#248 – Start By Copying People/
- December 27, 2018
The Daily Talk Show — Thursday December 27 (Ep 248) – Josh Janssen & Tommy Jackett
Our final day with Matt D’Avella in Sydney! On today’s episode of The Daily Talk Show, we chat about replicating people’s creative work, listening to a podcast and feeling like an expert, improvised verses scripted filmmaking and Matt’s favourite video on his YouTube channel.
Matt’s YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCJ24N4O0bP7LGLBDvye7oCA
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Wait a minute, cross face.
worth recording with Josh Janssen and Tommy jacket. It's a daily Talk Show episode. 248 final day in Sydney. Yeah, for me anyway. Well, I'm up here. I got the family stuff happening. Yeah. So I'll be back before the new year before our 200 and 50th episode, which is New Year's Eve, which is pretty cool. Is Yeah, yeah. It's a first day of our still Mandela still
I'm still here.
Come to Australia. You live in a lies? Yes. No. And so we can at least get you on. You know, if anyone is wondering, that's not
now just a part of our show. Maybe I am we
calling me tick tick for the past three days, tick tick shot. Yeah, a lot of tick tick jokes.
Go back to Monday. Yeah.
I gotta say that I'm so impressed with you guys how you like literally, like hit record. And you're like, this is gonna be the episode and there's gonna be no editing and we're just gonna post it up incomplete. Because I feel like I'm such a. I don't know. I'm like this. I'm not very good. was speaking. And oftentimes, I have to edit myself to make myself sound smarter than I actually am.
Does it give you anxiety coming on a show like this?
The first time it did the first episode. But now I've gotten warmed up, which the tick tick one, the one before that?
I actually had more anxiety on your format because of the structured. Did you notice a difference between us in your format? Like do you think that your style brings like it's a certain? Like, he drives back? Well, you gotta you gotta arrive when he coming on your podcast. It's almost like how I say people when they go on Joe Rogan is it's like there's a intensity to it. Do you get better because now when people go on your show, they gonna have at least 30,000 people watching the video.
I don't know if I sense the pressure from people. I think people will naturally and I didn't I didn't sense it really from you, you guys. I think like naturally, I was wearing makeup. But
I didn't know this until
January makeup. Yeah, I do. I do that sometimes, too. Because I get these massive pimples. And I'm like, I don't want this to be there forever. Yeah, so why can't men wear makeup?
Baby? When I was I was young and had bad acne, but
never wore makeup before.
You guys are destroying it. But what I want to say is like, I don't know, like it had nothing to do with the the the audience sizes. But like, I felt much more comfortable recording the podcast I did with you guys that I was on my own show the ground up show. Maybe one is because it's more loose, and maybe more. So the host has more of an obligation to keep things going than the guests. But also just the fact that it wasn't filmed. We were just sitting on my couch. It just felt so much more casual and conversational. And I think that's the biggest benefit of podcasting is because is because it's so easy. It's like you don't have to do the video and shoot everything. Who
do you listen to?
I mean, Oh, sure. Yeah, the the usual suspects. I mean, I don't listen to many anymore. I don't make that much time for it. But like in the past and every once while I listen to Joe Rogan, Tim Ferriss, my friend Jason and Caroline's have a good podcast called aiming wonderfully, which is interesting. Yeah,
I love the YouTube channel. Yeah,
they have great YouTube videos. And I know they're starting to double down on on their videos. They've done a great job. But yeah, do you guys listen to many podcasts? Yeah,
I mean, I'm subscribed to a lot. So uh, but I sort of dip in out just to try and say like, what people are talking about what they're into. I was surprised at how many you actually do listen to Josh. Yeah, I she's like, I think it's so impressive. I tried to wide Ryan Yeah, I go through stages of like, deep dive consuming heaps of people stuff. So I'm like, Josh pick from Drake. And Josh. I'll go through and discovered he's got a podcast and I'll go through and listen to three or four. And get a good sense of what he's doing. You look at the monopoly that Rogan has, like, as much as I like him. I also like the people that are coming on the show, and he has epic guests. So it's like you then get this trap of life. He's got Yeah, yes. Got you at the top with the Oprah effect. I think that like I worry that what you get a cat? No, I just worried that it's a bit Rogan and given away shit, let's be honest, you just have I got a little bit of flux. Flux on the mic? No, I think that you can start to everyone can start to think the same way. I feel like Joe Rogan, like the conversations I have with people who listen to Joe Rogan all seem to sort of go the same way. I don't know why as well. Well, I just think that it's like it may be fills this intellectual void that people have. So they end up leaning on a lot. And it sort of how can whatever the podcast is the Joe Rogan's done that week, it turns out that that's the solution to this problem. So all of a sudden, it's like, oh, yeah, that sounds like I'm not feeling good. Oh, well, that's got health. But then if you catch him on another week, it's like, whatever, that specific person that was talking about, yeah.
