Your emails

Tommy: Wait a minute!

Josh: Crossface, the Daily Talk Show, a conversation sometimes worth recording with Josh Janson and Tommy Jackett. Episode— oh, episode 110.

Tommy: That was a mini stroke at the start. Yeah, how are we?

Josh: Yeah, good, mate. How you going?

Tommy: Yeah, yeah, good.

Josh: That's good.

Tommy: I sound like a piece of shit.

Josh: Why? Because your voice still—

Tommy: just me nose and I couldn't— I lost my voice over the weekend. That, that was weird.

Josh: Isn't it interesting, like some people have that as their constant voice.

Tommy: What, losing your voice?

Josh: Yeah, like the, um, especially what is it about like, um, like cycle, like, you know, the, the people who sit at the— like stand at the front of cycling classes or aerobics they have that like croaky—

Tommy: oh, spit. Yes, because they're yelling. Yeah, you know, I used to get it a lot when I'd go hard on the weekend, get pissed, and then feel horrible on Monday. But must have been yelling in bars. You, you never had that?

Josh: No.

Tommy: I mean, it was worse when you could smoke in nightclubs.

Josh: Yeah, that was horrible, man. I remember being in Romania and you could— they could smoke everywhere.

Tommy: You do what you want, can't you?

Josh: Yeah, and I just, I couldn't handle it. It was like, like I wouldn't go to these venues anyway, like in a normal like setting outside, you know, in my own hometown. But yeah, it was gross.

Tommy: We have it. Well, if you're listening for the first time, we've got an email address, hi@thedailytalkshow.com.

Josh: Man, it has gone off in the last week. I'm not good when it comes to email. It's one of the things that with my trip, I want to like have a big reset.

Tommy: What do you mean good? I had to find good in email landscape.

Josh: I had 140 unread emails last week.

Tommy: You sent me a screen grab of your phone and it had like 200. And I've written back gross before to you, but you said it was a different email account. Problem is, how many email addresses have you got?

Josh: Yeah, I've got like 6 or 7. So some of them are coming from like the Melbourne Geek days, like PR people saying, hey Josh, test out this product. But no, it's the hi@thedailytalkshow email address.

Tommy: Well, if you send something through, we sometimes we don't get back to you on email, but we get back to you on the show. We get back to everybody on the show.

Josh: But because we haven't had any, because we've had the guests on, we haven't been doing that. So, for the last week, we haven't done any sort of, not shoutouts, but sort of referencing the email.

Tommy: We got a really good one from Wen. Now this is someone you know.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: You've told the storey of how you met randomly.

Josh: I don't know if I have.

Tommy: This is the one from San Francisco.

Josh: No, it's not, you idiot.

Tommy: Is that not that one?

Josh: No. So San Francisco, that's Sarah Lee that you're thinking of. Okay. Wen and I met at a Lean Filmmaking meetup. She was working at the time at MAP, which is Melbourne Uni's Startup Acceleration Program. Aren't you glad you asked?

Tommy: Yeah, well, I remember you telling me and I tuned out and just assumed it was your friend Sarah.

Josh: No, so no. But I thought her name was Wen. Yeah, no. So when, um, when's in Canada now, so she's Australian, uh, grew up in Melbourne and she's doing like a year or so in Canada, but she pivoted from doing the whole startup thing. She's like, screw this, I'm going to do video. So that gives you the context in which—

Tommy: well, she sent through one and the title of it was Binge Listening: Women in Radio Gamble on Strategy. Yeah. And I mean, that was quite a downloaded episode, Women in Radio. That was Someone in Australia in the radio scene, female, wrote an article. We kind of just chatted about it, but it was kind of before it really blew up. Yeah, I'm trying to take credit, but we did discuss it like we discuss most things, Josh and I. Yeah, but I just want to read you this email from when I think you have some good thoughts around it. And I know that we have a few people that listen that are kind of in the creative space.

Josh: Sure.

