Should We Filter Ourselves More?

Josh: Wait a minute! Frostface! The Daily Talk Show, a conversation sometimes worth recording with Josh Janson and Tommy Jackett.

Tommy: It's a Daily Talk Show episode 227 from a park bench.

Josh: Podcasting from a park bench, that's what this is, uh, in Melbourne. Yeah, so we're just on the fringe of the CBD. We're right near the Parliament House, which I don't know what goes down. I guess Parliament meetings.

Tommy: Yeah, the state Parliament.

Josh: Yeah, but we've been walking through the city and I feel like we— if you were just to observe this, if you were a private investigator following us, didn't know who we were and were seeing what we were doing and how we were looking around, looking low, looking high, walking into Maccas, nah. Nah, not here.

Tommy: Went to Grand Hyatt. Nah, check.

Josh: 5-star hotel.

Tommy: Fed Square. Did the, like, we look like full-blown junkies, but what we were looking out for were power outlets.

Josh: Yeah, so we could do the podcast, but we managed to get batteries and this is a nice setting. It's nice and relaxed podcasting from a park bench.

Tommy: You might be new to the podcast. It's pretty rare that we say that.

Josh: Yeah, we don't, but we've had a whole bunch of new listeners, so we probably should say that.

Tommy: Well, we've been seeing some new listeners plus Today, uh, you, uh, as we're walking in the city, you had a bit of a moment because today's the day that our episode on The Ground Up Show, Matt D'Avella's podcast, comes out.

Josh: Yeah, our mate who made the minimalism documentary, and he dropped our episode. We haven't seen it yet, so when this is out, it will be out. Yeah, but I'm not going to watch it back because it's a video podcast, and we haven't done a heap of other people's podcasts. We 100% haven't done anyone else's podcast that was videoed.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: So it's, it was a bit of a new thing. Here's my call. Someone in the comments will be saying, why does that bloke keep looking at that other bloke?

Tommy: Meaning you looking at me, looking at you.

Josh: It's so funny. It's, we've become very close. And I think you do after doing a podcast every single day for over 200 episodes. It's like your girlfriend or your partner. They're your safe person. So when you're a bit awkward, you're like, it's more comfortable for me to eyeball the side of your head than it is to look at the guest. Or like, while you're talking to Matt, I'm looking, I'm looking at you because I'm like, such a weird thing to be in the confines of a small house filming so closely. It's weird, man.

Tommy: But you were, we're walking along, I think on Collins Street in Melbourne.

Josh: Yeah, Paris end.

Tommy: Yeah, Paris end, correct.

Josh: The fancy end. We're all Gucci and Armani and, you know, Louis Vuitton. That's where all the shops are. Did you know that?

Tommy: Yeah, I did.

Josh: Paris end.

Tommy: Because I remember I did a video for a friend who was in radio and she wanted to make it onto TV. And so we had to create like a reel. But she didn't have any TV work yet. So we just went to a bunch of places and just had her saying, now we're at the Paris end.

Josh: Oh yeah.

Tommy: Classic. And then it goes on.

Josh: Classic. Doesn't get much better than this. A little bit of that. Have they made it onto TV?

Tommy: No, she focused more on radio. She ended up having like 3 kids. So you're walking along and you dropped what I consider to be a pretty big question.

Josh: Yeah, well, I had thoughts about it and I wanted to gauge what your response would be to see how my thoughts and feelings were placed based on what you're saying. And what I said to you was—

Tommy: It was like you were trying— you were— it's like you've got a new partner, you've got some weird kink, and you're just testing the waters. Like, mate, Gary was saying that he absolutely loves, uh, when— I can't think of something—

Josh: his bottom gets really red from smacking.

Tommy: Yeah, he loves like just getting slapped on the bum. What do you reckon? Do you reckon it's weird? Do you reckon it's weird?

Josh: It was Far from anything serious.

Tommy: It was a little bit like that. But you're pitching it up as a, I've been thinking, I've just had this thought.

