Old Mate Naysan

Tommy: It's The Daily Talk Show, episode 281. This is a new segment, well, just a new thing we're doing.

Josh: It's a whole show benchmark.

Tommy: Yeah, old mate.

Naysan: Yeah, old mate. I like that.

Josh: Naysan Iraki.

Naysan: Appreciate it. Hello everyone.

Josh: So we say old mate based on you are a friend of mine and you've been a friend for a number of years.

Naysan: We go back, we go back.

Tommy: You two, what I like is you've travelled together quite extensively, which I think explores a friendship parameters like no other.

Naysan: In ways that remain in certain countries.

Tommy: I just want to cheque if— because I haven't met— I've met Chris, I've met your brothers.

Josh: Who the fuck's Chris?

Tommy: Chris Nicholls.

Naysan: Obviously not an old mate.

Tommy: I've met a few of Josh's friends, but I mean, like, pretty fortunate.

Naysan: Your brothers aren't old mates, are they?

Tommy: They're not old mates.

Josh: I don't talk to them much.

Tommy: But more just like people that know Josh on a personal level, because I've got like a bunch of schoolmates that I grew up with that work in this building where we are.

Naysan: Oh wow.

Tommy: This morning we bumped into a guy named John Safran.

Naysan: Yeah, love him.

Tommy: Yeah, he's a big fan, Australian, uh, fizzy water media personality and writer, documentarian. If you don't know him, look him up. But he said in mid-conversation, Josh was, you know, we were conversing with John and John was sort of telling a storey and then Josh took it off down a rabbit hole that was basically taking something that John said that had nothing to do with where he was going.

Josh: He's talking about, what was it called, uh, stonemasons.

Tommy: Stonemasons.

Josh: And I was like, oh, stonemasons. I started asking him questions about stonemasons, and he said in that moment, you've clicked on a hyperlink, which I find is something Josh does.

Tommy: Have you noticed this, where it's like you are talking about something, but he'll take it off on a real tangent? Is this something you've experienced, the hyperlink?

Naysan: Yeah, and the other person just remains silent listening to Josh for half an hour, and then it's like, are you finished? Can I have the mic back, please?

Tommy: It's also why we love him. So you've experienced Hyperlink?

Naysan: Yes, Hyperlink, big time.

Josh: Yeah, so Nay Sun, uh, we travelled extensively.

Naysan: We went to something like 27 locations around the world. In— was it every single continent?

Josh: No, we didn't go to Antarctica.

Tommy: Okay, we, uh, you, you stayed in the same room Did he ever make you go to sleep listening to an ebook that he had downloaded? Audiobook.

Naysan: Every night.

Tommy: Really?

Naysan: Every night, yeah. That's so funny.

Tommy: Josh did it when we stayed in a room once.

Josh: No, it's good.

Tommy: It was twice that it happened.

Naysan: I discovered a lot during that trip. I feel like I'm responsible for Josh learning that you don't wear anything other than cotton socks because it's like wearing plastic bags on your feet with rubber bands.

Josh: If you don't wear—

Naysan: If you don't. Yeah.

Tommy: What were you wearing?

Naysan: Painful.

Josh: Uh, well, before we were going away for 3 months, I thought I'm gonna stock up on socks. I found these cheap socks and it turns out all of them were like synthetic.

Tommy: Oh yeah.

Josh: And so it was—

Naysan: and in Europe a lot of the windows don't open in hotel rooms. Yeah, it was painful, let me tell you. You're like— we'd come in the morning sometimes and we'd see, oh, the room hasn't been made. Well, yeah, because the poor woman or man trying to come in was like, oh my God, like, I can't handle this room right now.

Josh: Uh, Naysan has sleep apnea.

Naysan: I do, yeah. I have it walking up the steps. You can hear me heavy breathing all the time.

Tommy: So what is sleep apnea? I don't know.

Josh: Can you describe it?

Naysan: Basically, um, you— your, uh, wind passages get blocked in the middle of the night while you're sleeping, and you can't tell, but you're basically suffocating. It's as if you're drowning. Um, I think when I went to the doctors and did the sleep test, they said it's like The guy was like, can you hold your breath for 70 seconds? I was like, no. He's like, well, that's what you've been doing all night. Really? It's like ridiculous.

Tommy: I literally just thought there was a weird segue that Josh had made to saying that you had sleep apnea. But now I get it. You were in the same room together, so you were experiencing it.

Naysan: But he never checked if I was alive or not. I don't remember him ever budging me. Are you OK, Naseem? No.

Tommy: He's listening to an audio.

Naysan: Yeah, that's right.

Josh: No, but you, um, no, because you're very noisy when you sleep.

Naysan: Yeah, it's like, it's not just snoring, there's like a symphony orchestra going on. All different. It's like I sometimes I play the flute, sometimes a saxophone, sometimes it's an entire, you know.

Tommy: But is it because you, you've, uh, as long as you don't play the conductor.

Josh: No, is it getting— does it get worse based on your weight?

Naysan: Um, there are, uh, that does relate in some instances, but I was happy to find out when I went to the specialist because I was like, yeah, I know, like after he told me the news, I was like, yeah, I know, I really gotta lose weight. And he's like, no, no, no, no, what you've got is not weight related.

Josh: It's always classic Nathan. It's never weight related for Nathan. He has trouble going up the stairs. I'm like, maybe it's a weight. It's like, it's actually—

Naysan: it's not the weight.

Tommy: It's not the way you have it.

Naysan: Yeah.

Tommy: So are you scared going to sleep?

Naysan: No, I just don't sleep very much because you suffocate. So I just end up spending— like, I get frustrated because I'm like drowning all the time. So I'm just like, might as well just get up and do some work.

Josh: You had a whole like, uh, piece.

Naysan: I have a, I have a sleep apnea mask, um, which I can't keep on my face because it's a big mask pushing oxygen into your nose. And then if you like turn a little bit— and I move quite a lot, I move to the side and it's like, oh geez, in my eyeball and stuff. And then I got the, this mouthguard made by our dear friend Nima.

Josh: Yeah, what's Neymar's— what's— so Neymar is Christian Howell's dentist.

Naysan: Yes, interesting. Yep, Ferdosi here lives here in Melbourne, awesome guy, and he got this mouth guard made for me that's supposed to bring my jaw forward to help with the breathing, and I wear it. But the thing is, I don't— I'm a sing— I'm alone, so I don't know if it's working or not. I've never had anyone— I'm not travelling with Josh, so I wouldn't know if I'm breathing funny or not. So Josh, we have to do another trip.

Josh: You should get the, um, one of those apps where you can record yourself.

Naysan: Yeah, that's true.

Josh: Because I think Mr. i7, did you have a— you had a mate, didn't you, that was— did he record him? He discovered that he was walking around at night. How did he find that out?

Naysan: Oh yeah, my best mate, he gets up to all these things during the night while he's asleep. He accidentally texts someone the other day. Yeah. But he accidentally like walked outside and he caught it on one of his like night nest cameras sort of thing.

Tommy: Freaky.

Naysan: Yeah.

Tommy: What was he doing?

Josh: He didn't even know.

Naysan: He walked out and he walked back inside. No, no recollection. He needs to keep that recording. Have you seen Paranormal Activity?

Josh: I haven't.

Tommy: Weird unit. So you can get this app that basically activates the recording as soon as it hears anything. I caught some weird shit, me saying some weird shit.

Naysan: I will do that.

Tommy: Got a bit aggressive in some of it.

Josh: Fuck the teachers!

Naysan: I wanted the noodles, not the rice.

Josh: A lot of Naysan and my discussions have been around food. Like when we travel, food is a big thing.

Naysan: Yes, in Persian we say shikamu, which means you're of the stomach, you love eating.

Tommy: Shikamu? I thought it translated as shit talking.

Naysan: Well, sorry, we can't talk because we're eating.

Josh: Yeah, yeah, but seriously, Naysan is obsessed with, um, uh, cereal. Your cereal?

Naysan: Kid cereal that you can get in the US that should be banned.

Tommy: Oh, I like it.

Naysan: There's more nutritional value in the cardboard box than there is in the actual content. But I've banned myself.

Tommy: It's been a year.

Naysan: I've I had, you know, I, I like to say I've gone cold turkey. And I, I found— I knew it was bad when I was visiting the US and I went, ran in to get something that hadn't, like Panadol or something, and I found myself in the cereal aisle like getting 5 boxes. And I was like, what'd I come here for again? And I was like, I have a problem.

Tommy: What was your favorite? Because what's Lucky Charms?

Naysan: What's Lucky Charms? Is good, like marshmallow. That's— there's a lot of them, but Lucky Charms is one of the popular ones. If you're really into cereal, you don't have a favorite. I like— yeah, true. 20 boxes at a time.

Tommy: Junkies just What's your accent? It sounds American.

Naysan: I'm American, Persian-American. I was born in Chicago, but I was raised in Papua New Guinea in the Pacific Islands.

Josh: Wow.

Naysan: My parents moved there when I was a child, and I was there until I was 18.

Tommy: So you got that international school twang.

Naysan: I went to the international school. Yeah, I was the only American.

Tommy: American sounding American.

Naysan: No, no, no, no, no, no. I was the only one with an American accent. It wasn't a because a lot of international schools in different parts of the world are run by Americans. Okay. American curriculum. But ours wasn't. Ours was very international.

Tommy: So interesting.

Naysan: Everybody had a different accent. Like if you're Sri Lankan, you had a Sri Lankan accent. If you're Ghanaian, you had a Ghanaian accent. Yeah. Yeah.

Josh: You, you were telling me that you reckon Australians have more ingrown toenails than any other. Yeah.

Naysan: I have never seen so many ingrown toenails. I've never seen it in Papua New Guinea.

Tommy: Firstly, why have you seen them?

