Talking hip hop with Josh

Tommy: Wait a minute! Crossface, the Daily Talk Show, a conversation sometimes worth recording with Josh Janson and Tommy Jackett.

Josh: It's a Daily Talk Show episode 141. Tommy Jackett, feeling good, back at it. That, that's great. You're in, you're in your office.

Tommy: Yeah, unbelievable. Like this time yesterday, I was absolutely fucking nowhere. And today I'm just killing it. Just back at it.

Josh: Did you listen back to hear what you sounded like vomiting?

Tommy: No, I listened back to the audio that I sent you so I could only hear one side of it. So I listened to the bit and I was very surprised. I don't know what you put in, what you put in the final edit, but I listened to the bit where I ran to the toilet and yeah, it was, Very graphic.

Josh: Well, the funny thing was I got pulled, it's good having Bri here as sort of a producer for me because I was editing the show and I brought up the volume. So it was like equal to our normal vocal volume of you vomiting and Bri's like, "It's too much." Just put it to how it was. And so what people were hearing was an sort of unprocessed sound of you vomiting. I didn't increase it or anything.

Tommy: Okay, I thought you were gonna cut it out, but that's all right. I appreciate that.

Josh: We put a little bit in there.

Tommy: The rule of the show was we do this without editing, so if you're listening for the first time, this is very much unfiltered. Um, but I have been—

Josh: I also led— I also led with the, um, on the title with our first on-air vomit, which was funny because I, um, I've been doing some backend work of some potential guests that we'll be getting in the US, which I'm very excited about. Later in the year. And it's annoying when they respond back and start interacting and say, "Hey, like, oh yeah, what's the Daily Talk?" And the first thing they're going to see is our first on, they're gonna think we're this super wacky duo. You know?

Tommy: Oh God. But we got a message from Russ Keys. He said, "Get well soon, Tommy." So that bit's for me. "Love your dedication. Always be contenting," he said. Solid.

Josh: ABC, Leon Churgren.

Tommy: ABC, Leon Churgren. Uh, and he, and he just pulled us up. So we're closing the loop that we didn't even know we opened this loop. But he said, 'PS, mastectomy is the removal of a breast,' and that's what the word I thought that I said. But he said, 'Vasectomy is the procedure for male sterilization,' and that's the word I actually said instead of mastectomy. Mess.

Josh: Well, I know what a vasectomy is, but I feel like in the moment, um, yeah, I don't think we need to justify it. We fucked up.

Tommy: We fucked up. Yeah.

Josh: Did you feel a bit silly? I felt a little bit silly.

Tommy: I was actually pissed off at whoever came out with those because, mate, they're very close.

Josh: Yeah, I guess 'emi' means the removal of something.

Tommy: All right, mate, don't open this even further.

Josh: Can that just be our word of the day? Because I haven't done any research. Word of the day, people, you've You've got two, there you go.

Tommy: So I didn't tell you, I wanted to talk about this yesterday. Over the weekend I went to Jules's house, Jules Lundin. He messaged me on the Friday. He said, mate, Saturday I'm gonna have a binge YouTube watch, watch some Casey Neistat, bunch of others. You wanna come over?

Josh: What a cutie.

Tommy: I know.

Josh: That's a really cute thing to do.

Tommy: Inviting me over for a little cute little binge watch.

Josh: No, it's almost the equivalent of saying, hey, do you want to come? I'm going to read the newspaper this morning. Do you want to just come? We'll share a page each. It's pretty, it's pretty cute and random.

Tommy: That's all we do. That's you and I, Josh, not Jules and I. Um, but no, he'd never really watched Casey's stuff. He knows who Casey is, and if you don't know, Casey is a big YouTuber, lives in New York, got nearly 10 million subs. He's a, um, yeah, filmmaker. Ah, that was BMAC. Sorry, sorry guys.

Josh: That's okay, BMAC getting in the show. It's been a while since we've mentioned BMAC. Yeah, g'day BMAC.

Tommy: He's just messaged through. He always messages while we're doing the show, and now he's asking how many listeners do you have now on the podcast. Fuck off, mate.

Josh: Tell him to look at the, yeah, Instagram story.