Tommy: Um, hi Josh and Tommy, I just had a 2-hour binge session of listening to your show whilst playing Candy Crush. Really enjoy it, thanks for the therapy. Um, the Women in Radio episode made me think about a strategic gamble I've been pondering, specifically related to unconscious bias. Yeah, which we've got into in a few episodes. Uh, this week I've been doing some camera operating work at the Banff World Media Festival. Trade show in the Canadian TV industry. Looking around at all the media crew, I'm literally the only woman in AV and one of maybe half a dozen Asian people on the entire crew of probably almost 100. At the same time, all but 2 people on the producing, programming, and PR teams are women, both across junior and senior roles. Maybe they're just— ladies are smarter than having to stand up all day.

Josh: Well, I think, I think I think naturally, yeah, a lot of the PR roles and stuff like that, it's a very women sort of focused industry, female focused.

Tommy: Yeah, so she said, coincidentally, I had received advice from a doco director in the form of an offhanded comment to not let them push me into a producing role and to stay behind the camera in a technical role. Here's the catch, I don't particularly enjoy camera ops. I find it pretty boring and find it's mostly mindless manual labor. However, For the purpose of product differentiation and scarcity, myself as the product in this field that is increasingly offering more and more affirmation, affirmative action initiatives to women, I'm thinking that I should stay in a camera role and market myself as a tech crew. I think it will get me more set hours more quickly than I'm going to get down the producer side, and I'll have less to compete with, meaning less to other women, less women to compete with. I want to, I want set hours to understand how the machinery, the product works, so then I eventually can go back to producing and work and not be on the ground doing physical labor. So essentially she wants to be a producer, but she's thinking maybe I take the gamble and be an AV, yeah, video person.

Josh: I mean, WEN's very strategic, I think, um, which you are too.

Tommy: So this is, I think This is why she's reached out to the JJ Support Network.

Josh: Well, yeah, I want to preface with whatever we're saying as gospel. No, I've started hating shows that are just advice-driven where people are like saying they've got all the answers and all that sort of thing.

Tommy: This is a really interesting part regarding unconscious bias. I find that men are puzzled to see me behind the camera and have low expectations, which then makes my job easier because it's not hard to exceed their expectations. And then she says that the showrunners are also curious as to, you know, her being there as a camera operator and want to hire her too.

Josh: Yeah, I mean, I think that it's a, uh, an interesting place to be. I reckon it's, it's that thing of, you know, if you go down the normal path, you know, there is the regular path that people expect. And I'm all for doing whatever is the least— what is they say? Least treaded, trotted, or whatever they say.

Tommy: What's that word? At least walked path. Yeah, I get it.

Josh: Yeah, let's break it down. It's— yeah, but I think, um, I think it's a great idea doing the, the sort of technical stuff because once you build up the technical sort of thing, you can then have empathy in a producer role. So I think that it's, yeah, people are obviously, they'll go the real obvious route, but all when is it like putting aside all the unconscious bias stuff, the female stuff, it's just like, it's the question actually is around like, you know, the opportunities that are available. And it's like, okay, if you have the opportunity to work within a company. You know, it's like we talk about with radio stuff all the time where it's like people who go into a certain role with the idea that they're going to somehow end up on air.

Tommy: Well, a career— I mean, over the years, the industrial years, and then like doctors and university, like a clear pathway is what we're saying to a role like a doctor. Do your uni, do your hours, get your, you know, degree and become a doctor. Creative roles are few and far between. Even if you think it's the path that you need to follow to get to that creative endeavor, might not be the path. But it's like what Hamish said about this might not be the thing. This might be the thing that gets you to the thing that you wanna do. And so there's no 100% on any of this stuff.

Josh: I think that the, I mean, it's a very hard balance because you don't wanna just be doing it because you know, because of that reaction, because of people saying it's unexpected. But there's definitely— I think if you put that aside and just look at it purely as a question on should I take this opportunity, yeah, I think that that sounds like a great idea.

Tommy: I struggle doing— I struggle being that calculated. I would struggle to be in the role if I didn't like it, and I would struggle to have to think that, okay, I've just got to stick this out for a year or two to get to there.

