- September 7, 2019
Pete Shepherd and Tommy’s bro, Mikey are back for Weekend Banter! We chat about life coaching, Burning Man and their perfect days.
On today’s episode of The Daily Talk Show we discuss:
– Mikey’s life coaching
– Helping people develop self-awareness
– Strategy and tactics
– Burning Man
– US tech conferences
– Mikey & Pete’s perfect days
Watch and listen to this episode of the The Daily Talk Show at https://thedailytalkshow.com/448
Email us: [email protected]
Send us mail: PO BOX 400, Abbotsford VIC 3067
A conversation sometimes worth recording with mates Tommy Jackett & Josh Janssen. Each weekday, Tommy & Josh chat about life, creativity, business and relationships — big questions and banter. Regularly visited by guests and friends of the show! This is The Daily Talk Show.
This podcast is produced by BIG MEDIA COMPANY. Find out more at https://bigmediacompany.com/
It's a daily Talk Show Episode 448.
weekend Banta we got Pete shepherd and Marco jacket in the building. Okay, nice. Pete fresh off the gravy train of Craig hapa. Mike, great episode. Thanks, Michael. Have you listened to it? No. Is anyone in the room? That's disappointing. Greg hapa whiteboard lessons. And Pete. Good. Yeah. Great job. You know what I love about it was different papers. Sometimes we just get real loose. When we talk about bullshit. You, you've actually got something great to say. And sometimes we bring you down. I'm sorry,
guys, but there is a lot of podcast opportunities in the world outside.
It's about your 40th time back on the podcast. How was how was the experience with Craig The first time you met? Yeah. Oh, mate. hapa
was great. He's a ripping blog. Yeah. And it was cool, I think from from both of our perspectives of, he's someone who's been doing coaching and speaking in film leadership for quite a while. He's someone who's, you know, some young whippersnapper, essentially, and sort of that dynamic. And the fact that we both essentially thought and believed and chatted about very similar topics I thought was pretty cool.
What's interesting about the coaching landscape, Mikey, you've had some coaching. You either even tell me that someone else told me that
always gave me a sacred
executive coaching or something like that.
Yeah, so it was so executive coaching that very quickly moved into more of a life coaching area, when I realised that I was a bit more fact that I realised
it was cleaning your pantry. Oh,
yeah. Now, look, it was amazed, like, I cannot recommend it highly enough. Like it's an amazing process to go through. It's somewhat daunting, but I went into it going, I've got some stuff going on at work. And there's some opportunities. And just in general, I want to sort of position myself to take on more leadership within my roles that I'm doing in the future. And so part of that was gay, or I want to kind of have some executive coaching and sort of get to the bottom of it really, it started around understanding a bit more and personality types. And also the like, are I really need to dig deep on my blind spots? And what am I not saying that other people are saying, What am I colleagues and, you know, people that work for me saying that? I don't say so. And fortunately, somewhere where we work, there was Brooke, Molly, who runs life coaching and executive coaching service. I'd, you know, I met her and got talking with her. And she was like, Well, why don't we, you know, jump in. And I was like, Yeah, fuck it, let's do it.
Why don't we do it?
So what did you learn?
Like, so it's a 12 week programme. And it's pretty, it's like, officially made with the coach every couple of weeks. And but, you know, because I was at the comments, and so I was broke, also to sit here on, you know, much more regularly and considered download and instead of bounce stuff off of it, but a lot of it is just to do with understanding what what your drivers are. And and, you know, as I said before, like blind spots are a big one for me, because I know that in life, we bring things to the table that we're not necessarily conscious of, but it really filters the way that we behave and react and how we push through conversations and relationships and all that sort of stuff. So awareness is the biggest takeaway that I can probably leave, or just give you in a very quick answer to that. But you know, and it's awareness of all your behaviour. And
in seven pumps of a soda stream, you're telling us which
sounds a bit unusual
personality type, I don't know what type that is, can you just breathe Mikey's folly about
you is pretty outrageous.
But you see, I made a way or you become aware of things that you didn't know, were happening, or you approach situations a certain way that you didn't know, how do you then sit with the things that you didn't know? Because they kind of negative traits, if you try to go which one's more positive? Or
you have to ask people, you have to say, How am I making you feel?
No, not necessarily. I mean, that could be something that you do, like I did something, which I tried to remember the other day, I can't remember the name of but essentially, it's, you put it out to a network that you know, by relationships, like friendships, but colleagues and just other influential, influential people in your life. And you ask them to pick out of a big long list of sort of attributes like five or six things that would summarise you. And that's kind of identifying your what you know about yourself, but also the blind spots that you know about yourself. And that's, that's like a positive one. But then the more where I started to go, that's, that's helpful. But it's very, like, fluffy and like Garland's nice, then you think I'm a kind person, or whenever I'm like, let's cut the shit like, what am I not good at? Like, what do I do? What do I not what what am I not saying that I want to know and become more aware of so that I can improve or, but just be more aware of it. Like there's certain traits of it and things that we carry that you, you know, my personality type is, too. And this is what became very apparent very early, I went into it going on to learn what's wrong with me, so I can fix it, and then be the best person at the other end of it. That's it? Well, that's not really the point of it, the point of it is, knowing what it's not. And it's not even What's wrong with you, it's knowing, knowing your behaviour, and what you're inclined to do within any given scenario. And then making the most out of that, or leaning into your, into your into your good things rather than trying to resist the bad things. And whatever.
