when I was 22, 21, 23, and I just couldn't find it. I couldn't figure out what I was trying to say and who I was. But the more I did content, the more I like refined and defined who I was just by trial and error. And now I do it and I know who I am and I know what I want to say and I know what my voice is and I know what I stand for and what I don't stand for. And knowing what you don't stand for is just as important as what you do stand for. Like, I will never do an ad for Coke. I don't drink Coke. Cocaine, absolutely. No, I'm kidding.

Josh: I wonder the business person behind that.

Tommy: Pablo, he's on trial. You'd have to go direct. Tommy and I have spoken a lot about our perfect day, what our perfect day would be. If you were to describe your perfect day in detail, how would you describe it? What time are you waking up? What are you doing? Where are you in the world? Oh God. What are you creating? What are you— yeah.

Tanya: Well, I like Fiji because I like the water. I like water and nature because like it's good for anxiety. It's like the counter. Like I like before I ever do any sort of stand-up, I take my shoes off and like walk in the earth. It sounds so hippie-dippy, but it's just something that like grounds me and like helps me. So I've this year I've chased nature like nothing else. It's super weird because it's not in my nature to chase nature, but it helps me, so I've been chasing it. How did you discover that? Psychologist.

Tommy: But which psychologist are you going outside for? Have you tried equestrian psychology or anything like that?

Josh: Horse therapy?

Tanya: Like equestrian therapy? Oh yeah, that's generally for like people with really intense trauma. I know that they did that for J.C. Lee Dugard. She was kidnapped and raped. Like, that's more for horse therapy, that kind of—

Josh: That sounds like information known from reading crime and watching crime things that you like?

Tanya: I love crime. I would love to be a lawyer.

Tommy: So the nature thing, so do you actually like to have to be grass?

Tanya: Whatever. I love the water. Water and like real, like not pools, but the ocean. It's like cleansing. And like if you can have your head to the sky and your feet in the ground, that's when you're the most connected to the universe and you can connect. I know I sound so hippie. That's true. It's my calling. I am Oprah. Cheap, but— and certainly not Oprah. She's like God, but I shouldn't say that. But it's like you can connect through both sides, and then you're really connected to your soul and your heart and your stuff. And then you can create from a more real place instead of like being affected by the day and your mind and your thoughts. It's just like the connection to the earth is like the best— I know, the realest place to start from 'Cause then life builds up on you and then you go into the water and you can kind of symbolically wash it away. I don't know, I like that idea and it works for me.

Tommy: And so if you're in the CBD of Melbourne and you've got a show on. Barefoot down Flinders Street. Yeah, what do you, like what is it?

Tanya: Yeah, I take my shoes off and walk around, yeah.

Tommy: Do you find, like what is there a good—

Tanya: I try and find that place.

Tommy: Do you go to like a park or whatever and say okay, there's some—

Tanya: No, I just do it before I go on. I can't do it, yeah.

Tommy: Okay, sure. So you almost need like a, even just a, oh, this could be a good business idea, the Earth Mat. Oh, that's good. And then it could be like you can pick surfaces, like a rocky surface or even like a tub of water. It could literally be like a kitty litter, but instead of putting kitty litter, you put water in it.

Tanya: That's so smart. However, I think it like defeats the entire purpose of it by monetizing it. That's right, that's right.

Josh: You get stressed about the business model and are we selling enough units?

Tommy: We'll get to passive income in a sec. So, um, yeah, so the day—

Tanya: so you're in Fiji or somewhere with water that's real water and somewhere that, um, the air conditioning is quick to access, and there's a breakfast buffet, obviously.

Tommy: Uh, what sort of breakfast is like continental? No, no, no, sorry, you want everything. Yeah, yeah, cooked, uh, omelette station, continental.

Tanya: Yeah, muffins. You need to be at a breakfast buffet that also has like, for no reason, chocolate chip cookies.

