Sticky Fried Chicken With String Nguyen

Tommy: It's The Daily Talk Show, episode 326. What's going on, guys? We've got a fist pumper in the house.

Josh: It's not very LinkedIn of you. We've got, uh, String Nguyen. You may recognise her from blowing up on LinkedIn. That's how I first saw you anyway.

String: Like, you know, we're not even friends.

Josh: Well, that's what I was saying to Tommy. You added me, you connected, uh, to me on LinkedIn, but I see your content constantly.

String: Yeah, I know how to like growth hack the algorithm. Yeah, I, you know, like I knew that, uh, well, the easiest way is when you have second or third parties coming into it. So if you comment to my— yeah, videos, what's gonna happen is people who in your network is going to see my content on their feed.

Tommy: There's a few things that we need to work on with Josh. He was not actually accepting people who were requesting him if he didn't know them, which I was like, it's kind of counter to networking.

String: Yeah, not Facebook.

Josh: Okay, well, so what's your rule on, uh, accepting— will you just accept anyone? How many SEO experts do you have on your LinkedIn?

String: Not that many, actually. Like, I have 30,000 followers, 4,500, or maybe more now, 4,500 including you guys on LinkedIn. So I only have connection list of less than 4,500.

Tommy: Okay, so you've got the followers, then the connection list.

String: Yes, um, because I made that switch really clear, really straight away, and people ask me, it's like, how come you don't add everyone? Because I, it's like a black book.

Josh: Yeah.

String: And you could actually download those like emails as well and then spam them if you want to, but that's illegal.

Josh: Interesting.

Tommy: But we might take you up on the instruction.

Josh: So you can, so you, can you export within LinkedIn? Do you have to use like some?

String: You could export it. A lot of people don't know all these little hacks. This is what happens when you like just hang out on LinkedIn all the time.

Tommy: Yeah, just full nerding out on it. I nerd a lot.

Josh: But you're not like full business, like you're not the sort of the classic You know, you're a— what is fried chicken? You're a fried chicken loving quirky person like me. Like, I feel like I'm not very linked— I'm not very LinkedIn friendly.

String: Okay, let's talk about it. Like, what is the LinkedIn perception?

Josh: I think the perception of LinkedIn is corporate, pretty sort of like it's the anti— it's the anti-social media in regard to like, it's not, you know, it— there's a formality, there's a formality to it. And if you try and go to Facebook, whatever that means. People will be like, I didn't sign up for this type of content.

String: No, they don't have to sign up.

Josh: Exactly.

String: 500 million, maybe 50, 500 million users on LinkedIn. I'm not going to expect to be popular with everyone. Yeah, but I just want people who vibe with me. Yeah, because they protect me from trolls.

Josh: Is it troll— is trolls a big thing on LinkedIn or no?

String: Well, like, um, it depends on the way you do it. I love them because I could throw fried chicken at them. So like, when I get someone who disagrees with me, I, I hang out with I connect vegans with vegans together and then make them chat. What they do is like they talk to each other and it gains the algorithm. Or I throw them fried— 'cause also you have to remember like you're leaving digital footprints behind. So I always like go back to like PR news, like, you know what's original? KFC.

Tommy: Within how long of every conversation is the word fried chicken mentioned?

String: Oh, like every day I get like about 3 people talking to me about it at least. It used to go like last year was 1. Per day. Now it's 3 times per day.

Tommy: Okay, are we the first?

Josh: Because it's, uh, it's for the day, it's fairly early for the day.

Tommy: Yeah, okay, you've still got 2 more to go.

Josh: It has cut through.

Tommy: What? Yeah, I mean, Josh loves— I mean, you've kind of— you've got a great content mind, which is how I guess you've been able to build your, your following. Um, Josh talks a lot about things being sticky and things we do that sort of have, I guess, traction. Sticky is a great word because you can see it sort of sticking to people's heads in terms of what they remember. And fried chicken is something that is sticky.

Josh: Yes.

Tommy: Depends how it's cooked. Yeah, true.

String: Super relatable. The idea of personal branding or logos to make it relatable. And a lot of vegans will hate me, but I don't mind. You need people who hate you. People have this concept of haters, but I just like dealing with trolls 'cause they always give me the best lines. So I get inspired by them all the time. So, you know, it's like a love-hate relationship, but I love them.

Tommy: And so this fried chicken thing, just quickly, where's that from? Other than love for fried chicken.

String: I do like to give a massive shout out to my best friend, uh, Belva, because she loves fried chicken. She organised fried chicken parties and we kept on not doing it, and then I kept— I brought the idea outside of our circle and she's like, I hate you. It's like, don't worry, if I ever write a book, I've like, you know, acknowledge you in that.

Tommy: We used to do, um, Conspiracy Jimmy, a friend of ours within the proximity here. You may not see him because he is a conspiracy, uh, but he, him and I used to go. I remember when fried chicken came to Melbourne in terms of like those gammy fried chicken.

String: Korean fried chicken and beer.

Tommy: Excellent. Is that, is that, is that your background, Korean?

String: No.

Tommy: What?

String: I'm doing the awkward pause because why?

Josh: Because it's like it's got more cut-through if you do it like that.

String: That was a nice awkward pause. Um, no, I'm Vietnamese.

Tommy: Okay.

String: Nguyen is a popular name.

Tommy: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

String: It's like we're like the, uh, the Y version of Smiths. Oh, yellow version of Smiths.

Tommy: Sorry.

Josh: Okay.

Tommy: Yeah, yeah.

Josh: Fried chicken big in Vietnam?

String: It's big in everywhere in the world when you think about it. Every culture— like, one of my biggest dreams a couple years ago was to try every fried chicken in every culture because every culture have their own variation of fried chicken.

Josh: Yeah.

String: And that's why, like, I just wrote Fried Chicken. People won't get it. Some people get it, but they eventually— they— every time they see KFC or fried chicken, they think of me.

Tommy: And that's like the stickiness, the branding thing.

Josh: Well, it's accessible, isn't it? It's like it's something— it's like, well, the fried chicken, it's like it doesn't matter where you are on the spectrum of, you know, like how you're doing in the world. It's like fried chicken is fried chicken. Like, it's not like, I know in New York they did like a gold, did you see that?

String: A gold fried chicken? Yes, I guess, and everyone sent me that link. Like I had it like 3 times. I mean, a lot of people will send me like, when are we gonna try this $1,000 thing? Can you use your influencing powers to like see if you could get into it? I'm like, I'm laughing because if anything, it just made people think of me as well.

Josh: Yeah, yeah.

Tommy: Well, you need a crowdfund to actually have it happen.

String: I actually think that that's doable, but I think they dropped down because the food, it might look cool, but the flavour probably won't taste good.

Josh: Yeah, well, that's the thing, like you're buying high, like that is like the ultimate hype, isn't it? It's like, we're gonna put this thing on it to make it like less accessible for people. Yeah, but it doesn't actually taste great any better.

String: Well, the thing is like I used it as like a community tool because I get a lot of inbound. So anyone who uses fried chicken in my messages, I know they like listen to my content or know my reference. So they drop fried chickens, is I love fried chicken too. And it's like, that's my person. Yeah, I could be the nicest person to them.

Josh: I try to be a hot choc— no, I try to be the hot choc guy. So when I was, uh, I did a trip around the world with Envato where I was filming, and I tried a hot chocolate everywhere I went, which was like a great idea, but it's not that sustainable in regards to like from a lifestyle point of view, because I—

Tommy: you're more the squeegee guy now than the hot chocolate guy.

String: Yeah, which is a whole Fried chicken is like, I do it visually because I don't have to get fat in real time.

Josh: Yeah, well, because there's a decent amount of protein there.