Tommy: Yeah, watch Josh's Insta stories. By the time this comes out, it'll probably be expired anyway. So I went over to Jules's house and we're watching these YouTube videos and it was on a big LCD screen. And so, you know, it's not like you're watching them through your phone and stuff. So there's already like, you know, the quality you've— and I've never really experienced this because you've always been watching YouTube on—

Josh: yeah, YouTube—

Tommy: high definition televisions. So it's a different experience as it is.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: But, you know, I'm a big fan of Casey and a bunch of other filmmakers on YouTube. But in this moment, I had this realisation where I was like, it's— his stuff isn't that impressive. And I love his stuff, but what, what I mean by that is, in the setting of sitting down to have a purpose— what purpose viewing of YouTube content that someone has never seen and he's heard how impressive they are— it didn't feel like it was impressive at all. But what I realised was, and I don't mean as in he can't tell a story, he can't use a camera. I just mean what I kind of worked it out to be was, and I had this like penny drop moment, and it was like the narrative over the long term of someone's channel and the buying you get with their journey from, you know, a few subscribers through to 10 million subscribers is so, so what adds to the value of their and the greatness of their content. And so like, I kind of left and I was going, ah, that wasn't as good as what I thought in my head. But what I brought it down to was—

Josh: It's a classic case. It's a classic case of having a, it's like you're bringing a mate to your favourite band's concert. And there's that you're wearing all of that sort of expectation. You want them to enjoy it. But then also you're viewing, it's like you're viewing them on a different, in a different setting. So, it's like your favourite band being at the AFL Grand Final.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: And so, it's like, it's a completely different setting. So, did you notice the quality was different as well? Or was it mainly just the buy-in that people get from watching a lot versus just a single app?

Tommy: Yeah, I think the quality, it stands on itself. It's a bit, it's not TV quality. In terms of the production value. But I think this, it stands on its own, but I think it's definitely just like what I really was thinking about was that long narrative that you're creating versus each individual video and how amazing they are for each individual video. So it was like for what we do, it's like this long-term thing that we're creating where people jump on board and they support us and pat me on my back when I'm vomiting. But then if you're just listening to a standalone or watching one video and you have no idea of anything, it's like you don't need— A bit lost. Yeah, you're a bit lost and not every piece of video needs to be this kind of, you know, you're not explaining everything that's going on. So it's like you're creating a bit of this buy-in factor to go, okay, what's he talking about there?

Josh: It's the equivalent of Jules never seeing a Pixar film and then being like, okay, we're gonna watch Toy Story 3. Yeah. He doesn't have the buy-in to Woody. He doesn't get the importance of all this shit, right?

Tommy: Yeah, yeah. And so yeah, that's, that's true. And we were talking about like, I think it's like probably ingrained in us too, when you sit down to watch a TV, so like a big television, you're ex— you get this experience and you have over your life of seeing a movie or a TV show, something really highly produced. So I think it changes the factor. So maybe that played into the thought of maybe this isn't as good as I thought, because usually you're consuming this content like small screens on your phone.

Josh: I mean, what does it mean to be good?

Tommy: Yeah, yeah. And yeah, I guess, um, in— I think it's, I think it's the thing that I felt that was missing in that for Jules, and that was that over time factor. I think that contributes to being good. It's not just each individual video that you're putting out, because some of them aren't.

Josh: It's the characters that are developing. Like, if you think about even people will watch videos on YouTube or on Twitch of people just playing video games. And so you've got to think about like, what is the interest factor there? And I think that it still plays into a lot of the things that happens in film and television, but on an even greater level, which is this— you're getting— it's almost just hours of spending time with them and understanding the characters and understanding this person hates this thing within the game. And when it comes, it's going to be a great reaction.

Tommy: I showed him some Will Smith's vlogs and it was the same thing. I was like, "Fuck, man, you gotta cheque out Will Smith. I love his stuff." And then I was like, "Oh, actually." But I still love them and I don't think they're bad, but it's like, I definitely sell, you definitely sell retrospectively in something harder than what it actually is. But I think it's okay. But when we spoke about something for someone like Will Smith, And I was saying how cool it is that there's this celebrity, he's like such an uber celebrity and he's now doing YouTube content, which like is, and Jules said the comparison was like when Kiefer Sutherland, who was an actor, went to TV show when he did 24. And that was like a massive step for, 'cause movie stars weren't doing TV shows. And then he was one of the first to go from the movie to the TV show, and like people were criticising him as, you know, as it was happening. But luckily it was super successful for him. And then you see all these trends.

