Digital content producer advice

Tommy: Wait a minute! Crossface, the Daily Talk Show, a conversation sometimes worth recording with Josh Janson and Tommy Jackett.

Josh: It's the Daily Talk Show, episode 171. Tommy Jackett, how are you this morning?

Tommy: Yeah, good. How are you this evening?

Josh: I'm really good. I am above where we're staying. In Dubrovnik is above an Irish pub. And so, this is the second night in a row that we're about to go to sleep to Wonderwall by a live performer.

Tommy: There's only so many old songs because there's no new old songs. So, they're just getting a real run for it. I love watching people sing other people's songs, like at pubs and stuff. I was at— over the weekend in Echuca, we were watching this guy, just, he was so talented. And I just started thinking, looking at him, just thinking, you know, and I just started going into what he's— what his life has been like, just like doing the story. Yeah, I was doing the storey because, you know, he doesn't look like a rock star, so you start making judgments based on his looks. Not bad. I was like, this guy's super talented, but what doesn't he have? Why hasn't he made it.

Josh: You're putting the Australian Idol producer hat on and thinking like, what's his story?

Tommy: Yeah, I was, you know, I was dicko. I was like, you know, what's happening? Okay. But then I started looking at the equipment he had and thinking about how much money he's earning. And then Amy said, we came up with a figure of $400 he'd be earning for the afternoon of singing. And I thought, that's not bad. Almost $100 an hour.

Josh: It sounds about right.

Tommy: Do that once a weekend, little, you know, buns and burner on the side. Not bad.

Josh: But yeah, I mean, I actually, I said to a mate the other day when we were driving along on a road trip, I said, I reckon most, I prefer most covers than originals.

Tommy: What's your favourite cover?

Josh: I like Hey Ya.

Tommy: I don't know that one.

Josh: I don't know the— but it's like, my baby don't mess around. He's like acoustic version. It's quite nice.

Tommy: Yeah, yeah, I like a Wonderwall one. I like a bit of Oasis, some really good covers. I think when they're in a different tone from the original, like they've shifted it, you can either ruin, ruin it or you can absolutely win.

Josh: Um, anything that's an acoustic of, uh, something that wasn't an acoustic. Yeah, I like that sort of shit.

Tommy: Yeah, 100%. Um, quickly, I forgot to tell you Yesterday when I was up in Shepparton, this is a bit of a podcast talking about podcasts on a podcast, and I know you love that, so I'll just give you at least one for today. I was blown away because up where I was in Echuca, that's where like the radio would actually send out the signal from Shepparton so the Echuca people could listen to us. And so I had it on 96.9, the old station that I used to host on. And I was listening to the new, the new people on there and obviously judging them as well. And, uh, also one of the guys' name's Tommy, isn't it? No, he's gone.

Josh: No, he's gone. Make that up. Okay.

Tommy: Um, yeah, so I think it's Josiah and Ellie. They sound great. It was awesome. I was thinking about like, they're, they're at their point in their journey and And I was thinking, it's cool when you've like, I was thinking that's, I was at that, I was at their spot on my journey. And so it's like the same path, but just every, you know, they're on theirs, which, yeah, I was just getting like nostalgic and reflective.

Josh: It's not completely linear. Did you see yourself in, upon reflection, do you think you were at a similar time in your life when you were doing it versus what it seems like there? Doing.

Tommy: Yeah, so I always used to think, you, I think everyone sort of sees ahead of themselves. So you're looking forward so much, and so you don't really stop and think about, okay, I'm here because this is where I'm meant to be on my journey. I'm not as good as someone in a, you know, metro market, or I'm not as accomplished as, or, you know, I haven't made it that far, or I just haven't earned that yet. So you're as good as where you are right now. And I think it's easy to get ahead of yourself thinking, I could easily be in a metro market. But I was like, I embraced, and that's what I did in Shepparton, I embraced the place that I was in on the journey and the learnings I had. And so it was cool to think about that's where they are and that's where I was. And then it could go, you know, somewhere completely different after. So I was kind of—

Josh: How has it changed?

Tommy: For me?

Josh: No, as in the radio station, is it, New imaging, is it sounding different or does it sound the same?

