Dani Zeini & The Burger Business

Dani: Wait a minute!

Tommy: Frostface!

Josh: The Daily Talk Show, a conversation sometimes worth recording with Josh Janson and Tommy Janson. It's a Daily Talk Show episode 234, and it's Fat Fridays, everyone!

Tommy: We are in the presence of some friends of the show, and where are we? We're at the Grand Trailer Park. Yeah, in Taverina— Taverna. Well, let's just Let's get Danny Zini, who's the owner of Grand Trailer Park. I can't remember the— no, there it is, Taverna. How do you say that?

Dani: Taverna.

Tommy: Taverna.

Josh: I really fucked that up. I'm really sorry, mate. We're so sorry. Yeah, Russ Keys has done it again. He's fucking— we got a calendar invite this time around.

Tommy: We did? Yeah, I was just saying you're going to take your headphones off because I can't hear you.

Josh: Because I'm not talking loud enough. Okay, there you go. Now Russ Keys has done it again, organised an epic guest. Hulk Smash Food here, Ruru's here.

Dani: It's fucking great.

Tommy: Russ Keys, executive Producer of the Daily Talk Show.

Josh: I was talking to Russ before over the weekend. I was saying he needs a food podcast where he just fucking chats to all the people that he knows. 'Cause I reckon he knows about every single person who makes burgers or owns places that makes burgers in Australia.

Tommy: I will say that he doesn't, 'cause he doesn't know Ronald McDonald.

Josh: Or do you? Do you know what? This is where Russ announces he is in fact Ronald McDonald. Danny, Danny, I wanna talk about Ronald McDonald. Your business partner Jimmy's Burgers from Eazy's, we had him on the podcast a couple of weeks ago. He was talking about the McRib. What the fuck is the deal with the McRib? What do you reckon?

Dani: Well, look, Jimmy's the premier doyen of burgers here in Australia, so his opinion has weight. Oh yeah. But he is a big advocate for McDonald's and he quickly followed up with the McRib. Was a little disappointed.

Josh: Yeah.

Dani: But he quickly followed up with the triple cheeseburger, which he was rapt about, so.

Tommy: So here's the thing. I didn't even know this existed. I mustn't have been into Macca's that much. So this was a burger that was around years ago.

Dani: Yeah, the McRib. It's got a bit of a cult status. Like, you know, the whole thing with burgers is the nostalgia feel. And McRib, you know, when we grew up was, was a thing. And there's a big kind of swirl around getting it back. And Macca's brought it back. Yeah, with a lot of fanfare.

Tommy: It's so funny. Everyone pushes to bring things that are nostalgic back and then like movies, you know, it's failed. Like they they bring back some— I don't know, Point Break. Everyone hated Point Break, but they fucked it. It's like remakes and all that stuff. So there is a massive risk for a company like McDonald's to do something like that.

Josh: I mean, Danny, you're making micro business decisions all the time. How many actual restaurants do you have in Melbourne?

Dani: In Melbourne, I'm involved with 5 restaurants.

Josh: Yeah, so you got Dandy Pavilion.

Dani: I've sold that.

Josh: Oh really? Okay.

Dani: So I've got 3 Raw Stacks in Melbourne.

Josh: Yeah.

Dani: Grand Trailer Park, and I'm fortunate to be a shareholder in Eazy's as well.

Josh: Yeah, amazing. And what's been— because TJ and I were talking about the fact that like the food— Fat Fridays is about the food. We're also like, Danny's a bit of a fucking baller. He knows all about this business stuff. If you've had that amount of successes, you've got to know something about running a business. TJ and I have just started a partnership. What is the bit of advice you'd give us starting a business partnership? What do you need to keep in mind?

Dani: I know, as a partnership, I think make sure you always communicate communicating. Yeah. And, um, put everything on the table. I think, uh, in partnerships we tend to worry about hurting people's feelings and, you know, we bottle up things inside. I think it's really important that you really discuss every minute detail and don't take it personally. And you're just working it out as you go. You're going to make mistakes, you've got to get upset at each other, but in any relationship, whether it's your partner, your kids, your mum and dad, you have the ups and downs. Yeah. It's the same with business.

Tommy: So we've got— we've come from having our own single businesses to sort of merging in the same space. But there would have been a lot of stuff I would have said yes to and been okay with to work it out as you go. But I think the reset in a new partnership is, okay, we take all those learnings and we sort of more particular about what we say less yes to based on the learnings. For your businesses, have you now got a filter of how much you'll say yes to without having any idea of what you're actually doing? Because there's been heaps of people, I've got friends who have won in the restaurant space and they had no idea. They weren't restaurant people, but They committed to it and made lots of mistakes. At what point do you sort of, it gets too risky, you won't do any of that young cowboy?

Dani: I'm not at that point yet.

