Kisschasey & Consent

Tommy: Wait a minute! Crossface!

Josh: The Daily Talk Show, a conversation sometimes worth recording with Josh Janson and Tommy Jackett. It's a daily talk show. Happy Monday! I tried to be different. Episode 205.

Tommy: It's good, I like it. Vibe with it. Monday one, the Monday fun one.

Josh: Yeah, I feel like I've been a hermit today. Well, we have been.

Tommy: We've been— I was going to say, I was going to say balls deep. Sexual references just for sexual, uh, what do you call it, um, innuendo.

Josh: I don't know if balls deep is an innuendo. I think it's straight up. It's a bit sex bestie.

Tommy: Yeah, it is, but like not one of our values of big media company.

Josh: No, less balls deep, more celebrating others.

Tommy: Well, no, we've just come out of editing something all day, so that's why we feel like we're shifting gears.

Josh: If our balls smell, it's because of Will Ball's dick. Oh, you—

Tommy: wow, this has gone too far.

Josh: I know, this is a reset.

Tommy: Should we reset?

Josh: Good reset. And it's the Daily Talk Show, everyone. Are we actually doing a reset? No. Okay, it was okay what we said.

Tommy: I think now we're going— I brought up the balls dip, it's all my fault.

Josh: But then I took it too far.

Tommy: You definitely did.

Josh: And this was the thing that we— I was speaking to a friend I mentioned yesterday about the best example of the type of personality that I have is when I was in grade 6, I did this piece of artwork, like a painting. Yeah. And I got all these compliments from the art teacher and it was like a really big deal. I'm smiling because I just think about what I said before. Anyway, I— So, I did this work and they were putting it up to dry. And she was praising me. And I decided to go back and add to the painting because I was like, if I just add a bit more, it's gonna be even better and she's gonna be more blown away.

Tommy: That was your mindset?

Josh: That was your thinking? Just like the joke. And just like the joke, when I added the extra paint, the whole piece of paper tore and she was, I was mortified and she was mortified. And so, it's very similar to that joke. You made a joke, you were at the, the, the, uh, your balls deep in the joke. Yeah. And then I pushed it a bit further.

Tommy: And yeah, you really broke through onto the other side.

Josh: Yeah. So if you're still here, well, welcome to the show, The Daily Talk Show.

Tommy: No, I think we got in a bit of ping pong as well, going one for one, and we're going further down the hole. Anyway, um, so yesterday I took Bodhi and I sent you a photo of this park where I was taking him because for the last— since he was born, I've had a fascination with playgrounds.

Josh: What's with this?

Tommy: So when—

Josh: because you were asking about donuts, you said, hey, going to Southeast, I need doughnut recommendations.

Tommy: Or you're my go-to ex-fat man.

Josh: Yeah, ex-fat man who knows where most of the doughnut places are potentially.

Tommy: And so that was the first— that was the initial mission, yeah, was to find some junk food.

Josh: But then you sent through a picture of a playground saying, this is where I'm taking Bodhi.

Tommy: Yeah, and the whole thing is playgrounds these days are like— they spend millions of dollars on them.

Josh: Do they really?

Tommy: Yeah, man, skate parks and playgrounds, they're dropping so much coin on these things.

Josh: 'Cause when we were in Queensland, I was reminded by the text that you sent of the photo of the playground when it was just you and I without Bodhi. You got us to walk to a playground 'cause you wanted to film there.

Tommy: Yeah, I can't even remember that. Which one was that?

Josh: I don't know, there was a lot of like—

Tommy: No, you said Queensland?

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: Brisbane, yes, it's part of— that's the city. Totally, I wasn't thinking straight. Brisbane, yes, when we were there. I spotted, and that was, that an epic playground.

Josh: I mean, yeah, if you're a kid.

Tommy: No, but I think these translate to adults. Like, I mean, probably it's not the best idea if you're just an adult to go and rock it and play in the kids' playground. But that one in, that one in Brisbane, just outside the CBD, is so big. It's like, I love a bit of parkour as well, running up walls, and that, that's what—

Josh: What's the difference between being an adult who likes playgrounds and parkour? Have they just rebranded being on playgrounds. Like, we'll call it parkour, but essentially it's just so you can go on a jungle— a jungle gym. That's very American, isn't it?

