Two Gronks

Tommy: Wait a minute!

Josh: Crossface, the Daily Talk Show, a conversation sometimes worth recording with Josh Janson and Tommy Jackett. It's the Daily Talk Show, episode 212.

Tommy: Yeah, you may hear some rain. This weather has been crazy in Melbourne.

Josh: Do you remember when we first started the show?

Tommy: Yeah, Weather Chat.

Josh: Yeah, so, but if you go to the early episodes, probably from like, what, episode 1 to 10?

Tommy: Yes.

Josh: Every, like, I really wanted to push that we were doing it daily.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: Which we do do it daily. Like, today's Wednesday, we're recording release Wednesday. It's like, what, it's like after 4 PM. Yeah, we haven't managed to be able to do like an early, um, earlier in the day.

Tommy: Yeah, you like to get it out. Yeah, you've been tired today, Joshy boy.

Josh: Do you think?

Tommy: You can hear it in your voice. You sound like a slow puppy dog when you get a bit tired.

Josh: I spent all yesterday reading, wanted to see how much attention span I had.

Tommy: So you've given no backup to why you could possibly be tired because you spent the day reading. You feel like the cognitive effort Coffee made you tired?

Josh: No, maybe. No, I just want to say I've read a— was reading a book mainly.

Tommy: No worries.

Josh: But outside of that, no, I went to bed, what, 10:30, woke up at 7. I've got no excuse.

Tommy: No, some days you win, some days you lose, and you just smashed the coffee. But you might be able to hear a bit of rain. We're in the office and it's just started bucketing down. My day yesterday, I mean, as much as I did see you because we did the podcast I had a moment, uh, where—

Josh: like a breakdown?

Tommy: No, it was almost a blow-up. You know my feelings towards— and I don't know, and we talked about the horse racing stuff where people have a real issue with horse racing based on cruelty.

Josh: This is the third day in a row that we've talked to you.

Tommy: Can we just bring it up? Because I think you find your thing, so there's things you don't give a shit about, or it's not the cause you're entering into the discussion on. Yeah, but for me, one of them And I don't— it's just evolved as I've got older. Maybe I'm becoming a grumpy old prick.

Josh: Probably.

Tommy: People who litter, it's just— it's slowly getting more infuriating to me. And I've got to watch myself because I look at— you heard, I've told the blow-up storey of me kicking the cigarette into the shop front that the person who was working at the shop was just smoking the durry out the front, flicked it on the ground, you kicked it in, booted it in.

Josh: And why did they say anything when you did that?

Tommy: Shocked. I mean, the fact is, you know, you're littering. Yeah, you can't— what, you're gonna come back at me with, 'You're a freggin rat'?

Josh: The danger was it was a petrol station, the whole place lit up.

Tommy: But so I'm driving along the Peen Highway, one of the big highways in Melbourne, and I see this car up ahead, the window's open, and immediately I flipped because I saw just a wrapper hand come out. Threw the wrapper out the side of the car. It was the back seat, so it was the back window, not the driver. Driver's window was also open.

Josh: A 10-year-old having a ciggy?

Tommy: No, it wasn't a ciggy, it was like a wrapper, usually a wrapper. And I was like, all right, I'm going to come up next to that car and just see who it is.

Josh: How fast were they going?

Tommy: Well, it's an 80 km/h highway, so we'll probably be travelling 75, 70.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: And like, I'm, I'm ready. I'm ready just to wind down the window and just give it to them. Yeah, gronk, you know, pull your head in.

Josh: What do you— for our international listeners, what is a gronk?

Tommy: I don't know, it's just a funny term that you can call people. We should look up the definition of a gronk. We'll get back to you on that one. But it's, it's like one of those ones.

Josh: Is it like a drongo?