Tommy: Yeah, so this is what I wanted to tell you about. It all sounds very similar and they're talking about similar shit. I bet you their first week they did the topic of should you put pineapple on the pizza or not? Um, does fruit belong on pizzas, guys? Uh, but I didn't hear that. They actually sound a lot more, um, relaxed and, uh, normal than I think I did, but I'm hypercritical on myself. But what I did notice was the ads. And you never, like anyone who's been or lived in regional areas or country areas knows that like there's some pretty interesting ads. Frank Walker's everywhere in Australia selling the tiles. But what I did notice was a massive increase in podcast ads. So the Hit Network, which is where I was on in Shepparton, they own or they're part of PodcastOne. They've got the I don't know if that's like a separate business, isn't it?

Josh: Yeah, so the SEA bought into PodcastOne and they, they own the PodcastOne Australia. Yeah, um, section.

Tommy: And so there's, there's like, um, 30-second ads spruiking the podcasts that are on their PodcastOne network, which was not around.

Josh: How did they explain it?

Tommy: It— they had the hosts. And they were, they use like little snippets of the show. It was like a fully produced 30-second ad, a liner, a liner D, I think they called it back in the day, loaded in. And so there were, it was interesting though, 'cause it was like, you know, women talking about like, there's a podcast of these two girls that explore like health topics. But it's so fascinating. I heard like maybe 4 different ones across the weekend that I was there. But I was like, it's so funny. You're steering people away from listening to your radio. 'Cause I mean, this is the thing, people get like the bug, podcast bug, you go down the rabbit hole, there's hundreds. Once you jump on that app and then you're like, hang on, what else is there? You're telling me that there's a show called Serial? Oh, that's, I'll listen to that. Kim Kardashian, I was being Kim Kardashian at that moment last week. But yeah, so that was interesting that they're really spruiking podcasting. In regional areas, which is, I think, dangerous for them because people were forced to—

Josh: Well, I don't know if it's dangerous. I mean, what's the option? What's the alternative? That they don't mention, they pretend that podcasting isn't there? Don't build an audience at all and get absolutely smashed at that?

Tommy: Well, I think for the sales teams in these areas, it's hard enough as it is to get people involved. And then I think, yeah, they'd be slipping away. The audience within these markets would be slightly slipping. I mean, there is some prestige in the local radio and people do love it. Oh, I did also hear an ad for search. It's like searching for talent. Do you wanna be, do you wanna host your own breakfast show? And there was this girl, hi, I'm Ellie, or whatever it was. 'You know, I wanted to be on radio and I got my own show where now I can talk about whatever I want.' I said, 'Bullshit, no you can't. You talk about what they want you to talk about.' You know, Scoopla.

Josh: But it's— So what were they, so were they trying to, are they already trying to recruit a new breakfast show or what was the deal?

Tommy: No, it's that, SCI have a programme called Hubble or something. So it's like searching for potential talent. And so the ad directed people to go to their website and it was a date. We've got a 2-day event in Albury where you can come up and, you know, I think it'd just be people who want to be on the radio. And, um, and so they're searching for people within the areas, which I've always thought those, those those towns should have like a sheplebrity, like a local legend who is keen on, you know, being a superstar on radio and then have them in the town. Like it makes sense rather than the blow-ins.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: Blow-in like me.

Josh: I think that I've been critical to SEA Podcast One previously on the podcast, specifically just around some of the language they use or the messaging they have around what what they're doing and maybe trying to spin it to be more revolutionary than it actually is. However, with this stuff, I think that it's positive. I think the idea that they are going out to these regional areas and finding talent, because, I mean, having— I haven't lived, you know, in these regional areas. However, I did live in Berwick, so close enough. But the— I'm guessing that there isn't necessarily the infrastructure to help find talent. So, this is probably the only way that they think that they can get a podcast and it might start a conversation and get them into it and then discover that they can do it themselves.

Tommy: Yeah. Yeah. It's an interesting shift and is definitely notable from the time I was there because I loaded a lot of the ads and I remember we used to push people to go and listen to our podcast. From the, from the show itself, which surprisingly people did back then.

Josh: And, um, because how is your podcast still around? No, I think that's gone.

Tommy: No, it's gone. It'd be costing the money to keep, keep any of our data up there. They don't want any of that shit.

Josh: So, uh, the, um, the ads that you voiced, do you— what was your favourite ad that you ever voiced for the local station?