Josh: Yeah, because I think if you have a feeling or a thought and it, I mean, it's not solidified, but it's happened for a reason. So you're just testing the waters to see if they've been having the same thinking. And my thinking was based around some, you know, based around the length of the amount of episodes we've done. The type of podcasts we've been creating over the last couple of weeks, some conversations that we've had outside of this, and coinciding with Matt Diavella's episode dropping where we were getting a little bit— we were being us essentially. And I guess what I was saying was, do you think we should— should we double down on us and the type of stuff?

Tommy: That's actually not what you said.

Josh: No, I didn't.

Tommy: So what I said— can you fix your little fluffy thing? Just— we're not getting any wind, but just in case. It's so windy here in Melbourne today. Today, but you wouldn't be hearing it.

Josh: So how did I serve it up? Because I know—

Tommy: so the way that you served it up was it was like, maybe we dial it back. It wasn't doubling down. The doubling down came after. Okay.

Josh: Okay.

Tommy: But it was the— you didn't say, oh, I don't think we should spank. It was like, oh, I've been thinking like maybe spanking's a thing. And so, and then I said, so the way that you pitched it up was you're basically saying look, maybe now that we're starting to get a bit of an audience, does it make sense for you, say, talking about your ingrown toenail?

Josh: Yeah, and not that I have pushback on any of that, because I think the banter and the fun we have is something I actually enjoy. But I guess it's this conflicting thing of going, as you sort of get bigger, which we're not at— like Matt Diavella, since we were on, if you're listening, Matt, Congrats, bro, because when we were on your show, you had 200,000, bit over, subscribers. You've got like over 650,000 now.

Tommy: And the only thing that happened during that time was we released our episode with him. With him.

Josh: So it's, yeah, we did it potentially. No, but I guess so it would make more sense in this conversation if you were him, and I see how it happens and you see big people, they totally become not who they were when they started. But I feel inside, I'm like, should we? Should we sort of just pull back on some of that stuff to maybe cater to a few more people?

Tommy: Well, I think it's based on the idea that we, Seth was talking about it a little bit around like, you don't actually need to, authenticity is overrated. That the— I think it was authenticity. It was that idea that his argument is that if someone's— a pilot arrives at work and he doesn't feel, or he or she doesn't feel like flying the plane, they don't say, guys, being true to myself and being authentic, I'm not going to fly. You just do it. And so in regards to this, it's like, it's a fair question, which is like, it's not changing you. It's not being someone else. But maybe spanking gear doesn't really hit where we're trying to hit.

Josh: Yeah, I get it.

Tommy: As in not on the ass.

Josh: No, but I think it would be easy to double down on being me. But then there's the feeling of—

Tommy: Not to you though, please.

Josh: I get weird. No, but it's like the saying, be unapologetically you.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: Which I think maybe I'm apologising for being me in this moment where I feel like reflecting on some things that you do or how we've shifted this podcast over the 200 episodes. Not a great deal. Dropped a lot of the C-bombs out of the— off the platform, which is good.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: But there's sometimes things that we say that either it's we haven't thought them through But I think we're getting better at it.

Tommy: But I think that it's— you don't even necessarily have— like, you really— I think I realise that you say things all the time that you don't actually believe that much. We just say shit and like it happens. And then the difference is that this is recorded. This is like someone can go back and listen to all the shit that we said and they can be like, if you circle around this thing, he actually sounds like a bit of a pig.

Josh: Yeah. Do you think this is why people pull the pin on?

Tommy: Maybe it's one of the projects. Maybe like the social media thing. We get— didn't you— you said we've got an email from, um, Kyle.

Josh: Yeah, our boy Kyle Dundas.

Tommy: Uh, he's emailed us hi@thedailytalkshow.com. You said that it said, dear Josh. It was a very formal email.

Josh: Yeah, I was cut sangers. Where, where am I, mate?

Tommy: Can you explain for our new US audience?

Josh: Cut sangers?

Tommy: I don't know, like cut sandwiches. I actually don't know. Can we start saying that? Oh, I'll be real. Cut sandwiches.

Josh: Cut sanga. Yeah, mate, if you can help me know where that's from, I'm going to be less like me and stop saying that.

Tommy: No.