Tommy: Like, that's the best, right? You know what I mean? Well, there's some— that's why I love some of the real shitty hotels in the US. I find that the shittier the hotel, the more likely they'll have free cookies, where the higher-end hotels—

Tanya: oh, you're not getting a free cookie. You don't get a free cookie.

Tommy: I remember I was like a gold member of Hilton and they gave you a little like welcome bag. It had two fucking bottles of water. Wow. I was so upset, like, this is what I've been chasing. It was a nightmare.

Josh: So anyway, uh, interesting. The minibar is included.

Tanya: Yes, I know, I've stayed here before and I was here for like 3 hours. I fell asleep and then had to get up and continue. I was on a book tour and I remember taking everything. Just, yeah, open the fridge, just poured it in my bag. It's there to take. It is.

Tommy: And you can— the loot bag, they'll refill as well. Oh really? With Tim Tams and stuff.

Tanya: Anyway, oh God, why didn't I know that?

Tommy: I know, it's great. So, uh, so full breakfast, yeah, options.

Tanya: Um, I like to read. So I might have a read of some book. Non-fiction or fiction? Well, I love true crime, so I love anything real. I just finished reading The Stranger Beside Me, which is Ted Bundy's case, written by Anne Rule, who was a true crime writer.

Tommy: Did he die recently? Recently?

Tanya: No, he was executed in the '80s.

Tommy: Who's the guy? Ivan Milat? Did he just die?

Tanya: He's not executed yet.

Tommy: Is he dead? Why is he not being executed?

Tanya: I'm so obsessed. Ivan Milat is a fucking crazy man. Obviously he like didn't fully kill people. He like severed their neck and like just kept a little bit of them alive just so that like, just so they could like live in pain. Like he's a— and you know, he, because he's from Newcastle, he's our hometown killer. Um, he's— I think it was his nephew, his name was like Malcolm Milat. I can't complete— it was Matt Milat, something like that. He went into— he took one of his friends into the place where his uncle Ivan did all his killings and killed his friend with a hacksaw or whatever. Oh no, seriously? How gross is that? And now he's in jail as well.

Tommy: It's like, is that storey get much attention? I feel like I haven't heard.

Tanya: I know, it's— I just love true crime, so I will like spend— yeah, spend a lot of time.

Josh: Sucks if your last name is Milat at this point, doesn't it?

Tanya: My aunt used to teach him French in jail and said he was so lovely. And obviously, you know, that's the— yeah, yeah, yeah. And like that, I think the thing that interests me about crime and true crime is that, um, like sociopaths and psychopaths, it's all like— I just am so interested in the human experience. Like, what makes someone want to do that to somebody? And, and how can they live with themselves after? And they don't care. That's the thing. It's like, how can you have zero empathy? And I guess I have so much empathy that I just can't fathom it. So I'm so interested into these stories. And one of my favourite things to Google is people's— what's it called when they confess? They confess. And the way they confess is really interesting. Like the BTK, the way he confessed was like, well, I did this and then I did this and then I did this. And he's like, oh wait, the judge says, oh, did you kill him at that point? He goes, no sir, I waited till later. And like, he's very Yeah, matter of fact, matter of fact, laying it down as 1, 2, 3. It's not fucked. Oh, it's unbelievable. And yeah, I'm just interested.

Josh: Did you listen to Who the Hell Is Hamish, that podcast? No, it's great. It's about the con artist, but it's interesting, you know, by the time he then gets caught and how he like, he obviously confesses because he wants to get a lesser penalty or punishment, but cold, absolute ruthless, just absolute scumbag.

Tommy: Yeah. Have you watched the doco on the collar bomb? The pizza delivery guy? What's that one called?

Tanya: Uh, I don't know, it's got an interesting name, but it was like they showed the footage.

Josh: Oh yeah, I was really rattling.