Tommy: Oh, it was everything from, you know, Shepparton Showcase Jewelers. Um, it was like, you know, jewellery ones. Nothing, nothing notable that I can remember, but just basic, basic shit. Oh yeah, just for any local business. It'd be more just like, um, we did a lot of competition, so we didn't have to voice like, you, you know, come down to Rick's Pool Centre. To get your discounted pool just in time for the summer. Wasn't that kind of stuff.

Josh: Who would voice that?

Tommy: No, they had a lot of that imaging coming in from somewhere else. I didn't actually see it, but it was more the competitions, the integration of the competitions that we ran. And then you'd try and do some creative idea. And in hindsight, it's like there was a lot. We used to kind of compensate with some super creative idea. Like one we tried to get, it was like this animal thing. I can't even remember what the prize was, but we got people to bring down their animal and then we ran them through this like, you know, like an obstacles course. And I just remember I've got video of it and just someone brought their sheep down and they were just, it was bizarre. And a pig, someone brought a pig down. And so they're like, we're like weaving these pigs through this thing and like, definitely a bit of animal cruelty happening. Just like, pull, come on, come on. Like they really want to win, so they're trying to pull them through the fucking, the hoop of the tire, and this animal's just like hating it. And then, uh, yeah, they probably won.

Josh: I mean, that's the thing that podcasting— I wonder, podcasting hasn't worked out, or it hasn't yet fit into that sort of area, which is what radio does so well, which is the community local content? Like, do you think that it's eventually going to get to a point where there's going to be up-and-coming people with podcasts and they will, you know, create these integrations with the shopping centre and be doing all of this sort of stuff?

Tommy: Yeah, it is interesting. I think half the audiences are so niche, you know, like, yeah, you get Christian Hull's audience down to the shopping center, it's like, you know exactly who you're going to get. Um, which—

Josh: well, you definitely won't have any of those Coles minis left because you imagine Christian Hull's audience at the shopping center, they've run out of Caramilk chocolate and someone just stabbed someone for the, for the, uh, the little down, down prices, a down finger.

Tommy: So I don't know, it is something that I like about it because regional towns, like, they get around the radio. And the kids listened to, but shout out to the Jarretts if they are listening. 'Cause I know the family that I stayed with, that I went to visit on the weekend in Kyabram, some friends of mine and you know Mitchell. I know they do about a 25-minute drive every morning from Kyabram over to the high school in Shepp. And they used to listen to Star FM and they still might. But I know they listen to our podcast while they're driving. So, it's like it's changing.

Josh: Maybe. Nothing better than learning about scams that might happen in regards to masturbation videos than on the drive to school. Yeah.

Tommy: Well, Mitchell's just gone 18 and his brother's a lot younger. So, we're, you know, we're bringing them up to scratch.

Josh: Good to learn.

Tommy: What's happening in the big smoke.

Josh: Yeah, well, talking about radio, it's actually probably good timing. Overnight we got an email from Kyle. He says, dear Tommy and Josh, my name's Kyle, really enjoy listening to the Daily Talk Show. I'm about to start a role at a radio station in Victoria as a digital content producer. I like to think that I'm following in your entertainment industry footsteps. I've got a few questions that I'd love to fire at you both. You ready for them? Oh yeah.

Tommy: I reckon this is gonna help the Jarretts in Kiaburra, but never know.

Josh: This is talking about niche. Number 1, do you find it difficult to switch your brains off content ideation mode? I'm always conceptualising and adding to my personal content list, but I wanna have the ability to switch off.

Tommy: No chance. ABC, Leon Sharp.

Josh: Always be contenting. Yeah. Yeah, I don't think it is about switching it off. I think that it is about prioritization, working out, okay, what is it? What are your goals at the moment? And then having a mechanism to write down the ideas that you do have. 'Cause if they're in your brain, they're taking up space and they're taking up, capacity to actually do anything and to think. Whereas if you have them in a pipeline and you can put, you know, we use a big Trello board, you could use something like that, have a list of everything, all your ideas, and then be ruthless when it comes to filter. And you can have those ideas sitting there for ages.

Tommy: I have watched some of Kyle's stuff, shout out to Kyle. We've spoken on Insta DMs, he slid in and—

Josh: Slid in?

