Vet, Illustrator, Spy Dr Kim Lam

Josh: The Daily Talk Show. It's The Daily Talk Show, episode 273.

Tommy: It's nice to have someone smarter than us. Well, it's not hard actually. We've always got Mr. 97 here, so he's smarter than us. We've got someone smarter than Mr. 97, Dr. Kim Lam.

Josh: Welcome. Our second doctor. What is it? Is a prefix? Is that what it's called?

Kim: It's a prefix. Okay, it's a pronoun. I don't know.

Tommy: I actually don't know what a prefix means.

Josh: A prefix, I think, is the thing that, you know, you can select Lord Doctor.

Kim: I thought a prefix is like, uh, re- or sub- or like that little word in front of a whole word.

Tommy: You're smarter than us, that's probably correct.

Kim: We've got Google in front of us.

Josh: That's true, we could look it up. We do.

Tommy: Welcome to the podcast.

Kim: Thanks for having me.

Tommy: That's okay, you're our second guest while filming, is that correct?

Josh: Yeah, uh, yeah, we've had Christian, we had Christian Hull. Yeah. And that's, that's it, so no pressure.

Tommy: You would have actually been our first guest had we sort of had you last week on that really, really hot day.

Kim: Yes, the day I bailed.

Tommy: I'm glad you did 'cause it was 40-something degrees in here and it was, we were sweating. Today's nice.

Kim: So who did you interview on that day?

Josh: Josh and I. Yeah, no, we didn't have to worry about it. Yeah, it was good. But so the doctor bit, that's because you studied veterinary. What do you study when you're a vet?

Kim: Well, my degree's official name is Bachelor of Science in Veterinary Biology. And Bachelor of Veterinary Medicine and Surgery. It's just Bachelor of Vet Science. It's just that Murdoch University version of it gave it lots of letters.

Josh: And so does it— being a vet, are they all surgeons?

Kim: Yes. Okay. They're not all specialists.

Tommy: I was on the phone for 55 minutes trying to get car insurance yesterday. It took literally to get the policy. I'm not there to try to, you know, kick the tires. Literally just want to sign up. 55 minutes from the first time they called the end of it. And one of their questions was, um, what do you go by? And they're like, um, sir, doctor. I was like, what if I just say doctor? Is that how you get away with it? Can I get away with it?

Kim: You could, but then they'll look at your ID and all that and just waste more time.

Josh: Oh, you legit have it on the licence to say doctor?

Kim: Uh, not my driver's license. On something that's there. My library card.

Josh: Yeah, library card. That's perfect.

Tommy: I could forge a library card pretty easily.

Kim: You can be who you want to be in the world today.

Tommy: Yeah, true.

Kim: Nothing's true.

Josh: It's very true. It's not true.

Tommy: I love you, Amy.

Josh: It is true. You're my wife. But the— so did you know that you wanted to be a vet? Because now you're doing illustrations and stuff. You've got this whole—

Kim: I think it's many little girls' dreams growing up to be a vet one day. I think in Grey's Anatomy, the main actress even said every little girl's dream to be a vet. Like, it's a thing.

Josh: Yeah.

Kim: So I followed that mainstream dream. So I think I actually said I wanted to be an artist or a musician first before I wanted to be a, before I realised that was out there and it was conditioned in me that it was prestigious and stable and secure by society and my parents. And then I thought that's the best thing to do.

Tommy: So, well, you did go to a school. You told us that is like you need to get into that school.

Kim: Yes, I went to a selective school, government school, Mac Robertson Girls High School. And it's got a reputation if you know why.

Josh: Are there any famous people like who sort of, what's the alumni? That's not even a thing that we say at school.

Kim: I don't follow.

Josh: You're not a part of the newsletter or anything. I'd love to, like my school, I felt like wasn't like a, what do they call it? Low socioeconomic school. So we had great camera equipment because obviously they're like, they were investing into it. So it was great. We had like new iMacs and stuff, but the problem, yeah, I don't feel like we've necessarily organised enough.

Kim: Well, I have one friend from my primary school, which is St. Dominic's Primary School in, Broadmeadows, and a famous alumni there is Eddie Maguire.

Josh: Really? Was that a big thing when you were there? Was Eddie already poppin'?

Kim: Yes. So he was a reference point.

Josh: Oh, really?

Kim: People told us that's where Eddie Maguire went to primary school, because it was Broadmeadows, a low socioeconomic area. And on Who Wants to Be a Millionaire, I remember him, like he had a contestant who had this magic trick of knowing every single Māori number, the Māori being Yeah, those old maps that had all of Metro Melbourne on it.

Tommy: I moved to Sydney, I still thought it was called Melways, and then I realised that it's Melbourne Ways, Sideways, Brizways. It's not the same. I was still thinking Sydney was Melways. Yeah, yeah.

Kim: So the contestant knew every suburb's Melway number, index number. Wow. And because, so he said, what's Broadmeadows? Because he knew it was number 6. So when she said number 6, he could confirm that she knew.

Josh: And have you ever done the go back to school thing and give a speech?

Kim: Uh, not at primary school, but at high school, yes.

Josh: Yeah, what was the experience like? Were you triggered?

Kim: I was, because I saw lots of faces looking back at me that looked just like me not too long ago.

Tommy: Yeah, but is that sad? Is that like—

Kim: they were Asian faces.

Tommy: Well, it's like, I don't know what my life is going to look like down the path.

Kim: Well, just that poignancy of how the naivety was very vivid. And the hope and the uncertainty in their eyes. But then also that they were very YOLO and they didn't take everything too seriously. But at the same time they were very anxious because they had exams on. And yeah, that was a stressful place.

Josh: Do you remember how long you spoke for?

Kim: Probably only 20 minutes.

Josh: Yeah, because I was asked to speak at my old school. It was like a graduation. It was like an awards night. And they didn't give me any limit.

Tommy: And so that's probably number one move if you're ever hired, Josh.

Josh: Yeah, always set a limit. And so I spoke for—

Tommy: unless you want value, then don't set a limit.

Kim: How did you know when to stop?

Josh: Well, I don't. And so it was when I like ran out of things to say sort of thing. And so it went for 40 minutes and it was only meant to be 15 or whatever.

Kim: Did you have a theme or anything?

Josh: Uh, no, I just remember it was sort of like, you can do it too. And my last slide, Tommy and I always laugh at this, It's just horrendous and sort of inappropriate, and I wouldn't do it nowadays. But that year I had— so it would have been— it wasn't even that long ago. This is like 2011 I did this, but I'd just been to Thailand and I rode on an elephant, which I probably wouldn't do now. And so the last photo was me on an elephant, and I was like, like, this is what I've been able to do in a year. Like, I've travelled the world.

Kim: And you can do this.

Josh: You could do this too. It was so awkward.

Kim: It was a motivational speech.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: And I had one crazy parent parent mum come after you, "That was amazing. Like, don't worry about what everyone else says. That was so energizing." I was like, "What do you mean? What is everyone else saying?" And then it was, you know, working out the, you know, the fact that maybe I'd spoken too long. But whose fault that was, I don't know.

Tommy: I would never be asked back to my school. I don't even know if they would remember who I am.

Josh: They'd definitely.

Tommy: Yeah, maybe, but for the wrong reason.

Kim: Well, if they knew what you did now, I'm sure they'd ask you back.

Tommy: Yeah, I'm fucking flying now. I know, look at me now.

Josh: Got your own podcast.

Tommy: You got my own podcast, guys, in my own studio.

Josh: Sucked in.

Kim: You turned that into a confident, functional human being. That's an achievement.

Tommy: I was like—

Josh: always confident.

Tommy: The— you saying like looking at these kids with this naivety that they have, it's like, I think it serves us for a period of time, and then life can either taint all the sort of you start experiencing life and then it goes away, but it's so great for a period of time to get you to make the moves.

Kim: Are you saying naivety goes away? 'Cause I feel still very naive.

Tommy: To some degree. I think like naivety about, like I look at how I'm doing and I see it with like young people making videos and I just see all their shortcomings because I've done all of that. But they're still positive about getting through it. I'm just like, now with my knowledge, it sort of slows you down. And so I'm in this battle of like, how do I still be the cowboy? How do I still ride the horse? But also—

Josh: But you're so triggered. You've fallen off the horse so many times. So you know every, you've fallen off at every single stage. So then it becomes less fun because you're like, that's what I was wondering is I feel like I've got anxiety based on things that have happened or whatever, where I'm like, it's gonna happen again. When you get like older, I wonder if I'm going to get like 50.

Kim: You mellow out.

Josh: Do you reckon you just stop caring?

Kim: I think a lot of people mellow out because you have less energy to care.

Josh: Yeah.

Kim: And you've just been through it so many times, you might get desensitised or you just know the patterns.

Josh: And so how long did it take you to do your vet thing?

Kim: 5 years.

Josh: 5 years. And was that whole time, were you like, did you start to question that path or you? On board?

Kim: Uh, I was pretty on board. Uh, it was so intense, I feel like I didn't have any time to second-guess it. So it was, it was over, like the timetable was just very dense and it was physically and emotionally and mentally demanding. I think I just had that short-term goal of getting through it and passing and not really thinking beyond that.

Josh: Do they, is it like, uh, do people specialise in the native and like you, do you specialise in something?

Kim: You can eventually, uh, not during the degree but afterwards you can do a master's in conservation or get more experience in—

Josh: Like reptiles?

Kim: Yeah.

Josh: Do you know much about reptiles?