And I think I fall victim to that as well, where like, you watch a documentary on food, and you are now a food expert. And now you can advise anybody on what their diet should be. And I think it comes like, with not wanting to appear like a dick or no at all. And just to be like it, I think it starts interesting conversations with people. But not assuming that that conversation Joe Rogan had is going to solve diabetes.
What what's the default style of podcasts that you listen to?
Well, I you know, the one that I remember like that really got me interested in podcasting and wanting to do a podcast was actually Freakonomics, which is more scripted structure. Really well produced. And that's actually originally what I wanted to do, was actually do its work. Yeah, exactly. And I didn't, you know, I was like, wow, that's like half the work of video, it's actually gonna be a lot easier. But then I'm like, why would I go and interview people and cut these stories together without filming them? Because filming is what I do. That's just seems like a missed opportunity. So then I started, I said, you know, what actually would be better would just be to actually have conversations with creatives. Because it doesn't take as much creativity. And it actually is, it's great way to just network and meet with new people. I think the one problem people run into is that they try to be the next Joe Rogan. Gary Vee. Casey, is that Yeah, and they just replicate what they're doing.
I think there's a lot of people doing that with your stuff at the moment. You think Have you seen it? Yeah, I've seen it but not in I'm not saying in a negative way for the Yeah, them I think it's a compliment to you. And for them, it's somewhere to start. And so whether it be the kind of grade that you put on your videos, or the this layout of your channel, it's I think it is, if there is no manual out there that will work. So it's trying something and I know I definitely have probably copied people's styles in the past to then try and just work out what it is. And I don't know if I've even found that in my style. It's just like I'm trying to be more me and do what comes to mind natural like naturally so what what is just the extension of what I think in what I want to do, and so is there for you. Do you see what you're doing is a style
it's this really interesting this kid this YouTuber, I forget his name, but he just recently did a breakdown one of my videos, which is like wild. It's just that to me, it's still crazy. To think this is a this is how Matt developed makes videos and he knows what I know is not the parody Sterling Grinnell did a parody. And I actually ended up having him on the podcast because it was like he basically made this whole video and uses hashtag get Sterling on match podcast. And it was all about he did a parody of me just saying like a guy. It was like it made me sound a little bit pretentious. And like the fact that I everything needs to be perfect cuz I'm not develop my coffee needs to be made in this way and shot this way because I'm not develop
like laughing but also like, Fuck you. Yeah,
I was actually on the toilet.
And I was honestly like, when I first started watching it, I thought it was one of my videos. I was like, This kid just saw my video and put it on Instagram. And I'm like, wait a minute. Wait a minute, this guy's talking about me. I was really awesome. That was really one of the first time somebody had done something like that. And it happened with what this kid just did like a breakdown and I actually the crazy enough like, you know, this kid got a nice subscriber base 50,000 subscribers. He's really talented. Like, he seems like he's a really young kid, but just doing great work. And I watched one of his videos just randomly about two months ago, yeah. of him breaking down somebody else's filmmaking style. And I actually pulled out one of the techniques that he taught and put it into one of my videos. What was the technique? It was the I want to call it the vertigo type of fact, where you're actually like scaling up the video as you're pushing in this kind of weird, it's the jaws of fact when you're coming in and I actually looking bigger but the Yeah, and I actually didn't
really warping this way just on the Sydney Harbour and they've got the thunder
just capsized to be on
40 tourists, you can't go
there. You can't go on if you get like back injuries or pregnant. You
know, it looks legit. Like they just whipped them like crazy. But this kid did a breakdown and that yes, I was so I got that vertical fact I was that's really cool. I didn't even think doing that. I actually didn't know that you could do that in post production and recreate what would be like a, like an actual manual push and with a zoom. Yeah. And I just did a couple times in the video. And then he did a thing a breakdown of my videos. And I just comment I was like, Dude, this so cool.