Tommy: I reckon you'd struggle getting fat anyway.

String: I do, I do.

Tommy: My metabolism is too fast. The fried chicken can't even do anything. String, we were talking before about where you grew up in Melbourne. Out west? Is that west?

String: Is it Flemington? Is Flemington out west or like inner west?

Tommy: It's inner, definitely inner west because it's not that far from the CBD.

Josh: If it's inner west or west, it's still west though, right?

String: The guys were asking me where I grew up and I told them I grew up in the commission flats because my mum was like, her parents were refugees, they skipped the war in Vietnam. Like most first-generation Vietnamese are generally like refugees, but I grew up here and was born here. So we get chucked into the commission flats, all of us.

Josh: And so what, like, what is the, what's the experience, uh, you now versus your childhood? What, what can you reflect on now? What was it like?

String: It's the same.

Josh: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Tommy: Well, commission housing in Australia is public housing.

String: Yes, public housing. Oh, but I guess like a lot of people when they hear that, they feel like, oh, poor you. But I'm like, I had the best childhood. Yeah, like I ran amok, I played with the boys, like I got— they taught me how to play soccer, they learned to taught me like self-defense in many ways. So like, like they— my street instincts were from there, so I trust my instincts from that.

Josh: Yeah.

String: And a lot of guys will look after me anyway, so People ask me, it's like, you know, did you have a poor childhood? Like, no, it's the best childhood. I was laughing all the time.

Josh: Yeah, because I guess like there is the, uh, the one thing I think about is like mental health and mental illness. Like just going along, say, near Victoria Street or certain sort of areas where there are commission flats in Melbourne, they are like hot spots for crime. Yeah, for crime, for, you know, drug use, for mental health type of issues. And so essentially all of that sort of coming together, do you think— has that changed? Like, when you were growing up, was it the same type of experience?

String: So if anything, I feel more empathetic because I could relate to the situation, because at the moment it's the Sudanese community in that situation. But like, education, I think my mum drummed into us because like she grew— like she was a single mum, um, taking care of 5 kids as well. So she drummed into us like education is like our route to escape poverty. And my sister works for the army as well.

Josh: Oh cool.

String: Um, and me, like, we all like hanged out at the library. So like my love for learning, like, she was like— my mom was super resourceful, so she chucked us into the library. The librarians loved us.

Josh: Yeah.

String: So all I did was like hang out and like hang out with Sigmund Freud and learn about psychology. And when I was like 12 years old.

Tommy: But I don't think I could take my kid to the library. He's too noisy. He'd be— ah, he's so noisy. I mean, he's only 2, but he's just started screaming.

String: Oh, well, it's— well, we're home in school, and my brothers, they love chess, so that's where, like, they, they play chess, and, like, they're really good. I can't compete against them. But I think the librarians love us because they never kicked us out.

Josh: Yeah, that's nice. Well, there's a— there's definitely— I was speaking with Scooter Derek, who's been on our show a few times, uh, his partner, she is like a librarian, and talking about how the shift between what libraries used to be versus what they are now, they're like positioned as community centers. It's an open place where people can go and, you know, not only access things like, you know, the internet, but also a place that you can sort of find quiet time for study and things like that.

String: And I think that's the library has transitioned to it because Google is the library now. Yeah. But I think like there's a lot of like shit content out there as well, just saying that, because there's a lot of like, you know, with a— and that's what's happening on LinkedIn now is like people are pushing out really generic content out there with no value, or like they're doing it for the sake of values. And now people are like becoming LinkedIn influencers and getting really caught up with the candy game of like likes. So they're becoming the new Instagrammers.

Josh: How did that happen? How did you end up deciding LinkedIn is the game that you wanted to play?

String: Oh, well, I went on to video because video I find is gonna be the tool that's gonna amplify everything and mostly consumption on the internet is through video these days, right? Including Netflix, YouTube and things. And I knew that video was gonna be the trend that we go be, that I need to jump onto. So I started using Meerkat. Have you heard of Meerkat?

Josh: Yeah, I remember Meerkat.

String: Meerkat died in 6 months.

Josh: Was Periscope and Meerkat side by side? I feel like Gary Vee was a Meerkat guy. Yeah, he invested in it.

String: So Meerkat actually, like, if you like technology, integrated so well into Twitter, like, beautifully. Like, Periscope doesn't even integrate into Twitter, like, in the first couple years.

Josh: Which is funny because Periscope is now owned by Twitter.

Tommy: Yes, it's still around.

String: Yeah, it's—

Josh: Periscope is, yeah, still around. Meerkat, well, they actually came out, I think it must have been 2014.

String: Yes.

Josh: And they came out at South by Southwest. I was there that year and it was crazy, right? Yeah, it was like the two, the two platforms were sort of being used side by side.

Tommy: George Luntell, he's like, get on it, mate.

String: Yeah, but I wasn't really thinking that Meerkat would like get brought up by Twitter, but they're already like starting conversations with Periscope. And then when Meerkat came out, that's when like Periscope came out because they had to, because they saw the momentum they're going and squished Meerkat. So I grew like, oh, little meerkat.

Tommy: I was just picturing, picturing a little meerkat getting squished.

String: The best logos as well. And they're like, I have like one logo where I make a joke that is dead, you know, cross-eyed. Um, but I grew 44,000 followers in 6 months and like top 20.

Tommy: Wow, on Meerkat? What were you doing?

String: Just streaming every day.

Tommy: Just being you?

String: Yeah.

Tommy: And so what did you find from— is, is that a case of first platform?

String: Like, do you feel like it was— it's always first movers, right? Yeah. And that's what happened on to LinkedIn. I went on to Snapchat and I was there and I We won a Snapchat award for best Snapchat channel for women in tech, so I was a producer for that.

Josh: What was that channel called?

String: Women in Tech.

Josh: Yeah, cool.

String: But it kind of— it dwindled a little bit. Now it's on Instagram. But saying that, like, I was trying to monetize within, like, 6 months of, of, like, going on to Snapchat. I realised it was really hard to monetize because Australian business is quite conservative. If I was in America, like, bola, but it was in USA, like, I couldn't monetize it, they prefer Facebook Live over Snapchat. Yeah, makes sense.

Tommy: Well, isn't like Snapchat you can't see your following?

String: Well, like you still have a community because like they're people, it's just a different stickiness. Like I developed content there, like people loved it. I have like people comment, like messaging me, it's like, Stream, where have you been? I love your Snapchat channel.

Josh: Yeah, it's almost a bit more like direct sales as well. Like it's like if you're not hearing back, you don't know, right?

Tommy: You can see that, okay, how many people have view, but if you're not having interaction, yeah, I guess maybe that's the gauge, right?

String: Well, like, um, it's just business. But then I realised I was more, um, then linked— like, the day that I was like, I knew Instagram was gonna rise and I, I knew projected it was gonna like continue that thing, is that when I want to like, um, cut down Snapchat and switch to Instagram, when LinkedIn knocked on the door, yeah, and said, String, I love your content, would you like to be a be the user for a video on LinkedIn. I'm like, hell yeah. And then I went viral.

Josh: Yeah. Well, I remember when the LinkedIn video stuff was happening and I—

Tommy: Where the fuck was my knock, by the way?

Josh: Well, I think that the— I was knocking. I remember speaking.

Tommy: You were knocking on their door. No, you're going to have them knock on your door.

Josh: No, I was knocking on your door, Tommy, which is completely the wrong door. But if we learn anything—

Tommy: I didn't even have a door at the time.

