#208 – Craig Harper & Your Internal Voice/

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Wait a minute.

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conversation, sometimes worth recording, with Josh Janssen and Tommy Jenkins

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daily Talk Show Episode Two.

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We've got friend of the show back

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Craig hapa. Hi boys. Just really terrific to see you handsome little faces. Thanks. Right

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Well, we're back in your, your house or in your studio. It's nice. I I've seen since last time there's some books have started piling up. I take it, you've read them.

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I've read all of them. I bring more and more books in just so that people think I'm learned. And you fall in for Tom,

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the halo mask book. What do you think of Elon Musk?

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Elon Musk is? He's an alien. So he's not he's more humanoid than human. Yeah. I like it. I'm in interested in interesting people. So do I like him? Yeah, I like him. I think he's cool. I think he's interesting. I think he's, you know, he's like, everyone. He's got issues. And sometimes he says things I'm like, really, he really, that's, that's what you're going with. But what I do love about him, when I've watched three hours of him with Joe Rogan, or two or two and a half hours, or whatever it was was, he doesn't say things flippantly. He's very thoughtful, like Joe would ask him a question. And he would literally take 20 seconds before the first word of the answer came out. Like God, come on. I reckon he's, I think some people who like that who are intellectually and creatively amazing are sometimes that perceived to be a little bit socially awkward, clunky and inept. And he's all of that. But if you can, you know, get you why around that I think he's fascinating, you know, and I don't think everything he does is necessarily terrific. But I like him. I'm interested in people like that.

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Do you think people put too much emphasis on they say that Elon Musk saw the Steve Jobs and I try and deconstruct? Well, you know, Steve Jobs was an asshole. So maybe this is a management style.

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Yeah, maybe. I think also, you know, especially everyone says, this sounds a look Klay shy, but but, you know, sometimes not all, but some of these are pretty good at just trying to find what's wrong with someone who's doing great. You know, I'd personally, you know, even if somebody is a bit of a decade on one hand, but a high achiever on the other will, you know, I'm not that I condone the anything, you know, any bad behaviour or whatever, but at the same time, I, I'm very much and and it sounds a bit philosophical, but I'm like, Well, what can I learn from this dude? So even even, you know, you guys, you've met some amazing people over the journey with your podcast, even sitting talking to people, stuff rubs off, you know, and because in the era of the podcast was so many of all of us have access to, you know, conversations like this, with people much more interesting than me, thank God. You know, you can literally sitting at a cyber table with a bunch of people just having a fucking great conversation. And for me, that I reckon the podcast is, for me personally, it's the best invention of the last two decades will internet slash podcast all of it goes together, but because it's revolutionised my life, because I am innately curious. And I spent a lot of my life not being able to access interesting, fascinating, clever people because you'd have to go and read a book, which is ik, but it's not really the same as listening to Elon Musk, have a conversation, you know, or Russell Brand, or whoever it is people that I just find, you know, ends of the spectrum really fascinating. But, like, I listened to the podcast that you guys did with Seth,

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Josh, he now has gone bald, like Seth Godin

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getting there. Yeah. Transitioning, transitioning naturally.

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See, I don't and I don't recommend people descends God minute to but I don't think a lot of people understand. Like, you guys, when you said, we've got Seth, I was so fucking proud and jealous. Probably about 70% jealous, 30% proud that you're talking to, in my opinion, one of the greatest minds in the world, like, I just love the way that Seth Godin thinks I'm fascinated with. I don't really give a fuck about bodies, which is ironic, because I'm an exercise scientist. And I come from that back and back bodies of, okay, we all have one, we need one to get around. But I'm far more fucking fascinated in people and human behaviour and the way that we think and the way that we create, you know, reality and the way that we process the world around us and the way that we, you know, can but it's safe to break it down. He has ideas, he shares ideas. He writes books, he does a few keynotes has some courses.

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And I love the way it's what's his MBA in what's

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called MBA, and he's like, it's probably an accredited, I'm like, so fucking clever. Because, you know, it's like you're selling the thing that people might want to try to criticise you on? No, there's no fucking accreditation. It's not recognised anywhere. But by the way, it's brilliant. It's so clever. It's so clever,

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you know. And so the podcasting versus because you're in the unique position where you've done the radio thing, and we've had people who have had, TJ has had his own journey with radio, I've had mine, but you've got a bit of a I feel like you've got a different perspective in radio, where it's like, you're not plugged trying to play the FM, you know, shock jockey or you know, anything like that. What's been the learning in doing a podcast versus that whole radio thing?

