Father's Day With Tommy's Dad

Tim: The Daily Talk Show.

Josh: It's The Daily Talk Show, episode 442.

Tommy: It's Father's Day and I've got my old man in the studio, Timbo. Timbo Jacket. How you going, mate?

Tim: Very well, very well.

Josh: It's also, uh, Tommy's birthday.

Tim: Oh yeah, yes.

Josh: Not to take away from Father's Day.

Tommy: Well, it's landed on a good day, double whammy for me. So, uh, yeah, happy Father's Day, old boy.

Tim: Happy birthday. Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Josh: It's always been the case.

Tommy: No, no, so Father's Day falls on the first Sunday me in September every year, and it's happened a couple of times, but I wasn't a father last time it happened, but now I am. So the attention's on me, Dad.

Tim: I mean, you get a little bit, but if there's one thing that I'm obsolete—

Tommy: if there's one thing you've taught me, Dad, it's that I don't need to give you a present over there. Is this true? Is it? I mean, am I reading the play right?

Tim: No, no, look, I think after 30-odd years, I think you realise that that's the case. Yeah, Dad doesn't give a shit about presents.

Josh: Is it because of the reaction that you— what have you given your dad over the years?

Tommy: I cannot remember.

Tim: He gave me— the boys have given me cards that they've made up at school. I've probably still got those home in the drawer at home. You know, I keep everything that they give me.

Tommy: I've bought you a coffee table book before, something around surfing. I bought you DVDs on surfing. Yeah, that shows how good my memory was.

Josh: DVDs, a few VHS tapes as well.

Tim: I could do with a few of those now just to brush up on things.

Tommy: Jesus. Anyway, thanks for coming on the show, Dad.

Tim: That's a pleasure.

Josh: Does it change now that you're being a grandparent? What are these times like nowadays for you? Father's Day?

Tim: Uh, probably same as they were. No, look, really, Father's Day, uh, well, look, I appreciate that now I've got boys who have actually become fathers, and that's lovely to see. I think that's, that's probably the most important thing, not so much about me or my, um, reaction to Father's Day, but seeing the boys actually become fathers and, uh, and, and their role now is, uh as a parent, which is fantastic. And of course enjoying their children, which is even, you know, just as good.

Tommy: One of my favourite things, and I remember as a kid asking you, was, oh, tell me about the olden days. I mean, it wasn't even— that was just like if Bodhi said that to me now, tell me about the olden days when I was growing up. Was Father's Day around? Has that been the thing forever?

Tim: Oh yeah, it has.

Tommy: Yeah, because Valentine's Day wasn't When did Valentine's Day come into existence, Mr. 97? Because your, your dad, your father Roy, my grandpa, lived to 100. And I used to say this, I don't know if it's true. He was born on Valentine's Day. And so is Bodhi, my son. Grandfather reincarnated, some say, some others don't. But Valentine's Day wasn't his— was only invented within his lifetime. But Father's Day, not so. It was been around forever.

Tim: Well, it's probably a marketing tool too. I mean, you know, Father's Day, Valentine's Day. Father's Day was sort was a more traditional, went back a lot longer, I think. But then it became a, you know, the retail people picked it up and thought, well, we'll run with this and, you know, milk it for whatever we can get. And that sort of became popular.

Tommy: So, I mean, for people that don't like giving presents or receiving them, it's a good thing to rest on. Nah, it's bullshit marketing crap, you know.

Tim: Well, that's what I used to tell you. That's what I used to tell you.

Josh: I'm not buying into that bullcrap. Do you do anything for Valentine's Day?

Tim: Do you do Valentine's? Yeah. Oh God, no. No, no, Valentine's Day never entered our head, really. I don't think it's—

Josh: you're a romantic guy, do you think?

Tim: Oh yes, I mean, uh, 40 years later, I've got to be done something right. I guess to be still there.

Tommy: So can we get couch mic happening? Yeah, because my mum's in the building too.

Josh: Yeah, this is— we need to get some clarification on all of this. Yeah, but how are you a romantic guy? What do you, what do you do?

Tim: No, I'm not a romantic guy. No, no, I'm more of a sort of, you know, get on, get, get on with life. And life's been pretty full-on for us really over the years. We've had businesses to run, we've had boys to bring up, we've had, you know, school fees to pay and things like that. Not that it's not part of it, but I think it's sort of— and our philosophy is a little bit different to, to perhaps a lot of people. I think, you know, you look at these shows today and these people romantically carrying on, and then 12 months later they're divorced, or you don't have a bachelor. I think he's talking about—

Josh: I was thinking exactly Do you watch The Bachelor?

Tim: No.

Tommy: What was funny is I looked at this girl's Instagram last night, Married at First Sight contestant.

Josh: Is it a contestant?

Tommy: I know this is, it seems like a weird word, but she posted a photo of her in Bali and she was with this girl and she said, you know, one year on, me and my bestie gone through a divorce. She was talking about fucking Married at First Sight. Yeah, she's talking about another contestant, whatever you call them. On this show. It's like it's been a big year for us. No, mate, you're on a reality TV show. You've got 150,000 followers now.

Josh: It's a bit different. But I guess all of those followers are following along on that somewhat fake journey.

Tommy: Oh, they're buying into it. So anyway, it's all, it's all made up. Mr. 97, did you find out Valentine's Day, uh, or Father's Day?

Mason: Was it Valentine's Day?

Tommy: Yeah, I wanted Valentine's Day to start with. Are you struggling over there?

Josh: It was definitely started by the Hallmark company, I believe. That, I mean, that's the excuse that everyone uses. Selling more cars.

Tommy: And what does the Google search tell you?

Mason: Well, there's a bunch of— no, there's literally a bunch of them at like 400 AD.

Tommy: Oh, okay.

Mason: So I'm just— I mean, it was—

Tommy: I found, I found when it first appeared in Scandinavia, which was 1960. You got a microphone in your hand.

Joanne: Saint Valentine. I think that's— he's the one.

Tommy: If you hold it just up to your face.

Joanne: Saint Valentine.

Tommy: No, we heard it first time.

Josh: And so was that— and so was— did Saint Valentine— who is Saint Valentine?

Joanne: Well, I don't really know, but he must have had something to do with love. Yeah, you would think.