Josh: Yeah. I was ringing a doorbell. You had rings. You're just looking, not answering. But the, um, I remember speaking with Jules and I like, as I went in one of my sort of manic modes where I'm like, this is gonna, this is happening. And at the time you could only upload through mobile or whatever. So I was looking at, I thought doing a LinkedIn-only series and building all that sort of thing. But if there's so many people who have these ideas and theories and wants to be first to market, but you're actually someone who did it. What was the, uh, what was the daily practise that you sort of, you know, started on to see that grow?

String: Start 4 years.

Josh: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

String: Oh, literally, like, Meerkat was like my, like, uh, structure for things because I created a framework for it. Create content every day, be authentic as yourself, but you have to know your vision, your values.

Josh: Oh, hang on, you got your 6 V's.

String: 7 views.

Josh: 7. Has it always been 7?

String: No, it was starting off 4, then you went evolved over 7.

Josh: One of them's a German word, so evolved.

String: Oh, high five! You actually listened to my question.

Tommy: I'm lost, are we talking about the Mighty Ducks?

String: So like, over the course of the years I've been developing my personal brand and I created a framework around it and it's been something that I've been super consistent about and people pay me for this now. Amazing.

Tommy: Are we getting this for free right now? Is that what's happening? Shit.

Josh: Oh my God.

String: Are you ready?

Josh: Yeah, here we go.

String: So think of it like—

Tommy: She's got a little PayPass thing. It's already taken money from my—

Josh: Yeah, swear. Yeah, swear. We'll just have to—

String: So, you know, Tommy, you're like, you have to listen to it. Just say, yep, I got that. No, I don't got that. Okay, I need to work on that. So think of it as an audit list. Are you ready?

Tommy: Yes.

String: Okay. So do you have a vision? A vision that like, it's like almost your legacy, your North Star, something bigger purpose than you, but allows you to fulfil your vision for the next 10 years.

Josh: Yes.

String: Cool. Okay, what is it?

Tommy: I got that. It's this shit. Oh my God, this is amazing. It's the daily talk show. It's the business I have with Josh.

String: That's a goal. A vision is like—

Tommy: Our vision though is—

String: It's like almost like your North Star. Like what is your purpose? It's like, you know, it's like for like Elon Musk is to bring humanity outside of Earth.

Tommy: Oh shit, I'm not— Mine just seems petty compared to that. No, it's to create an environment where I'm surrounded by people that we can all bring each other up. We're all creating, we're all like— we've thought a lot about this stuff.

Josh: Yeah, I think part of it too is for, for our audience, it's realising that the future of work can be a bit isolating. It can be like we're spending a lot of time on Slack, we're spending a lot of time on our own working from home. Yeah, the daily talk show is something that whether you have a tab open on your browser or, you know, you're going for a walk you know, through the— through a podcast app, you can feel like you're connected and have that daily touchpoint.

String: So I'm going to like streamline that. So you want people to feel connected?

Josh: Yeah, absolutely.

String: Especially in the future of work we're heading to. So that's the vision you're going for. Um, the V is values. There's two types of values. It's like business values, because then you know you have to make money. I always believe that. Um, and the second value is your personal framework values. It's like it protects you from allows you to say yes or no and it keeps your integrity. Yes, because personal branding at the end of the day, or branding, is walking in your own truth every day. And that's like a lot of respect if you could like do that every day, right? Um, and the third one is Volk, which is a German word for people. It's like Volkswagen.

Tommy: Yeah.

String: So who are the people that you're trying to serve? Uh, and a lot of times, and if you want to go even more like, you know, extra below, is like, who are your partners?

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: Did you learn German or how did you get to—

String: Okay, no, but actually my friend gave me that, like, string. I found the word for you. It's like, because everyone's all about collaboration. Yeah, like, you mean you're like, like, there's a word, there's a word.

Tommy: Well, how do you spell it?

String: V-O-L-K. Volkswagen.

Tommy: Ah yeah, Volkswagen.

Josh: Yeah, it's got cutthroat. Yeah, having a word that's outside of English, I feel like there's a lot of—

Tommy: Yeah, it makes you ask questions.

Josh: Yeah, I like that.

String: Um, but the fact that you remember is awesome.

Josh: That is good.

String: That is good. Yeah. Uh, uh, what's that? Visuals. So what is your visual? So like the stickiness that you guys were mentioning, for me it was like fried chicken, even my glasses, my black hair, like how you look visually presenting-wise. Sometimes people knew simple things like, uh, what colour you're wearing.

Tommy: Yeah.

String: So I heard like he likes wearing black and you like wearing white. Yeah.

Tommy: Well, yeah, we've kind of just cemented that on the show, which has been— it's been good. I guess it's like I just didn't want— because he wears the same thing every day. I actually come usually in a different color, and so I was like I can't be, maybe I could start doing something different.

Josh: It started off, Tommy started pure white and now it's slowly working towards sort of a more of a cream.

Tommy: The white balance is picking up as crystal clear white, mate. It's called I need a bit of nappy sand. We need some integration here, nappy sand, please.

Josh: But the visual stuff makes a lot of sense. Like I noticed that Dr. Jason Fox, who we've had on the show as well.

String: Shout out to him, he's amazing.

Josh: He's awesome. He talked about like, I don't know what that was.

String: You want to say something?

Tommy: You stopped.

String: What?

Josh: What?

Tommy: What?

Josh: Yeah, the, um, the, uh, he talks about like the psychology of the things that we wear, and like by changing the things that we wear, we can actually change our, like, even the way that we present ourselves and how we communicate. That's a part of the reason why I went sort of minimal, got this sort of like Steve Jobs glasses, was the idea of like I used to wear snapbacks and being sort of like the classic creative with a big neck beard. And I still fall into that, but a part of me was like, I want to also go to meetings and not be put into the— into that sort of camp box. I wanted to sort of move beyond that. Not everyone is as like— well, you're right, yeah, I'm such a small person, my headspace is so tiny. Your headphones just fell off. I was more worried about his coming off the—

Tommy: we gotta keep that branding. Yeah, yeah, the visual, the visual, dark hair.

Josh: But so, I mean, a lot of people don't think about it. How much were you thinking about the— your, your visual?

String: Well, like, I've— I think I've inspired a lot of people to use emojis on LinkedIn.

Josh: Yeah, yeah. Do you have emojis in your name? Can you have emojis in your name?

String: Well, I asked like a trademark lawyer about that.

Josh: Yeah.

String: And he said no.

Josh: Oh, interesting.

String: But like, I was like, can I use like FC as leverage of KFC. Yeah, yeah, you can do that, but not the same colour string.

Tommy: And Mr. 97, can you look up who created the emojis? Because I don't think it's Apple. I think there was a different business in Australia.

String: So like, um, emojis, they kind of made it open source, and I think they just decided— well, I have to look into it, but I do think that emojis has become like an everyday lexicon. My— one of my girlfriends, she's a communicator, she says like, I'm pretty cold on emails or like communications because I don't use enough emojis to make it look like I'm warm and fuzzy. She says like, I'm very cold. And it's like, whoa. So people do like emojis in their conversations.

Josh: Or some people like, uh, the habit that I really don't like is where people won't say hi, they just say your name and then they do a comment, you know, like an email.

String: Yeah, yeah.

Josh: And that's almost feels like the anti— the anti-emoji. But working at Envato, they taught me about like the use of smileys. Like, Collis Tade would always— who is the CEO— he would always do it. He got me into the smiley with the nose. Like, you know, I used to just do it as like the colon.

String: Oh yes, so you got the, the other one where you'd use the like actual letters? Yeah, that's a word for it.

Josh: Yeah, that's old school, like a emoticon. Well, I saw actually, uh, Seth Godin has a book that he made that's all on the different, uh, like this would have early '90s. I bought a copy just to have, but it was the dictionary of emoticons. But he also has on the same page on his blog, he talks about don't use emojis in email.