Naysan: Oh, my dad was a doctor and I've done a lot of medical work.

Josh: Okay.

Naysan: And in Papua New Guinea, the only ingrown toenails I would see were from Aussie expat kids.

Josh: So what do you reckon, why? We're just a bunch of gronks that come cut out?

Naysan: I don't know, you— it's weird because Australians don't always wear shoes, like they walk around in flip-flops. So at first I thought maybe it's the plastic bag sock syndrome, but maybe, you know, I don't know. I don't—

Tommy: that is a weird thing. We were told We had a toenail chat yesterday at my parents' place and my brother has these tiny little big toenails because he had both sides cut.

Naysan: Yeah, sounds familiar.

Josh: Yeah, yeah, well mine doesn't even—

Tommy: Cut them all the way down but then what I got told was they then stick this like liquid in and it stops the nail from growing.

Josh: They didn't do that bit on mine, that's why every fucking 3 months I have to pull out.

Naysan: It's disgusting, I've witnessed that operation many times.

Josh: It's actually easy.

Tommy: I just want a TV show of you guys traveling, nonstop banter about food, toenails.

Naysan: We had fun though, actually.

Tommy: Sleeping.

Naysan: We had never met before we went. Like, it's not like we were buddies and we traveled. We were kind of— I had this idea and I was talking to Collis about it a while ago, like years ago. Collis is the co-founder and CEO of Envato, the company we work for, and then at the time. And then I was in the US for a while. I had been travelling for a while. And then I come back. The day I come back, I go into the office and Collis is like, 'Come into the office, let's talk.' And he was like, 'Have you met Josh yet?' I was like, 'No.' And he's like, 'We have this new staff member named Josh. I think you guys would really get along.' He came to me with this idea. 'Remember how you wanted to travel and do this thing?' But, you know, I was like, 'Yeah.' He's like, 'You need to talk to Josh.' So then we immediately met up, talked. How many weeks later we're on a plane around the world?

Tommy: And how far into the trip did you want to finish the trip?

Naysan: I think it was a first 45 minutes. No, actually, we really, we really clicked. And in some ways it was cool that we didn't get to know each other because we didn't know each other before, because we're getting to know each other. Like, every storey was new. It wasn't like I've heard the storey again, except for my divorce story. Yeah, Josh wanted to strangle me by the end.

Josh: Also, Naysan had let— had, uh, the reason that he was in the States before he came back and found out about the trip was like a divorce tour. So because he— what does that mean?

Naysan: Well, because he, uh, I was quite depressed.

Josh: He was depressed, so he, um, you have to make it so dark.

Naysan: But he, uh, he turned in the lights for effect.

Josh: No, um, but no, he, uh, he traveled. How long did you travel? 6 months before—

Naysan: before I saw you, it was like a year.

Josh: A year?

Naysan: Yeah.

Josh: So you had a divorce, and so then you were just like going from mate to mate's place?

Naysan: It was weird. I was really sad about the divorce, and then I I realised that I needed to be around like people that knew me before I was married because everybody that I started meeting, friends that I hadn't seen since I'd been married and divorced, and they were like, you're not the same. Like, Naysan, you're, you're like, you said— because I was like the joker and everything. And they're like, God, you're just so down now. And are you okay? And so I was like, no, I got divorced, you know. And I'd storm off.

Josh: If it was a taxi driver, it didn't matter who it was, talk about my life, talk about the divorce.

Tommy: It's quite a big thing.

Naysan: Yeah, it is a bit.

Josh: It was a good storey though too.

Naysan: It was good. It was good for the first like week, and then after that I remember walking down the street in Macedonia or somewhere with Josh and he was like, "Nays, like you gotta stop talking about the divorce. It's killing me.

Josh: Like let's talk about something else." She said she was going to, um, go overseas and—

Naysan: oh, that's not—

Josh: yeah, just tell that bit or no?

Naysan: She went overseas to study and never came back.

Tommy: Yeah, pretty much.

Naysan: That's the—

Josh: yeah, yeah, it's a pretty crazy story.

Tommy: There's something about travelling that you form quite a close bond. It's like there's something about this, you're open, especially to meeting people. I definitely have been, but I've— the people I've travelled with, I've become close with.

Naysan: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, we were lucky, we hit it off straight away, and we had a lot of things that complemented each other, like strengths. Um, and I think I have to say, in the spirit of positive, you know, giving positive, uh, energy about each other— yeah, yesterday's show. I mean, I think like I was impressed. Josh was extremely young when we traveled. He hadn't travelled that much, but he really wanted to travel. And I didn't realize, because John is really fun and outgoing—

Josh: you say John?

Naysan: Sorry, I keep calling you John. Sorry, Josh.

Josh: What the fuck? It's a paid actor. He's never met Josh.

Naysan: It's oxygen. Oxygen.

Josh: Mason is a paid actor.

Naysan: I'm not the real Mason.

Josh: Are you okay?

Tommy: No. So tell me more about John.

Naysan: I've been doing that a lot lately. It's a lack of sleep. Sorry, John. I'm just kidding. So Josh was basically like— I didn't realize, because Josh is super fun and outgoing, and we're goofing around from the beginning. But then I realised he would get anxious. Like, we're going to meet someone that we were supposed to. So we were doing this series of little videos that were about different people that worked for Envato or were selling their website templates on Envato. And there's a series of these, and we were literally travelling like back to back. We're like in a country for 4 days, next country or next city, bang, bang, bang. We were just filming, filming, filming, and it was quite intense, sleeping whenever we got a chance. And you know, you have to hit the ground with enthusiasm because we're representing the company, and also we're excited to meet them, and that, you know, they're excited to meet someone from Envato.

Josh: And I had 30 Envato t-shirts.

Naysan: Yeah, that was our uniform because we didn't have time to do washing. So every day we're just like, new shirt, new shirt, new shirt.

Tommy: Right on.

Naysan: It was good. And so basically I remember thinking like, yeah, Josh is so social and everything, this is great. But once we had just met someone and then we go back to the hotel and Josh is like sitting on the edge of the bed rocking a little bit, like in deep thought. And I'm like, what's up? He's like, mate— I can't do the Aussie accent, horrendous. He's like, how do you Like, so if we meet them in the morning, are we gonna do a handshake or a hug? You went in for both. You confused me. And he starts getting all like, you know, handshake or hug? I don't know which one. He starts panicking a little bit. I'm like, oh. And so we did this little impromptu, like, like, okay, let's practice. So if I come and I'm just like, go with the flow, I don't know, like, it's not like I'm planning handshake, you know, like, I'm just like, what did we do? Read body language.

Tommy: I think we hugged.

Naysan: You did the hug.

Tommy: Yeah, bring it in, bring it in. There's, um, I've always said there's like a bunch of podcast, uh, duos, and I've— and I reckon that for any good podcast duo, one of them has to be that guy that over-internalizes the handshake.

Josh: Yeah. And yeah, or John Safran, you went for the, uh, sort of—

Tommy: yeah, homeboy.

Josh: What's up, boy? Did you do the whole like Well, yeah, Tommy sort of forced it upon John.

Tommy: Yeah, yeah.

Naysan: Was he like, "Don't touch me." He went in like that.

Tommy: And so I just went under and got it, got it to a point.

Josh: But I just don't— I was even thinking about in Pakistan how we met older ladies and stuff. I feel like I hugged or something. I feel like whatever I did was not culturally appropriate. Do you remember? I feel like maybe one time One was holding my head. I don't know if that was to keep me back.

Tommy: What is that?

Naysan: What is that? It was a sign of endearment, I think.

Tommy: Yeah, well, just grab your head.

Naysan: Josh was a celebrity when we were in Pakistan.

Tommy: Like, we got on the air.

Naysan: Yeah, we got on the airline. I look Pakistani. Like, when I'm in a, in a meeting or something and somebody's Pakistani, they always talk to me in Urdu and stuff. I'm like, I'm not Pakistani, you know. You're not? Like, no. We get on the plane.

Tommy: Can you speak it?

Naysan: No, no, no, I speak Persian. Okay, which Urdu comes from Persian. But anyway, um, I thought you get on this—

Tommy: couldn't be fact speaking Pakistani.

Naysan: I can't, I'm not Pakistani.

Tommy: Okay, yeah, no, I got it, got it.

Naysan: So we get on, we get on this flight. I remember Air Pakistan from Malaysia, and like, dodgiest fucking dodgiest flight. Like halfway through, that's another story. But anyway, we're getting, you know, and the guy at the front is kind of like, welcome, welcome.

Josh: It was in their language, obviously.

Naysan: No, no, he's saying it in English. Yeah, he was saying, yeah, in Urdu, but he wasn't really like enthusiastic. And then I was in front of Josh, I come, he's like, welcome. And then he sees Josh, welcome sir, you know, like total— took him to his seat and stuff like that.

Josh: I was the only white guy on the whole flight.

Naysan: He was the only white guy on the flight.

Tommy: So what is it? What's the novelty?

Josh: I'm fucking white.

Naysan: He's white and tall. We had people—

Tommy: what are they going to do?

Naysan: We're filming in the streets and stuff, and we had women bringing their children to take photos with Josh. We have evidence. You can put it on the— if you guys have like information, be below the podcast.

Josh: Yeah, yeah, show notes.

Naysan: It was awesome. It was cool.

Tommy: Josh, I think it's come from, uh, your friendship with Naysar.

Josh: The, uh, the long storey when you meet somebody and it's tarof.

Tommy: What's it called? Can you tell us about this?

Naysan: That's an awesome word. Okay, this is actually a lot of cultures do this. This is not just a Persian.

Josh: We noticed our, um, uh, Turkish friend doing it the other day. We got, we got free water from it, water bottles.