Tanya: This is a normal reaction. They don't react like that. People who do these things, they don't react like that. And then they lie to the cops and it's like, how? How? I just genuinely don't understand. Like, I really want to interview a sociopath or a psychopath sociopath who's honest and knows about it and is self-aware, because you can't interview them.

Tommy: Like, isn't the joke that like people, big YouTubers and, you know, big personalities have these traits as well?

Josh: They say 1 in 25 are sociopaths, but there is functioning sociopaths and psychopaths that don't act out and kill people.

Tommy: Yeah, they just have a podcast. Yes. Uh, so Perfect Day, so you're reading some crime Yes. Nonfiction, it's probably 11 AM. What time did you actually wake up, do you think?

Tanya: I couldn't tell you. Whenever I feel like it. Okay, no alarm. Miss the buffet far? No!

Tommy: The buffet is always on.

Josh: It's your perfect day, you can have it. Yeah, it's always on. 24 hours.

Tanya: Oh, great. And then, I don't know.

Tommy: Are you living at a hotel?

Tanya: Oh God, I do live at a hotel. I travel so much, drives me nuts. I don't know, I go for a swim and hang out with my boyfriend who is like the world's biggest legend. And then I don't know, maybe I do some writing in the afternoon if I felt like it. Only if I felt like it. Yeah. I don't know, I'd like to do something that challenges me. Not like skydiving, but something like makes you feel adrenaline. Uh-huh. What would that be?

Josh: Yeah, something that I haven't done before.

Tanya: Like maybe like— Jetski? Yeah, jetski. Although, can I tell you this? I went to Fiji recently and I said, oh, can I go on the thingy? And she said, no, you've gotta be under 100 kilos. I was like, how dare you? Be so accurate. Is that really the case?

Tommy: Yes, it's like Hamish Blake with the Tramp Legal. Do you remember that back in the day? He wanted to get under 100 so he could go on a trampoline.

Tanya: Yes, literally that.

Tommy: Yeah, I wonder why that is.

Tanya: It just made me laugh. I was like, well, that goes— that's a plan.

Josh: So we're not there, we're not with that woman in the picture.

Tanya: Yeah, yeah, so the perfect day. Into ray diving or, you know, something where you can like not— I don't want to hurt them or anything, but just like see. I don't know, nature's great.

Josh: Could be scared of a shark, which is bringing some adrenaline, but there's no shark because you—

Tanya: but you still got the fear of a potential shark.

Josh: So then it's, you know, extreme diving.

Tommy: So nature— I've got to feel something. Yeah, I mean, nature's so numb.

Tanya: Let me feel.

Tommy: Uh, nature's a big part already, it seems.

Tanya: Yeah, I love nature. It's like a new thing. I always used to be like, oh, animals, no.

Tommy: But now I'm like, oh, animals therapy, bring Yeah, it's almost like there's a big movement into the retreat type space of like—

Tanya: But so many people are like this, and it's because like I believe the world is really hard. There's no distance between work and not work. Everyone's a workaholic. Everyone wants to get ahead. The internet's always on, the TV's always on, the phone's always on, multiple technologies multiple times, emails are always on, your boss can always call you. There's this constant anxiety, and it's like, what can we connect to that's real and it's the one thing that's just born here, and it's nature. And you can connect to that. Hopefully it can like just remove some of that stress and anxiety and help you breathe, literally, because trees create oxygen. You know what I mean? And there's this huge movement at the moment where people are putting trees and outdoor like things, I guess, like trees and plants and whatever into their workspaces because it actually increases people's ability to work and motivates them because it's oxygen and it's real and life. And it's like, we're becoming so consumed with something fake. What's the best way to get back to real? And that is with real stuff.

Tommy: But is it fucked up that they're setting them up in offices? Like, I'm always a little bit, uh, sceptical of places where it's like, we're gonna give you lunch for free, we're gonna put the plants in so you don't have to fucking leave now. You know what, daycare service for kids. Yeah, like, it seems like all of those things— how about, like, we work in places that are a little bit shitty, but you get— we actually like leave and explore.