Tommy: Interesting. Well, a lot of the time they used to break, so you'd see the code of what the emoji was. Now most devices and stuff are actually showing up there.

Josh: Well, Mr. 97 doesn't see all of ours. You don't see the celebration. No, on Android, they've got a different emoji set. So it just ends up with like a box with a cross.

String: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Tommy: That's on purpose, mate.

Josh: You're out.

Tommy: You're fucking out. It's Android.

Josh: What's the— what's that? So it was actually a bloke who created them, a Japanese interface designer. So it wasn't actually a company who created the first set. Oh, really? Like an artist or something?

String: Amazing. So the Japanese are great because like they made Line, which is a communication app. They made like $21 million just selling stickers. Wow.

Josh: Yeah, like stickers as in like visual, like a virtual—

String: yeah. And did you see it everywhere? Like my virtual assistants, there's like, string, you're amazing.

Josh: I have— I saw that on Telegram where when I would put an emoji, it would then replace it with a sticker.

Tommy: Yes.

Josh: And yeah, we've seen that. And so then all of a sudden— but I've got friends who get right into the GIFs, and like, uh, my girlfriend Bree gets right into it. Like, she's got a group like a message thing for our work, and it just becomes this string of—

String: I love how you can use them.

Tommy: Yeah, exactly.

Josh: Are you stringing it? As I said, I was like, string. A string of—

Tommy: yeah, yeah, replying with GIFs. It's awesome.

String: So you guys should do like your own GIF set.

Josh: Yes, we want to on Giphy, right?

String: Yeah, um, you know, you can download Giphy Cam and create your own. Giphy Cam is like— it's owned by Giphy, and you could like actually do whole like your whole lot of like, um, Giphy things.

Josh: Oh, that's cool.

String: And then use the standard one is hi, thank you so much, I love you.

Josh: Oh, that's great. And can you do— I'm guessing you probably could do like green screen, like you could even get like cut out.

String: Yeah, now you're getting just do the basics and then go on to things.

Tommy: Well, I'm like a production company, we need to make sure that we're keeping it.

String: So that's like a lot of things like a lot of people don't leverage. And, um, the tricky is like how do you get it So then when people search, when they say thank you, that you are at the top of the thank you things. Like, just like, you know, you just want to be the first one.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: Yeah.

String: So that's the trick that you need.

Tommy: Well, like on, um, Instagram you can find Gary Vee ones, can't you? Like he's—

Josh: and that's through the GIF. I never know if it's a soft G or a hard G. I'll say Jiffy because I feel like you have more—

String: a GIF, GIF, the same thing. People get upset with me.

Josh: Well, the Giphy— I say Giphy, I think, but the to get onto the Instagram stuff, from the research I've done, you need to be part of their partner programme 'cause it used to be open, then they're like, ah, so many people are racist. And so you end up with all of these like—

String: I'm not surprised.

Josh: Super, like, so they had to cut it down. So now you have to be a Giphy partner to then be allowed into the, like the API to put it on Instagram and stuff like that.

String: So speaking of which, visuals. So we went onto that. My boyfriend says like, string, you need to be a meme in life. Yeah. So when you become a meme, that's when you know you're famous.

Tommy: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

String: So you guys should be like—

Josh: that's a good point.

Tommy: What could be examples of someone becoming a meme?

String: Gary Vee is a meme, isn't he?

Josh: Egg boy.

Tommy: That's definitely a meme.

String: So you guys, let's do a challenge.

Tommy: Yeah, okay.

String: One of us has to be a meme in life.

Josh: Yeah, yeah. I feel like I've— I don't—

String: you reckon he is? Why do you think that is, Lisa?

Josh: Just my outrageousness?

Tommy: Episode 14. Episode 14, yeah.

String: What's happening in episode 14?

Tommy: You'd have to listen.

Josh: Well, we did this radical honesty thing, and so I just like told something, told like a personal secret or whatever, which people have really stuck. Like, it's really stuck, and now it's become a bit of a thing.

Tommy: Do you think the intention to become a meme versus just being you and becoming a meme are two different things? Like, it won't happen if you're trying to become one?

String: I don't know, man. I think eventually if I'm set the course, you have to plant seeds. Like, I'm more strategic. I just plant lots of seeds and see which one sticks.

Tommy: Okay, so you're not, so yeah, okay. No, that makes sense. But if you were to become a meme of a byproduct of one of the seeds you created, then that would be natural.

String: Yeah, I want like, for example, I should do a rap, a fried chicken rap song.

Josh: Yeah, absolutely. Well, I think there's something in, so you can have an intention to do it. Because like Tommy, I think the reason Tommy's the least likely is because, uh, I feel like TJ's like, you're more conservative in regards to your brand. Well, it's like, it's more, uh, you're more not protective, but you know.

Tommy: But what is a meme though? Let's discuss that, because you could say that me fishing bikes out of the Yarra becomes a meme.

Josh: Absolutely.

Tommy: Also, that is something stupid.

Josh: He had a viral video on Obike, so I think that that—

String: it's not you?

Tommy: Yeah.

String: Oh, even I know that.

Tommy: That's you.

Josh: Real cut-through. But I remember the V's, right? I remember Volk. I remembered Volk.

String: Yeah. Oh, that's the same.

Tommy: No, but please tell me if you saw it.

String: I did. I did. Like, when you triggered— that's a trigger memory. But I didn't even know that was—

Josh: Triggered in a good way. Tommy triggers a lot of people. Yeah. But that's definitely— there's definitely a thing where it's like—

Tommy: So it's meme-worthy?

Josh: Yeah.

String: It is. Like, and you bring it up, everyone will like, "I remember you." But then sometimes, like, what happens is, like, you became a meme and then it has its life of its own. Yeah, people will use it for different contexts. So that's what I realized.

Josh: Um, he also did a 7-Eleven coffee sting where he worked out that you could fit a $2 7-Eleven coffee in a $1 cup. And so that was also—

String: yeah, that's a life hack.

Josh: Yeah, he ended up on the project for that. So he's—

Tommy: yeah, but you see, you see how these things do. And it's— yeah, it might come from something, it could become from something that you end up wanting to be serious, and then it's like takes on a life of its own in the opposite direction.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: What about if it— what about if you— have you ever created something or done something where you didn't want it to get the traction that it did, but it did?

String: Well, like, I kind of like laugh at those moments because the whole point is like you don't have control. And see, I guess like I had the creative, like, um, lack of creative control because I just like do lots of things and set the intentions. I think intentions is really important. That would kind of like help the universe control the narrative of things. And so, but that's probably why I wanted to go online, because I realised that the traditional path of the 9 to 5 didn't suit me, because every time I go up, I notice like there's some barriers that want to squish me or like push me down a lot. So I realised like I'm better off going on the internet and creating my own path.

Josh: Yeah. So we got visuals. What are the, what are the other things?

String: Validate, uh, voice. So what are your key messages out there? Like your tone of voice. Like you guys have it, like, you know, Americans chilled, kind of hipster-ish.

Tommy: God, we were going for conservative, well-groomed.

Josh: Yeah, absolutely. Crisp white t-shirts.

Tommy: No, I think that is, and what you explained is essentially what we are at heart, just a bunch of cheeky blokes having a bit of fun that love, you know, complex things but silly shit.

String: Yeah, so like shits and giggles. Yeah, and I think that's why I vibed with you guys already because I came in and like, yeah, I could like talk shit with these guys.

Josh: Yeah. Well, I think that's like the— if you're being your true self, it becomes a lot easier. I don't think we could do, you know, 300-odd episodes if we were like doing a persona as well.

String: No, well, you can't. That's like, do you want to be a person or personality?

Josh: Yeah.

String: Which is sustainable? Yeah, the person.