Tommy: Yeah, that is. But no, that's a good point. So it is, it's, it's like you're a big kid if you love parkour. There's something about it. Like, I used to do gymnastics. Reece Mitchell, who we've had on The Playground, he was well into parkour. We used to run around.

Josh: You said what? Reece Mitchell, who we had on The Playground.

Tommy: Oh, did I?

Josh: Which I like. Podcast? No, but let's call it Welcome to the Playground. Maybe that could be the new The new title of the show. So yeah, on Sunday you messaged and said you're going. What happened?

Tommy: So it was this unbelievable, um, slide, these two slides that were like 8 meters, probably at least 8 metres up into the sky, and it's all enclosed so you can't fall off the side. But you go up this big little spiral staircase like really high up and it sways a bit. So I took Bodhi, who's only 19 20 months old, up to the very top of this. And even he, like, he's keen as mustard for slides, but this one, he was a bit, a bit off. He's just like, it was just, just a bit dumbfounded by looking down at mum. So you don't know what's going on. Like, the kid has no idea about much. Like, you know, he sees spiders and he thinks they're amazing.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: So he doesn't quite know that heights could kill him.

Josh: Kids are just like dumb mates, but he's embracing it.

Tommy: So I ended up taking him down this slide, but the way I found it was, um, this woman on Instagram who started following me has this page and it's called Mama Knows East, and it's like the east side. Yeah, it's all about like events in the east side. So we took Bodhi out there and took him down the slide, but that wasn't the best bit. Like, it was almost— you need— I see the big kid in me wanted to get like a potato sack to really get speed down it, but The thing is, I can't even let Bodhi on it by himself because it's so big that he could get stuck halfway, and then I'd have to—

Josh: yeah, I don't know, SES involved.

Tommy: Yeah, it's way too big. Anyway, this kid— we— so we were down the bottom of the slide, and this kid came with his mom and dad, and he was all over the joint like he was a little maniac.

Josh: How old?

Tommy: Uh, he would have been no older than 8. Uh, boisterous young boy.

Josh: Similar to probably what you were like as a kid.

Tommy: Yes, very similar. And what he did is probably definitely something I would have done. So at the top of this 8-meter slide contraption masterpiece, there's like— did you ever play in playgrounds? No, no, no, I was in the house. I was just getting a vibe.

Josh: I was literally playing with my microphones. That's not even a joke. That is so funny. I had so many microphones from Big W and they cost about $20 each. And the annoying thing is the cables would always fuck on them because they weren't sort of professional quality. So every few weeks Mum would have to buy new ones because I'd be pulling, I would try and move away from the speaker. Anyway, so no, I have no idea what you're talking about.

Tommy: I can imagine this is a function of the playground that they had back in the day when I was a kid, but never, not to the extent of this. So up in this 8-meter-high contraption, there's this, there's this—

Josh: I know what you're gonna say.

Tommy: It looks like a pipe and it's got like a little mouthpiece.

Josh: The only thing that I liked about playgrounds was their analogue walkie-talkie system.

Tommy: A communication device.

Josh: I'd be like, "Mum, you wait there." Like annoying the fuck out of Mum.

Tommy: So it's basically a pipe that goes down, so it goes from the top of this playground down into the ground and then comes out, and you actually don't know where the other end is. Like if you just rocked up, I wouldn't have known that this mouthpiece connected to this one down there. So this little kid, the 7-year-old, 8-year-old said to his mum, "Mum, you stay here, I'm going to go up the top." And she sat down, we're like probably as far as we are away from each other.

Josh: We're 40 metres away, right?

Tommy: Couple of metres away. And so he's run up the top of this playground to where this analogue communication device is, i.e., pipe to talk to his mum. And so you hear, "Mum, can you hear me?" "Yeah." And so I couldn't, I just tuned out of the conversation. And then all I see is the mum just, "Oh, you're disgusting!" He'd got his ass up on the thing.

Josh: He farted.

Tommy: Farted onto— farted into this device. And he's like, "You're feral!" Wait, so it would actually—

Josh: wait, was he— how far? So he was close or not that close?

Tommy: No, no, he was probably 10 metres away. But this pipe goes down, so the sound travels. So he's just dropped his guts into it, and his mum's had her ear right up to the thing.

Josh: That's very funny.

Tommy: She blew up. He was a little baby.

Josh: I wonder if she blew up in a real way or blew up in like, that's pretty funny.