What you want good at net isn't necessarily, you could look at it and say that's negative. Or you could just go, I just scrapped that because I can focus on the ship that I'm amazing at. So you and I, Josh, business partnership, two different were very different. Yeah. And so it's an I've heard you say a few things a few times this way. I'm really shoot at that. And so then it becomes this landing into that, I'm really sure that that will take me so much effort to get good at that. And it will be a waste of my time. And so it's like, how do you split? And so is it reframing what you think of the thing that you're not good
at? Well, the other thing is, it's just convenient. The things I'm shoot out of the things I also don't want to do. Yeah.
works out, like if you just frame it like that. I
know, it sounds like well, we can't have Josh doing it. So. But I think that's the other thing too, right? Like we are, we think we're good at the things that we like, and vice versa.
One funny thing that came up, right, right towards the end, as Brooke was challenging me on lots of stuff, and just kind re you know, I don't know, you know, like, I don't think I'm kind of this person or that will that sort of thing. And then you know, she will come back to that and just wipe it away, you know, like with a couple of couple of things. But what came out of it? Well, I'll sort of sitting there one session, and I was just like, Fuck, you know, that this is it. This is brought up way more questions than it's answered. And she's like, that's the point. You know, like, that is the point. Like, I like having the awareness. And going back to what you said before, like having the awareness of the questions and the continual investigation and seeking out the questions is really the point. Like, it's not really about having the answers, while answers come and go and you know, shift, but it's, that's the, and once you get into that process, and you actually, like that's a scary thing, like when you when you're constantly and I sat there and I'm someone that I can probably consider being reasonably level. And I sat there going, Oh, shit, now send a question. Lots of stuff now. Not real fundamental, like not relationships and not life and not like work and stuff. But just like lots of incidental stuff that you would normally just pull out of the additive, Eddie aside. And, you know, you start to bring it back in and go hang on why? Why would I move that stuff away? To give me my Give me that path? Like, why don't I just bring that thing up from over there that I was that I kind of pushed away. But I I, you know, because I'm shooting it. So I pushed it at what I just come in, bring that energy into focus again, I start to question that or,
you know, I'd like, well, it feels like self awareness is a personal journey. How do you how do you create? or help someone find self awareness? Being on the other end?
Yeah, I think it's I think it's to Mike's point is questions, really great questions. It's, I heard a friend of mine who was also a coach say recently, part of part of what he thinks good coaching is asking questions you don't know the answer to. And I think there's a lot actually in that, which is, the quality of your life is almost determined by the quality of the questions you ask, knowing that you don't necessarily know the answer, but being willing to sit in the discomfort of trying to figure out the answer, or the potential answer to a question. So I think it's all about the questions you ask, based on the context you have of that person,
you know, the some of the guests we've had on recently, one of the most powerful questions I can ask is, what do you mean? Because it's a interesting place to be because there's a someone who's asking the question, if we're asking questions, so it says, What do you mean, straightaway? It's like, there's a reflection there that we have to like, are we need to dictate we're not explaining ourselves not communicating. But it's also it's that like, what does it like communicate or clear, clear is kind? And it's that ultimate? I want to answer this question right for you. Yeah. So I just need to completely understand it.
I love that I've heard the people that have asked the question of what is it that you do? And my friend Jen warm? And she would always respond with? What do you mean by that? Yeah. Is it is it? Do you want to talk about what I do to earn money? What do you want to talk about the fact that I want to talk to the fact that I have a particular What do you mean by that? Yeah, and it's not, it's not to attack the other person, but it's generous. It's like, I want to answer the question that you're asking me. So what do you mean? Which question are you asking? Yeah,
well, the anxiety developed by coming up with a question on the spot, it can be similar to having to answer the question for itself. You know, so that's when the anxiety kicks in. When you like, what did you make? Because you like, have to reframe and delegate it, I like it, because it's sometimes like, obviously not being clear. But then the feeling of not being able to answer something in a coaching session is when you feel it, you get a bit
hot. Yeah. Like,
I really enjoyed that, like I really sat in, like, because I went into it with no expectation, I legitimately didn't know what I was in for. And I legitimately didn't know what I was going to come out the other end with. And so I kind of really enjoyed just being completely present to the process and and just not having a filter of, you know, what do I what am I trying to get by answering this or by, like what you know, not, because that's what I do, like I I plan, sometimes to a fault. Because I'm very processed, driven. So I'm like, a process will get me in, it'll get me through and I'll get me out the other side. Sometimes it does, and sometimes it doesn't. And but but but a like a negative that can come from that is that I'm too focused on the outcome sometimes. And so I need to just go with it. But when I'm in the know, when I'm in the moment, I'm like, this is where I look, this is what I love. Like this is where I love to be Yeah, I just going into it, I can get a bit over analytical about it and try and play my way through it before it's actually happened.
So what are the warning signs paid of someone who you are coaching, that you know that they're just trying to answer the question, right? You know, they're trying to say the thing that you think all that sounds good, right? Yeah. But as a kind coach, you can't be I mean, maybe you do, maybe do call bullshit like that, man. That's the answer you want me to know.
Yeah. I think sometimes there's a time and a place to say, what's the real like, if someone says to you, if you ask the question, what's the hard part? They give you what you feel like is a surface level answer or something that they're just thinking that you want to want them to hear? Sometimes I'll say try again. What is the hapa? What's the like? What's really the hot button?
Yeah, that's a great one, multiple answers, because so Craig, Bruce, talking
about words like this
third thought, third thought, whatever.
