#162 – Creative block/

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Cross face

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conversation sometimes worth recording with Josh Johnson and Tommy jacket. It's a daily Talk Show Episode 162. Tommy jacket, what is cracker lack, and you've called me on a new number.

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So many a number. It was, it was a successful hunt for a SIM card, which has become your life every other day. Yeah, I'm,

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I've got more SIM cards and a drug dealer.

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Congratulations on getting a new video out on your YouTube channel.

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Oh, yeah, that's it. That's a good one. Let's say it's a good one. It's a good one.

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Well, I didn't think I would have any content. And He's, uh, he's thrown up a topic.

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It's what will you become quite distant from depends. I think I've had this weed thing at the moment where I feel quite removed from some of the stuff I do. Because we're trying to do so much. Yeah. And so it's like some of our episodes, you feel you don't really feel anything about anything about feeling numb.

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You feel a bit numb? Because you you moving on? Yeah, I guess it's it's a bit I would I have actually been feeling at the moment, which I first want to get your thoughts on Creative blocks? What do you think? Like, what's your what's your take? Before I kind of because I've had a bit of thinking about this recently. I think

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it's

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the the hard thing is that I think, I think that they definitely real they're completely I think creativity relies on the mind. And so what I think that it sort of comes hand in hand with a bunch of other stuff as well.

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So for me, I think that even, you know, creatively at the moment like this, there's a creative block, which is the almost our and willingness to get in the state that we need to be in to be creative.

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And no, I definitely feel like I've been in that place. And I think that the best way to get out of a creative block

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is to do something to make sense. Yeah.

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To create, which

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I think is counter to some of the, you know, the feedback or the advice which is, you know, remove yourself from the thing. What, yeah, yeah, totally.

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Well, yeah, I've kind of felt like I, in terms of my client work that I've been doing no problem, I feel like a dialing it and doing some really creative and well made an executed, you know, projects. But then when it comes to my personal stuff outside of what we do every single weekday on this show, which takes a fair bit of effort in terms of brain power, we show up, I think, I don't think I don't feel like it's effort to show up and do this with you

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as much as I used to in the early days, because it's now just become our habit. But it definitely does zap, you know, some creative power, I guess, from you, if you're looking at it as like a you've got a bank of X amount. But then yeah, just with with my other stuff with my personal videos, I went down this slippery slope. And I posted up a video for the first time in a little while.

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But this I think you can get it can. So what I basically have come to the other side is why I was looking at a creative block. And when I felt I was thinking that he's bullshit, like, the block is bullshit. And because you do you go down this hole of feeling like you're, you can either go, I'm going to create a buck, and then you start looking at excuses as to why or why it's happening. And what is it a walk, do you think? What is it to you, it's for me, the way it sort of comes out is like this, I feel almost like

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paralyzed in my ability to create and I 100% know that I can and I, I could create, but it becomes this thing where I think it gets worse as you don't act on it. And so I've been chipping away on a bunch of videos. But the the thing that the spiral that you go down is like, I started getting more critical, and I started looking at things. And so what I've come to the other side is I put out a video yesterday. And it's and it's really, really beautifully shot. And, you know, there's lots of things but I just went down this slippery slope of questioning my ability. And it's like, classic creative person, just like I'm not, you know, I'm not good enough. Not that specific saying, but essentially sort of, like saying that, like all these the stories not good enough, and he start criticizing every little element of it. But if you it's a resistance, yeah, it's, it's all this resistance within you to do the thing of put it out which it's, it's Yeah, it's, it's this torturous endeavor that I feel like I'm on but I feel like putting out things that aren't perfect is where it's is the the when because I think half like I there'll be so many people out there that are creating stuff and not putting it out because it's not good enough. And my battle that I have is with stuff not not being right and may then not wanting to put it out or don't want to call it perfect perfectionist. But it's like, the challenge for most people is actually just getting something pricing, making that making the thing and then just getting really putting it out there. And so for us, you messaged me yesterday about the early days of this podcast. And in some of the episodes I forgot the name of the podcast that we even created.

