Order more pizza 🍕

Tommy: Wait a minute!

Josh: Crossface, the Daily Talk Show, a conversation sometimes worth recording with Josh Janson and Tommy Jackett. It's a Daily Talk Show, episode 164 or 63. What did we decide it was? 163.

Tommy: 163. You know what, this feels like 164, because this is part 2 of this episode because we gave it a good crack at 6 AM Australian time, but the connection wasn't great enough. And, and now we've— we're rendezvousing another 6 hours, 7 hours later. So what's going on?

Josh: It's not even part 2. It's not, not part 2 because they'll never hear it.

Tommy: Yeah, true, true. But, um, part 2 in my heart.

Josh: No, it's, uh, you want it to be part 2. You, you want it to think as if we, uh Didn't just waste an hour in the morning. But no, I'm doing well. I mean, thanks for asking, not that you did, but I'm in Lake Bled right now, and I'm not in the lake, but I mean, I'm guessing it's Bled, I don't know, but I'm next to a lake. This is the best spot I can get for my internet connection right now.

Tommy: It looks a bit Game of Thrones-esque, not as old. But just looks like—

Josh: haven't seen them, the movie or the TV shows.

Tommy: The movie.

Josh: The movie.

Tommy: How's that Game of Thrones movie?

Josh: They probably will. You'd think that it's, uh, it gets enough hype. Yeah, but, um, there's been a few references when we've done tours where people have made a Game of Thrones joke and then look at me because I've got glasses, and obviously that's like I would be into everything.

Tommy: Oh, they just think you're a nerd. You must— what about those Warcraft cards?

Josh: Yeah. Oh, hey, I'm sure someone, someone did mention Dungeons and Dragons or something and made a joke about that on yesterday's tour and then looked at me.

Tommy: I saw one of the girls from Game of Thrones, or, uh, just in Collingwood near our office, which is crazy. I can't, I can't remember. I don't know her, her real name. But she's one of the main characters. And, um, I was looking at her in this cafe and I was like, it was just a normal morning getting a coffee, and she was having coffee with somebody. And I was just looking at her, she kind of looked at me, smiled. I said to James, my mate, uh, she looks like she's from Game of Thrones, but no chance. Anyway, sure enough, the barista, when she left, she's like He— she's like, you know, that's, that's that chick from Game of Thrones. Holy shit, in Collingwood?

Josh: Where is she from? What country?

Tommy: Uh, I think she's, she's either American or English, but she was here living in Australia filming, filming a movie, um, for a couple of months. So this was like her hood, which— yeah, it's weird. I think the annoying thing about being a celebrity would just be like, if you're kind of like not Tom Cruise-esque, but you've just made it and people are starting to recognise you, but they actually aren't recognising you for being this celebrity. They're just like, fuck you. Yeah, I think I know you.

Josh: Are you—

Tommy: did we meet ages ago? It's like it just becomes this recognised for nothing but other than you look familiar.

Josh: Well, I'm sure like people who are in like, uh, Commercials would get all— you get that all the time. It's like, are you the mower in that mowing commercial? I'm sure that that's—

Tommy: My mate Fitzie was the guy jumping in the Toyota ad that was the silhouette. He used to say—

Josh: He was the silhouette?

Tommy: He was the silhouette jumping in one of the ads for the cricket or something. He's like, he used to just take the piss and introduce him as himself as, yeah, you may see me on the silhouette from the jumping ad.

Josh: That's actually— that does have a lot of cut-through though. Yeah, I'm actually impressed.

Tommy: It's novel. So maybe that's an episode. We will get Fitzy, the silhouette of the jumping Toyota from the jumping Toyota ad, which, if you don't live in Australia, you probably have no idea what we're talking about. But it's just— think of a silhouette of a person jumping up Yeah, that was him.

Josh: Well, I think that we should do— we should interview him with video and just light him as a silhouette, like in a Current Affair exclusive or something. I love it. That could be, um, that could be a bit of fun. I, um, I saw on, uh, Instagram a friend of mine is living in London at the moment, and she, um, she posted a photo of a care pack from Australia. Um, I was wondering if, if you got a care pack from your parents, what do you think would be in it? Oh, what's the main things?