Tommy: You're still cowboy? Still cowboy. Cheers to that.

Dani: I've either made the greatest or the dumbest decision in my life going to China this year, so I'm not at that point.

Tommy: So the expansion into China, wow, that's, how different, like, how much of your assumptions have been challenged around business and food and the food business space going over there?

Dani: I think the ideals are the same. I think the Chinese people I've met, especially young guys, are really curious and they're really interested in what we're doing. They love our core values and our commitment to quality products and to service. And I think coming from Melbourne, we're really fortunate that whatever we do is fundamentally strong because it's so competitive here. I mean, you can't just open a café and think you're going to do alright. You can't just open a burger place. You can't just open a restaurant. You've got to go above and beyond here in Melbourne. So our fundamentals are strong and we can carry that anywhere, I think.

Josh: What about the— I feel like I hear a lot of people going into China and they talk about the cultural difference of doing business in China. It's like you've got to approach it, you need to fucking tell it like it is, and you need to be aggressive with them. And have you— did you go in with that mindset? How did you approach it? And what have you actually learned now having a crack?

Dani: Well, I've got an ideal about business. I've always got to be myself.

Tommy: Yeah.

Dani: And I will keep continuing to try things and be myself.

Josh: And if it works, it works.

Dani: If it doesn't, it it doesn't. But that's a really good question because it's become very challenging and I'm at that crossroads where do I mature in business, do I change my mentality, do I become somebody that I'm not necessarily aim to be, or do I continue to be myself and do business the way I want to do it and that is brought wide-eyed, curious, you know, don't just dip the toe, jump straight in the water. But that's being challenged right now.

Tommy: Well, the hard thing is you've had success doing it. And so when you have success doing something, you're like, why would I, why would I fuck this up? Why would I try it a different way? Because I've proven it. It's really, yeah, it's really hard.

Josh: Have there been certain things that, what are some of the key takeaways from starting up in China?

Dani: Take everything with a grain of salt. Yeah. Understand that the landscape's shifting constantly. Understand that your business partners there are working things out as well. Stick to your vision. Be strong, stay committed, and stay the course.

Tommy: I mean, sounds like a marriage.

Josh: Yeah, it is.

Tommy: I take those principles. You have a great marriage.

Josh: What is the— what is something that you could take from this, you know, China, you know, move in Melbourne? Are there certain things where it's like, man, this has given me a new perspective on how I run things here?

Dani: It's actually made me a lot more confident, to be honest, that you've got things right. Or that, yeah, like, you know, that I do have a vision, and sometimes I tend to undervalue myself a lot. And I think that's part of the reason why I've been successful in hospitality is because, you know, I'm always wanting to please people, and that's fundamentally my DNA, wanting to please. And I think that resonates in our restaurants. And, you know, when I sit there in business meetings with, you know, people, big people, I've always kind of like a shrinking violet. I kind of shirk away and let handball, let some other person take the lead. But lately, this whole China thing, it's like given me a lot of confidence that, you know what, Danny, you do belong and you do know what you're doing and you do have a vision and you are sincere and Staxx as a brand has value.

Tommy: Yeah, it's so interesting like Josh and I dealing with clients that are worth hundreds of millions of dollars and smaller operators, everybody's experiencing the same thing. So the takeaway for me is like even so if you look at someone of success, they're still feeling the same as what someone starting out feels, just on a different layer or level. It's like constantly sort of levelling up. It sounds like you've just upgraded. You've done a level up. So it's like an internal realization.

Dani: Good point.

Tommy: But it doesn't have to be the defining thing. You know, I don't think you always need that to gain some level of success.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: It's so weird. Life's weird.

Dani: It is weird. But how good are burgers?

Josh: Great. How did you actually get to being in this whole business?

Dani: So I've been with hospitality, hospitality's in our DNA. My first job out of high school was at a cafe in Chadstone. Yeah. And I was just good at it. I was really good at hospitality. I loved it. Also, the way that my brain works, like I need to have things repetitive and monotonous and it was calming.

Josh: Yeah.

Dani: So going to work wasn't work. It was a release, a stress release. It was fun. It was exciting. Absolutely loved every minute of it. And to be honest, if I didn't have hospitality, I don't even know where my life would have went. So It really, I'm not just saying it, just saved my life. Like if I did not have hospitality, I shudder to think where my life would have went.

Josh: Yeah. So was it, what was it? Was it the interaction with the people? Was it the love of food? Which sort of came first, do you think? Could you be running a hotel if it wasn't doing this other stuff?

Dani: I think it's just the work.

Josh: Yeah.

Dani: Again, it's just the, again, the way my brain works, it's, It's really struggles to focus. I really find it hard to find clarity, but at work, it's the monotony of the work, that second person, third person, fourth person, and just having that chain of thought, I think really helped. I don't know if that makes sense.