I was just watching you get it right. Did you
get some of the techniques? most interesting thing that he said, I think that some people look too far into color gray tones and the stuff and it's like, I'm just trying to make it look dope. Yeah. Like there's
I just copied and pasted. And then I use the same lead on everything, because I think it just looks good. I think,
you know, Josh, and I break down a lot of what people are doing and just more conversation between us and what people are saying to like, yeah, we ran into, but I think it's a bit of fun a lot of the time. And you can totally reading what someone's doing. And they're probably like, that's like, it's intuitive. You could go this is someone's social media strategy, strategy, but it's actually just their intuitive approach approach to social media. And it's like, well, I just feel like you're going to post this time. And then you say, No, they actually, if you look deeper than that, it's you could find something. Yeah,
what he found was really interesting. He's like, it's a mix between a documentary, a box, a video, a YouTube video, a vlog, and I maybe there was like one or two other things I was like, that's really interesting, because that's like, and it is kind of like that, because I do incorporate some blogging elements to it every once in a while. It's kind of like a natural on the fly type pieces. Like it's almost like very a which is like a fancy way of saying like in the moment like just capturing a fly on the wall type deal. And then obviously, feel me a fly on the wall. Yeah, yeah. Now that would be that would be kind of a fly on the wall, though. Yeah, Varitek. But so I was like, that's interesting. Just like that, I guess my mind is mesh of the styles and primarily documentary driven, because that's where I got my start. But and so what do you think when it comes to young people starting something? And they're like, Oh, actually, the barrier here is, they're not going to do it? Because they think they're copying somebody. Copy somebody? Yeah, I think you should copy people. copy me, I don't care. I copy people when I first started out with visual style, or watching a film and getting inspired by and wanted to create your own, but then don't be so tied to that. And don't like expect to become successful because you're copying somebody. But I think that you will learn in the process of doing that you'll learn how to get better as a creative. What's one skill that you don't have that you wish You did? Oh, that's like a good job interview question. How can I
become the co host? Yeah, for me, I wish I was better at design and motion graphics. Yeah,
I think that's always one of the things that's like,
it's such a, it's a bit of a, it feels like one of those things where you could then just become the button pusher Tim Curry like, it feels like one of those jobs where it's like, there's also like a bunch of really crazy I do have people in Eastern Europe who are doing it for super cheap. To like
I get I get very jealous of like great animation and videos, just because I know I don't have the time or money to put into adding those into my videos. And I wish I could. But it's just like this is not that practical. And also just the the, the nature of having the messiness of filmmaking and having not really knowing what your final product is going to be until you really get it cut. And like have a first v one is tough when you're trying to put out a video a week, and then it bring an animator in with the last two days to make an animation for it, it just seems like it's not worth the effort. But that that's big, I think like being the the Gary Vee type personality, which I in a way I envy how off the cuff he can be and how he can create an interesting piece of content by simply talking. And I don't think I'm that person, I think that I have to actually put a lot of thought into my videos, which makes me different at the same time, life would be a lot easier. Do you think that that's like,
self talk? That might not actually be true? Like cuz you throughout this whole week, you've been on this podcast, and you've been able to spit ball? Is it that you don't necessarily like the style law? Do you think that it's Do you think it's something that as you produce more and more you'll get more comfortable with doing it off the careful? Or do you see the benefit? And
maybe maybe you're right, maybe it's like the fact that like, I think people come to see my videos, because yeah, it's more thoughtful and edited. And I think that like that's what makes me different. So in a way, I truly don't think I'm as good off the cuff as some of these other people. And maybe that's a bit of my perfectionist tendency as well. But I think all of that drives me to want to tell stories in the way that I do. So even though it's something that I wish I was better at. Because on it's like sometimes I have to do a lot of takes to get like a just a quick sound bite for one of my videos. Is this a 200? Does it What are you shooting? What settings you shooting at a 4k log on that wrong? No, no. I mean, I actually had a red and I decided to sell it. It was originally for freelance work. And then I started using it for YouTube videos, and it slows you the fuck down. So I eventually got to see 200. And that's a lot quicker, even in 4k super quick to edit.