Tommy: Yeah, it was a gronk. It's not a real— it's not an offensive term, it's like a combination of a bunch of stuff. But a gronk, I really like it. It's got, it's got cut through. Yeah, you bloody gronk. And so I was about to yell at this gronk, and I've come up next to the car, seen— first, first thing I could see was a woman driving, middle age. I get a little closer, it was a fucking toddler. This toddler was in the back.

Josh: Did the toddler unwind the—

Tommy: like, it was warm, it was warmish at this point, the sun was out, so this kid would have been 4. And so what you said, as I was approaching, another thing came out the window, the other part of the wrapper. And at that point I thought, I'm a bit triggered, I've got to watch it because I was ready to blow up and it was a child. And then I— because immediately I'm like, oh my dad, fuck, if Bodhi was doing that, I'd be annoyed. And I And if someone told me, I'd just have to, you know, you can't do that. He doesn't know right and wrong yet.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: Probably thinks it's a bit naughty, but doesn't understand that, you know, a poor King George Whiting just died.

Josh: And so what is that, a fish?

Tommy: King George Whiting.

Josh: Okay. Yeah. From the plastic. That's why it dies.

Tommy: Yeah. Ate the plastic, died. Couldn't be on your plate.

Josh: It's a little bit obscure. So you just ended up driving away?

Tommy: I couldn't do anything. I wasn't gonna, I almost thought like if I was in a situation, I would have said, oh, 'Your son just threw something out the back window,' because I know parents would be like, 'Oh, Timmy, you can't do that.' No, I feel like there would be parents who would tell you to fuck off.

Josh: True. I had one—

Tommy: she didn't seem like a parent to me to fuck off.

Josh: Did you surprise though? Like the McDonald's— I was at a McDonald's a year or a couple of years back now.

Tommy: Don't let your son eat that bloody Big Mac.

Josh: No, it was— I was in the car park and a lady slammed. Yeah, gronk, a drongo slammed her car door into my car as I was like sitting there.

Tommy: Not on.

Josh: And she had the audacity to tell me like basically I said, excuse me, did you just hit my car? And she said, I'll be with you in a minute, because she's putting her kid in the car. But it's just like, fuck this lady. But so I don't think that everyone will— what are you looking for?

Tommy: I was looking for my phone. I can't find it. I want to find I've got a really long XLR cord that I'm just walking around the studio with. Hang on, I'm at the computer. I've gone that far.

Josh: He's gone really far, guys.

Tommy: Definition of a gronk. G-R-O-N-K. We need it. I can't get past this. Urban Dictionary.

Josh: This is the official—

Tommy: the official Australian slang. A person that is totally lacking in fashion sense, motor skills, and/or social skills. Usually a total moron, an extremely unpleasant person, a drunk, or an unwanted guest.

Josh: Gronk.

Tommy: Sometimes a likeable idiot or a bogan, especially in Queensland.

Josh: Gronk or drunk?

Tommy: No, that's Gronk. G-R-O-N-K. Yeah, okay.

Josh: Oh, I'm glad, glad we got that sorted. Hey, talking about you not having your phone, I don't have my phone with me either, and it's mainly because I'm trying this, uh, social media thing.

Tommy: This is big for you.

Josh: Yeah, so I've, um, last night I was going into the settings. On Sundays is when— I don't know if you've been getting it of late, but Apple will send how long you've spent on your phone.

Tommy: Yeah, but yesterday was not a Sunday. Remember we started yesterday's episode? It feels like a sun—

Josh: uh, it did feel like a Sunday, 100%. And so did I get a notification? I was doing Sunday shit on Tuesday. It was a bit of me.

Tommy: It was like, fuck, it feels like Sunday, it must be Sunday.

Josh: I mustn't have gotten a notification. So every Sunday I normally get a notification, but I was looking at— I said spent 5 hours or something. It said that my time spent on my phone had gone up.

Tommy: The new update.

Josh: It's like 5 hours. Yeah, so the new update of iOS on Apple, which has been around since maybe September now.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: Screen Time is what it's called.