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Yeah, so I did a lot of a lot of talk radio. So I did 12 years on SDN, and, you know, other stuff on FM, but even the stuff that I did on FM was part from a lot of him. But all the stuff I did on like gold, which was on gold for maybe five or six years, it's it was me sharing thoughts and ideas. So it's still talked based, but I guess the difference between podcasting and radio is the freedom, you know, and there are no rules. You know, I mean, you've got to be there's a point, I guess, but you create your own rules. What do we want to talk about? Where are we going? What's happening? What are our ideas? How long does it go for even before the start, I went, so how long we chatting for you like you guys, come on, I 4040 cool, then let's go. I can eat stuff. That's what a plan. Like he can't do that with radio, as you know, coming up on the news at six minutes past nine. And then we've got this bloke then we've got that bloke you've got four and a half minutes with him, then we got and they'll be esteemed to that. Then we come back and don't forget to back announced that when we come out of the way, you know,

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did you like the mechanics of that? I like

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that. But I'd like to freestyle in the middle of it. You know, it's like even when I worked on channel 10. I did. I remember one day, I was at the show grounds or somewhere I was doing a show

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at the Melbourne show. I was doing an OB soon and I

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were going across to hops at it, you know, and he's chatting with and they wanted it scripted. I'm like, I can't do it. Yeah, they like they wanted all autocue. And oh, now we're chatting with Brian from bloody good, Brian. So question one. So tell me how I'm like, I can't just let me fucking talk to mine. And it'll be all right. You know? And so that for me, that the organic nature of podcasts is just a beautiful fit for my personality and my skills and the stuff that I enjoy the long

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form stuff. I think I love and I think you Josh, you know, I think you've tried the talking to camera but I think what resonates mostly with you is a long form conversation where you can get really layered Craigs the oj blog. How many subscribers to your blog? Because I that's how I had into your world

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edit. zenaton Yeah, a legit 75,000 Yeah, it's

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crazy. And how often we do it

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every day. So you end up we've got a 75,000 in boxes, with biceps

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fucking half his IQ and a million of these money.

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It was Seth Godin on your radar then

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when I used to. I used to read his blog all the time. Yeah, yeah. And I mean that the introduction of the blog was amazing, too. Sorry, I'm off my that I should know better. Yeah, I mean, and they were like I used to race guy years called Steve Polina Who is this dude, who was this weird kind of motivation mindset guy who went off the rails and almost started a cult I think. not interesting. We've all done it. Well, we're trying. Well, I have a cult so we're actually out of it. I want to plug that at the end if we can.

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That's what I've always thought you know if I was gonna have I'm not gonna have a cup but if I was gonna have a cup of colada fucking calm and peaceful, calm guy. Oh, that's, of course it is. It's in the name you dick. its own Craig's coach for a reason.

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The uncertified coach

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john apologetically, you know, cultish. cultish.

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Relax. Do you think that podcaster like this long form thing away in a bubble to way think it's like fucking bee's knees? Or do you think the world cares about this shit? Or a way just have we created our Well, the people who don't care about it? They're dying soon. Because they're all just fine. And all the older. Let's talk right in summer God, well, this look right. This is similar to talk radio.

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Exactly. This is this is, you know, I mean, when TV came in, everybody had their, you know, like put a lot of people didn't want to do TV because they somehow thought it was evil and corrupt. You know? Just why people didn't want to even appreciate rock and roll or whatever. And I think people tell themselves people don't understand. But I reckon I've personally turned 1000 people on to podcast because I often in front of an audience, like one of my you know, top 10 messages is hanging out with people who drag you up and people go often go to me. Oh, yeah, but you know, my brothers are fuck with no got three friends. And two of them are, you know, blending dirt bags, and whatever, I got a get it. So you don't need to be in the same room, my hang out with Joe Rogan or hang out with Seth Godin, or a hangout with Russell Brand or a hangout with

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sorry, to the people who are just hanging out with the daily talks.