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But there's a reason why I'm the one that intros the show. Now,

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let's say easier that way. No, I remember the name of the show. But there was I had someone comment on one of my videos video yesterday. Yeah. And it's so funny. It's like people just waiting the court in the corners to just press your buttons and all they're not or you just totally thinking so the comment was like,

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all you finally post I finally did, it's a miracle that you've posted.

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So yeah, I was like, fuck it triggered. So triggered by that I'm not in a bad way. It's like, no, you're totally right. But

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it's a weed. It's a weed battle. That guy Dan mice put out a video where he was like, talking about a creative block was something that he had, and I and I find that I just become like, nom, I just want to watch Netflix. It's this weird thing you ever you felt about this, I think on this trip. It's been the weirdest experience of highs and lows, like the the happiest moments, and then also the feeling of not being fulfilled creatively. And in the sense of I think that what I've come to realize is that potentially the only time my mind you isn't thinking about a million things at once. ease when I'm editing when I'm editing. Like, I only thought about this yesterday, when I'm editing what I'm doing is I'm connecting dots. I'm like looking along a story. And I'm finding and I'm saying okay, this could go with this. And maybe I could bring this with that. And when I when I'm not in front of an edit suite. When I'm just in the real world. I'm doing that with everything. I'm connecting dots with everything. And especially when I'm not editing I think that it can be destructive as well. where like, turns into overthinking and then thinking are like just rabbit holes. Like way you and I spoke for an hour and a half before you went to bed last night. Do you dream about me from all those conversations

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I dreamt about selling one remember now it wasn't either. So once I got sucked in

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the know but I I am just going down rabbit holes. I think when I've got creative

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blocks I remember hearing something around what

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procrastination is and what it is is it's around when we do work

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you know we like working we and we don't like getting stuck right and the creative lock is essentially getting stuck and then what we try and do is we find some other thing to do to get unstuck and so for me I can go down these crazy rabbit holes where I did maybe five hours of research after we started today on the show dr setups yeah yeah so and so I've got like all like I went through and looking at different prices and configurations and YouTube review like reviews on staff and the realities that I've got a deadline for an edit that I'm working on which I'm really loving and yeah the last three hours before we started recording this I've just been so smashing it out because I've told

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a you know a client that I'm going to have it done for them yeah yeah it's a it's a constant battle and Bri

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you can I can see the frustration with Bray because we've been she's been listening to a podcast with what's the name Gretchen

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Gretchen Rubin and she's a

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she's got a book she's got like these different categories that you can be in so you could be an upholder or a rebel and all these different oblige, all these different question all these different categories that you could fit on done. And I think that I fit under the rebel slash slash obliges. So I am when it comes to yet. Like I'm pretty rebellious, I likes of doing things on my own timeline. But I'm also an obliged and the sense of, if I've told someone that I'm going to deliver them something like the amount of pain that I feel. Yeah, trying to, like, I need to make that happen. I'm very similar.

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But I think about the, the, the, the feelings I have now and then the feelings the feeling that it gives me once I actually put it out such the reward for me is like, mostly in just the completion of something and pressing send or putting it out on something because it doesn't go away like I don't think is this thought that people have and I maybe it's just me Tell me if you do but I look at people who are you know, successful or have been channel you know, doing well online I think are they must have it all sorted out, right. But then I

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but then I think about myself and I say that it doesn't really change whether I'm having the success in the videos that I'm putting out or I'm not it's like I still feel this pain bright it's like I'm pushing through it it's like I'm a fucking seek out I think creatively sickos

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I think it's the exact same probably feeling that people get when they go for a run it for people who aren't necessarily cold themselves creative or can't relate to this, maybe I can relate to ease being, you know, going for a run every day, and then maybe going on holiday for two weeks, not running. And then going on that first run, you know, like the going out get and the feeling the resistance that you feel when you you know, before you do it versus when you do it.