Tommy: And so this new function, well, it's been using—

Josh: yeah, well, it tells you more than— like, we've done some episodes where we'll talk about what— how much time we've spent on, um, specific apps. But the one thing that I haven't implemented with Screen Time, which is a new feature within iOS, is being able to limit the amount of time you're spending on individual apps.

Tommy: This was interesting because it— what did it—

Josh: what's it So what happens is you put in the time. So I've given myself 15 minutes on Instagram a day.

Tommy: That's for the whole entire day? That's all you get?

Josh: 5 minutes on Facebook, which I find a lot easier because I don't spend that much time on Facebook. And, um, then what happens is it will, um, it will— if you try and— if you go over the 15 minutes, all of a sudden the app will sort of be, um what do you call, like washed out, like you can't see it properly.

Tommy: Yeah, it looks like you can't actually access it.

Josh: Yeah, and so when you press it, it says you've used your limit and you can override it and you can even set it up so you need a password. So if you've got kids or whatever, you could set up a password so they can't access those accounts.

Tommy: That is a great idea for children.

Josh: But what I've been noticing, the stress in checking Instagram today, every time I'd go on it, I was like, like just seeing, like getting every minute, like there was no, one thing it did get rid of was the just scrolling. As soon as I'd like used up my, you know, time, I'd click home. I've already hit— it's, you know, after 4 PM, I've already hit my 15 minutes.

Tommy: Are you going to touch it for the rest of the day?

Josh: No.

Tommy: The thing that I find is that swiping, like just flicking up, scrolling, scrolling up, but then I'm actually thinking about something completely different. Yeah, thinking about that thing I've got to do. And so it's mindless.

Josh: Yeah. And so this is just a way of— it gave me like a 5-minute warning But it's just a good way of, um, making sure that I like it. You're not spending too much time on it.

Tommy: Yeah, I'm gonna, I'm gonna activate this.

Josh: How long are you gonna get? What do you think a reasonable amount of time to spend on Instagram?

Tommy: If you gave yourself 15 minutes, you could do 5. I'm gonna do 15 to see how actual hard that is, or how much I— if I actually hit it.

Josh: I definitely— I sent an email to someone today. Yes, that I would normally Instagram DM.

Tommy: Really?

Josh: Because I was like, I can't use— I don't want to use my 15 minutes on that. And then if I send something in the evening, I think it might— my guess is that it stops push notifications as well.

Tommy: I've turned off all, all mine.

Josh: So I wonder—

Tommy: made such a fucking difference.

Josh: But the thing around getting rid of push notifications, do you end up spending— it's blown my mind that yesterday was Tuesday and not Sunday. When did I read my book? Was that on Sunday? No, that was yesterday. You read all yesterday. It was yesterday.

Tommy: Yeah, because you were Instagram posting about reading.

Josh: I did the signaling, which we talked—

Tommy: and you've talked about it 4 times since.

Josh: I've read a book.

Tommy: Yeah, that's the 7th.

Josh: It's a new mate. No, on the book thing.

Tommy: Yes.

Josh: Dr. Jason Fox, who we've had on the show, friend of ours, he— I'm doing a video with him at the moment. And I filmed this whole bit of him talking about how he reads books and he uses a grey lead pencil.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: And he sort of marks it up. And Austin Kleon, who wrote "Steal Like an Artist," talks about, if you just type in reading with a pencil into Google, Austin Kleon's blog comes up. And I've been doing it where you basically get a grey lead and you underline bits they suggest things like arguing with the author in the margins. So if you don't agree with something, writing out—

Tommy: but just basically, do they encourage you to send it?

Josh: No, I think that the— what it— what I've noticed it was doing was it takes it from— I think that reading can be this thing where you need to get to the— it's about like finishing it quickly, whereas what this has forced me to do is really take in everything that I'm reading and understanding, because I need to constantly have my critical thinking and saying, oh, underlining this stuff, like, what does this actually— like, I'm constantly asking, what does this mean and how does this connect to the point they're trying to make?