Yeah, there's that five wise framework, I think someone has talked about where you ask why five times, essentially. And by the time you've asked answered at the fifth time, you probably haven't used it. But it's a big we use it for like the company vision and purpose is like, why is your company exists? We want to know, why does it really exist? Although we actually wanted to create this change? Why do you want to create it like it's a, it's a framework, I also think the other thing I would say is, and just hearing you talk about this market is tension. And creating tension is actually really generous. And a lot of people really struggle with that, that reframe of tension, and discomfort. And silence can be super generous if you hold it in the right way. So that someone like you can sit there and just sit with their thoughts and figure it out and actually try and think of not the right answer. But I answer in order to move forward, rather than wanting to jump on them and say, Oh, I think what you want to do is this, I think what you want to say is this, it's like no, no, that's not my role, my role is to ask a question, and then shut up and create
that tension. It seems hard when the negative thing or the thing that's stopping you to move forward might have been just the thing that helped you get to where you are. So the planning, for instance, the over analytical side might have been extremely beneficial. And the reason why I succeeded, I think that that's always a hard challenge is working out what it's like, Yeah, well may getting anxious about this thing actually gets us moving and make something happen. But that goes back to you say I'm good at that. And really, you have to sit with that and go hang on, you can't very quickly you can't something that you're not good at. And you put it away to the side and you go we're not going to focus on that stuff. But really, you know, there's potentially an opportunity to bring that into what you do and get the best out of it. But also allow it to be kind of fluid and other people doing to involve themselves within whatever that is. And you know, I like this. There's this good part about it.
Yeah. I wonder about like, when he counting phone, I'm just thinking of a question in my head. Sorry.
Dude, it was actually
I was trying to recap is an amazing question by this guy called Jerry Kelowna, who is a very famous executive coach, you look at the Rain Man.
I just had my right man moment.
This famous executive coach who's been recently on Tim Ferriss, and he's written a book called reboot. Anyway, he asks this amazing question. And that was I was trying to recount that in my head. And I think it is going right now you're doing it right now? How are you complicit in creating the conditions? You say, you don't want
How you complicit in creating the conditions you say you don't want?
Yeah, I mean, I can completely relate to that with no business and thinking about, okay, the constraints that we create, we say, okay, we want to be able to monetize the podcast, we want to do that. However, when it comes to making money, the calls we make is to do the work that we don't necessarily think is going to be our future. And so it's like, I feel like there's also a conversation in deep defensive versus offensive type stuff. And I feel like, it's so easy to go into the defensive mode, but actually saying, you know, what, we're going to keep doing whatever we're doing. But let's do some offensive work, let's actually like, what is the ideal plan rather than being like, let's squash the thing to create space, for the other thing that you want to do, actually making the thing that you want to do so big and so powerful, and actually taking all of those boxes, there's no other choice? Well, everything
we do, whether you call it a plan or not, falls into a framework of a plan. So it's like, the exercise routine that you end up having going to the gym, where you just like I just go, but if you actually do articulate what you do, consistently, you can look at and go all that a plan or, and then shifting it. So for instance, in reference to what we've been doing, you could say are so explain the plan. And whether you've created one for the future or for the place we want to get to, or not the one that we're currently in, isn't that because it's like, it's like I'm strict people who are strategic, I can't remember the word I'm going to do this I'm going to do is that's
I feel like that's only distracting me from working out. What you want to say is I feel
like the summary There is everything is a choice. And being mindful of the fact that even if you don't think you're making a choice, you're making a choice, or you're making a choice to not make a choice, like no decision is still a decision.
intuitive, strategic, intuitively strategic, some people find themselves on a path without putting too much thought into the strategy of it. But for some reason, they're good at doing it on the fly, and implementing where they want to get to in today. Does that make sense?
Yeah, I think yeah, it's whether you talk about it or not, like I remember you stay being really being scared of strategy and being like, what a strategist do. Yeah. And then I was like, dude, I was working out something like content within a business. And then someone said, Oh, you're one of the best people I've ever met at strategy. What was the strategy? What was the whole thing? Because I remember I went to like, Avenue bookstore and saw like the book on strategy. It's the biggest fucking book you've ever seen. I'm like, but Yeah, it is. It is a
strategy not just defined by problem solving, which kind of reveals strategy, you know, why? I think there's what tactics and then their strategy and I think that people confuse the two, like thinking about it in the
you know, like, I guess from a strategy point of view, being able to zoom all the way out and being able to work at a more global level, rather than we're going to move this thing here. Which I think probably asking why is a quick way for
you to do list is tactics to get through to the end of the day, more to complete a day of tasks versus looking at the task why are we doing that?
Well, I guess what a strategy a strategy would be saying that
side with the podcast if you're saying we want to
us we've got a specific audience in mind we want to reach people in Europe who are fashion conscious because if we do that we have this product that we can sell and then saying okay, we're going to and then you can look at the tacky I can't be fun to a strategy and tactics. Strategy well let's hope as Burning Man with it with where Tommy and I were discussing going to Burning Man XU for the WL it
was the thing that we always do this in me watches and then she says
Bernie, man, is that strategy or tactic? Definitely no strategy,
but I will preface me always says you're not telling me you didn't tell me you go to Bernie man. We're not talking about a Burning Man at this point.
Josh You said by which I said we should get a betting big difference between we should end with a book that
document all your good and shit conversations
what's what's the intention behind going
what's the why what do you
know my was my thought was Josh and I so different. I spent a lot of my life getting busy at the club. Yeah, just like doing what a lot of young people do I don't go this much anymore at all.
You said you don't even use the word clubbing.
I'm fucking just playing into it for the people that might not understand how do you explain it I went to nightclubs I got used to go out Mr. Sheet went to the pub got potty potty warehouse parties. My daddy's down on the water. You sound like a promoter party in Vegas couple of days and I had
a lot of fun.