Tommy: From my parents, it definitely wouldn't be junk food. Uh, okay, it would be like, it'd be like herbal shit. Thanks, Mum. But she'd be looking out for my health. She'd give me some echinacea. She would have me some drops that are made up of a whole bunch of funky stuff, Asian— was Chinese medicine, and maybe like a neti poti. Do you know what that is?

Josh: A neti poti? No, is that like a brush to clean up the skid marks?

Tommy: No, no, no. As a young child, you probably would have had a bit of fun with with it based on the shape, but it was a— it basically looks like it's a nose douche, so it cleans out your sinuses. So it looks like— it's hard to explain, like, it— so the closest thing, you've never smoked them, but a bong, a marijuana bong, bong that you smoke weed out of. It's like you put the tube where you put the drugs into, into your nose, and it's full of like warm salty water, and you tilt your head to the side and you pour it and it goes in one nostril and out the other. It's great for your sinuses, cleans them out.

Josh: But why would your mum give you a neti potty?

Tommy: Well, if I was living in London, she'd be concerned that I'm getting a cold every second day because it's freezing some of the year.

Josh: And you use a neti potty when you— I like saying the word neti potty. You use the neti potty when you're sick most times, do you?

Tommy: Yeah, yeah, you can do it when you're not. But just when you've sort of got a bit of nasal issues, it helps out. You know who should use it? Christian Hull, who's been on this show, said he was addicted to sinus spray.

Josh: Probably be good for him. I don't know, but maybe that's just another, is that the drug that you take if you want to get off the nasal spray? Or is neti poti, to me the neti poti sounds almost like the, the heroin and he's currently on the Panadol. Like, neti poti, the— I'll stop saying it, but the— it sounds like it's a big instrument. If you're describing it as the size of a bong, I mean, I haven't— I've only really seen, you know, the ones in the shops or sort of a homemade one that would be just hanging in our primary school when we were kids. I'm sure it was probably yours. Made out of the, you know, what do you use? Like a Gatorade bottle and a little bit of hose. Yeah, piece of hose. Tubing.

Tommy: Piece of hose, mate.

Josh: Piece of hose, that's it.

Tommy: I've stolen plenty of hose in my time.

Josh: What do you think? There's someone in Brighton right now who doesn't have a working hose to this day because Tommy Jacket stole a little bit from his pool.

Tommy: No, no, there was, I mean, you either, you've got two types of bong heads. You've got the considerate and the inconsiderate. The inconsiderate one will cut the hose in the middle of the hose. The considerate one will cut it, will actually remove the head of the hose and take off the fixture, cut it, put the fixture back on.

Josh: Bit of a mod job.

Tommy: Put the fixture back on and say, thanks, thanks Uncle Bruce for the tip of the hose.

Josh: I guess you can know how many bongheads you have around your neighbourhood by how short your hose is getting. By the time, once you realise that you can't get any, about, you know, more than a metre away from your point, they've probably, it's probably peak.

Tommy: I saw a meme recently that was about Bunnings are now selling 5-inch, 5-centimeter pieces of hosing. Yeah, it was a classic.

Josh: It would fix the problem. But no, what I wanted to, about this care pack, what are the typical items? When you think about an Australian care pack, What would you expect?

Tommy: Tim Tams. This is, this is basically what will be in it, and you don't even need to tell me because I know. Tim Tams, Vegemite, Ugg boots. Far out. Maybe a copy of The Castle.

Josh: So that, yeah, so they actually had the Tim Tams and the Vegemite, all that sort of thing. Yeah, but the, the controversy came when I just had consumed the content, enjoyed it, and said, oh, that's— thought that was nice. And then later last night, Bree said, hey, I was just talking to Ev, um, who's a friend who's in London. And, and Bree said, do you know what flavour the Tim Tams were? I said, well, they'll just be standard because we fucking care, but like, don't, don't stray. Hashtag don't stray.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: Um, her mum had given her white chocolate Tim Tams. And coffee Tim Tams. Is that a care pack or some sort of troll?

Tommy: That's assassination. She could die from them.

Josh: Yeah. Is that the worst combination? Like, you've spent all the money to send a care pack, and when you— when it came to purchasing the Tim Tams, you went cheap. And surely that's the only thing I could think of, was that they were on sale. Why else would you get white chocolate and coffee Tim Tams.

Tommy: Careless, careless pack. She's, she's done a doozy.