Josh: Well, I don't even think— the other thing too is I don't think it's like a year or two strategy. I think it's like a 6-month strategy. Like, you could find out a lot and learn a lot in the process and then be— I think that if it was a completely different— if it's— if Wen said, oh, there's, um, these opportunities in the catering section you know, in unit or whatever it is, and I, you know, I'm thinking about doing that, then you'd say that from catering to the producing might be a weirder jump. But I think that there's a, um, yeah, there's definitely something in that sort of going across.

Tommy: You learn a lot. I'm from the school of Cowboy. Yeah, where you jump on and you got no saddle and you yeehaw.

Josh: Well, and I think that's the thing, it's the, um, As Wren said, it's a great opportunity. Anytime that your people don't have high expectations, put you, especially in the learning phase, put you in this awesome place.

Tommy: This is just slightly off topic, but I was speaking to somebody about delivering more than you say you will, which is kind of like, I guess, exceeding their expectations of what they're gonna get from you.

Josh: Well, it's undersell, overdeliver.

Tommy: But I had this moment where I was like, if that is for everything, is there a diminishing return on over-delivering all the time? Because then you feel bad if you're not over-delivering. So I was like, for someone I'm working with at the moment, that's what I said to her. It's like, I'm— to be honest, I'm putting in a lot more than I probably should, or what the, you know, what we've decided on. And it's like, I have— I've identified the problem with myself that I put that on to everyone I work with. So I almost feel like it can suck a lot of time out of you by trying to overdeliver for everybody.

Josh: Yeah, well, I think you need to communicate it and sort of be really clear when you are going above and beyond, because if it becomes— because what ends up happening is it becomes the norm. Your actions become the, you know, the, the selling bit, because they're sold on what they got last time versus being like, hey, I've done this thing, this bit is extra. Yeah, I'm delivering it for this time. And then that put— rather than it just sort of you not mentioning it.

Tommy: I mean, the— I think about Ed Goldner, who is a— is he established? He's quite—

Josh: yeah, he's amazing.

Tommy: He's an amazing filmmaker. We went to high school together. I remember he went to university, Swinburne, to do film and TV, dropped out.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: But was working on films every single weekend for free. Just, he was so driven. He's like obsessed about the thing he wants to do.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: And he ended up going back to teach kids at that film and TV course later on because he had worked his way up to be, you know, a DOP. So like head guy shooting the shit.

Josh: The thing is, yeah, it's being comfortable with the ambiguity. Of what's happening. So, it's like being comfortable with the fact that there is no pathway. And I think that there's so many things at play. You can, as an Australian, go to a new market and sort of be the shiny new thing. And so, that's the other part, like taking yourself out of the normal environment gives you an opportunity to look at yourself completely different. And that's probably the, like, that's what I love about going to like having travelled to remote parts of Indonesia or Pakistan, I enjoy the feeling of the novel, like being a novelty.

Tommy: It gives you a— it gives me some Dutch courage.

Josh: Yeah. All of a sudden, and it's this, the same thing with, I don't know if we've spoken about on the show, it's like people who go to London and they work in fashion for a year and they go from like, being an assistant role, and then they come in as like the director, like back in Melbourne, creative director back in Melbourne. It's like, oh, they've done—

Tommy: Yeah, we're in London.

Josh: They've bloody— Oh, London, they must be good.

Tommy: I sank all my spare money on pints at the pub.

Josh: Yeah, so, uh, thanks, Wend, for the email. I don't know if that was, uh, at all helpful.

Tommy: I think it was good.

Josh: It's awesome getting emails. We've also— We got one from, uh, Matty. Uh, he, he was just basically saying that we shouldn't be so hard on ourselves, that we're good-looking guys. And he found us recently through listening to the Minimalists podcast.

Tommy: They gave you a shout out?

Josh: Yeah, so that was good. And we also got an email from Danny, who is a train driver, who discovered us through Trevor Long's podcast.