Tommy: But so maybe it was then applied later as a thing and classed as a day.

Joanne: And Rudolph Valentino.

Tommy: Yeah. What about him?

Joanne: Wasn't he a film star that was really romantic? And Rudolph Valentino.

Tommy: Sounds like a porn star to me.

Josh: Well, it sounds like Rudolph, it could have something to do with the Christmas stuff as well.

Tommy: Oh, yeah.

Josh: I mean, Christmas has— I never got the— like my nana and pa, Catholics, always went to church and all that sort of thing. Christmas at your house, would you guys put the, you know, you'd put the ceramic things that you'd have like Jesus and stuff?

Tommy: Oh yeah, we had that.

Tim: Yeah, Joe was big into that. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Joanne: The nativity.

Tim: I married a Catholic.

Josh: Yeah.

Tim: After the Pope sort of consented to me marrying her, then it was full on with all the Catholic stuff that she had in the house.

Josh: She'd bring out and And so you were, were you, um, saying you married a Catholic? Does that, is it fair to say that you're not, you don't really see yourself as someone that's Catholic, or?

Tim: I'm not Catholic, no, no, no, no, not at all.

Tommy: We, um, you got married within 3 months of meeting Mum, which Mum told us a story. I'm sure it'd be a completely different storey to what you'd say, but, um, no, I want to bring it back to Dad, to your dad, seeing it is Father's Day. Your dad lived to 100, which is a fucking amazing innings. And growing up, what was— so your dad, because I've said a couple of times, uh, Grandpa, he was in the prisoner of war camp. He was captured in there for 2 years, 3 and a half years, 3 and a half years, and then came out. Like, if he didn't survive that, I wouldn't be here, you wouldn't be here. What was that like growing up with a dad that went to war?

Tim: Well, in those days it was, um, thinking back as a kid, I think we were more interested in, oh, did you shoot anyone, or did you know what happened?

Tommy: First question, first question I would have asked.

Josh: Yeah, yeah.

Tommy: What guns you have?

Tim: So I mean, growing, it didn't really mean a lot. I mean, Australia was a, was sort of growing then. It was, uh, it was going through some, some good times that people had sort of finally got over the war. Things were starting to change. There was more money in the economy. People were doing different things, experimenting and doing different things with all sorts of things, business and what have you. And so it didn't have a great deal of impact other than we were sort of fascinated by, you know, the war and all that sort of thing.

Tommy: Did you like— did you ask him about like questions I'd want to know? Uh, what was it like in the prisoner of war camp?

Tim: Oh yes, yes. Yeah, well, I knew a little bit about that because he told us, but they were they were reluctant. People of his, you know, era were reluctant really to make anything big about it. He never did. He, he, he's— look, he said, I got on with life. When in the prisoner of war camp, he said, I watched what I did. I didn't, um, I didn't make trouble, uh, because if you made trouble, then you, you were likely to get, as he said, a bit of a beating. Uh, so he was a smart guy. He was one of these guys who— he told— what he told me about the war was interesting. He said, I work— he's very methodical. He could add up a list of figures before you could even put it in your calculator, you know, he was that good.

Josh: Didn't really pass down necessarily.

Tim: What happened to me? Well, you two, obviously you've got some issues about that, but he could do that. But he used to— he was very methodical about the way in which he did things, and he said I would work out— they had a toothbrush and that sort of thing— he'd work out how many times he could use that toothbrush before it'd become obsolete. And so he'd, he used to use these sort of little games and things to play to sort of keep his mind active. And, um, a very interesting thing about him, I, I learned from his 90th birthday that, uh, that one of his friends who was in the camp with him said he— my father was in charge of distribution of all the food. And they said he would never ever take anything himself before he made sure all the other guys had got what they needed to eat. And because he was in charge of it, he'd go into the storeroom and get whatever he liked. But, um, he was that sort of guy. He was that sort of, you know, um, just very thoughtful.

Tommy: Careful hitting this table.

Tim: Oh, right. Okay. So they did talk about, um, they used to go out they must have done some sort of concerts because they used to go out to the villages and maybe put on some sort of concert and they had a drum. And he reckons that the local dog used to disappear every so often and they'd grab the dog, they'd kill it or stun it.

Tommy: As in the prisoners?

Tim: Yeah, yeah. He's putting him in the drum and in the bass drum and take it back to the camp and then cut it up and use it to eat. Because all they were eating basically— and I said to him, I said, he's not— when I made a speech about him at the 90th birthday. I said, you know, you've come through life— he very rarely had anything wrong with him. He might have had the odd cold or sniffle. He had a couple of knee operations and that sort of thing, but really, basically, he never had anything wrong with him. And I said, the best thing that you ever had was your diet in the prisoner of war camp, which was rice and weevils.

Tommy: Yeah, weevils, weevils, maggots.

Tim: What they get into the rice, maggots, like the little weevils who get into rice, into grain.

Josh: And then you can eat— can you actually eat them?

Tim: Well, we're starting to think about eating, uh, eating all the protein in the protein, yeah, crickets and things. So Tim Ferriss would be on it, but it's a lean— it was a scavenger dog to make it a little bit more interesting.

Tommy: So you should see a photo of him, like he was bone skinny.

Tim: Well, he lost— he lost— he was— when he went in there, he was the old days, 13 and a half stone, and he came out half his body weight.

Tommy: 6 and a half, keep missing out 7, 6 and a half stone.

Josh: And so what do you remember? What did he talk about in regards to actually him getting captured and things like that?

Tim: Oh well, we talked, he talked, look, he was a little bit flippant. He said, look, what happened was they went to the Middle East.

Tommy: It was trauma, to be honest.

Tim: Yeah, they went to the Middle East to fight the, what they call the Vichy French, who were the resistance fighters who sided with the Germans. So they went there and they, it didn't take long to sort of knock over them in that sense because they weren't well equipped.

Josh: So is this World War II?

Tim: This is World War II.

Josh: And we're in the Middle East.

Tim: Where is he? Well, he went to the Middle East first.

Josh: Egypt.

Tommy: Cairo. Did he go to Cairo?