Kim: I know a bit about reptiles, but—

Tommy: I had a blue tongue lizard.

Kim: I wouldn't ask me specific questions.

Tommy: I had a children's python. It died.

Josh: What's that, a children's python?

Tommy: Yeah, they're called children's python.

Kim: How'd it die?

Tommy: Well, I picked essentially the runt of the litter. It was the coolest looking one, but it was also the most timid. And then my brother got the other one, which was just pretty, you know, up and about. And then the one died and they just said, look, it was like, yeah, the runt of the litter. It just died.

Kim: So mysterious reasons, because you don't die because you're a runt.

Tommy: Well, we went away.

Josh: We went away and didn't feed it.

Kim: There's a real reason.

Tommy: My eldest brother was looking after it, but it just stopped eating. So what do you do? Like, you got a little python.

Kim: It got sick then.

Tommy: It must have been sick. Got the flu. Couldn't handle it, died.

Josh: Do you get many?

Tommy: But it was in the same enclosure, so there's two snakes, like one died, one didn't.

Kim: Yeah, might have had some internal medical issue.

Tommy: I mean, we're not willing to invest in the snake. We paid $380 for it anyway, so there's a bit of money spent.

Josh: Do you have animal insurance for your—

Kim: I do, I do.

Josh: Okay, like because people get crazy bit, like I saw a guy who was doing these YouTube videos and he started doing heaps of sponsored content and people criticizing, like, man, you've sold out. And then he came out and said, like, hey, like, my dog's got cancer, and he was doing it all, which is like a very good reason to be doing sponsored content. Yeah, but, um, like, is that a, uh, like, the, the cost involved, is that the same in Australia? Like, you know how they talk about, like, well, not pet insurance, but if something goes wrong, you know, like in the US, something goes wrong, like if you break a leg or something, I feel like you can get like a million dollar bill or some shit.

Kim: For humans?

Josh: Yeah. Is like—

Kim: Vet bills are, I think the reputation for vet bills is that they're really expensive because there's no Medicare and a lot of people don't have insurance. And it's, so you don't get anyone helping you pay that gap.

Josh: Yeah, sure.

Kim: But vets don't make much money either because their overheads are really high. Oh really? Yes, I will dispel that myth here. Oh really?

Josh: I assume anyone with a doctor in front of their name is a baller.

Tommy: I mean, I've just got the gripe with dentists, really. They're the ones who charge a shitload and you don't get rebate.

Josh: Yeah, this is, this is sort of a rant episode as well.

Tommy: Yeah, pretty much.

Josh: That's why I'm here.

Kim: They do such a good job.

Tommy: I know, they do a great job.

Kim: You need them.

Tommy: Yeah, we need them.

Kim: And they need to get paid well so they can do the job well.

Tommy: Yeah, but are they— I feel like they're the ones that probably make quite a bit of cash.

Kim: Yeah, their business model's effective and Yeah, but vets aren't.

Josh: What's the— no, what's the, um, overheads of a vet?

Kim: Um, so imagine you're running a whole hospital like Royal Melbourne Hospital. Yeah, but a miniature version of that. Okay, so the size of this studio, but it's got almost everything that a hospital has. So it's got x-ray, dental, dental x-ray machine, a normal x-ray machine. It's got a whole drug dispensary. It's got a surgery in it, consultation rooms, pathology room, like everything.

Josh: Like taking blood and shit?

Kim: Yeah, everything.

Tommy: The reason I know about this, Kim, is because I've watched enough action films where they break into a vet clinic and then they've got the vet and then he's been shot and then like, I need you to stitch me up, I'm a vet.

Josh: Yeah, do it. What is that? How many action films?

Tommy: I've seen a lot. But which one? 97, you've seen it, haven't you, mate?

Kim: I've only seen Walking Dead with Herschel.

Tommy: Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's one of them. That's one of my references.

Josh: One more and I'll be happy.

Kim: Hamish Blake was in a movie, um, something about honey.

Josh: New Zealand one? Oh no, yes, yes, yes.

Kim: Yeah, that was at my ex-vet clinic.

Tommy: Interesting. So if I got shot right now, you could—

Kim: and we were in a vet clinic— I could do something.

Tommy: You could save my life?

Josh: Call an ambulance?

Kim: I could reduce your risk of dying, but I might not save your life.

Tommy: You could probably give me some painkillers too.

Kim: And I'd probably get sued afterwards for not saving your life.

Josh: So did you ever—

Tommy: they get it hard, the vets. Look, just trying to save people.

Josh: Did you ever have a vet clinic? Did you have a clinic?

Kim: No.

Josh: So how far along did you get before?

Kim: I was an employee. So I think if you want to be more lucrative as a vet, you specialise or you open a clinic or you work with government.

Josh: So what does the government need? All the roosters in bloody government.

Kim: Woof woof. Like AQIS, the people who do quarantine, help with quarantine. So prevent diseases from entering Australia.

Josh: What's the most interesting animal that you've ever dealt with?

Kim: Axolotl.

Tommy: What is that?

Josh: Axolotl.

Kim: Remember when Pets Paradise used to exist? When there were pet stores in shopping centers? And sometimes you'd see those willowy, ghostly looking lizard-like things, and they didn't have scales, but they were in the water or out of the water.

Tommy: Yeah, weird looking.

Kim: Like an albino.

Tommy: Yeah.

Kim: Seaweed gills.

Tommy: Looks like a fresh, fresh Mouse.

Kim: A mouse? It had a tail.

Tommy: It had a tail, but like the pinky.

Kim: It looks pretty historic, right? Like part of an evolution diagram.

Tommy: It looks like something from the bottom of the ocean. Where does that even come from? How do they go, let's make this a pet?

Josh: Yeah, what is the prerequisite?

Kim: Probably aesthetically and out of novelty, just looking at that sort of creature, people thought money.

Josh: And chimps, are you against having chimps as pets?

Kim: Uh, yes.

Josh: Okay, and so what is—

Tommy: it's illegal in a lot of countries.

Josh: Yeah. Yeah.

Kim: But like, I don't know why you need to have a chimp as a pet.

Josh: Well, what do you need to have a dog?

Kim: Exotic reasons.

Josh: Yeah, but is there like, what do you think the reason is to get a pet? Like a lot of people get a pet because it's like this first step before having a kid. Yeah.

Kim: I think there's heaps of reasons. So for a lot of people, like it might be that it's convention to get one and they're influenced by convention, what everyone else is doing. It might be because deep down they're a child within who always had a dream to have companion dog and a best mate. Often it's companionship and love and just having love to give and wanting to look after something. It's a power thing.

Josh: And I think maybe I do want a pet.

Tommy: They're life savers though.

Kim: Guard dogs?

Tommy: My brother has benefited so much from having a dog.

Kim: Yeah, some dogs are assistant dogs, so they help with people who are about to have seizures, or they can tell when your blood sugar's going high, low.

Tommy: Is it true that some of them can sniff out cancer? I've heard that.

Kim: Yes.

Tommy: That's crazy.

Kim: I don't know how you train one to do that, but yeah.

Josh: I wonder if I could get a diet dog. Anytime I went to eat some sugar, it would fucking bite me. Could you imagine?

Kim: I'm sure you can train that.

Tommy: We don't.

Kim: If you give it food.

Josh: So how do you train? Like, how do I?

Tommy: It just wants the food from me, Josh.

Josh: Well, so that's mine. Well, so we're house sitting at the moment. We're looking after a dog. And Bree and I rarely cook, and we cooked on this occasion. We did like a lamb, and there was a bone. It was like a decent-sized bone, so I gave it to Archie the dog.

Kim: Was it a cooked bone or a raw bone?

Josh: Yeah, it was cooked. And so I know— well, this is why I think I discovered, because I gave it to him.

Tommy: Smarter than I think. Yesterday I said the same thing.

Josh: So I gave it to Archie outside, and he was loving it, and then I hear kkk, kkk, kkk, and he swallowed the whole thing. Like, I imagined like the way that bones work is it's like They bite all the meat.

Kim: They get it brittle and turn it into powder?

Josh: Yeah, they get all the— No, well, I just thought that they would— I would walk away and like, ah, the bone's there and they'll go put it in the bin or bury it. But he ate the whole thing. It's, I think, a golden retriever or Labrador. I don't know the difference.

Tommy: So can you just give us the rundown of the next 24 hours?

Josh: Yeah, from the bone.

Kim: Oh, most— I'm sure most dogs get given cooked and uncooked bones and do absolutely fine. It's just the ones that don't do fine make us continue not to do it. It could become a foreign body, so it could get lodged somewhere in the tube system of the gut.

Josh: So it could still be—

Kim: so it could be constipation. Okay, break a tooth.

Josh: To be honest, if he was constipated for the next week and a half while we're not there— oh, so while we're there, that would— that could be—

Kim: yeah, but constipation isn't always just no poo. It doesn't equal zero poo. Sometimes it equals a buildup of diarrhea. And then it's an explosion.

Tommy: Mate, I've got a 2-year-old, you should see, backed up, comes out like a rock.

Kim: Yeah, constipation's not a good thing.

Tommy: It's a stream.

Kim: You don't want constipation, do you?

Josh: No way.

Tommy: Plus it's uncomfortable. So dogs are pretty resilient though, they can survive a lot of stuff. I had 2 whippets growing up.

Josh: What are whippets?

Tommy: Whippets.

Kim: Small greyhounds.

Tommy: Yeah, small greyhound, slightly bigger than a miniature. What are the small ones?

Kim: Italian greyhound.

