#169 – Podcast charts/
- September 7, 2018
The Daily Talk Show — Friday September 7 (Ep 169) – Josh Janssen & Tommy Jackett
Getting motion sick on the bus, struggling small business cafes, the cost of coffee, gaming the iTunes charts and why we’re doing the podcast.
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conversation sometimes worth recording with Josh Johnson and Tommy jacket. It's a daily Talk Show Episode 169. Happy Friday. Everyone.
I don't want to jinx this episode, I have realized something. Josh,
the place where I am right now doing this podcast because if you've just tuned in first episode out of 169 of them, Josh is overseas on a trip around Europe and I'm currently back in our hometown of Melbourne, but I'm at the foreshore at Brighton Beach. So I'm just sitting in the car but I've realized an episode from here has never gone live What do you mean? Oh yeah, I've done I've we haven't done an episode where we've recorded and it successfully worked for for half an hour This is the spot I've just realized because i've i've talked about where it like I've talked about a few things around my surroundings and and I was like I could talk about that again. And they're like now it's already gone. And then I thought no, it hasn't because this is a spot where an episode it's never been successful.
Ah, we talked about the No no, no that was that was Greenpoint that was the chapati from so this is Yeah. So sorry. When I say Brighton Beach i mean i would i can see Brighton Beach from where I am but I met Elwood beach
and so I can't remember what what like so for people who don't know yeah we've had a couple of it we probably lost maybe three three episodes that we've had to completely Can that be about right over the last year in a bit months
yeah which means we have to do pretty much tuned into because that even if we get through half of it we lose it it's pretty much like doing a full episode it's bullshit yeah it's yeah it's currently six I am where I am and you've just arrived in Croatia yet we're
in the DOM which is a small coastal town and it is a beautiful we arrived on the bus and from Ljubljana the the white like to remember loop at the beginning I think was saying liberally on or some shit but I just broke down the word lube Lee Ana, it's very like once you do that, it's a lot easier to to remember or lay in line. I love the load they go.
it really doesn't actually help having those I'm impressed those memory things. What are they called manana manana, manana gnomic device, what is it? Yeah, well, you whatever, your technique ease on that thing that you know, you just can't mnemonic mnemonic device there we go everyone in their car
yes something that triggers the memory yeah so the triggers
yeah interesting and what's the smell of
wherever you are aware and as
I always like right now
the die yeah I always like when I gotta you know like something that sticks at all can stick add is that this kind of smell of a new place you're in the summer of all you're on the actually you're on the other side so you should have just on the back end of summer in Croatia Is it like what's the what's the vibe day
perfect like it's not too hot not too cold we arrived late here so we arrived at 7:30pm and so we've had dinner but yeah it was a
it's it's perfectly climates perfect that the hard bit was getting here
because JJ in you know if geek fashion gets carsick sometimes
it was windy roads and we booked the the first seats like paid the extra euro to be able to sit at the front and it turns out that the the seats at the front aren't actually at the front it was the second ones in and I haven't been motion sick really it all on this whole trip but very close to vomited on the bus
and you've been on buses and shit through Positano, which is
like wild um yeah, I think I was just like, I was actually I felt before I even got onto the bus. I was feeling sick. But then on Bray gave me some medication that she'd gotten earlier in the trip in Singapore when she had food poisoning. And it was I had the best sleep I can understand why really get into meditation and I know the exact reason why I don't talk much because I was like, man that was such like it was it blacked me like I could see black I couldn't see any light
and yeah, so I was I was thinking this this could be a little life hack just taken one of these is
what the fuck was in it? What What did you take?
It knocked me out though.
It's you probably super sensitive because like you said, You didn't take painkillers as a kid, you kind of have an aversion to them. What was the reason for you? I don't
like my brother. He's probably African. He was going through a stage of having like, you know, in Europe in each morning type of thing. But no, I wasn't necessarily like my parents and hippies that your parents are hippies was your mom very sensitive to not taking medication would you go to like a Chinese doctor?