Tim: Well, he actually, because his father had contacts in their business over there, which is in the flour industry, he had some interesting times. He told me on their leave when they were over there, he used to make contact with the people who his father did business with, and they'd take him out into the desert where they had these Bedouin tents, beautiful tents set up as a regular— that was like their holiday place. Carpets on the floor, the whole thing. And he was just treated to, uh, Bedouins—

Tommy: the, the—

Tim: well, when I say Bedouin tents, but big tents that they use for, for—

Tommy: but is Bedouin the people that, like, living on the land or out in the—

Tim: yeah, the Bedouins are sort of nomadic, semi-nomadic people.

Tommy: I saw some when I was in, um, uh, Egypt— not Egypt, uh, near Jerusalem when we went, uh, Tel Aviv.

Tim: Tel Aviv, yeah. Okay, yeah, yeah.

Tommy: I think they were called— there was like, you could see little, um, congregations of a whole bunch of people that were living on the land.

Tim: Yeah, yeah.

Josh: And so was he picked to go to war? Like, what—

Tim: how did—

Josh: was it?

Tim: No, no, in those days he, he volunteered. He was a— he was an officer, but he was a little bit older when he went to war. And so, um, he went over there and, and he's— he was in charge of what they call a machine gun battalion. So that was sort of a fighting battalion. And I used to ask him, did you kill anyone? And he would never answer that question because I don't think he want— he really wanted to even think about that at all. Anyway, so he went to the Middle East. Then they were brought back to stop the Japanese and they were offloaded at Java to protect. But they didn't— what they didn't realise is that how big the Japanese forces were and they were just overrunning. I think the British made a bad calculation about it all. And anyway, within 2 weeks he was they were told to surrender.

Josh: How many soldiers were there, do you know?

Tim: Oh, it's probably a couple hundred, 200 or 300. And they were marched into what was basically— he said, we're marching into pigpens. And I said, that's where your camp— so they had to set up their camp and get them organized. And that's the good thing about Australians is, is that they, they came from a fairly tough background. A lot of these guys were, you know, come from— came from rural backgrounds. They're innovative, they're able to adapt. And that's the thing that kept the Australians going well. Whereas he said that some of the other forces tended not to work together as a group. And so you had, you had combinations of the British, and there were the local Dutch people who had colonised the area and that sort of thing. And anyone who was resistant to the Japanese were put into these camps.

Tommy: What's amazing is that they actually aren't just killing. They're just like, you guys have been captured, now you're over here.

Josh: What is the process if your dad is like, uh, behind a machine gun?

Tommy: Put it down.

Josh: Yeah, like, are they, are they running in and knocking you out?

Tim: Did he talk about— Oh, you mean the actual, the actual takeover? No, they were— they, they would have been, um, they would have been told through the, the, um, the head of their battalions and things there that I think they were probably told by their own forces, don't resist. You know, we can't do anything about— we can't get in there to help you. You're better off to surrender. Now, they didn't know. I guess they didn't know then how brutal the Japanese could be. And some of those guys in that camp then went off to the Burma Railroad and so forth. He was one of the lucky ones who didn't get picked to go there because most of those guys didn't come back.

Tommy: Ceasefires. You know, it's a weird thing that's holding up a flag, then they just— there's, there's like photos of when having tea, like, uh, enemies having tea together. What do you— Mum wanted to say something. She's put her hand up. She's at school. Yes, Joanne, you may speak.

Joanne: I just didn't want to leave this, this important, um, subject without saying what Roy said when he was, um, herded into the pig pen.

Tim: Oh yes, if she would remember this. Yes, he said, 'Lord, I am in your hands.' So he was quite a religious person in his own way, but he never, he never put that on us. I mean, he, he— I remember him taking me to, um, to a Sunday school. We lived in East Ivanhoe and we had a fantastic life there. We lived by the river and it was a fantastic place to be before we moved to Mount Eliza, which was even better because it was very rural. But anyway, he took me to Sunday school one day and at this church, and I just couldn't handle it. It just wasn't for me. He was a Methodist, and the Methodists were fairly dour. They were fairly sort of straightforward sort of people.

Joanne: They had their methods.

Tommy: Yeah, methods.

Tim: That's our methods. My best days of Sunday school. And Tommy, I was— sorry. And I was there. When I was seeing, um, Michael a while ago, we— my Sunday school there, we would hop out at about, um, after the first break and go down the street and spend the money that we should have put in the donation bowl on lollies. A few lollies.

Tommy: So what was, what was your grandfather— because I think you're quite an affectionate person. I feel like he was of the era that And I feel like you've even pushed beyond that. Like, I've met some people that's fathers, dads that are your age, similar time, aren't as connected emotionally, or, you know, they weren't doing yoga, they weren't doing these things. Do you think— I mean, and I could imagine your father, like, did you hug?

Tim: Were you— he was reserved. He was always there, but he was reserved.

Tommy: He's ready for a fight. Like, do you think it was—

Tim: no, he was— look, the war, I don't believe, affected him really like some men who have been affected mentally. A lot of men were just after the war, they couldn't function. He, he was never like that, but he was always a stalwart. You could always rely on him. He was that sort of guy. And so regardless of the fact of whether he hugged you or not, I don't, I don't believe that ever interfered with our relationship. But he was of that school. You've got to go back to, you know, he was— that's just back in the sort of early '50s and '60s when I grew up, and, um, they were different people.

Tommy: He was born in 1908 or '10?

Tim: 1909.

Tommy: 1909.

Tim: Died in 2009. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So by the time he got to there, you know, he was quite an older guy. He, he had me quite late in life. He, in fact, in the war, just as a matter of interest, um, He married before he went to the war and his first wife left him in the war when he was a prisoner. When he was a prisoner. And this happened to quite a few soldiers. You know, their wife didn't know whether they were coming back, whether they were going to die. And if these women were not that, you know, they'd married perhaps before he went to the war. They hadn't built a big relationship and all of a sudden they were going—

Josh: they had to go to the war and Did families know what was going on? Like, did your dad's family know, okay, he's been taken, or—

Tim: Oh yes, they would have known that. Yeah, they had that sort of communication, but they— what they didn't know was how long would it be? How long would the war go? Would he survive? Would he die of, you know, a disease? Would he be shot?