Naysan: And he walked off and he was like, yeah. No, so tarof, and a lot of cultures have this again, like all over the world, where it's kind of like, it's a sense of like courtesy and being polite. But let's say you come to my home and I'm with the Persian, we're a Persian family. We would bring you tea and say, please have some tea. And you're like, no, no, I'm fine. No, no, we insist, have some tea. No, no, really, I'm fine. No, you must have some tea, we insist. No, no, really, I'm fine. Whether you really want it or not is irrelevant. That interaction of, you know, saying please have some tea and also not taking it straight away is called tarof.

Josh: Okay, right.

Naysan: So it's a great hard to get. Yeah, but it's— and so like, it's— it can backfire too in certain cultures. And, you know, like in, in Australia, I think like if you want it, you'll say yes, and if you don't— and my grandparents on my mom's side moved when they left to the US, they landed and their neighbours came by and were like, "Welcome," and stuff, "Come over for dinner tonight." So my grandparents got, you know, dressed, and my grandma in her best jewelry, my grandfather, 3-piece suit. They go next door and the family's already eating in their shorts and t-shirts. They're like, "Come and join us," you know? And they're like, "No, no, really, we're not hungry." They were starving, right? They had not eaten all day. They're starving. They're like, okay, well, just like sit down and, you know, until we finish. And they were just sitting there very politely, stomach growling and stuff. This family eating, trying to talk to them. They didn't really speak English. And when they left, they're like, how rude, you know, trying to take it in a sense. I mean, now of course they're like, I get it.

Josh: They get the leather jacket story.

Naysan: Leather jacket, yes. A friend of mine offered someone a leather jacket. Like, he was like, oh, I love your jacket. It's like, it's yours, it's yours, take it. Really? And he took it. And it was an expensive leather jacket.

Tommy: So where's this from? Because did they not establish the flaws within this, uh, you know?

Naysan: No, because it works if everyone toddles. Okay, it's when people don't toddle. So in a culture where everyone does that, yeah, it's just the etiquette, you know? Like, if you're dying of thirst and you come over and it's like, oh, it's hot outside, please have some water. No, no, really, I'm fine. No, I just have some water, it's hot. No, no, really, it's fine. Have some water. Okay, thank you. But because it's from your hands, you know? Like the language, Persian language is also extremely flowery and just like full of, you know, encouragement. And some of the words when you translate them directly or the sayings are very quite graphic, you know? Like, "May my life be a sacrifice." You know, "Thank you so much.

Tommy: May my life be a sacrifice." I just wanted a fucking Diet Coke, bro. I could imagine that would be hell for you, Josh. Like if you are anxious about a, handshake or a hug. It's like, and then who says who's going to stop, who's going to stop this tariff? Who wins it?

Josh: Well, this is why, like me, I just pay for everything when it comes to going out. But when with Naysan, it's a constant, uh, we'll both have our cards out and we're fighting for the, for the bill.

Naysan: That's a typical Persian, uh, who pays the bill.

Tommy: But so who actually wants to pay the bill?

Naysan: Probably nobody.

Josh: But you have to know, your whole thing is like part of the tarof thing is you got to be happy with that.

Naysan: Yeah, you got to be sincere. And you know, the idea is also that things always come back full circle. It's like, so you pay for the dinner this time, and next time they'll pay for the dinner. Yeah, things always come—

Tommy: we've all got that one mate though, that you pay for the dinner.

Naysan: There's always the dude, oh, I left my wallet. Yeah, right.

Tommy: Every time. Is this a religious thing or a—

Naysan: no, no, purely cultural culture.

Josh: So what's the difference between Persian culture and Iranian culture.

Naysan: So Iran— so Persia was an empire. Nowadays when they say Persia, it means the nation of Iran. It's pretty much the same thing. Iran is made up of a lot of different cultures. I mean, there's a lot of Turkish influence as well. A lot of Persians, um, maybe don't like to hear that, or do like— I don't know. But there's a huge— I think it's something like 45% of Iranians are of Turkish descent as well. There's Afghanis as well. But Persian culture is more kind of like the culture of Iran, and it's a term they use for the language. Although now in Persian, for example, we say Farsi as the language. Yeah, for the language. But now in places like Los Angeles and other places where there's a large Persian population, you'll see signs saying Farsi. Technically it's incorrect. It's like writing Español when it should be— like when you speak English, you don't say, do you speak Español? You say, do you speak Spanish? It's kind of the same thing.

Josh: You don't So Farsi is the Persian way of saying Persian.

Naysan: Exactly. Okay. So, and so in that area of the world, there's most of the countries are Arab in descent, like, or ethnically they're Arabs. So like you might be from Iraq, but you're an Arab. You're from Iran. No, I'm a Persian. So it's, and it's a sore spot for a lot of Persians. There's this desire to kind of differentiate and it is quite different. It's, There's obviously similarities in religion and other things, um, that because of trade and religious, um, like certain religions spreading, there's certain similarities, but then there's also, uh, stark differences. And Persians really, you know, make sure they differentiate themselves. And not necessarily only like, it's not a prejudice thing, but it's like, it's something different. It's like, it's not like saying, you know, 'Oh, you're Japanese? Do you guys speak Chinese?' It's like, 'No, it's a different language.' Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Josh: I asked him if he was Arab. I know that very well that he's not, but he, he'll— you raise your voice sometimes.

Tommy: Yeah, it's like when I had to call my Italian mate— no, my Sicilian mate Greek. Oh no, Italian mate Greek.

Naysan: Yeah, different, different language. You know, all cultures have overlap though.

Josh: Yeah. And so why do you call yourself Persian and not Iranian?

Naysan: Because I've never been to Iran, and Iran is the the nation, and I don't have an Iranian passport, but Persian is my ethnicity.

Josh: Okay. Is that— is there other examples of that in the world, or is it a unique— like, what's the equivalent in the world?

Naysan: Um, you could say— I mean, this is a bit—

Josh: what about a Canadian saying I'm North American?

Naysan: No, because— can— yeah, you could do that, but Canadians, like, not an ethnic group, it's a nation. Like I mean, there's—

Josh: you, you could bring up Israel because I have no idea.

Naysan: Yeah, that's complex. But you could say, for example, um, like, uh, an Iraqi is Arab. So if someone's parents or grandparents were from Iraq, they might not really feel associated with the nation, but they're Arab ethnically.

Josh: So, so do you find that if someone says, oh, you're Iranian, do you find that sort of— do you have pushback on it?

Naysan: Not really. Like, I mean, I— it depends on why they're saying it. I just say, actually, I'm American because that's my citizenship, but, um, I'm ethnically Persian.

Josh: And is part of the pushback because of, you know, the Islamic Revolution and all that sort of thing?

Naysan: And yeah, there's definitely been historically— I mean, you know, 1979, there was an Islamic Revolution in Iran. So that, uh, because of the Islamic Revolution, there was a lot of people killed. But I'm a religious minority in Iran called the Baha'is or Baha'i faith. And a lot of Baha'is were rounded up and killed and persecuted and continue to be persecuted. So that obviously is a sore spot for many people. And it's not just the Baha'is that were persecuted. A lot of minorities were persecuted and even like people of different political beliefs like communists as well. And so a lot of different minorities were persecuted, but a lot of people like to make the differentiation nowadays because they might not want to be associated with the Islamic Republic of Iran, so they say they're Persian.

Tommy: Fuck, we've had it good here, haven't we? Australia— like, I was thinking yesterday, I was driving down the street I grew up in, just thinking this— for my, for my entire life, and it'll probably be for most of my son's life here in Australia, there has been nothing. Yeah, that we've encountered.

Naysan: I mean, there's prejudice, but it's not like No, people getting shot.

Tommy: Well, yeah, I mean, my grandfather was born in 1909, and so he was still alive when Einstein was in existence.

Naysan: Yeah.

Tommy: But so like there was some real pivotal times in history that we have not been there for.

Naysan: Yeah.

Tommy: And so we're pretty— it's pretty relaxed. I have a sense like in Australia, I'm like, fuck, something bad gonna happen? Like, are we gonna see a downtime?

Josh: It feels like it. Yeah, I constantly am like—

Naysan: I have a lot of faith in Australia. I think it's one of the most amazing countries in the world. I mean, what could—

Josh: what's the most likely thing to go wrong?

Tommy: I don't even know.

Naysan: The sad reality though is it's all perspective, right? So like we're saying, yeah, it's great, nothing's gonna happen. But then if you talk to an Aboriginal, they're like, what are you talking about? The catastrophe has already happened and continues to go on. So It depends on, you know, where you're at in society. Yeah, as well. So yeah, but I mean, in Iran it was, you know, situation where Baha'is, uh, during the time of the Shah, there was some prejudice. And if somebody was maybe a fundamentalist—

Josh: what does that mean? Sorry, the Shah thing?

Naysan: The Shah was the king of Iran. He was the ruler of the nation before the revolution. Yeah, the Islamic Revolution happened and then they kicked the Shah out. But in that time, like, you know, didn't matter really what religion you were, everybody just went to work, kind of like in Australia. Nobody asks what religion you are. You know, cert— of course it doesn't mean people are without prejudice, but, um, you know, you imagine like you're going to work every day with your buddies and stuff, um, and your, your neighbors, you wave to them every day, you, you come home from work, and then the next day suddenly, uh, or in the middle of the night, you know, guys kick down your door with machine guns and then drag you away, and this is the last time you see your kids and your wife and They don't know whatever happened to you. You've never— you've gone missing. And basically many of them were killed. And it was the neighbours that were like, you know, no, no, it's them, they're Baha'is, you know. So I mean, and you know, we've seen this in Rwanda, we've seen this in Nazi Germany. This kind of thing happens in a lot of places. Um, it's sad that it keeps— it still happens today. And hopefully people can just get over it a little bit and realise that we're all the same.