Tommy: What I love about people emailing is it's not like anyone's giving us their life story. I'm this person, this, this, this, this. But we're slowly working out that Danny, you said it was?

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: I thought it was Wayne.

Josh: No, no, no. So no, Wayne is, uh, Wayne also emailed.

Tommy: Okay, so, but you're hearing these little bits and pieces like, I'm a train driver, yeah, listen to you on the commute. Yeah, it's, it's so good.

Josh: Well, do you want to mention Wayne's email? There was one. Bloody oath I do.

Tommy: Was Wino the one that talked about swearing, or was that Danny?

Josh: No, so Danny said about the train driving, he said that basically not to endure your swearing ban.

Tommy: I said I'd tone it back.

Josh: Yeah, he's not into it.

Tommy: Because I was affected by watching me.

Josh: He said, please keep up with the swearing, I'm a train driver and it's the only language I understand. Fuck Tommy's swearing ban.

Tommy: If you've listened to the Craig Harper episode, and just give me context of who wrote this, but Craig put something on his Instagram account, and he's one of the most proficient swearers I know in my world, and he's successful, so fuck off. But he put up a post on his Insta the other day. If I swear and Bill is offended but Bob is not, is the offence a byproduct of my swearing or Bill's thinking, yep, it's fucking Bill. So I like that, but obviously we're connecting and you might lose a few. But yeah, so Wayne wrote through and he was—

Josh: yeah, he's my, he's my relative from Geelong. Yes, yes.

Tommy: God, I've got a good memory, except I accused him of being a train driver.

Josh: Yeah, you've, you're mixing, anyway, Wayne, episode 104, Zero Dark Thirty.

Tommy: I was mentioning that I got on a, uh, Osama bin Laden deep dive watching some documentaries.

Josh: He was saying that in military terminology, using 24-hour clock, 9 AM would be 0900 hours, or just 0900. And he said from his experience, zero dark thirty was a general reference to any time between midnight and dawn. So, like during the dark hours. He said that often when someone would ask what time something was meant to be occurring, we would also use, "Oh, too early." Or if it was really early, like 2 or 3 AM, "Oh, too fucking early," as a generic time reference.

Tommy: Was he in the army?

Josh: Yeah. You know— I don't know anything more than that, but that's—

Tommy: So intrigued.

Josh: Mate, well, this is what's awesome. We're getting all these emails from everyone. We got an email from Stu So, as well, AKA Steve. He said that seeing it's National Toasty Day on June 28th, maybe you guys can talk about your favourite fillings in your toastie. Maybe it's ham and, he said maybe it's salmon cheese. I think he means ham. So, and also today we also had Karina who works in the office next door, came in and said, listen to the show. We started talking about stickers. I'm trying to get stickers for the Daily Talk Show.

Tommy: It was good, Karina, thank you. You've put a rocket up Josh's ass. He's been on a sticker website all morning trying to buy these things.

Josh: Yeah, we're gonna work it out. Finally, George emailed us. Last week about this panic button, also known as the rape whistle, which we spoke about I think maybe a week and a half ago.

Tommy: Well, I came into the office and I saw on Riley, who works out of here, I saw on her bag this thing, this little dongle. Yeah, what is that? What's that hanging off your bag? Oh, get this, and she pulls it like a really loud noise. She said rape whistle.

Josh: Yeah. Yeah, and so my instant reaction at that time was like to apologise to the fact that she had to have that.

Tommy: I sprung it on you. I was trying to get you to work out what it is and you got it straight away. Like it's some kind of either a nut holder or a panic button, which you got it.

Josh: Well, so the thing, the way it works is rather than it being a button, it like you pull it for the siren to go off. But anyway, George was, emailed in and he said that his girlfriend was wondering where you get it from because she does walking around Brunswick. And it was, that was only a couple of days before Yura Deasy Dixon was raped and murdered in Melbourne. And so, like, we were talking, we spoke on Friday morning before we recorded and we're reading the articles and just—

Tommy: It just happened the night before, didn't it?