Tommy: Yeah, yeah.

Dani: It was that help me focus kind of thing.

Tommy: So you've spent some time in the trenches, obviously working up from being, you know, running around on the floor, building your way up. We were having a conversation today with, we've got a video production company and what we find is a lot of the time we're dealing with people who, it's almost like they're not tradesmen. They don't, they haven't crafted videos themselves. They haven't found all those little hard things, the hiccups, the mistakes that you make as someone on the tools, but they're willing to sort of, they're in a position where they're trying to sort of do what we do, but they have none of that context. Do you think like the restaurant game, you need to have, I mean, do you think it's helpful to have had that on the ground flying hours?

Dani: Oh, definitely, definitely. And hats off to who could do it the way you said it with no experience.

Tommy: I don't think they can.

Dani: I mean, if they can, I mean, they were the smartest people ever. Yeah. Having said that, like, the Grilld people are from a marketing background.

Josh: Okay.

Dani: Look what they've done.

Tommy: And their partnership fell apart though, didn't it? I read in the newspaper that that was a bit of a partnership—

Dani: Oh, it was one person wanted out. It's just a bit of back and forth with the money. You know, when you're talking a $300 million company, Yeah, I'd be pissed off if Josh wouldn't let me get my profit share out of the business, actually.

Josh: Yeah, it's funny, the, you know where you are, I reckon, in the scale of what you do when I notice that you've got a lot of empathy for people. Even McDonald's, when we talk about McRib, you're not necessarily throwing in the knife. Do you find that the more that you do all this stuff, the more empathy you have for everyone that's having a crack?

Dani: I think real hospitality people True hospitality people, it's a brotherhood.

Josh: Yeah.

Dani: I mean, we have had a policy we implemented at Dandenong Pavilion back in the day, 2006. If you came to my restaurant and you'd been hospitality, it's a free drink, it's a free dessert, it's a discount. I don't even know you, I've never seen you before.

Josh: Fuck, I should have gotten into hospitality. How could I have known about this rule? This is fucked. The problem is that I can't— Do you have any tips for carrying drinks, coffees? Because I struggle just with If I have to carry a coffee for my taxi.

Dani: Okay, here's my tips for carrying plates, okay? First of all, pretend you're on the catwalk. Head up high. Put the disco music in your head. Walk down the catwalk and be proud. I mean, that's the only way to do it.

Josh: Okay, great. I feel like I would end up getting there with the chicken parma on the ground and everything, fuck.

Dani: But at least I look good. It's happened. And let me tell you, it's fucking embarrassing.

Josh: Oh yeah.

Dani: It's happened full restaurant. Everybody stops and looks. Someone's gonna yell taxi. Lately someone's yelling out Uber, but it happens to the best of us.

Tommy: Talking about Uber. It doesn't have the cut-through.

Dani: It doesn't have the same ring, right?

Josh: Uber Eats. How has that changed the game for you?

Dani: We don't do Uber Eats.

Josh: Yeah, but what has the impact been for, do you think, restaurants and dining in? Do you think that it's ruining some of the— because I'm a bit of a hermit and so I can— when I'm actually out and about and at a restaurant, I fucking love it. The problem is that Uber Eats gives me this out where when it's Friday night and I get home and I'm like in my introverted shell and I just order some food. Have you seen, you know, the flow on effect?

Dani: Of course, it's a new part of the business model and it's something that you really got to take into consideration. But if you know, if you've been around overseas, whether you've been in Italy, Greece, Lebanon, Africa, China, you could get anything delivered at any time. Yeah. And that's been around for a long, long time. Australia, we've been, been really late to the market because we only had in our heads just pizza delivered, right? Yeah, so it's been around, there's been an adjustment.

Tommy: But my dad told me that he used to take down an old pot to the local Chinese restaurant and they'd fill up the like the full dish to take back. There's no takeaway containers, there's no delivery. This was like '60s, '70s.

Dani: Unbelievable.

Tommy: Crazy change. Now some smug asshole getting $25 an hour rocking pops up on a little block.

Josh: Do you think that you would, are there certain other industries that you want to tackle or are you in hospitality and food?

Dani: Oh yeah, there's definitely, I think part of being in the restaurant now is like you've got to be pretty astute with social media. And I think if you see through our Stacks page, we do a lot of production values in our social media and the idea is there where we don't want to just market our brand or sell a product. We want to offer some value, be interesting in its own right. So I would love to venture in the production industry somehow down the track.

Josh: He's getting started.

Dani: This is mine. This is the key. This is the start. Okay, watch out, boys. Watch out.

Tommy: This is actually podcast/board meeting.

Josh: Exactly. We've got the chairman, advisor. Everyone's a fucking advisor now. Advisor would work.