Josh: I haven't been able to connect with the Will Smith stuff thinking about it. I think that it's just too, like maybe there's an unrelatability to him where, and you sort of get the sense of it's a fish out of water. Story in some regards where it's like he's, you know, even seeing him go and see Casey and all that sort of thing, there's— it just feels— when people— what I find interesting is you move someone from a different— to a different context, even like what you're experiencing, which is like seeing something on a TV screen with a friend versus watching something on the mobile phone, what you're willing to deal with is completely different. Do you like the Will Smith stuff?

Tommy: Yeah, it's okay. I love Will Smith. So I'm a big fan of him and I just love how out there he is and how famous he is. I love that sort of narrative of this guy I grew up watching on TV in these massive movies. And then I was watching one the other night called Focus that he was in and shout out to Rob Taylor, my mate. Robbie Taylor from Sheriff Longmire. He's in that film with Will Smith. He plays this really outrageous Australian guy who swears a lot. It's hilarious. He's in it. But yeah, so just seeing this guy who you grow up with, is a massive movie star, then doing this stuff, he seems more accessible. But then we were talking about like people who moved to Hollywood. Imagine all the people that moved over to Hollywood wouldn't touch like their own, you know, YouTube content, or, you know, create— try to create some sort of profile online as a personality when they're trying to, you know, become a movie star. They're trying to position themselves in this higher echelon. And now it's like, I think these kind of guys— Will Smith is giving people permission who are wanting to get into the space of doing what he does to then just build a brand through their own YouTube content as well. So it's, it's not like—

Josh: and it doesn't— and you've got to accept the fact that it doesn't always translate. I think there's probably a bunch of people who are even maybe authors, they've written books, you would think they've got like a great, um, sort of tone of voice and their style and their, their messages are great. And then I even felt that a little bit with, um, it was an adjustment, me watching the masterclass with Malcolm Gladwell, because you've got someone who's like quite, you know, super articulate in his writing, you know, with, um, uh, The Tipping Point and Outliers. He wrote those books, David and Goliath. And, um, then you see him in video and you forget that, uh, the people who write books can be these odd quirky characters who are like, like that sort of vibe. He was like, at first I was like, oh man, he's so nervous. And then Before you know it, I'm like into it, and I'm like, I understand. And what it was was his voice, what I was expecting him to be. And I guess even listening to him on the audiobook form where you have written material versus improvisational talking to a point is a completely different craft.

Tommy: So you're seeing how he's thinking actually is 'cause he's having to just say what's on his mind. So he's—

Josh: Well, he was darting. And in some regards, like you look at "Outliers" and all these books and what he's doing is he's taking storeys from all different parts of the world and he brings it together and he shows similarities and create storeys around it. And if you think about it, they're pretty sort of, sometimes they're crazy connections. They're sort of really far apart. And so, it's really creative to be able to find those connections.. But if you think about it within the moment, there's a big difference between doing that with an editor and having time versus actually having a mind that's going to do that, where he's just got all of these sort of parallel storeys he's jumping on.

Tommy: Yeah, it's, uh, I don't know what's going to happen with this stuff. I'd love to see Tom Cruise start vlogging, some unusual celebrity so unattainable. And then all this, like, how many interviews does Tom Cruise do if they're not for a movie around a specific topic? He's doing fine.

Josh: I don't think it would even— it wouldn't serve Tom Cruise. Like, what Tom Cruise is, is like— I don't think that he's in the game of humanising himself. He's in the game of playing characters. And I don't even think we know— I don't— I haven't— I've never seen sort of Tom Cruise as Tom Cruise. I've always seen Tom Cruise as like he's playing a character, and he's even playing a character of himself when he's on Oprah or any of those other shows.

Tommy: Yeah, I heard.

Josh: I've actually been— I've been getting into, um, Scientology just last night. Not Scientology. I got— no, I, I started, um, I went on to the YouTube, uh, sort of most viewed, also trending pages. Yeah. And I've gone down the rabbit hole of hip-hop culture. I was like, you know, like there was a part of me which is like, I think about where I get my inspirations— inspiration from what I listen to, and it can be a little bit, um, one-dimensional white dude, you know, talking type of thing. So I'm trying to consume different types of content with different cultures, and I I was watching an interview last night and it was awesome. I don't know if you know this guy. Do you know a guy named Tekashi 6ix9ine?

Tommy: Dude, BMac just lost it. He fell off his chair at the lack of pop culture knowledge that you have in that fucking huge head of yours. Do you know who he is? Dude, I've been obsessed with Tekashi for ages.