Tommy: And so you've— you, you feel like you're going deeper on absolutely what's written based on a grey lead.

Josh: I'm, um, I listened to the audiobook Deep Work And now that's like the first book I thought, this is a good book as a first one. Yeah, reading it with the whole, um, pencil.

Tommy: Are you going against, uh, audiobooks? Do you think—

Josh: yeah, I think value— I reckon that the comprehension is way better when you are, um, reading it if you're reading it properly versus an audiobook.

Tommy: Definitely.

Josh: And you can also with the idea of that sort of deep work is you're not sort of shallow listening. Like when you've got an audiobook, you can be doing 100 other things.

Tommy: Yeah, definitely.

Josh: Whereas with the book, I'm like single focus. I put the timer on for 2 hours and I just read. I've only read 100 pages. Like I've probably spent 4 hours reading out of the 300-page book. I've only read 100 pages.

Tommy: Yeah, so it's very slow. You're also doodling in the book as well.

Josh: Yeah, but I was like, yeah, like if you look at it, what's cool is Bree had gotten a book too, and she was reading while I was reading. And I gave her a grey letter and said, I explained like the idea and showed her the blog post. At first she was like, oh, it was like going to be a— it was a book on Bill Cunningham, who is— he's died recently, I think in the last 12 months. But he is this amazing fashion photographer for the New York Times.

Tommy: Oh yeah.

Josh: There's a great, uh, doco on him on Netflix. But he, um, he was sort of all about style, and he would do stuff for— maybe it wasn't even just New York Times, I think for Vogue as well. I think like Anna Wintour and him would collaborate on stuff. And he would, um, you know, back from film days, but he would always use like a prime 50mm lens and get all these great shots. Anyway, Bree got a book on him and at the start she's like, I don't want to sort of wreck it by writing things. Yeah, that's what I think. But you need, like, if you're going to keep the book, like what I've done with Deep Work is I could turn to any page and within 15 seconds understand all the contents really of what they were saying based on how I'd underlined.

Tommy: Yeah, I think it's, it will trigger a memory of what you were probably thinking about what was being said there. I even know podcasts or audiobooks, when I'm listening to it, one of the things I have found is the— if I listen back to it, it triggers the memory of where I was at that moment.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: So it is this opposite thing. People are gamifying it though, to, you know, 2x speed listening to audiobook if the mission's to get through it quicker.

Josh: Well, yeah, if the goal is to get through quicker, there's a bunch of what you can I can, yeah, you can squeeze every minute of your day listening to stuff while you're doing things. But I'm trying to, and especially what they talk about in Deep Work, having specific amounts of time, blocks of time allocated to doing things that aren't just responsive. And so that's even me limiting the social media stuff is I wanna get to, at the moment that 15 minutes was spread over a minute here, a minute there. But what's fascinating is because I had the limited amount of time, I was realising when I was like, I needed to do a task and then I would just be like, oh, I'll just cheque Instagram. Like fucking weird, like we are weird humans.

Tommy: We are. I was just thinking last week we had that intense week of lots of thought and lots of decisions and thinking about stuff that we're doing and where we're going. And so lots of intense conversations.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: Do you think there is a point— and we even touched on this, I can't remember what you actually said about it— do you think there's a point where it's like you need to settle down a bit? Yeah. In terms of how deep you're taking every conversation?

Josh: Well, I don't think that it's, um— I think the difference between— what I haven't worked out yet within the context of deep work is how it fits into a partnership. So deep, deep work, I think, just requires, you know, flow plays into it. The idea of being able to— and I was saying, I think one of the times that we entered into deep work last week, or the week before, whenever that was, was doing the showreel where we were just like, you know, throwing things in. Like, it was this, this cadence which felt— this flow which felt really good. I think that, um what you're describing is probably different to what's happening. So we're going deep, but it's this willingness to react to anything and then start going deep on it. Yeah. Where it's a different— whereas it's different to be able to put a time in the calendar where it's like, we are going deep on this one thing. Yeah. Whereas I think that it can almost be a distraction or a, um, a way of avoiding tasks or procrastinating by taking any little thing that doesn't require a big conversation and going deep on that as a, as a sort of a distraction.