Tommy: Yeah, I like some of his videos and I feel like I was watching them thinking that it was very— I was very similar to what he's doing now a few years ago. And I remember like he's just— I feel like he's given heaps of ideas a crack, which I think he's probably saying, writing that question because he's thinking about how much he's thinking about the stuff he's doing. And I think it serves you for a time where you are just obsessed and always contenting because it will slow down, I think. I don't think there's any, like you look at Casey Neistat, nonstop vlogging for a few years, that wasn't ever gonna stay the same, the same pace. And he's now like giving pushback to the amount of what he does, right? And so I think everyone, you correct this, you overcorrect. So you go real hard and then you slow it down and work out what you prioritize. So I don't think there's any danger in just immersing yourselves in it, especially for the role that he's going into. It's just like you've got to be on. Yeah, you've got, you know, you're, you're trying to prove yourself, not, you know, in some senses you're trying to land a whole bunch of ideas and some won't stick, but if you've got lots of them, maybe it will. So just go hard, son. ABC.

Josh: Yeah. And you don't want to be the donkey, as, as I've, uh, heard, which is, you know, the donkey is— depends on what context— wants something to— yeah, in this context where the donkey— imagine the donkey's thirsty, it's in the middle, uh, or it's thirsty and hungry.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: It's in a middle of the field. On one side is food, on the other side is water, and it keeps going back and forth and it can't decide whether to eat or to drink and ends up dying. And that's what can happen with our ideas, is we can be so— we know we can, you know, we can be back and forth and be, you know, questioning ourselves, and then we don't end up doing anything. I know when I was working at the radio station, the biggest shock for me was I had this idea that I was going to do what I thought was sort of a 9-to-5 job, and then I was going to come home and have my side hustle, and I was going to be creating all the of these personal projects. And I think the benefit of working for a radio station or being an employee of any company is you are— you can give yourself permission to say, this is what I'm focusing on, and go all in on that. Use that as a mechanism to create focus. And, um, because I think that there could be a risk there which I think that we all have done throughout our careers, which is focused on our side hustle more than the actual job. And at that point, it's normally the transition. You know, you can probably have a runway of 6 months of being checked out of one job and focusing on side hustle before you actually want to take off, right?

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: But from day dot, I think focusing on, you know, I think, you know, an extension onto this topic is focus on who do you— who is your boss? Who, who do you report to? Who actually is going to be measuring how you're going? Because I know that I would, uh, you know, in that whole distracted space, think of, you know, impressing everyone and, you know, all these 6 people all wanting different things. You know, there was— I remember, um— different people from different shows asking, requesting things, and I would do it. And yes, it does create great relationships that last a long time. But it's if you're expecting just to do a great job, thinking about the sole person that you're reporting to, I think is good as well.

Tommy: And are you still reporting to Jules Lund? He's still checking in, micromanaging you?

Josh: Yeah. I'm just texting him now. I had question number 2. Does it regularly frustrate you that through social media everyone now is a content creator? Because of this, I feel as though 90% of the content I consume, especially on Instagram and Facebook, is rubbish content. Should there be a content creation licence you need to earn before being able to post?

Tommy: Yeah, it's, um when we do it for a job, I, I think it— I think people are more amazed at the quality of what sometimes I put out, but I feel like they're looking at me like a punter and don't think that it's like actually what I do, it's my job. Um, but no, I think, I think it's great that everyone can create. It changes the game for the people that are actually taking it seriously because they have to re-look at how they're approaching it. Because if everyone can do it, you know, and yeah, you just got in early, there's no point of difference once everyone can do it. And so you have to focus in on what that point of difference is.

Josh: But you should have a license.

Tommy: You definitely should have a licence for your shit.

Josh: No, but I think they say, I think it is good to use shit content to inspire. Like, I find that I get, you know, a lot of comedians will go to a shit comedy show and that will actually spark them getting up and going to an open mic and doing it. I think that it's, um, you know, the democratisation of all of the tools so that anyone can do it obviously creates noise, but it also creates an opportunity for you to do something unique. So I think I would deconstruct what people are doing and saying, okay, what is it that has become the status quo? What is just the standard? And then building from there. Yeah, yeah.

Tommy: It's, um, what it actually has changed also is the, the fear that people would have. I remember when I first started posting videos, not a heap of people were doing it that were friends that I knew. And so there was those, that feeling of, and I kind of brushed it, I kind of you know, went in like a bull and tried to not think about it. When I put out a video, you feel those little feelings of like, oh fuck, I wonder what people are thinking. But I know for now, if everyone's doing it, you're just another person that's posting content. So that has kind of gone, which then allows you to focus on what you're actually creating. Um, and maybe it allows you to kind of just fit in, like, so you don't really stand out when you are in that really shit phase that everyone goes through, and you, and you're getting better and better. So it allows you to just, um, you know, blend in, and then hopefully I think once you get better you can stand out.