Josh: He's great, isn't he?

Tommy: He is so out there. From Brooklyn. Well, yeah, he calls himself the King in New York and he is absolutely whatever the opposite of what you think hip-hop is. He's this dude who isn't even black on the eye. He's Latino, so he's like tanned, but he uses the N-word like no tomorrow. And he's got the number 6ix9ine, that's his rap name, Tekashi 6ix9ine. Tattooed over his body hundreds of times. He's got face tats, he's got fluoro hair. He looks like a—

Josh: Multicoloured hair.

Tommy: Yeah. What's that? My Pony? My Little Pony? Those things that you had in school? Or is it a cross between a My Little Pony and a troll doll that had those fluoro-coloured hair?

Josh: It's such a nice dude, though. Like, watching the interview, I was really warming up, you know, like, I felt fondly of him. I was like, oh man, he seems like a nice young guy who's had a hard upbringing and he's got his entourage of random dudes that's like got nothing to do with rap. It's like a Mexican dude in a polo shirt that sort of like wakes him up in the morning and gets him food. I mean, what's it? So tell us more about, give us a schooling on Tekashi 6ix9ine.

Tommy: I've been fine. See, I miss his, see, I feel like you feel like, like you would right now when I message BMAC and I say, dude, you know Tekashi? Like this guy, what's 6ix9ine, you know of him? This was ages, months and months and months ago.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: He's like, yeah, dude, I've been following him for ages.

Josh: I vaguely remember you mentioning him.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: I think even on the podcast.

Tommy: He's, I just love his, he's like a massive troll. He goes and like, he trolls people online.

Josh: He looks like one too.

Tommy: Yeah. And he's just a tiny little dude. He recently got robbed. He was in like a car accident and these dudes robbed him at like 5 AM in the morning in Brooklyn. There's heaps of people after him and he's been in a few fights, but he's always just like trolling people online. But he's got some good songs. He's got a few good songs and he's just managed to— he's so charismatic and so much personality in coming at this scene from like an angle that no one's ever seen before. And it's working and he's making shitloads of money and he's adding hit after hit. I just saw this interview. I just sent this interview to BMAC probably half an hour ago of Tekashi where this radio presenter's basically just saying, "Do you take your craft seriously?" He's like, "Well, fuck no." And he's just like sang some of his lyrics from his song. He's like, "What the fuck even is that?

Josh: What is that?" So I'm enjoying even getting into the hip hop hip-hop, um, like the radio presenters too. This person I was listening to, Angie Martinez, it's just like these, like, these figures in hip-hop who obviously I have no idea who they are, but you can see that they have so much, um, get so much respect from the artists and the community. And yeah, I was, I was, I feel like I had one of those moments, and I don't always follow through. It's like when I get super excited about some sort of website. I'm like, man, I'm gonna favourite this, I'm gonna view it every day, and this is gonna be my new type of content. I was like, maybe I could just deep dive into all this hip-hop stuff just to understand it more.

Tommy: All you need to do is follow Tekashi, then you'll pick up on some others. This is how it happens for me. Like, I don't even know how I came across his Insta page, but then I started looking at these YouTube videos and I just— I find myself watching heaps of his shit. He's just got bizarre content. I mean, he's like a content king. He's pumping out so many little random videos and just bizarre shit. It's awesome. It's good that you get into it.

Josh: It's easy to be hated. I think it— the vibe that I get is that it would be easy to hate, hate him. But, um, I think that his, um, his perspectives are super interesting. And, um, you also— I don't think you can look at this stuff without looking at one's past and being like, oh, like Given the circumstances, it's amazing. You know, you could go two ways. You can— he could have been doing this level of hustle within the sort of in drugs and all that sort of thing, and instead he's creating content, man.

Tommy: There's a, um, he's a unicorn in that, in that space. Like, there is millions and millions of dudes, and you see them when you go to places like New York, just these guys on the street hustling rapping, trying to sell you their mixtape.

Josh: Just the amount of— but yeah, the whole CD, the whole CD thing. I'm like, bro, I don't even know where I'm going to put it. I think now they've started doing giving USBs, but even then I've got like a USB-C, so even a USB now, they need to go one step ahead. They just need to give me a download link or something.