Tommy: Nah, see, this is the thing. Amy and I were talking about what we would have done in that scenario. I would have lost my shit.

Josh: Funny, hilarious.

Tommy: Whereas Amy, she even thought, that's pretty funny, and she laughed, said it's a great one for the podcast. But she said, I would have been the same. I would have had— like, when you're a parent, you need the juxtaposition. You can't just have two parents laughing their asses off because it probably doesn't teach the kid anything other than farts are funny. And farts are universally funny. But I just, I couldn't imagine, I couldn't imagine, like Amy thought, oh, she wouldn't have done that, like as a young girl. It's just something, I mean, I was well into farts.

Josh: Yeah, absolutely. I would have shit my pants if I tried that sort of action when I was a kid. 100%.

Tommy: That was a horrible vision. And I went up to the top of the side and I saw him there and I'm annoyed that I didn't say something.

Josh: Just say, good one, champ.

Tommy: Well played. Well played. I didn't say it, but then yeah, so that's what I've got. I think that's what I've got to look forward to in some ways for Bodhi.

Josh: Do you remember the, um, the old school playgrounds when they were made out of wood?

Tommy: Yeah, um, Hampton, Hampton Adventure Playground was one of the most epic ones in my surrounding suburbs. Crazy.

Josh: It was—

Tommy: I, I had one of those It was a reverse burp.

Josh: Okay, you don't burp out, it like— Yeah, and then, well, you were making fun of me the other day because I was saying when I wear noise-canceling headphones, I don't know if my stomach's grumbling, I'm full-blown farting.

Tommy: No, but I said there's a difference, there's a, there's a feeling. And my, and my troll to you was, my bum's so loose.

Josh: Yeah, which is good troll. It's funny though. Yeah, it is pretty funny.

Tommy: It's funny that you wouldn't even know So this, the playground, what sort of—

Josh: do you remember the facilities at the Hampton?

Tommy: Yeah, it was, it was like ginormous. It was— I think there's always, as a kid, you know, there's like one, you know what's better than— you know the good ones, you know the good ones, and this was one of the really good ones. But I think kids, and I was a part of it, we dug underneath the wooden structures So, there was all these like underground pathways.

Josh: Of course, you created an underground system.

Tommy: Yeah, they didn't want it, like I'm sure this is not what they want. And so, you can't really do much of this kind of behaviour with new ones. It's like they've just upped their game. Councils.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: It's, uh—

Josh: They've got to be safer. They've got to like the regulation, I could imagine being pretty full-on. Yeah.

Tommy: Well, we went to the— there's one in Sydney and when we were up there, There's an adventure playground in Darling Harbour. Seriously, I don't know how a child hasn't died because you can climb up this like pyramid rope structure.

Josh: Oh, did we want to? Yes, yes, yes. That one's really high. Super high. I went on a similar one in Auckland. Yeah, they're insane.

Tommy: And you were probably strapped in.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: It was an adventure.

Josh: I was tethered. No, but the playgrounds, I remember at my primary school we had the wooden ones, but someone like an arsonist, like a fucking like primary school arsonist, like some kid probably lit the whole thing on fire.

Tommy: The one at my primary school across the road from my house burnt down.

Josh: Maybe that's why they stopped making them out of wood because it's a—

Tommy: You could still burn the— Oh yeah, I guess the plastic ones.

Josh: Well, do they melt? No, we had melted plastic as well. Yeah, went to a low socioeconomic school, so people are just like, oh, we've got something good, we might as well burn it.

Tommy: I remember the day the one across the road from our house burnt down, and it was a couple of kids from the commission flats across the road. They're always seen as troublemakers, some of the kids from there. That's what—

Josh: like, you're allowed to say that? Or you're friends with all of them?

Tommy: Oh, there's mates with them, but they— some of them were real troublemakers. Yeah, and they burnt the playground down. So I don't know if you can't say it. Like, I get it, like there's some sensitivities around because they're from, you know, disadvantaged families. Yeah, but there was also some troublemakers among some really great kids. Kogan. Yeah, Kogan, who's richer than everyone now. Yeah, uh, and some other great kids. Jack Goldberg. A bunch of my friends are from there.

Josh: Who's Jack Goldberg?

Tommy: Jack Goldberg, he was in the Navy. Um, I bumped into him at Brisbane Airport one night.