What's the what sort of data are you showing through? a?
It's not? It's not that crazy? I mean, I don't know, what do I have, like compared to the right? Compared to the red? It's like, dude, I could shoot all day on it. Yeah, but I don't know, my projects might be 100 to 200 gigabytes in terms of file size, which isn't that bad. I mean, like, if I was shooting on a read, it would be 500 to a terabyte, a terabyte, which is not
the doc Oh stuff, the doing a feature length versus shorter type of things. Do you think that you you have on the cards to produce a feature like you did with me symbolism,
I think that I would like to do another feature. When once you finish the feature, the first thing you think is I'm never going to do that again. Because it was so hard. It was so challenging, and it was oftentimes stressful. But then the fact that I happened that happened to do well in the first one and actually helped a lot of people made it worth it. And I think it would be interesting to take my style of YouTube doc type videos now and expand it and say hey, let's take let's take a topic in my own voice. It's something that I haven't done in a long format that I think would be interesting to explore. So I mean, I would like to eventually do that and then potentially there could be a nice crossover with like even doing a YouTube Red version which
holler at you boy
college your boys. YouTube YouTube just gave me the my hundred thousand plaque. Ah, yeah,
cut it in half like all those
now I think I'm gonna give it away
once it I know
I think people would like that imagine like getting Casey nice dad hundred K, man. I think it's great. Now you're not Casey nice.
When I was a kid, I was wasn't athletic at all. So I used to have my brothers and my dad's trophies up in my room. Collect trophies i'd so many and goosebumps books that I never read, because I didn't know how to really read. So I had like, fuck if I get to you know, sure. Yeah.
That's good, though. I think people would want that. I
think it's a sham young aspiring YouTuber, which I think it would be weird. Yeah, I
guess it for me. I wouldn't want somebody black. But I'm a minimalist. So yeah,
I don't want any shipping. Imagine someone else's block in your house. Yeah.
You got 100,000 months. You know, that's Matt.
That's 100% house. It's like the equivalent of saying, Hi, this next film. I'm giving away a director credit.
Taking somebody me. No, that's Matt. It's kind of funny, though.
How do you get it? What happened? What's the deal?
They didn't give it to me for a while because like now I'm at 700 but like it they just they meant it after like, you know a little while a couple months after you get past hundred thousand subscribers. They send you this silver play button plan
when you get to a million which is that should be next year. Yeah. Yeah,
this is not been the plan. Yeah. I didn't mean that. This many. What's your relationship like with YouTube? Have you got access to YouTube Space now? No, I've never talked to anybody on YouTube. I you know, it's weird because I don't monetize my videos. So I'm not a YouTube partner. It's kind of weird, isn't it? Yeah.