Tommy: Yeah, definitely. It's draining and it takes a lot of effort and it, it's probably not always productive. While sometimes it is really productive there's a fine line between needing to have the conversation right now versus let's do it later.

Josh: Well, I felt that like we, we were doing some work today, um, before you had a meeting with a client, and it was having index cards and it was working out audience and story, all the different components. That to me felt like great deep work.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: And you were like, you still, if you think about it, you were you had to— Bodhi was being sick, so you're calling your mum and calling Amy and doing all this sort of stuff. I think those are the moments where deep work is going to be amazing. Like, I felt like we were entering it, we were playing in the area of deep work.

Tommy: It's foreplay.

Josh: But yeah, exactly. Well, it was foreplay, but if you think about it, we were still highly distracted. Yes. Whereas I feel like if we actually made some efforts to say, okay, cut off our phone.

Tommy: Like, yeah, how do you not let it be too rigid and structured in terms of the effect it has on the people around us? So for instance, I felt like today I got a box tick to-do list email from somebody, and I, and I got— and maybe that's their strategy, they have this system where it's like a calendar where they have a reminder to reply back to me around something.

Josh: And it's like what, they wanted a bunch of tasks done, or it's like, hey, they have a bunch of tasks done there.

Tommy: And see, maybe I'm thinking too much about it. I felt like I was on the receiving end of this implementation of a strategy that they use to follow up people on stuff.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: And it's someone I know, but I felt like it was like, that was a— felt like it was a real— I was fitting into their structured, you know, strategy.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: And, and so what I'm saying is like this deep work and fitting into this and shutting out, there's, there's a lot— there's a, there's not a bunch of fluidity in that.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: But I see the benefit of doing it as well.

Josh: Um, well, ticking, ticking boxes, like what they— what, um, Cal Newport talks about in Deep Work is that the shallow work the responding on Slack, you know, responding to instant messages, emailing people back, all of those things feel like progress. And, um, it is this, uh, it's also almost a metric that we can use, whereas deep work is a little bit harder to understand the return on investment. But the thing is, I think that part of what deep work can do is actually force you to have some strategies around how you're going to deal with email. So rather than it being something that you have open all the time or constantly checking, I feel like, are you responding to— like, I, I think that most people do a shit job with email anyway.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: And so I actually feel like if I said I'm going to spend half an hour just on email every day, I would be doing a better job at email anyway than my current situation, which is just responding to what happens. I spent like an hour today going through, and I had emails from like October 26th which were in my inbox but I just had never gotten to because it was low priority. Whereas if I actually had 15 minutes every day to completely clear that, I'd be in a better situation.

Tommy: Yeah, I think it is a discipline to start doing that because you would be better for it, because the other option is not having any understanding of your approach and it just happening organically. But sometimes you might not get to it, sometimes you will, but sometimes you'll spend way too much time there.

Josh: Other people's agenda will then start to set that. Like, there's some people, some clients who are way noisier than others.

Tommy: Yes.

Josh: Should they be getting more, uh, time?

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: I think that there's a way of doing it where it's saying, hey, like, um, we get— we're gonna get— but we're gonna have some thinking time with this and then get back to you. Yeah, rather than this like back and forth.

Tommy: I had a client tell me that, you know, what I love about you is that you, you're so good at getting back to me quickly. But then I was like, fuck, I realised him saying that to me was like a bad thing.

Josh: Setting you up.

Tommy: Yeah, because then I was like, oh God, that's the, that's what I've said. Yeah, because I have been able to get back to you really.