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What it is, it's you you are you know, you're not in the conversation. But you're in the conversation because, like the best part about what I love about this is there is no I hang on, let's Can we just Can we do that bit again? Yeah. And let's from the top, Tom, there's none of that. It's just a conversation with, you know, peaks and troughs, and ebbs and flows. And I think I think what's going to happen with podcast is, which is like any business or product or service, the good ones will thrive and the shit ones won't. You know, I remember Seth saying to you guys, the average audience is 100 people. Yeah. And the average podcast, right? So then you factor in all the ones that have got 10s of millions of, you know, like, Joe, who's got, I think, four plus million subscribers. And then there's the people at the other end who have three listeners, you know, and I think those and also people don't appreciate the work that goes into doing this, like what you guys do, which is five days a week a podcast, people don't understand how hard that is. And, and it's, it's even though in the moment when you're here, when we're having the conversation, it's nice, it's enjoyable, especially hopefully, if you're doing it with somebody that's not a bad person that there's a connexion with. But there's the organisation, the logistics, the money that you don't make, you know, the time that you invest the resources that you need the equipment, the time that you're away from your kids and your missus and your all of that stuff, right? to hopefully three years down the track, have 100,000 listeners per episode and be earning x y. Zed per year, which is not your total goal. But part

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of it. Yes, Seth say he wrote a blog just after we had saw seen him. And my friend sent it to me. Is it coincidence maybe that you guys are on and it was podcasting is the new blogging? And he was insistent, you know, and he talks about? You're not going to make money from podcasting. very unlikely. And that was the same for blogging, you know more about the principle and you know, showing up and putting it out there. What can you take, like, if you heat it with the blogging stuff? Yeah. What was the thought then? Like? Because if the comparison now is podcasting? Yeah. And it's like it What's this? What was the thought then? Because there is similarities. And yeah, so

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I don't this I don't think about making money. Not not the way that people might think of business owner would. course, I think about making money in the sense that we need to pay the bills and tick boxes, but my priority, like I know, if my focus is on creating connexion, doing good stuff, writing good stuff, sharing good ideas. And I even wrote on my I even wrote on my social media the other day, I put up a little whiteboard post that says, basically, thanks for letting me help you, because it makes me a better version of me or something fluffy like that. And I'm on dude sends me up. Yep, sure, whatever. And I'm like, okay, that's cool. And so then I wrote, I get it, I get it. But believe it or not, the more that I invest into people, so I have, you know, on my, my main Facebook thing, I have 5000 friends and 25,000 followers, so that's 30, then I have nearly 20, on the other one, that's 50, then I'll have 11 and a half or something on Insta, that's 60 Plus, and then I have a few on Twitter and a few on you know, so maybe heading towards 70,000 people, the vast majority of those people will never buy book, never spend a cent, which is cool, never come to a programme never come to a workshop. And in a nice way, I don't care, I don't care. Like I get as much joy out of doing a podcast with you guys sitting here just talking to two good guys. And maybe he's a good looking good guy, guys. I do about going and doing a gig for thousands of dollars for now, or whatever it is. And, and, or, you know, I still need to pay the bills and and I still need to tick the boxes and and have a business that works. And, you know, look after Melissa, Melissa, who's my business partner and but at the same time, I just do things that I like doing. And I like talking and I like learning and I like I like hanging out with interesting people. And so I've basically just, you know, created a situation where that's now my job. You know, where I get paid to talk to people about shit, I love them. But if I was a plumber, I would be talking about this stuff.

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The plumber the podcast, I've seen a few plumbing podcast how that has has that at all, like upon reflection of your life. different stages. Yeah. Has it changed?

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Yeah, sure. So I mean, we the opposite. Yeah. No, not really, I've always been a bit deep and philosophical. But at the same time, you know, somewhat ambitious and excited about, you know, building stuff and creating stuff. Like I'm pretty good at gronk I've got an idea. And now I'm doing it. Yeah. Whereas a lot of people are very good at theory, and I live there for fucking ever. Whereas I have, you know, like, I thought I might write a book I wrote a book now I've done nine or so. I wouldn't mind getting into media, I got an it's not like someone rang me up and said, Do you want a gig? Yeah, you know, and I'm, and I'm not special. And I'm not super gifted and I'm not super talented. So there's no ego in this. I'm just saying, you know, if you go Alright, there's a thing that I want to do I want to I want to do a podcast right? Or I want to write a book or I want to do a PhD or I want to earn 200 grand a year or I want to overcome that addiction. So you go cool, that's the goal. Right now what are the things that I need to do not want to do not what's comfortable, not what's quick, easy or familiar, but what are the things that I need to do now to make that happen or to make that more likely to happen? And then they become a non negotiable so for me and you know, the storey you know, for a long time I worked in the city MySpace and I fucking loved it and spent my day in gyms and you know, coaching coaching people and training people and educating and doing fitness tests and health evaluations and talking to people about all the practical the micros and macros and fucking sets and reps and volume and intensity. And then you know, I've autonomy got well probably 27,000 conversations about fat asses and legs is enough, you know, and you go I'm actually now more interested in the human who lives in the body. I'm more interested in the psychology and the emotion and the fear and the anxiety and the decision making and the resilience and the creativity and the attitude and the personality then I am the biceps and triceps and so because all of that internal stuff drives the external stuff anyway, nobody accidentally ate cake. Nobody accidentally avoids the gym