Josh: Yeah, it's a fucking careless pack. It is the ultimate careless pack. But, um, we actually, when I was working at Envato, um, when people like, basically Envato is like a marketplace where people buy and sell stuff, and there was a bunch of people who had sold, you know, $50,000+ worth of items, $100,000+ items, $1 million+ 4 million. Like, you know, there's some people who had made $10 million selling one WordPress template. But anyway, we had this whole, uh, what was called like the Elite Program, where the people who were doing, um, the, you know, those high numbers would get rewarded and they would do a care pack. So at Envato, at any given time, there would just be hundreds of packs of Tim Tams, and somehow that converted from being something the elite authors, as they're called, would get when they reach certain milestones to that was just like our biscuit supply as well. So, I feel like, like what sort of business is offering Tim Tams as just like an everyday biscuit? I would be eating— There would have been a time where I would have been every day just munching, just snacking on a pack of Tim Tams.

Tommy: Amy, the company she works for, they were going through like $100 and something a week of Tim Tams, something ridiculous. And that's, yeah, if they're on offer, people are going to chow down on them. We went and filmed some stuff in Envato, and I, and I was appreciative of their selection. It was, uh, they had some Royal Royals, no, the ones with marshmallows in them.

Josh: The sort of dark, like, yeah, the thing called Royals. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Tommy: Yeah. Yeah.

Josh: I mean, they're not my favourite, but I'll still eat them. Well, that's where I'm bad. Like, I've got like a real low barrier to entry. Like, even, you know, the yellow, the green lollies, like, I am the one in the past who would just eat the shit ones. Just like I— Yeah, I'm sure that I got into licorice. Because I saw that there was a market of people not liking licorice, and so that there was a potential opportunity for me to get more.

Tommy: Mate, I mean, you're winning if you like those crappy shortbread biscuits in the variety pack that nobody eats. Like, if that's your thing, you've always got a biscuit.

Josh: Yeah, yeah, it's genius. It's, it's not ideal.

Tommy: Uh, it's my—

Josh: it's what else is— what is— what else is happening?

Tommy: Hey, yo, it's my birthday.

Josh: What, TJ? The connection isn't amazing.

Tommy: Yeah, but, um, what did you say? It was When you keep talking when I'm talking, it doesn't matter about the connection 'cause you're just talking over me.

Josh: No, no, like it's the reason I'm talking is because I'm not hearing you.

Tommy: Oh, you're not hearing me?

Josh: But I mean, no, but go on.

Tommy: Yeah, so birthday, a couple of days, you're gonna miss out. Did think about getting you up on Skype in the corner. People can just come say hi, you and Bree, just a few meet and greets on the laptop, but it's probably not happening. But I've been organising food because we're doing like a bit of sit-down dinner and catering and stuff. So I've had a bit of a realization. I've had some, I've had some bad experiences with doing set menus and birthdays in the past at restaurants because this one time, and I'm scarred from it. I think it was like 20th, 22nd birthday, and we went to this pizza joint. And my biggest peeve, like my biggest annoyance with set menus, is if they actually just let us 25 people order a pizza each, they would have probably made more money when we got some sides and stuff as well. And they wouldn't let us order a pizza each, and so they did this thing. And what annoyed me was Everybody was hungry by the end of it. So what had happened was they actually hadn't brought out many pizzas. They brought out like, you know, probably 5 less than they should have for how many people were there. And then people were ropeable and started getting a bit pissed and a bit rowdy. And so I've kind of had a bit of a, you know, a bit of a scar since then.

Josh: You triggered.

Tommy: Yeah, I'm definitely triggered. But I just had this realisation And I'm having—

Josh: If it's order more pizzas, I had that realisation probably at the age of 5. I've been living that mantra.

Tommy: Always order more pizzas. How many do we need? 4? Nah, 6. We can put them in the fridge.

Josh: You can always put them in the fridge. Not that it ever gets in the fridge, but it's always— that's my go-to. It's like, oh, you know, we'll have some leftovers. Yeah. And Bree's like, do you really? You've left a quarter of a slice. Do we really need to put the whole box in the fridge? I'm like, Okay, we'll just eat it now.

Tommy: So, I've kind of been organising this food with the woman downstairs from our office because we're doing it sort of here and it's going to be, you know, like awesome Mexican food. And so, I was kind of like—

Josh: You're going to have the trough of nachos.

