Quality & Perfectionism

Josh: The Daily Talk Show. It's The Daily Talk Show, episode 432.

Tommy: What's happening, guys? What's going on?

Josh: You're getting a haircut.

Tommy: Uh, well, yesterday, um, I got in the car and my wife was watching one of the videos, the video that I put out yesterday from our time in Geelong where I just cut together a little vlog style thing, and she said, you cut your hair. And you know, like, my wife has been a supporter of me. She's just completed today every single episode ever recorded by the Daily Talk Show. That's a fucking unbelievable effort.

Josh: That is really good.

Tommy: I wasn't supportive in her endeavours to do this. I told her not to do it. I said, please don't.

Josh: Surely it can't be good for one's mental health.

Tommy: Exactly, that's what I mean.

Josh: What did she say? Just every day has she got rebuttal of shit that you've said?

Tommy: She's, she's, um, closed the loop on a lot of things. She's discovered when we even came up with close the loop, you were saying it and then we're working out, is it closed, closed the loop or is it close the loop?

Josh: Very meta.

Tommy: So she's— what's interesting is she's actually informed me of all the things I've forgotten about of like the stages of building the show. And I just want to say grateful. This is— we've got the most listeners we've ever had at this moment. And we're also the most tired and busy that we've ever been.

Josh: Worst shows, biggest audience. That's how it works.

Tommy: Well, that's how you feel anyway. So that's what—

Josh: that's right. Feelings aren't facts.

Tommy: Feelings aren't facts, so.

Josh: But maybe, but doesn't mean it is good.

Tommy: But maybe. Yeah. So anyway, I think I will cut my hair.

Josh: Okay.

Tommy: I wanted to save it for the show.

Josh: You were quite upset about it when Amy said, Tommy's going to cut his hair. Cause she called me.

Tommy: We were on loudspeaker in the car and then she just blurts out that. I was like, hang on.

Josh: That was 3 days worth of content for you for the show.

Tommy: Exactly.

Josh: You don't have it anymore.

Tommy: Now we can't.

Josh: That's right.

Tommy: Anyway, so I will. Another little life update. I thought I'd just throw out a few things. See if any of them stick.

Josh: You do yours, I'll do mine.

Unknown: Yeah.

Tommy: Little life update. The Gronks upstairs of the apartment where I'm at. I mean, I'm moving out, but randomly I just have gone. These are the ones with the cat and the ones that had loud sex and the ones that put rubbish in the fucking, you know, recycling in the rubbish. So annoying. Yeah, I know. That got you.

Unknown: Yeah.

Tommy: So they're gone and they just vanished. Like, Amy's like, yeah, they're gone. We never saw them. They just— So we've been building storeys out. There's been a blowup in the relationship.

Josh: What's your favourite story?

Tommy: Been a blowup in the relationship.

Josh: Well, they were just dating for sex. And then it's not sustainable. And also, neither is their recycling habits.

Tommy: I like that. I like that. And then they weren't paying their rent and so they got evicted.

Josh: I mean, that's an obvious one, isn't it?

Tommy: Yeah, but all the other stuff, it's a real concoction.

Josh: Was there any note on the front of it?

Tommy: Nah, they were one of those couples or those people that don't cheque their mailbox and it's just full.

Josh: Yeah. It's almost like people that have time to have sex every night are people who don't cheque the mail. Like from an admin point of view, they're fucked.

Tommy: Just forget life. Like, I'll deal with it when the debt collectors rock up to the door, right? That kind of vibe.

Josh: They definitely have huge amounts of credit card debt.

Tommy: I've actually, like, impulsive in Shepparton. I know it's extremely illegal to open mail here in Australia that is not delivered to you.

Josh: Federal offense.

Tommy: Yeah, look, feds come after me, but you can only, you can only, you can only fucking write return to sender and take it to the mailbox 60 times before you're like, ah, they don't get the fuck.

Josh: Oh, you did? You do it 60 times?

Tommy: Dude, we did it so many times. And then I was like, this dude's fucked. And I look in there, there's like hundreds and hundreds of dollars of fines. This poor bugger has just probably— he's just— I just hope my son, I hope I can just help him understand that, you know, to take personal responsibility.

Josh: Yeah. Anyway, well, I've got a MyGov message at the moment, and safe to say it's nothing though.

Tommy: Yeah, safe to say.

Josh: Well, my theory is if I don't open the mygov message, they'll be like, it's like Instagram DMs. They'll be like, he hasn't read it yet.

Tommy: Your partner Bri is in the room shaking her head.

Josh: Yeah, mate, you see these jokes don't land as well when the admin queen's in the building.

Tommy: Amy's reconciled her differences with the agent that she had a bit of a tanty with, blow up with.

Josh: Yeah, I actually, when Amy came in that night, I did feel bad because I think that I was pushing you a little bit on the steamed carpet.

Tommy: You just like to give pushback on most things though. It's— I get it.

Josh: But do you also think that it's pretty standard? Like, it's a bit of pushback that I'd give to everyone, not just you.

Tommy: Yeah, uh, I mean, we've blurred the line between life and, uh, and our podcast.

Josh: Are you doing a life update now?

Tommy: So yeah, I mean, this is why it just— it is my life and it's your life.

Josh: I'd give the exact same pushback. I think that it would have— I was thinking about it, I was like, ah, Should I have just— because should I just given Tommy a break? But I was like, I feel like it would have been more boring if I just pretended like it's like, yeah, fuck them.