Dani: This is what you've been doing wrong.

Tommy: No, we'd be happy to take that feedback.

Josh: Back.

Tommy: What Josh and I love doing is actually looking at reviews on, say, food websites. Like, we found some really great ones up in the Dandenongs, pancake restaurant, some of the funniest reviews. Bad for the business, but funny. And I always think about how do they— the thing is, the restaurant owners come back hard with like full explanation, which— how do you deal with that? I mean, you've got 5 restaurants.

Dani: I used to take it really personally. But you know, in my experience at the Down Under Pavilion, when we had a complaint, I would assess the complaint on a base-to-base basis. Where like, for instance, if you came in 100 times and got it wrong one time, and then you had a go, I used to get upset. But now my vision of that's changed because they actually feel undersold. They actually want to have a good experience.

Josh: They're a hardcore fan.

Dani: Yeah, I mean, they've been there 100 times. You've let them down. Yeah.

Tommy: It's so similar with Russ when we have a bad show.

Josh: Exactly.

Tommy: It feels like we've let him down. EP, executive producer.

Josh: He hasn't trolled us yet, so that's good.

Tommy: No, yeah, that's good.

Dani: Let me tell you what he said about just last night.

Josh: And so what's the, the reviews? What's the process now? What do you tell your staff? How do you approach it?

Dani: Um, we don't talk about it.

Josh: Yeah.

Dani: Um, we focus on the customer coming through the door. Um, we're fortunate we've had some good reviews. We've had some bad bad, but I can't let that be our focus because, you know, everybody has an opinion. Everything's objective.

Josh: Yeah.

Dani: You know, one person's favourite French fries, some people like fat potato chips, one person likes brioche, somebody likes a milk bun. Like, it's all objective.

Tommy: Here's the problem with perfect, right? If you got every review's perfect, it's only downhill.

Dani: That's spot on.

Tommy: You're in trouble.

Josh: How do you decide on menu items?

Dani: I'm really fortunate, again, hospitality is a space to be creative and you just throw it out there. So even with Pavilion, which is the basis for Stacks, we, I put a lot of specials on and we try, secretly try different beef blends, different bread blends, different types of ingredients, different cheeses. And I, whatever sold in the reviews or people feedback, I'd keep a collection of data over a couple of years and then I'll perfect that item.

Josh: Amazing. I feel like, did you have a product that had a Mc in it or it's sort of a hat tip to a McDonald's item? Have you ever done that and have you had any cease and desists or any trademark issues?

Dani: No, no, no. You don't have to worry. Everyone likes to bag Macca's, but they've been a go-to from the beginning of time. I mean, my business model is based on McDonald's. Yeah, like I think they are the optimum. They train their staff so well. Their business model is really great. They service the community. They do a lot of stuff for charity. If McDonald's changed from frozen products to fresh, it's over for everybody. Yeah. Because that's how good they are.

Tommy: I saw that in, was it Jimmy's Burgers? He wrote something like that. He said he'd been speaking with you. Explain that, from frozen to fresh. What frozen to fresh? What are you saying?

Dani: Well, McDonald's put so much money into perfecting their supply chain and getting the efficiency where the palate has changed completely. Like, you know, when we were 16 years old, what did we eat? Yeah, we're about the same. Macca's or fish and chip shop. These 16-year-olds are going to restaurants. They're getting dry-aged 60-day steaks and then critiquing. So that's how the palate is completely changed. So fresh beef, which what we use, is the new norm. And if you look at America, Shake Shack, Five Guys, In-N-Out, they're all using fresh quality products and they're taking Macca's market share. Once that, you know, what do you call it? The sleeping elephant wakes up, it's over.

Josh: Is McDonald's in the US versus Australia very different when it comes to ingredients?

Dani: McDonald's Coca-Cola in the US is the best Coca-Cola you'll ever taste. What do they do?

Josh: Is it high fructose corn syrup? Correct.

Dani: Yeah. So we can't have that here. Yeah, but it's ridiculously addictive. Yeah. And yeah, it's great.

Josh: I feel like I've seen a barbecue sauce at a diner in Melbourne that has high fructose. Are you not meant to actually have it, are you?

Tommy: That's illegal in restaurants in Australia?

Dani: No, it's not illegal, but the Coca-Cola formula here in Australia or the post-mix is a little different.

Josh: That's right. Because they talk about that. Is it because in Mexico they have sugar? Do they use sugarcane or something? So what's the difference between the Mexican one?

Dani: I'm not sure, I don't know about Mexico. I just know Macca's Coca-Cola tastes better than the Coca-Cola.