Sleep I've been probably to Vegas more than you have. If they had
a Vegas once if that's what you're asking. The point being is there's also a whole bunch of stuff that Josh does that I don't really have much interest in doing. But I get it and so I'm a fish out of water in that respect. So there's Josh fish out of water so I thought it'd be amazing going to the states and doing like fish out of water for each other right so Burning Man is more something that I'd probably go to in my lifetime
and party party party.
But imagine I was thinking Josh we're getting real fucking ripped and rock hard. He's got he's led this like a bike which is go for Burning Man. Colours just
like you have to go to lead this to Burning Man. It's been hot
night. But when I say leathers, I mean chaps. Yeah. Not a small amount of leather more more. And so it's just about getting you there. We do podcast every day, we go for 10 days, or like PK is just gone for 10 days. Right? And so you get an AVI liner.
It's an experience. I love it. He said time we were having thought about this at all. It's a 10 day plan.
PKP guys got 10 days. That must be what people go for. But I just tend to you could probably bring the family like people do bring kids to Burning Man. So we can bring Bodie bring great Bry bring the sun Mr. 97 but imagine that Avi and then what we do is finish out there and then we go straight to Vegas one of the tech conferences
boring Josh is element you know what's probably a similar crowd though. You know, where all the tech Silicon Valley tops go now.
The Burning Man
punch of the deal. So Bernie I'm still trying to I'm looking at PK storeys and trying to understand
what are you getting from just seeing little storeys
when I was surprised that it looked like they everyone's setting up their own bars where they're doing great. Like he had there was a there was a concoction like a big bottle, and it had like black
that was that was um, trip coffee or what was that all?
Okay, there's no shame todo NE and a lot of these places, right? So
everyone's just setting up their own deck as you go there and there's nothing so everyone creates something I think is the idea. So in order for it to work, you can give someone a coffee and they might give you a beer or we
didn't know about the e commerce side not that he can't like the commerce Yeah,
there's no money you know, transfer of, I guess, finances and
yeah, I mean, what do the Americans do? They do the in vain mo they just
say yes to each other or whatever it is. It's not funny and you just like oh, we just have a bank that you can just transfer but
so there's that it's you just set up and there's like you can do yoga like you can do it healthy. It's not just a drug face. Like some people tried it like that. Yeah. And an orgy fest like this it gets pretty low it would be outrageous but I've seen like a lot of people take their some YouTubers have taken their parents and like they're on the bog it'd be seek was that I didn't want to pick out the credit
he's gone waste I think he one of the guys moms have come on. Yeah,
that's awesome. Maybe my mom
didn't have a friend who's an architect and he was involved in building the time that
they dusty like that. And it was apparently it's, you know, people around the world would kill to be in this position. And he went there last year. And yeah, built it. And then that's the thing they burned down at the end as well.
Yeah, I mean, I think it's cheap. Mr. Nice. me. Can you find out how much tickets to Burning Man are
390 and then you have to pay for a vehicle entry which is 100 bucks.
390 bucks. No, but you have to bring a vehicle about your foot. Yeah, a ticket save say 500 bucks per person. I mean, not would have one would get like a huge RV that we could all stay in. And so it'd be like a full gronk squad. Get a deal with Jake. or whoever's out there it will global company, just destroying like the Avi special
electronic shop, but JKO is the one
using the middle of the
two people go for because I saw 70,000 people or something.
There's been a week already. Like I saw a bunch of people there. And so there's a week before I think it's like maybe like Coachella. Did I miss 97? Can you get the dates, but you can probably just do stints at it. Yeah, it's gone for the final 10
Yeah, maybe what's everyone's ons everyone? What is on everyone's bucket list? Like what if you say like Burning Man and South by Southwest and all those big events. You guys have one on your list only met separately on there for me. But it's gonna like unless you do it as a whatever that fucking thing is you're talking about with the kids and
like that would be cool. Yeah, I mean, how to get away like if you were to wanting to leave the kids.
That'd be cool. That's gonna come later in life. Yeah.
I don't I don't know.
I've bungee jump to skydive I mean those things early days it's funny thing about a bucket list I don't I don't really have one like a probably thought I want to take things off when I was a younger person.
Countries I'd like to visit or like events I mean, I like to go to the Super Bowl one year maybe go NFL I think that would be cool.
Yeah, so it
may just be great vibe. But the biggest thing I went to
like a home away game in San Fran a Candlestick Park when that existed and it was amazing, but it's like five hours. I mean the Super Bowl would be awesome.
So what do you reckon Josh? We do Burning Man and I'll do one of your conferences. Yeah,
I think that's good. So what's the equivalent you got a 10 day tech conference? You're going to take Tommy
it would be pretty fat like I think the ones that what what time if he is Burning Man these
waves of August to the 36 tember
third? Also it's over.
Now I pick it just make went into
reposting old Yeah,
remember you got no reception. You got nothing. Yeah,
he's he really?
Did he sit with the strategist Josh Janssen
the whiteboard now that's
that's true. So maybe it's a bit my birthday too. So would be going Oh, that's awesome. So third of September say it's done? I mean, I'll think Yeah, because I went what's the update? Now? It's probably day one. This is great. I'm looking forward to texting me. No reception is annoying. We can't do that we could do. Yeah, so you do a pre pre weaker podcast and then we get smashed into whatever and just punch them out. We
think all of my things though, that would potentially go to you would love
but not as much as you though.
when we went to New York, there's a camera shop. Yeah. And Tommy wasn't feeling well. So I didn't come
Yeah, I mean, I just had a look around sort of chic. I see it. I saw the thing going around the thing. I was impressed by it. And then I'd went for a quick walk. And I was like this is too busy too many people here. And so it's that same vibe where it's like, I think I think if you land into that, and we had to spend a week living in an age Yeah, there'll be some funny shit out of it. So one of these conferences What are they
all these nlb the CS one of the
early in the GS is a jam Yeah.