Tommy: Yeah, well, we actually aren't going that now. So, we've gone with more of a like a banquet style, you know, two different meats, you know, bring your plate up, there's some awesome salads and sort of take it all. Oh, that's good. Yeah, it would be amazing. And I, and I've just felt, and I've had through this whole process, I've felt uncomfortable thinking that I'm going to get ripped off. And yeah, and so I, so that's my approach to it, which I don't like. It makes me, it ruins the experience because I don't want to think about this shit, but I can't help it at the moment. Anyway, she, she gave me, she gave me a bit of pushback on something, um, when I could, and and her giving me pushback on how much I was requesting gave me comfort in that when someone will say, no, no, no, that's not how it is, it's almost, I found comfort in that, that I was then pushing the boundaries on her side, 'cause it's this dance, right? Where it could be in business where you quote an amount and if they just take it, well, you don't know how far you could have pushed it, um, vice versa.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: And so I was like, fuck, all right, that's it. Now that I've seen the limit of where, where I can push this to—

Josh: I mean, what were you pushing? What were you pushing on? I want 2 troughs of nachos.

Tommy: That's exactly what I was pushing.

Josh: 2 troughs. It was really 2 additional troughs.

Tommy: Um, you got it.

Josh: 2 additional troughs.

Tommy: Smack bang, uh, troughs of nachos.

Josh: Uh, those nachos are very good though. Yeah.

Tommy: Yeah, but yeah, it was a good learning in that when someone gives pushback, you know their limit, um, and you— and it made me feel comfortable as the person that I thought I was on the receiving end of maybe getting ripped off based around my shit. But then it like gives you an insight into what's going on in their head. So I appreciate that. Now I can actually relax.

Josh: Yeah, I find it very hard when it comes to pushback. I feel like I, um Like, for instance, right now me being out at the lake rather than being at the Airbnb because the internet doesn't work. Last night I spent time with them fixing it, fixing their Wi-Fi, and I told them, hey, I need— I've got a business call, I'll need to use the internet at this time, blah blah blah, and it wasn't working. And so there was a part of me, you know, it's early morning here And there was a part of me which was like, okay, do I go and talk to them and do the whole fuck around, or do I just, you know, not, not bother them? And I think that sometimes, depending on the mood, I can give too much pushback, or I'll just like go really hard. So for instance, it's like the, the hotel room that we were meant to be getting that we didn't get, or whatever, at the last place. Versus this, where I think maybe it's because like I'm empathising with the person more because I was actually like had to go, you know, at 10:30 at night to their office and try and sort out their router and like say, "Okay, like let's disconnect the modem and the router and all that sort of thing." Did you feel good about the— So, you actually felt good about the pushback? You didn't feel like embarrassed that you'd stepped over the mark?

Tommy: Nah, nah, see, that's the thing. I had no sense of embarrassment. I thought, I'll kind of push it a little bit here, and the fact that you get a bit of resistance was a good thing because then you know the parameters.

Josh: How do you think she felt about it?

Tommy: Oh, I mean, if it's— it's the— I think it's, it's, uh, just— I don't know how she felt, but I think it's the cost of doing business. People, and it wasn't, it wasn't like outrageous, like we're having 20 more people and you have to now cater for them for the same price. It was like, if you can throw, you know, if you could also do some of these, that would be amazing. And then the pushback came. So it was very, it was very, um, you know, low fly. I don't know what that even means. Yeah, I just—

Josh: low, very low, low fly. It's a low fly.

Tommy: It was a low fly.

Josh: I thought you said low fly. Oh, maybe you said lo-fi.

Tommy: I thought I said lo-fi.

Josh: Yeah, I don't think that works either. Um, so how many people have you got? How many people have you got going to the party?

Tommy: Uh, 25. Uh, do we include—

Josh: how did you work out the list? Uh, you don't have to include me.

Tommy: No, no, we're not including you then, unless I get some beers. It was kind of last minute, so I had asked a bunch of people that couldn't come because they had family stuff on. The next day is Father's Day. Here in Australia, actually anywhere. Yeah, maybe— no, not anywhere, Australia, the first Sunday within September. So it's a, um, yeah, it's a busy time. But yeah, I think for me, getting older, I literally just want the people that I love being at, you know, at an event where it's, you know, about celebrating and just being around that good conversation. I'm looking forward to it. It's, um, yeah.