Josh: Talking playgrounds or something?

Tommy: No, no, he was just doing business.

Josh: Brisbane, that's in Queensland.

Tommy: Um, is that a troll to me?

Josh: That was a troll to you. Um, yeah, it's a, uh, do you remember any specific storeys as a kid that revolved around playgrounds? Like, I see, see that as almost like a bit of a, um, a setting for shit to go down in school.

Tommy: I rode— I, um, skateboarded— no, I rollerbladed down a slide, broke my arm. So that was my one.

Josh: That was a— that's a pretty good— I, I think that it was at the playground that I kissed a girl named Catherine, my first ever kiss. And the reason that I kissed her was because her mum worked at Mars, the chocolate.

Tommy: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Josh: And I'd never—

Tommy: you thought This is a great inn.

Josh: No, well, so she actually offered, she said, I'll give you some of my Mars bar and you kiss me. And so I was in prep and I remember I kissed her for a bit of nougat. Nougat, nougat.

Tommy: There, so—

Josh: Nougat or nougat?

Tommy: Tommy Little, comedian.

Josh: Nougat or nougat?

Tommy: Nougat.

Josh: Nougat, thank you.

Tommy: Is that what it is?

Josh: I don't know.

Tommy: I'm saying nougat. Anyway, Tommy Little, comedian, Melbourne comedian. He had this— I went to his stand-up comedy show years ago and he had this bit about— he called it, um, a bits showing, where kids are always like— I, and I remember it just— I laughed so hard because I just remember being like a child, yeah, um, talking like showing my penis to someone else. It was like— no, but it was reciprocal. I wasn't sure this was a pest in the playground. No, but it was like, oh, if you show me mine, yours, I'll show you mine. And kids, this is what kids are fucking doing.

Josh: Yeah. And I remember specifically being absolutely traumatised because there was, uh, down at Chester Court, at the bottom of the court where I lived, there were two girls and they said, you should, you know, you show us yours and we'll show you ours. Yeah. And then so my brother and I showed ours.

Tommy: Which one? Which brother?

Josh: Jake. Jake?

Tommy: And um, it was fat, um, yeah, Jake and the Fat Man. Jake and the Fat Man.

Josh: And having your bits showing. And then they didn't show theirs and then went up and told our parents. So like, um, I feel like it was a good lesson though. That, that bit of a— oh, I got like—

Tommy: too good to be true? No.

Josh: Extortion? Yeah, I got me too. I was quite like, what? Or I don't think— I'd like to say that I didn't Me Too. I was wrapped up in a Me Too scandal and I didn't even— I feel like maybe it made me realise that even not to show your dick— I don't know what the learning is there, to be honest. What do you think the learning is?

Tommy: Well, I don't think— I think it's just— see, this is the weird thing. I've lost a lot of these memories of being a child. Like I had one, yeah, but I had— I even had one like that went back just then to prep being in this little cubby house thing and doing it. It's this— I think there's such an innocence to it. But so what was the outcome? Because I don't—

Josh: I've no— I don't remember.

Tommy: So you just remember being told on?

Josh: I do. No, I just remember the panic. I remember the walk. I remember the walk from the bottom of the court to the top when they said, we're gonna tell, uh, your, uh, your mum. And, you know, they were the same age as us. And so there was the, the walk of like trying to be ahead of them, like walking faster and thinking and just being like, how can— what can I say that's not going to make me sound guilty?

Tommy: Yeah, this is— there's a power struggle going on there. Like, they, they've found something. They're leveraging. Yeah, they've found something to— yeah, they've found something that assumes power for them quite quickly.

Josh: It's good on them.

Tommy: It's full-on, it's manipulation. Yeah, we don't even know what they wanted out.

Josh: But the thing is, like, wait, like, I would— like, I just wanted to see a vagina. What are you seeing?

Tommy: Not much.

Josh: Yeah, but you still—

Tommy: you're like It's the unknown. That's what I think it is. Far out.

Josh: Still is the unknown.

Tommy: This, this podcast, if we've still got it going in 10 years, I wonder the storeys that Bodhi— that of what Bodhi's gonna do. Like, I hope they're not as bad.

Josh: So I wonder how this all, you know, the, the change in society and what's acceptable, how that will change how kids are actually interacting.

Tommy: You'd have to think that there'll be some sensibilities that are increased.