Josh: Yeah. And so we'll just in this place where we were thinking, like, you just think how fucked up it is. You know, you, like, I was thinking about her and she was a comedian, you know, up-and-coming comedian. And I'd recently been to open mics where, you know, watching people perform, I could really sort of, you know, paint that picture of this is a person that we know. These, you know, we would probably have mutual friends. This is close to home.

Tommy: Well, yeah, the details make it really, really real when you see that she messaged her mate, said, I'm nearly home. Yeah, I'm nearly home safe.

Josh: Yeah. And then, and so I don't think, like, so to answer George's question, I've emailed him back, but we— I asked Riley, um, last week and she couldn't remember.

Tommy: She bought it off a Facebook ad.

Josh: Yeah, but I've found a, um, on Jaycar, I like, I typed in the description of what it was and I found it. So it's called the 100 DB, which would be like decibel, red mini personal alarm with torch. But, um, yeah, it's, it's that, uh, like Bree has been over the weekend just been seeing all of these things pop up on social media.

Tommy: Why? As in, are people talking about what happened?

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: And it's, um, well, if you're not from Australia and maybe even Melbourne, I don't know if this travels to Sydney. Like, I'm sure they're hearing about it.

Josh: Definitely. Well, back in this, uh, I guess Lisa Wilkinson has moved to Melbourne.

Tommy: Yeah, I mean, things are definitely proximity. Like, you'd be hearing about it more in Melbourne.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: And, and thinking about a lot more. But if you're from overseas, there was a woman years ago named Jill Maher who a similar thing happened where she was raped and it was, it was, and murdered, and murdered. And there was thousands of people protesting down the street. I mean, they were just, it's like a vigil walking down the street and it made a lot of noise. And, and I guess people are feeling the effects of, you know, something of similar nature happening again in the same city.

Josh: Well, I think that what I take from it is just this, this need for change and not necessarily knowing the answers, like not knowing what— and realising the— you know, and we spoke a lot about it around the privilege that we have and that in the sense of I was walking this morning, you know, 6 AM in the dark in Collingwood and the light didn't turn green for me to go on Hoddle Street. So I ended up walking down sort of a smaller street, and I was thinking, I'm like, you know, this is a privilege that I have, that I don't have to walk in the light in the main street, that I feel like I can walk down a side street without being raped and murdered. And so yeah, it's a, you know, you reflect it back to your own sort of world. And she, you know, Yury Dussi was in our world. She was sort of, you know, in the same suburb a kilometre away from where we are. It's that weird thing of not knowing what to do.

Tommy: I mean, we, yeah, we don't know what to do. I think that's the signs of everyone is like, we don't know what to do. All these people and some fucking asshole went to where it happened, where all the flowers are left, and drew something on the ground.

Josh: Yeah. And I think that it's, um, I— what I take from it is the— it makes me look closer around in the community to the people around us. Um, and it's, you know, I think that the, the, the thing that happened in the media, which was really bad, was it sort of became this sort of women's problem, which was like, okay, like, don't go out at this time. Like, no, like, we need to create a community where anyone can go out and they don't feel like their life is at risk. Um, so yeah, it's a— and I think that it's the reason that I, you know, we, we spoke about it a lot on Friday and, um And it was that whole thing of, you know, what do we have to say? What do we, you know, what's, you know, the one of the things that you're really hyper-aware of through being in radio is, you know, talking about something just for the sake of talking about it and coming across as tokenistic or trying to relate it to you in a way that just doesn't—

Tommy: Well, it's the job of the media, and that was what we were encouraged to do, is like, if it's topical, talk about it.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: And that doesn't take into account if you have anything to add, so then you become a regurgitation of information, which is what I heard. It happened last Thursday, and on Friday night driving home, yeah, I heard a lot of people doing that. But I think there was— what was coming through is outrage and information that is— I don't know if it's adding to it or not, but yeah, it definitely is just how it's dealt with. And my point was, I don't— yeah, I'm always concerned about what are we bringing to something, and is the opposite, you know, not ignoring it but just bringing light to something like on the show, is that more beneficial for people?