Tommy: The— I've been, you know, this is so weird, but I've been watching um, like TMZ, or, you know, like, what do you call them, paparazzi. I mean, what, what, there's like, they just post clips online of them following celebrities. So they'll be like, Justin Bieber, he'd just be walking in to get a coffee. And I love watching them because it's just this view on this person's life. And I watched just going, how fucked's that dude following Justin Bieber? How fucked's Justin Bieber's life? Of him, he can't even go in to get a coffee when there's just hundreds of people running around and how people interacting with him. And so they're just, it's like raw footage of these paparazzi interactions. It's not like cut in between, you know, big music and here's Justin Bieber. It's just literally raw footage from a camera. And there's hundreds of thousands of these videos on YouTube of any celebrity that you like. It's bizarre. I don't know how I went down that rabbit hole recently, but it's interesting.

Josh: There's an app too where you can actually— I forgot the name of it, but it's like a celebrity spotting app. So, I think the thing that's— you don't have to worry about— I don't think paparazzi is the celebrity's biggest problem now. I think it's actually citizen paparazzi, which they're basically that anyway, where they— there's apps where you can upload if you've seen a photo of someone, so it's like them Literally, you can't go to a restaurant now without someone seeing, you know, 50 Cent and being like, you know, zooming in and getting a photo and posting it online.

Tommy: Can you please follow 50 Cent on Instagram too? He's amazing. He gets in beef. He loves Tekashi 6ix9ine, and he had, um, and because Tekashi calls himself the king of New York, and so is, I think, 50 Cent. So he's from New York, he's like that. Old school gangster from New York. So there was people like, um, you know, talking about those two, and then there was a photo of them together, and it's hilarious. But, um, 50 Cent trolls so many people, it's hilarious. He makes fun of Floyd Mayweather the boxer, and, uh, it's just about his— how he can't read. It's hilarious. And they used to be mates, and now they hate each other or something like that. But anyway, that's another one for you, a little project for you, Josh. 50 Cent deep dive.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: See what he's up to.

Josh: It's maybe, maybe once, maybe I could have a hip-hop segment on the show. Maybe once a week I can just sort of tell you a new hip-hop artist, tell them, tell you a little bit about them, school you.

Tommy: All right, maybe just do this in collaboration with BMAC because he knows what he's talking about. He works for a label here in Australia. So I mean, it depends on how you want to come across.

Josh: How about What about this? When we go to, um, New York, let's at least have one interview, like one conversation, one guest that's a rapper. Yes, I think that would be fun. I think like, um, just, just to build up a bit of cred, get a bit of a— maybe launch my rapping career.

Tommy: Probably not. I'm sure if we paid one of the guys trying to sell his mixtape, he'd just do an interview instead.

Josh: Actually, that's a great idea. We should 100% use like the, um, use one of the guys on the street. That'd be fun.

Tommy: I— yeah, we spoke to them when I was in New York last, 2012. And yes, talking to them, they, they'll do a rap for you or freestyle, um, you know, if you pay them a few bucks. They'll just like— you drop them.

Josh: I wonder if they could hold a 30 to 45 minute show. It could go either way.

Tommy: Yeah, that might That might.

Josh: We've got a couple of emails. Derek, Derek Myers on the email, uh, yeah, pointed out, um, you know, I've been going on about thongs, not a thongs guy. He, uh, he mentioned the C word in the email. Crocs.

Tommy: Crocs. Jeez.

Josh: Yeah, he's, um, he's suggesting I get Crocs, and he sent a photo with some sort of SpongeBob edition. And funnily enough, Bree had mentioned when I was saying about the thongs issue, that there's a lot of people around here wearing Crocs. But I still, I feel like they're a no, no-go Crocs. I can never, with all the work that I've done on my rebrand, getting Crocs would be a real step back.

Tommy: There's a real like taking Crocs to the next level and that's wearing long socks with Crocs. It's almost like it goes beyond fucked and it becomes cool. So now it's this—

Josh: Really?

Tommy: Yeah, there's heaps of people in Collingwood doing it. It's whack. Artists love it. I think it's like, it's the push through drugs.

Josh: It doesn't mean it's a good idea. Like they're sort of fucked off their face wearing Crocs. I don't know.

Tommy: Yeah, I don't think it's cool at all. Have you seen the photos of people with, um, sunburn that's gone through the Crocs and it's just little circles.

Josh: I don't know how to relate to something like that. I don't want that. We haven't had anyone close the loop in regards to the skin cancer thing about the moles. So I'm still just sort of rocking my normal routine of just putting a bit of sunscreen on my face. I haven't been getting burnt, which is good.