Josh: The sleepovers— did you get up to mischief at like sleepovers or anything?

Tommy: Yeah, but I mean, in the early days I wasn't having sleepovers at girls' places. Yeah, they're just either a party where everyone's in the room, like, you know, all, all genders are in the room and there's probably parents there.

Josh: But my childhood is, if I was to sum it up, it's me being in a circle of spin the bottle and 3 girls arguing about why they don't want to kiss me even though it's landed on me. And the annoying thing is, it was like, as being the chubby kid, I actually took up— well, it was good for me, I took up more circle.

Tommy: But, um, do you think that's affected you thinking like—

Josh: yeah, maybe, I don't know. But I definitely remember, uh, My fr— A girl who was my girlfriend for a short time, Shruti.

Tommy: Shruti?

Josh: Shruti, can you not—

Tommy: No, but there's a daycare worker called Shruti.

Josh: Shruti, yeah. What's her last name? I don't have to say her last name.

Tommy: Imagine if it was the same.

Josh: Bodhi says, "Shruti." Do you know her last name?

Tommy: No, I don't.

Josh: Okay, well, so my Shruti, I went to— Her dad was the head chef at the curry club. Which, cool, cool fact. But anyway, I remember the curry club, uh, it was, it was on Bridge Road, I think. I think it's closed down now, but it was an Indian restaurant.

Tommy: Yeah. And, um, I, I thought it could have been an outer suburb, like, um, like a Sizzler-esque, like, but just no curry house.

Josh: I'd love that. No, but I, um, I remember Shruti and I ended, like, we dated when I was in like grade 6. Yeah. And dating then is really nothing. Like, we're part of the same sticker club. I was the only dude in the sticker club. She was my girlfriend for a short period of time. But I remember in year 8, for whatever reason, I think she was meant to kiss me and that didn't happen. But then she kissed my friend Lachlan, um, because there was like that room, like you would It was one of those things where it was like you spin the bottle, if you land on it twice, then it goes out to a make-out session.

Tommy: Geez.

Josh: And I think I remember, um, it was either like next to some wheelie bins or some shit. That's where they went to, to make out.

Tommy: I wonder, so spin the bottle and all those kind of silly games were around when we were kids. I wonder what the evolution of those games is now.

Josh: Well, parents aren't going to let like Because were your parents—

Tommy: Kiss Chasey, that was like, yeah, you kind of go fucking pinning people down. You're chasing after a girl as they're screaming, trying to kiss on her that she doesn't want.

Josh: Oh, it's not ideal. And I remember as a kid specifically, because it's a big deal being a chubby kid, running for anything. But I played Kiss Chasey. But I remember this. Do you remember playing Kiss Chasey? What my strategy— I remember there was a, um, Rachel who I thought was quite pretty and just fucking like, because you would be playing with a few people. I just remember it's almost like a little bit, um, uh, it's not sadistic, that's not the right word, but I just remember being like, I'm, I'm like, my, I was focused on Rachel and just like doubling.

Tommy: You've been hard on Rachel.

Josh: Yeah, I never, no, no, never.

Tommy: Couldn't catch her.

Josh: Nah. But it's, it is a weird thing. But do you think, because I, I guess that parents would have a, um, you'd have different levels of parents. So there was the parents who would allow their kids to have alcohol when they were 16. I never asked my parents.

Tommy: You didn't?

Josh: No.

Tommy: Okay, well, you didn't drink, so yeah, I think, I think there was a— like, I remember getting drunk at my brother's 18th or 21st, and I was quite young then, but God, I would like— if Mum, if Mum wasn't going to buy it for us, we were getting fake IDs. James and I, Conspiracy Theory Jimmy, yeah, we had fake IDs that said we're 21 when we were 16, and they worked. This was back when IDs were not what they are today, yeah, but we had holograms. We ordered them in from, um, England from some website. We sent off a money, a check, money order, check, $35, and we got these things back. And they worked.

Josh: And so if it wasn't for parents, like, yeah, but what do you say to— is Kiss Chasey just not on the menu in schools anymore? So like, what, what's the conversation you're going to have with Bodhi? Yeah, about, um, Kiss Chasey.

Tommy: Um, see, this is the thing, if it's banned in schools and you can't be doing it, I don't think you should be going against it. Because it's just a fucking headache. But I don't think that you can extrapolate from a kid who plays Kiss Chasey is a sex pest later in life.