In a bay then later in the
south by the problem of South by is you would love to Fei yeah be great. Have you been paid? No, I liked it. So good.
Have you been Mike? I mean, BBQ. And Austin is a really good
Yeah, the good thing about Austin is it's like quite like it doesn't have like huge high rises, like a few and they have like in Melbourne. Apparently there's a rule that you can't smoke foods at a certain distance from like the CBD. Like you've got to be far enough out. Really? Yeah. Whereas like in Austin, like obviously, all the barbecue places are wrong everywhere and the soul.
Yeah, but the rules are pretty loose in the States. That's why really lock it. You've never been Oh, no us.
I've been into the I've been to Vegas. I went to I went to Vegas for two days. I literally flew to the US went to Vegas.
And then flew home.
What was that fight? Gosh.
Back at the bar company. Just one of the interviews.
That was you allowed in the US? Yeah. Okay. But Sorry, guys at a time. Yeah. I mean, I think that I would love to. I've got the dream of living in Colorado one day. Oh, yeah.
You know, add dad's got a piece of property in colorado. YZ. Yeah, he bought it back in the 80s or 90s for 4500 or something just like that is interesting. This is this millionaire or billionaire bought fuck loads of land. And then was like, selling it off in bits and talking about what it would become and there was paid like they've got newspaper clippings about like, what it will be. And I went in and I look at it and I found the location I got it on Google Maps. There's nothing there is
like an acre or something or a couple acres or something.
Yeah, he bought and he might call and bought a bunch to still own it. Like that still owns it. Yeah, we be you'd go there and just like this probably beers is probably wild animals that will kill this
Burning Man on
night. Actually, yeah. If Burning Man is just like, nothing.
Yeah, this is hilly area. Quite remote. Lots of trees. And sounds random and then cold winter and snow like crazy. Amazing. I the other day, we're doing the perfect day. I described my perfect day you described yours. Tommy? was UNT in trouble. Well, I was actually just regurgitating a perfect day that I had.
God pray family.
Yeah, it was well as pre lot of the commitments I have nowadays. So that's fair. Yeah. it in with me getting on a plane to go to
It was after you went surfing. It was it
was a selfish day. And in hindsight, I would do it completely differently hindsight,
it was a week ago. Anyway, Mikey, what's your perfect day, like go into real data or you wake out what happens
and just be conscious that claim might be listening.
Well, so I've just come back from holidays up to No, sir. So everything that I'm thinking about the mode is sort of filtered with the new lifestyle. So
perfect day, wake up.
Yeah, no. Well, I mean, that's like, you know what waking up and not being tired. So not having woken up for you know, trying to settle it. Five months old at three o'clock and I spending half an hour doing that.
He's He's still doing that.
So not being tired, waking up early, like 630 going for a walk along the beach or something like that.
Great breakfast coffee. What's the weather like here?
The weather is just sort of like just below 20 degrees at this point. Just to let you know, like it's still a bit crisp, but you know, it's gonna be a good day.
Gold Coast. Right, that's
my favourite thing. So yeah, just smashing along black. Good breaky. I like good eggs like solid poke cheese. Not solid running. A bit of avocado, but it may be smoked salmon with some capers.
Where are you eating in the cafe?
Yeah, yeah, the cafe where I know some people it's okay.
Look, well. Yeah.
Thanks for running.
Yeah, then what would you do?
gonna know maybe,
like, probably want to incorporate? like doing some like some work. So like, next few hours of the day? Yeah.
I was gonna say family at this point. mentioned just mentioned them.
And your hindsight learn? Yeah,
yeah. just mentioned. And Jim Cameron
with at least at the breakfast.
You by yourself we
told you that perfect day. Perfect.
Yeah, he's very true. When you said people knew you met your
perfect day. You sleeping.
Like hanging around the family? Absolutely. Like, like work for me. Like would be be at home. family. They like interacting, you know, and but doing working towards something that you know, whatever it is, you know, whether it be
your own business?
Yeah, definitely. I'm business, you know, just working toward it. Let's not I can dig into that. Yeah, so working, you know, doing a few hours work.
What software are you spending most? I'm just trying to understand what these businesses
need this. Yeah.
What kind of programmes you use? Yeah.
slack. Just slack just talking about
Now I don't want employees. Okay, so Slack, some maybe some famous, maybe some people that work with you. I had this thought last night actually. Like the ultimate scenario not having employees that you're responsible for words like tying you into describing up work.
Work is like it going Yeah.
Like just people that contract to you or like they're they're invested in what in the cause and what you're trying to achieve, but they bring ideas and fresh thinking is up at the night, but you don't necessarily have to manage them on Passover.
So maybe like partner, would they be
business partners, considered more like partners than employees? I think that's a good collaborators, whoever it is. Because there isn't my thought about this is how important it is to have like people around you that are bringing fresh thinking and ideas to the table from their perspective. So it was this had something to do with something specific. And Chris, who I work with was like, Oh, yeah, I thought when you were talking about that, yeah, I sort of thought about like this. And I was like, okay, like, That's amazing. And I kind of made me go. Like, it's so important to surround yourself with people that are that have a different way of thinking. And because you might be working to the same outcome. Like we might be trying launch a product like that. But I want x from it, and you want something completely different. Or you might be thinking about it from a usage point of view, rather than an aesthetic point of view or something like that. Anyway, that was a long way of describing how I just want to have
Yeah, no goes down in
the bag. I'd steer it seriously. This is there's a lot of fun in this. So keep going in me Yeah.