Josh: That's fair enough. I saw you did an Instagram post and it was about an old school diner. And I think you were talking, you're reflecting on what you want your business to be. Is that a strategy of looking back and do you ever get the, feedback that, you know, America is doing a lot. As you said, there's the Shake Shacks and all that sort of thing. And what it said to me was people could easily look at something like Stacks or whatever and say, oh, that's a Shake Shack play in Australia. But are you actually referencing way further back or how does your inspiration come?

Dani: Well, you know, the shack is just the buzzword. So yeah, there is very small similarities paradise between what we do and what they do. If you really looked in depth at our menu, it's completely different. But everyone likes to talk about The Shack because it is a phenomenal brand. I mean, I followed Danny Meyer before Shake Shack. I had his book, Set the Table. He's a hospitality guru. He's very passionate about hospitality. His restaurants are all about hospitality, the way they treat their staff. It's phenomenal if you go dig deeper. But yeah, Shake Shack is just the buzzword.

Josh: Yeah.

Dani: Our menu has a couple items that are similar, but that's your basic entry-level burger. Everything else is completely different.

Josh: How would you describe all the different restaurants you have? Do you have like one line to describe each? What are their personalities? Describe these friends.

Dani: If you look at Trailer Park.

Josh: Yeah.

Dani: I'd say it's the crazy cousin who hasn't grown up and just came off a 6-day bender and feels like something to eat. I mean, that's Trailer Park. I mean, it's absurd if you look around. The decor, the design, but the fundamental of the hospitality stays true. Our service is great, quality ingredients, and it resonates with people and people have a bit of fun. Royal Stacks was my attempt at corporatisation. So I did have a vision of having a multi-store brand. Yeah. Purely just, I had a midlife crisis, either buy a car or start something else. And I decided to start something else.

Tommy: I think there's more return with this.

Josh: There's a lot of people right now with SS utes who could have started that. I think you've done the right thing. Yeah. And so, so describe those, the other personalities. So Royal Stacks.

Dani: So Royal Stacks. Has an MBA at Harvard.

Josh: Okay.

Dani: I think Raw Stacks is—

Josh: is it your refined thinking maybe on things?

Dani: Again, it was my attempt at having a multi-store operation. It's my attempt at— if you look at the menu again and the style of service and our social, I've got my subtle personalities in the venue.

Josh: Yeah.

Dani: And I just saw an opportunity, like when we opened Royal Stacks on Collins Street, there was no other burger place like it in Melbourne CBD. I mean, we didn't muck around and I think people really resonate with that. We bought a 300 square metre venue on Collins Street, Melbourne, one of the premier cities in the world. Nobody had opened a 6 menu burger venue that large. In Melbourne and we were the first to do it.

Josh: Man, I remember the lines. I was working at the time on King Street and Little Collins at a place called Envato and we would always on Friday go head down as a gang and go. But there was the launch of a business versus the sustainability long-term. What have you learned? What can you do at launch to actually help you over a longer period of time?

Dani: Well, one of my business partners here at the time, Josh Lefferts, He's the genius of that. And I learned a lot through him in terms of launch. Dream Trailer Park was the first burger venue to have a launch like that. Now it's the norm. We did it differently. We had a PR, we had a guest list, we had people, we had a party to launch a burger venue. I mean, that again wasn't done. And we were fortunate to have the right people around us and it really resonated with people. People and we did, we applied the same principles again at Royal Stacks. And if you offer something different and something of value, people will resonate. But if you're going to do the same thing over and over and over, it's the dull eye roll, people get over it quick.

Tommy: I've been noticing a lot of the places I'm going to are a part of a group, part of a big group of restaurants. So they've got the capital behind them to start start and supplement if it's not going as well as they thought. Is there still room for little players to start something?

Dani: Like, I think you're going to see a big comeback of that.

Tommy: Yeah, that's good.

Josh: Maybe if you go into media and Tommy and I will start a little diner. Yeah, what do you think? Because one thing I notice in the States is a lot of diners that are just not— I think when I, before I went to the US, I was expecting this sort of Denny's culture where everything is just sort of like franchised and big business. But I think that there's so many, maybe for the amount of cafes we have in Melbourne, they have diners. Do you think there is going to be that diner culture or do you think cafes just surpass that expectation?

Dani: We do have a diner culture, but it is different. It is our cafes. It's the pizza shop, it's the pasta bar. And that's synonymous with Melbourne. And the difference is you've had an influx of immigrants come to Australia from the '60s, '70s, '80s. Greeks, Italians, Lebanese, they brought their own food and culture, Chinese. So we're very, very fortunate that that immigrant, we're at the cusp of the best food. Whereas America, they immigrated in the 1600s, 1700s. So they're fourth, third, fourth, fifth generation there. So they don't have the hunger as a migrant has.

Josh: But they're next to Mexico, so they've got so much good food.

Dani: Oh my God, exactly right.

Josh: That's the one thing like— And they're building a wall to keep them out.