Tommy: Italian greyhound. It's like, it's interesting, like there's a little family, Italian greyhound, Whippet, Greyhound.

Kim: There's a poodle version of that family too.

Tommy: Really?

Kim: Miniature toy poodle, miniature poodle.

Tommy: Are they cousins? What are they? Just like, how does that work?

Kim: All dogs are the same species. Yeah, see, that's weird.

Tommy: I guess there's humans and there's races.

Kim: Not all birds are the same species. They're all different species.

Josh: All right, you just fucking blown my mind. So this is where we fall apart as a show.

Kim: But I want to hear about your—

Tommy: Angus was around when I was a young teen experimenting with herbs of such nature.

Josh: Herbs? Herbs. Marijuana.

Tommy: Marijuana. And so what we did was we cooked up this butter where we just got like leaves from a plant and sort of like soaked them in it, boiled the butter for an hour, poured it in, made these cookies. I got them to a point where they tasted pretty good. Except for the fact that my dog got into them and he ate like 3 or 4 of these, which you'd be in trouble as a human eating 3 or 4.

Kim: And those are lean dogs, so it doesn't take much.

Tommy: And so I'm freaking out. Mum and Dad aren't there. I'm like, oh no, what do we do? I called the local vet. They're like, you need to put salt down its, um, like soda crystals. Yeah, down its throat to have it spewing out.

Kim: Was the vet really far away?

Tommy: No, he was just in the same suburb, couldn't be bothered coming over, but he's like, yeah, he should be fine. And so the dog was so stoned, he was walking down the hallway bumping into the walls and he didn't die. And so that's what it's like.

Kim: So you saved a life.

Tommy: Do you reckon doing that, putting the salt down its throat, having—

Kim: Yeah, you can get salt toxicity. If it was soda crystals, that makes you vomit. Yeah. Did you have soda crystals at home? Because I give that advice over the phone and I don't know anyone who has soda crystals.

Tommy: Well, Mum had them.

Josh: So what would you use soda crystals for?

Kim: Yeah, I don't even know what they're for.

Tommy: I thought they were for like cleaning, putting in the bath like when you've got sore muscles.

Josh: Tommy's mum's a yogi.

Tommy: Maybe I gave him Epsom salts. I was young and I was dumb.

Kim: But you gave something that made Weepy vomit.

Tommy: And he was like, but he was affected from it. Have you ever seen a animal come into the clinic? Well, beyond that, like actually in a bad way. No, not dead, but just taken something. Yeah, it's really common.

Kim: Dogs eat stuff. That's why you get pet insurance.

Tommy: But like, is there been a more severe, like a more intense drug that you've seen one take?

Kim: I can't remember. I really, I'm going completely blank because I feel like they eat absolutely can eat absolutely everything. I had like a French Bulldog come in at least 6 times in the first half of the year just for eating Lush soap.

Tommy: The same one?

Josh: Yeah, the same guy.

Tommy: I learned from the first cookie incident. Don't leave the cookies in a place he can eat them. Don't move your Lush soap.

Kim: These are accidents and people are busy and tired, so.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: What should I do when the dog, so I've been going to the park and Every time I go, there's food at the park and the dog eats it. So it's been, once was hot chips and it was in the court.

Kim: Is the dog on a lead?

Josh: No.

Kim: Being on a lead would.

Josh: Yeah, but they, I wanted like, he's inside all day. So I just want him to sort of like roam around. Well, that's training.

Kim: You would need to train him to do that.

Josh: Is it safe for me?

Tommy: It's hard when it's not your own dog too.

Josh: Yeah, 'cause I don't know if I can sort of grab him in those moments. So Bri keeps saying like, why does every time you take Archie out, He's eaten something because we thought he was bleeding because it was all like red all over the floor, and then we smelt it. It was tomato sauce from the chips that was dripping off his mouth.

Kim: Like stunt.

Josh: Yeah. And so what's the— is mango like— in those situations where he's eating something, I worry that some psychopath has put something in the mango, like he's over dogs being around the area.

Tommy: I've heard about people like guys putting Ticks on grounds for— No, into steak, like poison to steak, throwing it over fences.

Kim: Yeah, you hear storeys like that.

Tommy: Did you ever encounter it though?

Kim: Most people aren't that nasty. But people always suspect that their neighbour might have that vendetta against them.

Tommy: Dog's not feeling well. Brian's poisoned him. I knew it.

Kim: But the only way to stop, like some dogs it would take so much training to stop them doing that 'cause they're just froth over food. But you have to reward him for not going for the food and going to you instead. Instead. So you should carry some treats. Okay, so a better alternative to the rubbish food.

Josh: What is the— what is the okay human food that dogs can eat? Because I've been giving him— he's got this habit of eating shapes.

Kim: Eating it for nutrition or accident?

Josh: No, no, so he eats this.

Tommy: He's got a habit of eating almond shapes.

Josh: They're 4 shapes. He gets 4 shapes before his dog food.

Tommy: As in the owner?

Kim: That's why does he get 4 shapes?

Josh: Because that's, that's what he gets.

Kim: Habit.

Josh: So yeah, he sits down and I'm throw it up and he eats it and he gets 4.

Kim: Oh, so it's to entertain the human.

Josh: Is that what that is?

Kim: Yeah.

Tommy: Are you talking about shapes?

Josh: Yeah, but the dog loves it. The dog like is waiting specifically for the shape.

Kim: Because he's been trained to expect the shapes.

Josh: Okay, but he doesn't like the shapes.

Kim: He probably loves it, but he's been trained to— he enjoys it. It's like giving you a lolly before you brush your teeth.

Tommy: Or the dentist giving you a lollipop after.

Josh: But if he enjoys it, He will enjoy his dinner anyway.

Tommy: My son would enjoy ice cream, I just don't give it to him.

Josh: But do you think— but he would love it every day. The thing is, have we screwed him up now? Like, now that—

Kim: because, well, he's a big dog, right? Yeah, I'm sure you haven't screwed him up.

Tommy: Yeah, I'm just trying to work out, did the owners do the shape thing? Yeah. And then they told you to do the shape?

Josh: Yeah, they leave.

Kim: I don't know the owner's reasons for doing that.

Josh: I think it's because Archie loves it, so I think Yeah, but I understand.

Kim: I think it makes the owners happy.

Josh: Yeah, okay. It's a little thing that they do.

Kim: And it makes the dog happy too, but he doesn't need it from my professional opinion.

Josh: Okay, great.

Kim: I'll take it.

Tommy: It's a smart one. Is this the hardest you've sort of had to pull back on memories from your past as a vet?

Kim: No, really.

Tommy: Or people quiz you all the time?

Kim: People love talking about animals and their pets.

Tommy: Yeah, I guess it's like if you're at a party and you say, you know, what you're doing now. And then he's like, I was a vet. Like, I've got a few dog questions.

Kim: A lot of parties I've been going to, not even parties, gatherings where there's more than 2 people.

Tommy: It's—

Josh: That sounds like a party to me.

Kim: People don't ask you what you do anymore because jobs are getting really vague. So you end up talking about other common things.

Tommy: So there's insecurities in them if they're not—

Kim: I'm not sure why, or just the type of people I hang out with. It's just not as Interesting what you do.

Josh: I think that, no, I think that there is a whole movement in 'you aren't your job.' You are not your job, which is— which is where we're 24 minutes in and all we've spoken about is animals, but the, um, and the next thing we've got is the— that we want to talk about your illustrations.

Tommy: Do you think that you aren't your job? Your job takes up a majority of your time, so I guess there's a— there's some, you know, nurturing things from you, like a caring for something outside of yourself. I think It does describe, but what do you do?

Josh: Like, I think that the alternative now is like people say, what are you passionate about? Or like, what gets you up in the morning? Which sort of, that's why I don't go to parties because that the idea of answering it sounds like—

Kim: I don't believe in passion.

Josh: Yeah, exactly. Yeah, I know passion is, I was actually reading, is it the guy who did Dilbert? What do you think of him? Scott Adams.

Kim: Scott Adams? I think he's a genius and I'm very scared of him.

Josh: Yeah, squirt. Quirky, real quirky, squirky, squirky, real squirky. No, but I'm only like 10 pages in. I actually have a segment on this show called, uh, what was it called? 20 Pages In. Yeah, when I start talking about a book because normally I only get to 20 pages.

Kim: So, oh yes, you have— you had that issue of not finishing books.

Josh: So 20 Pages In, not enough what I know. So what I know about Scott Adams—

Kim: make the font really small so you could fit a whole book into first 20 pages.

Josh: Man, well, this is quite, uh, edged. That's what I liked about Deep Work. I was looking at it yesterday, just, just like marveling. Marveling, is that the right word? Marveling over the fact that I finished this book. Like, because I've underlined—

Kim: it's quite a spaced-out book, right? It's double-spaced, it's well-patterned, huge.

Josh: And that's what I was thinking. I'm like, this could have actually been a little pocket.

Tommy: I'm just imagining the smirk on the kids that grew up with Harry Potter and read every one of them right now watching, just like, I only got 40.

Josh: Actually, I can remember I got 40 pages into Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets. Is that the first one, Mr. 97? You should know.

Kim: I only read one chapter. I'm saving it for retirement because I don't think it's worth this segment of my life.

Tommy: Did you see the movies?

Kim: Yeah, I've seen the movies.

Tommy: I can tell you about them.

Josh: Have you seen Star Wars?

Kim: Yes.