Tommy: That's the thing, you know, think about— think about, we can get some little antibiotics for a toothache. You get a toothache there, turns into infection, dead.

Tim: Yeah, well, look at these guys. I mean, you know, horrific. They all had dysentery.

Josh: What's that?

Tim: Well, that's where you, you can't control your bowels and you just, you know, permanently diarrhea, permanent diarrhea. You had, um, beriberi, other, other tropical diseases, ulcers that wouldn't heal. And they all, uh, they, you know, they had to use— I remember that guy, uh, Weary Dunlop, who is a very prominent he was a surgeon, a very prominent figure in the war. He used to have to operate using a sharpened spoon to dig out all the ulcerated flesh.

Josh: It's full on, isn't it?

Tim: Yeah, absolutely. And they had, as you say, no antibiotics. They had to treat it with what they could. And so these guys were sick. They were put under pressure to work hard, to do things for the Japanese. The Japanese didn't respect them. They didn't like them because the Jap— what the Japanese thought was basically that If they would rather commit harakiri themselves, kill themselves, than be kept as a prisoner.

Josh: Yeah. So, they thought it was almost cowardly.

Tim: Yeah, it was sort of like, yes, exactly. You were, you, yes, you were, you were a coward. You should, you should use the sword and kill yourself.

Tommy: Oh, yeah.

Josh: Which is interesting because like what you were saying before, Tommy, of that idea of you sort of hope that the prisoner of war, that, oh, you know, having tea with the enemy and you're just sort of sticking around until it all gets settled. Was it a really negative experience? Like, did your dad come back with negative feelings towards—

Tim: No, he didn't, because he actually was in business with Japanese after the war. He traded. They had a division that he had in the business, which was sort of seeds and grains. He bought them in bulk, you know, all sorts of seeds and grains all over the world. So he had to deal with the Japanese. Never saw him once, ever, ever say anything disparaging about a Japanese person. Um, did he drink? No, no, not a great deal, no.

Tommy: So Dad doesn't drink? I mean, I've seen you probably had a few beers in your life. Yeah, yeah.

Tim: Well, I don't, don't need— don't— I mean, look, I started off working in an advertising agency. Now, you know, if you— in the '70s, that was where the drinkers were. Yeah, you know, they loved a long lunch, and so did the clients.

Josh: When was cocaine big? Was that—

Tim: would that have been, uh, '60s?

Josh: I can imagine the advertising industry.

Tim: Well, it was there. I never saw it. I never saw it.

Tommy: But you've never smoked a cigarette either?

Tim: No, no, I did, uh, no, I, I once—

Josh: I, um, it's all coming.

Tim: I tried to impress my older sister's girlfriend who I quite liked, and we went down the beach and got some Alpines. And, uh, I think I had an Alpine and I felt so bloody awful that I never, never did it again. My mother used to smoke enough for all of us. She smoked Camel non-filter.

Tommy: Oh yeah, and drank.

Tim: And drank, yeah. So that was— not that that stopped me from drinking, but it just impressed upon me that I didn't need to do that because I saw the consequences of what it could do to someone.

Josh: What did you— what have you noticed being someone who doesn't drink? An Australian culture that's all about going out, going to the pub.

Tommy: Hand me a beer, son.

Tim: Yeah, uh, over the period of time, I guess What you've got to do as a younger person is to say— and look, I had my share of drinks and that sort of thing, but I never got to a point where I was out of control, and I always knew when to stop. And really at the point where, okay, so I gave it up because probably once I got out of advertising and I was into landscaping and so forth, you know, what was that transition like?

Josh: What, what made you go from the advertising?

Tim: Well, the advertising The advertising was— I used to sit in the meetings with the clients and look outside and think, what the fuck am I doing here? You know, it was just— and the products that we were making so much song and dance about, okay, look, they were genuine products. So General Electric, we had Cheese Bretons.

Josh: Um, what is that? What is this?

Tim: Cheese Bretons was a big American company that made, uh, sorry, uh, products for women like makeup and, uh shampoo. And but there was a point there where I remember sitting in because we're account service, so we were looking after our clients. And so we'd sit in a boardroom with the, with the creative guys and the media guys and so forth. And I remember the director said to me one day, we're looking at a product to make for men's shampoo. And it was— I couldn't believe it. It was a two-part thing like a Jaffa. There was a brown conditioner and there was an orange shampoo, and you'd shake the thing together., and then you'd use it. So it's a shampoo conditioner. Great. And he said to me, and what do you use, uh, Tim, what do you use as your shampoo? And I said, um, oh, I just use soap. And I think, I think then I knew that my days were numbered in advertising. So anyway, the transition for me was I, um, spent, I don't know, 5, 6 years. I went overseas, came back. They gave me 6 months leave of absence, which was really good. They didn't They didn't want to lose because I said I'm going to leave. And they said, no, look, take your leave, go overseas. So I went with one of the other guys in the agency.

Josh: Were you quite senior at that point?

Tim: No, but I was in account service. I was being paid very well for my age.

Josh: Account services, is that like an account manager type of thing?

Tim: Yeah. If you want accounting sec or that sort of thing. I had account director above me. And so you're responsible for the planning of the whole client strategy. And that meant you had to brief the creative people, you had to brief the media people, you had to get production done and all that sort of thing.

Josh: So anyway, because obviously in 2019 people are creating decks on the computer and all that sort of thing, you know, PowerPoint presentations, 30-page slides. What are you doing? Are you just getting paper and drawing stuff out?

Tim: Oh no, no, no. Well, we had typewriters.

Tommy: Tell us about the old days.

Tim: Well, they were typewriters. Yeah. Yeah, of course. So we had, you know, we used the technology of the day really, which was, you know, felt pen. And then the creative guys drew things, the art directors, you know, that was all storyboards and things like this. Then if they decided they'd go for a commercial, the commercial was developed and then you'd go to the film companies and then you go and shoot the commercial and that sort of thing.

Tommy: And it was Carrie pigeon, right?

Tim: Sent your brief to that.

Josh: Well, how much were you guys looking at the overseas market? Because obviously globalisation with the internet is happening in a big way. Were you constantly, say, with General Electric or whatever, are you just executing on what their strategy in the US was?