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But But I think that the the quote that I love is that time is the fuel of fee. So with all of these creative projects, if you think about, you know, the awesome video you put up yesterday on

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your YouTube channel,

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you know, you, you know, filmed that video months ago. And so the amount of agony that you and feed that you felt was so much greater because you didn't just do it then and then you didn't get done the week off. And so you've you've managed to drag out the pain without necessarily the reward. And I think that that's why I love working in sprints. If a client wants a job done, I want to be able to say, Okay, well, let's film it tomorrow. And let me edit it next week. Or this week. Yes,

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that's how I love working. Yeah,

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I totally agree. There's something about like, I've even thought about, like, safe, I haven't filmed so if I haven't got a video to film today, I'm like, What can I use of all I've got from, you know, a while ago that I could create into something to put

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out and I feel that that that feels really painful. And, and what's good about this show is like, you know, we recorded we put it out regardless of how good of these and it's definitely it's a learning process. Because I think that may be the highs and the lows that I've been experiencing. while I'm away has been connected to the podcast, if I have a good show, especially when we're doing the shows, you know, in my morning, we have a good show. I feel great all day. If we don't have a good show. I'm thinking about it. I'm deconstructing it. I'm thinking about you know, like I think we've probably had

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I think there was one show that we were recording when I was in Poland where I was just like, I don't know if we can if I can use this one. I think just go to a one of the pre recorded and we we got through it. But like that's real tension. That's real resistance. That's real, like getting pissed off and just being like a copy fucked today.

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Yeah, yeah, well, maybe it's like, so you say your analysis is sometimes how I feel about the show changes my you know how I'm how I feel about life in this present moment. It's like, maybe maybe it isn't reflective. Because sometimes it's not true. We feel like we could have a show where we're arguing with each other people actually liked that, that what people are saying opposing views on things and that's good for them. So it's, it's this weird thing. It's like, what what we're experiencing what other people are experiencing. And that's across the board the pain that goes into a painting for an artist and then people love it. But they were severely depressed at the time they created that paint it Yo, you know, music

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Yeah, I mean, that's the thing. It's like, the saddest song like I enjoy listening to songs that are sad. Or you think about the

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pine that you know, an artist might go through writing a certain song or having an experience but it's a I think that is probably something that more and more people are going to feel especially as we're all becoming mini content creators.

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Yeah. Michelle from the shameless podcast she she wrote a blog post about her her realizing hash it being painting sort of her Instagram as being sort of this positive how good's my life and created this blog post, which talked about some of the struggles?

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I think that the the challenge with it is that we're around

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where I think that we want to be more honest, there's a desire to be more honest. But I wonder whether we're ready as a society to be honest, because I know that if I say people being too negative on social media, that's also a bit of a turn off.

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Yeah. And so are you thinking about should you sharing this stuff, or if you would share negative things, but sharing the lows as well as the lies is that we say, I think that the hard thing is that to your point, if there's not a single truth,

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maybe the thing that we're experiencing isn't actually the truth. And that's just the experience we're having right now. Doesn't make sense to then be posting it online? Is it is it worth communicating it externally, if we're not even sure around that what the truth of the situation is, or how you feel?

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And so for me, it feels like if you're feeling if you're feeling negative, and you post on social media, hey, I'm feeling this way. I'm negative right now. Do you think that that's going to lead to a positive outcome or a negative outcome?

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Um,

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well, that you can't argue with someone's feelings, because that's a fact for them in the moment. It's like, someone's always like, you know, if you if you're in an argument, or you're with the boss or something, I remember the ego so I can use us to feelings. This is making me feel this way, because they're not gonna go feel. I know, I quit. No,

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well, no, I'm not. Well, it's my feeling said and I can argue with it.

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It's a

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Have you ever done sort of negative posts on online?

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I mean,

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I'm not just about posting great stuff. Like, I look at me, I'm so happy. I don't. It's not that I just, I just have chose not to put up things that are darker. I don't know. Yeah, I'm not

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a problem. Like, how do we fit you are an example. Right? This is the thing it's like, if we're, if we're all taking a part of our lives and putting it online. And then I guess, and people then judging themselves against that. Yeah,

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you know, I think I've got it this, it's about the platform for me. So it's about the, the vehicle and the vehicle for me to share any of that stuff is, is a long form podcast, because I'm not it would take me days to write up some kind of post to put out on Facebook. And it wouldn't even be the way I'd ever do something where I'd share some feelings, which is permanent, like for me, like the putting in like, You should have told that before. You just posted about how you had a taco and said, I'm not in 2003, and I going to get tacos?