Josh: I haven't. So that's one of those ones where it's like—

Kim: I don't know about Star Wars. I've just come along for the ride, but I don't really understand.

Josh: You don't enter into the Star Wars sort of—

Kim: Not a fan.

Josh: And so when did you realise that when you were doing the vet stuff that you liked? The reason, you know, the vet stuff, I keep, I struggle with the word veterinarian. And I remember specifically, Mum used to always pick up on things that I'd say wrong. I think one of them was I would say the vet, I think she would say, oh, they, the profession isn't, they're not a vet. You go to a vet. They're a veterinarian. Okay, great.

Kim: Yeah, well, times have changed. Your mum might have been right back then.

Josh: Maybe, yeah. But the other one was—

Kim: Language is getting lazier.

Josh: I used to, I would say advertisement and she would say it's advertisement.

Kim: I say advertisement.

Josh: Really?

Kim: Yeah.

Josh: Wow.

Kim: Tomatoes, tomatoes.

Josh: And I don't think we actually measured— 98 point what was your INTER score?

Kim: The whole world will know. 98.25, which is average at my school. I was so happy with it.

Josh: I mean, 46 was average at my school.

Tommy: 98.25, more than me.

Josh: So, Yeah, so enter score is like— Tommy and I said—

Kim: You really don't need a score.

Josh: I know, but I like that. I would love to have a score. I have moments.

Kim: I can score you.

Josh: Okay, great.

Kim: Afterwards.

Josh: We can do it out of 100 or something.

Kim: It's an interview.

Josh: It would be horrendous.

Tommy: You said you went to a school where I guess when you're at a high IQ or what, how would you say?

Kim: Oh, you sit an exam and they make sure that you're at a certain ability level.

Josh: What are they asking in the exam?

Kim: I recall it being 3— was it 3 parts? So there's an essay writing part, I think there's like a general English reading comprehension part, and there's maths.

Tommy: Yeah, you're saying those kids that you're looking at and sort of the naivety and the path that they're on, it's— and you said sort of the, the— you said you wanted to be an artist, but then you went into vet, which is a much more tried and tested— yep— career path. Yep. But you've done the full circle. You've gone the vet, so you've done the tried and tested.

Kim: Yeah, well, what happened with the vet was I achieved the dream that I set out to achieve. So I was working at my dream clinic, which I love.

Tommy: And you saved an axolotl. That was you.

Josh: You can even remember the name. What was the dream clinic? What does that mean to a vet?

Kim: It was a gold standard clinic with lovely people. They practised at the highest standards, really, really cared about the animals and the clients. They just didn't do any, didn't cut corners, and a lot of clinics can.

Josh: How would you cut a corner?

Kim: So say during an anesthetic, you might be too busy to write and record down the heart rate or the respiratory rate, like not writing proper records. That's a corner-cutting thing. Or maybe handling the animals a bit too efficiently rather than taking your time, which is less stressful. So Yeah, there's heaps of—

Josh: The anaesthetist, or however you say it, like, do they have them in vets, or do you do that yourself?

Kim: You can specialise, you can be a vet who specialises in anaesthesia.

Josh: Are they ballers? Because, you know, like, normally you always meet someone who's like, oh my God, like, have you seen Becky and John? Like, they're always on holidays and they've got 6 BMWs. It's like, yeah, he's an anaesthetist.

Kim: Well, they earn more, but I'm pretty sure they work really hard.

Josh: Okay, sure. Yeah, well, all we see is them coming in just Yeah, I feel like the anesthetist— this is the last time I'm saying it— yeah, the kind of person who she would probably have Bitcoin, get right into Bitcoin.

Tommy: So you say they're not the most educated investors?

Josh: No, no, I'm saying that they've just got—

Kim: I don't know how we've connected vet and anaesthetist with Bitcoin.

Josh: No, well, I just feel like lots of money spending it on dumb stuff. Well, no, one of my clients who I love, he's a neurosurgeon and he gets into crypto. Like, he was like, That's what—

Kim: but anyone can get into crypto. It attracts lots of odd personalities, but it feels like there's something in—

Josh: I felt that that was sort of a strong— I wasn't expecting him to be like— he was interested in tech and doing all that. So I'm like, where's that come from? It's like, oh, like he's got like disposable income that he's wanting to—

Kim: or they're just complex multi-dimensional human beings who have multiple interests.

Josh: I like that too. Oh, so you've—

Kim: you've—

Tommy: you're an artist now?

Kim: I'm an illustrator.

Tommy: Which is that you call yourself an artist?

Kim: Uh, I could, but I feel like artist is more fine artist, someone who—

Tommy: a painter.

Kim: Yeah, traditional mediums or a little bit more avant-garde than what I do.

Josh: Yeah.

Kim: So, um, what does that mean? Like edgy, ahead of the time.

Tommy: Okay, well, either way, you're more artistic than I am when it comes to illustrating illustrations. I, I was just going, I'm looking through your website Danger Lamb.

Kim: Old website.

Tommy: Is that your old website? Are you updating?

Kim: It's always old.

Tommy: It's always dynamic.

Josh: Needs a CMS. What does Danger Lamb mean?

Kim: It's not that interesting of a story, but I think early days when I was dating Jason, we were just going for a walk along the park. So this is a really faint, wispy memory.

Tommy: Connecting the dots just quickly, Jason Fox was on episode 101.

Josh: Good memory.

Tommy: It's not my memory, it's searching Google Jason Fox, The Daily Talk Show.

Kim: But I, I, you, you did not search on Google just then, it came right out of your head.

Josh: Yeah, but he's literally, that's the only thing he's been focusing on the whole was, I, I saw his lips the whole thing.

Kim: Oh, he's been waiting to say it.

Josh: I actually could hear it in the headphones, so he got it out. I'm glad that we wasted all of that.

Kim: Yeah, yeah. So I was just walking along I'm pretty sure it was outdoors under a tree walking along a park pathway. And then I broke into song and instead, there was a Danger Mouse song that I can't remember anymore. Danger Mouse, the cartoon. And I made a Danger Lamb version of that just in that moment. And all we remember is that that song was epic and so cool and should be a famous jingle that I get royalties for. We don't remember what it sounds like at all, but that's where Danger Lamb came from.

Josh: And so then you're like, I need to get the Instagram and the website.

Kim: Instagram didn't exist back then.

Josh: Yeah, sure. So what was the next? Because I'm obsessed with domain names. I'm actually starting to let a lot lapse. Does anyone want nowexplored.com? It's about to lapse.

Tommy: Not bad for a travel— we should just try and sell some of these online.

Kim: How many do you have now?

Josh: Uh, it's slowly diminishing, but I've got like lots of— sometimes I get the— I got one called, uh, planeface. Which we mentioned on the show, but the idea was— yeah, P-L-A-N-E-F-A-C-E. I think I had to get the .co. I don't think the .com was available, which is more expensive, but I had the Instagram Plane Face, and the idea was that it was a face mask for being on the plane, specifically designed for the plane.

Kim: Oh yes, yep.

Josh: But anyway, so I'm not doing it.

Tommy: Great idea.

Josh: Yeah, and I just felt like it's been executed.

Tommy: I thought the thing was up for sale if you want.

Josh: But what I could imagine, the reason I got it was because of this whole sort of social influencer movement. People want to say that they're going on holidays. We need an excuse to post that we're on a plane, and it's not good enough now to post the photo of the ring.

Kim: Oh, it's also for those masks that you wear.

Josh: No, so it's— yeah, it is.

Kim: To keep your skin hydrated.

Josh: I mean, exactly, that's what it is. But the way that we get people in is they, they're going to buy it because then they can take their photo of them with their plane face on.

Kim: You're such a visionary for these ideas. You see the potential.

Josh: I had a whole PR strategy. The way that I was gonna get on the news was I was going to, actually I was never going to do this, but I thought that covering your face could be a security issue. And so if I could create a storey around that where—

Kim: You could get arrested.

Josh: Well, yeah, it was either like the extreme version is having the plane face on and then going up to the toilet near the cockpit but just sort of flailing a little bit to the point where they sort of put you down, like sort of potentially arrest you.

Kim: So you wanted to create some controversy?

Josh: Some controversy to be like, or it wouldn't even have to be that extreme, just get them to say, sir, can you take the mask off?

Kim: And have your iPhone out, selfie mode?

Josh: Exactly. So I would be like filming the whole thing, and then in the news it would be like, a man was taken off a plane, Virgin Australia has had to come out to say, can you wear plain face on the—

Kim: But what if they don't use your lingo?

Josh: Yeah, that's the— well, I would obviously—

Tommy: Man has been apprehended looking suspicious at the cockpit area.

Josh: Yeah, that's all that got sold in. Yes, but then I'd have to— I'd run ads probably against—

Kim: but would that be negative PR?

Josh: No, because the thing is Virgin Australia is going to come out and say, absolutely, we have no problem with the masking. What we had issue with was the guy was screaming.

Kim: So will your face be anonymous?

Josh: Yeah, well, because the thing is that I'm wearing the plane face. It's the perfect disguise.

Tommy: We'll definitely hire an extra for it at least.

Josh: Yeah, absolutely. Let's get Mr. 97. Ever been to Sydney? Wanna go?

Tommy: Keep, keep that domain. So I was on your site and there was an area where you've just got a whole bunch of your illustrations and a little sentence about— I'm assuming what, what you were thinking around—

Kim: It was a small pleasures project. That I did a while back, 100 days of illustrations around a small pleasure.