Josh: And I think that in the moment, I think that reflecting on it all, um, actually it was on— it was Thursday, no, it was Thursday that we had the conversation, that we had the conversation. Um, I think that it was the, the thing that I've come to realise is it's like it's not a comfortable conversation to have, it's not. But the thing is that that's our, that's the privilege that we have, which is the fact that we, you know, we could say, oh, this doesn't affect us and we can walk the streets. And for that reason that, you know, oh, you know, let's not rock the boat. Let's not bring it up. We don't need to talk about it. But the thing is this, no, this, we need to be doing something. And I don't know what that, I think that the hard thing is that it's, We don't know what that is, but we don't need to— you know, I saw some guys comment on some social media posts being like, oh, don't put men all in this, you know, this basket. You know, there's good blokes out there, but you know, this is one—

Tommy: what was that on though? What was the article about?

Josh: You know, but these are, these are, you know, it's conversations around what happened, right? And the thing is that it's not, uh, if that's the conversation that you're having, you're missing the point. Because we don't have to worry about being raped and murdered on the street. And so within our community, there are people that do. It's our friends, it's our families, it's our neighbors, it's our partners. And so, uh, I think, you know, people want—

Tommy: and I feel this way— the media have a fucking, you know, something to answer for in terms of contributing to this outrage culture. And, and what I take from you, and a lesson you're teaching me, is around maybe it's not the time and place to bring it up when a woman's just been raped. And, and I do my bit for outrage culture on— in media. I, I talk about it a lot, I think. But what you're saying is those dudes writing a comment on a piece that's about a woman, regardless if there is trigger points in that thing for outrage.

Josh: I don't think there— I think this is—

Tommy: this—

Josh: and this is the, the bit that gets missed, or the, the bit that I think that those comments— like, it's, it's not— I don't think that there is any— like, there's no, there's no reason within that context to be trying to, to worry about men's—

Tommy: it's exactly my point.

Josh: If you listen—

Tommy: but the thing is, my point is, I know, but it's totally not the right place to do it.

Josh: It's not even the right— it's not that it's not the right place, it's not the the right thing to be worried about. Like, the thing is that this— it's not—

Tommy: I think, you know, you and I talk about things getting out of hand, and—

Josh: but I can guarantee you that it's never got— like, I am never worried about that something's going to go so out of hand that something's going to affect me. The only thing that could go out of hand is that we somehow solve this, like, solve this problem.

Tommy: I think you're a part of equation, and there's a lot of people out there that are worrying about how far things will get, which is okay. And I don't agree with assholes writing on fucking posts about what about us, like that's rich, like I get that. Yeah, you're a fucking idiot if you do that.

Josh: Yeah, but I think that it's the— I think that the idea that this is a women's, a female problem is bullshit. And the thing is that the privilege that we have, you know, doesn't like, it's very hard for me to articulate what I'm trying to say.

Tommy: I'm not going against what you're saying, right?

Josh: And this is why like we didn't speak about it last week was because it was sort of like, I didn't want it to be some sort of shit show where it doesn't feel like it's done any good But I think that what I'm trying to say is that, you know, whatever, if there is like, we have a lot of blind spots with all of this stuff. So, and we've got an audience, you know, a diverse audience of people who listen to us, which I love. Like, I love that we have everything from, you know, train drivers to having Karina, like huge amount of different— Shout out to Michelle. Yeah, Michelle, we've got so many different people who listen to the show.

Tommy: I know we just listed 3, but we do have more than 3.

Josh: We've got Steve as well, we've got Wen.

Tommy: Yeah, look, you know, you brought it up last week about should we talk about it, and it's 100% on people's minds in Melbourne.

Josh: And so it wasn't even should I talk about it, I think, what should we bring it to the show?

Tommy: We decide what we talk about in the show.

Josh: Yeah, it was a question around I've read all these articles, I've— I see this, this person, I've heard her story, and I think that we need to say— and I think we need to say something. And the uncomfortable nature is we don't— I don't know what it is that we should be saying, but I'm trying to realise that my little bit of discomfort now in not knowing what to say doesn't come close to the discomfort of being out on the streets at night or trying to get home from a gig or trying to, you know, make a life for yourself as a comedian and having to worry about whether your life is on the line.