Josh: Okay, he said, dear Josh, how is social media retirement treating you? I'm fascinated by your decision. I've had a few social media detoxes myself but thought that quitting was a bit too dramatic after weighing up the pros and cons. I have a few questions for you. You ready?

Tommy: Okay, so to give people context, if you haven't listened, I've decided to retire from social media and now I'm just— Tommy's got a bit of a slurpee from 7-Eleven. Is it good? Is it a, uh, low sugar? Okay, yummy. Grape is real chemically tasting. I get it.

Josh: That's why I went.

Tommy: Yeah, I get it. So the, um, yeah, I decided to double down on my blog, on this podcast, and get rid of all my social media.

Josh: And it wasn't based on something he put out or wrote or said and he has to tone it down. He's—

Tommy: Yeah, no, I haven't, I haven't been MeToo'd or anything. I've just purely—

Josh: You've got rid of it. And I've, and I haven't trolled you like I have in the past when you've been thinking about it. It's like you were ready.

Tommy: Yeah, it's, um, so, so what's the, uh, what's the questions that Kyle has? Keep in mind I've been off social media for 2 and a half days, which I'm sure there's a lot of people—

Josh: 2 and a half days? No, more than that.

Tommy: It happened on Sunday night.

Josh: Wow.

Tommy: If you say, have you missed me? Lots happened. Instagram's changed things. They do horizontal storeys now. What? So what's Kyle got to say?

Josh: You've been good though. You haven't gone back.

Tommy: No, I'm not. I've literally, on my bio, it says retired from social media.

Josh: It's good. It's good. You just wanted to keep the username. That's why you've got it like that. Number one, How long were you stewing over it for?

Tommy: I deleted Twitter, my Twitter account in 2009. Like, so I had it and then I got rid of it.

Josh: Yes.

Tommy: So I had it in '08, got rid of it in '09 and quickly came back. It has been on my— so the idea that being obsessed with social media as a problem has been top of mind for a lot longer, I think, than other people.

Josh: Remember that blow-up we had in LA?

Tommy: Which one? Which one?

Josh: And it was about like, I kind of gave, I said, here we go. It was a bit fucking mean. I said, here we go, or something like, remember how it was about, we just dropped this episode and you were pumped to see the reaction.

Tommy: And oh yes, yes.

Josh: How does that fit now? Because basically it was like, I just made a little troll and I thought I was being funny, but it was a bit passive and it was a bit rude.

Tommy: Well, no, because I think that what happened was I was— I had just put up a post and I was then getting it out everywhere and looking at it, and I said, we've lost him. Yeah, we've lost him. And my whole point of it was I was like, I was doing it to like better what we were doing. Yeah. So I was sort of like, hang on, I would also like to go out and fucking go to a cafe, but I'm getting this done because it's what we've committed to doing.

Josh: And the only reason I bring that up is because it plays into that, I guess, need, feeling that you need to be doing it and that it's— Or the response. So you're waiting, obviously putting something, you're shipping something, and then you're wanting to sort of get feedback, see how it's interacting. I mean, you don't get that anymore. That's why it's very awesome.

Tommy: Because I think that, so to answer Kyle's question, started thinking about deleting social media in 2009, Did for a short period of time, brought it back. This was at a time where when I started using Twitter, you would text message your tweet and then it would just send text messages to all of your followers. That's how it used to work.

Josh: That's weird.

Tommy: And so it was all text. Like it was, I had Twitter before an iPhone. I was using a Nokia slide phone. It was color. Yeah. But so now.

Josh: So shitload of time. And now in terms of It's just that response and not— Do you think that like when we put things out, are you missing it 2 days in?

Tommy: No, because I feel like it's— I was getting so much anxiety around like people reaching out to me, whereas I much prefer— and it was because it was diluted across lots of inboxes. So someone would Instagram DM me, another person would jump on Reddit, another person would Facebook message me. I would get an email, a text message, a WhatsApp, and it was just fucking too many things.

Josh: Yeah. All right. Number 2, what specific social media platforms are you retiring from?

Tommy: So Instagram and Facebook were the ones that took the most amount of energy.