Tim: Well, this is, this is the thing you had to battle against, because the client would come to you from General Electric and say, look, here's the latest from America, have a look at this, I think it's really good. And you'd look at it and say, this is not for the— that's my mate— this is, this is not for the Australian market, this is not going to work for Australia. Because we're a different market, we've got different idiosyncrasies, we've got different ways of doing things. So you had to then turn it round and, and of course you kept a bit of it and you tried to then modify it to suit the Australian market.

Tommy: So before we get into some landscaping stuff, Mr. 97, would you be able to quickly flick me over 4 different images, uh, on a Slack message of plants? You can't have the name in it You just need to send me the photos of plants, but you'll know the name.

Mason: Okay.

Tommy: And so then I'm going to give Dad a bit of a quiz because he's our plant expert.

Josh: Horticulturalist.

Tim: So just to digress from landscape, from the advertising, I went to— I got out of it and I went and I bought— we started a little business with one of the guys in the art department.

Josh: Did you go on your trip or no?

Tim: I went on trip.

Josh: Where'd you go?

Tim: Oh, I went to all of Europe and then back through Asia, Bali, and that sort of thing. It was good.

Josh: What— I mean, in 2019, a lot of Instagram posts, you're sharing it and all that sort of thing. You're going away for how long?

Tim: 5—

Josh: did you go away for 5 months or how long?

Tim: 6 months.

Josh: 6 months?

Tim: Yeah.

Josh: Are you, um, like, do you contact your family? Do you take— are you taking photos?

Tim: Post-Restaurant, you had a, you had a post, you posted a letter. Yeah. So the communication— I mean, I don't think I ever spoke to anyone via the phone.

Tommy: Um, uh, some great photos from then. There's a photo of you in Bali with an ex-girlfriend or something.

Tim: Uh, no, that was when I was— that was when I went to New Caledonia. I went to— I went to New Caledonia with, with a girl from, uh, yoga who was studying French over there, and she had, uh, and two of her girlfriends and myself and her, we went to camp on one of the outer islands, which was interesting. But anyway, so I got out of advertising, I went into an art, little art graphic studio in Greville Street, Prahran. Yeah. And we had a bric-a-brac shop there because the guy in the art studio was importing, um, ship's artefacts from, uh, London, England, where he— because he was an Englishman. And so we had— we combined that with the shop as a shop downstairs and the graphic studio upstairs.

Josh: That's cool.

Tim: So I remember—

Tommy: what, do I remember that shop, or am I—

Tim: no, well, well and truly, that's 1974.

Josh: No, I'm still in your balls.

Tommy: No, but, um, you had another shop that was in Elston.

Tim: No, no, that was in— that— okay, so that was the landscaping business. We had, we had an office in, uh, Hawthorn Road. I remember that, with Damien.

Tommy: Yeah, I actually remember that.

Tim: Yeah, Damien and I, and we shared the office space, and, uh, we had a, a product store downstairs where we had all different types of paving and different lights and different artefacts that people— we could show clients as well as selling some of them. So that was another little adventure that I—

Tommy: isn't it funny to think about if in, you know, 30 years' time we look back at saying about what this is?

Tim: Yeah.

Tommy: As, oh, you know, we had tried that thing. We had a bit of— had the studio on the middle level and it's up top we had the production space. It's so funny how you look back on things.

Josh: It sounds romantic though, like when you talk about it, it sounds like there's something so nice about— I I like the idea of the travelling and being disconnected and just sort of moving around.

Tommy: But it's a different time.

Josh: You can't do that anymore. You literally cannot do that.

Tommy: What was your biggest thought then? So, for the time of today would be we're connected, we're FaceTime, we're away. We feel like we're actually at home, but we're away.

Josh: TripAdvisor.

Tommy: And so, what was the thought? Can you remember back to what was on your mind then? What were you—

Tim: Probably what we're going to eat at night. Yeah, we look for—

Josh: I can relate.

Tim: We used to look for the places that would give you the 4-course meal, and if we get a 5-course meal, that was even better.

Josh: So how would you find them? Would you just go around and look for restaurants?

Tim: You could walk around these little villages and see— you'd see the things on the shops, you know, they'd be advertising a little restaurant that you could get a 4-course meal for whatever it was, I don't know, 2 bucks or something like this. And, oh, there's a 5-course meal for 2.50. So we'd sort of weigh it up and what was in the meal and and that sort of thing. And, um, so, you know, all those sorts of things. I mean, you— and then you had a look around the places and you got a bit bored. We went down to Morocco with this crazy Canadian guy, actually, and he's— well, he told us a storey as we're going down. We, we met him in Spain and he said, oh, I'm going down there, do you want to come? So we said yeah. So the two of us went down, and on the way over, he's— and we're driving through Morocco And this is the days when they'd— all of a sudden the police had appeared. If you didn't stop, they'd pull these big spikes across the road and stop your van. Anyway, he told us, oh yeah, I was travelling with this guy and, uh, and all of a sudden, uh, he's telling me about this and that, and he pulled into a service station. He said, I went to grab something and came back and he was gone. And, uh, so we stopped with this guy and we went and got something, came back. And he was gone with all their gear in the, in the car.

Joanne: Oh no.

Tim: But he just pulled in around the corner to the car park.

Josh: You're a great story.

Tim: So, you know, we thought, oh shit, déjà vu, it's going to happen to us. He was the guy.

Tommy: He was just trolling you.

Tim: Yeah. So we travelled with him for a bit. That was fun. And then we drove from Morocco back up through Spain, right up to Paris. And I can remember, um, I can remember pulling up outside the New Zealand embassy at night, and we're standing at the back of the van cleaning our teeth while all these sort of people walking, walking past, sort of Parisians and that sort of thing. So it was pretty, pretty bohemian type of existence in terms of—

Tommy: I think that what you're articulating, Josh, is you go away now, and it's also how I feel about the connectivity through my phone. So it's like I, I'm absorbed by my thinking around this device and what else is happening. Well, was there any— was it— what was the—

Tim: well, you weren't because you didn't have it. But what you've got today is that you're dictated to by your connection. You, you, you can't allow yourself to be independent. It's just a fact of life.

Josh: Yeah.