Oh, we kind of had a bit of both Yeah, we always had penicillin half so good meat Yeah, I definitely Yeah, definitely wasn't a house that didn't have any actual hard drugs I mean had drug bang peloton
a drag panel or Yeah,
or Chinese medicine stuff? Did you? What was the weirdest thing that ever like that you ever sort of did like that you did your mom ever take you to like a witch doctor or anything like that.
Now, I went to our she had this guy who was a Chinese doctor, and he used to do a bunch of healing. He ended up dying of brain cancer, unfortunately, how horrible is that? Yeah. Second medicine man. And then he gets struck down by that seems like
a colon. thing happens. My maintenance he's on. He's dad was a doctor and was, you know, really sort of well respected as someone who went to papa New Guinea and served there and looked after a bunch of people. And he went in for heart surgery and never came back, you know, was unconscious and he was just two years. And so the family like Nissan and his family would message his dad each day to keep blood flow going and stuff like that. But he passed away and he was, you know, like a medical night.
Yeah, it's it's hard. I mean, it's, it's like you say doctors that are overweight. This is a lot of doctors that are overweight doesn't mean that you're not only you are Yeah, yeah, it's hard one
I was walking yesterday in in Collingwood. And this is thing and I don't know if you've if you get like this. But there's a local business that it's a cafe, and no one goes there. And no one's been there since it opened. And I walk past and I look in and just look at the guy who started this. And I've seen him around. And maybe I've built out the story bigger than these in my head. But I just look in I just think fact my heart breaks for this guy who's probably put all these chips on this on this thing on this business. I can't remember the name of the cafe. It's probably contributes to the reason why it's not really
doing very good. But for calling what's its own Smith straight and just for your context. And I guess people who live in Melbourne in Collingwood, it's neither pasta place, you know, the mamas Pastor Brian and I and I went there. He, he feel like they charged a lot for almond milk. But they were I actually literally we went there because the guy he was open super early in the morning, and no one was there. And it made me feel like I get sort of a Sick, Sad feeling. Whenever I say especially restaurants and cafes, because you think like, you hear those stories. It's like all you know, they've taken their, you know, big loan out to, you know, finance the feed out or whatever it is.
and so you feel it too, when you go in. Yeah,
I just yeah, it's, it's a I definitely like any small business that's not busy and doesn't have people in there. I just, you know, I just, I just look at the amount of shops that are out and about, and you just do the math and it's like, how would How would I surviving?
We are totally I believe the story in my head that he's a drug dealer laundering money just to make myself feel better. Yeah, it sounds like at
least he's got a profitable business that evening to clean the money through a business like the cafe. But the guide was doing like he, he at one week had a baby Murray out the front trying to trying to do like, different, you know, different bits and pieces and it's all my god stand. Like, it's got that
empathy, doesn't it?
Yeah. But it was hard. And I think, you know, as a business owner, I look at that stuff. And for that kind of business where you're relying on people coming to you, it's such an old sort of model of, you know, where we we actively pursuing and not relying on people walking into our, our office, you know, to land work, and we can't, you know, what can we could travel for I worked you know, move it around. It's such a it's an old model that just is scary. And it's like, it's like, I don't know, I don't know who think it's thinks it's a great idea. So one in I think it's like one two and three cafes file. Yeah,
I mean, that doesn't surprise me. I think the something ridiculous I think that I even get sad when or guilty. If I go to a cafe that has cheaper coffee. There's one specifically in Abbotsford that I go to the people are super nice, but I get really guilty when I use the
cards. What you know. Yes. stamps and all that sort of thing. loyalty cards? Yes. And when it comes to the free coffee. I feel bad every single time getting the free coffee. I feel like maybe I shouldn't even get the free coffee. I should just let it go.
No, that's that's ridiculous that you've purchased they come
around. So okay, what do we need that they give one every two or three every like five coffees. It's literally it's like bringing, I would go there three times. Every time. every fourth time we go there. We would get a free coffee.
It would average your coffees out to be what $3 20
h which is probably what they should be.
But I don't even charge extra almond milk. And they use milk lab which is like the best milk almond milk you can get. Yeah. concerned. But I've been to that hipster joint that that's fine. They're not they're not struggling. They think there's something about one this is the one that's like got the mean you probably think that the hipsters but now there's like an older like great lady. It's got like a really nice ah.