Josh: And you deleted your Twitter or you deleted all your tweets?

Tommy: Yeah. Sorry. Instagram, Twitter, Facebook.

Josh: Yes.

Tommy: LinkedIn, I haven't worked out what to do with yet. It's there.

Josh: I was thinking of just updating, It's there in case big media company goes pear-shaped and he needs to get a job through his network.

Tommy: No, what I was thinking is maybe I just put in the description, retired from social media. If you need me, contact this number.

Josh: Yeah. Yeah. All right. 3, do you intend to grow your blog's readership? If so, how do you envisage this growth happening without social media?

Tommy: So this is my thought. My Instagram I have had since 2011. And I have 1,700 followers.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: That's not many at all. And if you look at how much the engagement was there, I think that I was kidding myself into thinking that it was anything more than a few friends liking my shit.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: And so my thought behind it is that rather than popping into people's feeds, I want people to seek out what I'm doing.

Josh: Does it answer his question though?

Tommy: How do I build?

Josh: So I take from his question, how do you envisage this growth happening without social media? You could look into that question and say, he thinks you need to do it with social media.

Tommy: Yeah, so my thought is I have a podcast that we will be building. Our guests have social media, our guests have followings, you have a following, big media company, like people will still be able to consume my content. So I think that it just relies on— that's a guy on a skateboard. Jesus got some speed there. But my idea is that the things that I'm building will have enough cut-through that they will reach people. And then those people will then come to my website.

Josh: You've got a podcast, you've got a YouTube channel, you've got a blog.

Tommy: Yeah. And so I haven't done—

Josh: And you've actually got the thing that you can chat to Josh with.

Tommy: Josh@joshjanson.com.

Josh: Okay. Number 4. Do you feel as though your retirement is a bit premature? You'll be missing out on a lot of validation when it comes to getting married and buying a house. Hahaha. It's a bit of a troll.

Tommy: Yeah, no, but I get it because I think the thing is that I think that maybe social media has given personal moments to everyone else. And I like the idea of just being like, oh, I can have these moments. And for some reason, I don't know if you can relate, but the podcast and me being honest about things feels very different. I feel like people are seeking it out. I think that with social media, it feels like a judgement a lot of times. I feel like I was judging other people on social media and I felt similarly. It's like it's designed by comparison because you're flicking between things really quickly. So imagine like you're going from, it's like a radio station. You're switching radio stations in your car. And there's sort of a comparison thing where it's like with a podcast, you don't every 3 seconds see someone else's content alongside us.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: It's not like I finished this sentence and that you're going to hear another podcast. You're going to keep listening to this one.

Josh: So yesterday we were at the Barefoot Investor's farm working on some stuff together. And one of the questions I did ask him as we were leaving was, do you think you need to, when you don't have an audience and you're trying to grow an audience, be across all platforms? And he said, no, no. So he's interrupting me already, which I kind of preempted what he was gonna— or should you double down on one or two?

Tommy: Yeah, and this is the thing, he's someone that I respect. He's created Australia's number one book. It's been on the number one charts for a long time over 1.4 million books sold.

Josh: It's crazy.

Tommy: But I think about all the people that I respect. I think about him. I think about people like Jason Fox. I think about even what, uh, Matt was doing with the social media detox. And I just think that I'm in a prime position where I can actually build something else. I think that if I feel like as, as, um, as Cal Newport calls it, who wrote Deep Work, as knowledge workers, we have the opportunity, I think, to do something different. I don't think just doing the same thing as everyone else, having a social, like having a louder presence on social media doesn't feel like the answer to me.

Josh: Yeah, pulling a, we were talking yesterday about pulling a Rolling Stones pulling a Metallica or doing nothing. So pulling a Rolling Stones was what?

Tommy: Just continuing, continuing doing the same thing over and over again.

Josh: Yeah. Pulling a Metallica is coming out with a different album that might not land or just completely different to what the style you did previously. Yeah. Or it getting too hard and you're not willing to play in either of those spaces.

Tommy: I mean, I don't feel like I've even had a first album yet.

Josh: No.