Josh: Is there a sense of, uh, being in nature also makes you realise how fucking irrelevant we are to the universe, right? It's like, oh my God, there's something outside of this thing up here. Yes. And what I think and all my bullshit, because the trees don't give a fuck.

Tommy: I think that's why the horses are so good, because like if you can like move a horse around or whatever, it's like Fuck, look how busy they are.

Josh: Just sit on horse therapy.

Tommy: Well, we can get you there. Jeff Jowett, a mate of ours, he gets right into horses.

Josh: He was someone who was a very wealthy man, lost it all, was very living incongruently and drugs and alcohol, and has found horses, which, you know, from the outside looks like an unusual thing. He's in love with them. They've helped him so much. And he's not a psychopath, I don't think. But they've been a therapy for him, which is—

Tanya: Animals are massively. Yeah. Have you got an animal? Nah, because I live in a really tiny unit. I don't want to put an animal through that. So there's a happy too, right?

Josh: It's like the existence we have is—

Tanya: I keep them there for my own entertainment. It's like sad as fuck. You will bring me joy! Sad on the couch.

Josh: Well, you think about it, I grew up in a home. That sounds really bad. I grew up in a house with a backyard and I got to have fires and I got to play with, you know, and build a fucking flying fox. I'm just talking about privilege right now, but I'm thinking about my son. We've just moved to a bigger place. There is something about having that stuff, that suburb life, that's moving away if we choose to live in a place like Sydney where it's most apartments around here unless you're Kerry Packer. Exactly. And so how do you then I mean, this is the com— this is combating that, yeah, you know, reality, living in an apartment, but also seeking out nature and yeah, things around.

Tanya: I used to live in Newcastle for a little bit. No, I went home after Canberra for a year, just under a year, to go to finish my book and like to just be at home with my family because I've been in radio for like 9 years, 8 years travelling around. I was like, oh, it'd be cool to go home, but I couldn't because the industry wasn't I wasn't there and it's 2 hours commute and then so you're in the car more and then you're listening to more podcasts and then I was like, oh my God, everyone's gonna kill me. 'Cause when you listen to a lot of true crime, you start to think everyone's a serial killer.

Tommy: Yeah, well it definitely is framing something in your mind, like it is, like that type of content all the time. I can't do it 'cause I feel like—

Tanya: I don't consume it consistently. It's just, you know, storytelling. If people can tell a great story, And, you know, sadly they never end well. But, you know, survivor storeys are incredible. Like, any storey of resilience is incredible. People who can come out of really shit situations and turn them around, like, that inspires the fuck out of me.

Josh: I mean, I watch Suits and I think I'm a lawyer.

Tanya: I watched Nashville and I was like, I'm a country music singer.

Tommy: That's why I like air crash investigations.

Josh: Aviation expert. Yeah, aviation.

Tommy: Every time I'm like, oh, the A380, geez, I fit think I heard that click, which is not good, which is wrong.

Tanya: I don't know what the fuck I'm talking about.

Tommy: It's true though.

Tanya: You watch any TV show and you're like, this is me now. Like, I watch Scrubs and I was like, fuck, I'm a good nurse. Like, also because I always imagined like Scrubs would be like, but it's not like that at all. Yeah. Like they're not doing dick dumb stuff. And like, yeah.

Josh: What's been the video? Because you have delved into things like, you know, nurse and the fitness thing, the comparisons. And what have you learned about one of those that's been really surprising?