Tommy: So we went there anyway.

Josh: Yeah, so we did talk about it, but like, I think that it's, um, I think it's important. But yeah, send us an email, hi@thedailytalkshow.com, if there's, you know, around this topic We, we know, Tommy and I both know that we don't have the answers to these things. And, um, you know, I— it has been on my mind constantly. Every time I'm walking, I saw someone approaching someone else, uh, over, you know, on Sunday night, and I felt like it was sort of a weird situation, so I just hung around. I don't know, it's this weird thing where it's like trying to work out what to you know, what are we meant to do? And so it's a, um, you know, but any, any extra perspective in these types of things, this is, um, you know, I want to be, I want to be schooled. I want to learn. I want to know how I can help.

Tommy: I think, yeah, we don't have the personal experience in a lot of these areas, but hey, we're not over here trying to say that we know, we have answers.

Josh: So, and I think that the, the other thing too about this is it's like, it's that friction of, you know, there's A Current Affair shows or there's like, you know, panel shows in Australia that talk about these issues and they go from this like talking about this crazy, horrendous thing to have happened and then be able to flick a switch and be all fun and all that sort of thing. I find that really difficult. I feel like it's disingenuous. I mean, I think that it's, I don't know how to compartmentalize. I could never say that we could talk about this topic and then all of a sudden flick a switch and be like, all right, let's talk about some fun shit. 'Cause I think that this is—

Tommy: Well, you're setting yourself a massive trap 'cause then we're still doing this show.

Josh: No, we're done. I think we're done. Show done?

Tommy: Yeah, we're done. Holy shit, we got through 30 minutes?

Josh: Yeah, it's been over 30 minutes.

Tommy: Oh, I had a great storey about the sauna.

Josh: I don't think we can do this again. But not a good time. No, I think in all seriousness, like, you know, I think that it's, I really do mean that, that it's, Um, when you look at, uh, you— Eurydice Dixon had a career, had a life, had friends, family, relationships, and that was, you know, that was taken away. And, you know, I know that there's not much that we can do now, but what we can do is put light on the fact that she fucking existed and she was someone who didn't deserve to pass away. And you're—

Tommy: I appreciate the sensitivity that you have because sometimes I lack those thoughts.

Josh: Well, I think that it's just— and I, I'm definitely not perfect, and I realise that, like, I cringe at myself hearing me talk about this stuff. And we do have this desire to bring lightness and joke and all that sort of thing. But it's a, it's, yeah, I think you just need to, whenever you put that empathetic lens or that lens on, it's, yeah.

Tommy: If you wanna send us an email, hi@thedailytalkshow.com. We've got some good guests coming up 'cause you're outta here. You're gone next week.

Josh: Yeah, so I leave on Tuesday, June 26th. To Europe, so we're going to be doing the show remotely. There'll be a new show which will be you and I talking Monday to Thursday, so this sort of style. And then we're currently doing pre-records with guests for Fridays.

Tommy: Oh yeah, we had a great chat with a guy named Jeff Jowett.

Josh: Yeah, he's a really interesting guy. He's so— but someone who, uh, who's really changed his life, gone from you know, this dude who described his life as a bit of Wolf of Wall Street.

Tommy: Well, he had, he had a company that was generating $35 million a year revenue. Yeah, to nothing. And he's done it multiple times.

Josh: And yeah, and a lot of life lessons and addiction along the way.

Tommy: So that will be a really, really interesting one.

Josh: So just again, that, uh, Jay Carr, if it's the 100 dB Red Mini Personal Alarm, uh, with Torch is the thing. It's $10 that you can get. Um, yeah, thanks for listening everyone. It's always— it's a— it's an uncomfortable— and I— I— what do I do when I get uncomfortable? I just keep talking. So I'm just going to finish it now. Have a good one everyone. Bye.