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Josh told a storey a couple days ago about

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it wasn't an accident. Definitely I had to go to the cheesecake shop and order it and decide to get half half because you can do that like pizza you can get

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related CAKE CAKE is Craig's vice that he hasn't can't go you can crack cocaine

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so it's like you're talking to an addict about you know just some trigger had recently you expect me to be fat and happy for

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you and the cheesecake storey it was

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made cheesecakes for Craig as they hear him talking about chocolate.

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I did a gig in Adelaide once and I'd written not long before about my addiction to cheesecake and I'm kidding, by the way but about getting not get fat. And and I saw I did a an open to the public workshop and there was it was 300 is quite a few people there. I got 14 cheesecakes.

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10 people turned up with a cheesecake for me. I'm like, come on.

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It's like when we went to Jeff Jarrett's hotel room and he had heaps of Vegemite, and just a horse statue. Because he really man loves horses doing a workshop in Melbourne and the people that came

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a part of it right

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had gifted him his names and stuff and they obviously knew what he liked the

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horses but now you you're not a full Shetland pony was a nice

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vibe. You're not a full chase chaotic until you shit your pants from doing it really which I haven't done yet. So I'm all clear. The the podcast

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in mind, gone lunch after this.

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The that idea that people like I've had people come to us and say, I know I i need to do a pod a podcast is something that I need to do. Yeah. Versus where TJ and I have come from is we just fucking love doing this thing. And by the sounds of it, you just love having a conversation. But then there's a lot of coaches who might be really good at coaching. And they say what you do what they say other people, it's like, I need to take this box. Should they bother attempting at all? Or is that is that a red flag?

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I think as long as they understand what it involves you talking about a podcast? Yeah, yeah, yeah. What understand what it involves on a practical level in terms of people are? Not Not Not all people. But some people have a very unrealistic expectation of what it's going to be. Yeah, you know, and they see the shiny result. And also, it's like, I say to people, I get approached a lot by people who, either one want to be a speaker to want to be an author, or three, not so much. But periodically be a podcast. I'm like, cool. So you want to be a speaker, you want to cool? Who do you want to talk to? Our will? You know, I mean, you know, anyone? I'm like, okay, maybe want to think a bit safer on that. Right. Okay, so what do you messages? What? Well, you want to be a speaker? So what are your key messages? To the people in the room on the chairs looking at you are? Well, you know, I, I just want to you know, I just want to motivate people. All right? Well, no one else has thought of that. Fabulous should be a cakewalk. Like it, which is not saying you can't do it with the cart before the horse, you need to fucking figure out. Okay, you want to cool? What's your timeline? What are you going to talk about? What are your messages? What are your storeys around those messages? What's the impact for the audience? What's the potential value? Why would someone pick up because there's already 10 million people doing that,

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liking all those other boys

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taken all those boxes been? And that's not saying you can't do it that's need to? That's to say you need to go into this, if you like, do you really want to do it? Because if you do that's cool, going with your eyes wide open and realise that you might have to do somewhere between one and 1000 presentations before someone's going to pay your fuck load of money.

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Maybe more? What's the consistency in the the people that you've seen come to you that have said I want to do this? And you've shot them a few questions, and they've actually gone and done it? What is the consistent thing behind it? What do you mean?

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So what's the motivation? Yeah,

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cuz I think well, what are the answers to life?

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Like, okay, so I feel like people and and again, you know, like, I'm, I'm not blunt, because I want to be blunt. I'm blunt, because I don't want people to waste their time. Right. So if you want to lose weight, and you ready to do the work, cool, I'll help otherwise, fuck off. Right? It's just a pointless conversation. If you want to, if you genuinely want to become a speaker, or, or whatever it is, you need to be genuinely ready to do the work, roll up the sleeves, persevere, have a process, have a accountability, have structure, get uncomfortable, keep getting uncomfortable, be resilient deal with peaks deal with troughs, and then stick your head up in a year and go, how am I going? Because you might be there you might be 5% there you might be nowhere. And that's just the idea of things is way more comfortable and sexy than the practical reality of the process. So, you know, an idea requires no sacrifice or discipline and intention requires no sweat or energy. But to to take that thing out of your head from that theoretical construct into a living breathing organism is just work, right? And people don't want to do the work. This is the common. If you said to me, what's the thing that gets in, you know, if there's one thing that most gets in people's way, in terms of stopping them fulfilling their potential reaching their goal, living their purpose, whatever fluffy live, where you are, in other words, succeeding, whatever that means to them. It's the fact that they want do the house work consistently, they won't get uncomfortable.