So yeah, like it just in general just getting some like fulfilling work something done for the day. Then going for a safe or something like Cisco to be good. Or you know, game playing some tennis before having lunch, or a heavy lunch but something just sort of like it kind of doesn't you know, you don't want something that really bog you down.
Yeah, sure. Fish and salad
is I've got a big afternoon. On Monday, yeah. Yeah, something fresh and salad.
like No, no. More like just some fresh salad with some feta. Yeah.
Greek salad now the olives. You just don't want olives?
Yeah, maybe this is really easy. perfect life because Aren't you lactose intolerant? Yeah.
Me too. Yeah.
That was a soy milk.
Drink soy almond milk. Almond milk. is no so bringing the creaminess back into my coffee. So this is the afternoon you having an almond milk latte? Do you think yet probably after lunch after my fresh sort of fish kind of light meal? Yeah.
now what I want I want to do my afternoon.
play with the kids.
Yeah, yeah, family. That's kind of family and friends. catching up with friends is something that's really a big part of my life, but kind of it's become harder and harder. Like to really spend quality time like with Josie and Sammy and you know and even pink
live in No, sir.
We've seen those guys more than you just because we've had them on our podcast.
Oh, that's a good avenue to actually say you met?
Yeah. Because we all the friendships, you know. You have you got mates from back in, you know back from when you're growing up that you still stay in contact with?
Yeah, there's a core group of probably five or six. Yeah, I caught up with a few of them last weekend and it makes 30th but it gets as you will know, it gets harder as you which grow up and going in different directions and someone goes and lives in July when someone goes and lives in Ballarat and I go and live in Melbourne and you just find it harder to create space to even catch up that's that's a real real challenge.
I just want to get the rest of my keys and then we'll go to Pete because I actually think that this weekend banter we can do what we want but I think it is interesting because also it gets you to reflective like my perfect day was like walking along next to a red brick wall you did it and had blue skies yeah and having an iced latte and I was like fuck I was walking to work I was like it's blue skies I found a red brick wall I just walked along it was like tick off of the Grand paradise last night nearly got accidentally ordered a nice coffee with ice cream
lucky Tommy so
probably gone on more of it like a perfect day that's like a consistent perfect day rather than like a specific thing that I would do on my perfect day if I had to change my I want to walk
excellent every day
every every day yeah
MS on the wall that lifestyle you could be in the stock market like you could just would actually just checking your stocks and talking with your stock mates around the globe just chatting stocks, doing a bit of a few investments. You do that out Yeah, I mean cuz that's remember when we went up and stayed in? Do you remember we stayed at Jan's place on the Gold Coast on the Gold Coast calling getter? And I just remember waking up smelling fresh coffee that dog was jumping on our bed Yeah, we were young we would have been like I would have been 12 no younger 11 would have been a couple years older we go down we get a whopper maybe we get Whopper
It was a from hungry jack
Yeah, we walked down because it was like us with big brother and then we were allowed out and so we walked down to the walker on the court the average Andrew Jackson and get a walk with them ago the beach anyway he was into the stock market and that was it. literally get up and then have a coffee and then just be checking that when the market opens
and he was into poker in a big way Really?
surely be stressful.
Yeah, but just the guy that he was into all sorts of get like 500 and bridge and I love the gameplay to love 500 Yeah, I don't play it but
it's unique but I mean you need money to fund that is lot loss.
Yes lives. So yeah. And so then your evening what's what's your evening? Perfect evening.
Like Dina Dina it like early early you should you know, like really locking the early dinner.
Before five nice
yeah, like lunch? Yeah. There's something having breakfast at 10 and then having lunch at 430 dinner at 430 and having only two meals a day. Perfect. Now I did that for a decent period of time and it got me It was great. The thing The only reason I wake up at night is if I can eat no burrito to live like what you're eating at night.
Yeah, because majority of the world a dinner
so early dinner you know between five and seven kind of early dinner watching sunset Sunday night sevens not nearly seven so nearly done a bit between seven five and
six though, which is normal dinner time.
leave it at that early dinner at five to seven whatever your
relative it's all relative.
you know saying putting the kids to bed. I meant depends what age they are at this point.
Perfect Day. How old are they?
Now I only know the name
Yeah, I mean it's a tough question.
It's a dumb question. reframe it
I guess six days What do you mean by that every day they get all
Yeah, no, I kind of like there's gonna be sweet spots with a little shits. Yeah, but I can't I don't know what they're gonna be Yeah. So it let's say I go to bed or I put them to bed then reading a book like like a real good book on getting deep into like getting balls deep into a JPJJT
sounding that's like what was the
pushing you on you? You know like your new books. I'm really
yeah, you're writing your mommy. Okay.
Yeah, Power of Now or something? No, that's
No no, the
iPad and that's pretty deep book isn't it?
I my juice I've been saying but I heard on a podcast the other day that they said homo
Anyway, a lot of stuff on the stove you're taking anyway.
Yeah, so getting like real getting into a good book that I have to read slow because if I read too fast, I just forget it. And then you know, turning off the lights at 930
on a flight you're gonna die. It's not too dissimilar to everyone's day so far.
Yeah, what's yours pay Actually, I was gonna say mines feels pretty similar to everyone so far. So I feel like I'm waking up early as well. And I'm somewhere warm and my bedroom overlooks the ocean I come across the road from the ocean so that I can wake up open the curtain bang sounds rising oceans they're striving for a swim
Would you ever consider being on the side of the ocean? Or do you always want the road
now not necessarily a road like of maybe like a footpath with some grass and then the sand quick swim in the morning and then you know you do your morning pages meditation. Meanwhile, Cadbury my assistant who was established yes he's in the kitchen cooking breakfast it's a it's an eggs it's an awesome with some avocado right edition. Yeah.