Tommy: Yeah, so what I love is like I could take it, they're so relatable. These are the 4 that I've pulled up. You can't see them right now, but I'll just pick one and we can sort of talk about them because it's so— these are very relatable to a lot of people, I think. Is that how you approach?

Kim: Uh, I tried to make it as personal and esoteric as possible to me, hoping that that would have a like byproduct of being relatable. But first of all, that it was really specific to me, because if it's specific to me and I assume I'm not special, then it will be specific to other people who feel like they're really special for relating.

Tommy: So this one, you've just got someone wandering through a park and then they've found a marble on the ground and you've written keeping. It says, finders keepers, especially lost marbles. I found a marble only last week at the park. I was playing with my son. I'm like, That's mine. I was just remembering as a kid marbles were so big.

Kim: Yeah, they were currency for kids.

Tommy: Yeah, it was huge, the Pee Wee 50s, the ball bearing-y sort of ones.

Kim: It's also a reference to losing your marbles. Ah, have you lost your marbles?

Tommy: How much actually? So that's— I've lost my marbles. No, but I'm thinking about like when you— I look at a painting, right, and I could come up with sort of what it could mean. And you always hear what the artist has interpreted. And I wonder, and I've always wondered, is that post— is it a post-thought? So the creation happens and you're illustrating, you have just an intention or a thought and you get it out, and then you start making sense of why you did that post?

Kim: Like, I think everyone's different. Like, sometimes you set out to draw something or make something and it turns into something different. Sometimes you've got a really specific aim or vision or feeling or objective in mind, and then you do whatever it takes to get to that specific thing you had. So everyone's really different. I think with art there's no generalization.

Tommy: I've definitely watched edits of mine and I'm just like, that's what that means? I was like, I didn't even think that. I'm like, I see where I've connected that there, but I haven't thought about it.

Kim: The genius of your subconscious. You were in flow.

Tommy: Yeah, maybe that is, maybe that's my art form. I guess it is my art form.

Josh: Maybe you— I think we're artists.

Tommy: Yeah, it's my marbles.

Kim: You're a podcast artist.

Josh: Podcast artist. Podcast.com. That domain name is definitely available.

Tommy: Just podcast.

Josh: Podcastist. It's not good. Um, and so, and the 100 days, was that a specific I need to do something?

Kim: It's a hashtag, um, Instagram project thing. It was, um, started by Ella Luna from the States. Lovely lady. And, um, it was an artist honest. She wrote The Intersection Between Should and Must, which is a great book I recommend.

Josh: So what was this called?

Kim: Sorry, The Intersection Between Should and Must.

Josh: Okay, and it's illustrative?

Kim: Yes, got words and images and paintings. So it, uh, it was hashtag 100-day, or hashtag The 100-Day Project. So thousands of people around the world participated.

Josh: I had the domain name 100dayproject.com. No way! And I had these—

Kim: it's really popular—

Josh: the fucking The thing is, I've still got the Twitter of it. I'm pretty sure domain lapsed, but the— I let the domain lapse. And that's an example of that actually would have been, yeah, 100 Day Project.

Tommy: You're on it before.

Kim: I'm sure people will want to sell packages around 100 Day Project.

Josh: Well, that's what was going on.

Kim: Capitalize.

Josh: Isn't that so annoying that I like— see, the one domain name that I let— this way you can't let domain names go.

Kim: Yeah, well, how much time per week do you spend managing your domain names? And handles, social media handles?

Josh: Not much anymore because I've retired from social media, so it's a lot easier. But I don't know, I just want to make sure that this is right because I think—

Tommy: cheque that. So one of your other ones I loved was, um, the character— is this you? Yeah, I'll show you.

Kim: It's autobiographical.

Tommy: Hopefully the camera can see that, my dirty screen. But so there's you having a sneak peek into a book, and you've written sneak peeks at the last page of a book. I have done that and read the last page because I couldn't hold on. And Josh is a book man. Hang on, I've got something for you, Josh.

Josh: I've only just become a book man.

Tommy: This was downstairs, Josh.

Josh: That's exciting. I love book packages.

Tommy: I've just given Josh a package with a book.

Josh: Have you heard of worldbooks— worldofbooks.com?

Kim: No, is that your domain?

Josh: No, no, it's not. But fuck, just quickly, 100dayproject.com. You still got it? No. But I had it.

Tommy: And so someone got it now.

Josh: Yeah, someone's got it now. So I've got to go there and ask for it back. No, I don't, because the form of money— but the idea was that like I could have sold it. But then if you have a look, I still have confirm your Twitter account. This is 2010, 100 Day Project. Should I give it to— if someone wants 100 Day Project, message people who have a 100 Day Project. I can see it, maybe, maybe it's available again to them. But you know what, I had T2T on Twitter because I, I was like, you know, I went to, um, this was before Twitter got big, and I went into— is it too big, Twitter? Yeah, yeah, people know. If I said to Mum, hey, do you see anything on Twitter? She'd be like, yeah, I looked at Twitter yesterday.

Tommy: So that's actually looking at Twitter.

Josh: Yeah, she— that's how she keeps up to date with my brother in the US. Uh, but they don't call. Uh, but no, the, uh, what was I saying? Oh yeah, T2. I thought this is a perfect— I thought T2 was so hipster at the beginning. I was like, oh, this is like You remember tea was like a really big— like, when was it? 2007. It felt like there was a big move in Silicon Valley where everyone's like, oh, you need oolong tea.

Tommy: And if you're listening to Tim Ferriss, yeah, oh, he's saying words I don't know.

Josh: And it was like, that was good. That was also going to be my like, uh, way of losing weight was they said if you had pu-erh tea, you're going to lose weight.

Tommy: How about Greta from Skinny Me Tea? She made $20 million out of selling, selling, uh, selling a drink, detox teas.

Josh: I don't know about the detoxing.

Tommy: So what I thought is open the book and let's have a look at the last page so we see if we can gather what the book's about based on—

Kim: Some people are really purists about not doing that.

Josh: Really?

Kim: Is this like a— Some people are really against spoilers and it's not what the author intended, etc.

Tommy: So what you're saying is you're saving us from disappointing heaps of people that were going to read this book? Well, I guess spoilers, it's like a movie.

Kim: Or you can read the last page without telling people which book it is.

Josh: It's quite a quirky one. You don't have to read it, Dad. No, it's fine. Well, you're setting me up.

Tommy: I'm actually backing out of this idea.

Josh: I'm some pervert or whatever that's done some late— like the anarchist cookbook or something. No, the World of Books, used books, secondhand, and you buy them. It's great. And so that's what I've— like this.

Kim: This is from World of Books.

Tommy: And so what is the book?

Josh: Smell. Just smelling it.

Kim: It smells new. Does it? Like glue.

Josh: Uh, 97, can you grab the top book there please? You're in for a bit of a treat. Yeah, so smell this one. So this one I got yesterday.

Tommy: Dude on the front cover just punching a dart.

Josh: Yeah, it's like, yeah, it smells like Nana's house or what Nana's house used to be like. Um, yeah, so that's, uh, that's that book. But so this book here, this is slightly quirky. It's, um, this dude who— his name's Artie Lang. He was on a radio show, Howard Stern radio show, and he, um, got kicked off the show for— he had real issues with drugs or whatever. And right now, if you look, if you search, if you Google Artie Lang— so look at him there. TJ, can you tell me when the book was published? Do you know how to define that? Kim will show you. It's at the front.

Tommy: Printed in United States of America, book Design. Copyright 2018. 2009 Spiegel and Garou trade paperback edition.

Josh: So it's not that old, the book.

Tommy: 2009.

Josh: But this guy, uh, Artie Lang, has done so much coke and drugs.

Tommy: His nose is falling off, the poor dude. He looks like he's got a fake nose. He was— he's a comedian, and Joe Rogan, they're all sort of friends, and they just— I was showing photos of this same thing. So anyway, poor guy's nose bleeding in interviews. I mean, we're going pretty dark here, but this is his book.

Josh: Anyway, so this is his book. So maybe go to the—

Tommy: Too Fat to Fish, it's called.

Josh: Too Fat to Fish. So do you want to read just the last page?

Kim: Is this sponsored?

Josh: No, definitely not. I don't know if— I don't— wouldn't think it would still be in print.

Tommy: So this autobiography?

Josh: No. What do you reckon that is? So there's a bunch of like marks on the side.

Kim: Words at the top that you can see on the edge of the page.

Tommy: Yeah, it's a long— it's going to be long.

Josh: Can Kim read it please? The final The final sentence.

Tommy: Well, there's the open letter from Artie.

Josh: No, just read the very final part of the book. The very last word. Okay, here we go. Can you please?

Kim: Okay.

Josh: I'll do the last, yeah, from there.

Tommy: It's a really long paragraph.

Josh: That's okay, this is—

Tommy: you're the primed anxieties from school of talking in front of the group.

Kim: No, it's just a random book by a random dude.

Josh: Okay, it could be highly offensive and I'm sorry in advance.

Tommy: And Kim does not endorse this book.

Josh: Can you do it in an audible style, this is your opportunity to do it as an audio book.

Kim: Before I sign off, I'd just like to say, if you enjoyed this book at all, if maybe you found something in these pages that gave you a chuckle or caused an eye to tear or taught you a lesson about what not to do, tell a friend about it. Don't give them your copy, please. That's a bad idea. I hope you found at least one storey in here that you might want to reread. So no, don't give it away. Tell your friends, all of them, that they should buy this book. It's It's fine to lie to them about how good it is. The important thing is to tell them to buy it. Because lately I'm starting to think that on the show business drug addict forgiveness meter, I'm inching closer to Jeff Conaway than Robert Downey Jr. each and every day. Well, I gotta go. Take it easy. And I hope to see you all back here next book.