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Have you ever done the hard work on something only to discover that you would doing it for raising outside of those core values? So say, as a coach, there's a lot of things that coaches do, they might they might be speaking, they might be doing workshops, they might have a podcast? Do you ever been in a meeting in the middle of a stage and going Actually, I've done this to follow the coach narrative, versus the thing that I want to do 100% I've done

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that. And I did that in business after a while with my gyms. And I won't re re bore the audience with a storey. But I woke up one day, I had five different businesses and was living in a version of what people thought Craig hapas should do, which is nobody's fault except mine. But I was living the entrepreneurial right, let's open another gym, let's open another gym, let's get more stuff. Let's build a bigger brand. And nothing wrong with that if you're that person, but I'm not really an entrepreneur, I don't love that. What I love is this. What I love is teaching and co coaching, writing and talking and connecting and laughing my ass off and having fun. And having one or two people who work with me not 100 and the other thing and so they're not I was following the How do I make money model? How do I build a brand and business model? and and i think that i think the disconnect comes often in the fact that

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can I go a little bit deep? Yeah. So he exists and operate into worlds physical and non physical. So physical world, his brand, his businesses, money, his car, his house, his staff, his people, his conversations, his traffic lights, his plans, his you know, his his life, it's all the external, it's, it's this table, it's that chair, it's the lights, it's the temperature, it's all that, but where we live, where we live is in our emotions and thoughts, right? So ideas, thinking beliefs, expectation, faith, truth, values, alignment, all of that. And so I was very much living and and focusing on all things that external, how much How big can my muscles be? How many fucking cars can I have? How many gyms water people think of me? What is my brand? What's my profile? You know, what are people saying? What does this look like? And, and that was because I was an insecure fact who didn't deal with my stuff. And one of the challenges I think for men, for for people in general, but more for men. Because I think women are more emotionally evolved, in general, with this kind of conversation and recognition and awareness and stepping up is that I needed to get to a point where I went Alright, well, I'm good at at playing this role. And building this. I know, I can go and build another business and brand but it's not my thing. It's not my passion. I'm not bad at it, but I don't love it, you know? And so I needed to go well, when I step away from what people think I should do, or what is the standard of what is the norm. And I stopped conforming, and I start to you know, be still what what actually do I want me to look like and my life to look like in my situation and what matters like what are my values really like it Am I values money and brand is that my values, because that's what it looks like right now. If you followed me around in my 20s and early 30s, you'd go and I wasn't a bad human I was a decent dude. But like, you know, if if most of your thinking is around your business, then your focuses only on your business, your energy is only on your business and brand then you are on the on your business and brand, right, which means there's no spiritual development, there's no emotional development, there's no emotional maturity, there's no self awareness, there's no situational awareness, there's very little empathy. For others, they're very little patience and kindness, because you're just this Cyborg that's trying to do this thing. So for me, where I literally, one day when not I want to do this, and it's not bad or terrible. It's just not my thing. And so part of, you know, part of my message when I'm working with people is trying to help people understand that success is totally personal. You know, like some people to sit in a studio like now and do this podcast and talking to microphones would be terrifying, the operatives on the set of success. But for us who are all fucking curious dudes, and we're sitting and we like hanging out, we like, like, right now I'm having a good time. Why? Because I like you guys. And I like this. I like to have these provocative and philosophical and thought provoking conversations, because sometimes it opens a door for us. And other times it opens a door for the listener to go here. That's actually because, and shut me up in one second. But I believe that the vast majority majority of us and may for half my life, at least we live unconsciously, we inhabit this call negative emotional, social, logical behavioural operating system, which is really just a version of yesterday. We do to you know, it, what you did yesterday, was it like awesome, did it? Not really? Okay, but you're doing that again today? Right? Well, yeah. And I did it last week, last month, last year. So by the time you are 35 years old, 95% of who you are cognitively and emotionally and behaviorally is pretty much set. Right? And we have every day, give or take 70,000 thoughts? and have those 70,000 thoughts. 90% of them are the same thoughts we had yesterday, right? GSK and chose captured pretty much Well, that's 92% of my head, are you

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talking about the internal voice. And so if we just see it as an external voice, being the loud stuff that we're you know, the world's trying to pull us and the internal voice being maybe our own values, what we what we actually feel there is an awareness in or having a loud enough internal voice to recognise it, how to people who might not have the confidence to listen to it, if that internal voices is quiet, is there? Is there a system to be able to actually turn down the external voice? Or I guess the other risk is that you can confuse the external and the internal voice. So because the external voice is really loud, and it's like, look at this guy, look at all this stuff, all of a sudden you think are that is my internal voice, this is what I want? How do you identify when the external voice is actually tricking us into thinking it's our own thoughts.