Josh: But is it setting the wrong tone?

Tommy: No, because I think kids are having fun.

Josh: But isn't that like the whole problem? That's just like, oh, we're just— oh yeah, we just— we're just having fun.

Tommy: But I don't— I think if you don't get it from other things, like I feel like I'm a good person and I played Kiss Chasey.

Josh: So I don't think it's a ref— I don't think it's a reflection on you and what— like, because it was a different time. Yeah, like, I don't necessarily— like, there's things that we used to just say, you know, things were gay or stuff like that all the time. We— and now we have learned.

Tommy: And if you— and if you watch Joe Rogan's new special, yeah, he says still calls him gay.

Josh: And so But things change, but I don't think that's a reason to then push back and say, yeah, like, we—

Tommy: so yeah, so that's what I'm saying. If the rule is no kiss chasey, the rule is whatever it be, I think I would never encourage pushback on what the new rule is. Yeah, so you're then slipping into a new area where it's—

Josh: but what's the understanding? Because I think that there's— is there a risk in not having a hard line on it? So if Bodhi asks like, Dad, what's the deal with kiss chasey? How do you answer it so that you're making it clear, like, what is okay and what's not okay?

Tommy: Yeah, but yeah, I— what the rule is set out to be maybe can be the default of what your answer can be. But I don't honestly don't think it's that pesty when you're grade 4, grade 5 children running around, and it's all like fair. Like, you know, like you think about your time, what makes it fair? What makes it fair is a group of people going, let's play kiss chase, and everyone going, let's do it. Not you're a kid who has got a bunch of his boys around and said, let's go run after these girls and kiss them. If that's the mindset, there's a problem. But if you're a bunch—

Josh: so it's a conversation on consent is what you're saying? Yeah, what you're saying is it's like— and which takes a lot of the fun out of like, oh, I kiss chase, it sounds light, but then Consent sounds quite, I mean, we go full on.

Tommy: At what point, yeah, like if you push, like there is conversations around the whole consent.

Josh: Well, consent's weird and like using an example that isn't Kiss Chasey, when I was a kid I remember I used to borrow, uh, there was these twins, uh, Christina and Katie, and I was in their class in grade 3.

Tommy: A lot of twins at your school.

Josh: There were a few. Which were the twins? Did I mention other twins?

Tommy: Twins down the bottom of the —no, they were just sisters.

Josh: But, um, no, there was— I would always, um, I was really— I was friendly with everyone, but I remember Christina and Katie, they, um— I was really bad. Mum would always buy me pens and stuff, but I was just very loose at borrowing them and losing them. And so I'd always start off with really nice stationery, but I would lose them. Christina and Katie were very good with keeping all their pens and pencils in order. And so I remember asking, hey, can I borrow a pen? And they were always so lovely. And I remember one day I saw, um, the mum come in and speak to the teacher, and basically apparently it was an issue that I'd been borrowing the pens. And I didn't know, I thought that this is this thing, like, I thought I had consent to use the pen. So is there a risk in that power imbalance of just being like You know, not— Yes, people need to assert themselves and say, no, I don't want to play this game. But when you're 8 or 8 years old and you're a kid and you're getting pressured by a few boys to do it, then you're like, ah, yeah, even though I'm not that comfortable, I don't really want to do it, I'll do it anyway. So, should we make the default no or not putting that sort of pressure?

Tommy: I think the default will be to ban things. That have a very blurred line. But then so does dating. When you're going out with a girl, a guy, and you haven't kissed yet, and one of you needs to make the move, and one of you's a bit shy and a bit timid but really likes the guy, or you don't know, really doesn't like the guy, but because they're shy comes across as like this, just a bit reserved, and then the person— you lean in for a kiss and then they say, oh, what the fuck? Yeah, they go for it. It's like, at what point do you need consent in, in that context? Because it becomes— it's a conversation. If we get a look at it, it's so not clear at all. There is very clear-cut things that, you know, I think are common sense, or, um, you know, when it gets down to, you know, certain things within, you know, interacting with somebody else. I think there's a general rule, but what you're saying is at what point do you need to actually have the conversation?