Josh: Are you much of a news junkie nowadays?

Naysan: Not as much. Yeah, I used to work for CNN for a bit, and, um, I was—

Tommy: fact news—

Naysan: I was addicted to it. It was a very— it was a different CNN then as well, but it was very, you know, it was addictive because you didn't want to miss— like, you'd get off your shift and you had to go to your next shift, and you didn't want to miss a beat.

Tommy: What'd you do there?

Naysan: So I did different things. By the time I left, I was a producer for international Um, was the term fake news actually around then?

Tommy: Were people using it? No, no, Trump wasn't in power then.

Naysan: It was, it was also like, I, I kind of left when, um, CNN got taken over by Time Warner, and so the nature of the work was very different. Also different departments, like CNN International, which is what you watch in Australia, um, is different to what they watch in the US. In the US, it's CNN Domestic. So, it depends on who you're talking to. And there are also— news also depends on just who wants to decide what is important, that's one. And then the other thing is whether you can actually get somebody to share information on the ground. Like Sierra Leone, for example, went through a vicious civil war for a long time, but we couldn't get any journalists in there, and the ones who were there were killed. And then, how can you report stuff when there's nobody in there to report stuff? So— It's a, it's a combination of things.

Josh: Our mate Conspiracy Jimmy says that Anderson Cooper is actually part of the CIA. Have you, have you heard about this?

Tommy: Anderson Cooper, who's that?

Naysan: He's like, he's a CNN reporter with white hair, very popular.

Tommy: Yeah, I can imagine. I mean, there's part of the CIA.

Naysan: Well, it's known that one of the best, you know, like, it's common practise for intelligence agencies to use international aid workers and journalism as a cover. But I'm not saying—

Josh: I'm just saying, Nathan's always wanted to be a federal agent or something. Have you?

Naysan: No, I almost joined the FBI a long time ago.

Josh: Really? You got to talk about—

Tommy: what do you mean you nearly joined?

Naysan: I was close.

Tommy: I did the training. Yeah, I got through.

Naysan: I never got in. Or did I? No, no, I didn't. Um, but no, it was interesting because they really needed people. And yeah, a friend of mine that I worked with at CNN had a friend at the FBI that was saying they were desperate for people and you should apply and have an interview and stuff.

Josh: Was the, um, East Timor— you spent how long in East Timor?

Naysan: I lived in East Timor for a year. Um, that was interesting time. I, um, yeah, Tommy's just choking. Sorry, sorry, guys. Is it the comment?

Josh: Yeah, it's about your timing.

Naysan: Flashback. How are we for time, guys?

Josh: No, it's absolutely fine.

Tommy: Jesus, how are you?

Naysan: No, I'm worried, like, uh, you know.

Josh: No, we have— oh, you want to try that?

Naysan: No, no, I don't know.

Josh: I was at the East Timor thing. Explain what you're doing there.

Naysan: Um, at the time I was married and my wife had studied, uh, international development work, and she studied in London. We were living in the UK in Brighton, and we wanted to— she wanted to get like on-the-ground experience and not be in an office job in somewhere like New York or London. So we decided to go to East Timor. I'd been following East Timor quite a bit when I worked at CNN, even though I wasn't covering it. I was very interested in it because it reminded me of Papua New Guinea a lot, and it was fascinating what was happening there. So as soon as my wife graduated from her degree, we jumped on a plane and moved to East Timor. We didn't have jobs. We were fortunate enough to— we had a friend who was living at the Baha'i Center there. There was a Baha'i Center. And so we went in and crashed with him and we got jobs within the first month that we were there. I created my own programme to teach video production to local Timorese, and we tried to do positive content in the spirit of positivity because there was a lot of negativity going on. We tried to create short little videos of Timorese, young Timorese that were doing positive things. For their community and not related to their jobs, just spending all their extra time helping their communities.

Josh: So how do you get like a grant or how do you even approach that?

Naysan: I mean, it's a lot of like, you know, meeting different people, but a lot of the agencies there really wanted to do positive work. And so it was a matter of basically I kind of looked at the area for a while and I didn't want to just do something. I wanted to see what the needs were. And I realised media was really lacking. And the lack of media and news and journalism can actually cause revolutions and massacres. It's— it can be quite dangerous. Like, if everything is Chinese whispers or just hearsay, you could have a lot more violence. And I felt, let's try and get something like this done. So I was passionate about it, and I started talking to heads of different not-for-profits there and saying, this is a programme I want to do. I want to train young Timorese creating like videos, but I want the training not to be theoretical. I want us by the end of the programme to have made these short videos.

Tommy: That's cool.

Naysan: So yeah, one, uh, at that time Plan International, um, decided yeah, this is a great idea, and they took it on.

Tommy: What, what kind of cameras are you using over there?

Naysan: That at that time we used the Sony— what was it, the Z1s?

Tommy: Yeah, like Handycam thing.

Josh: Yeah, yeah, that was sort of HDV.

Naysan: Yeah, it was the So this would have been what, MiniDV? Yeah.

Josh: What year?

Naysan: That was '08.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: God, you've lived, lived in a few places, haven't you?

Naysan: Yeah, I've lived in— I calculated because I'm applying for Australian citizenship eventually, um, I've lived in 10 different countries.

Tommy: Wow. And how many countries have you gone to? Have you counted that?

Naysan: 50 to 60.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: I mean, what point do you stop counting? Yeah.

Naysan: Yeah, we had a little competition with my sister when I was, uh, just finished university. My older sister came home one day, we were like having breakfast, and she was like, how many countries have you been to? And I was like, I don't know. We both started counting, and she's like, oh. And then she comes home from work with a map, two maps, and she's like, right. She puts a map on her wall and then one on my wall, and she gives me a little box of pins, and she's like, put a pin in every single city and country you've been to. And the rule is you can't just have been through the airport, like you have to spend a few hours, left the airport, gone and had a meal, talked to people, seen the streets or whatever. So yeah, so that was a long time ago though, but I think right now it's probably 50 to 60.

Josh: Having a meal whenever we're travelling and eating nice, like you're a bit of like a bit of a drama queen, don't you think? Was I? Just when it comes to food. Just like even before you were concerned because you're like, I need to eat something.

Naysan: Yeah, I get really like— I just— my blood was dropping. I was like, oh my God, I need to eat.

Tommy: What'd you eat?

Naysan: Um, I had one of those little— from the grocery store, one of those little pizza, little cheese and bacon.

Tommy: You should have a guy eating one of those walking across the road the other day, remember?

Josh: Yes, that's right. And I was like, what's the deal with that? But yeah, Naysan has gone up to a McDonald's employee and complained about his dry Quarter Pounder. Do you remember that in Barcelona?

Naysan: I went 3 times. Yeah, but it was bad. I mean, it was— yeah, I was hangry at the time. I was so hungry and angry, but it was ridiculous. It was like eating this, um, it wasn't even dry. It was like eating wood. It was like, this has got it.

Tommy: They should stuff that system in place.

Josh: Nay Sam will end up at every fucking kitchen. If we go to a restaurant, before you know it, he's in with the chefs talking to them.

Tommy: Why? Is this something you identify cooking?

Josh: Really?

Naysan: You want to keep it on the flame that long? No, no, no, I do like cooking.

Tommy: You agree with what Josh says?

Josh: Yeah. What do you think? Like, why do you think that is?

Naysan: You mean I'm friends with them?

Josh: Yeah. Well, you just—

Naysan: yeah, I love— yeah. And I, I think sometimes we go to restaurants and we just like eat and walk out, and I like to thank them and let them know, because you always see the staff that you work with, but you don't always see the guys in the kitchen. Putting stuff together. So I generally try and say thank you, goodbye. What's that face?

Josh: It's just a funny, funny concept.

Naysan: And also, we go to this Afghani restaurant here sometimes, Persian Flavors.

Tommy: Yeah.

Naysan: And, you know, the guy's lovely. And I remember going from the beginning when him and his wife were there and working really hard, and they expanded. And I just always wanted to thank them and say hi.

Tommy: And it's nice. It's called, um, just being a nice guy, Josh.

Naysan: Yeah, I know, it's strange being personable and stepping outside your comfort zone.

Josh: It's pretty next level, don't you agree? It's pretty like you stand out. It stands out.

Naysan: Well, I'm not doing it to try and stand out. I mean, you're— of encouragement.

Tommy: It's not something that you'd find the guy who's awkward about the handshakes doing. He's not in the car.

Naysan: No, he's out the door. He's in the car.

Josh: But I'm interested when I get— when Nay Sun comes out, I go, so what was their story? What was their deal?

Naysan: Yeah, yeah, I give him the whole lowdown.

Josh: He finds it really I just don't want to have to necessarily have the interaction. But we have here, uh, it says eggplant meal on it.

Tommy: Yeah, we got these cans in front of us. You guys went down to Coles, was it?

Josh: No, we didn't.

Naysan: No, I got this from a Persian grocery store in Sydney. So you brought— during our travels, one of the things we tried, uh, Josh tried as well, was Persian food, which, um, it's starting to get more and more popular here. You start to find restaurants. And one of Josh's favourite things on the menu is called kashkeh bademjun, which is this type of eggplant dish. It's not the same as baba ganoush. Baba ganoush is common in a lot of Arab countries and in Israel.

Tommy: What is the difference?

Naysan: This has got— it uses this kind of cheese curd to flavour it and has fried onion in it as well.

Tommy: Yeah.

Naysan: And different places make it in different ways. We've had some places which were an Italian restaurant owned by Persians.

Josh: It was called Giuseppe's, I think.

Naysan: And they're California, and Persian food was phenomenal. It was outside of LA.

Josh: Yeah, there's a Persian kebab called koobideh, which is— they take like mince and they put onion all in it. Naysan's got IBS, he shouldn't be eating any.