Tommy: Yeah. Oh, I don't— I mean, I don't want you to— if you don't agree with something I'm saying, you think I'm saying something—

Josh: But you were actually right. You don't legally have to get steamed, your carpet steamed on exit.

Tommy: Yeah. Which to your point is what's the right thing? And there's the right and there's the legal and The thing that's legal isn't always the morally right thing to do.

Josh: So, I get that. Well, you can't complain about having carpet that's not that clean at a new place if you are the exact same bronc to say, "Absolutely not. I don't have to do it now. This is clean enough." Yeah.

Tommy: Yeah, exactly. What else?

Josh: Have you noticed that steam cleaning, it actually smells like the colour purple?

Tommy: Depends on who you go with.

Josh: I mean, have you ever done it in your life? Yeah. Okay.

Tommy: Yeah, I've seen it. Ate a protein cookie.

Unknown: It's not really that.

Tommy: Good. I bumped into just like—

Josh: See Protein Paul?

Tommy: No, I didn't see Protein Paul. I saw, um, I can't come up with another name, but another guy that worked at a protein store that had lots of muscles. But I was at a coffee shop locally, bumped into an old school friend of mine.

Josh: What coffee shop?

Tommy: AU79, great one around the corner. Lucy, girl I was in high school with from, you know, year 7, 8, 9, then I left. But I had this moment, you would have hated it. I haven't seen her in 10 years, maybe, maybe less, but a long time. And next minute I'm over there saying hello. She's got headphones on, she was on the phone, I could see, and I didn't want to be rude. Next minute I've got a headphone in, she's got one in. We're now talking to Josh, who was also in high school with us. Really? He's over—

Josh: you were sharing?

Tommy: I was sharing her headphones and I'm like, ah, Josh, AirPods? Not AirPods.

Josh: Earphones, like corded earphones.

Tommy: Corded earphones.

Mason: Things.

Tommy: And so we're really close. It was a funny situation, but I love Lucy. Like, we've got such great memories. I do, of my time at school with her. And so we're just— but it was this funny thing where we're on a three-way call in a coffee shop.

Josh: School days, three-way calls. '97, did you ever do three-way calls? Probably not.

Mason: No.

Tommy: You just used— Oh, that's so fascinating.

Josh: They probably had multi-person, like, FaceTimes by the time he was 18.

Tommy: Man, I did breakups with girls on three-way call and my mate was on the other line and she didn't know. That's so fucked up. I mean, isn't it?

Josh: At least it's disgusting. Yeah, '97's gone, oh, with the idea of calling.

Tommy: Yeah, dude, there was some other shit that went down, just like, you know, um, trying to out people. I mean, kids can be so nasty that, you know, like, hey, what do you think of this person?

Josh: That literally happened, uh, to you, Rob, uh, Robert Curran. Called me, but it was coming from Lachlan Clydesdale's phone number. And I answered the call. I'm like, hello, this is Josh. And it's just Rob. And then within a few seconds he's like, so what do you think of Lachlan?

Tommy: Did you know?

Josh: Was detected? I had— I thought I was a real boss because I had a caller ID.

Tommy: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Josh: And so I knew about this and I hung up and they called back. And I told Mum what happened and she picked up the phone and said, if you want to be Josh's friend, be his friend. Otherwise, stop calling.

Tommy: It's a fair point. It's a fair point, Lynn.

Josh: And so anyway, but I did have, when I was a kid, I had Skype and it would do like not only no caller ID, it would be like an overseas number. It was a great, great way of pranking.

Tommy: PK, who you met, one of my brother's great friends, one of my mates, he worked for, this was years ago, Gary Vee at the moment is banging on about text message marketing.

Josh: More than you're banging on about Gary Vee?

Tommy: I mean, pretty close. But what he says about it is it's the open rate of email in 1999. If you had a big email list, it was like fucking huge open rates, 90% or whatever. But he's saying that text message makes sense. You cheque your texts. You at least give it—

Josh: Markets haven't ruined text messages.

Tommy: They haven't yet. They haven't yet. Email's been completely ruined and text message not so much. But when I had my stripping agency, yes, I had a stripping agency. We used the service Impact Data. See if it's still around, Mr. 97.

Josh: I'm sure a business name called Impact Data would be around here.

Tommy: I don't know if it is. Yeah, it is.

Mason: Yeah, it is.

Tommy: What do they do?

Mason: Marketing software for businesses.

Tommy: Yeah. So they had like a backend system, but we could, we could do mass text message out. And so we'd do it for the ladies nights. Like, I thought, I mean, if I had my head on straight and I had a nice business, I probably, you probably could have made something with it back then. But maybe not. Maybe that now's the time to be doing that shit because it's, I don't know, something's changed.

Josh: Some of the food places, like, I think that Menu Log must pass over your phone number.

Tommy: So you must press.

Josh: I must be confirming something. I'm sure they're not breaking any sort of privacy law, but they But Third Wave BBQ in Port Melbourne, there's a, there's also like a pizza place. They all just text me now. I mean, it's always when I'm hungry though. I was like, hey Josh, tonight only 25% off. And I almost, yeah, I treat it as like this serendipitous moment of like, oh, better order it.

Tommy: I don't know if my mate was breaking the rules, but I mean, you work in a business, you take advantage of the technology at hand. But he was texting my brother from God.

Josh: Oh yeah, because you can spoof the number.

Tommy: So you can spoof the number and rather than it coming up as a mobile number, Mr. 97, it can come up as a name, God. So I mean, myGov, they're doing it same. They're probably using impact data.

Josh: I'm sure it's good. Yeah, it's probably come a long way. I think spoofing.