And yeah. On the corner. The salad sandwiches. Well, now they good now they're not. They're not struggling? They are okay. I think there's the problem is when something doesn't catch on, like a business like this guy's it's just a it's like a self fulfilling prophecy. No one's coming in. Just like the chance of actually getting people converting people now that like as if I'm the only one who walks past that place and doesn't I purposefully don't make eye contact this bloke who owns it, so I feel bad for they would be bunch of people that work around that area. And then you just like avoiding it. And it's like the uncomfortable feeling I would feel. I think that's what it is. I think about how I feel. But I could imagine it's like 10 x Yeah. for him. Right? Do you do you think like embarrassing or something Do you
think that we're going to look back at our lives and think have ridiculous at was how much we spent on coffee? Like I'm like, I just feel like in in the history books. They can be like, yeah, they paid coffee only costs like 40 cents to make. But then everyone would spend six bucks. Like, surely that's going to be we're going to look back at that and think we're pretty stupid.
I think it's going to get worse before it gets better. You know how I went a couple of weeks ago to that coffee roasting factory to make that video. Yeah, about that business. And the guy who I met, I just got this little taste of the sort of world that he's in. And I really want to have him on the podcast. He was super interesting. And he has just a, it's almost like an inside look at you know, he's the guy that creates the coffee that everyone's drinking around Melbourne. Some a big portion of the coffee, everyone's drinking around Melbourne in Australia, but just the vibe of just sort of what, how, how deep. This goes from a money perspective. Like, it's such big business. And so I think that's going to keep it going for quite some time before we see pay for real and, and people are addicted to this shit. So it's like, my coffee habits got so much worse. So I think it's I think it's still I don't think it will, I don't think will be awakened
What about like making your own coffee though? Like, it's so much cheaper to make your own coffee fresh than it is to buy? Like at a cafe. Right?
I think we're gonna for our office will have like a mock master. Yeah. Oh, that kind of brewed star coffee. You still need to buy the roasted beans. But
there is still into cop or something at the high end for versus, you know, paying a few bucks at a cafe.
The experience though, is too great for people. I think it's like little Sony. These people come together hundred percent. And you don't even like socializing. You still like going to finish up to get a cup of coffee. I said, I've
got you as well as being just for the coffee. So I've gone the other way around. Like I I just say it is like, Okay, if people can be around, I'll I'll deal with it. Because coffee is going to be there. You
might as well yeah, it's
surprisingly, I've done think
it would be hard. Like, how much money are people really making from coffee after power bills? Or that is one thing the guy said that I met he said, You know, people are very concerned about coffee cups. And the issue with the environment, right, which is a you know, it's a legitimate concern, because there's hundreds of thousands of these things. Yeah, yeah. But he said, What people don't think about is the
the power bills and the power consumption of all of these coffee machines around Australia, because they suck a hell of a lot of power. And so yeah, it's one thing that we wouldn't really you know, the power and the water huge amounts, huge amounts. So, like 711 all the you know, these companies that are doing this dollar coffee it's like there was a lot of power going to these little machines every single day, 24 hours a day in some cases it's
like I'm watching that documentary I think it was cow spirit see that was talking about the impact of changing your life globes which has been this big campaign that with you know, all followed along with and changed our like lobes to be more energy efficient or changing our taps like showerheads from the awesome rain style ones that feel awesome to the shitty environmental ones that feels like you're getting stabbed in the back and it turns out that when you know, it's like 50% of all of this energy it's coming from the meat consumption
yeah yeah, I mean it's we are definitely advertise to
be influenced into what we should be caring about as well. And so there is a lot of stuff that we're not saying
just just an update Josh on where I am, it's become light now. And I'm getting quite a few stairs from people who are riding past or exercising running along the beach we are a big sign the daily talk show sign that you can just have illuminated so people know
it's a great idea I know you wanted to get the the cost because
maybe we could settle for magnetized thing that can be taken on and off. That would wouldn't be a bad idea. I was actually I'm subscribed to this email newsletter called pod news, which is done by this podcast radio dude. Very, very informative. But they've done a whole