Tanya: Oh, well, you know, the thing that I've learned most throughout my videos is that, um, how— like, I was in Dubai recently and this woman who was like from Pakistan was like, I love your videos, like, I love the hairdressing one. And I was like, oh wow, they're so unanimous. And I thought maybe I was— when I first started making videos, I was like, I'm a quirky girl, I'm so different. And then I was like, oh, I'm relatable. Damn it, I thought I was different. But, uh, like, that That was really interesting. And I've been in the States and people like— I remember I was at the front of the Sofitel and this woman drove up and I was on FaceTime to my boyfriend and this chick was like drunk as a skunk. Oh, Tanya, I watch your videos and you're real funny. I'm a nurse, so like I get it. And I was like, oh my God, like I thought that was an Australian thing. Or because I think the thing I've learned is the more you lean into a niche, which is 'cause what Jules told me to do, that's when people really deeply connect. They're like, that's exactly what it's like to be a waitress. That's exactly, like, those nuances are what make people really click share.

Josh: What's the niche for you? Because you almost delve into different, multiple niches. So what is it for you?

Tanya: Well, I think being like an empath and understanding people, and I never wanna make videos to like make fun of people. I do it in solidarity with them. So I think that coming from that place helps, but it's also like listening to people's stories. When I meet a nurse, I'm like, oh great, you know, tell me something. Or I don't know, I'm always wanting to get their information and— it sounds dumb— hear their perspective, heart.

Tommy: I know that sounds weird.

Tanya: So I can convey that in a video so they can go, that's me, that's my story. Like, it's cool to tell someone's storey back to them. But I also like make sure they're all like— all my scripts are like read by a nurse, red, okay, you know, like I make sure they're quite detailed. And then I figure out, I go, I'll call a friend and go, hey, if I said this, would this be a nursey thing? And they're like, yes. And then this is another thing we think. And then I'll just delve deeper into it and hope it's right as well, because I've heard a nurse, spoken to a nurse, I don't know, like it's a lot of my stuff is so intuitive, which is kind of scary because it means I can't replicate it and, and whatever. But it also means that I'm being led by intuition and not buy anything else, which is kind of cool because, well, it's just being you.

Tommy: Yes.

Tanya: And people want this grand scheme, and like, I did this interview for like the government on Monday, and they were like, oh, talking about content. And I was like, I don't know, like, I just do me and hope it works, and that's literally it. And I don't have a grand plan. I never had a grand plan going into it. I'm just like a really, really lucky person who has managed to find what they love and, and does it every day. And I'm really fucking thankful because I've had a lot of nos in my life.

Tommy: And you've worked really fucking hard as well.

Tanya: I've worked really hard, yeah. But I've also had a lot of great people around me helping me to get where I am, and I'm just like lucky. Like, I'm really happy and lucky because not a lot of people get to do what they love every day, and I do.

Josh: Collaborating, uh, you've just done some huge shows with Christian Hull. I love him. How do you approach that as someone who loves to create their own, write their own? But so does he. Yeah, so then you got two.

Tanya: Yes, but we also like love each other so much, and he helped me make videos, like he helped me edit and learn to edit. And so we both have such a mutual respect for each other and always have, like we've always been sharing each other's videos since the beginning. And if you guys come see this, see the show, you'll see why it's not a dual show. It is, but it isn't, because we've lived in separate states, so it's really hard to put together a dual show. So first half is me, second half is him, but we do do some stuff as well together. But that's a surprise. In saying that, our shows are sold out, so good luck. No, I'm kidding. I hope it gets filmed for something. It'd be cool if they could put it on like a one-night stand. Oh, that'd be cool. Christian is such a good stand-up. He's way better than me.

Tommy: Oh, I saw a behind the scenes that he took of you performing, and you just had the audience in hysterics. What's the feeling like when you're on stage and people are bringing you that sort of energy?

Tanya: Well, the imposter syndrome comes up. Why? Why? Why do you— I don't know what I'm doing. Like, is that in the moment though?

Tommy: I feel like in the moment, is it— can you not?

Tanya: Because you have more than one thought at one time. Like, often it's like, okay, now I gotta keep them laughing. Uh, shit. Yeah, yeah. Like, it's, it's over— I over-intellectualize everything. I'm like, why are they here? I'm gonna fuck this up soon. No one No one likes me. This is— they're just waiting for Christian. But yeah, in the moment, all of that comes in. Like when you have a sip of water on stage, it feels like fucking 5 years because it's silent and you're like, ah, fill the space. Because I'm a radio announcer, I'm like, fill the space, fill the space, fill the space.