Tommy: There's something else happening at the moment that.

Josh: Another life update. Open up your notes.

Tommy: Not mine, but I feel like I'm not silly enough to do this, or I, or that's my thinking right now. Everyone posting this thing on Instagram over the last few days that is like this long paragraph of text.

Josh: Funny thing is I've seen it but I haven't actually read it.

Tommy: So this is Dana White. I saw, um, Wonder Woman, uh, Gal— Gal—

Mason: Gal Gadot.

Tommy: Yeah, Gal Gadot, she posted, and a bunch of high, high-tiered celebs are doing it. And I'm just thinking, are these celebs actually taking the piss and this is all a practical joke? Because You've got to know that this is probably nothing.

Josh: So read it.

Tommy: Read it. Read it.

Josh: Yeah, it's saying, uh, don't forget tomorrow starts the new Instagram rule where they can use your photos. Don't forget the deadline today. And they basically goes on to say Instagram does not have my permission to share photos or messages. Yeah, it's pretty outrageous.

Tommy: And so the thinking behind it, I've seen these kind of things before. You, you put something out It's basically you signing something saying you're taking permission. These are fucking—

Josh: Yeah, just people writing their own contracts and just being like, you read this. Yeah, go to the bottom of it, dude, and read this.

Tommy: Like, um, the— You looking through my fucking photos?

Josh: Oh, is that not okay?

Tommy: Oh, it's just scanning through.

Josh: You do a lot of screen grabs.

Tommy: Only recently.

Josh: I had a moment the, uh—

Mason: Doesn't post them though.

Tommy: Yeah, because I don't have access.

Josh: Oh yeah. True. But I, um, no, I had a moment the other day where I was thinking about Google Photos. And, uh, there's been many times over the years where I'll screen grab someone, especially if they're having a mental breakdown on Instagram. You've got to screen grab that shit.

Tommy: I've even been on the receiving end of a few, and I really appreciate it.

Josh: Yeah, like being screen grabbed?

Tommy: No, uh, no, no, no, you should be something.

Josh: Yes.

Tommy: And the best is when I say, did you see that? And he's just like screen grabbing.

Josh: And they can get the sort of choose your own adventure. If you unfollow someone, I'll know about it and I will create a story.

Tommy: Stacy Jones is still not following.

Josh: She's still not following you on Instagram. That's okay. I don't take that as a big deal. I think that she probably, she's probably just like, you know what, being on The Ready Go with you, part of her life that she's moved on. She's doing other cool shit.

Tommy: Sure.

Josh: No comment. But you know, it still hurts you.

Tommy: But it doesn't hurt me, it hurts you more.

Josh: But I was thinking— She follows me. But I have a feeling that when I get annoyed, every time I bring it up, there's like a 40% chance that she's just going to get sick of it and she's going to unfollow me. And that's going to be on you.

Tommy: Anyway, it's on you for jumping in.

Josh: I understand that, but you keep bringing it up. No, what I was thinking about was Google Photos. It does the facial recognition. Yep.

Tommy: You've got about 40,000 photos in yours.

Josh: Yeah. Puts everyone's photos together. I was thinking, uh, say if I screen grabbed a bunch of shit on you and then, uh, for some reason I shared the Google Photos of just a few, because you can share a specific album and say, hey, this person, hey, uh, Dil, yeah, I want you to get all the photos from your trip, photos of you. Yeah, I'm going to, uh, uh, share any photo that I've taken of you. And then before you know it you go inside, why are there all these screen grabs? Because of the profile pic, that would say.

Tommy: Yeah, yeah, yeah. But you think of that, I mean, this is the thing. Yesterday we were talking about that, of like incriminating emails and attaching, you know, someone that you didn't want to an email. It's like living that life. Yeah, living like— I don't think what you're doing is that serious. It's a screenshot. You could build a storey out from it. It's not you saying this person is an absolute f-wit, you know. So, but living that life is is dangerous.

Josh: Yeah, I remember seeing a, uh, giving my computer to like a repair shop and then going through and seeing last day modified. They'd gone through all my files.

Tommy: I told you about my friend who worked for a big company and he was the tech guy for it, and the boss was bringing in his computer from home and saying, uh, there's something wrong with it. And my mate had to go through it, had to work out what was wrong, found porn of the young of his daughter.

Josh: What do you mean?

Tommy: His daughter?

Josh: His daughter had made a porno?

Tommy: Yeah, like serious. Like serious.

Unknown: Yeah, it's not great.

Tommy: And like, and he's a lovely guy. He's like, dude, I fucking opened that and I just, oh my God, I just had to, I just wiped, I just wiped.

Josh: Yeah, yeah.

Tommy: It's what, what, your computer's fucked?

Josh: Wiped. Like, that's so, like, just on fire in a corner. What happened to my computer? Craig, I'm just gonna pick up my computer.

Tommy: Mate, drill through hard drives. Delete, delete, delete.

Josh: I'm feeling a bit down.

Tommy: Yeah, I know. Uh, it's all right. I mean, um, I don't think you do. I mean, I could guess. Is it the lunch that Bree made you?

Josh: The fact that I had tuna and greens. Oh, it looked great. But don't throw, don't throw Bree under the bus. It was actually a really nice lunch.

Tommy: I'm throwing you under the bus because you're the asshole that Is annoyed at the—

Josh: No, I'm not annoyed. I'm just a bit— No, but I appreciate that Bri did it.

Tommy: But did I get it right? Is that the thing that you're— Oh my God, I was actually having a—

Josh: That was like, it is a— For a guy who sometimes self-medicates through food, it's like you just needed some chocolate. Yeah, tuna is like swallowing the pill that you don't want to take.