Josh: I, yeah, when friends say to you, what I love about you is you're always available. Yeah, it's probably not what they think of you.

Tommy: They think that I call him whenever I want.

Josh: Yeah, which is— that a good thing? Is being the mate that's always available, is that a good trait?

Tommy: Um, if it— I mean, what's the other option? That you're hard to get a hold of? Who do you want to be? I think it comes down to who you are as a person. I would hate to be the person can never get a hold of that bloke.

Josh: Yeah. Um, is there a way of doing it where it's like, if you're very clear on your communications— this is what I almost feel, it's like it's one or the other. It's either you are responding straight away or you're shit at responding. Yeah. What about like if you— if someone knew that they're going to get a response from you every single day, like they know that like you cheque your emails twice a day, do you reckon we could run our business off checking our emails twice a day?

Tommy: So are we doing the two? Is this what you're saying? Why do we do two lots of emails per day?

Josh: I don't, I don't think that is it, but I think that it's setting up specific time where we need to do these big tasks and we finish them. Because the point in the book is that the react— reactive sort of stuff, the social media, doing like constantly responding to people, always being available, that's actually going to be an easy commodity that everyone's going to do. And the hard bit, the bit that's going to be more rare, is people switching off from all of that, not feeding that, and actually spending the time to deep dive into things.

Tommy: Seth Godin was saying that he can only be contactable from his loved ones.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: And he switches off a whole bunch of other stuff. I mean, emails— he's not the guy to go to for inspo in how to run your emails.

Josh: What was the context? What was he saying?

Tommy: I think— no, he was talking— I think it was in our podcast. So he doesn't have the distractions of the other platforms because he's not on it. Emails, he's vice versa. But he also is only contactable. And I think you can set it up so people can't call you, like it won't actually ring, it might go to voicemail.

Josh: Which is interesting for a service-based business like we have.

Tommy: Yes.

Josh: There's extra complexities to it, but I don't think it's like throwing the baby out with the bathwater. I don't think we need to, I don't think it means that we need to be responsive constantly. Like I actually think we can be better communicators by being very strict with our time.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: And saying that one thing that Seth, Seth Godin was on Tim Ferriss's podcast. Seth decided when he was younger, when he was around 18, that the thing was that what he was going to do is anytime he said he was going to do something, he was going to be the guy who actually finished and, you know, showed up and met the deadline. And so then it wasn't a case of saying yes to everything. It was being very clear on, on what he was—

Tommy: if you're that guy, you need to be able to hit that mark. Yeah, I like that.

Josh: I got an email, um, today as well. I've been trying to clear out my newsletters and shit. Okay. I got one from iSubscribe. Do you know what iSubscribe is?

Tommy: No, but I have been fascinated. I've sort of looked in on your your email screen from time to time. It's amazing how much things you've signed up to and you get.

Josh: Well, I mean, I subscribe— I've got like 7 emails, email addresses from over the years, and they're all in Apple Mail and they come through that one inbox. iSubscribe has nothing to do with email subscriptions. iSubscribe is a, um, a way of subscribing, like it's just a magazine subscription service. So they've got all the different magazines and you can use this one service to be able to subscribe to them. The reason why it— I hadn't seen it in a while. It was one of my— I've only just consolidated all my email. I used to fucking log into each one to see emails. Now I've got it all in the one thing. And so iSubscribe hadn't really been on my mind, but it was in one of my older email accounts that I get this newsletter.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: The reason I signed up to iSubscribe was because in around 2011 I, um, there was a competition with Virgin Australia with Velocity Points, and it was basically the chance to win, uh, 1 million Velocity Points with the frequent flyer program, or 4 times 100,000. So 4 people were going to win 100,000 points. Yes. And all you had to do to enter was if every dollar that you spent with one of their participating stores, you would get one entry into to win, right? So say you spent $400 on cookies, cookies, you would get 400 entries, right? And so sounds great. Yeah, it sounds great.