Josh: There we go.

Tommy: Is there a next book?

Josh: Yeah, I think there probably was.

Kim: I did not relate to any of that.

Josh: No, I don't. I think based on the—

Kim: Thank you for— for expanding my world.

Josh: Judging the book by its cover, I think you could probably do it in that case. That's pretty obvious.

Kim: So you paid money for that?

Josh: Did I pay money for that? Yeah, I did. I wanna understand the whole showbiz thing. I wanna understand like what was the point?

Kim: Because you guys are in showbiz.

Josh: Well, it's like, I think that we're in this new world and showbiz stuff is changing. So it's like, well, what is this? What does it all mean?

Tommy: We were talking yesterday about the, the unclear business model of being a creative, whereas it's similar from being a vet, very clear, being an illustrator. How do you deal with that sort of uncertainty as a creator?

Kim: Just take it by the day, improvise. Um, there's endless tips out there on the internet, at events, in real life from people. There's so many books you can read on it, so there's no shortage of tips and methods on what you can do to improve the way you run your art business and situation.

Tommy: Well, it's hard because I always see it as like the business side and the creative side. We need to be flourishing in the creative side to make any sense in the business side. I mean, there's probably some companies that are just purely engineering it from a business perspective that generates cash flow from the creative that is subpar. But as a creator, I know that it's like, unless I'm sort of fulfilled over here I don't want it to really be working over there, otherwise I'm really unhappy.

Kim: Yeah, I guess you need to wear different hats and also know that if you're working in a non-arts-related job at the same time as being in the arts, that you can be your own patron. I think I heard that somewhere from someone else. So you can fund your arts practise by working another job, which is great.

Josh: That's what I was saying to Tommy yesterday. I said maybe we just go back to Woolworths, go to Woolworths.

Kim: Yeah, that's a totally respectable—

Josh: it's like, it'd be easy. Like, I'm like, it's actually like, then it would be take out way less blurred lines.

Kim: Really smart. Yeah, I think it's a really wise move to go.

Tommy: As you're thinking, we should just both go work at Woolworths and then do some podcasts.

Josh: But the thing is, it would be like, I think I get a lot of material.

Tommy: Yeah, true.

Josh: It's therapeutic as well.

Tommy: Night shift.

Josh: I think that'd be so much fun. Don't you think?

Tommy: Well, I've worked jobs and I can't handle it. I think you have to experience the two. If you're itching in a job to try and do a creative endeavour full-time, I've done the two, and for me, I personally can't last in just the job. My mind is going crazy. I just want to be out. So the pain of working the job is greater than the pain of what I experience as a—

Josh: So what could be one? Like, I could be a security guard. I think I would be good at that. Well, just because of the like screens. I like the idea of, um, my job is to catch people out. Like, I would love to, and I'd create so many internet security. No, I would— I could just imagine I'd be at the control room and I'd like— someone walks in and I'd be focusing on the nut section of Woolworths because we know that's sort of a prime target for abuse. Yeah. And so I would just be watching. I'd be like, okay, like, I think that'd be so much fun.

Kim: To be a security guard? Yeah, but some of them stand outside doors. Well, they're not all in control panel rooms.

Josh: And that's the whole thing, I'd want to be in the control panel. Yeah, and there's probably something that's like, bro, isn't that what Homer Simpson did? No, he worked in a plant. No, no, he was looking after a reactor, but he had control panels. And he definitely had control panels, but the bit that I enjoy is the, uh, security stalking. Yeah, the stalking, the zooming, the voyeurism.

Tommy: You need the— to be the CCTV guy. So head office of CCTV.

Kim: Most of the time nothing happens.

Josh: Yeah, but I'm cool with that. I'm so like, listen to this podcast, like you can go a whole lap, it's like, but it's just like super, super chill. I could imagine if there was a— when I was a kid, I used to— my, my mum got so upset with me because I'd hide my— I got a microphone and an amplifier, like a speaker. I didn't play any instruments, but I would like just talk into it and I got a long XLR cable, like a mic cable, this thing here, and put the mic under the couch and ran the cable all the way into my room with my speaker and turned my speaker up. I could hear every conversation and I loved it. And so the idea of— Mum said, "You are sick." And she found that, she's like, "You are sick." And I was like, "Oh well." Sick was her description? Yeah, it was sick. It was sick.

Kim: It's not like, that's naughty.

Tommy: Yeah, what was she talking dirty?

Josh: What are you doing? It's like, are you curious? Like, yeah, that's very curious of you. That was—

Tommy: I think it's quite smart. Yeah, I'd be like, Bodhi, you're, you're a little wacko.

Josh: So, but, um, I get it when you feel like your privacy is being invaded, maybe that's an instant response. And so I would actually— I wouldn't mind as a legitimate job, PI, like private investigator, or even, um, the like bugging things, like being able to like be in a room.

Kim: What is it about it that you like about it?

Josh: Oh, I just always—

Tommy: Secrets?

Josh: No, it's not secrets. It's like, what are people saying when they're not on?

Kim: Like when they're just— A glimpse into people's inner worlds.

Josh: Yeah.

Kim: I like that too.

Josh: What would be your job? Like if you weren't an illustrator, you weren't doing any vet stuff, what would you do?

Tommy: And have you even, have you thought about, has there been a moment?

Kim: I would be a spy as well. I have had this conversation before, which sounds really unoriginal. 'Cause Josh just said the same thing.

Tommy: Do you have it based on thinking this is tough and you're actually dreaming about another possibility?

Kim: No, no, it's just based on like just daydreaming something completely different life that's novel.

Tommy: What is the difference we have in the conversation?

Josh: 'Cause it's like—

Kim: 'Cause you're bursting at your current job.

Tommy: This is hard. Like this is all hard.

Kim: No, I'm just doing privileged daydreaming.

Josh: Okay, yeah. And so what is—

Tommy: We are too.

Josh: What's the appeal? For you, for being a spy? It's the start of a great business op, I feel.

Kim: Well, it— I just, I like being sneaky and secretive. Not that I do that on a day-to-day, by the way, you can trust me. But just such a sneak— I just get such a— you just get such a rush from doing something you're not supposed to do. No one knows you're doing it, um, and it's, and it's helping a project as well.

Josh: Yeah, it feels like it's productive.

Kim: Yeah, it's productive.

Josh: Yeah, you tell. And so would it be a specific— if you actually were to imagine what it looked like, that job, is it more— I like the idea of being in a car, having some form of fast food because it's like, fuck, we need something quick, it just needs to be easy.

Tommy: I would say you've seen too many movies, but you actually haven't seen enough movies.

Josh: No, this is purely—

Tommy: it's actually just your imagination.

Josh: Yeah, like the idea of just being in the car, being able to have the aircon on.

Kim: I think you've got a more sedentary version of these things than I do.

Josh: So you're more out in the field? You're more like Mr. Invisible.

Kim: Yeah, we're like putting bug stickers on people's ceilings, like sneaking into apartments and then getting out the window just in time.

Tommy: I met the guy, I told you I met the guy who was like an ex-SAS dude. Yeah, like badass. And he's now a spy, like a private detective, so you can hire him. And he said that he was like going under cars, bugging them, going to hotel rooms behind the thing, like legit doing everything you're saying, but he also has the tactical skills to be able to disarm you if you have a gun in his face.

Kim: I would love those skills as well. I wouldn't want to use them, but I just think—

Josh: Disarming's fine.

Kim: Yeah, disarming skills, weapon skills, yeah, fighting skills.

Tommy: I feel like you both don't have any of that side of the equation. You could probably both be spies and stuff, but maybe that's how—

Josh: maybe we're more likely to be— like, we look like a spy.

Tommy: Oh, you're at HQ.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: Well, hearing like Kim would definitely—

Kim: We wouldn't talk about it on the podcast.

Josh: Well, I think you would be an intelligent— I think you would, I think, do you know what, if it was a movie, if it was the Kim Lam movie, I think what would actually happen is you would be the one that wants to be sent out in the jobs.

Kim: I'd be James Bond and you'd be—

Josh: But the thing is you're an intelligent mob. I don't know any references, remember I haven't seen—

Tommy: Have you not seen James Bond?

Josh: No, I haven't, no. Yeah.

Kim: That's incredible.

Josh: There's a lot of them.

Tommy: I'm worried about that.

Josh: But anyway, so the, uh, I could imagine that you want to be the spy, you want to be out on the scene, but you're just the intelligence, like you, you're in that role.

Kim: I'd be gathering the data.

Josh: Absolutely.

Tommy: But, um, well, that's the area you could play in, Josh, is the, the phone information. Like, there'd be spies that are just doing it from a computer.

Josh: Yeah, you don't have to go anywhere. I was watching Catfish and there was like the old, uh, world teen winner or whatever, you know, like they've got world competitions. What's the one that Trump runs?

Tommy: Oh, Miss Universe.

Josh: Miss Universe. It was like Miss Teen. It sounded really horrendous. But anyway, the winner of that, she had a guy who got her webcam on all the time or whatever, which is so like so, so, so bad, and was starting to, um, what's it called when you like say, hey, I got this information?

Kim: Extorting.

Tommy: Kim, you've got a little thing on your—

Josh: I was going to ask about—

Kim: I've got a panda sticker on my camera. Self-facing camera on my iPad. And I just realised just right now that the book I referenced, I think I read out the wrong title. I think it's The Crossway Between Should and Must, not Intersection.