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So most things that come from fear or insecurity or ego will be focused on physical stuff, things. Now, I'll come back to in a moment, but but and this all sound a bit deep. And, you know, we might all hug it out after this, but I believe that all the good internal stuff comes from a platform of love. You know, and, and that doesn't necessarily mean Huggy touchy feely but just love just service just generosity. I know. The, the more I The more I come from a place of love and service and, and, and of course, there's got to be, you know, parameters, I guess, like you can't just become a doormat. I'm still intelligent, and I still have awareness about who might use or abuse me. But the better person I am. So I think the challenges and it's not to say it almost sounds headlock, were anti business or money. Not at all. I get paid shit loads to do my corporate speaking. And all of those things. And I don't mean that sounds silly, but I do so to all high level speakers get paid way too much money. But if NAD want to pay me that hotel, stroll whoever cool. Okay, thanks. But again, for me, money is just a thing. It's a resource. And, and obviously, if someone says Craig will pay you x or three X, what's your choice back and give me three x thanks. I'm not a dummy. But I don't confuse money or things or brand or external kind of stuff with who I am. Right. So I think it's trying to manage your external world like you guys right now building a business building company, building an organisation brand credibility, and you want all of that, right. And that's all good and healthy. And then the next part of that is in the middle of all of the stuff that you are not, which is everything external to manage you so that you're a good dad, you're a good bloke, you're a good husband, you're a good son, you're a good human. Because when you live your values, there is way less anxiety and overthinking, there is way more calm. Or as the Buddhists call it equanimity, which is the common the chaos,

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you know, TJ, we're talking all about values the other day, and it's like, talking about values when you just started the business. I think that felt like a bit of a luxury, like it was like this is getting onto a bit of a wink fest awareness and, and let's make money, we'll figure out

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the fucking values like

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you, Josh, you're talking to a client this morning and said, We spent, we spent the first few days not looking at how we can make money for the business, but looking at what our values are for the business. And I thought that was great.

33:24
And what it what it actually and it's a luxury to have to have that. But what it means is, what the what having those values did was turned up our internal voice. Instead, I kept because, say, within a business, if it's all about lead generation, or you know, bringing in we're going to have you know, $40,000 a month of revenue, that's what we want to bring in, you can make $40,000 a lot of different ways. Yeah. And so it was trying to cycle if we do the values for us, if we know that we can make money 100 different ways, then we need some form of system of being able to say yes or no, because otherwise, it's just going to be yes. And it's like, are we we do wedding videos, because that's that's what people came to us and said, and so the it's the hard bit Is it is it is a luxury. And I feel for even though when I was younger, when the pressure really is on financially, and you're in a corner and you feel like the only the biggest problem is being able to make some money so you can do that thing. I think that's that's where it's also really challenging. It's real challenging at

34:37
your stage of development with your company. Because all you know, the 55 year old over here, got my heart Well, back in my day, you know, the philosophy of it all is it makes sense. But yeah, that's good hops. But I've got $7 in the bank if I quit, and I've got to feed my kids. Yeah, you know, so I get that. And it's it's, but I think the thing is, when you go What are our values what what we're back as two blogs, what are we about as a team? You know, the people that work with you, what are we about culturally and in terms of values as an organisation? Because people don't have a relationship with your company, they have a relationship with you because you're dealing with a guys attitudes, personalities, humans, right.

35:21
So a really practical example of this is

35:26
20 years ago, I I met a dude who saw me a car and he was at least sales he got ever he was just a funny bloke good dude. Like, I don't know if he did, but he seemed not to care if he sold me a car or not,

35:41
is a unicorn because they don't his unicorn

35:43
is a automotive unicorn. Right?