Tommy: So that's what's awesome. Like I can—

Josh: Most people haven't. And that's the thing. If, like, if I ask myself, what is it for? I don't think I've ever legitimately spent time to think about what is my Instagram for? Other than the things that you could reel off in a second, connect with mates, you know, try and promote some of the stuff I'm doing. It's kind of like, that's not the real answer, I don't think.

Tommy: Well, I think it's also, I did an article on my blog. Should I call it an article? What should I call it? A blog post?

Josh: It's a blog post.

Tommy: It's a blog article. It's probably a bit wanky.

Josh: Bit grandiose.

Tommy: Bit grandiose. A bit like Joshua Fields Millburn calls it an essay.

Josh: Oh yeah.

Tommy: It's grander than an article. It feels an essay.

Josh: Well, your last one is definitely not essay length.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: 100 characters.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: It was good. It was bite-sized.

Tommy: Yeah, it was smaller, but it was about the conflicting advice. And so that's the other thing. I think that you can say the best way to build an audience is to be everywhere and make a lot of noise.

Josh: Yes.

Tommy: But you could also say the best way to build an audience is to double down.

Josh: We could find multiple examples of people who have done both.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: As in not both themselves, but like some over in this camp, some over in that camp.

Tommy: I want to know for people, if you've got pushback on what I've done, I want to hear. I actually want to hear. Poke at my theory. Hi@thedailytalkshow.com. I want to hear. Can we have another toe update? Doubling down on who we are. We got an email from Luke. I don't know. I'm not going to say his last name because what he sent was, it wasn't a—

Josh: It was a thank you. Which I appreciate, thank you. But it was also followed up by a "look down the page if you dare," which meant you need to do a few thumb scrolls, and it'd come down to— whoa, Jesus.

Tommy: So the thing is, he hasn't sent us an ingrown toenail. What is it? What did Luke say?

Josh: He said he was moving and dropped something, dropped a cupboard while moving it onto his foot, and his toe is in trouble, bro.

Tommy: Yeah, it's sort of— it's It's very black. But do you know what? I actually just had a thought now that we've got sort of more overseas listeners. My mate Naysan went to an international school. He's from the US, right? Yeah. He said to me he only knows Australians that get ingrown toenails.

Josh: Really? Do you think that's a thing?

Tommy: He says that all of his mates that are from different countries, none of them have ever had ingrown toenails. The only people— he's like, but Aussies constantly have them.

Josh: All right, now I'm happy for people to send through emails about the toe thing.

Tommy: Keep it going, geez. Well, yeah, I want to know, are you from— I'm niching down on this whole toe content. Are you from overseas and do you have one? Because they definitely exist. Because when I decided to do self-surgery a few years back, it was some poor American person without health insurance that had made a trip to the— where, uh, what's it called? Hardware store. Oh no, with a bit of alcohol and some pliers. And so you're just going to trim his—

Josh: oh no, that's horrible. Um, also, were you wrapping us up then?

Tommy: No, I wasn't.

Josh: Uh, I was going to say, just recapping on the start, maybe if you've been listening for a while or you're fresh and you feel like telling us, should Have you felt that, you know, conflicting feelings inside about a time where you're sort of being yourself, you're putting yourself out there, but you feel like maybe you should tame it down slightly to not offend people, or should you double down on who you are?

Tommy: But isn't also the idea— we were watching, we found an old video that you and I made 10 years ago and you were cringing at yourself.

Josh: Yeah, it was horrible. I was— being a presenter.

Tommy: Yeah, and isn't the lesson there though that like it's pretty hard to use the argument about being yourself or not being yourself because the reality is that we're not a single person that can be described in one way, that we're complex characters that are constantly changing and evolving.

Josh: So you're saying I might be evolving like a Pokémon right now?

Tommy: I don't know the reference.

Josh: You don't know Pokémon?

Tommy: No.

Josh: Pokémon.

Tommy: No, I've never done Pokémon.

Josh: Pokémon, they evolve. Squirtle turns into Bulbasaur.

Tommy: I don't know if that's true. Were you into Pokémon as a kid?