Josh: Oh, that's okay.

Kim: Something between should and must.

Tommy: Facebook have just created these little things and sent them out to a whole bunch of agencies. Yeah, they're a sticker that has a little door.

Josh: So you can go, ah, yes, like a hardware sticker.

Kim: I would love that because I collect stickers.

Tommy: Well, it's an actual functional, it's a real functional sticker.

Kim: You can use any sticker though.

Josh: You've already got the Daily Talk Show, don't you?

Kim: This is a transparent sticker.

Tommy: Yes, that would work. Yeah, but the fake-up one is so you can— it's not like how many times I've had to rip off and it's been dirty adhesive on it. I just end up leaving it off and I don't do anything naughty anymore. I mean, not that I was doing anything naughty before. That sounded bad. I wasn't doing anything naughty to hide myself from. I'm in a corner painting myself. I've lost my marbles.

Kim: We're just not saying anything when you talk.

Josh: That's why I enjoy the iPad. When you started illustrating, like, do you get into stationery and stuff?

Kim: Yes. You mean digital stationery?

Josh: No, well, so what does that even mean?

Kim: Because you can draw on the tablet on this amazing app called Procreate.

Josh: And when you say digital stationery, do you mean like you can buy— do you buy these brushes?

Kim: You can make your own brushes. Yep.

Tommy: That's crazy.

Kim: You can have a brush that's your face. So as you do paint strokes, it's just paint strokes of your face repeating itself.

Josh: Have you done that?

Kim: I've created one just to see how to use it.

Tommy: Very self-obsessed for a person that— that's how all I paint with, but my face.

Josh: But that you could create something quite cool with that. But what was the transition from analogue to doing this?

Kim: I still do analog. I'm doing both all the time. Um, no transition because the pencil, which I don't have here, the Apple Pencil, has so little friction that it feels like using a normal, a normal pen or pencil or paintbrush. It It's instant.

Josh: You know the black— is it Blackwing?

Kim: Yes, the Blackwing pens.

Josh: Yeah, so— oh, that's cool.

Tommy: Could you draw me? Like, are you— you know how there's like, remember Mr.

Josh: Can You Make Me a Brush?

Tommy: Mr. Squiggle?

Kim: I can do a brush out of your face.

Tommy: Oh yeah, or do you take a photo first?

Kim: Yeah, you take a photo, but there's a panda sticker there, so I'm always so impressed by the people.

Tommy: It's probably the, the ones that I shouldn't be that impressed by, those people when you're on holidays in Europe and you see them just like charging €100 to do a caricature of someone's face.

Kim: I mean, yeah, those people are here in Melbourne as well.

Tommy: Really?

Josh: Really? Where?

Kim: In the city.

Tommy: I don't go out enough.

Kim: Yeah, on Swanston Street.

Tommy: I mean, I've never paid one.

Kim: Queen Vic Market.

Tommy: Interesting.

Josh: It's a funny thing to do as a local. Could you imagine being in your hometown and—

Kim: I did it as a local.

Josh: Really?

Kim: Yeah, maybe we could—

Tommy: we should get it done during high school.

Kim: You guys have good faces for caricatures.

Josh: What does that mean?

Tommy: Is that an insult or a compliment?

Kim: Charismatic faces.

Josh: You've complimented me. I hold on to compliments. Uh, Dr. Jason Fox, he came into the office the other day, said I was looking, uh, fit, which was nice. And you've actually—

Kim: means he was judging you.

Josh: Yeah, exactly, which I'm fine with as long as it's all positive. Um, but you're complimenting my nose. You said that.

Kim: Yes, you have good profile. Yeah, and you have the opposite nose to— well, you have a nose that is good for wearing glasses because your glasses will not slip off your nose bridge because you've got enough verticality in it. My glasses fall off all the time because I don't have a Western nose. So, uh, yeah, their glasses range in Australia and in general, um, the nose pads aren't built for faces like mine.

Josh: So there's so many, um, I feel like every optometrist that I've been to has been Asian, so I would assume they just don't make—

Kim: they just don't make them for them because your glasses bridge is resting on the skin of your nose bridge. It's touching.

Josh: So do you have to have a certain type of— but I'm constantly doing this still. Do you have to wear certain glasses then?

Kim: Uh, I wear the best glasses I can find, but when I went to Japan, these The nose pad bits were way longer. They look like antennae because there's, there's so much more space it needs to fill between.

Josh: Yeah, antennae is two antennas.

Kim: Yeah.

Josh: Okay, or more than one.

Tommy: I don't wear glasses. Is there a— do you, do you think that— I've got great eyesight, let's be honest. Um, do you guys want, like, not want to wear them? Is there like—

Kim: I, I don't mind the look of them, but, um, they are inconvenient because I have to switch between these and sunnies.

Tommy: Well, I mean, Josh has just eradicated everything now. Yeah, so can you— what can you see?

Kim: Um, I can see within a metre circumference around me and then it goes blurry and then it's— I can see 97's silhouette.

Josh: Yeah, great. I really appreciate that.

Tommy: Drop the mister just straight to 97. I like it a lot.

Josh: He's loving it too. It's got, it's got Going short. I've got to compliment 97. What about his nose profile? Turn around, go to your side.

Kim: I can't, I can only see the outline.

Tommy: He's got a good profile. Yeah, I mean, have I got a Western nose?

Kim: You do, you do. I think, um, some major glasses company even said for, for Asian profiles or something, and I don't know how I feel about that. They had a glasses range.

Josh: As in that, that is, um, what's wrong with it, do you think?

Kim: There's nothing wrong with it. It's just they should just have it anyway without saying it's for Asians.

Josh: Ah, yes. That's the same theory of like when people say, oh, I got like a skin-colored thing. And it's like, what? Which color? That type of thing. You know that? Like when I was a kid, like a pinky colour you'd call skin color, but super fucking racist really because it's like, it's this assumed thing that it's like, this is skin color. Everything else is fucked or something. Not that extreme, obviously.

Tommy: Well, Zoë Foster-Blake had this exact thing happened to her with the tan. She created one color.

Josh: She saw it as a tint though.

Tommy: It was one tint, sorry. I think this is where they went, oh, she's created one color. No, I created one tint. And as a small business, it's like, how many tints can you actually go and create? How much money would that be? And she got heaps of poundage.

Kim: Yeah, that's complex because that's also a deliberate decision. It's not black and white. Racist or not, but it's just that it is a deliberate decision to serve a specific market of the majority. And it— when you're making that decision, subconsciously you are deciding not to do things that serve another market. So I think people who have minority colours or tastes or sizes, um, do feel left out a lot. Like, after a while we get tired. You're like, we want our colour or our size clothes.

Josh: So, and so what's it— what responsibility do you think businesses have to service minority groups?

Kim: Oh, that's a hard question.

Josh: I feel like you're the only one that can answer it, so, because we can't.

Tommy: I think I'm just over here with a Western nose.

Kim: I think if they're not serving a diverse market, they need to have a stance on it, on, on why, or if they're, if they're trying to change. And I think it's fine for small businesses to to get to choose who they're serving.

Josh: Could you say like, because the iPad's not ideal for someone without hands, so you could say like—

Kim: but you can use your nose on the iPad.

Josh: Okay, sure, even an Asian style, non-Western.

Kim: There's a designer that has RSI, um, I think her profile went viral, and she uses her nose. She made a touchpad for her nose.

Josh: Did you see that? No, but I use it close to the thing. I, I use my foot, like say if I'm, if I've got like a drink. Do you do this too, TJ? So if I need to get to like Instagram, I don't know anyone who does that.

Tommy: I just actually like the challenge. It's more just like, can I actually—

Kim: what other appendage can I get into this?

Josh: That's the only one I need. It's like, it's got like good— like, it's sort of— I don't know.

Kim: Does your eyesight go funny?

Josh: Because you're— no, because I'm literally like just—

Tommy: I will, um, double up on the compliments that you've been getting about your nose, Josh. I think it is probably the greatest nose to be doing what you're what you're wanting to do.

Josh: Yeah, it's got a good point to it. Yeah, but the problem is got a double point. Double point. I have a bit of sun damage, cartilage division, sun damage on my nose. I feel like it's healed well. I would say it was a scab last time you saw it.

Tommy: I've always had, I've more so sunglasses because it's sort of, you don't see the eyes, but I've always felt like looking even in the mirror, I've stood there for a little while looking at myself and I get to this point where I— it looks like my nose is fake. It looks like my nose is being held on because it's too perfect.

Josh: No, not because it's a Western nose.

Tommy: No, but I just— the way that it just looks like a—

Kim: it's, you know, why does it look fake?

Josh: I don't know.

Tommy: I just—

Josh: because it's sort of like it almost sits out.

Tommy: It looks like it's connected to the sunglasses because of these bits. Yeah, so for there, it looks like it's just been—

Kim: looks like an incognito mask.

Josh: Yes.

Tommy: Like, it's like I've got a fake nose on. And I just, next time you're wearing sunglasses, just spend a few minutes in the mirror.

Kim: I didn't notice that when I first saw your face with sunglasses.

Tommy: You didn't think I had a fake nose? No, I'm a bit weird.

Kim: It looked real.

Josh: What do you reckon?

Tommy: It's definitely real. Yeah, it's a real nose.