Tommy: Well, you said to me before we started, I can't eat this.

Naysan: Why?

Tommy: I thought you said I can't eat it.

Naysan: No, I didn't say that at all. I just— I've never eaten it before. So I've never eaten it from a can.

Tommy: Okay.

Naysan: I was in a Persian grocery store in Sydney with my younger sister, and I saw this. I was like, oh my God, Josh. Yeah, because he loves it. So I was like, I gotta get it.

Tommy: So you've come from Sydney, you've had to lug this around.

Naysan: I've lugged this around.

Josh: So many dumb things. What about the— what about the Papua New Guinean, uh, the arrows?

Naysan: Don't bring up the arrows. No, please, for me.

Josh: Go.

Naysan: I carried these arrows from villages that I got.

Tommy: Like arrows?

Naysan: Like actual arrows. Arrows are the length of this table. And, um, and you know, they're bamboo and they're intricate. Like, the head of the arrow is this long and they're carved and painted. And the paint isn't like dipping it in paint, it's like through flowers and stuff. Beautiful arrows. I carried these around the world for like 10 years every time I moved, and I would display them on my wall. Like, I'd to fan them. And I remember like losing them somehow and not knowing where they were until one day I was visiting my grandma in Oklahoma. She lives in Oklahoma. And she's like, "Naysan, you left this tube thing here once." And I was like, "What? My arrows!" And they're in this tube that I had made. I couldn't find a proper pipe or tube, so I'd like put all this cardboard together, made this awesome hardcore tube. I take this— I'm still traveling, go around the world with this thing. Come back to Australia, a domestic flight. I land in Sydney. My flight from Sydney to Melbourne, I took Tiger Air. I never fly them anymore. They really disappointed me. Tiger Air, if you're listening, seriously.

Tommy: Yeah, he's a big listener.

Naysan: And I kept telling them, guys, like, I want to take this on the plane with me. They didn't know what I was like. It's artifacts. They're like, no, no, it's going to be fine. Like, put it in fragile, we'll take care of it. They don't like throw it in You'll even watch. So I go to the plane, they take it from me, hand it down to the guy, like, "See, we're doing a good job." They put it in this, like, hangar. We land in Melbourne. I'm standing at the conveyor belt, and this flat pancake tube comes out with tyre marks all over it around the conveyor belt, and I'm like, "Oh my God." And I wrote to them, and they're like, "No, like, read the disclaimer, and by the way, why were you taking arrows on a flight?" You know? Yeah, real, real.

Tommy: So the arrows broke.

Naysan: The arrows were all kind of— because it's bamboo, they were flattened, so it's tonnes of fibers, so it's really hard to fix. I still have them.

Josh: So we have this. Yeah, we can eat this. So do you reckon I, uh, shake it? No, the thing that I need—

Naysan: a plate though.

Tommy: Yeah, I think we should probably—

Josh: where is he going to get a plate from?

Tommy: He knows where to get a plate from.

Josh: Okay, the, um, interesting thing about this is it actually says that it's, uh, it was manufactured in Iran.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: Which I believe that there are trade restrictions, embargoes with Australia. I think so.

Naysan: Oh, I don't know.

Josh: Oh, maybe not.

Tommy: Ingredients: eggplant, garlic, mint, soya oil, salt, turmeric.

Naysan: Oh, no onion.

Tommy: Yeah, I thought— well, that's the, that's the English. Amazing. Um, and then there's no sugar. That's what I'm, I'm pumped about.

Naysan: No sugar.

Tommy: I'm trying not to. I'm being— thanks, mate. I'm being naughty eating this bread today, but it's flatbread. It's a bit—

Naysan: it's squished.

Josh: Yeah, so we'll wait.

Naysan: We have two types.

Josh: Yeah, so why did you get two types?

Naysan: Just because I saw this and she had just made it and it was hot and fresh. I was like, that looks amazing. Yeah, and this is what's called pocketless pita. Which means like this pita you tear apart and you can open it. That's what they put falafel or shawarma in. Yeah, yeah. And this one is pakhlis, you tear it but there's no—

Josh: Thanks, Mr. 97. Okay, so we'll open this up. We'll just do one.

Naysan: I brought just, just in case it's really good. I'm not sure if it's good or not. It could be a thing.

Josh: Let's try and not get this always about a wet plate.

Naysan: You better not get it.

Josh: Here, you do it, Nathan.

Tommy: Here we go.

Josh: We don't want it near the RØDECaster.

Tommy: Uh, here we go.

Naysan: Yeah, one shot.

Tommy: So he's pulled the pin off.

Naysan: It's come all the way from Iran, so So I guess that's—

Tommy: Can you get a knife? A fork or something?

Naysan: Should we do this one instead?

Tommy: No no no! We'll keep this one going.

Josh: So what's happened is he got one of those like cat food clip tuna things.

Tommy: The amount of times I've had this happen to me...

Josh: It's undesigned. Ridiculous. And it's probably too given its don't even try. Can I try and smell it at least? Let's have a look so um...

Tommy: Smells in that Josh loves to smell things. Oh I can smell it!

Josh: It smells good should we warm it up a little bit or not?

Naysan: I think that's not a bad idea but don't do it now. The can.

Josh: Yeah, it was that.

Tommy: Um, all right, do you want me to—

Naysan: oh wow, don't even, uh— oh, that's—

Josh: you're a loose unit.

Tommy: I'm all good.

Naysan: I'm like, should we get under the table?

Josh: Canned food for some reason sort of scares me a little bit, dude.

Tommy: I was looking at some canned—

Naysan: careful, there's a lot of oil.

Tommy: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Naysan: Isn't all Spam canned?

Josh: Okay.

Tommy: Oh, this looks good.

Josh: What's at the bottom? Oh, that's the, um—

Naysan: so it's eggplant that's been mashed up Obviously.

Josh: Okay, let's, let's try some pocketless, Peter, or I will go pocketless, I guess, or whatever's open.

Naysan: Let's do this one.

Josh: Okay, what's your mic technique, Nathan?

Tommy: Yeah, I'm sorry.

Josh: That's okay. All right, a little bread for you. So here we go. Thank you.

Tommy: So yeah, no, it's okay.

Josh: You can watch it.

Naysan: I'm gonna try it.

Tommy: No, it's okay. What? I'm fine.

Naysan: No, you must.

Tommy: No, I'm okay.

Naysan: I really insist. Okay, that was, that was a tough one. It was perfect. Really well done. Good. Really well.

Tommy: I really wanted it.

Josh: I think it was a bit panto. Uh, Mr. No7, you can come and try it. It'd be hilarious. There you go, have a, have a little dip in there. This reminds me of— do you remember, um, Good Morning Australia where they had what's his name? Remember there was the guy who was, um, you gotta actually grab it.

Naysan: That's just the oil.

Josh: Yeah, sorry.

Tommy: Yeah, you gotta— yeah, I've put some.

Naysan: Do this, do this.

Josh: All right, this Okay, so I mean, this isn't— this is a Tuesday, not Fat Fridays, but that's okay. We're, um, let's have a taste.

Naysan: It's not what I thought, but it's all right. Heated up would be better.

Tommy: Out of 10?

Naysan: 6.

Tommy: It's very— in comparison to the other ones you've had?

Naysan: No, it's like 2. I don't think it can— like 3 maybe.

Josh: All right, do you reckon so? Does your mum make this, Nayson?

Naysan: Yes.

Tommy: Yeah, is this like a— I wonder what the equivalent Australian dish is. So just a white boy that's grown up in Australia, what do you think that is? Pie.

Josh: Meat pie.

Tommy: Meat pie? Like, uh, toasted sandwiches, toasties.

Naysan: How would this be a—

Tommy: I'm just trying to think about something from my childhood that makes me think about— nothing's cultural for Australians.

Josh: What about like the, you know, the things?

Naysan: Well, people don't eat this as a meal.

Josh: This is like—

Naysan: usually just had—

Josh: can I have some more bread, please?

Naysan: Here.

Josh: Oh, thank you. Uh, that's one thing, like, Naysan is used to looking after me. Don't you feel—

Naysan: I'm a feeder, apparently. I never knew that term until Bree, uh, said it.

Josh: Yeah, when she was like, you know, on a diet and you were just trying to slam her with food.

Naysan: I can't help myself.

Josh: But, um, uh, what— can you talk about what your mum does? You're allowed to?

Naysan: So how you cook?

Josh: No, no, no, no, no. What she does for work. It's interesting.

Naysan: CIA is an Uh, so my— no, my mom worked— I mean, she's retired now, but she worked for a not-for-profit which worked with the Australian government in helping refugees that have come through the system get placed into their homes. And my mom lives in Canberra, so they would— she would, you know, get assigned like X number of refugee families or individuals depending, and then she would work with them and everything from help, you know, finding an apartment for them making sure there was a fridge and an oven and everything was ready for them to come in. And then she would come. So like, let's say a family came from Sudan and there was like a husband, wife, and 3 kids. She'd make sure that they were enrolled in their English classes, they were getting all the things they needed, they were— if they had suffered trauma, they were getting, you know, therapy for that. And so it was all kind of like a liaison for that family to, to work with them. Everything from picking them up from the airport. Wow. To, uh, putting, you know, giving them the keys to their home or apartment. And so she's an interpreter and now she's a— yeah, and she's also an interpreter. She was a certified interpreter, so she would, um, she goes to like Nauru and she'd go separate to her job. She would go, you know, take time off and then go to Nauru or Manus Island or Darwin and work as an interpreter for the Persians that would come.

Josh: So basically people from Iran Yeah, would—

Tommy: how, how would they—

Josh: how'd they get—

Naysan: that's a very controversial topic too.

Josh: Oh really?