Tommy: Yeah, but don't keep the burritos, the tacos in.

Josh: Yeah. And so what do you, we asked Jimmy this, what do you think is the next play? 'Cause Mexican was a thing with the mamacitas and stuff like that. There was—

Tommy: And doughnuts was huge. What's your call, Denny?

Josh: Yeah, what's the next thing? Where should we be investing our invisible money?

Dani: Hmm.

Tommy: Yeah, yeah.

Dani: I think—

Tommy: This has now turned into investment advice. Exactly. Part of the board meeting.

Dani: Well, I think it's going to go back to the family-style restaurant that we had at Pavilion where a very diverse menu. So now we see a lot of specialisation. So Italian, burgers, Mexican, like everyone's specialised at the moment. And I think you're going to see a resurgence of the whole like bistro dining where it's a diverse menu, family style. I think that's going to make a comeback.

Tommy: Similar to our show. We haven't niched into one area.

Josh: Exactly.

Dani: Diverse.

Tommy: We're a bistro.

Josh: But how do you do what we've done where you just end up being average at everything? How do you avoid that in say, are you talking about pub? Is that pub culture?

Dani: Yeah, I think some of that. Yeah, definitely.

Josh: And as a restaurant owner, as a hospitality-arian, is that a fucking word? What do you say? Hospitality? I don't know. Someone who's in hospitality?

Dani: Doyen of hospitality I prefer if that's okay.

Josh: Do you think that that's a good style that we do everything, or does it freak you out to think that the chefs are going to have to cook up a parma and then also be doing a curry?

Dani: Well, I mean, you've got kids. You don't have kids?

Tommy: Yeah, I've got two.

Dani: I mean, how clever is that child compared to what you would have been?

Tommy: Oh yeah, he knows how to YouTube. He knows how. Yeah, he's clever.

Dani: It's ridiculous, right? It's crazy. It's insane. And I think the kids growing up now who are going to be cooks and chefs, they are much smarter than we were. Yeah, they can diversify. Yeah, they can do multiple things at one time. They don't have to be specialized. They have access to multi cultures. They've been around the world, they've traveled, they've experienced different dining. So to pigeonhole somebody and say they can only do one thing. Yeah, I think that's, that's wrong now.

Josh: Yeah. Yeah. How do you communicate that from a marketing point of view, do you think?

Tommy: Do you—

Josh: does it then become really important to be family names that people recognize? What have you learned in the branding space?

Dani: Again, I think if you open a store, just offer a point of difference. Don't do the same thing everybody else is doing.

Josh: Yeah, true.

Dani: Be true to yourself. Don't be scared to make mistakes. Don't be scared to look like an idiot.

Josh: Yeah.

Dani: And keep trying, and something— somebody will appreciate what you're doing, and then work on that part.

Tommy: Hamish Blake was on our show and he was talking about, it's more relating to media, but saying about our show, it might be 500 episodes before you realise that this isn't the thing that's going to get you there, but you only realise when you get to 500. And it's a hard thing to swallow, right? Because if you go, I start 2 businesses that failed, they were my passion, but the 3rd one fucking blows up. It's like, it's a hard one. Have you found that?

Dani: Spot on. Yeah, definitely, man. Like, I mean, when we did the secret menu at Dano Pavilion, there was no hype, there was no PR, there was no marketing, there was no social media.

Tommy: It was such a great secret.

Josh: I don't know about it.

Tommy: What is this?

Josh: It definitely had cut through because I was living in Abbotsford and I would drive to Dandenong for the secret menu. Yeah.

Tommy: And the funny thing is, I feel like a loser.

Josh: Tommy and I talk about this a bit. I've got a little bit of insecurity around, you know, growing up in the burbs or whatever. And there is that, um, bit that I'm trying to shake, which is that I associate my childhood with the Burbs and all that sort of thing. But Dandenong Pavilion was a great example of like, this is fucking—

Tommy: this is—

Josh: this was my hood and it was doing epic high-quality thing. Was that— was that deliberate? Was that— were you trying to make a statement?

Dani: 100%. I mean, when we walked in, I mean, I think there was a conscious decision to put Dandenong in our name.

Josh: Yeah.

Dani: I did not want to shy away from where I'm from. I did not want to shy away shy away from my background. I didn't want to shy away from being the Burbs. Yeah, I wanted to be for Dandenong, and the people from Dandenong really appreciated it. I mean, they really championed us in the early stages. They were so hungry for what we were doing. Yeah, and we were really, really fortunate. Like, the community, like, you know, I didn't know anything about Yugoslavians, Serbians, Bosnians, Croatians. Like, they were there and really I got to know their culture. They championed us. I mean, there's a large Albanian community there. Like, I never knew an Albanian before that. They again, so supportive. Yeah, the Dandenong people were awesome for us.