Josh: Yeah, the person. And so that— so there's a voice, then what's after voice?

String: Uh, then validation. What are they like? You know, marketers, we have to be KPIs. What are your goals? But people, when you go visions, you need to like break down your, what you wanna achieve and you doing the show is like a validation and kind of like, this is what we need to like achieve. So you put your goals in there as well. And the last one is victory. It's like make money. How do you make money on this? If you wanna like be a sustainable content creator or thought leader or whatever you wanna be, you have to make sure that you make a business out of it as well.

Josh: Those two Vs, I feel like are the hardest for most people, the validation and the victory.

String: Yeah, um, validation, because a lot of people don't think big picture enough and they're always confused the vision with a goal.

Josh: Yeah.

String: And so they don't realise that their goal is short-term thinking. And a lot of times, like, what I realise is like a lot of times people only think 3 months ahead, not even 10 years ahead. Yeah.

Josh: Well, I mean, that's part of our whole thing is it's like the long game of doing it. Like saying we're doing this for at least 10 years, it gives us the opportunity of like we don't have to feel like we're leveraging everything now. We don't have to like squeeze everything. We can actually just iterate and develop.

Tommy: I think also sometimes, say if you don't have it all mapped out, it's too overwhelming to sort of think about this vision. The short-term goals actually help you see a vision.

String: Yeah.

Tommy: Ah, it's working this way.

String: Yeah. Well, along the way, I'm not saying, I just happen to be the person like only I had 10 years to think about things. Yeah, but it kept on like moving towards— every time I'd go the opposite of creativity, my life go to the shits. So I realised like creativity is like the core ethos of my life.

Tommy: It's your North Star.

String: Yeah, that's my North Star. And what I've like done is like video has always been something that I'm like gravitate towards, and I always have hypergrowth when I can't focus on video. So like whenever time— and I have to go to America, like think of this You gotta go to America or go outside of Australia to get recognition.

Josh: Yeah.

String: How like ironic and stupid is that? That we have to like, um, to pop the tall poppy syndrome. We have to get outside of US, uh, Australia to get recognised even in our own country.

Josh: Do you find that there are a lot of limiting beliefs that are applied to you through the Australian community?

String: Well, like, uh, I think what happened was like I had to break my own limiting belief because other people kept on like pushing me up. And so I'm quite thankful for the champions that like backed me up along the way.

Josh: And who was that?

Tommy: And what was your limiting belief?

String: Oh, it was like, I'm not good enough. Um, on like, let's talk about Meerkat because that was like a really foundational point in my life. Um, the people that I met there were the communities that I continued to talk to from this day on. And one of them like became almost like a patron, you know, like someone like a creative person, an artist person, like got backed by someone else. And he's always like, uh, backed founders. So I got to live in the most expensive city, San Francisco, you know, and he like helped— like, it's almost like an entrepreneur residence or something like that. Wow. So I get to hang out for 6 months, and then I got to hang out with all the amazing geeks because like, you know, San Francisco and Silicon Valley is like tech nerds, and I was able to have conversations with every one of them.

Josh: And so expensive though as well, like living like living there is crazy. It seems like that sort of patronage sort of model is something that there is, like it's happened for Simon Sinek. I remember hearing him talk about, uh, how it's been, you know, for years and hundreds of years it's been a thing where artists have been supported by financial backers. But there is like Patreon.

String: Yeah, I was thinking of Patreon as well.

Josh: Yeah, I mean, what's the— what's your vibe on Patreon?

String: Patreon. Or like, my same mentor says like, Shreem, that's gonna like ruin your brand by doing that, by asking for— because like the direction I'm going is like, he knows the direction I'm going is to help more like, uh, professionals. And professionals don't really hang out on Patreon.

Josh: Yeah, um, so it's such a hard— I think Patreon, there's a select audience that it's good for. Yeah, but I've never— I haven't seen anyone in Australia making over $1,000 a month on it. It's like the amount of energy that they're putting into it It feels like it's a lot of—

String: what it's done is like, I feel like it's unconsciously pushing people down because it's like putting— because the framework already and the use cases already, it's like very small, like $1, $5. $1 is not great because it's— it's— I'm going into financial things. It's like, that's like your credit card or like your fees on PayPal already. So you need like 1 million, you know, 1,001 dollars to get $1,000. But there's a lot of fees along that, along the way.

Josh: The anchoring seems wrong. Right? It's like you're being anchored in this, like, versus like, what would it look like if someone was to give a thou— like, if you had—

String: person giving $1,000—

Josh: if you had like 8 supporters giving you $1,000 or whatever, and you were able to— I guess there's a mix match of— I could imagine like the future being in this mix of that sort of patronage versus retainers and like great clients.

String: Yeah, I had a massive argument with my capitalistic American friends about—

Josh: Where do those arguments happen, by the way?

String: In the bars.

Tommy: Starbucks.

String: No way Starbucks, in bars. I'm gonna be real here.

Tommy: So you pissed your 4 whiskies in.

String: Yeah, you're yelling at each other. Like, it was in Sydney and I told them, it's like, oh, you know, we can't have single malt whiskies after 11 PM because they're gonna make you drink something with it. It's like, don't ruin a single malt.

Tommy: I see.

String: Yeah, but we have—

Tommy: It's lost on the guy that's never been here. I'm just saying, don't ruin it. I had a biggest argument with my uncle. I was like, mate, can I have some bourbon? He's like, yeah, sure. And then he sees me pouring Coke into it. He's like, no, go off.

Josh: Well, that's like with our Moka Master at home, which is drip coffee, and Bree bought milk and she's been putting milk in it. I think that's absurd.

Tommy: I used to do it.

Josh: Can you even do— are you actually— is that allowed?

Tommy: I told you that place we went to, they, they were like, no, we're not going to do that.

Josh: So it's like, but in a drip coffee, I don't even think that, like, you can do turtles or whatever.

String: So this is my thing about, like, you I don't know if we recorded it, but Australia is incredibly bougie when it comes to coffee, as you can tell by these two guys. Yeah.

Josh: I mean, what's your— like, so the argument that you had—

String: Well, it's like, so thanks for following up on that. Well, because you know how Buffer was one of the decentralised thing and they send out all the money of like everyone's paycheck?

Tommy: Who's that?

String: Buffer.

Josh: Buffer.

String: Okay. So what they did was like they just made it open transparency. It's like, this is how much everyone's getting paid.

Josh: Yeah.

String: And to say this is like the standard or roughly the standard. And I was thinking, it being, 'cause like creatives and freelancers, they, and artists, what they do is they always seem to undercut themselves or don't know where to position themselves in terms of like hourly rate, cost and things like that, right? And I was like, wouldn't it be awesome if we like help them with standardising their hourly rates or something like that? And they're like, no, don't do that.

Josh: Yeah, yeah, well I think that like we were talking about that just last week around what happens when you start being more open and transparent with salaries. There's two sides of the coin. One side is that it's great for things like diversity in the workplace and having a fair go for people because it means that we're being transparent. The other side of it is the intangible things that people are bringing to businesses. So it's like, for instance, say with you, your Meerkat experience might have a higher value for one business, but you are positioned with someone who's got the same LinkedIn following or whatever, and they want to— they end up paying you more because it's like from this thing here. And so I think that that's like— money is a very complicated thing. I think what you're talking about makes so much sense, which is like the artist— like, as an artist, we devalue it. Like, so many of us That's a limited value.

String: But then I think it's also because like they're never taught to think about business, but we have to now because every creative person is an entrepreneur now, and that's the future of work. Like, we're actually in the position of like training because a lot of like corporate people are sheep mentality people who want to escape the 9-to-5 job, but they don't know how to get out of it.