Naysan: Yeah, it's— there's a lot of, uh, controversy in it, but basically how they got here. Yeah, because, you know, there's the, the refugees my mom worked with through the, um, agency was all people that had come through the United Nations and through what's generally considered legal means. Um, but then the ones that would come into Nauru and Manus and Darwin and other areas are what is often considered in Australia as illegal means. So they would get on boats from Indonesia and come, you know, sad because many of them died and they were smuggled basically like smugglers.

Josh: Isn't it that whole thing where it's like—

Naysan: it's a controversial topic because it's a very complex topic because it's—

Josh: I remember as a kid being in SRC and going to a state SRC conference, Student Representative Council. And they were saying that it's not illegal to seek asylum, right? So, but I get what you're— yeah, yeah, I mean, I'm—

Naysan: that's not a term I'm coming up with. It's something that is so controversial, like it's in the news.

Josh: So how did the, the unconventional people get here?

Naysan: So many of them come on flights from Iran to Malaysia, and then they go— they make their way from Malaysia to Indonesia, and then they go to some, you know, coastal towns. And then they fill up a boat, and basically as many people as possible get on the boat and then make their way to Australian waters. And then they would actually give them— the captain of the ship, they would give him a— it was usually like a fisherman from Indonesia who had a boat, but they would choose the worst boats because they knew that once it was confiscated, the boat is gone. They're not going to choose an expensive boat. So it's usually a boat that was falling apart, and they would give them a satellite radio. So as soon as they hit Australian waters, they would often call the Coast Guard to just come and get them because it's— they're in the middle of nowhere.

Tommy: Yeah.

Naysan: And it's a very— you know, you don't realize. My mom has gone in with the control center, and she was like, you know, it's really like finding a needle in a haystack. Like, all— when something like that— when they get a call, all boats have to turn to try and find this, this little ship.

Tommy: So there's a lot of resources that—

Naysan: a lot of resources that go into, and they can spend all night trying to find it. It's literally this little dot, and you don't know, like, maybe it's sunk, maybe it hasn't. Maybe it's— it's quite—

Tommy: yeah, it's, it's hard because you— the per— the people on the boat, what they're doing, they wouldn't be doing if they had another option. And so it's so hard for—

Josh: well, Naysan has interesting— like, I feel like you've got an interesting perspective because I feel like I say that shit, and then you sort of like, ah, a lot of these people are criminals.

Naysan: Yeah, it's not— I wouldn't say it's my perspective, but I mean, it's— there's always a mixed bag of types of people that are, you know, seeking refugee status. I mean, um, you know, there's, there's, there's one, you know, you, you're, you're fleeing persecution, obviously, is the main one. And then there's also people that are just like, they want a better life, or, you know, for their kids. Maybe they weren't being persecuted, but they feel they live in a society that they don't agree with, or, you know, they might not be chased by the government, you know, soldiers or whatever, but they just don't agree with her, or they just want a better life for their children. But then there are, you know, it is often— and I mean, this is, you know, I'm gonna say this, but then people might get upset with this— but there are criminal elements involved as well, like where somebody might have murdered somebody and then they need to get away fast, and then they go through through these methods to get away. So, there's a, it's a mixed bag, you know, there's always different types of people, which is also why it's hard for countries to try and process them, because they have to do interviews and figure out, like, is this person's storey legit or not? Is this person a criminal? Could they be running from a crime they committed? And it's hard, because it's hard to deal with, if the person, let's say, is genuinely seeking political assignment, asylum, and their life is on the line, you can't ask the country that they've left, is this guy a criminal? They'll be like, yes, of course he is, you know, like he's killed somebody or something. So it's kind of— it's a very difficult, difficult situation for all involved.

Tommy: If you were a producer at CNN— I know you, based on your experience of being a producer at CNN, what do you think the news here in Australia, how do you think they're selling this I mean, it obviously depends on the channel and stuff.

Naysan: I have to say I'm a huge fan of SBS. I think SBS is one of the best government channels I've ever seen in my life. I think it's phenomenal. I love their, their take on things. And of course their news takes storeys from different news agencies, and I love the fact that they show international films. They have this global perspective. And I think international—

Josh: for Tommy's watched a lot of the SBS international late night ones. Yeah.

Naysan: They do show some great films. I know why— I know what Josh is referring to.

Josh: The breasts. It's called the French films, guys. But remember, like, growing up, that was a big SBS flicking it across on SBS. You would commonly see naked. Yeah, a bit of nudity.

Naysan: Yes, yes, there's a lot of that in certain cinemas.

Josh: Yeah, French, the European—

Naysan: Europeans.

Josh: Yeah.

Naysan: Um, oh really? Never happened? Yeah, no, but, um— I think what's important about news is to show as many different perspectives, and I think that's always tricky because you have limited time. And as a society as well, we've gone less and less into looking at things in depth. We want just instant, give us a 30-second, 1-minute spiel, and then we're okay, like we know about the situation in Syria, or we know about the refugee crisis in such and such. And headlines, we don't have— yeah, the headline mentality. We don't have as much in-depth reporting anymore, unfortunately.

Josh: As someone who has spent a lot of time in Australia but not born here, is Australians— are Australians as racist as we think they might be? What's your vibe?

Naysan: I think— I mean, obviously it depends on a person's, uh, experience. Like, I, with my look, someone else like who looks, you know, maybe a Sudanese might have a different experience, and a Vietnamese, and it depends who you're running into. Generally, I will say that, uh, when I lived in Papua New Guinea, in school, the people we always got into fights with and that were the kids that were racist were always Australian. We always had problems with Australian, to the point that I thought I would never live in Australia. But now that I live here, and it's— and I'm sure, you know, culture and society changes. And I'd passed through Australia many times and experienced racism, not to myself but to others, like I would see on the street. Um, this is like going back years, like, you know, 10, 20 years ago. But I think in the last 10 years, at least since I've, I've been in Australia 10 years, I feel like Australia is pretty awesome, at least My experiences have been great, and I feel people— Australians are very, um, honest about things. I think there's certain things that they say here that, for example, if they're in the US, people would say, 'That's racist.' But there's a sort of innocence often about the racism sometimes. Like, I've had people say, like, you know, um, yeah, 'You don't mind me asking, like, what is your look?' or whatever, you know, like things like that where and fucking good looking. That's what other places— or, that's a strange name. What do you mean? And, you know, other people mean like, what do you mean strange? Your name is strange, you know. Why is your name the standard, not mine? You know. And there's a lot of ways you can look at stuff, but I think you can tell someone's attitude in, in the way they ask and not trying to be, you know, not trying to take a stab at you. So I don't know, I, I've really had a great experience in Australia and I really love it. And There have been times where I've gone into a shop and, you know, I wasn't— you know, the vibe wasn't the best from the person, uh, helping me until I start talking and they hear I have an American accent. And then they're like, oh, you're from the States, you're American. And it changes everything suddenly. And it's like, what do you— you know, but, you know, it's like, oh, why didn't you come and ask if I needed help? I've been in the shop for like 15 minutes. Yeah, you know, bias.

Tommy: Unconscious bias.

Naysan: Yeah.

Josh: Is the, um, the, the traveling. I feel like when we were at airports, we would joke that, uh, you were sort of, you know, post-9/11, uh, people would sometimes give us extra looks. Do you actually feel that? Like, I know we joke about it.

Naysan: No, no, actually I've never had issues with, uh, with that anywhere. Yeah, I've never had issues with that at all, surprisingly. But like when we're in London We landed from Pakistan in London and Josh had grown a beard.

Josh: I've seen a really sweet beard.

Naysan: He looked dodgy. And, you know, I was like sure that I might get hassled or Josh was kind of like, let's go in separate lines or whatever.

Tommy: The problem with the beard was he looked like someone that could have fled Australia and he's trying to blend in. That was the problem with it. It was huge.

Josh: It did, yeah, it was quite a funny neck beard.

Naysan: But in London, like, I was just kind of let through. Like, the guy asked me, be like, oh, how long are you here for? I was like, 4 days. He's like, okay. And then I, I'm waiting and waiting, and I look, and Josh has got these 5 federal agents around him. Is this the questioning?

Josh: This was, uh, no, they— the federal police just interviewed me, and then when I went to the US, that was when the secondary screenings started. Yeah.

Naysan: And there's something like a number of times you have to travel before it gets taken off.

Josh: It was like 7 domestic flights, I think, until it went off. As someone who's religious, what's the Australian sort of spin on faith when you tell someone you're Baha'i?

Tommy: Yeah, I could imagine they say, what the bloody hell's that?

Naysan: Yeah, um, it's Baha'i.

Tommy: Yeah, well, I hadn't heard of Baha'i until I met Josh.

Naysan: Yeah, so I— it's interesting, like, I think Australians I mean, generally my experience with Australians are that they're not religious, and there's a little bit of— there's probably more of my experiences with people just in passing, not like once you get to know someone and you talk about it. It's very interesting. I think Australians find it interesting in a kind of matter-of-fact way and information way, but often in passing there is often this kind of condescending, oh, you're religious, oh 'You've been had, you poor thing,' kind of like, there's a little bit of that kind of prejudice, I think, in that way, or feel sorry for you way of religion in general, which is also understandable. Religion has caused a lot of disunity and problems and conflict, and I completely understand that. But I think fortunately, people who have heard of Bahá'í look at it in quite positive light. So I've been fortunate when I come across people, oh, Baha'is, I know about that, or whatever. And you know, there's a temple I went to in India that's a Baha'i temple, different things. So it's been positive generally, but I personally love talking about like the meaning of life and religion, and I don't really mind it. I had one person though ask me about Baha'i, and then I started explaining, and they're like, okay, listen, like you don't need to preach to me. And I was like, you just Really? I think they were just super paranoid. In Australia, in Melbourne, yeah. Um, but it was more like, I think they were just—

Josh: Did you take the pamphlet back?