piece on the lightest one about how fact the iTunes charts
and how basically what's been happening, they did this whole comparison and working out who's paying to be able to get basically to game the system. And again, the top charts
Oh, you know,
is this is it a similar thing to the New York Times bestseller? Yeah,
well, it's, it's not too dissimilar. So what's happening, people are just going to five years spent 250 bucks. And there's a dude in Bangladesh that has hundreds of iPhones. And they literally just a team of people go in and subscribe. And the point that guy was making who did sort of this expose a was that
subscription, like subscribing on iTunes seems to be the metric that they used. So for a long time, I thought it was reviews and ratings and stuff like that. But what he was able to show was that these people in the top 200 on iTunes that have like
five ratings, so he was, but it was basically pointing out the fact that Apple have done a little bit like the neglected podcasts in a lot of ways. When you think about net podcast, podcasting software, like iTunes,
yet people always work this out. I think
for the huge businesses, we always think, Well, I know I do think that they've got their shit together. Yeah, but then they just use he this kind of stuff. It's like, how much how big that come funny. How many people are working there? And how much of an oversight is that to just have? have paper be able to game it? Yeah, I think I think they're moving so fast. They create this stuff. And then they just, it's almost like, it helps them they will they rely on people working this shit out. Because then they're like, okay, that's where we weren't looking. Well, that's how that's how blind spot to be 11 display on that nobody, right? Like,
I want to have much the, you know, the chat like it because I've been thinking I to and fro from this stuff. Where I I look at the numbers I look at the metrics. We don't have that impressive numbers. In a lot of regards. You know, we by no means have a huge subscription base. But what I'm proud of is that we're building every single you know, episode we we were slowly gaining an audience and I think that the way that we've approached it, which is like not trying to be anything that way, not like this, some like one of the podcasts. I love shameless. That's by missions are I think Mitch listens to the show sometimes. And they've gotten a great following. And they've going up the ranks. And the reason is, they have created a podcast that specifically around a topic that people are into, it's like, around reality stuff. And it's the tagline is, it's like,
yeah, like, smart conversations around dumb shit, basically. So like, you know, having smart conversations around reality shows. It's,
it's actually crazy because our app shows the reverse dumb conversations around smart
fucking jerk. But like it is, it's harder for us to,
to sort of sell what we're doing as a concept, I think.
Yeah, there is a Rafa. he popped Dude, I probably know you wouldn't know that. I would. m&m Russ. I know.
Ross. He's a
receive a dude from
I think he's known as Russell. But when you say it like that, it takes away the coolness of his brand, which is just Russ, he's not know soon as I don't see soon, but he released a song a day for like 80 days on SoundCloud. He is an easy guy, and he's my, he's done, like 11 albums. And these, he's made it now. Gary V's like, huge. Johnny loves him. Yeah, it's probably because of his work ethic. But I was listening to an interview last night of his he's dropping new album, I think today, and he was saying that that that was saying like, it was there moment, like, where it just like, blew up for you. And he's like, No, it didn't. It was like this slow burn. I did so many projects. I just, I had a following that sort of when I started the SoundCloud stuff he got he already had a, you know, maybe 1000 people that would listen to his music, a small little thing, but he just said it just slowly, slowly started to build, which is just another way of doing it. I think everyone looks for that, that hockey stick growth, that explosive moment, but if you just like, it's, it's similar to what we will tell you about this show, if you can, and it is one way of doing it. But fuck, it's painful. Because you you eat it. It's more impactful when you do have that big growth moment, I guess. Because if the other option is
slowly why you doing it? Yeah, why we doing this? Yeah, what's the answer for you,
I love getting up at six 5:30am to leave my baby and go to 711, get a coffee in, come down to the beach and do a podcast. That's pretty much well now. And I I think it's you mentioned your sort of goal for this year was creative momentum. And
I liked the benefit of your goal. Because it has it, it feels it's it's increased my communication skills, it's increased my creativity, it's, it's nice to commit to something and actually, you know,
fulfill that commitment each day. And it makes you proud, like, so there's a heap of rewards to this.