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You writing that some way because I'm sure

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No, just say the most generic thing and put it as a status and Josh didn't 2007

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but there's definitely a I've had I've definitely had the desire since being away where I'm like, maybe social media isn't for me. Maybe I'm Jason file, Dr. Jason Fox, who we've had on the podcast, this great email where he sort of listed his thoughts on social media. And yeah, I think that there is a I've I'm spending why less time on fight. I rarely go on Facebook. Now.

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I would much prefer to not have to use messenger on Facebook at all. I'd love to have like a personal auto responder just to tell people Hey, I don't check this. Send me an email. But

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I yeah,

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I've definitely had thoughts of light where I'm like, I don't know if I'm actually getting much out of posting. And I don't know whether other people getting stuff out of it. And have you posted. Yeah, or add of just like, I don't know, like, I mean, how do you feel when you scroll on Instagram?

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Oh, yeah. Pretty Pretty numb. Pretty.

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Yeah.

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thoughtless I just

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it's probably I'm doing it in a time where I'm just wanting to sort of zone out which is you know, you're like a zombie just scrolling up and not really caring it's that's what it's like for me. But what do you think about people who say if you were to say you're looking at D Avella who's creating I guess thoughtful content podcasts videos about really, you know, specific subjects that people are thinking about? Do you think he do you think if you were doing that model for you, and you chose the platforms, where you would put out what you thinking, so it's not just Facebook statuses, or Instagram posts, it's more thoughtful, meaningful

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videos or

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things that occurred coming from you, I guess, and that was your country, right? So yes, you might be contributing to it. But ease I wonder one, whether resonates, you know, with with PayPal, and to like, whether their algorithms are designed to actually prioritize that type of content, you know, what sort of stuff is Instagram actually showing people? And yeah, I just, I don't know, I think that, like, for me, this is why I do love the podcast. I love the idea that people can just subscribe. There's no sort of meddling with it from any other platform. Because, you know, I've read a quote that's going to be in the the next issue of off screen magazine, which is

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it is it by my friend, Kai Brock. And he he posted this post, and it basically said,

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what we read what we can show him,

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you know, the media that we can show basically determines how we think what we think about. And

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if that's the case, then we really need to be thinking about the algorithms around Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, because if they're controlling what we consume, they're controlling what we think. Yeah,

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yeah, they like that.

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You think about you scrolling on Instagram right now,

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my post, I appreciate it.

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I was just saying, I'm having tacos for lunch today. And it's a real 2018 progressive. But no, you're right. I think also, what I feel about this stuff is what I what what I say, you know, I love making videos. And it's probably the thing that I like, most out of everything. It's the most poignant with the most rewarding, I find the most pleasure in it. But then there's this, there's this reality of a way you lend up what will end up working for you. So if it's say, could be the podcast for us, where it's like, the podcast, I do it because it's enjoyable. It's not, it's not the thing that I love most in this world. Yeah, but it's, it's definitely something that I, I never have feelings of, I don't want to do this, this isn't something for me. So then it's like, you end up doing something that isn't

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it's not the main thing. Well, I think that that's the that's the interesting thing with this podcast is, it's like, I don't feel like the thing that stretched like, I think that if we were doing this as a weekly show, I don't know if we would have maintained it. Because the thing that's created I think that you actually need resistance to be creative. And so when something's too easy, I don't think that the resistance there. And then sometimes we commit to too many things, or we take on a project that's too big, and the resistance is so strong, that it's hard for it's paralyzing. I think that that's when things like creative block happens. So I think that for us if we find this really easy, but I think that what we've been able to do is we've found tension and resistance through doing having to do this remotely like you and I, being in different countries right now has created so much more resistance than it would be if we were just in a room together, which is then I think, actually kept it going at a nice pace.

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Yeah, definitely. It's, I actually find that the challenge, right, so it's, it's not you move past the showing up to actually talk to then be a guy that challenge I was just to show up

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the challenges to get up in the morning 5:30am and getting the car when it's freezing and talk to these so who's you know, in summer in Europe,

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and it really stinks and that's, that's, you know, I'm getting through this. Yeah,

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I mean, that there's like, there's a bit of truth there, which is like, it's not always, um, I think that the interesting part of it, too, and this is what happens with social media is like your rum. We're monetizing ourselves or our mood or our ability to have conversations and I think like high image describes it with human Andy is like, they weaponized their friendship. And by doing that, there's compromises that made within the friendship. It's not the same as just a normal friendship.