Tommy: Well, who's the person recently that couldn't swallow pills that was speaking?

Unknown: Trev.

Tommy: Trev. For Trev, yes. I can swallow a pill. You can swallow a pill.

Josh: What's up, Breeza?

Unknown: I was just saying, I also made you avocado toast.

Josh: That was actually delicious. That was really good.

Unknown: Mine's very fancy, and it was brown rice, greens, and tuna, and it was chilli tuna.

Josh: It was actually—

Tommy: if you've learned anything, lead with the negativity, Bree. Lead with it.

Unknown: And I also went out and I got you a mocha.

Josh: Thank you.

Unknown: Yeah, you're welcome.

Josh: From AU79. No, it was Yeah, Bree is very good. I actually love when Bree works from, from the office.

Tommy: I mean, it's the only time you really ate healthily.

Josh: Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was great to be able to have like something to eat for breakfast.

Tommy: We need, we need that meals, meals company to cater for the boys.

Josh: Oh, do you know what I saw around Friday? What's the big one?

Tommy: Uh, YouFood. Yeah, they're in stores. We, I think, you know, they do free shipping next day, free shipping. That's pretty good.

Josh: So you could order to literally— I was watching an ad, I was watching The Bachelor last night What a horrendous show that is. And yeah, there's the guys like he was literally like talking to me. He's like, I just thought about like, what am I going to eat tomorrow? And I just ordered now and it came in the morning. Yeah, I thought that was pretty cool.

Tommy: Great testimonial. Yeah.

Josh: Don't you think? Yeah.

Tommy: But I've— Food for Fitness. That's what I want to get on, get involved with. Just, I mean, it's just cut it out.

Josh: Cut it out.

Tommy: But I thought— I didn't think it was like I legitimately was taking the piss about the food.

Josh: No, I mean, I think that's part— definitely. Uh, part of it. Well, I just ate it. I didn't even finish it. 97 got it, uh, took it away from me.

Mason: I mean, you just left the plate there. It was about an hour and a half after you—

Josh: Yeah, got given it.

Tommy: I mean, should we, should we do a moment of gratitude? My mum always says to me, I love it when you boys do your gratitude moment.

Josh: We could do— We normally do it only on a Friday, but I'm happy to do it today.

Tommy: I mean, every— We do a show every single day, so it's like It's not like we have to wait to come back.

Josh: Yeah, I think gratitude is a good idea. I literally had a moment. What did I— You know, when something goes real, like I had a technical issue with a video earlier. It's just like, at least, at least no one's dead. I mean, that's like the—

Tommy: But when did you get to that? Did you get— Because you snowball into it. I think we all do it. Something happens, you can easily snowball into negativity and then it's everything. Everything that's affecting you, everything annoys you, the food, the people, Mason's hair, you know, the way it feels, the way it looks at you.

Josh: I actually like 97's hair.

Tommy: I love it too. I love it too. Tell us what your mum said about it recently.

Mason: Oh, she wants me to get it done again.

Josh: That's good. As in, is she not happy with the regrowth, or?

Mason: I mean, maybe, maybe a little bit.

Josh: What did she say? Anything about the regrowth?

Mason: No, she didn't mention the regrowth. She's like, oh, we're just gonna have to get it done again. You're gonna have to keep it. I really like it.

Josh: And that's nice.

Tommy: I mean, you don't pay to live there. I'm just saying, is she going to pay? Yeah, well, that's super expensive.

Josh: Yeah, you're not going to Joey Scandizzo's place to get it done.

Tommy: You can't. It's flying first class and then going—

Mason: just Bieber Hair Academy.

Unknown: Maybe we could.

Tommy: Maybe we could do that. The second follow-up is Mase trying it at like a, like a just here on Victoria Street. There's like a salon that's just— you probably won't understand. Like, you get it. There's a language barrier there. And so you gotta navigate that. But I mean, blonde hair, just take a photo of Bieber and you're good to go.

Josh: Hold it up.

Tommy: So anyway, but Mum loves it when we do.

Josh: We can do gratitude.

Tommy: Gratitude. Because I think it gets you out. Like, say if you're spiralling into negativity.

Josh: Me specifically?

Tommy: I think there's two things. So I was reflecting while walking to get a protein cookie on your negative spiral.

Unknown: Yeah.

Tommy: I was thinking—

Josh: Is that on the business?

Tommy: No, I didn't. Got it on mine.

Josh: Um, part of your $50 Allowance?

Tommy: Yeah, I get pocket money every fortnight, $50. Anyway, but then I look after the finances of the house.

Josh: So what do you normally use the $50? What would $50 go into fortnight?

Tommy: I took myself out for breakfast this week, $18, AU$79.

Josh: What'd you have?

Tommy: Scrambled eggs on toast, 2 coffees, good banter. Then what else? Protein cookie, I bought some bread, some other little bits and bobs. It's on food, that's all it is. Yeah, I mean, that's I've got nothing else to do other than work and that.

Josh: But anyway, so you can understand me from my tuna point of view. If all you've got is food, yeah, yeah, spirals. How do I stop spirals?

Tommy: Meditation has definitely— and I'm not talking about for me, I was thinking about when's the last time I got in the negative spiral, and I definitely think it's cut the life of them in half, or if not three-quarters. Yeah, definitely. It's— and, and so it's a way to get out of them. But I think the way to get it— it's a good one. You got out of it by saying, well, I went for a walk.