Naysan: No, no, it was—

Josh: wow, we've never had someone—

Tommy: I mean, if I was to ask someone what, what a religion is, or yeah, as in what is that religion, it's a complex question that probably needs a long-form.

Naysan: You do hear a lot of people saying, I'm not religious, 'But I'm spiritual,' you know.

Josh: Do you reckon that's a cop-out?

Naysan: No, no, no, I think it's good. Like, I, I get it. I mean, religion for me is just a way to organise spirituality. It's like a system.

Josh: Why do you say Baha'i faith rather than Baha'i religion?

Naysan: That's a good question. I mean, we consider it a religion, um, but it's also basically— it's a faith. It's something you believe in. It's not necessarily, um you know, I guess like all religion, you could say it's a way of life, but something the Baha'i community is very aware of. And this is changing also, as you know, the Baha'i faith is very personal, but then it's also very organized. And there's, you know, like, there's one Baha'i. So if like you're a Baha'i in Uganda and you're a Baha'i in Chicago and you're a Baha'i in Australia, you pretty much believe in the same thing except there's a lot of room for your interpretation of things and how your culture and your circumstances are obviously going to influence that. And Baha'is, I think, are very careful and getting better at this, never to say like, Baha'is believe X, Y, and Z. They often say like, my understanding of the Baha'i faith is such and such. And that's, I think, an important nuance because we can't assume to understand. We have a lot of scripture. We have over 100 volumes of scripture, and we're still trying to figure it out. And I might read a paragraph from some of our scripture and take it a certain way, and I might read it a week later and get something else out of it, um, depending on my experiences. So it's— we're careful not to be too prescriptive as well. It's this kind of balance of being, you know, one religion, one faith, but also realising that everyone has their own journey and Just on that, the one thing that's important is Baha'is are not allowed to proselytize. We believe that religion is a very personal thing. People have to find their own path to God if they want that, or even if they don't want it, then don't believe in anything. We're not supposed to force anyone to believe in anything. It's a very personal thing. And I think that also, but at the same time, that depends on someone's background. Like someone who might come from an evangelical background in the US who might be used to that and enthusiastic and excited excited about being a Baha'i might be a little bit like, hey, have you heard of this? And da da da, push it a lot. So it just depends.

Josh: Have you ever called out a Baha'i being like, man, stop evangelizing?

Naysan: Yes, I have. Really?

Josh: Yeah. What did they say?

Naysan: No, they got— I mean, I think it's about using wisdom as well and trying to read the audience or the person you're meeting with. And, you know, and it usually comes from a good place, like people are excited about something. And, you know, we're encouraged to teach the Baha'i faith, but that's very different to proselytizing.

Josh: It.

Tommy: Yeah, I could imagine Josh being an excitable Baha'i guy. Yeah, really good.

Naysan: Josh gets into everything.

Josh: Yeah, the joke was like so many Envato peeps like, mate, you're going to come back Baha'i guaranteed. Really? Yeah, yeah, that's true. Yeah, no, 100%. I remember Selena and that being like, you Baha'i yet? Because I would go to all this. I'm interested. Yeah, I don't need to be like—

Naysan: for me, I have to be something.

Josh: Yeah, I don't see it as like like a lot of the things that the Baha'i faith sort of believe in, uh, universal values or virtues. Like the people like Fouad, who is, um, Collis's dad, is like one of the nicest people I've ever met, and he's Baha'i. So I look at all these people, I'm like, oh, all my friends, yeah, Baha'i, and they're like nice people.

Tommy: Well, it says, yeah, same with Christianity.

Naysan: Yeah.

Josh: Yeah, all religion.

Tommy: Like a lot of them, if you're into self-help, you hear a lot of the messages that Tony Robbins or all these people are actually saying in very old scripture that was written hundreds and hundreds.

Naysan: Deepak Chopra always says like, it's not me, this is from Hinduism. And this is, you know, like it's all coming from, at least I believe, a divine source. And then we re-translate it into other ways for us to digest and understand.

Tommy: I'm reading a Deepak Chopra book at the moment, small little one. Oh cool, the Seven Spiritual Truths. Truths, yeah, it's good.

Naysan: Cool.

Tommy: Yeah, I mean, I'd love, I'd love to dive into it, but the book or that topic behind, like, to understand it more. But I, I get it, it's, it's interesting then because if you're not to proselytize— is that the word?

Naysan: Yeah.

Josh: You can't—

Tommy: how do you get into it? So how does someone like just go like— because it's almost like the intrigue. I'm now more intrigued that you don't want to sort of—

Josh: they're nagging you.

Tommy: They're nagging me.

Naysan: Oh, that's, that's the hook. Yeah, that's the plan. Yeah. No, no, no, we're just starting off. Yeah, you should, you should ask me 3 times.

Josh: You should say, Naysan, you should say, Naysan peacocking. He said the Baha'i pants. But no, how do you explain it? Baha'i?

Naysan: Baha'i in a sentence.

Josh: We're gonna ask him 3 times.

Naysan: There's a few, I mean, there's a few major principles of the Baha'i faith. We believe in one God, but whatever that is, we don't have a name for God like you call it whatever in different languages. And, um, it's an unknowable essence or something. And some people might call it the love energy, or, you know, Muslims say Allah.

Josh: Do people call it the love energy? No, but I mean, it sounds like some sort of like yoga instructor who's found the high—

Naysan: love energy. There's, there's something beyond material realm. There's a creator. I think human beings are fascinating. I don't think this just came—

Josh: Are you looking at your carpal tunnel?

Naysan: Because you're kind of just looking at my hand. I mean, human beings are fascinating. I think there's obviously design involved, so that had to come from something. So one God, whatever that may be for you as an individual, like how I envision that might be very different to someone else who's a Baha'i. So one God, one world. We believe the Earth is one country. And mankind are its citizens. So, you know, obviously we have nationalities and these borders, but these are man-made or human-made. We have created more division than there needs to be. We're all members of the same human race, human family, and that we all need to come together. So a paramount teaching or theme of the Baha'i Faith is unity, to the point that even the prophet of the Baha'i Faith, Baha'u'llah, says if religion is a source of disunity, it's better not to have it at all. That's how important it is for us. So, you know, one God, one religion, and also in the sense of— sorry, world unity and one religion where all the religions we feel come from the same source. They come, are inspired by God, whether it's Aboriginal Indigenous people in Australia or Native Americans, Buddhism, Hinduism. As a Baha'i, I believe in Lord Buddha, I believe in Krishna, I believe in Muhammad, Moses, Jesus Christ. We believe that these different messengers of God, or manifestations of God, have come to humanity at different times in different places and shared something that would help the people of that era, era and time and place, uh, live a better life, both spiritually and materialistically or practically. Um, that's another principle of the faith, that science and religion goes hand in hand. We don't think it's this or that. We don't say that. It's— we don't— for us, it's not creation, uh, you know, creation, um, or, um, like Adam and Eve, or is it the— is it just science? Or we, you know, we kind of, you know, you might say it's like milk and tea. You can't separate the two. The two are kind of living coherently. So everything can be explained by science.

Tommy: I was just going to say, if you're using almond milk, it's a different story.

Naysan: Sorry, you got to keep spitting it. So those are some of the main principles. We believe in the equality of women and men. There's an analogy that, you know, it's like a bird. Men are one wing, women are the other. Until both are strong, the bird can't fly straight and properly. And we need to, you know, in our religion, in our scripture, if you are a family that has a boy and a girl and you can only afford to send one child to school, you send the girl.

Tommy: Why?

Naysan: Because they're the educator of the children. And, and actually now all the science and experience has shown the United Nations, like UNICEF, that's a standard policy in UNICEF now, educating the girl child. So there's a lot of principles like that that we believe in. And how old is it? It's about 100 and— it's 167 years old.

Josh: Wow.

Tommy: And as far as you talk about scripture, what is this? Is this a book, what would it be?

Naysan: Yeah, so we have—

Tommy: is it like the Quran? It's the Bible?

Naysan: Yeah, we have actually a number— there's about 100 volumes of Baha'i scripture. Um, there is a Book of Laws, but that's a book of laws, and we have many different tablets and books that talk on many different subjects. And Baha'is generally use all of those in conjunction with each other. You can't just look at like this one thing and then use it in isolation. Of something else. You have to look at all of it together because also certain tablets may have been written for something very specific.

Josh: So has Baha'u'lláh written all of those?

Naysan: Baha'u'lláh is the prophet, yes.

Josh: Did he write all?

Naysan: He wrote— so he's written a huge amount of, uh, scripture, and then his, uh, son was the successor in a sense of, uh, Baha'u'lláh's revelation, and then he hasn't given permission by Baha'u'lláh to interpret and expand on a lot of it.

Josh: Did you ever, when you were younger, move away from the faith?

Naysan: Yeah, I mean, I was— so that's another principle of the faith, is that just because you're— I was born into a Baha'i family, but just because you're born into a Baha'i family doesn't mean you are Baha'i. Like, it's something we believe, independent investigation of truth for each human being. So even though my parents were Baha'i, it was up to me to find my own path. And decide if I want to be a Baha'i or not a Baha'i or something else. I was raised in a very active Baha'i family. Obviously my parents are going to raise me as a Baha'i with Baha'i principles. But then I went through my own journey. I did a lot of reading. I didn't want to be a Baha'i for a while. I felt I was very much, I believed in Che Guevara and revolution, Frantz Fanon. I felt there needed to be change. The world was a violent, unjust place. Place in order to— I wanted positive change, but I felt you couldn't have positive change through peaceful means. You had to have positive change through force at times, because you can't talk to a violent dictator by like being nice and toddle-fing. Like sometimes you need to use violence to have revolution. And I quickly, as you read more and study more about history and the world, and you look at, you know, Gandhi and Martin Luther King and, and the, you know, a Bolshevik Revolution, you realize— I realise at least that the only true revolution can happen through peaceful means because there needs to be, you know, uh, coherence in what you believe. The ends don't justify the means. Like, you have to have coherence in how you do things. So for me, it was, you know, a journey of discovery. And I think probably by the time I was 18, I really, um, decided for myself, yeah, this is something I really believe in. And of course, we're all trying to follow, you know, you'll meet a lot of Baha'is that are a whole spectrum. Some are struggling with certain things. Everybody's got their struggles, and we're all coming from different walks of life, and we're all trying to live according to the revelation of Baha'u'llah, the teachings, as best we can. But it's a constant journey.