35:47
The Caribbean blue rainbow coloured

35:50
banners. He's nine right? I bought I bought a car from him. And he basically said to me get the best deal you can get and then ring me up any guys and if I can do better than that, we'll get it if not get it somewhere else. It's all good. Doesn't matter. Really, guys? Yeah. And and if I said I can get it there you go there. Like my Oh, alright. So I bought this car from him. Then I bought a car from a mom from him. Then I bought another car from him. By the way people listening Sorry, I'm an idiot with toys but I've brought purchased from this dude. Probably 12 cars from the one and God was the cheapest? Yep, yeah. And he's customers. I bought a This is hilarious. This is this is how laid back to this dude is I bought a I bought a Land Cruiser brand new Land Cruiser from him. And I ring him up. He was based an hour away from me. arena map I got my own. This is what I want. I want a Jake sale, blah, blah, blah, blah. And you guys are cool.

36:52
ago, and I didn't tell him any other

36:56
quotes that are being given. And I said what can you do on that? And you guys Hang on. You guys. Guys. Let me bring you back brings me back. Any guys. All right. I can do it for this. And you guys, I'll tell you right now there's 600 bucks in it for me. As in that's what he'll make on a 70 or $80,000 car or whatever. Right? And I believed him because it was about seven grand cheaper than everybody else. And I got a cool so what I wanted to do, he goes well, when do you want it? I go whenever he goes. All right. You guys, I'll bring you back tomorrow rings me tomorrow. And you guys it'll be there on and on. Whatever two days later. So they send the car on a truck a brand new 70 $80,000 car car member. They bring the car over. I signed some stuff are ringing and I go make the cars here. I haven't given you any money. I haven't paid a deposit. I've got my car. You guys are Yeah, now. That's all right. You guys. You're not going anywhere. I got all right. I'll go What do you want me to do? You guys? Look, madam with someone. I'll get back to you. I'm on All right. Thanks. Didn't hear from him. didn't ring me. Like two weeks. And he's not as bad I got Benny boy. This car is great. You guys are mine. I'm glad I'm glad I like looking after a guy. Anything else? Might you guys something wrong? Guy? Do you want any money? did not show you the worst salesman ever? Because he was so I wanted that. Because I felt like whether or not I felt like he gave a fuck. And he wasn't. So when someone goes, Oh, I just want to help you. I go No, you don't you want to sell a product? Yeah, so that's okay. You want to sell a product, but don't pretend you care about my welfare. But when you go to a company like with you guys who are emotionally intelligent, pretty aware, and you know, you, of course, we're going to charge you of course, we're going to make some money. That's what we do. But we're also good humans, and we want to build a relationship with you. And we want you to be happy and we want you to love what you get. Then you were in the 5%. And we're not 5% do not do that for real.

39:02
And so is there a risk in doing what Ben's doing? And just being a bad business person? How do you how do you balance this? Well, because it's playing a different game and saying like, I am going to be giving you a great price, great service. And then it becomes a volume game. Because more rather than trying to squeeze every dollar out of every sale at saying I'm going to be so good that everyone's going to come to me. And rather than doing three car, I don't know how many cars people sell. But rather than doing three cars a day, he's doing 20. But see, a big part of it is like, for me when I say to people, if all you ever do is read my whiteboard messages and follow me and get some inspiration and like I get emails every day from people who go, thank you so much like you helped me change my life. Now I don't take any credit because they did the work. But every day multiple, like sometimes 10 a month die from people who are never made. They've never bought a book that but I just follow my stuff and use my stuff.

40:07
And because I never sell anything, the worst I'll do is once every 30 or 40 or 50 posts, I might go got a workshop coming up. If you want to come cool. If you don't go to or good. I hide selling shit. But I know that I've got enough momentum and enough people who kind of resonate with me that there'll be people there. Yeah. And I'd rather have 300 people there that really want to be there then 1000 people that have smashed over their head and twisted their arm. You know, I don't need it that

40:38
much. The the company that doesn't have written out values that they live by, has a set of values based on their actions. Yes. So it's like as a company I worked with once with like, their payment terms were 14 days from the day they get paid from the person that paid them, which for me is someone that I came to them they're a middle man, you I see that as a reflection on their business. Yeah. Which doesn't they're not they're not looking after me. They're looking after them just in case the client doesn't pay that. So what happens to me if I don't get paid? Yeah, of course. And so there's this, I feel like that speaks volumes of a value that they haven't even identified. Or maybe they don't want to be the person that is it comes across i think

41:21
i don't think like you don't have that awareness. So I, irrespective of the product, I'm more inclined to just go with the people or the organisation that I like. Because you think about this, and I'm in Seth talks about this. People buy largely on emotion. I mean, we buy shit we don't actually need all the time. Like if we're talking about needs based decision making 80% of the stuff I buy, I don't need, I don't need to live or survive. I just bought it because I have some money. And fuckin that's a pretty colour.