Josh: Well, I just saw this ad, I can't even remember, it was at like Village Cinemas on the, like last week watching a movie, and it was some dad who said something about, uh, like they're in a car or whatever and the dad says something that's sort of just like a bit off the cuff, like it's no big deal. And then the daughter repeats it, and when the daughter repeats it, it sort of clicks in his head that what he said isn't okay. Like, oh, they're just mucking around though, so that's okay if they hit me, or yeah, something along those lines. And then it got me thinking about, well, if these kids are little sponges, then you can't play the blurred line of like, well, Bodhi, it's not like— is it, you know, they're— although they're banning it, there's— it's like a little bit like You can't put doubt into that consent conversation, young.

Tommy: I think, but that's what I mean, if it be— and I don't know what the deal is. I'm sure it's interesting, right?

Josh: You don't want Bodhi to be a sex pest at school. You don't want to be the— you want to be pulled in because it's like 100%.

Tommy: And that's what I'm saying, the time that I was a kid, it didn't have— it wasn't a talking topic like it is now. So if the talking topic nowadays is you can't do that because it's seen as this, then that is the framework that we're dealing within. Therefore, I'm not going to push back on something that has now been discussed and, and there's parameters around things. So then it's like, I think you then need to enforce— it's like any law, any new law, you can't just be resorting to the old law because the new law is X.

Josh: Well, it's pro— and it's progress as well, right? You don't really want to, uh slow down the progress. But do you—

Tommy: I mean, there is a slippery slope with it all because when you, like, the, the dating, um, conversation, it's like, at what point, like, do you know how much of a, uh, buzzkill— can I have a, uh, do you have a kiss? Do you have consent? Can I have a kiss? Do I have your consent to plant a kiss on your lips? Like, it—

Josh: how— fuck, it's pretty cute as well though, like, saying it like that.

Tommy: I know, as I said, I was like, that's actually That's a good line.

Josh: Yeah, but do you not see? I guess I get that.

Tommy: It will be a struggle. It will be a struggle.

Josh: It takes out the passion, the passion maybe, but I think that I'd probably want to default to that anyway. Yeah. Um, but what it maybe requires is using a lot more words potentially, like having that conversation rather than it just being a which just changes the dynamic. It doesn't mean it's less romantic, it just changes it to be something. But I think it is less—

Tommy: it's pulling you out of the moment. Because if we— you think about some movie in some utopia where there's so many more rules. I mean, utopia probably doesn't make sense. Utopia is like a better place than this. But if you think in the future, in these worlds where there's so many rules and everything's so strict and everyone's following this like real dictatorship or like set of rigid rules, it does become that. I don't know, but maybe you're saying— are you saying that it then becomes a part just of what you need to do, so then you work it in in some way and you get creative?

Josh: Maybe it's like you've got a little business card, you flip it up, or maybe like how there's gender reveals. Maybe I'll do like a 'I want to kiss you' reveal, which sounds, uh, not ideal. That—

Tommy: I mean, I'm old school, but there was some fucked up shit that went on in the old school days. Yeah, but I don't think for that kind of stuff, I think it will ruin, ruin so many moments.

Josh: All right, Kavanaugh, settled. It's a daily talk show, everyone. Why don't you educate us? Hi@thedailytalkshow.com if your kids are school— at school. Yeah, but also, um, if you've— if they've— if we're We've got a lot of blind spots. We have no idea about a lot of this stuff. Yeah. And I don't even know the answer. I'm on my smug high horse because I don't have a kid. I have to worry about it. Yeah. But yeah, it's the reason I mention it is because I don't think it's an easy one. It's not easy.

Tommy: And whatever decision is made that could eventually bring us progression in this will be difficult for everybody. Yeah. And so I don't think it's a reason to say let's not come up with any new solution for this.

Josh: Should kid, uh, kiss chasey still be a thing? Is there a place for kiss chasey? 131060. It's a radio show. It's a radio gag, guys. I had 131060.com for a while. I had this idea of when I was at the radio station that people could go to that website and submit phoners. Yeah. Dumb idea. All right, Today The Talk Show, everyone. Have a good rest of your Monday. It's quite late here, so if you're listening now, good on you.

Tommy: Otherwise, you could be in 2052 listening to this show and kiss Jaycee is the most illegal thing to do.

Josh: It's like, can you believe it's the equivalent of being like, yeah, but blackface, yeah, it was fun, you know. How are you meant to do it? Today The Talk Show, have a good one.