Josh: What's your tactic? Do you tend to— when it's your party, do you have to— do you feel the need to work the room or to sit on different tables and chat to people? Or like, what's your— what's the monologue in your head when you go to an event that you're hosting?

Tommy: Yeah, it's crept in, that monologue, and then I shut it out and just wing it on the night. I actually, I think it, I think I naturally do it, so I don't want to overthink it, but I almost do. I actually have literally thought exactly what you said, and I was like, all right, I'll say hi to everyone when we're there, and then whatever happens happens. The thing is, like, at a wedding, you, it's, it's like very much doing the rounds, but I think there were some people that I didn't speak to at my wedding, and I think it's just when you've got 100 people and, you know, you, you're having to go around, say hi to people. But, um, yeah, Amy, I think Amy didn't speak to her cousin for no other reason than it kind of— she just got lost in the night.

Josh: Um, did you not do like the, um, circle jerk thing at the end, like where everyone goes around the circle at the end or whatever? Is that a thing at weddings?

Tommy: I don't know. Yes, that's a Jewish wedding where people get up on chairs and, and, uh, dance around the circle.

Josh: No, not even that. I'm sure that like, because I've, I've No, it's not even that. I've filmed a few weddings, I've been to a few weddings, and at the very end of the, the night, there's normally like sort of a time where everyone's like lines up or whatever, and there's a big goodbye. What was the— for people who didn't, don't know, even though TJ and I are basically best mates now, I, uh, uh, wasn't invited to his wedding due to, uh, our relationship at the time. That sounds like we were fighting or that I was your ex. I was neither of them. But, um, uh, yeah, go on.

Tommy: No, I think what you're referring to is like the walkout where everyone sort of gets together, circles around, and then the couple come in and say, we're off to make love for the first time because that's what you don't have sex before marriage.

Josh: Yay. Is that what you said? Is that what you yelled out?

Tommy: No, no, that's what I think when I go to a really Christian wedding. It's like, that's definitely what's going on, going through their head. Let's get the fuck out of here.

Josh: Did you have like, um, I know friends who are really religious where the, um, the pressure is just like when they actually have waited to, to wait until they're married to have sex, and the pressure of the night is, um, crippling. Like the difference between someone who has already been there, done that, sorted it out versus this is the night that they have to make a speech but then perform afterwards. Yeah, it's completely different, hey?

Tommy: Yeah, I mean, that's the classic thinking of it, but I'm sure that's— yeah, I mean, most of the night most people go back and probably just go to sleep. It's too tiring. Weddings are exhausting when you have one. You've been working for it for months and then you're tired on the day. Amy and I just went home and went to bed. She was pregnant and we had a hotel room. We just snuggled.

Josh: It's lovely. Oh geez, that's the title of the episode. Um, my— when you just said snuggled, my ears did the ringing thing that it does when I get uncomfortable. Why? But, um, I don't know, just the way that you said it, I think. We just snuggled. But, um, I was listening to the, um, Maybe It's You podcast, uh, with, uh, Greg and Amira, uh, Berent, and that they, um, they have a book called, um, How to, How to, How to Have a Marriage That's Not Sucking or something like that. Anyway, they were talking to a couple, they're talking about how when people get engaged or, um, basically how they had this one couple on that was just, as soon as they got engaged, they would fight heaps more and they ended up doing two engagements. They ended up like realising it's like, we need to take a break from each other and then re-engaged. Did you, what was the things that you noticed when you went from boyfriend and girlfriend to being engaged? Did anything change?

Tommy: Uh, it's definitely a thought that just goes out of both your minds. So it's, it's not thinking. Like, I, I like it now because what's the next progression of, uh, our marriage? There's only, uh, going backwards, divorce.

Josh: There's only anal.

Tommy: All right, mate, when in Slovenia, Slovakia, geez, Slovenia, it's Slovenia.

Josh: Yeah, the, the do as the Europeans do. I don't— am I even in Europe right now? No.

Tommy: Um, yeah, no, nothing changed. I think it's just for me, and I know for Amy, it was like, it's just a thought that goes from your mind. You, you're together. It's, um, it's the, the commitment is official. Get a ring on it.

Josh: But what about— so you didn't feel any extra pressure? Because what these couples were talking about were the fact that when it was all done, all of a sudden there was a higher pressure to have bigger conversations or to work things out. And this was specifically on a couple who had, you know, hadn't known each other for that long before they got engaged, and then they got engaged and then they're asking those really big life questions. Do you feel like you had all those pre-engagement?