Tommy: I'm in.

Josh: And so iSubscribe was one of the the possible businesses that you could buy stuff through. And for whatever reason, I was like, I'm gonna deep dive into the terms of service on this, terms and conditions.

Tommy: On the competition.

Josh: On the competition. Okay. And see what the competition said. And the competition, 'cause I was getting right into frequent flyer points. And on the terms and conditions, it said that you could also, not only, it was one, $1 equals 1 point. Yeah. How, uh, sorry, $1 equals 1 entry.

Tommy: Yes.

Josh: However, you could also buy things using Velocity points, and it was 1 point equals 1 entry. Right. Now the thing is, $400 worth of magazines would cost me— it's like 80— I had 80,000 points. Yeah. In, in the system. So I was like Who the fuck? No one, like no one is going to use, who are in their right mind would spend 80,000 points to buy $400 worth of magazines. 'Cause 80,000 points could get you an upgrade to business class flying to LA, right?

Tommy: And who the fuck reads magazines?

Josh: And so I thought, this is fucking amazing. I'm getting like, I am going to, based on probability or whatever the fuck, like, you know, I'm not Rain Man or anything, but I thought— You're a winner. Yeah, I thought, let me— I'll buy these magazines using points. I'll use my whole 80,000 points, which is Sydney return. Yeah, it was like, it's a lot. Like, I was like, no one's gonna fucking do this. Anyway, I buy that. So I ended up subscribing to like 4 magazines or whatever, um, like a design magazine, all this sort of thing. Anyway, a month later I get a call from Virgin Australia. I won 100,000 points. Did you?

Tommy: It worked. Far out, when was this?

Josh: Yeah, this was 2011. This was a while ago. And so that was my whole, uh, sort of— oh, he's confident— intro into points.

Tommy: Oh, they thought, we've got this. Yeah, we've got this kid, he thinks he's walking away with a great deal. He dropped 80k points with— he's only 20, 20 in the clear.

Josh: Yeah, well, so, so can you believe that though? It's pretty amazing. That is a good hustle.

Tommy: That's a real good hustle.

Josh: I don't reckon it would work nowadays because I think there would be so many people on that same sort of, um, they'd be reading that sort of shit.

Tommy: It's prize piggery. Oh, putting your snout into the T's and C's. Yeah, you're a real prize pig if you're getting deep in those, trying to look for loopholes. But this is how they do it, dude. I remember watching ACA or The Current Affair, yeah, or it was like one of those news Sunday night bullshit shows, and it was about prize pigs. They didn't—

Josh: they didn't serve them up like that.

Tommy: There's no pig term used. Gronks.

Josh: Gronks. Drongos.

Tommy: Prize dronks. But this is what they do. They're There's people that like full-time job at home going through looking into teasers, like doing this exact thing.

Josh: Yeah, there was a guy who I follow on Twitter who NAB, National Australia Bank, had a promotion where every transaction that you made gave you an entry in to win points or it gave you frequent flyer points through Qantas. And what he worked out was he worked out the different, Australian businesses that he could make 1-cent purchases. And so he was just hitting up CityLink. I think it was CityLink. There was a few other businesses making 1-cent purchases to these bills. And he's getting— so he got enough, he did a round-the-world business class flight with it. Absolute legend.

Tommy: Yeah. I'm always blown away by people's creativity when it comes to— like, I look at big companies that come up with these things what is that, they didn't have the resources to think about every possibility.

Josh: Yeah, you think about there's got to be, um, it's going to be a bunch of ways that you could, if you wanted to, the whole points hacking thing. Yeah, to get a lot of points, but it requires a lot of fucking around or risking a lot. I had a lot of magazines, like, fuck, like, I ended up chucking them all out. Never, like, there's a tip, don't, don't buy magazines. They're a waste.

Tommy: Unless you own a doctor's clinic.

Josh: Yeah, they could be, maybe.