And it's hard, like, I think when you do push through something that is hard on every diet, but there is that reward on the other side. So there's so many reasons why I think it's, it's an artist, it's like this has doing this podcast has changed. What I'm now doing work was because we're starting our business together. And it's like you that's what happens when you get to work. Yeah, things start to happen. And you start to connect dots, or form a new pathway or direction in something, and CEO, and the way I think,
to do that stuff, and I think it's not taking it like, because I think that the bit that I'm torn in, is like, I think even though I have that sort of opinion around the charts, I also think it's, like, amazing, it's like, it's a, there's lots of different ways to measure things. And for instance, for what shameless of doing like, that is, that is such a strong success metric, because they're doing something for big group of people, and they're getting that traction. And it's like, I couldn't be happier for independent people to be publishing content and being in the same places as some of the biggest media companies. I think that what can happen these four other podcasters or anything in life, I think that we can see the success that other people are having, and say, okay, whoa, what do we need to do to get that success versus remembering why you're doing it in the first place. And the more when I remember why we're doing it, for me, it becomes so much easier which is, you know, the reason that we're doing this is to connect you and I to connect to be able to synthesize our thoughts to have something consistent and to also be able to you know, share this experience with other people too and that doesn't have to be thousands of people you know, that could be literally having 20, 3050
people that I you know, I'm stoked with idea that anyone listens to us
yeah I remember feeling a similar why when all these you know, a year and a half into doing radio and shipping and I thought fact I've actually got good how much I was reflecting on when I first started to now and how I could complete a show or for you and I it's like the being able to do 30 minutes of conversation with each other is so easy now in terms of like we can get through it yeah if you know if you have the level of how great it is
you know aside just being able to talk for 30 minutes to each other I remember at the start of this journey It was like it was hard and then you kind of get to the single site 30 minutes is so easy and I was like I wonder if that's that thinking can sort of be detrimental to
you know how great you could get because I think people could be like oh now this is fucking easy and they just hone in on that feeling where it's like mocking the why of the quality of something but I do like doing something so much that you like that this is this is good and then the bars higher comes away from thing you stop focusing on different things and I think for us we have a long term you know strategy and so that means if we're willing to do 510 years like if we do like you know some of the biggest radio shows have been going for 10 plus years and so if think about if this is you one of 10 years you know like it's a I think you start to think about things in a different way you taking a photo for Instagram
let's just the the this San swipe it just went past so little content opportunity ABC
always be contacting is Leon Sharon says don't talk show anything else TJ before we head off for Friday the Friday
looking forward to I'm going away for the weekend so should be a few stories I'm really looking forward to having a campfire with my son just sitting around watching a little fire I don't know how how we go you probably want to go touch it but I'm candy that night he's built himself but you haven't
it's a great idea getting on a sugar high ran for a good one Josh great parenting but what
the whole like for me I don't know if this is to sort of thing americanizing things too much bit creating small was getting a bit of cha marshmallows little he's he's too young he's only he's only 910 months easier for him you doing if he
do it for
the the reality will be all set up the fire and he'll what he will hang around for three minutes and want to go inside just because he's bored. And so me and him will go inside. And I'll sit out there by myself around a fire
sounds amazing. So where are you headed off to
a Chuka which is two and a half hours from Melbourne that's happening either river the Murray River the divide between New South Wales and Victoria yeah
great spot I was filming there um the end of last year for documentary it's a guessing it'll be pretty chilly still
yeah i think it's it's starting to warm up here in Melbourne and when I say warm getting to 20 degrees feels like it's not a good summer again in comparison to it being two degrees but it's it's currently freezing freezing in the car amazing
well I better let you go to daily talk show everyone hype a daily talk show.com if you want to send us an email and I'm off and
to explore Croatia well I'm actually off to bed but I'll be doing that no report back Monday and we'll be hearing all about your camp fire
effect on what do you want to call it can't fight expedition antics antics Yeah, guy Have a good one guys. See ya.