Josh: What do you think about like, uh, free work, doing work for free? I saw something online where, um, I think it was a woman in tech talking about like not working for free and I charge this much and all that sort of thing. And I understood that to a certain degree, but I also felt like it's a limiting belief or limiting opportunities, and it actually is going to hinder people who are at the early stages of their career where it's like, no, you actually do— like, we do have to work for free and that's how you build up the stuff. And so if you're like, no, I'm worth something Yeah. Is that actually positive or negative to pay gaps, or—

String: well, I, I worked for free.

Josh: Yeah.

String: Like when I started out to build up my reputation and my systems and stuff like that. And if anything, um, like I feel like everyone has to go through that because you want to know who has that mindset, right? Who has the perseverance and, uh, and the ability to persist. Because that's like a— for me, that's like a really strong requirement for when I hire an intern, for example. People is like, do they have that kind of ability?

Josh: Yeah, I think that it's like completely underestimated that. And I think there's probably like— we see overcorrections in everything. And so I think that people probably realise it's like, it's nice to be able to charge, but if you're at home, if you're not doing anything versus going out and having skin in the game and getting experience—

Tommy: at what point though is the time that you say we don't do anything for free anymore?

String: Well, you just start charging people.

Josh: And it's based on market, right? It's like if when people start wanting to pay and it's like I've only got a certain amount of time.

String: Yeah, but you also have a deadline. So I always say like 6 months of portfolio, whatever, just give yourself a deadline and then start like trickling in and increasing your prices or putting a price down and see how many like actually bite. So that's your market value there. Yeah.

Josh: And so the San Francisco experience that you had, so we're saying it was 6 months?

String: Yeah. And then since then like, um He continues to support me because he has a history of, um, on, on his actual— what's the thing where it's a stairway, like the side thing? I haven't— my name is like along with Product Hunt.

Josh: Oh cool.

String: Yeah, and the few other people there as well. So he's like actually investing in me because he thinks I have founder capabilities, right?

Josh: So it's like an angel investor because they talk about like VCs and angel investors products are one thing, but where it lies is the people, right?

String: The founders, right?

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: And so financially, he supports you in this?

String: Just like he just gave me his space.

Tommy: Amazing. Well, can we have his number? Is he in a good spot?

Josh: Well, I mean, what—

String: Super good spot.

Josh: Yeah. And so what's the, when it comes to business deals, what has that journey been like? How do you know what to ask for?

String: Well, it's not like he's, I actually refused multiple times 'cause I didn't think he was like, I was like, is this for real? Be some kind of catch, but he did it as a general love. If anything, I find that my best champions are dads because they want to make sure that there's like their daughters have someone to look up to and it's like it's not a shit world that we live in.

Josh: That's great.

Tommy: It's such a small investment for these 1%ers that have so much, which is amazing.

Josh: Well, you have a choice, right? Like I think that if I think even with what we do with our business. It's about like, how can we— we want to get to the point of success, not for ourselves, but so then we can like share it and we can invest in other people as well. So it ends up bringing up everyone.

String: Yes. Um, and I think that's what— like, there's sometimes like the dark side of LinkedIn as a content creator. It's like, I notice people are pushing people down.

Josh: There's a great headline, by the way, The Dark Side of LinkedIn.

Tommy: And how are they doing this? What's that look like?

String: Um, they unfollow me.

Tommy: Uh, sending you nasty gifts?

String: Oh, they're just like, uh, they unfollow me, or they like, uh, just, you know, like chop the— they called the list and that was one of them. And I wasn't really upset about it because they probably see me as a competitor, but I'm just like, oh, okay, I wish you'd said something to me. But it was very high school-like, and a lot of people would like, um, get upset that I have access to like I have LinkedIn Live now, um, and I'm probably one of few Australians again to have access to it.

Tommy: So what happens, what is that, just like a live streaming like Facebook does?

String: Yes, yeah, and I have access to that and I push out content on it, but it doesn't seem to hit the algorithm at the moment. Um, so for me, I'm just like testing out to see when it like has that boost.

Josh: Are they actually— so within the app, could I even see that? No, right now, as it— what about like as a consumer of that live content.

String: It's still— you could watch it.

Josh: Yeah, I can watch it.

Tommy: It comes up as live.

String: Yeah, it comes out live and like, um, and it's post-fusion, it's not bad actually. But seeing that like, you know, LinkedIn is not— because it's a feed experience, it's not like, um, people don't get trained to like stay there for an hour, whereas like on YouTube you could like leave it on a different tab and you could like go and like hang out on there. LinkedIn doesn't have that experience. Yet because it's very much a feed experience. Interesting. And when you feed experience, like, all your content gets pushed down.

Josh: Yeah.

String: So it's not suited for LinkedIn Live or long-form content.

Tommy: If the people who are using LinkedIn actually spend hours, there'll be nothing done around the world. Businesses—

String: actually, a lot of people, people like, um, do hang out on there because I get a lot of like inbound and people have conversations with me because that's like a point of contact for them. So I have it, I leave it open. And I just wanna see what kind of like things come my way.

Tommy: I've, I asked, 'cause I like some of the videos that have done well on LinkedIn for me, I end up getting a bunch of inbound stuff, small fish compared to what you would have. But I asked Jules Lund if I could just have his phone for a second and go through his LinkedIn inbox, the stuff that he hadn't opened. My God, like hundreds and hundreds of people inbound, but half of them was so cringe. Is there a way, or what have you identified from your inbound, the stuff that's resonated?

String: And I mean, first, fried chicken.

Tommy: Yeah, okay, so it's fried chicken. So if you want to—

Josh: it is actually—

Tommy: but what is right for you?

Josh: But I think that's a great mechanism, right, to see whether people are serious, having these sort of, uh, short filters where it's like, okay, we know— it's like with our show, we have in-jokes that if we know that people bring up, there's a certain level of buy-in. And you could almost almost understand where they fit in the communication funnel based on how they communicate.

String: And so that's like, because like I realise I'm getting all these inbound and they're terrible and I screenshot them because I want to like do a whole video around it. Um, but I think the biggest one is like using the fried chicken, save me so much time because like they generally like buy into my stuff already so that I already know within the communication journey that they're already part of my tribe. Yeah. So I did that, and a lot of people should have more in-jokes. And you should have more— like, the fact that you have more in-jokes, well, like, people come to you and share their in-jokes. So you might not know their name, but you know that they get it.

Josh: Yeah, it's like a language you're building out, like a language, right? Which it's almost extending the voice beyond yourself and saying, okay, like, this is a voice that we use as a community. Like, in radio they talk about benchmarks, so it's something that you know, it's like segments. So with Hamish and Andy, they used to do something called Fred Bassett or whatever. And so these things— Fridays?

Tommy: Was that Friday?

Josh: Yeah. Or you look at things like we do Fat Fridays here. And so on Friday when people are eating shit food, they're like, fried chicken. Yeah, it's like, yeah, absolutely.

Tommy: We haven't done fried chicken. We should definitely do that.

Josh: Yeah, exactly. I was watching Hot Ones over the weekend.

String: Oh, hot wings.

Josh: Yeah, that was outrageous. Just, I watched the Gordon Ramsay one. Oh, that would be good.

Tommy: I'd love to see him.

Josh: Well, 'cause he's a big baby. Yeah, he couldn't handle it. Do you like spice?

String: I could handle it. I could handle it. So along the way, like you get, you wanna use these little signals 'cause that's how I get a lot of like, I just cut through the crap that happens.

Josh: Command F fried chicken. Yeah.

String: And what were we talking about?

Josh: Yeah, we're talking about the voice, those visual, oh sorry, the voice stuff. So it's like the language that we have And so you've gotten good to the point where it's like you can identify quickly, you can, based on signals, you can say this person has buy-in.