Josh: Back in the day I was. I liked it. I liked the Game Boy. I had the game. I used to play so much of it that my fucking— I would hear the ding, like the little noises from the Game Boy game in my head without even playing it. But My point being, in the evolving thing, I get that. I look at myself back then, I was giving it the best I could. And maybe it's like, you, you, you, it's easy to judge the previous self or feel shit in the moment, but as you go further, you evolve. But I don't, I don't think these thoughts really change a great deal.

Tommy: Do you think that you would, if you listened back to, you've listened back to a few episodes you were expecting to cringe, but you were sort of saying you didn't cringe as much as you think.

Josh: Yeah. But I've put in a lot of work over the years being on radio for 2 years. And then like, I think, yeah, we are being us. So I wasn't as cringeworthy. Some of the content, of course, episode 14, if you haven't listened, go back and listen.

Tommy: No, please don't. You really?

Josh: No, but some of the content might be cringe, But I think we still sounded like we were our good mates, have fun when we're talking, do this because we love it, and have good banter.

Tommy: Geez, whoa, that wind. It's actually not picking up that much on the mics, but this is a horrendous wind. I do wonder about that. And that's the thing with Instagram is I think that we position these one-dimensional things where it's like a thing, like, oh, your Instagram has to have a theme and you to look a certain, you know, it's so contrived.

Josh: Yeah. And so you were saying the change, there is photo shoots. If you probably can't hear it, but there's people yelling and doing selfies and there's like legit two photo shoots, professional photography shoots happening simultaneously. Simultaneously. You were saying that maybe me looking back on that old stuff, cringing, that was just another version of me. So this version of me isn't necessarily necessarily the rock-solid version. Is that where you—

Tommy: Well, I know, I think that, yeah, I think the thing is that we, um, we can be very judgmental of ourselves. We can be judgmental of others. I think my pushback, like, even the insecurity of me doing the blog was I said to you this morning, I'm like, I just felt like I was trying to be a Seth Godin tryhard. Yeah, but then at what point can you fucking do it?

Josh: Yeah, yeah, yeah. If you wanted to start a vlog there's little chance of not— people not saying you're trying to be like Casey Neistat.

Tommy: Yeah. And so what do we do? Like, if we— is the answer— like, if you're thinking about it now, it's like, I don't want to do this because this person does it. What hope do you have?

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: What can you do?

Josh: Yeah, I don't think there's much. Everyone— someone in the world has done something before you.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: And, and so we are imitating things, but we're trying to find our voice. And so like, look at Matt. Matt is a great case study over the last 6 months.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: A guy who has built a huge audience and has put in the work, but as you see in his content, he's finding his voice. He's bringing more comedy in. I just wrote on one video, dude, these are fucking getting funnier and funnier.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: It's like he's setting a high benchmark for himself, but it's because I think he's doubling down on his past as a stand-up comedian.

Tommy: And he's like, he's, he's being true to himself. Yeah. But I think that the, the other thing too is even us doing, uh, his podcast, there's insecurities there, which is like, oh look, we've only done this podcast. Like, yes, we've done over 200 episodes, but like, who are we to say these things? Who are we to— and I think that it's also a defence mechanism too, where it's like, oh, were we just joking around too much? Or do we— like, all of those things.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: And I think that the default is to say, well, I'm not going to do it, I'm not going to put myself out there, I'm not going to start the thing. But I think that part of the reason that I've gotten rid of social media is because it's like I actually realized, oh, that's what I want to do. It's the same reason I got— I don't know, speak about it on the show about my schnitzel.

Josh: No, on Sunday.

Tommy: No, with the beans. Oh, the chips.

Josh: Yeah, the chips.

Tommy: Yeah, no, I did talk about it. I'm really proud of it. I had a chicken schnitzel on Sunday at the pub and I didn't finish it.

Josh: See, here's what's happening. Every dumb photo you'd take and put up on your Instagram is now in a spoken form on our podcast.