Josh: How do you change— like, how do you communicate for people who think of Dandenong as Dandy Station where you fucking go through quickly? My dad used to have a business on Bennett Street in Dandenong, the radiator business. So like, I feel like Dandenong has changed so much as well. What is your take? How would you communicate it to people?

Dani: I mean, people forget in the '70s and '80s, Dandenong was the place to be. I mean, yeah, that's it, buddy.

Tommy: 3— Russ has just yelled out 3174.

Dani: That's in Noble Park.

Josh: Noble Park.

Dani: I mean, even on the menu here, you got our entry item, the K-Seiberg burger, and that burger—

Tommy: Oh, it's the Graf KSA.

Dani: That's right. So it was, you know, that was a homage to them again from our roots, even in this menu. So Dandenong was the place to be. It was very pumping and the GMH was there. What happened was the '90s came and we had a large, I think, heroin epidemic. They opened the Plaza, which killed the main street. You had now Found Gate open and Chad's So Dandenong was this kind of hub from like Waragul to Ralgon. Instead of going to the city, you'd stop at our place.

Josh: That's where you'd go to the movies. You'd go to Village Cinemas in Dandenong. I went and saw Lion King probably in '92 or whenever that was.

Tommy: Last movie you saw.

Josh: Yeah, but it's— do you ever worry or do you get shit from your friends and family that you're becoming a bit too fucking city boy, too bullshit? Or do you think that's been something something you've really kept.

Dani: Yeah, I'm, you know, it's funny you say that because when we were doing the China thing, we had a massive meeting. We had the staff and we had like the CEOs and the company directors and, you know, they wanted me to sit on that table, but I made the decision to sit with the cooks. Yeah. Because that's me and I'm never gonna be that guy. I'm never gonna be the guy that's it in the bin or whatever. Like, yeah, yeah, I'd rather spend time with, with the Cooks. That's where I belong. I know it's where I belong. That's where I want to be.

Tommy: You can take the boy out of the burbs, but you can't take the burbs out of the boy.

Josh: Finally, you've got your Boston— is that Celtics? Boston Celtics or no? I know nothing about NBA, but I feel like it could be something I could get into because I just love a few things I like about it. Live streaming, get to watch the, watch the games, have How hooked are you when it comes to NBA?

Dani: Well, I always say basketball was my first love. Yeah. Did you go to the Geelong Basketball Stadium? Oh mate, did I?

Josh: I used to court announce for the Rangers.

Dani: Oh wow.

Josh: Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Geelong Basketball Stadium. Oh wow.

Tommy: You were there?

Dani: Yeah, I probably would have heard a couple of times.

Josh: The wheelchair basketball. I used to do the announcing for that.

Tommy: Can you please tell the storey of what you called somebody while court announcing?

Josh: The thing is that we're—

Tommy: He's worried about pronouncing your surname today because the thing—

Josh: and it's fucking easy, Zaini.

Tommy: The thing is that—

Josh: Did you get it right?

Dani: Yeah.

Josh: How do you say it?

Tommy: Say it.

Josh: Zaini.

Dani: Close.

Josh: Yeah, say it.

Tommy: Zaini.

Dani: Zaini.

Josh: I fucked it.

Tommy: You did think that.

Josh: See, this was the thing.

Tommy: But hang on, it's not about how big a fuck-up is what you made.

Josh: Well, because the thing is that I used to have to remember 40 names because I would do 2 games. I would do to do the men's and then the women's, and they all had like 10 people each side or whatever, so they could do 40 names. And I just remember, 'cause I was telling, I always say to TJ, I'm like, "How do you say this person's name? I need to remember it." And it was because I remember I was doing the announcing and I announced a guy, I said, you know, "Number 7, Jesus blah blah," and his name was Jesus. And it got a huge laugh. And not only that, the other time was when, I called a guy whose name was Stephen, who was spelled with a PH. I'd just done a women's game beforehand, and so I called him Stephanie. Yeah, because I was just like, you know, I deserved—

Dani: anyone with a PH deserves to be like that.

Josh: Did you, um, snap? Did you, uh, domestic basketball, did you play at Dandy?

Dani: Yeah, I played at DNYC, Dandenong North Youth Club. Yeah, uh, down there, uh, again, you You know, picked up a basketball in grade 6 at Rosewood Downs Primary School.

Josh: Yeah.

Dani: And it was my first love and I was addicted and hooked and obsessed with the NBA in the '90s. Michael Jordan was—

Tommy: Basketball cards, the holograms.

Dani: Everything. Everything. Like I would blow— I'd save my runners, the shoes. Like I worked my ass off to save every cent and I was obsessed and it was great. Still love it.

Tommy: Josh, you're not allowed to get into basketball because you got your hands full. To wrap up, we'll say what you're doing.