Josh: I went for a walk as well.

Tommy: Oh, did you? I didn't even see that.

Josh: Yeah, I went for a walk.

Tommy: You just snuck out.

Josh: Which, I mean, the hard thing is that when you say I'm going for a walk, everyone's like, oh, you okay? But it's like when you're in a negative headspace, yeah, um, you just, you just want to go for your walk.

Tommy: Uh, It's, um, my gratitude is that we are the busy— busiest we've ever been. Tired, enjoying it. I mean, we're energized. Like, we can't— you couldn't do this if you were suffering because we're doing so many shows. And so we love it. I am appreciative and grateful for— this is not the appreciative moment— I'm grateful for, uh, the fact that there is some momentum behind the show at the time that we're the most busiest. Because when, when it would feel hard and feel like a kick in the dick when you're putting in so much work and it's not paying off. And it has in the past, I think, felt like that. But it's nice when you are at like capacity of workload and things are great. It's like it's a moment to live, to sort of feel that gratitude because it's not always like that.

Josh: It's like the dip. Pete Shepherd's latest, Long and the Short of It.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: Talks about the dip.

Tommy: And what's he, what's he saying?

Josh: I guess the thing is, it's like, like the dip is just part of, part of this journey, I guess, to my point, which is we've had some good stuff and all that sort of thing. But I think the quicker that we're going, like we're going quite quick, more chances for dips. You have these amazing highs and then, you know.

Tommy: Do you think the dip, I mean, I've called your dip mental illness before?

Josh: Slightly depressed.

Tommy: I mean, I mean, it's a good way to— it's a good storey to tell if you have, if it helps you get out of it, because you're like, oh, I was just in a dip. I mean, or you have severe mental illness— not you, but someone out there. But do you think it is a lack— so the dip, right? What is it? It's— is it a lack of gratitude for the moment, or is it a, an energy that has been sucked out of you that you need to rebuild somehow? Is it a— is it burnout? What is the dip to you?

Josh: Uh, to me, not necessarily using the Seth Godin definition, which I wouldn't— I would be, uh, not as good at articulating.

Tommy: Can you pull it up?

Josh: Uh, but no, I think that the dip is, um, uh, feeling like a bit depleted and feeling like, um, uh, especially like you've reached— you may have had some great momentum and all that sort of thing, but there's a bit of a, a dip in, uh, energy. But also in— I also think it's connected with the external stuff as well. Like, I think that that's a thing. Like, it's, uh, if we think about when we are feeling good and, you know, having momentum, it's like when good stuff is happening to you.

Tommy: Um, yeah, I think you can feel good when stuff isn't happening to you too.

Josh: Yeah, yeah, exactly. I think that's part of it is it's like, can you get to a point where even when shit is hitting the fan, you just got a TikTok notification?

Tommy: Yeah, it's blowing up.

Josh: Uh, have you actually done a TikTok yet?

Tommy: You have done the best, Evan. Anyway, go on, go on.

Josh: Uh, yeah, no, I just, I think, um, uh, you should. It's like happiness, you got to work out how to be happy when everything's not perfect, because then when things are working really well, then you can actually enjoy it and be happy.

Tommy: That's a nice one.

Mason: Seth's description: the dip is the long, slow slog between starting and mastery. A long slog that's actually a shortcut because it gets you where you want to go faster than any other path.

Tommy: You can't blame it on his writing because he's one of the best writers in the world.

Josh: Okay, so gratitude-wise, I'm grateful for Bree. That she came today and she is when I am like this, even when I'm being an asshole. Well, not even an asshole. Just like people are nice. I can't take the— like when you're self-loathing or not feeling good, there is something that is friction. Like there is friction when people are nice.

Tommy: Is it the trait of an artist? I mean, I think everyone has self-loathing. I feel like it's an excuse.

Josh: Maybe I think that people use that as an excuse. But for me, it's like real, like the actual, the technical thing that was, which we ended up sorting out and all that sort of thing. But at the time it was like, I don't know if it is.

Tommy: But I mean, I've been there with exact, like with editing and things like that. Like I got myself to a point where I didn't think my videos were any good. Like I didn't like it. And so what is that? So is that truth or is that just a negative spiral? And so I think some people get stuck in that.

Josh: It's also like a standard, maybe like you have a certain standard and you communicate and all that stuff.

Tommy: It's the creative though, right? They're the one— like, I think high achievers are usually upskilling and then new norm, trying to do better, is still at this level, but they— but 2 weeks ago they were down here, or a month or a year.

Josh: And so perspective on these things, I think a part of it's like the storytelling, right? So it's like you charge a certain amount to someone and you've told a storey that I bring X, Y, and Z, and if you feel like you haven't delivered or whatever, then I think that then you're like, you can internalise it.

Tommy: Hard thing is though, that is the game. Yeah, that's the game. Well, that's literally anything great.

Josh: Not to mention Gary Vee again, but he was literally talking, he was literally talking the other day.

Tommy: I got you back on him.

Josh: It was literally talking the other day, which I thought was so counterintuitive. He's like, people are too obsessed with quality. It's like quality is a story, but which I think is interesting. If you're his client, if you're one of his clients, is that a good message? I don't know.

Tommy: Quality is a story. Um, then what is the thing? I think he would say the attention, because there is poor— so what is quality? Quality is subjective, right?