Tommy: That's so true. No, but it was— the thing is, the thing is that it What it was making me realise is I think that we do a lot of these things, these default things to people please, and to because we've always done it that way and people expect us to do this thing. But it's like, we're speaking to a friend this week who was saying, I fucking hate this thing that I do. And then he doesn't have to do it. And we said, oh, you don't have to do it. And it's a very confronting thing. So I think that the one thing that I—

Josh: You gotta go deep into why you're not pulling the pin on that thing.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: Because it's not, "Oh, I have to, I don't," but you don't. "Oh yeah, but then what is it?" I guess it's like, "Why have you got social media?" "Oh, because of this." "Well, is it?" Yeah. Going deeper on that.

Tommy: "Because I want to build a huge following." What's one of those things that you've changed in your life in the last year that you thought that you had to do that you don't have to do anymore?

Josh: The gym. No, I realise I gotta go back. No, no, I got— I think it's the social media stuff. Oh no, there's some stuff around money. I think it's like around getting myself a bit more financially stable in the sense of just being sensible. On a lot of things.

Tommy: So what do you think beforehand and what do you think now?

Josh: Didn't think a great deal. It's like, I think a lot of people who are either single or, you know, relationship without kids, or, you know, for me it was the kid thing that has really made me think, and business and, you know, the changes in my world that probably made me think more about it. But I still haven't made made the changes completely. Like yesterday, Scott Pape said to me, the guy that gives financial advice for a living, he was saying, and it was a really empathetic moment where he was like, we helped him record an interview for his Blueprint online subscription thing that he does around life insurance. He's like, Tommy, it's something you should really, he said, do you have it? No, it's just—

Tommy: I don't have any, it doesn't fucking matter about me.

Josh: No, it doesn't matter about you, but I get it, right? If I die, my wife has a baby who's my baby that I won't be around to help with and there's no income. So basically it's about $30 a week to have the understanding that your kid will be looked after financially.

Tommy: It changes you.

Josh: For years.

Tommy: It changes your like what's important. I've always struggled with superannuation, which is, what is it called in the States? It's your retirement package. It's just something K, blah, blah, blah, K. Because I've always thought about like, oh, that's when I'm old. Like I've always had the idea that when I'm old, I'm gonna be a baller and I'm not gonna need it. But I think that everyone is relying on that. And it's, and we'll end up all being old.

Josh: Even you've said it, and we've kind of got the same mindset, which probably is a bit dangerous, where we're like, we'll make this fucking work. Yeah, this is gonna work.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: And it's probably a good mindset to have, because if you don't have that, the other option is this is not gonna work. We can't make something of ourselves. And so you need a bit of that, not naivety. Yeah, in some respects. But then I think we can sort of— you need to have belief, get real. Like, I mean, I could have I remember almost like I could have got it. I could have worked myself into a position where I could have got this one bedroom, no, a studio apartment off the plan. And it was cheap. It'd be worth $110 grand more than it was then. But it just would have been something I had. And I look, you can easily look back on decisions you made, but I wasn't ready then. I think it's like, I feel more, placed and have my roots down that I can make some better choices and also more reason to make better choices.

Tommy: But you've changed too. That's the thing too, is it's like we sometimes keep the same opinion on something and realise that we've actually changed so much that the opinion probably should change as well. It's a daily talk show. Hi@thedailytalkshow.com if you want to send us an email. If you're new to the podcast, if you've just found out, welcome, welcome. Go back have a listen to some of the other episodes. I really liked our Seth Godin one, that's episode 190. Yeah. Do you have any favorites?

Josh: Mr. 97, he liked the one where we were walking on the High Line. Yeah, walking the High Line, New York City. Good banter. It's very just Josh and I just being ourselves. Yeah, it was, it was fun because we got it, we met this guy, a little vox pop at the end, it was super impromptu. You, you gave me that challenge, but where it embodies a lot of what you and I just love doing. It's just being out. It's kind of similar to what we're doing now. We're just out, we're recording, talking, communicating, talking about shit we actually don't know the answers for, but we've got our life experience to give it a crack.

Tommy: Yeah. And if you're making something, if you've got a podcast, got a blog, now that I'm not on social media, I've got more time. So just email hi@thedailytalkshow.com with that so we can see what you're doing too. Otherwise, we'll see you tomorrow, guys.

Josh: See you guys.

Tommy: Bye.