Josh: What am I doing? Oh, with my book?

Tommy: Is that what we're talking about?

Josh: Yeah, you're writing a book. Oh yeah, I'm writing a book. So to close, we need to mention last, I had the idea on the weekend to, I was reading a book that was saying that to become a better writer, you should rewrite the best sales letters in the world, right? And I had a book that I was about to read next And I was like, well, how about I just rewrite that entire book? It's 250-odd pages. So anyway, stupid idea, stupid idea.

Tommy: Take a lot of time. We're gonna make 50% less profit.

Josh: Yeah, exactly.

Tommy: Based on his input.

Josh: But it turns out Seth Godin, who wrote the, uh, wrote the book, I reached out to him. Yeah. To make sure that he was okay with me rewriting the book.

Tommy: And I love that you didn't even tell me you'd reached out to him. I found out from Instagram stories. Now that's probably a no-no from a business perspective.

Dani: Remember what we spoke about early on? Communication in the business, okay, is very important.

Tommy: So, but we've got the go-ahead. Seth said that's a neat idea. But we've had, um, it's now turned into a bidding war.

Josh: So for charity.

Tommy: Yeah, so we're going to sell the book that Josh writes and all the money goes to charity. The bidding was at $150 yesterday. Yeah, uh, Derek, sorry mate, you've lost your bid. We've got an email from, uh, Trevor Long. Trevor said, my bid, come on Scooter Derek, you were taking You were talking Melbourne property prices auction style here. Welcome to the big league. My bid is valid on the following conditions being met. Proof of Seth Godin's consent.

Josh: Yeah, okay.

Tommy: Completion of task by January 31st. Inclusion of handwritten note from Tommy outlining the train incident.

Josh: Which we don't know if that's gonna happen.

Dani: Yeah, I don't know.

Tommy: If he pays for it. If met, I will donate $500.

Josh: To charity.

Tommy: To the charity of your nomination.

Josh: So it's gonna take a lot of time. Have you ever done it? Have you ever entered into something that was something as ridiculous as that and have to follow through? Other than every business that everyone starts.

Dani: Some ridiculous thing to do? Can I say marriage? Sorry, babe.

Josh: Are you a betting guy? Do you do any gambling?

Dani: If you're in hospitality, you're a gambler every day, man. You're gambling every day.

Tommy: Is your Uncle Joe Hashem?

Dani: No, it's a family friend.

Tommy: Okay, because I was looking and going, fuck, you look so much like somebody, and then I saw a photo of you and Joe I was like, surely that's your dad or uncle or something.

Dani: No, no, it's just a family friend. Okay.

Josh: It's so funny. It's a Daily Talk Show. So the book is happening though. So now I've got to spend the next— I worked out that it'll probably take me 24 hours.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: So if I do an hour a day from sort of today, I should have it done.

Tommy: Wow. And Daddy, if you want to put in a bid, email us, bid, subject line, and your bid to hi@thedailytalkshow.com.

Dani: I mean, I agree to all the terms except the deadline's going to be hard. So January 21st.

Josh: Yeah, no, I think we'll make it. I don't know if you'll make it. Just very quickly, what should we eat?

Tommy: What should we eat?

Josh: What do you recommend?

Dani: I mean, again, the McDowell is a homage to McDonald's.

Josh: McDowell, that was on the Dandy menu, I remember.

Tommy: That's right.

Dani: Yeah, that's a homage to Macca's with our take on the Big Mac there.

Josh: Yeah.

Dani: Yum. I love that. My favourite burger here is probably the Ivan Drago. Ivan Drago.

Josh: What about Hulk? What's your— do you have a favourite burger here? I certainly do.

Tommy: I'm with Danny on this one. The Ivan Drago's my clear favourite here.

Josh: Okay, there we go. And what's— is it going to be called Dandenong, the place to be? Yeah, I think that could be the tagline.

Dani: We're going to make a comeback, dude.

Tommy: You're going to make some jokes.

Dani: You've got jokes.

Tommy: Russ Keys, thanks for coming down.

Josh: Roo roo!

Tommy: And Hulk Smash Food, thanks, Russ. Hey, Russ, as you're our executive producer, where's our next What's the next one?

Josh: Stay tuned. We've got a big one coming up next. Mate, are you open all over Christmas? What's the deal?

Dani: Trailer Park and Stacks Collins should be closed from Christmas Eve until the 4th.

Josh: Okay, great. Then fucking back at it. Mate, it's a perfect thing. I know that I remember being in January or whatever, slow time at work, long lunches. It's the time to get out and eat. Danny, mate, thanks so much for being on the show.

Dani: Thanks for having me.

Tommy: It was great.

Josh: The Daily Talk Show. We're off to eat. Have a good one.