Josh: I think it's also, um, a good opportunity to sort of stay humble. There's a, there's a tool that I love, um, referring to, or it's sort of a a theory that Dan Ariely, Dan Ariely, an organisational psychologist talks about, or like a sociologist, I think. He talks about the IKEA effect, which is basically they, you know, ran a study where they got people to make paper cranes. And then at the end, they had the opportunity of buying the paper cranes that they had made Or they could buy pre-made paper cranes. And what they found was people paid significantly more for the paper cranes they made. And so, their findings were that, and this is why they call it the IKEA effect, is we value things more when we have a role in making them. So, for instance, when you cook pasta at home, when you make the pasta, when you do that, that there's a thing in us that thinks that the food that we're making tastes better than it actually does. And so, I think using the IKEA effect or knowing that the IKEA effect is there is a great way to stay humble. 'Cause what it's saying is it's saying, okay, like, because I make this, I'm already assuming a certain level of quality that may not actually be, being seen by external parties. And then secondly, I think that the filter of no one gives a fuck is a really good starting point for content that you make. So yeah, and this is with the Daily Talk Show. I think that our approach, you know, even in the tagline, a conversation sometimes worth recording, we realise that we fucking you know, have hits but a lot of misses, and we can be boring at times and all that sort of shit, but it's part of the process. I think that maybe getting comfortable with that, um, can be really good too. And then I think that, um, you'll then feel less sort of annoyed by all of the other people doing shit stuff around you, if that makes sense. Yeah, yeah.

Tommy: That's good. Any, uh, any more from Kyle Boy? What's happening?

Josh: Yeah, we'll do, we'll do one more. He says, uh, American hustler Gary Vaynerchuk preaches documenting over creating. I tend to disagree with this approach as it promotes average, lazy, and non-thought-through content. What are your opinions on this?

Tommy: Yeah, interesting. Um, I think, I think it's that advice is for people that are stuck in that space of, I, I don't know what to create. And so I think there's a lot more to document than what can— what people can then— what, what people can create. So it's like documenting. I think people like seeing processes of things and seeing how things work and In the context of how he says and why he says it, it's like for business, you know, for real estate agents, you know. But no, there is—

Josh: I think that's the reality of it.

Tommy: I think it is the— this leads back to his license, the content license. I think what Gary Vee is saying, you have a license. It's Gary Vee's fault. He's given the— he's issued a licence to everybody out there., and he said just document versus create. I think creating can feel kind of staged, staged and a bit forced or overthought, where he's saying don't overthink that, just what's happening around you and what's happening to you. And that's easier to tell, it's more personable and more close to you, so come across in some senses it should come across more genuine than what it would be if you were trying to, you know, come up with some concepts and, you know, forge some, you know, something, forming some concepts and then executing it versus just what's happening around you and what's going on in your life, which is personal.

Josh: Yeah, I agree. I think it's sort of taking that minimum viable product approach, which they talk in startup land. It's, you know, what's the minimum amount that we can do right now to test this idea? And for most people, the coming up with the creative is too hard, but working with what they have around them, the best camera is the one that's on you. Most cases that's your iPhone or your Android or whatever you use.

Tommy: I carry around a RED every day. Exactly. In my backpack.

Josh: You know, RED are doing, they've got a smartphone now.

Tommy: Bullshit, RED cameras? Yeah. What?

Josh: Yeah, they've got a, it's still, it's been delayed a lot. I think it was announced last year in August and it requires a PhD. Yeah, it probably would. It's pretty insane actually. If you, I think it's called the Hydrogen. If you type in the Red Hydrogen into Google, but, um, it's a— the idea is it's using a screen that can do sort of like holograms, I think is what it is. It's like the sort of 3-dimensional sort of stuff. But the idea is, and why most people are going to be buying this phone when it eventually actually does come out, like a bunch of people, all the Red fanboys put their, um deposits down already. But, um, yeah, that apparently you'll be able to get really beautiful, uh, beautiful photos using it.

Tommy: And if you didn't know, RED is like a, um, cinema camera. It's expensive. Uh, yeah, camera, camera. If you don't care about cameras, it doesn't matter.