41:57
Yes. Oh, whatever it is. And so you know, that we over write ourselves in terms of we're not that intellectual or discerning when we buy, we're more emotional. We're more in the moment. And we're that's why we're so easily manipulated, at times we do dumb shit. And the thing that the values do is it actually, it calls out that shit all the time, like, even just the time that the way that Tommy and I came up with the values is we we thought about all the arguments that we've had any disagreements and then we'll test it against the values and like, at the end of this, could we come up with a solution? Would we feel better about it through these, you know, value filters. So it's like, the small things matter one of our values, we can pull all these things. So if we don't get back to a client, if, if one of us drops the ball and doesn't get back to a client or doesn't follow up, we can then look at the vault rather than if I did that Tommy blowing up and being like, Matt, you don't give a fuck about any of this. And all he has to say is small things matter. And it's something that we've both agreed upon. And then I can then realise that something that Tommy cares about. And I can see how that is associated with this value. I hadn't maybe connected it. And so then we're slowly through this process of trial and error through the filter of values. Celebrate others is one of our values. So when we start to fall into the habit of being insecure creatives and being like, fucking add, say that bit of what it's reframing it in being like, actually, we're doing the thing that we know inevitably happens when people do great work. And what if we were to reframe that, we're not only reframing how we see the world, but maybe we give ourselves a break, too. So when we are feeling insecure about our work, we can be like, cause give that celebration to us. Perfect.

43:53
And another thing is, wow, they did a great job, what can I learn? Yeah, what can I learn better question. And also, the moment that you start to focus on things that are external to you and out of your control, and then worse, obsess about that, focus on that, put your energy in that, then you're not putting your energy in your own stuff. You know, and I think the challenge for you guys, as he is for any business partnership is to, like, this would be my advice as you start this journey together for what it's worth. And I've had numerous business partners, they say what the

44:25
fastest ship to sink is a partnership. Yeah,

44:28
you genuinely and this sounds like people will be well, no shit, Craig. But trust me, people don't do this, you need to genuinely want each other to succeed each other, you need to genuinely and go, we're going to have days where I think you're a fantastic, that's cool. Yeah, let's sort it out. And because you will 100% annoy each other cuz you're human. And you're 100% get frustrated with each other. But you need to talk about it and come back to her base. And you can't you know, there's no selfish person that's happy. And in business, you made a lot of business partners who are, of course, Tommy's priority will always be time Tommy and your priority, Josh will always be you. But that's not a bad thing. But that doesn't mean that there's not a lot of space for caring about each other and wanting each other to do well. Now his priority being him is not selfish. That's just how we're wired. And his priority is him and his family, yours is yours and your family. And that's, you know, but that, again, that's not to the exclusion of loving each other, caring for each other, wanting each other to learn and grow and evolve and succeed. And you know, that I have, I've coached people who in some areas of their development have surpassed me, so fucking proud of them. Like they're doing shit I've never done I'm like, ah, like tokenize Seth Godin

45:54
hashtag.

45:57
Now, I think it makes so much sense. And that's what we're currently I think about is shining the spotlight every single time we've gone from a selfish stage of like, Am I getting enough time of talking here or that like, it is destructive. And as soon as we put the spotlight on each other, he all of a sudden it, it shines back in a much nicer it's a much nicer light coming back than trying to fucking put a torch on to yourself. Yeah,

46:26
and people say it. But yeah, when you're trying to pump yourself stinky. The funny thing is, the irony of coming from a place of ego is that you create the opposite result to what you want, which is you want people to be impressed. They're actually less impressed and you should have said nothing they would have been more impressed. Yeah,

46:44
the daily talk show Craig hapa you have your own podcast the project and I listened to not good with names that that that basketball that real fast and state yeah real fucking Wow.

47:00
of a sports guru.

47:03
I think Chris that was a great episode. I was on the plane listening to that and just hearing because he went to the US that whole NBA and so have a listen. If you don't just listen for Craig's wisdom, the people that you actually get on to and the conversations you're having a super unique so it's definitely worth listening to that.

47:25
I was annoyed because I wanted to keep going.

47:27
It's 47 minutes and we've put up time restrictions on it and you'll be back. Exactly. hungry.

47:33
sideboard.

47:34
friend of the show, Craig hapa hybrid le talk show.com if you want to send us an email, we say tomorrow guys, you guys