Tim: Or you can if you think about it and you're aware of it. But, you know, everyone's rushing for the phone, seeing what the next thing is happening, who's connecting them. Where are they? We weren't, we weren't connected like that. We were, we made our own fun there. If we, if we want, if something happened, we'd have to go to an embassy, we'd have to then go via them back home, or, you know, so it was a really a different, it was a different world altogether.

Josh: What was your relationship with money and how much cash did you have to bring back then to—

Tim: Oh yeah, you look, you looked after your money and you, you were able to go and get your traveller's check. You had your traveller's cheques and things. You were pretty, you know, you had to watch what you had and all that sort of thing. But did you have to carry more cash Because, well, you had your traveller's cheques and that sort of thing, which you'd convert into whatever currency was, uh, the country you were in.

Tommy: I mean, it's different now. You use Uber overseas. You got your Uber connected.

Josh: Just use your Apple Watch or whatever. It's easy.

Tim: Yeah.

Josh: I mean, did you have a specific amount where you're like, okay, for 6 months I've got—

Tim: yeah, I think it cost me, uh, we'll do the comparison of Joshua. It cost me about $1,800 including airfare.

Josh: Okay. Wow.

Tim: For my whole trip, for 6 months.

Josh: It beats my 50 grand.

Tim: So you can see that I wasn't a big spender, but, uh, I mean, that's Cappadocia for you.

Josh: I mean, flights, I mean, that's insane. So, uh, what year was this? 1974. 1974. So it's like you're on like a Qantas flight or something. Yeah, everyone's smoking in the plane, I'm guessing.

Tim: Well, yes, but in those days the actual exchange of air was better than today because they were exchanging the air What happens today is because they've cut down on the amount of air exchange outside, so you're actually breathing in, uh, you know, the air that was— they're not changing the air.

Josh: Everyone's just farting now and we're just breathing it all in.

Tim: Well, that's what they call the fart flies, aren't they?

Tommy: Was, um, was Roy a storyteller? I mean, we all are.

Tim: Yeah, if you got him going about things, he would, because they had an interesting life. He had an interesting life as a family, and storeys of— in fact, I had, I just, and I'll give it to you to read, a folder that what that his cousin had written about the family and their history on the Murray River and the rivers there where they were. Because they were flour mills, they came out from Cornwall in the 18— mid-1800s, and they were flour mills. So they would set up these mills, not him, but his forebears would have been his grandfathers. That's right, his grandfathers. They would set up the mills They would then— his father, I remember him talking about his father going up the Murray on the paddle steamers and he would go up to all the inland areas and buy wheat. Then he would get that wheat transported down by big bullet trains down to the wharf on the rivers. This is when the rivers were big and running. They would then put all the wheat on the paddle steamers and then they would transport it down to where their flour mill was. Offload it there, and then they would make the flour from, from the, uh, from the wheat or the, or the barley or the oats, whatever it might be.

Josh: When you were a kid, what were you wanting to do? What did you— you see all these things happening, what was the aspiration?

Tim: Um, I, I was more an outdoors person. I wanted to, I wanted to have farms. But, uh, and a friend and I used to fantasise about having farms, goat farms, pig farms. We used to go out to his father's property, a huge, huge property in New South Wales, and, uh We'd, we'd, we'd do the odd little bit of kangaroo shooting, but then we'd— must admit, we'd take those skins and tan them and that sort of thing. And but look, in the end, and because I grew up where I did, say, Mount Eliza, which was— the people who know it today, you wouldn't recognise it when I was there. It was one store, two petrol pumps, and I think a chemist, and that's all there was. And that was just bushland. Now, so you were near the beach and you were near the bush, and so it was great, and you were sort of 3/4 an hour from the city.

Josh: And, and so the, the plants, the love of plants, when did that become a thing?

Tim: I think it probably came through my mother, who was a, who was a gardener, and she loved gardens, and she, uh, she loved— we used to, we moved up and down one street in Mount Eliza about 5 times. She bought bought properties and that sort of thing. I think my father got a bit frustrated, but she made money out of them, so that was all right. But she used to love gardening, and so we had the first property we had down there was about an acre, and it had the most amazing setup. It had an old loft on it, was a house that was— the walls were 300mm thick. It was an old farmhouse, but it was right in the middle of Mount Eliza, and it was a beautiful property.

Josh: What are those walls made out of?

Tim: Oh, they would have been masonry walls, brick and, you know, render and that sort of thing. Yeah.

Tommy: What was the industry in Manilisa? Like, what was the, you know, well, it was a—

Tim: Manilisa then was basically an area for people who would have worked on the peninsula and lived there. It was quite an affluent area, and it was for holiday people who had holiday houses down there. You know, you had— it was amazing. There was the multimillionaires and there was the sort of, you know, I guess people who didn't have a lot of money.

Tommy: But mainly now there's only people.

Tim: Yeah, but it was, it was quite a well-to-do sort of area.

Josh: So, um, and so you saw your mum with the plants. What was she into? What did she love? The roses? You said— I feel like you're a native guy.

Tim: Yeah, yeah, look, I'm more, um, I'm not so much a floral type person.

Josh: And, uh, and, uh, outside of your personality, obviously.

Tim: Well, that's right. I mean, a friend of mine who's a landscape architect, we're swapping texts last night and he said he sent me a photograph of his magnolia Oh, just which he's very proud of with the flowers.

Josh: Are we speaking in code right now?

Tim: And he sent your magnolia back though. I know, I know. And I said, and I sent back a text saying, I don't think it's very, there's not many flowers on that. And what was the other text? I've got it there anyway. And in the end he said, I said, you know, something about it. And he said, oh, I like to frock up. So I said, well, you know, you go for it if that's what you want.

Tommy: All right, I've got a few plants that I just want to hit you with. So I've started the very first one you sent through.

Josh: Can I just describe what it looks like?

Tommy: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Josh: So it's like a very— it's a hipster indoor plant. Yeah, I think it's a darker green and it sort of flaps down a little bit. I mean, yeah, I mean, what is it?

Mason: You're gonna show it?

Josh: It looks like a teardrop.

Tommy: Oh yeah, Josh is just butchering the visuals of it. But what's that, mate? What do you got? What do you reckon that is? He's just pinched him.

Tim: Oh, that's the, um, That's the devil's ivy, I think.