Tommy: But I can't imagine you one to be just parading around without a top on, just through the streets.

Josh: Oh yeah, you should see me in bloody Europe. I hope people don't give a fuck in Europe. Yeah, I'm the loosest unit going around. I've got the sickest tan. We've got to get a photo when you and I are in LA, tops off on the beach, playing a bit of volleyball.

Tommy: All right, all right.

Josh: I'll have the sickest tan by then. Um, um, I just quickly, um, we didn't get to it yesterday, but Michelle, uh, she was talking about— she was appreciating actually a lot of great feedback about the Cycling Maven episode. Got a few emails, Mada, Michelle, people reaching out and saying that they really enjoyed it. And she was talking about how much she liked Mark's view on the numbers. And yeah, like, I think we're talking about the YouTube numbers and how he doesn't look at them. Anyway, she did send through, and I won't read it now because I'm sure I'll fuck it up and it will, it'll play with my mind, but she sent through a, um, a riddle. Yeah. Do you understand the riddle yet?

Tommy: I have no idea, but I might have read it when I was sick yesterday.

Josh: I think what I need to do is I need to go through and take every line. There's 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 lines in the riddle. And so what I think I need to do is get like, put it in Evernote and break it down line by line and try and work out what it means. I think that's the only way I'm going to understand this riddle.

Tommy: You're decoding the Da Vinci Code, is that it?

Josh: It has that vibe. So it's, um, yeah, I, yeah, I, I didn't understand it, Michelle.

Tommy: Uh, I'll have another read over it. Maybe Amy's brain is smart enough to interpret what you've riddled to us.

Josh: I've been having a bit of a comp— I've got a bit of a complex about intelligence at the moment and the lack of intelligence I feel that I have.

Tommy: But that's why we're doing this show, to grow. I got a compliment from Craig Harper.

Josh: He said, "You are a much better communicator since you've been doing the podcast with Josh." Did you just say, "Thanks, thanks Craig, you're listening to the Daily Talk Show," and then play it, play it tuned? No, but I think— That's a nice compliment.

Tommy: You can only get better unless you're punching cones, then you probably may lose a few brain cells and lose your intelligence. But I think that's why we're doing this, why you bring your word of the day, which—

Josh: Yeah, today was the difference between mastectomy and vasectomy, correct?

Tommy: Yeah, well, we got it. We know, we know what it is.

Josh: Yeah, I think that's it, like, yeah, you need to, Yeah, you need to have those moments to learn. I guess this—

Tommy: yeah, I think sometimes this is a bit of a criticism, constructive for you. You worry about getting shit wrong. I think you learn, you learn pretty quickly when you get stuff wrong because it's okay to be wrong.

Josh: Yeah, I think— I don't know if it's, um, I don't think it's the getting the— getting it wrong. I think it's annoying when I knew when it was It's the difference between a spelling mistake and a typo. So, if people feel like if it's a typo, it's like, "Ah, yeah, he just misused his fingers," you know, in that moment. Whereas a spelling mistake is you actually didn't know how to spell the word. So, I feel like the "masectomy," "vasectomy" thing felt more like a typo than a spelling mistake. But I did want to do a shout out. I've mentioned them before, but they're actually— Zara, one of the co-hosts, is back from being on holidays. Michelle and Zara have a podcast called Shameless, and I was listening to it while I was sunbaking yesterday. And there's a conversation—

Tommy: That's the manliest thing you've ever said.

Josh: Yeah, we've said it before, I'm probably the most femme in regards to our podcast duo. I do get self-conscious because a lot of the podcasts I listen to have sort of a like, we're female focus type of vibe. Like, hey, you know, we're just a bunch of chicks chatting. Yeah. And there's a part of me which feels a little bit out of place. But no, their podcast Shameless, especially If you're a female, if you sort of are into pop culture and all that sort of thing, they're super— That's what's gotten me sort of thinking about my vocabulary and all that sort of thing is they're just like very articulate and they remind me of us in regards to some of the conversations we're having, but they sort of know how to articulate it. So, that's my recommendation. Any— Have you been listening to any podcasts?

Tommy: Oh, just the, the one from, um, and I suggest, and I've already suggested it to about 10 other people, uh, James Altucher and Seth Godin, his latest episode. It was unbelievable.

Josh: It was just— it was really good.