String: Um, and I think that's really awesome because like I did that and I, that's why I push fried chicken even more now because then you have to have it.

Josh: Have you got merch yet?

String: Yeah, yeah, I have, but I haven't pushed that out because I want to, I'm on my roadmap is like doing a fried chicken Party brand.

Josh: Amazing, that'll be good.

Tommy: Um, so you said the last one, so it's, uh, victory. Yeah, money doesn't always mean victory.

String: No, I'm glad that you pointed that out, but I'm— for creative people, I need to drum that into them, that for you to be sustainable in your career, you need to have some kind of cash flow so then you don't— because, you know, creativity diminishes if you increase your stress level.

Josh: Yes.

String: So money should not be, like money should be an easy pathway for a lot of people. Once they know their budget, their creativity actually increases if they don't have to worry about like housing and foods and stuff like that as well. So what I noticed is like, as soon as one of my stresses go away, my creativity goes up. And my sister says like, you stress a lot. It must be a greedy thing.

Tommy: Have you set like an amount? 'Cause I think that's where when you haven't worked it out, like my wife and I, Did our budget last night, and once you know it, it's like, ah, fuck, there's $4,000 extra a month that is cool to do something with.

String: Like, it's so hard, right? Yeah, because like we're not taught this stuff. And if you have to think about it, like, um, personal finance is one of my goals this year. And I realised like Barefoot Investor— yeah, I read that book too. And that my mum was like not a person to refer to, and I learned her habit, like personal finance habits from her. Like she grew like pretty much scavenged hard and was resourceful, but she spent it really fast because like it goes to like schools, food, and things like that. And you know, 5 kids, pretty expensive. Yeah. Um, and so I learned that like a lot of my habits of like just like when I got money, I spend it. I was like, it was from her. So she never told us the basic thing where it's like, you know, put away 20% or 10% into another bank and don't look at it. Yeah, stuff like that. I mean, automate that.

Tommy: Yeah, most of our parents are doing the best with what they've got. The knowledge they have. And so it is like when you look at it and put it down, and so we reduce the stress by taking into account what our budget is and then ramping up the creativity. Is there a point where you go, okay, I've built a following and there's an X amount of time that I'm going to allow myself before I need to start seeing some dollars? You know, like you build an influence. I think that's what a lot of people have done early days of Instagram, maybe early days of YouTube, they build these followings and they're not making any money.

String: But I have, yeah, I've created these packages, like it's a couple of grand, and I just need to, um, but I have to like, what I did was like I tested out the packages styles and then sent it off to people because when they asked me to do these packages, I made it very pretty and everything like that, professional and things, so they know that I'm professional as well. And then follow up with like a proposal so they could sign it off as well. So like, back end, your services. Yeah, yeah, back end-wise, like, I've like, um, they didn't expect that. So I realised like the basic influencer probably is disorganized, not business orientated. So me just like stepping up and being business orientated will like get you a lot of inbound and stuff. So like I did a Wix one and they gave me 2 inbounds. So the more portfolio you get in terms of like these global brands, you just go build up a portfolio of things. But you need to step up the back end because creative people has like a reputation of being business— non-business-like. Absolutely.

Josh: Yeah, there's the— there's definitely an advantage of merging that, you know, being a hybrid. Last week, uh, you announced, uh, a more sort of formal relationship with Shootstar.

String: Yeah.

Josh: Uh, what's the conversation like when you're doing something like that? Are you still positioning yourself as an artist that's doing creative work, or is there sales components?

String: Well, no, I'm just like lead gen for them. Yeah, and I'm okay with that, right? Um, if anything, I built that— like, that partnership or that conversation or my relationship with them started 2 years ago. So it's like, when you want to be a, like, a, like, a video evangelist and stuff like that, or evangelist or a brand ambassador, it's not going to be one of those ones where it's going to happen overnight. It's one of those ones where you have to set out and build up relationships because these are the key brands that you want to align your brand and values with as well. And they happen to align with my values a lot and my vision a lot as well. And so like every month I hang out with them like a retainer, but I act as almost like a, a team.

Josh: Yeah.

String: And promote them.

Josh: And do you find that, that the first conversation, did you bring like a deck to them and saying, hey, this one thing organized?

String: But I think over time Now, like, if I had to look in hindsight, like, I became more organized. But with them, they just kept on backing me up. I love them, super champions of mine. And if anything, I became more business orientated because I was associated with them and they taught me things unconsciously as well.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: How do you network without being gross? Because I feel like there's a sense that networking the old style comes with this, like, oh, do I seem like I'm business, right? You're not gross.

Josh: I think that's the thing, you're bringing— I think that you're bringing creativity and content and personality. And so there is the, the gross end of the spectrum, like we've done SEO work. So when people type in video production company, they see our brands or whatever, and that gets a certain type of person where it's like, to whom it may concern, you know, or the stuff that's very transactional where it's like, hey, I need a job or I want this thing versus this is how I'm going to bring value.

String: I'll be using myself as an example because I'm like the opposite. Because like instead of like, I don't even do outbound. Yeah, it's all inbound, 190% of the time. 10% of the time I'm just like hyper-targeted of who I want to be like associated with. So I start building those relationships really early. So I played the long game, I guess. I know how to do it in a way that's like not gross because networking for me means like building relationships.

Josh: What about the other side? Because you do get so much inbound, I guess you get that knowledge of what is good and what is bad. What is the— what's the commonality of a good, uh, you know, inbound, uh, communication versus a bad one outside of the fried chicken emoji?

String: Okay, um, a good one kind of says like, uh, acknowledges what you're doing and find a commonality of interest. A bad one feels like a cut and copy paste. Yeah. Or you feel like you're talking to a sleazy salesman. Like, so it's all about the vibes you bring in. Yeah. So that's what I say.

Josh: And LinkedIn as a community, has it changed much since video has started?

String: Do you think— I never hanged out on LinkedIn 2 years ago.

Josh: Yeah.

String: So it's like old school, but because they're changing from— I feel like LinkedIn, as much as I love them, they're like 10 years behind in terms of content and social media. And they only started adding like the feed experience and becoming more content-driven because that's when they realised that's what making it sticky. So they're moving towards a media company.

Tommy: Yeah, I mean, the good thing about it is that then you know what everyone's kind of there for. It's all work-related business, right?

String: And people— but that's what I mean, like, people know that I talk about business.

Tommy: Yeah, I think that's hard when you're on Instagram and then you start spruiking business and they're like, where's the fried chicken photos?

Josh: Well, it's good for B2C, I guess, Instagram.

Tommy: Yeah, definitely.

Josh: Uh, the— but LinkedIn, I think definitely— I probably see, like, I'm on LinkedIn, I'm not really on Instagram anymore, but LinkedIn, I definitely— I took some time away and I saw how powerful— like, I started getting LinkedIn recommendations when I was you know, 21 or whatever. And so I've got, you know, 30-odd recommendations from people who have gone on to work at massive companies, who have, you know, founded their own. And I found that to be amazing social proof. I think a lot of people with LinkedIn tend to only use it when they're looking for a job.

String: Yeah, yeah, but it's changed now, right? Um, I use it as like a more of a always-on— I'm like an expert in the video space Mm-hmm. And that kind of like gave me the ammunition and the framework to build up community. And I realised there's like an opportunity gap where there's a lot of people that they want to create. So I created a startup which is like a Toastmasters for video.

Josh: Oh cool.

String: Where video, like, professionals are super— it's like almost similar to Toastmasters and speaking, right? Public speaking. People are super scared of like being in front of crowds or how they present themselves, because professionals is all about the face, right? Or the professionalism, but they want to be authentic as well. So I created Master Your Video, which allows like professionals to be better communicators and future-proof their communications.