Tommy: Yeah, yeah, we moved pretty fast, talked about a lot of stuff early on. And yeah, I, I don't know, I think it would feel— maybe this is wrong, but it might feel huge if it maybe isn't the right time. Maybe it's not in alignment. Like, if you're overthinking something that, you know, there is— there's a two— there's multiple, um, ways of it actually playing out. But if if the reality is that you can find somebody where it kind of just works and you don't overthink it and you're loving them. That is, that is a possibility for humans. Doesn't mean it's—

Josh: but do you think— I don't know if that's the— I don't know if that's the reality. Like, I definitely, um, like, I feel like Bree and I are a married couple. The reason that we haven't necessarily gotten married is just because it's like it's a little bit more logistical in the sense of like, do we want to be like actually working out what we want that wedding or engagement and all that sort of thing to be? But like, yeah, I don't necessarily think that relationships are about being easy. I don't think that like if something's hard within a relationship, I don't know, I don't think that's a really reason to say this isn't the right relationship. I think that it's the ability to reconcile those issues because like even from what they were talking about in that podcast is it's like at the beginning, it's like super easy for the first 5, 6, 7 months. You're willing just to, you have no needs, you're just happy to go do, you know, you know, whatever. And then as you go along, all those sort of things change. And I think that even being on this trip and seeing every couple, you know, every second couple that we pass are having some sort of argument about their travels and what they're going to do. And that's the same conversations around like, well, I thought you wanted to eat that. If you want to eat something different, why didn't you just say? Yeah. You know, it's, yeah, that's a part of a relationship, don't you think?

Tommy: 100%. And I'm not saying that, none of that exists for me. It definitely does. Lots of hard times. But what I mean is when, if you're questioning some of the basics of the basic fundamentals of a relationship, you know, like it's probably more about maybe it's not right in the moment internally for you. But yeah, I mean the reality is we're so different, everybody and each relationship is different.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: But I just know from my experience of having multiple relationships where I just knew deep down that that one wasn't— if you, if you want to use the term 'the one'— or just, I just knew it. Yeah, it was restless or something. It just— I knew the future, which I've never felt like that with Amy. So it's, um, it's for me the sign that all the other stuff we'll be able to tackle if I've got that. If I've got no doubt in my mind that she is the person that I want to be with, then the other stuff we can deal, I can deal with.

Josh: Well, that's, I think that that's the thing, right? Like there's the fundamental things where it's like, okay, if you can't imagine this or that, if you can't imagine sort of, you know, developing together and growing together and being together, then that's obviously a fundamental thing of being in a long-term relationship. But, um, yeah, I think that maybe, you know, we, we spoke yesterday, um, about, you know, what we communicate on Instagram and all that sort of thing. And I think that maybe, um, you know, part of the issues, you know, that we're, we're seeing within society and mental health is because we're striving for some sort of perfection that doesn't exist. And we romanticise these things. We romanticise whether it be career, relationships. And I think that that can be really isolating for people when they're bombarded with this sort of message that, you know, you shouldn't feel this way, or, you know, if it's the one, you'll know. All of those things, I think, are romantic notions that aren't necessarily practical.

Tommy: Yeah, you're right. I think being sure though is, uh, so for instance, you could be with somebody and not really be sure that you should get married, and then they ask you to marry them and you say yes. It's kind of out of alignment with how you're truly feeling at the time, and so you fall down that rabbit hole, which I'm sure a lot of people have, and then you know, they get pregnant, whatever it be. I think if you, um, it's like, it's being honest with yourself on stuff and being able to know when the thing you think is honesty is just these blockages, like the pizzas at the restaurant for me. But it's like, I think, yeah, that's when you— if you can really work out um, the honesty and the dark spots, it's— I think, yeah, you're on the best trajectory to actually have a successful relationship because, yeah, it changes all the time.