Josh: So how much impact did your dad have on who you are?

Naysan: I think a huge amount of impact. Yeah, both my parents.

Josh: So he was a doctor?

Naysan: Yeah, my dad was a medical doctor. My parents left Chicago. My dad felt he didn't want to be a doctor to be another doctor in the US. There was enough doctors. He wanted to go somewhere that needed more doctors. So they applied to a number of different countries in the world.

Josh: And you know what was on the list?

Naysan: I know Chad was one of the countries. Chad is in Africa. It's a French-speaking country.

Josh: But my parents Chad sounds like some Californian dude.

Naysan: Yeah, I have a close friend named Chad from the US. What's up, Chad?

Tommy: What's up, Chad?

Josh: Chad's watching.

Naysan: He'll probably listen to this. Um, no, but I, I think my parents were like, you know, we learned English, we don't have to learn another language, we don't have to learn French. Um, and also the medical school in Papua New Guinea really wanted my dad, and they wrote back. This is in the days of like mail, actual paper mail. They wrote back to him straight away and said, please come He went for a 2-week visit, came back to the States and told my mom, it's awesome, we're going. That's cool.

Josh: Were you pissed off being a kid who like, you had this comfy life in—

Naysan: yeah, so I went to Papua New Guinea twice. I was 2 when we went till 5. We went back to Chicago when I was 5 and I was there till I was 9. And then 9, we went—

Josh: I went—

Naysan: we went back to Papua New Guinea. That was at the beginning, it was an adventure, it was hard. But then as Papua New Guinea has a lot of challenges, unfortunately unfortunately, the crime is quite high. And so I experienced a lot of trauma, you could say, in experiencing and witnessing quite brutal violence. So, you know, I started to become very like, why did we leave the suburbs of Chicago? That was quite difficult.

Josh: Yeah, because you— even when we've— Naysan and I have traveled, you like— you've got quirks based on you. Like, my trauma is having dirty glasses, whereas, uh, your son's trauma is like, uh, what you, you'd want to like not be on the ground level. You hate being on the ground level.

Tommy: And it just proves my point.

Naysan: Australia, it's awesome.

Tommy: It's really safe here.

Naysan: It's awesome.

Tommy: We haven't had to worry about much.

Josh: And so your dad, uh, got sick, was in a coma for how long?

Naysan: Yeah, my dad had bypass surgery and the surgery was successful, but we don't know what happened while he was, uh, in intensive care afterwards. You know, they keep them under observation after an operation like that. Um, he went into coma. He was in coma for 2 years, and then he passed away.

Josh: And so what was that 2 years like?

Naysan: That was hard. I would— I came for this— the— I was away for the first 6 months. My older sister came and helped my mom look after my dad, and then I came, and my sister went back to her husband, and she was living in Canada at the time, and I came and helped my mom look after my dad.

Tommy: It was hard.

Naysan: I think, you know, it was really hard for my mom, my My mom and dad were extremely in love. Um, it's hard. My dad was, you know, a really vibrant powerhouse. Like, he, he loved life. I mean, when he would eat, like, he would really eat, and he would, you know, he would spend a lot of time.

Josh: Yeah.

Naysan: And he spent a lot of time in the jungles and doing medical work, and, and men, you know, the people really, really loved him. And so it was, it was hard, I think, to see someone like my dad just laying there on a hospital bed looking asleep. Um, and, and, you know, there's not much, uh, research actually medically even in comas. So it's— there's a whole wide— the little research that's been done are all so different, so it's hard to tell, um, uh, what state the person is in. So that was actually very difficult. And, um, you know, you really— my mom was phenomenal, and I think it was very hard for her, but she handled really well. And, um, yeah, it was a— it was an interesting time. It was a very interesting—

Josh: what was the personal growth for you? What did you— what did that perspective give you, do you think?

Naysan: Um, I think you really realise that, um, you have to do everything you can while you can. You realise that you don't know— you know, my dad went in for this operation that was like a preventative operation and the operation was fine. I called, I was filming a project, um, and I was in Vancouver at the time, and I called my mom in the ICU unit, um, and she was like, oh yeah, your dad's here, he's fine, the operation went well, he's having soup right now. We had some family visitors, um, and everything was fine. But that morning at 3 AM, my dad went into coma. So you just don't know, like, you can think things are fine, but then things can turn. So I think for me it really kind of stressed the urgency of really trying to do what you want to do, um, as quickly as you can, in a sense, because you never— like, not putting things off, but then also doing what's important, like kind of, you know, choosing the big rocks in the jar. I don't know if you've heard that analogy, like triaging the kind of things you want to do and making sure that you try and accomplish that.

Josh: How are you with teamwork versus individualism? Do you think?

Naysan: Um, that's a hard one for me because on one hand I really—

Josh: these people are shit.

Naysan: No, I really want to get stuff done and it's always easier sometimes to just do stuff on your own. It's the— in some ways it's like, I'll just do it myself. But then at the other— on the other hand, I feel like it's not always the healthiest thing. You don't grow as much as an individual and the product isn't always as good as it could be. I think you'll see certain solo artists in music, for example, like Prince, for example. I mean, God, he did amazing work. But a lot of bands that the person does the lyrics, the bass, the drums, the guitar, everything kind of might not be as dynamic and colourful in a sense as it could be if there was a collaboration of musicians coming together. There's a different kind of energy. And I think in a lot of the work we do, whether it's creative or not, I think there's a certain energy that comes from collaboration, which sometimes can be slower and more painful and more difficult because working with people are always hard. Everybody's layered, we're all complex, but I feel like it's an important thing to do. I think we have to try, and it's a good way to make yourself grow.

Tommy: I can see why you guys are friends, or you've stayed friends.

Josh: What do you— do you have any final questions for Naysan? This is your opportunity to get any other—

Tommy: to be honest, guys, I've been worried about my car park.

Josh: What's—

Tommy: I'm parked in a 2-hour spot and I'm well over. I was just worried about getting a ticket.

Naysan: That is a— yeah, I have chased parking attendants down the street.

Josh: Have you?

Naysan: Because they like have given me tickets and I still had time.

Josh: Yeah.

Naysan: Have you ever had that happen?

Tommy: That's bullshit.

Naysan: No, now this was before, like, now it's all digital, so But this is before then, and I've literally run after them being like, what are you doing?

Tommy: We know this big, um, we know this big muscly bodybuilder, professional bodybuilder who's a ticket inspector around here, and we felt his abs. Yeah, and he was smiling as Josh touched him. Anyway, he said— I said to him, oh, do you get blokes like wanting to fight you? He says, nah, guys leave me alone, it's the girls. They go, nice, scream and yell at me because, you know, they like— he's not going to do anything. Yeah. And so he just writes his ticket.

Naysan: But do they get a commission? This is what I want to know.

Josh: I'm sure.

Tommy: I mean, we were too scared to ask him anything beyond, can I touch your ass?

Naysan: Can you find out, please?

Tommy: Yeah, we definitely will.

Josh: The, um, whatever council it is around sort of Windsor Way, was it Stoddington?

Tommy: Stoddington, yeah, potentially.

Josh: Beautiful uniforms. Oh, good. Uniforms are important. They wear sort of, um, it sounds like I'm describing the UPS guys. Shorts. Yeah, but it's like a navy short with a light blue. It's professional. They have this like long stick that has the chalk.

Tommy: That's so they don't do their backs.

Josh: Yeah, but it looks like a legit quality, like it looks like it's a— Like a wand. Yeah, like a really legit one.

Naysan: Josh loves uniforms.

Josh: I do.

Naysan: He loves the Navy uniform. He's always checking out fire trucks, UPS delivery trucks. He's like, you know, in the US they have cool trucks all the time.

Josh: I always joke that Naysan should have been a security, a mall cop, security, just like a little bit sort of, yeah, just like the pathetic run chasing someone is there. Yeah, and you would just, I feel like you would get fired for too much aggression, like just slam the guy down, slam the old lady down, pinning a 14-year-old kid against the wall or whatever.

Tommy: Uh, thank you for coming out, we'll have to get you back on.

Naysan: Yeah, as the old mate, awesome.

Josh: Was it what you were expected?

Naysan: Uh, I did not expect to eat on camera. Yeah, demolish it.

Josh: Okay.

Tommy: Yeah, I really love you guys.

Josh: I really appreciate it.

Naysan: I'm glad there was some— I was worried that it would just be all joking around.

Josh: Yeah, well, we got—

Naysan: we covered some very controversial and deep topics.

Josh: Well, Naysan said to me before we, uh, came on the show, I said to him, don't mind about ripping into me. He's like, no, I don't really want to, I'd prefer to be positive. I'm like, I'm only saying because I want to fucking rip into you, and if you don't rip into me, yeah, I just look like an asshole. And which is pretty classic.

Naysan: Is it what you'd hoped, Josh?

Josh: Yeah, it's fine.

Tommy: It's everything.

Josh: It's a Daily Talk Show, everyone. Hi@thedailytalkshow.com if you want to send us an email. Otherwise, we'll see you tomorrow.

Tommy: See you guys.

Naysan: Bye.