Kim: You can get a fake nose. This is a horror storey doco that I saw when I was a kid of people who have had really unfortunate, I think probably cancers or something's happened to them so that they've had to have bits of their face removed surgically because it had disease in it. So there's this old man who had his ear, his nose, cheekbone, chin, like a lot of his upper teeth had to be removed. And he, and he showed what his face looked like without all these things, and it was saggy and not held together. But then he had this amazing prosthetic set, this kit of his face that would be magnets that would just click into his face. 'cause he was old anyway, you couldn't really see where it joined. And then he looked completely healthy and normal once all of his facial features were clicked on.

Tommy: I see, Mr.

Josh: Potato Head.

Tommy: I would literally say to that guy, mate, it looks like your nose is fake, it's amazing. Have you seen with glasses on? I'd say something like that. But you could have like—

Kim: But I was just so impressed that that could be made for someone so they can keep living their lives.

Josh: That's what I wonder, like even I wonder about like core strength. I'm banking on not doing Pilates with the idea that in the next 10 years there's going to be something that's going to fucking look after that for me.

Tommy: No quick fix, mate. No, but just like I said, I was listening to a guy who's an anti-aging expert and he said half of the medications that we've got that we're testing require exertion as well. So it's like, it's actually—

Josh: I'm not talking medication—

Tommy: assisted with exercise.

Josh: I'm talking like a full brace. With like legs so that you actually— the one risk is that we all become these soft, no muscle, because you don't have to use any, because you just—

Kim: it's like in the Wall-E movie, but you wouldn't have seen it.

Tommy: It's like saying the pill— I'd rather take— if you could take a pill to lose weight or something, be healthy, would you? But it's like the benefits from our reality that come from exercise are still there, and so it's good, like the physical exertion is good.

Kim: Yeah, I think, yeah, I think it would make life really boring if you could just have a solution to everything with a pill or a button.

Tommy: Yeah, what would we do?

Josh: Have you ever, uh, what's the, uh, ADD drug that people get right into?

Tommy: Ritalin.

Josh: Ritalin. Have you ever tried?

Tommy: Right into it?

Josh: No, I haven't, because that's like a thing, that is a thing like academic, like if you need to focus, to focus. I've never worked on anything important enough that requires me to, but nor maybe have the people that take these things.

Tommy: They just think that they need to take them.

Josh: Well, big hours of like studying and stuff. What was your hacks for like getting through study?

Kim: This is why I don't drink coffee. Um, I had Nescafé, but heaps and heaps of it, teaspoon into a mug and sugar, the same amount. Really? To get through an all-nighter and Red Bull. So I can't drink coffee anymore.

Josh: You do CrossFit now or what do you, what sort of?

Kim: No, I just go to the gym.

Josh: Okay, great. Was that— has that come later in life, or were you always a gym goer?

Kim: No, I've never been that physically active, um, because the job was already active. But I think 2 years ago Jason and I joined a gym that made us pay just a bit more than we were comfortable, so we actually go.

Josh: Really?

Kim: Yes, I think we love that now.

Josh: The F45 model?

Tommy: Yeah, just like, like you pay through the nose, but then you're committed to it.

Kim: And we hate the The concept of having to pay to go, but actually nothing else works.

Josh: I see, I need to get better at that. Like, I'm fine with having a lot of domain name subscriptions and not utilising them. So the trick isn't working for me at the moment.

Tommy: Well, I've always, 'cause I used to work in gyms, when people would complain about the cost, if the cost is why you go, then that's keeping the accountability. Or if driving to the gym is the only way you'll get there.

Kim: And you get value from it too.

Josh: Yeah. And so what is a day?

Tommy: This is not an ad for F45.

Josh: No, well, you don't do F45 though, do you? No, I don't. And so the— your day now, like, what is— what does that look like? Do you have— I want to get to a point where I have a strict routine. I just don't have it. What do you have?

Kim: I love a routine as well.

Tommy: Um, do we know anyone with a strict routine? You have one.

Josh: I think you've said— what did you just say?

Tommy: She said Tim Ferriss.

Josh: Tim Ferriss.

Tommy: Psychopath.

Kim: No, no, he just experiments with different routines.

Tommy: Yeah, yeah. I just like selling the route. I don't know what your routine is, but like, I feel like I'm finding little things that are working for me.

Josh: Waking up at the same time.

Kim: Yeah, your word for the year is consistent, right?

Tommy: And I have been. Gym every second day regardless.

Kim: Amazing.

Tommy: Went last night, got home at 8:30.

Josh: Mine was— what was mine? Uh, consumption.

Kim: Uh, like considered consumption or something.

Tommy: It's two words. I'm glad you almost remember his word then. I mean, you remembered mine.

Josh: Uh, no, what was it? Positive? No. Considered?

Kim: No, it was considered.

Josh: No, it wasn't considered. It was something like it because you thought that I was talking about my rubbish, my waste. It was—

Kim: consumption is—

Josh: yeah, it's not considered. It's very similar to considered. Anyway, boring. But I've, um, I haven't been that great at the consumption. Like, just, uh, had Ferrero shares last night, which wasn't very considered.

Kim: Chocolate's your nemesis, isn't it?

Josh: 100% is my nemesis. It's like the thing that it's not even, it's any type of chocolate, dark or whatever.

Kim: That's me and cheese, even singles, Kraft singles.

Josh: Same with me.

Kim: It's up there with the most expensive cheese.

Josh: We had the vintage, we had the vintage sliced cheese that we're eating so much of, like you could just eat it as a, fold it up and I would like, oh shit, I accidentally got 4 slices. It wouldn't, wouldn't mind.

Kim: That's unfortunate.

Josh: No, it was perfect. What's your, so what is your routine? What do you do?

Kim: Okay, I try not to set an alarm but obviously I do. So I like to get 8 hours of sleep.

Tommy: Have a kid, you don't need to set an alarm.

Josh: It's great.

Kim: I've got a cat.

Josh: Yeah, true, true.

Kim: The cat gives me 3 heads up before I wake up.

Josh: Really? So you don't keep the cat like locked up anywhere?

Kim: No, no, she's free to roam.

Josh: Okay.

Kim: Yep. Why lock her up?

Josh: Well, so my cat, which that's her name, M-Y-K-A-T, I named her. Mum and dad obviously look after her now, that it's their cat. But they have to have this—

Tommy: Still called Mike out there.

Josh: They have to, they've blocked the whole front room as hers and they're like, I had a chopping board fall on my foot because when I was leaving work I'd used the wrong door and they have to sort of create all of these things so the cat can't get in. Because if they get into, she will just like jump on your face and stuff.

Kim: Ah, yep.

Josh: So your cat's pretty good?

Kim: She's pretty good, yep. She'll jump over you like a rainbow.

Josh: Okay. And so you get woken up, so you wake up at what time?

Kim: So I get a soft awakening by cat disturbances that don't quite wake me up. And then I generally wake between 7 and 8:30 around that time.

Josh: 7, 8:30.

Kim: And then I put on the kettle. Actually, I've done a storey about this. And then I attend to all the orifices. That's what I call it. Sounds a bit vulgar. Wow. So I've got an illustration of this. So I put eye drops in because my eyes get really dry overnight, and then I get Q-tips or cotton tips and clean my ears because it feels waxy in the morning. And then I blow my nose, and then I drink water, and then I brush my teeth, and then I go to the toilet. And then, yes.

Josh: Can I say, have you got a toilet one as well?

Kim: No, that's the toilet metaphor there.

Tommy: This is a good routine. It's not too out there.

Kim: It's normal. Some people don't do every orifice like I do.

Josh: That's the title of the show, the eye drops.

Kim: Don't take that out of context as a choice quote.

Josh: Choice quote.

Tommy: I will animate it.

Josh: It's going to be great. The eye drops, I don't put them in because I worry that I'll then have a dependency. Because Christian Hull, who we had on the show, has a nasal I was gonna say nasal douche, but it's not a douche, it's a nasal spray. Splash? Yeah. Yeah.

Kim: Well, I have to, 'cause I know my eyes are dry in the morning and my optometrist has drawn a picture for me of what it looks like. Like regardless, I have this crescent of dryness that looks like a moon shape dryness 'cause I don't blink all the way down to my lower eyelid.

Josh: What does that mean?

Kim: You can't see it, but if I close my eyes, it doesn't quite touch.

Josh: Oh really?

Tommy: We could get it in slow-mo on our camera. We could get that in super slow-mo.

Josh: So after this, we're gonna get it on a, Oh, we've got my macro, we've got the macro lens in 100 frames per second.

Tommy: That would be cool.

Josh: Might be able to see it.

Tommy: I have to do the annoying thing of wrapping this up.

Josh: Let's do it. Well, because we need to get this footage.

Tommy: I've got a meeting in 5 minutes.

Josh: Danger Lam.

Tommy: And my word's consistent, so I have to make sure I hit the time that I'm telling people.

Josh: No, I appreciate it. Danger Lam, Kim Lam, thank you for coming on to the podcast, and we should definitely do this more regularly.

Tommy: Yeah, if you want a solid 10 15 minutes of fun. Look at the animations, the 100-day challenge that you did. There's 100 there.

Josh: Is that what I went through?

Tommy: Sorry, illustrated. Yeah, illustrated. There's 100 there.

Kim: There's 100.

Tommy: Yeah, they're awesome.

Josh: I might have removed a few that I didn't like, but really, probably they were too edgy. You, you regretted the orifice. Me too. The Daily Talk Show, everyone. Hi@thedailytalkshow.com if you want to send us an email. See you tomorrow.

Tommy: See you guys.

Josh: Bye.