Josh: Yeah. And, and because I think that some, some of the stuff can be destructive, right? Where it's like, if it's, um, uh, my mate Naysan, who's gone through a divorce, was always— would always talk to me about how He was— he felt that in this day and age people didn't give it a red-hot crack. So, when say relationships got tough, the default would be, "Okay, well, like this isn't working and we just need to like move on," type of thing. Versus realising when it's like, like imagine if within your career, like if we take sort of the romanticism out of it or whatever and just said, "Okay, just imagine it was a job." and every single time you had a conversation with your boss, you know, that you didn't like, or the company was doing something that you weren't necessarily sure on, like if every single time you just said, you know what, like, this isn't for me. And maybe that's what's happening at the moment. Maybe that's why people are only spending, you know, 12 months at a job and hopping from job to job because they can't see actually the bigger picture.

Tommy: There's benefit in holding in, you know, for a certain period of time, but it changes across time.

Josh: Well, the podcast, you know, like, do we, like, if we look at the podcast as we, you know, like to talk about most episodes, do we, you know, it hasn't been that easy, but, you know, Russ Keys sent a really nice email and he was talking about, he was worried that, I think he said like the alarm bells are on about the, me, my mood being sort of affected by how our episodes go. And he said maybe, you know, you should cut down or something like that. And I was thinking about it, it's like, the thing is that if we were to use the running analogy, Sometimes you have good runs, sometimes you have bad runs. It affects the rest of your day how that run is. But if you sometimes have bad runs, does that mean that you should stop running? My feeling is that it's like you take the good from the bad and you realise that the good that you get from something, like say doing this podcast, outweighs the moments, you know, of sort of negativity that you might feel. Yeah. Yeah.

Tommy: And all I'll say to Russ is, you know, you're not getting the text messages that I do from Josh. So you're just hearing the other side of it. No, no, no, we're all good. I did read that email and thought, I wonder what you'll say to that? 'Cause he was concerned about you. He doesn't give a shit about me. I love you, Russ. Yeah.

Josh: No, but I think that maybe this is probably part of the, you know, we talk about vulnerability and stuff like that. Maybe the, The unwillingness to talk about it is because I think it triggers a bunch of things with other people where it's like, you know, it's probably like, you know, say within mental, you know, the stigma with mental health. If you're at a workplace and then say, hey, I'm feeling this way, the business might have the obligation to say, okay, well, you're gonna have to get off the tools, you're gonna have to do this and that, and maybe that isn't actually the best thing for your mental health.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: And so, you know, having, you know, talking about this stuff, it's like, actually, I feel that about heaps of things. Like, I think that's just like the light and shade. It's not the— I definitely don't see it as the end of the world, but I think I definitely— there's an awareness, I think, that I'm trying to have with things that I think that a lot of people just don't necessarily connect the dots, which is like Why am I feeling like— what are the patterns that I'm feeling? How, like, how do I feel right now? Why do I feel like this? What happened? What was the first thing I did in the morning that may have affected how I'm feeling right now?

Tommy: Yeah, rather than just cracking a can of Monster and powering through and then cutting a piece of hose later in the day. It's, uh, I've said to you before that the, the reality of doing a podcast is 5 days a week is— it's super hard and sometimes really annoying. But definitely, um, I think about if I didn't do it— I go too cerebral, I think too much. It's almost like I need to get my word count out across the day to then feel better inside my head. Like, I have— because I know, like, we talked about creative blocks yesterday, and that's what happens, right? If I'm not— you said it— if you're not like the Solution to a creative block is to actually just do the thing because then you're back to what you said you couldn't be doing. And so, yeah, same with that.

Josh: Yeah, it's, I mean, it's a paradox. It's the thing that's, you know, creating pain is also going to create the happiness. And I actually think that within relationships too. And so, yeah, I think that when, like, you know, Bree and I have been together for nearly 11 years. And like, that's like, you know, the pain is what, you know, the darkness has brought the lightness and the, you know, having contrast and having sort of, you know, waves of, you know, different things. I think that that's what actually develops us rather than I think that maybe, you know, mainstream whether it's sort of mainstream communication or culture or whatever you want to call it, but there is this sense within social media that, you know, and just how we even speak as a protective mechanism, which is like, unfortunately, society has made it so that it's actually in your best interest to just say I feel this way, you know, all the, all the positive stuff, and to not give any glimpse of negativity. Because as soon as you give a glimpse of negativity, people think a glimpse means that they're going to unravel all of this other stuff, rather than the reality being, um, you know, you're just being real and you're just being honest.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: And, um, well, I think, I think that that's definitely something that I'm, I'm always concerned about is I think that I'm really honest and I want to be able to, you know, and you— Yeah, and I think that because the fact that the positivity comes from the negativity and all that sort of thing, that only talking about the positivity is being a bit disingenuous.