Josh: Whatever you think is quality. Like, for instance, us doing it, we want to do a podcast workshop the restriction at the moment is we want to make sure it's at a certain standard or a quality before we do it. There's a bunch of people who aren't doing a podcast today because they're like, I need it to be a certain quality. Whereas the funny thing is, maybe this is part of it. When we were doing the podcast at the beginning, there was no expectation. Like, we were just doing it. And so there was even times where it was like I was in Queensland or whatever and we couldn't get our technology to work. So I just did it over like a shitty phone call.

Unknown: That's right.

Josh: And it was like, because I felt like I wasn't attached to the story, but I think of quality. But I think there is an argument that maybe you don't need to. Like if you're a cinematographer, right? If that's all you do, like we are more generalist, we do heaps of stuff. But if you're a cinematographer and you pride yourself on being one of the best cinematographers in the world, if you film something and the exposure's fucked, Like, that's a, that's a pretty big deal because you've attached yourself to the craft and you haven't done the craft that well.

Tommy: I think some of my best wins have come, and I've, and I've, I find that there is a leap in having a business and, and doing great content that you, that you need to make to get out of this. And that thing is the naivety, the I don't have to do this for anyone other than myself, so if it all goes to shit, it doesn't really matter. You know, one of the things that we work with Barefoot Investor, and he's loved my personal content from the get-go. It's, it, I think, you know, it's a draw card to why he wants to work with me and you and us. And there is a—

Josh: in fairness, he doesn't want to work with me.

Tommy: Yeah, maybe just me, but, um, I get that. But I, when I go out and do these videos and I've had a few go viral and people have then contacted me, do what you did for you for us. It's like, it's actually next to impossible to do that other than if you ask me, just make a video and then come give it to me and I won't say anything. I'll give you all this money. That is the only way to do that because there is, you know, when I made that Obak Fishing video, I literally, I was tired. I didn't want to fucking do it. And I was like, I actually ended up having fun. I took 6 cameras. It kind of like was you know, a bit of fun. Like, I didn't put too much pressure on it.

Josh: I guess part of it is like you worked out what you valued in that moment.

Tommy: But I didn't care for anyone else and it didn't ride on anything.

Josh: But that's what I meant. So part of it is it's like you, your values were X, Y, and Z, right? Your values were, I want to do a great job of talking to camera and presenting this bit and then making sure I get really good angles. But exposure or sound or whatever it is might not necessarily— you might not necessarily be putting— like, that's just a way of serving your overall value. But there's— I guess that's what makes us individuals, right? Like, I think telling the person who is an absolute perfectionist and spends all their time, uh, you know, like, working out the exact angle of a shot so the horizon is exactly straight telling them, do it in post, telling them, I don't worry about that, like, or to do it in post. Yeah, or do it in post or whatever. Like, I think that, um, it makes a lot of rational sense, but it's also, if that's not in line with their values, if their value is in, uh, one of the considerations, one of the things I care about is that, that can— I think that's the difference between, uh, being a like a good artist or a great artist.

Tommy: Well, but then I also think about what— like, it's a— it's like fitness. It's like assigning a, a routine or an approach to somebody that is just cookie cutter. It's not designed for them. If that's not working for you, if you are a perfectionist and you still haven't found success for yourself in some metric maybe it's not the right approach because I get that, right? And I think I've become more of the, uh, making bigger promises and then they're external to myself. So they're actually— so in a business, someone pays us a lot of money, we're actually just laying down a series of promises that we will hit that then is why we get that cash.

Josh: Or, you know, yeah, but yeah, so we, we make up a promise and then we deliver on it, and that's what we pride ourselves on.

Tommy: And so over—

Josh: we almost over-deliver.

Tommy: Well, that's what you should—

Josh: what you're— a lot of people should do.

Tommy: Yeah, you should try and overdeliver so you're exceeding expectations. But the point being around the perfection thing, I don't like you.

Josh: I'm not— I guess I'm not debating perfectionism. I'm not necessarily. I think I've moved more and more away from perfectionism. Like, I don't say I'm a perfectionist. I'm just like, I think that like doing a podcast, doing all this sort of thing 7 days a week, You can't be a perfectionist. But I think that there is certain values that individuals have which we can't discredit because that's actually their unique experience and what makes them them. So, for instance, you might fumble on a bit presenting to camera, and that might be the thing that actually annoys you way more than a shot that's exposed incorrectly. And so the thing is, that's coming from your experiences, which is, I've been trained, I've, you know, I've gone to training for presenting, I've done this and that, and I just didn't— I haven't even said where we are. And so I think that that's an interesting part, like everyone's got their different thing.

Tommy: I've all— I've made it a practise to push back on my moments where I have had that.

Josh: But you're probably pushing back, but you already have this standard. So that's the thing we're doing.

Tommy: So I've built a standard and So, but then how does anyone get the information or the guidance or advice from somebody?

Josh: Well, I guess here's the question. What makes you, you? What makes me, me? What makes Dyl Dyl? What makes 97.97?

Tommy: So I was thinking about, you know, a lot of people say find your voice as a filmmaker, find your voice as an artist, whatever it be, you know, as a salesperson, whatever. What does that mean? I've always thought, how do you find your voice? It's like, I think it is how do you be you and be comfortable being you. That's been the thing for me, right? I've worked, I've— I know when I felt like it's been my flavour or my style is when I've been me and, and not judged myself extremely, or I felt comfortable. So being in front of camera, I felt like I've become myself more so when I have been able to not feel those feelings around how I look, how I feel, like how I sound. It's like, no, just connect with what I'm involved in or the moment.

Josh: So what is that? What do you think you get when you're creating something? What do you care about now?