Tommy: I get into them while I'm in the doctor's.

Josh: Yeah, outside of that.

Tommy: In the waiting area.

Josh: We did have, before we go, we had an email from someone who, they, I don't know their actual, their name on the, can you—

Tommy: What email address?

Josh: The hi@thedailytalkshow email. Can you look at, there's one where it's two letters, like it's a first and last name, but they're just Oh yeah, CY. CY. Can you read? What is CY's subject? What's their subject line?

Tommy: Free sticker.

Josh: Okay. And what is the— and what does it say in the body of the text?

Tommy: Hello, I was wondering if there are any free stickers still available. Thank you.

Josh: Okay, CY. I had a look and it's— there's a— you don't say the person's name, but there's a person's name. If you haven't fucking learnt from yesterday, if that person's name— I did some Googling or whatever, it's just some random in the US, which I don't know if that's—

Tommy: You're our bestie if you're listening to the show.

Josh: But this is my, this is my theory.

Tommy: You don't think they listen to the show? Listen, did they see our Reddit?

Josh: I said to, I said to Bray, I said, I don't, I don't think this is legit. She's like, what are you fucking— Of course it's legit. I think what's happened, and I think we could— Let's— I'm committing to this. I'm actually committing to doing this. I think that they're running a bot or they're doing a search for free stickers online and then they're reaching out to— they're trying to find an email address. They found the Hi@TheDailyTalkShow because if they were listening, they would put their address in. They— but they never did. But they didn't just say stickers in the subject line. They've said free stickers and then they've also said, hey, stickers still available, which We've said every single time when it's up, up until what point.

Tommy: Yeah, well, we have all the comms, and sorry if we haven't been clear.

Josh: Uh, stickers in the subject line, hi@thedailytalkshow.com is the email. In the body of the, the email, put your address.

Tommy: Yes.

Josh: So do you think that this, this— are you on board with my theory?

Tommy: I mean, I love that, I love that theory, and I want it to evolve. And we've been— we're getting, uh, played Well, here, how about this?

Josh: I reckon we should start a thing. Let's see how many free stickers that we can accumulate through searching online. What I'm gonna— I'll tell the theory on how I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna go into Google, in quotation marks I'm gonna write "free stickers." Because if you could literally do that, if you in quotation marks wrote "free stickers," our podcast episode would come up, and then they would see the email, and then they would just— and you can actually create a bot We could get Conspiracy Jimmy onto it. Wouldn't be very hard to create a bot and an Excel spreadsheet of emailing.

Tommy: Are you okay if CY just messages back, say, dudes, just fucking forgot?

Josh: CY, not only that, CY, I just want stickers.

Tommy: Got a bit nervous.

Josh: CY, if you've listened this far, yeah, that's what I'm gonna do. CY has listened this far. If CY sends us an email using the email address that they sent it to, the Gmail address, yeah, right? I'll give them personally not only the stickers but $50 Australian cash. Really? In the letter, my own money, $50 Australian dollars. If they are listening and they write back, it can't be some fucker who creates a new email address to see why. I want to see if this is—

Tommy: Well, if you attempt that, we'll still send you stickers if you give us an address. Yeah, you just won't get the $50. Yeah, we're specifically asking for the email. No one will know it except you and I.

Josh: Yeah, so if that person just responds back, as we're a new business Yeah, that's personally coming out of my— that's my personal cash.

Tommy: That's good, I was just checking.

Josh: Personal cash. Sorry, bro. But I'm so certain because it would be great if CK— so CY has listened this far, fucking good on him too.

Tommy: No, I like this confidence and I hope you lose $50. And I hope CY just, you know, you're just chilling somewhere over in America and, uh, oh no, hang on, what's going to convert I mean, they're gonna end up with about $20.

Josh: Hi@thedailytalkshow.com if you want to send us an email. Otherwise, uh, we'll see tomorrow, guys.

Tommy: See ya!