Josh: You nailed that.

Tommy: Well, I was trying to think about people who— and I was thinking about myself that has no idea about cameras.

Josh: Yeah, just—

Tommy: yeah, exactly.

Josh: That was more of a question, was it? I will say, right, is a camera, right, Josh?

Tommy: Mason, who was in the office yesterday, was telling me about Gary Vee's team. And this is something I've had a bit of a gripe with, is when people compare Gary Vee's content to what they're creating for themselves and then want what Gary Vee has. I'll tell you right now, and Mason told me this yesterday, for Gary Vee's personal brand, he has 26 people working on the content. 26 fucking people. If they're on $40 grand each, think about that. And if people are annoyed about having to spend $400 on a— on, you know, getting someone to come out to film something, think again, because he's spending millions and millions, and you're not going to get what he has for $400. You're gonna have to drop a lot more.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: Yeah, crazy.

Josh: Yeah, I think anyone that's getting annoyed at spending $400 probably should just, uh, buy a GoPro with it and do it themselves.

Tommy: True.

Josh: It's probably—

Tommy: I am, I am getting tagged in a lot more and getting asked a lot more about, um, products, what people should buy. Like yesterday I was tagged in something, it's like, what, what, um, stabiliser should I buy? And all of this stuff for, for If you're a punter, it's like they're not even a—

Josh: Did you just tell them just to fucking use a steady hand, you lazy fuck? Did you write that back?

Tommy: Actually didn't write back. I was like, okay, I can't be fucked.

Josh: Like, I did a bit of a Facebook, uh, audits maybe, you know, 12 months ago where I just, uh, clicked read on all of my— I had 99+ unread Facebook messages, and Bree's like 'What the fuck are you doing?' I'm like, 'I'm just like clearing it out.' And she's like, 'What are all these?' And she's reading them, and they were just people that I like went to school with, you know, 2003, being like, 'Hey Josh, I'm thinking about buying a Mac. Do you think that this would be that like the best approach?' Or like, it's so funny, the, um, the amount of— especially through Melbourne Geek and doing that blog, uh, I do get the, uh regular Facebook message. It always seems on— if it's not on Facebook Messenger, I feel like I'm way more likely to, um, to respond.

Tommy: Yeah, yeah.

Josh: For whatever reason, Facebook Messenger just feels like a bit of a dark hole.

Tommy: Yeah, well, it's how you position yourself though. You were the Melbourne Geek, so you are the go-to guy for any—

Josh: I had a caricature. I was on Melbourne Talk Radio, which was a radio station which went, uh, I think it went bust, but, um, I actually, if you search on SoundCloud, uh, Josh Janson MTR, uh, you'll be able to find, uh, the segment that I, that I did with, um, Glenn Ridge from Sail of the Century, uh, on me talking about technology and answering people's tech questions.

Tommy: Oh yes, we should get a little snippet to play at some point.

Josh: Yeah, that could be fun. Um, great. It's the Daily Talk Show, everyone. Uh, I'm— I better go to bed so I can listen to— I'm guessing Shimmer will be coming up soon, that song, you know, another beautiful acoustic song. You know the Shimmer? She calls me from the cold, just when I was alone, feeling shy.

Tommy: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Josh: Yeah, really, everyone gets into the chorus. Um, what do you— what are you off to do? What are you doing?

Tommy: I've got to shoot. It's currently 6:34 AM, uh, just in the office about to get ready to head off to film some stuff.

Josh: Perfect, great. Well, hi@thedailytalkshow.com is the email address Michelle wrote, uh, to us in regards to my, uh, concerning email, the blackmail email. She said the blackmail email is a fraud. I get one of those a week hackers get onto old forums and easy to hack databases. Yeah, so I really—

Tommy: I mean, I had it on the way to work this morning. I was thinking about the episode name for yesterday and I was really annoyed that we didn't go with You Messed with the Wrong Wanker.

Josh: That's very good. I did think maybe One of the things of trolling the dude who emailed me was I was thinking of writing back and saying, hey, uh, I've actually front-footed by releasing my own video. I've decided to out myself, so you've got nothing on me now. Just completely disarm them. Uh, but that would be fairly shocking, to say the least. Oh God, cool, awesome. All right, have a good one, guys. We'll see you tomorrow. See you guys.