Josh: That's Mr. 97's favourite plant, the devil's ivy.

Tim: Yeah.

Tommy: All right, I'll just go through this second one. Oh yeah, I reckon you'll get this. What's this one? It's in a white pot.

Tim: Yeah, that's a chlorophytum.

Josh: Chlorophytum.

Mason: Yep.

Tommy: Yeah, yeah.

Mason: Or spider plant.

Tommy: Yeah, remember, Dad will say the proper name.

Mason: Yeah, I've got it in brackets just in case.

Tim: Oh, not always, but I mean.

Tommy: All right, what's this one?

Tim: Uh, very similar to the devil's tongue. Oh, we might have got it. Oh, it's poinsettia family, but, um, it's—

Josh: oh God, don't need no cousin.

Tim: Prompt me.

Tommy: Start first letter.

Mason: With first letter of the actual plant name, or— yeah, Flamingo. Sorry, Flamingo.

Tommy: Oh, that's like the nickname.

Tim: No, no, the actual.

Mason: Okay, anthurium.

Tim: Anthurium. Anthurium. We got him. We can't remember. We got him.

Tommy: I reckon he'll get this. This is safe. Number 4. What's this?

Tim: That is, uh, Dracaena.

Mason: Yep.

Tommy: Oh, and can we do one more? Final one. Here we go.

Josh: Really enjoyed just growing a little, um, begins with P.

Tim: Um, oh, it's all these indoor plants. Give me something decent. Um, Peperomia or something. Is that No, it's not a pepperomia, is it?

Mason: Yeah, no, that's— It's a Pilea pepper— Yeah, something like that.

Josh: What's the prejudice towards indoor plants? You don't like indoor plants?

Tim: Oh, I do like indoor plants. Yeah. Yeah. But I'm just sorry. The woman with a hand up over there.

Josh: Yes, Joanne.

Tommy: Mother.

Joanne: Yes. Yes. He's great to go for a visit to the Botanic Gardens, knows all the plants.

Tommy: I mean, I can do the same. I'm just reading the little signs.

Josh: What's your favourite walk? In Australia? Where do you like to go walking? Want to see some nice plants and just chill out?

Tommy: I know, I know.

Tim: Well, you know, I didn't ask you.

Tommy: No, but I know what he, he told me about it the other week down at Cape Shanahan.

Josh: Should we just not have him on and just get your plants?

Tim: You're talking about Cape— No, no, I'm not that one. Oh, well, the Cranbourne Botanic Gardens is lovely, but I look—

Josh: They're all native, very red, isn't it? I feel like—

Tim: Well, that, that part of it, yeah. Um, look, I enjoy walking through the Botanic Gardens, to be honest. I mean, I can't— I think it's very inspiring. I spent a lot of time there when studying at Burnley when I got into landscaping to learn plants and just their habits and so forth. I love the botanical garden.

Josh: You mean habits?

Tim: Well, how they grow, what size they end up by being. What, you know, a lot of— unfortunately, a lot of landscapers today don't understand plants and how they grow and what they do and what they'll achieve. And they end up by putting a whole row of something in that's going to look absolutely shit house in a short space of time, and even worse when they get bigger. So they don't understand it. So you've got to understand what plants will do and how they grow, how you can use them in a garden and so forth. So, so in terms of favourite walks, I don't— look, I don't have favorite. I love Tasmania.

Josh: Yeah, Tassie's beautiful.

Tim: Yeah, there's parts of Tassie that we've been to.

Tommy: Um, favourite kid?

Tim: Favorite who?

Tommy: Favorite kid?

Joanne: Kid?

Tim: Your Oh, I'd have to be Bodhi, wouldn't I?

Josh: On the plant thing, bonsais. Ever got into bonsai?

Tim: Yeah, look, I like bonsai, but I just don't have the time to really do it. I appreciate the work that's gone into them and I really like looking at them. And I love the way Japanese work with their plant material and their architecture and so forth. But I do like them. Yes, I do. I do appreciate them. Yes.

Tommy: Did one of your businesses you have bonsais at, like, did you have a bunch of bonsais on display?

Tim: You might have had them at there. I was, uh, it could have been at that, uh, the Frontier Trading Company with Damien.

Tommy: I can remember them some.

Josh: Yeah, feels like bonsais can go either way. It can be really nice or a little bit bogan if you don't do it right.

Tim: Well, exactly. And there's a There's some really— there's a nice bonsai grower on Church Street in Hawthorn. He's got a lovely nursery there.

Josh: And if I was to buy one, say, for the office?

Tommy: Yeah, too much commitment for you.

Josh: Is it though? Like, if they set it up, if they've made it all small and stuff, they've done the work in—

Tim: well, you have to continue it. You can't just let it go. So that means it turns into a big fuck-off tree upstairs. What you do is you say, do you provide a service where if I bring it back every 12 months or whatever is required, that you will maintain it, look after it, you know, like you will trim the roots and you will, um, uh, you will, um, work the branches and so forth. You could do that.

Josh: That could be fun.

Tommy: Uh, just to finish off, uh, what are some of the lies that you remember telling me as a kid? Because I think all fathers have some.

Tim: Really?

Tommy: Yeah, so there it is.

Mason: There it is.

Tim: Case in point, uh, lies. Uh, look, probably I don't, uh, what's some of the lies?

Tommy: Uh, that bamboo, don't get it in your finger because it'll grow.

Tim: Oh, those sorts of lies. Yeah, yeah.

Josh: What were you thinking?

Tim: I'm not your dad. Yeah, well, that probably, that probably came from where the, you know, I used to, you know, the Japanese used to put people on racks and let the bamboo grow up through their body.

Tommy: Is that true?

Tim: Well, it grew. Bamboo grow.

Josh: Is it true?

Tommy: I'm just feeling like you lied to me my whole life.

Tim: No. Yeah, I probably told you things that I didn't want you to do, knowing that you're probably going to do them anyway.

Tommy: I've got another one. I've got another one. We talked about it earlier this week on the show. Colin Kaye, one of your best friends, uh, remember when he used to come over and he was a magician? That's bloody what I knew of him when it comes to White Fredo. He would have this coin, next minute gone. I'd be looking around the house and then I'd find it getting warmer, warmer, and I'd pull up this thing and there's a coin under there, the same coin. I need to know right now because I've never asked you what actually happened. Did Colin call ahead and tell you to put the coin somewhere, or did he come in and put the coin somewhere and then come over?