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And so I think that that's a that's interesting, but I think that the big question that I asked myself, which goes down the big rabbit hole, especially when I have a creative block is I asked what's all this fall?

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I think that would,

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that would tell me that and how other rabbit hole because then you almost have this out clause of going or

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a video for YouTube, it doesn't really mean anything in the scheme of things. But then it's in the little nuances of the process, the struggle, the reward, and the creative output, that actually is the reward and that's maybe where it's worth it. But But what what who do I What do I care about someone writing it comment on a video not I don't really give a shit it's not changing my world. I've actually I've lost made its box the question, right? It's the same thing that, you know, am I mentioning that maybe it got like, the podcast got a bit boring like that. Just planting that seed,

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even though you know, as creatives as you create more and more work, you're able to identify stuff. But I think that when there's a level of truth, or when it I think the buttons are the ones that are already activated within our minds. So you're already thinking about I said, I was going to do 100 videos this year, I'm not going to reach 100 videos. But I still that doesn't mean all or nothing, I still want to post and so you post this video, and then someone calls you out for not posting that much and it it triggers that button. And so I think that it's definitely

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I think the reality is that most people online who are commenting or just being reactive and they're not empathizing to the actual process of making and it's as much about them and their frustration of not understanding why they can't show up every day and you know, that comes out you know, in a comment to you yeah,

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I think when you have these conversations and you and you see people trying to give advice on this stuff online, it's like can be so frustrating you know, he's the

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when people are trying to sell a process to

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have success in a space like video or podcasting it's like there's such a stench of bullshit yeah less stench of you, you don't know what's right for everybody you can only in this space where it is so new, all of this all of these creative endeavors and these platforms it's all so new in the scheme of things so no one really has an idea but if I bought my thing is why it's only 995 to 10 steps for success as a podcast

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now I'm Jackie I think the thing is that it's a whilst the platforms and new the experiences a human what we're talking about that it's like the human condition and it actually you know, brings up a much bigger question than what is it to be human and the thing is, I've been thinking about this a lot lately but a lot of people in our life that we care about a going to die

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and we're going to be going to their funerals and there's going to be hard phone calls hard conversations you know, and that's all still to come and that's that's a guarantee and so I think that when there's the guarantee that there's we're going to experience that in their life The question then isn't how do I avoid it but it becomes how do I cope with it how do I turn it into art How do I turn it into a productive life and you know that's the sort of stuff that I think that I've been thinking about is it's like okay this is got let's let's have acceptance in this shits going to happen and now what what what we're doing now

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with Stephen doc is

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a little bit doc isn't it listening and may cause I can hearing about everyone around them going to die

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Josh traveling Europe could be having the time of his life but he's just gone so

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doc so it's how I roll

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good I like the I like these conversations because it's I definitely don't have sheet figured out yeah I'm figuring shit out but that's what life is a constant figuring of shit out yeah

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and we haven't seen as much control we don't even have much control of it too like I think that the once we accept the fact that shits going to happen no matter what.

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Then I think it changes things as well. Yeah, yeah, go to daily talk show everyone. That was a we manage just if I can refund one little thing they're all about your blood. a YouTube video. People should go watch it.

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Yeah, thanks.

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It's going to invite

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at least at least put a comment on the Josh

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that's guys like David did you because I didn't say that. I don't see the actual just Yeah, my the man I get a message when you've put a video up. Mike, can you just go and comment on that things?

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Do I go?

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No. No. I think the last one I did was with jack Paar. He's

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talking about cryptocurrency so it's been it's been a while since I've done a post

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yeah youtube.com forward slash Tommy jacket check out he's he's a video and yeah happy wins everyone and we will see you tomorrow feel free to send us an email high at the daily talk show.com How do you get out of your own creative blocks and yeah what we completely wrong Are we being way too fucking negative about stuff we have we lost the plot place and just a name. I'll have it

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go on say guys.