So that I have your address, and I just
did you know, because I just because I they had this form. In order to get it. I had to go through I went through Twitter help with YouTube. Yeah. And then they sent me the info and then they sent me the blackout
to reach out to them. This is like you said this is like when? I'm not sure. No, it's probably not in America, Australia. And probably the UK when you are Australia versus us gear a voice doesn't really turn 100 I used to think I you get a letter from the queen. Yeah. And so the part of the Commonwealth my grandpa turned 200 no later had to go through to to help to get it. Had to submit this thing and we ended up getting the letter from the quaint Really? Yeah, that's really neat. So you put it but it's as much hard work as fucking YouTube make it
the dad should give it away. Give it away on YouTube.
saying sorry for that. Who are you favorite YouTubers?
favorite YouTubers? It's a good question. I do watch Collin and Samir. It's like it's funny because it's people that I know people that I'm friends with. Like when they come out with a new video. I watch it because I'm like, Oh, I'm like curious to see what they're up to what they created. I like Mango Street. I think they're really awesome people. And they make Do you know them? Yeah, yeah, they make. I love this their style though, too, because they show that you can be introverted and be great YouTubers,
and tell great stories reverted nowadays is just super hipster. Yeah, they're
like cool introvert. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So I definitely watch like their videos. And I
want you to log is you what's what's your take on on blogging, bang and the YouTube sighs
I don't know. Like, I mean, I like partly like envy the people that are really good at blogging and can just grab a camera and like run around and talk and chat because like, I tried to shoot this thing in Sydney because I did staying healthy while traveling video. I tried to shoot the Outre walking through the airport in Sydney. And I just had like severe panic attack. Because it's so embarrassing. So thanks for watching. People passing me and I'm like everybody knows my fucking piece of shit. And it was like really like it was it was hard for me to do and it I didn't end up using it in the video. I just ended up shooting B roll and then voiceover voicing it at the end. Because I'm just not good at that. I don't have enough confidence. Yeah.
Do you show anyone new videos before you put them online?
No, I just don't have the time. I don't have enough time for an approval process helps me like
yeah, move quickly. Do you want like, I feel like I can watch my stuff too many. Like, if I watch it too many times, especially when it comes to the export. I feel like I've watched this so many times that I'll sometimes not watch it. And I remember I did that once years ago and then like uploaded something I had like a rent on rented shit. So
I don't do it. Like I make sure I do one more pass when it's on YouTube. Jamaica, I do one more pass. And it's usually either on my phone or on my laptop. That way. I can also hear it from that perspective of like a lower grade mic, or speaker. And that helps. But it is yeah, like, the thing that I know is that if I show it to somebody to review, I know that that may not quite get it. And she may not quite understand that that part wasn't funny. video because you don't think that part was funny. I'm going to I'm just going to deal with my mistake and just post it.
Is it the way you learn?
Well, I remember actually, I think I learned that lesson early on with my parents and showing them videos that I made, like parody rap videos, and like they were shitty, and they were bad. But at the same time, they're pretty decent for my age and my skill.
And your parents on your audience here
in the audience. And then they will actually make Haha, yeah, no, like they would not even like say Good job. Or like, maybe that's a good job. But it was like I could tell I was like you guys didn't like this. And then I just felt deflated after creating this thing and being so proud of it. And I'm like, the lesson was who gives a shit what people think about it, just upload it and then make the next thing
so many times like, I'll show you something to someone, and they'll give advice that's not really relevant to what I'm wanting like, feedback. Why's that? They'll say like, to your point with not saying all that jokes, not funny, where you can pretty easily excuse that because you're like, I'm not asking you about that. Like, that's not what I'm taking sort of criticism on. Yeah, what is what are you? What are you actually normally looking for when you're looking at criticism? Is it like, volume music volume? Like, can you hear it?