Yeah, I can share Cadbury he's a good guy. Long back for sure. A nice long black Really?
If you had a chef you'd still get a fucking long shows commitment to the long black. No, he would make it like he if you had someone that could make anything. And they could do a perfect latte. Now it's amazing. Like Yeah, yeah, anyway,
that's the often Yeah. So long black, nice breakfast, I'm feeling fresh, some water, you know, the winds kind of coming through the kitchen sort of overlooks the page. It's nice. And then I would, you know, have a shower and all that jazz. And then I think the idea of going to an office for me something I would like I don't want to work from where I live. So maybe it's a short bike ride. Maybe it's a short walk, little co working space where I'm dialled in doing some some sort of work, meaningful work with interesting people was kind of the thing that I would talk to Craig Harper about. So whatever that looks like, for me at that time, my applications would be slack and zoom probably because they're the way that I keep connected with everyone that I work with at the moment. And I have plenty of interest in continuing to work with these people. And then maybe calm capris, maybe a nice long I like that idea. You know the fish not too heavy. Not too long. Maybe Chelsea comes in we have some lunch together. She's having her perfect day. I'm having my perfect days. Happy Days around. Yeah. And then afternoon back to the office bit more work. And then probably like four or 5pm I'm going to the gym doing a workout
you know, maybe an hour an hour and a half. I've got a group it scumbag
So I've got a group of nights like all my mates, we all go to the gym together. I'm thinking and this says 20 of us we didn't work out
any of you made at the gym, every bit of fun, but a Banta so you know, that's just a training that you just happen to like the people. Yeah, exactly. Exactly.
And then straight off to the gym is next to the beach as well. So I'm thinking as soon as you finish the workout second swim straight in the ocean afternoon. Which freshens you up to head back to the house. But a dinner Cadbury's made something nice again, we're live setting, you know, maybe a little glass of red or a beer. And then I like the idea of a book as well. Something you know, making you think something very
mind exactly expanding. So
why can't we do this now?
Well, you gotta live in on the Sunshine Coast. The missing
part of the moment is
that we don't live on a nice busy is so Sunshine, sunshine beach, where mom and dad's friends Josie and Bob live, called sunshine be it's called sunshine beach. And it's on the other side of Newser. It's on the other side. So it's nurses, you know, got one sort of area. And then on the other side across the National Park
you to set dressing Bobby
Yes. Oh, no, no, no, I was talking about Jan and Malcolm Bennett. Yeah, so our parents, parents friends live up in this spot. But it's beautiful. It's literally Bob's wife, Bob gets up runs through swims in Nusa
now then they drive their car the night before to the other side of the National Park. And then they run through a run through Sunday, do a swim. And then come back to the car and then drive to the cafe. Same cafe
that's fucking free park the car. So good. This place is is a bunch of houses along the beach. And so it's just perfect weather for that you could literally winter you can swim surf.
And here's what I'd add to that though, Cadbury would take the
gonna take the car again.
I mean, so we have what is stopping us though. So it's the it's
I mean, commitments. It's
how do you can we move into it though? Can we? How do we actively get closer to that vision?
I mean, what, if anything, if any of us paid Scott, the business model to be doing it from anywhere in the world, where there's Wi Fi to still make money. And so that's where we put these roadblocks. I mean, anyone who has a job without the rocket to an office
to huge roadblock the office anyway? Yeah, I guess. But that's
it beyond that. We are the business then it's Yeah. Or you work for invite Oh, and you can just have good. So there are new companies that are jumping on board.
So is it may being unrealistic to be like Mike, why aren't we doing it?
I don't think so. I think it's a good exercise in order to help people see that their ideal life is probably not that far from what they have today. And also to the point that we talked about earlier, full circle that everything is decision. So if you're saying that's your ideal life, and the only way you'll be happy is you have that it's like, well, you're choosing not to have that. So you're
like how do we make these decisions? Why are we making decisions that aren't getting us to a perfect life? Is it because the life isn't about having the perfect life?
Now? We live unconsciously, like that. And again, going back to life coaching and or just any of that sort of stuff. It's like it's asking those questions. Yeah, is about becoming conscious of decision making, and, you know, being can, and then trying to take control
of your outcomes. So then what happens if you're, if you work it out in your 30s you like, Okay, this is my perfect look like I've worked out that this is what I want my perfect life to be or this is what I want it to be all along. But I've made 15 choices that are essentially a fence and I'm stuck within this field.
It's called a border house. Think about that without the begin life investments if you haven't property, it's like these things to tie you down to a life and I think most people who won't even do that, they'll never take the job board, they'll do the thing because they need to be fluid and be ready at the moment. That's a version of you know, it's like you're not willing to make a commitment commitment. Yes. It's a commitment for just the opposite verte version, so not so yeah, I've always seen those people that kind of got my options open. It's like there's power in actually taking commitment. And so the opposite of what you're saying Josh is looking at that perfect day. But what about reframing your life that you have now? Because then why can't that be perfect? Why does like show you kind of said it you walk past a brick wall.
I worked out the within constraints, how can I get the perfect day with the version of the life that I have?