Josh: So you snort while you drink?

Tanya: Yeah, I was on stage the other day and drunk Red Bull so quick I burped all the way through my set and I was like, I'm so sorry.

Tommy: You just need one of those backpacks like a camel. I'm all back type of thing. Just slurping. I just farted. I've been farting all show. Elegant. No, but I enjoy it.

Tanya: Like, I love it. I love meeting people at the end as well. And but yeah, I feel so like undeserving and I'm like, that's why I see a therapist, you see.

Tommy: But we've got a lot of people who listen who are in all different parts of Australia and regional markets. They have radio shows, they would be seeing your storey and connecting to so many bits and pieces. I'm guessing you probably have them reaching out to you.

Tanya: Yeah, a lot. Yeah, but a lot of them are like, I know you're really busy, and I'm like, I am, and I wish I could give you more.

Tommy: And so what's the— so is it— if this is an opportunity to write back to them virtually through a podcast with some of those bits of wisdom or the things that you think that would really help them?

Tanya: For people in regional radio? Yeah. Keep going, stand out, make original content, scare yourself, challenge yourself, uh, have a healthy fear of mediocrity, which I do, um, and annoy your bosses. Yeah. And ask for feedback constantly, and don't be afraid to PR yourself and be a PR whore. People go 'Oh, you know, I don't want people to think, you know, I'm not myself.' Well, it's either that or you stay in Cairns for 15 years. How can you be a PR whore?

Tommy: Do you just like send emails to Radio Today?

Tanya: I wouldn't, but, um, not my favourite website. I don't know, I think it's more like sending air cheques to people that you care about their opinion.

Tommy: So it's not necessarily about getting things written about you? It's more like PRing yourself. What you're describing is getting seen. Well, it's making really good content that gets a reaction.

Tanya: Like when I was in Toowoomba, one of the best things I did was, well, with my co-announcer, he was like, do we have to do this? I was like, fucking yes. Was doing a, 'cause we were, what's it called? Not near the ocean, landlocked. We did the Ironman challenge when the Ironman was going on the Gold Coast. And it was men ironing. We literally had a workwear sponsor and I had to iron like a fitted shirt, you know, like pants, cargo pants with all the pockets. And then we had like a laundry person monitor it and give the winner their prize. And it was just like so ridiculous that it like made the news on the Gold Coast and Brisbane. And just because it was like so different, but it was also really topical. So it's like, how do you make really outstanding content that, that you can use as PR?. But also like that makes you feel fulfilled, that makes— like I had to pay for the irons. I didn't give a shit. I was like, I want to make good stuff, and if they can't afford it, it's not going to make my heart— like, I need to be fulfilled by creating. And so if someone says, oh, we can't have the budget, I'm like, great, I'll do it myself.

Tommy: What about, uh, the difference between speaking locally and to the community versus trying to serve a bigger audience when you're in a regional But you are serving that audience because they're landlocked.

Tanya: They understand what it's like. Not like you have to—

Tommy: was that the first?

Tanya: I also did a thing called— was it the first thing? No, I thought the name sounded really funny. I did this thing where I pashed my co-announcer for charity in Griffith. We called it Pash for Cash. If we got $5,000, we would pash each other for— I mean, that's such a hate our nightmare now. He did not want to kiss me. He literally cried. He was so sad. And then like Oh, should I tell the whole story? Like, he didn't want to do it. And so we just kissed like lightly, like on the cheek, because I was like in. I was like, let's film it, we'll go full tongue. Yeah, like the rejection of my co-host being like, not even for Cherry. So we did kind of— yeah, anyway, we did sort of kiss.

Tommy: So you kissed on the cheek for fun?