That's that's I think, maybe one but I think that I kind of get over it. Because like that you can get away with a lie on YouTube, people put up something on my way that audio is like you have to consistently turn the volume up and down to be able to listen to it. I think it's like, is my point coming across? Do you understand my, my perspective? Have I given you enough context about this subject? Before I dive into it? And like I think it's like, does it make sense? Because I think I'm very much I try to tell stories and maybe make an argument or maybe like, explain the full picture. And sometimes it's hard when you're in the middle of it to really know Oh, I should have told people that I've had this such and such experience or to really lay the foundation for the story. Well, yeah, you can overcome contextualize for the viewer. Yeah. And then you can overdo it over explain. And it's like, and I think that's actually one of the important things about editing is just edit down. And like, maybe it's a 12 minute video at first, but I'm like, I could probably cut out a lot. Like I feel like people don't do that enough, where their videos are too slow. It's like you could really like pick up your storytelling because you're you have extra shit in here. You don't need
what about people who just edit super quick, because I feel like this the two extremes, there's the editing really slow, and then thinking that pace is about just cut, cut, cut, cut, cut, cut, cut. What like how do you actually find the middle ground? How do you do you have rules around when to cut from a shot when to hold on to you? When do you show your face versus showing below? That is interesting because
that is like something that I think about? Well, it has left to do with like, rapid cuts like the pace of the storytelling has nothing to do with like, quick music and quick cut single and Papa button. Keep going. It's more so like, is the story carrying you along? Is the music like interesting? Have I used too much music at this point? Am I able to have music? From epidemic sound? That's what I have a subscription to them. That's where I get most of it. Thanks. You just emailed me recently. And we're like, hey, Matt, we we just saw a video you made. We really liked it. So we just gave all your money back. Yeah, like Thanks, guys. That's really cool.
What do they wanted me to be a like a partner? Yeah.
What's the what's the cost? Like? Do you know? It's like 50 bucks a month or something? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah,
I think I was maybe like, 20. It wasn't crazy. But it was like for unlimited music. Yeah, it's a no brainer. But the storytelling is, yeah, well, you know, what I think is the most important is like the first 15 to 30 seconds is I need to make it really interesting. And until let people know exactly what this is going to be about. And I had to hook people in. So I usually put a disproportionate amount of time on that. Or it could just be like the like, slowing down video, where it's just like, this video is going to be about what the past two years have taught me about slowing the fuck down and then boom, intro with a bit of music and then always trying to think about like, how can I make this funny? How can I make it entertaining? How can I make sure that it's not too dry,
cutting arms and ahhs always, yeah,
and my actual YouTube videos, arms and ahhs would likely not be in there, just because a lot of its voiceover driven.
Do you ever? Like I find sometimes like, you
know, yeah, yeah, right. Well, that's actually funny because sometimes there is like a fake authenticity or fake voiceover and it's like, so I was going to the store. Like I didn't, this wasn't written down on paper. So I try not to do that shit. Where I'm like, I'm reading something. I'm not pretending like I'm
not reading this. If you had to put a one video up online, as the video that people watch of yours first, which one would it be?
I'll say that my the video that I'm proudest of last year, was what was it called? It's like, I lied to you, which was my proposal. video, I guess my Yeah, my proposal video. And it's a little bit corny. But that's the only video people I've ever said that they cried when watching, which is nice. And I cry while I watch it while I edited it. If that doesn't sound too, like ego, but it was I was very emotional like listening to the music and like just writing kind of my love story to Natalie. And I've never really opened myself up in that way on my channel. And it was also just funny and sweet. And like getting Natalie's reaction to the surprise trip that I planned for her being able to capture that and then also capture our trip to Costa Rica was really cool. And I think it's like the video I'm most proud of. What's your vibe on with edge?
the wedding. What you've I began to do if I can begin to have to two weddings one in the states one
camera filmmakers to follow the whole process. Now we're gonna do actually one in Italy. 21 2025
weddings are expensive. A year and a bit away. Yeah, it's coming quick. But yeah, we'll see. It's gonna be it's gonna be good. I mean, we couldn't pick Australia. We couldn't pick New Jersey. We can't make one person happy. We can't make just one. Yeah,
Take it. Take it.
And nobody's gonna go to Australia. Like my family. My dad.
My dad hasn't been on a plane. Ever. Actually. I don't know if he's on maybe once. Once to Colorado,
Mr. De villa. That passport. Yeah, he actually
got it for our wedding. So
that's nice, man. Enjoy the rest of the time in Sydney. Yeah. Thanks for co hosting for the week. Yeah. Thank you for having me. Mr. Friday. TJ and TJ will be in Sydney. I'll be in Melbourne and then on Monday, it's New Year's a visit and I'll be finishing the Seth Godin book are good. And so that's that's a last episode for the year. Oh, wow. Today, so everyone, have a good one. Hey guys. See ya.