Which is a great a tactic then flipping your life upside down and get moving actually moving to the San Diego
what are the excuses that and is it the people around us? Do we say okay, well, we've got like, where we have other responsibilities and people and
I think it's just all of the above like I think there's just an element of all of that. And you know, it's not a bad thing to strive for, you know, a scenario like we've just explained that we don't have right now but would be something that we could strive for, but it doesn't mean that I don't enjoy what I do now and I don't value family and friends and you know because with the so with moving to let's just forget so with moving to No sir. I move away from something that's really important to me, which is friends and family. Yeah. And you then you know crave that as like one of my friends going to come up here because I've made this commitment this fucking just does you know that then that's been flipped on its head. So
it was that thing? I'm not your perfect debt. Like, is that the thing? If they don't work in isolation, then does that not exist? Is that that thing of like? Yeah, I'm fusing it is I think
I want my perfect day. I don't think there is like a thing. Such a such a thing as perfect in any perfectly so subject. Yeah. And so relative and changes. So like, there can't be one crystal like, clear version of perfect I don't think because Yeah, you got we got the noose around, we live his life. But we take all that for us and our doubts and insecurities. And one day we wake up and we feel miserable. And it's like, Hmm, this isn't perfect. I'm still like, scared. I'm still alone. I'm still you know, all those things come with us.
Well, how many people like I was gonna say I was on my way. Some people have moved cities. Oh, yeah, it's probably a little bit.
Yeah, I used to and it's like, which I know,
a few people in my mind right now. But there, but
there is. But there is a little bit of that, which is like, people who have like completely uprooted or whatever. It's like, what like, why are you in Melbourne? It's like, Oh, you know, I just want to change. You fuck somebody
says it's not a geographical problem. It's a new problem. Meaning if you think you're going to move cities, and you're going to be happy, maybe some people do become happy. Because I fall in love. And that's bad. Well, they find a new job. And it's passion. You know, sometimes it can work. I
mean, I moved from Ocean Grove growing up to Melbourne to go to uni, and to create a career and all of that. And that's been great. Like, that wasn't running away from anything that was a progression of growing up. So I think there are versions of it that work.
And I think it's also just don't get fixated on the act being the solution. Like it's pilot, like, it's cliche, but it's just part of the journey. So if you're, if you're making a commitment to move city, because you've got this plan that's going to you're going to learn more and your company, or you're going to experience different cultures, or whatever it might be, like, that's just one part of the journey. And if you get fixated on this is going to be the app like this is gonna, it's gonna be what makes me happy, then you're gonna be fucking wrong.
Yeah. I even think about like Seth Godin. You know, where he lives just outside of New York. It's not like, in some ways, it could be far away. Like it could be you know, he's got a he's a train ride away, I guess from you know, being in Manhattan was so thing. But if you can do it, if your work is writing, or your work is doing a podcast, or like, how many times does geography actually play a factor in what we do? I wonder.
Oregon, Oregon, it's big. Or can it's big, because environment is such a sign such an impact on mental health. And I think you can make it
make it just shoot is cough I'd ever heard.
It looks awful. Don't just
make it a bigger deal than it needs to Vail than it is. Yeah, I think it's, you know, like you can, you can hack, where you leave being influential on how you feel about you die and what you're doing and
the internet now, like, if it's PayPal, if it's the connection of PayPal, and you can like, I remember when I started my business, and I was in the suburbs, I would have like Skype up and I like at the end of the day, I'd look. And I would like say goodbye to my might who's also freelancing. And it was like a seven hour Skype call, we'll just have a
phone call. So that but the thing is, you could do all of this. But I think the benefit of being in a room with a bunch of people shaking hands, exchanging working on projects together. And then like, I mean, you've put in the hard work, you've been to New York, you've spent time with these people. And so there is an element, you have to have some connection. And so we're talking about, you know, the, the grey haired the, you know, the grey, the grey tanned bloke woman in Nusa who runs every morning, but has built some fucking huge business now lives their perfect life. Like, I don't know, these lives. They were taught because I've seen hate for them, right? They're just these tan rich people who have worked really hard and now they just chill. And so do you think you want that? Like I actually think unlike the idea of working on stuff that's still interesting to me. Yeah, retirement is really a thing that I strive for. Yeah, I just do more of what I like doing which is this and so then it's the howdy is that a reverse engineering I just constantly
seek to be learning like just you know, it's not work I call it work if you want but it's just constantly like learning about a new topic like I know I would get obsessed with Gaurav with the facts like agriculture about Yeah, so
I actually use as I said, How many times I hold it or do I press it? How
many times do you reckon you can actually do before it explodes? Oh,
why would it like a video with was making
it would go everywhere though. A death is in the garage. Good. Yeah,
we're talking about a soda sir I'm exploding it's not like we don't want to go there. This is very very dangerous.
Well that was the what I'm gonna watch after this the the kid who took the red wine and carbonated so funny.
Anything other than water and he can try to carbon act is that true? No. What do you mean to put in there What are you going to carbonate milk bro?
No, you get the whole this packs you can get different liquids?
No no, but they aren't they just water look like the library flavour. Yeah, it's cold. You I'm saying. So the texture of wine is not water.
You know, Jesus turned water into wine.
When I mentioned Jesus, I know.
I'm just saying it's a different and you find out 97
right this what are the liquids outside of water? Can I put into a soda spend too long to kind of refine it? Can I put other liquids in my soda? acceptable liquids?
Sorry, just trying
to experiment that was a good
orange juice drinking soda stream some water and put it in and dilute your honours juice? Yeah,
it'd be nice to put water in. Otherwise it voids your warranty.
Oh, winner Friday.
perfect life. I've got a guy.
It's a daily talk show, guys. Thanks for coming on. When are you gonna start your podcast? Mikey?
is it happening soon?
Yeah, it's it's one of the bucket list. We got
50 episodes coming up. Is it next week? Next week Episode 50. long and the short. Yes.
Check it out on Apple podcast. Otherwise we're sitting my guys. See ya.