Tim: Oh, there's a little bit of cooperation there going on. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Tell us what would happen. Oh, look, I, I think that probably I did, uh, I did plant the, plant the coin there.

Tommy: Yeah, yeah.

Josh: But so, Colin, did he lie? Yeah. Did he have to call you and say, hey, can you do this?

Tim: Like, oh no, he— when he's coming, he came up for dinner quite regularly. He was a regular guest. Uh, he, he was a bachelor, and, uh, that started the magic. We first started surfing together. That's how long we sort of went back to when I was 12, 13. And so he used to come over for dinner quite regularly at my mother's place when, when, uh, because he had a house in Mount Eliza, a holiday house with his parents. And so he'd come across and have a meal with us. And so that sort of started the ball rolling. And then of course we're married, and then he came across too. Now he's married, we don't see a lot as much of him, but, um, so he's not pulling his old magic. But I do remember probably the biggest lie I have told you, Tommy, is that, uh, here we go. Is that, uh, Melbourne's going to win a Premiership. Oh yeah, yeah, I can't think of a bigger lie actually.

Tommy: But the whole family bloody vying for Melbourne. No, but so he did call ahead and get you to hide the coin. That's serious.

Tim: He did.

Joanne: No, I reckon Colin was— he was on as soon as he walked in, he would hide it.

Tim: Ah yeah, he would. And the other lie that—

Joanne: well, that was a routine, you know. Yeah, magic tricks for the boys.

Tim: Biggest lie was that but, uh, he'd say, 'But that dog's farted again.' We need a dog around here, don't we? Robbie, you know, we blame Robbie.

Tommy: What's your favourite thing about being a dad?

Tim: Uh, I think the favourite thing is just, um, well, enjoying the time together with you guys. It was just fantastic. And, uh, just watching her grow up and, and just seeing you achieve things, like little things, like your sense of balance and being able to do things and just growing. So being a dad is, is all about the relationship you have with, with your children, for sure. Yeah. And, and of course my beautiful wife. Oh yeah, thank you. Yeah, but just the family thing, I think it's, um, that, that's very important, you know. That's, uh, really is, uh a thing that sort of gives you a great deal of stimulation.

Josh: When you see Tommy and Bodhi together, what does it make you think?

Tim: Oh, I think that's great. Well, what you see is perhaps— I like to think that some of the things that are imparted upon Tommy is imparted upon he and the way in which he, he relates to Bodhi. So I think that's all, uh, that's all good really.

Josh: Yeah.

Tim: Yeah.

Josh: Um, when you become a dad, do you feel that you're— you're talking about the changing in friendships Was that a big part of becoming a parent, is the relationships around you?

Tim: Uh, well, of course you're more focused on your family, uh, so you do find that, uh, that, uh, the time that you've got with your friends changes and that sort of thing happens. But that's a natural thing if it's done correctly, then, or, you know, the right way, people accept it. And you— otherwise, if they don't, well, they don't, you know. But your priorities are different when you've got children.

Tommy: Did you think you wanted to be a dad?

Tim: No, I didn't actually. I didn't really, uh, it didn't really enter my head. I must admit though, what I did think was, um, and this came from the fact that my parents split up when my father was 70, and, uh, but they never divorced. My father always looked after my mother. My mother moved to Melbourne from Mount Eliza. My father stayed in Mount Eliza. He had a relationship eventually with another woman that lasted 30 years. But I never really thought about wanting to be a father. I never sort of thought that. But that naturally came when we married. And but I did think the thing I did think was I do want one, one shot at this, you know. And I guess I looked at that with my father, possibly the fact that he wife left in the war. He had marriage to my mother that, um, they lasted quite a while but ended. Um, I thought, well, you know, I only want one shot at it, and that's, that's how you make it your best shot.

Josh: Mm-hmm.

Tommy: So good. I can hear you stroking the microphone over there. Just have to, you know, a lot of housekeeping.

Josh: It feels like we could chat for ages.

Tommy: I know, we have to get you back on, Dad. We've got to go to a Father's Day thing right now.

Tim: That's right.

Josh: Yeah, thanks for coming on. Happy Father's Day.

Tim: Thank you very much.

Josh: Yeah, it's The Daily Talk Show. Hi@thedailytalkshow.com is the email address. If you like plants, maybe send us through a photo of a plant.

Tommy: Keep the game going.

Josh: Next time Timbo's on, maybe we could do a weekly segment. Yeah, get Timbo to look at a plant.

Tommy: If you've got a garden and you don't have any idea what this plant, specific plant is. A lot of people move into a house and go, what is that thing?

Josh: Oh, definitely.

Tommy: This guy knows.

Josh: I think, I think that would be— I could imagine a regular segment every weekend, banter, get you up on FaceTime. What's happening in the plant market? What's a good deal? Chris and Mari's Plant Farm, were you a fan or no?

Tim: No, no, no, no. And I'm not a Don Burke.

Josh: Oh really? Yeah, well, I mean, that's a popular one now.

Tim: And I'm not a Vasili Vasily.

Josh: Oh really? No, you don't like Vasily?

Tim: I do. I mean, I'm not— but I'm— what I say, I'm not that sort of character, but I appreciate— look, he's got a great knowledge and yeah, he's good.

Josh: Vasily started on Channel 31, didn't he?

Tommy: Yeah, he did.

Josh: Oh yeah, yeah, the one I would always get real up in the microphone. Who's the other— who's the ABC one with the big—

Tim: oh, that's Costa.

Tommy: Costa, yeah, yeah, he's a big classic plant guy.

Josh: Yeah, there's a big network, isn't there? I mean, do you buy any magazines? Any plant magazines?

Tim: I've got books on plants.

Josh: Okay.

Tim: Yeah, yeah, I've got— but I don't regularly buy plant magazines.

Josh: Trash, trash. It's a daily talk show. If you enjoyed the show, send a screen grab, put it on Instagram. Otherwise, we'll see you on Monday. Catch ya. See you guys.