Tommy: Um, so that little video yesterday that I made, I just, I enjoy, like, I think it's I think it's a strength. I've been through multiple things, right? I've kept, like, for client work, I care about how it looks, and I've got— I think I've got to a great standard. And, and so, but I'm— but I don't see myself trying to extend from a cinematography lens, you know, cinematography point of view, of trying to make it even more cinematic or epic. I feel like I've got that to a point, and I'm like You know, storeys are, you know, one that I focused on for a period of time. So I have been through versions where I'm like, it's only about storey and I've thrown video out. I've just captured what I can with what I've got.

Josh: And then I guess the interesting thing is if you deconstruct it, what is, what is storey and how are you telling story? Because part of it is it's like, um, a good cinematographer, you could argue you have to be good at, like, you've got the, the, uh, okay, I need to, um, expose correctly, I need to frame it right and all that sort of thing. Does that— that's a camera to me, that's a camera operator. A cinematographer is, uh, or maybe a filmmaker or whatever, is like, is by design taking the elements and making it a story.

Tommy: I think so.

Josh: Everything is like Like, storey is part of it.

Tommy: Not feeling out of my depth on every level is when I feel like I can be myself. And that's— so that's a progression that, that has taken years for me in terms of the actual technical side, the editing side, the being on camera side, the thinking about what would resonate with somebody, what is interesting to other people. I'm talking specifically for me. But I even think about when I was a young guy and being in conversation, just the sort of ego or like the thought about what I was, you know, thinking about how I am and how I'm, how I, you know, how I'm coming across or like, you know, wanting to be perfect or whatever it is.

Josh: Right.

Tommy: And so maybe. So how do you get there? Right. It's like going through, feeling all those things, like actually doing all of that.

Josh: You have to do it. I think like, yeah, you have to show up to get your work out, what your voice is.

Tommy: So that's the hard bit. When someone says find your voice, it's like, well, that's a huge—

Josh: So, but there is so much. So you have to constantly be doing that. And so then you're just switching up your values and saying, okay, this is what's important, this is what's important. And so then if part of the quality that you bring to something is that you write in a certain way, so you're a writer and it's like, uh, you know, you've got a certain standard If all of a sudden you say, oh, that's a doorbell. It is a doorbell. I'll go cheque that. If you, if all of a sudden you send out something to the world where you're like, I don't know if that's, that's not completely up to the standard. I wonder if that has the same effect on the audience side of things.

Tommy: Yeah. But then I also have tested that for myself personally, and I've always been blown away at what isn't picked up and how great some people think stuff is. And I'm like, uh, well, then it just challenges my thinking. For me personally, I'm just like, maybe that isn't— maybe I was too hard on myself. Yeah, because there's a reality of high achievers wanting to— are hard on themselves. And I think you are very fucking hard on yourself, dude. I think I am too. Yeah, yeah, there's nothing negative about— I'm just saying, it's just It is what it is.

Josh: Yeah, which is hard because you— but then it gets reinforced because people say, I love that you do X, Y, and Z. And you're like, okay, the reason why I do X, Y, and Z is because that's a standard and I'm hard on myself.

Tommy: Yeah, but again, the game, the game is you're up for playing and not, not everything being perfect and not things always going right.

Josh: And so what do you do if you fucked up?

Tommy: It's like the fitness thing. What is the fuck up? How bad is it? What's the level of it? Ask people around you that you trust. All these things. I think that's how you gauge it, right? I don't think just being in your head about it and you coming up with it is necessarily the right way. I think external, I think having, having another perspective, someone outside your bubble.

Josh: I think the other thing too is it's okay to feel shit sometimes. Yeah, I think that's, I think that's probably maybe part of it which can sometimes be missed is what makes things worse is, uh, people feeling bad about like, like, something's happened, I don't feel good about it, and the, the pressure around is feel better. Yeah, feel better, feel better, feel better.

Tommy: Something my wife Amy's taught me is put— can you chuck the mic to my wife?

Amy: Thank you.

Tommy: Um, remember how I used to not I don't want things—

Amy: it's almost like our son Bodhi, when he's like, well, you say, don't be emotional.

Tommy: We get upset, right? We get upset at him and he, Daddy happy. But I'm actually a bit upset. It's like he wants the instant back to the good feeling. And remember early days I used to, you'll be all right. Like, I'd want to get you out of it because it actually is making it so selfish because I'm feeling uncomfortable at that moment.

Josh: Was I like that?

Unknown: Yeah, you still are a bit, but you definitely—

Tommy: can you just take the mic off her again?

Unknown: But definitely more conscious. But I think you hated me being in pain, so you'd tell me that I wasn't, so that, yeah, you didn't have to deal, I guess, with me being hurt.

Josh: Which then makes it probably worse.

Tommy: And so it's not an antidote at all.

Josh: Part of it, I reckon, it's maybe it's a bit of this in the woke generation that we all are. If you're listening, you're probably like, you know what Josh needs to do is meditate, he needs to go for a walk, he needs to make sure— uh, 97's already told me that if I am 10% dehydrated, uh, what, 50% dehydrated?

Mason: Dehydrated, 2% dehydrated is 10% less performance.

Josh: I have less, 10% less physical performance. And so he was saying because I was so dehydrated yesterday that I was probably at 50%.

Tommy: I know, I know what you're saying because it's so hard, but I think I understand. The time of accepting this advice is— the time to give it is not the moment where they're like, fucking, oh, that's not the time. But the reality of the things like the 2%, you know, the meditate, like all these things actually get us out of pain faster. And so it's not the right time, I don't think, to ever— and that's why I wasn't saying to you up there, fucking pull your head in, mate, you're all right. Yeah, I was trying to say, look, dude, I think it's actually—

Josh: yeah, well, I think everyone's trying to like switch your perspective around, like, yeah, it's not that bad, it's all good, all that sort of thing.