Tommy: I mean, we're in the boom of personal brands and I think more—

String: Why do you think that is?

Tommy: Well, I think it's the job scope for the future, what the future of work looks like, and I think there's more emphasis on people's personal brands and people as individuals focusing on themselves as a business. And it is, I mean, this is, it is great that we can take lessons from companies that are huge, McDonald's, all the things that have built this amazing branding experience that you can apply to yourself. And those touch points, and like you're saying, you're, you're, you're one of the people leading this personal brand, one of the stickiness, you know, what's the vision actually looking at yourself as a potential business and what's the business model of that business.

String: Because then people will back up with you when, if you think far ahead. It's like, yeah, because businesses, bigger the businesses, like they think very long term.

Josh: Yeah.

String: So you want to be associated with the long-term thinking because they want to associate with you as a brand. So if you want to go and become like a brand ambassador, you have to think like a long-term thinker.

Josh: And people want to follow other people as well.

String: Yeah, business-wise it's all about people at the end of the day.

Tommy: Yeah, that's why Starting a business page, it's super hard, you know, like they're not driven by a person because the connection's hard to make.

String: Yeah. And at the moment, like, unfortunately LinkedIn doesn't— you know, you could boost views and stuff, or the LinkedIn profiles is all organic, um, because you can't even boost those ads or views and like boost videos, anything like that. So it's all organic at the moment.

Josh: I think that LinkedIn is probably where Facebook was in like 2013 or whatever, where it's just like, yeah, it's like there is, there is that opportunity where it feels like the tap's on and you can get like a lot of views organically. Do you think, based on your sort of insider knowledge and your relationship with LinkedIn, do you think they're just going to become a very sort of switched-on algorithm that turns that tap on and off?

String: Well, it's a massive base at the moment because it's such an old platform. Yeah, and but I feel like they're moving towards like the Facebook because I see a lot of like similarities between Facebook and LinkedIn as well.

Josh: Yeah, and they also bought up Lynda.com, which—

String: LinkedIn Learning.

Josh: Yeah, and so I think like there's definitely something there where it's like the edge, you know, combining education and controlling, or, you know, being a part of the whole career journey. If they can help you learn video when you're like 15 and you have an account and all that sort of thing. Imagine what that looks like. Yeah, it's amazing.

Tommy: The, um, in terms of your nimbleness to a platform, or your, I guess, uh, what is it, agility? Yeah, to the platform. Are you willing to leave LinkedIn, you know, if it's— if there's something that you think is going to be better?

String: Like, um, Meerkat was like a valuable lesson in terms of distribution. So already like diversifying and putting my videos up onto YouTube because it's better SEO at the moment.

Josh: Yeah, yeah. I think that like being platform agnostic, yeah, has its advantages, but I think that you're a great example of if you can pick a platform and you can be first to it, you can then use that to leverage and to then, you know, spread far.

String: My content hasn't changed that much.

Josh: Yeah, yeah.

String: If anything, it's just like, um, more focused now because of the 7Bs and stuff. So people know my messages and my values. So that means like it could help me be consistent with my messaging on all the social platforms. And when— but then like I've noticed like someone found me on Sydney Airport and she thought I was bubbly and things. I was like, man, I was fucking tired.

Tommy: She found you in the airport? Yeah. It's like, strength!

String: Yeah, strength!

Tommy: And you got hit by a piece of fried chicken.

String: Ah, fuck it!

Josh: That's so funny.

Tommy: Don't have to take that literally.

Josh: I'm excited for like following you on YouTube. I think for me, from a platform point of view, I just like that it's all the videos there. LinkedIn is great. I think that the thing is that it's like, I don't always have a sense I'm seeing all of someone's content.

Tommy: Yeah, there's a lot of stuff.

Josh: I'm literally getting your content currently based on whatever it delivers to me.

String: Yeah, I'm pushing. I realise like people still like my writing and I'm doing more writing because it's just better thinking sometimes and it's more, some embedding my videos into video articles as well. But I realised like I should start like promoting my website more just in case, because your website is your digital castle at the end of the day.

Josh: Yeah, it's like empire building, right? What is it? What's your website?

String: stringstory.co.

Josh: Yeah, so is that, is that the String Story? Have you sort of wanted to ever lean more on a business brand versus your own personal one, or have you always felt the importance of that personal?

String: Well, it's stringstory.com, like started 10 years ago. Yeah, um, String Story is like just like a, um, an art project, and I just happened to like own all of the, uh, social media assets of it, and then people kept on calling me String afterwards, and then it became a thing.

Josh: Amazing, that's so funny. We would love to have you back on for a Fat Fridays and do fried chicken.

String: So this is what I love that already. Yes, of course I can say yes.

Tommy: Yeah, and where would we get it from if we're gonna get fried chicken?

String: There's like around the corner. Oh wait, you're not gonna be right.

Josh: We're gonna be Abbotsford, so near Victoria Street. Surely there's a bunch of like Korean barbecue down there.

String: Yeah, they're Vietnamese and Koreans are there as well. Like, just trust me, there's fried chicken.

Tommy: Okay, yeah, okay, we'll get fried chicken delivered.

Josh: Yeah, somehow we can do like the hot sauce thing too. Yeah, I want to like do that after seeing all the videos. I reckon I could handle it.

Tommy: Yeah, yeah, how about you Yeah, I like hot, but I, I like to eat—

Josh: it gets medium at Nando's.

Tommy: Well, I think a good hot doesn't just blow your mouth open for hours. Like, I think a good nice sauce like adds to the flavour and doesn't ruin it.

Josh: So he doesn't like it?

Tommy: No, I love it every time.

Josh: No, it doesn't sound like it.

String: Are you ready for a hot wing or hot fried chicken?

Tommy: Yeah, I'll do it. Okay, I'll be—

Josh: I'll do it. But the, uh, Bell's Hot Chicken They're more sort of like a powdery hot, which gets my throat.

String: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh look, I think, have you ever tried Hot Stars fried chicken?

Tommy: Hot Stars?

Josh: It's like, it's like in the city or something. Yeah, yeah. Did Mr. 97 just react to this guy? Is that the one with blue branding? Yeah, the blue is like sick.

String: Yeah, and what it is, is like instead of the kebab late at night, you have a like this massive fried chicken that's flattened out and it's like big as my head. Yeah, you just eat it.

Josh: And are you a bones girl or no bones?

String: Bones make it juicy. Okay, but I do sometimes, like, if you want ease of use— I have to say, eating fried chicken on video is ugly.

Josh: Well, that's what's so funny about like the whole Hot Ones YouTube thing. You've got like all these celebrities and they're like, yeah, but I do— I, I'm a boneless harmless kind of guy, just because I like, like, speed, and I just don't want to get fucking the bones in the way.

Tommy: Yeah, but it's like starving kind of like—

String: yeah, I guess like, you know, um, one of the live streaming ones is like, it's called, um, mukbang, where you eat in real time. Yeah, they have like a whole bunch of food around them and people get paid them just to eat in real time.

Josh: Wow. Hulk smash food, he gets into.

Tommy: It's a bit weird. I've got no interest in watching eating? Anyone?

String: I like it. That's like a big thing, a phenomenon that started all in Korea, and then like people love it.

Tommy: What's the, um, what's the, the term when you hear people eating, you like the sound of it? Yeah, ASMR. Yeah, audio sensory something something.

Josh: If they want that, they just have to go to the latest Fat Fridays episodes of me eating. Uh, String, thanks for coming on the show.

String: Thanks for having me.

Josh: It's a Daily Talk Show. Hi@thedailytalkshow.com if you want to send us an email. Otherwise, we'll see you tomorrow. See you guys. Bye.