Tommy: I mean, it resonated with me and obviously you because of the journey we're on, but I think for anyone who's wanting to create something and put it out there, or I've sent it to people, friends of mine who have written books and And it just, I think, puts in perspective some of the stuff that people have when they think around what success of something means and what people think success is. One of the things that blew my mind is that you can pay $80,000 and be on the New York Times bestseller list with your book.

Josh: Yeah, yeah. So what he's referring to there, I think, is, um, you know, it's a, it's a numbers game, right? So especially people like Gary Vaynerchuk you'll notice that when he does a launch of his book, he'll be doing these big deals where it's like you buy 10 copies, hardcover copies, and you'll get this webinar access, or buy 15 or 20 copies. So what they basically— what a lot of the, um, those sort of hustling authors who want to make those New York Times bestselling lists do is they ramp up and sort of almost inflate the numbers by getting their audience to buy multiple copies and giving other rewards. So, um, and it only works— you'll notice at the beginning of a, um, uh, you know, a book launch, they'll be just pushing the hardcover copy because that is the copy that is used to determine whether they, um They basically make the New York Times list, so things like Kindle versions don't make it. So yeah, I think that's what he was probably referring to, is you can spend a bunch of money, buy a bunch of books, get your audience to buy it, and sort of, um, yeah, you know, you get out of the system.

Tommy: It's crazy, but it's a— that was a great episode, great podcast.

Josh: Yeah, yeah, it was very good. Awesome, everyone. Uh, I'm— so I'm in Positano right now. It is what, 9 in the morning? It's 5 PM where you are.

Tommy: Are you leaving today?

Josh: Yeah, so change of plans though, we're not going to Turkey yet. The flights were just too expensive compared to what I think they should be. So, we're now going to Capri, spending a few days there on that island, and then we're heading to Napoli, back to Naples where we're doing Pompeii, and then after that we fly to Munich, then we fly to Poland, and then we go to France. And so that's our, that's our current plan.

Tommy: Well, you, if you have any money left after Capri, it's meant to be like one of the most expensive islands. It's so expensive.

Josh: Interesting. Yeah, we'll see. Yeah, I was just looking up, um doing a boat tour. Are you much of a, um, I'm trying to work out whether to do the group boat tour or just getting a private one. I don't know if I can handle just dealing with other people.

Tommy: No, I tell you right now, get the boat that has like 8 people on it. You, there's like just couples sometimes. There's, it's not even full. We did, so you can go on the boat with like 25, 30 people, or the boat, the private ones, they're about 100 and €110 each, maybe a bit less, €90 each, but it's 100% worth it. You get a smaller boat, they give you lunch, it's so much better. Go the private tour, spend a little bit more. Yolo.

Josh: Well, I was thinking, so when they say private, it's private with a few other people on it?

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: It's not completely private unless you've got a party of 7 or something?

Tommy: Yeah, correct. So you'll get put with a bunch of other people. Oh, lovely. We met some really lovely couples from all over the world on there.

Josh: Sounds like you talk to them though. Like I have this real sort of a back and forth.

Tommy: Like I have this moment of, yeah, just, "No, me no speak no English." Yeah, "Yo no capisco." "Yo no capisco." Just, nah, I think if you, 'cause you can just go down and lie on the boat. And if you, here's a good one. Pretend that you're seasick because they'll leave you alone.

Josh: Just do a bit of vomiting. I don't know.

Tommy: You don't have to vomit, you can just look queasy.

Josh: I just don't, yeah, I don't know. I just, I still, I'm not the guy who loves those sort of tours where you talk. But in saying that, when we're put in that position, like we were on a boat yesterday and there was another couple and Bree is the person who loves the banter and talking and saying, oh yeah, what? Where are you from, all that sort of thing. And so I just, uh, I vibe off that. But, um, I feel like it's— it doesn't feel like a holiday when I, when I play in that space.

Tommy: Yeah, well, mate, just do what you normally do, get a podcast and sit in the corner.

Josh: Yeah, I'll just literally put my AirPods in, listen to a bit of Shameless, sunbake. It's me and the girls. It's Daily Talk Show, everyone. Uh, send us your emails, hi@thedailytalkshow.com. And also, um, rate us on the Apple Podcast app or through iTunes. Anything else, TJ? Is that it?

Tommy: That's it, mate.

Josh: All right, have a good one.

Tommy: Catch ya. Bye, guys.