Tommy: I don't know how positive it is to buy into your negativity.

Josh: I don't know if— no, no, I don't know if it's about— I wonder what the outcome is. Like, I wonder what the right way of doing it is.

Tommy: I could fuck with you. Like, if I was to jump, mate, nah.

Josh: No, well, the thing is that you— because the thing is that, say, if something— I am willing to do radical things as a way of being like, oh no, I fucked it. Like, I could have radical ownership. Like, if this was me solo, my business, my approach would be I would be like, you know what, based on this fuck-up, I am going to put me in a difficult position, whether it be financially or whatever it is, and say X, Y, and Z. Hey, I'm— but the thing is that you can't do that because it's like, oh, like, yeah, money that I'm throwing out or whatever if I'm too generous. My thing is like, you know what, like, if I fuck up, uh, the way that I can make myself feel better is being extremely generous. The problem is that generosity that I do now actually affects all of us. So if I started saying to every single person in the street, come and just sleep at our office, that's going to affect you as well.

Tommy: Never let anyone do that, by the way. Yeah, it's not in our lease. But then also sleeping on it. There's the moment, there's the heat of something, and then there's the take a breath. Well, that's a nice latrine ride. Like, let's have some dinner.

Josh: Yeah, it's such a— it's a— and I did that. I had a lunch. It just so happened to be tuna and rice and salad, which you probably would have slipped into a food coma if you had a bloody chimichanga.

Tommy: Yeah, yeah, it would have been all downhill. I'm— you see, you don't want a fat business partner.

Josh: You say one thing once and then it keeps coming up. Anyway, uh, it's a daily talk show. Hi@thedailytalkshow.com. Do we have any emails?

Tommy: Oh, I just want to thank also, um, Kylie Eddy. She sent us a lovely—

Josh: oh yeah, that was so nice—

Tommy: lovely card, and inside was a bunch of treats, and those treats are some tickets to go and see the Australian Dream. Which, just a quick one, Amy, remember that? So this is one, this is a pass, it's a card, it's an admit, you know.

Josh: Is it NFP? No free passes?

Tommy: I don't think they would. So I thought, I thought that this was one ticket. So one card, one ticket. Mr. 97 says, oh, oh my God, admit two. Yeah, you know, so he's 97, was very excited about it. He was so excited. And then it made me think about that time that, um, we went to the drive-in cinemas on one of our first dates, sweetheart. Remember what you did?

Unknown: Yeah, I bought 2 tickets, but the tickets were per car and we're going in the same car.

Josh: So did you end up going in 2 separate cars?

Tommy: Mate, I flew up to Sydney for this date and it was amazing, but I was so, I was so upset for her that she did that. You know when you're like Oh, like I felt the pain of the money that she'd spend on it.

Unknown: I think it ruined it more for you than for me. I was like, oh, silly. And you would rope her.

Tommy: Oh, for a little bit. Yeah, negative spot. She told me meditate, meditate.

Josh: Anyway, go do some meditation, everyone. Do you know what I found really helpful? I've been very good at like writing, uh, writing down shit I need to do. I know we have Asana and everything. No, no, just go old school, literally like a notepad. Each evening I've been like, okay, this is what I need to do tomorrow. And then it's just like, okay, I can go back to that.

Tommy: Here's a few things to write down for tomorrow.

Josh: I don't have my pen and paper. Breezer actually asked me something as I was going to bed, didn't I, Breezer? She's very focused on working.

Tommy: Anyway, so write this down.

Josh: I need my—

Tommy: Go. Yeah, yeah, it's metaphorically.

Josh: Okay. Just take it to the letter. What, you actually need me to do it or no?

Tommy: No. Okay. Go to Salona in Richmond. Do a Fat Fridays episode with a bunch of Gronks.

Josh: This is actually happening?

Tommy: Taste lots and lots of Greek yummy food. Yummy Greek food.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: And have fun.

Josh: That sounds good.

Tommy: So that's for tomorrow. That's what we're doing tomorrow.

Josh: Okay.

Tommy: I don't think I'll forget that.

Josh: No, I don't think I will either. It's a daily talk show. Do we have any emails?

Mason: Yeah, well, we've got one from Tim. Uh, he saw a bloke at the Glenferry 7-Eleven take 6 keep cups in to get free coffee. There was only one machine in order, so it held everyone else waiting behind him up for 5 minutes.

Josh: Is it Tim or Tom? Was it Tommy?

Unknown: Was it?

Josh: It's Tom. I actually—

Tommy: okay, I saw someone today with 2 keep cups.

Mason: 2.

Tommy: And I had mine. She looked over.

Josh: I fucked up the joke anyway because I thought the guy who took the cups The name was Tom. Tim.

Tommy: Tommy.

Josh: Tommy. Anyway, but no, it's, uh, no, I mean, gronks are going to come out whenever, anytime there's anything free. Yeah, it's literally, it's literally why when Mad Mex or G&GYG do their promos where it's like free burrito day, yeah, the last place that I want to be is lining up, you know what I mean?

Tommy: Yeah, because I'll be there.

Josh: It's so busy.

Mason: At the wrong one as well.

Josh: Yeah, exactly. Today's Talk Show, hi@thedailytalkshow.com is the email address. Otherwise, we'll see you tomorrow for Tap Friday.

Tommy: See you guys.

Josh: Bye.