Tanya: It was a— I was going further. This is like a Me Too story. Um, but yeah, no, It was ridiculous. But like, that was for the community, that was for the local cancer charity. And, you know, that's, that's a way to take something local and turn it global. But yeah, like the one thing that radio has that no one else has is the local, the localness. Is that a word? And the timeliness, like you're live, get that news on the air, get that person on the air, you know what I mean? And immediately.

Tommy: I love the Pash for Cash. I feel like '97. Pash for Cash.

Josh: I mean, we've made him bleach his hair. The Shameless girls set him up with a few dates.

Tanya: Oh, they're great. I really like those girls.

Tommy: They're cool. Superstars. And so, yeah, we— I think there could be a path to cash in the 10 years that we're doing it.

Josh: It's for charity, Mr. 97.

Tanya: Yeah. Would you kiss? Let me see your hair. Like, take off your hat.

Tommy: Yeah, it's— You look like Justin Timberlake. Yeah, that's great. He's hot. Yeah, he is hot.

Josh: Yeah. And he can dance. Yes. As in, he can't, but JT can dance. No chance.

Tanya: With some commitment, you could dance. Yeah, he's like, please stop talking about it. What do you feel? What are you not good at? Almost everything. I'm not— I can't read an analogue clock, which is really embarrassing. What is it? I never know what time it is. Like, I never know.

Tommy: Is it the small hand that fucks with you?

Tanya: I just can't figure it out.

Tommy: I'm quite dyslexic. Well, Tommy was saying the other day, 6 o'clock back, 6 back. What was he saying? 6 o'clock back, like trying to turn around.

Josh: Check your 6. Check your 6.

Tanya: You know what that means? Go halfway around.

Josh: Yeah, yes, it's like behind you.

Tommy: If you cheque your 6, means look, you turn around. But it's an analogue clock reference, which is— cheque your 6.

Josh: Check your 6. Now it's just watch your back. Josh, cheque your 6, please. Oh, I'm gonna—

Tanya: that's a good one.

Tommy: Check your 6. Uh, Tanya, thank you Thank you for coming to our hotel in Sydney.

Tanya: I feel like I had so many things I'm bad at.

Tommy: Oh yeah, what have you got?

Tanya: Name one other. Oh, I'm really disorganised and I don't often wear a supportive bra and I never get my hair dyed when I'm meant to. I eat too much food. I'm very unfocused. I can't remember what I'm meant to be doing all the time.

Tommy: This is a lot like me, isn't it?

Josh: It has to finish, what's your superpower?

Tanya: I can connect with people. Like no one else. Love it.

Tommy: Awesome. Tanya, thanks for coming on the show. Thank you.

Tanya: Go see a therapist.

Tommy: Okay, maybe, maybe. No, absolutely, I'm not fucking leaving without some results. If we do it for content—

Tanya: No way, that's what it can't be. It cannot be for content.

Tommy: Well, we're only doing shit for content. Well, that's—

Tanya: no, that is deflection at its worst. And when you go to see a therapist, they'll say, why do you keep deflecting?

Tommy: And you promise they won't yell at me like you?

Tanya: I can't promise that. Yeah, right. They won't yell at you. Either that or go to a fucking horse farm.

Tommy: Just sort your shit out. I'll go to a horse farm.

Josh: Thank you for coming in. As you walk out, you can take whatever you want. Best believe I will.

Tommy: Couple of bottles of wine. It's a Daily Talk Show. If you've enjoyed the show, uh, review us on Apple Podcasts. And, uh, I mean, you've sold out. You like— you've—

Tanya: no, I think there's some tickets for the last Canberra show.

Tommy: Okay. And hope up. Perfect. Awesome. All right, it's a Daily Talk Show.

Josh: See you tomorrow, guys. See you guys. See you tomorrow.

Tanya: I won't be there. Kidding. I've got nothing else on, but I just won't be here.

Tommy: I appreciate the honesty.