Tommy: Yeah, talking about the struggles. I think you would probably enjoy getting married then, 'cause there is, it's a whole new experience for your brain and your thinking and what you have to go through. It'd be probably super uncomfortable for you in terms of having a party, having to work out.

Josh: Well, I think that that's a thing, right? Like the marriage, weddings, all that sort of stuff for me, if it was just Bree, you know, Bree's my best friend and so it's like— Mate, what the fuck? You know, I feel— sorry, mate— and I feel I'm having a nacho trough with her today, but I feel most comfortable with Bree. I can be myself the most with Bree. And so if it was just a wedding with Bree and I, it'd be a piece of piss. The actual— the thing that makes weddings hard is working out whether people are getting fucking chicken or beef and like, where the fuck do you sit this person? And if I invite that, like, I don't— I just think that there's a trapping there, which is like, actually, Bree's not really— I think that it also depends on the type of families that you have and things like that. And I think it's maybe, you know, it's weddings, I think, You know, for some people, these experiences where it's like, okay, they've got these huge families and, you know, we want to bring them all together and all that sort of thing. But like, we don't necessarily like the way that we've been brought up. You know, whilst we love our families, it's a different— it's not some fairy tale family thing where it's like, ah, you know, just chatting to our siblings all the time and going on fishing trips and shit like that.. And so, I think that weddings lend themselves to that, you know, and we don't necessarily have that. You know, if the family dynamic might be a bit different, then, you know, a wedding isn't necessarily as easy.

Tommy: Yeah, well, pushing back on what is normal is becoming popular for people. They say, "Oh, well, everyone does a wedding. We don't want to do one." But then if you have the awareness of, you know, of your mindset is, I realise that this is what everyone does, but if I do it and my thinking is around, I want to experience this thing that everyone else does, and then I can take from that whatever I think, and the experience is whatever it was. But I mean, from doing a wedding, Josh, it's a lot of work and pretty painful. So, probably recommend not to. I've been there, mate. Let's just get a trough with Brie today and forget about it.

Josh: Yeah, it's interesting. Like, I think that, you know, for a lot of people it makes sense. And it's the, you know, like I even, I feel the pressure with like people like my mum at the moment where it's like she's getting the pressure from all her friends, which is like, oh geez, they've gone on a big trip. They must be, you know, getting engaged. And the thing with that is the rebel in me is just like, I'm not doing this for anyone else but for Bri and I. And so—

Tommy: And all for content.

Josh: The thing is, yeah, exactly. And my YouTube channel. But yeah, but I just have so much pushback to all of that because I'm like, you know what, like the thing is that the cost of the wedding, the realities around who's going to be coming to it, all of that stuff, that's gonna lie on us. No one else is footing the bill for the wedding. No one else is gonna work out who's gonna get invited. And so, I just think that, yeah, it's very easy when you are going to be the guest of a wedding to say, "Hey, mate, fuck it, just sort it out. Just have the wedding," versus the Yeah. And so, like, I think that that's part of it where it's like I've— my pushback is in the expectations around what it will be. And I think that probably like if, you know, when Bree and I get married, it's not going to be like a normal wedding and we'll do it our way. And it might not even involve people. Like, I don't know. Yeah.

Tommy: Well, I think the title of this episode is We've gone full Thinker Girls.

Josh: Yeah, it's got— yeah, I'm— which one are you?

Tommy: Um, well, Stacey is shorter, so who's shorter out of you and I?

Josh: Uh, I think it depends with the hair. I think that, uh, they're very similar. I feel like I'm— yeah, look, let's not play that game. I think we're about equal height, so, um, but I think that, um, I'll be Stacey. And you can be Christie. I think potentially I— Stacey just had a wedding in New York.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: Which now that she's done that, that rules out Bri and I doing it, obviously, because I need to— Well, we're going to— #BeARebel.

Tommy: We're going to New York very soon. So I don't know.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: Maybe we can recreate.

Josh: We'll see what happens. Yeah. Maybe we could do it, the Daily Talk Show. Yeah, exactly. It's the Daily Talk Show, everyone. I'm, uh, I'm off to go back to my Airbnb and, um, uh, get this episode up. And, uh, TJ, I'll see you tomorrow.

Tommy: See you guys.