Attractive people

Tommy: Wait a minute! Crossface!

Josh: The Daily Talk Show, a conversation sometimes worth recording with Josh Jansen and Tommy Jackett.

Tommy: 109 of The Daily Talk Show, and it started off with an argument with your girlfriend, Josh.

Josh: Yeah, it feels like you want to, um, are you back on the roids? Because you're—

Tommy: well, because my voice is gone. I have not been yelling from roid rage, and I'm skinnier than I've ever been.

Josh: Really? And, and so if you're skinny, it means you don't take—

Tommy: no, you see, the, the thing with me is that I get more people referencing that I'm looking skinny than I do if I'm putting on muscle. So people are like, oh mate, what's going on? You, you, um, you've lost a lot of weight.

Josh: Is that a good thing for you or no?

Tommy: Nah, because I'm triggered from the days of being a wannabe bodybuilder where it was all about just being massive and they're basically going, you're looking like a little runt.

Josh: Yeah, if I get a weight loss thing, it's the best compliment I could get.

Tommy: Yeah, so you're good at going, oh, you're looking smaller, whereas I always wanted to be known as looking bigger.

Josh: Yeah, we're in your apartment. Bree's talk— Bree, I can't hear you 'cause you're off mic. What did you just say? Sorry? No one ever says that to me. Okay, so Bree's managed to bring her weight, uh, what's it called? What's body dysmorphia? Onto the show.

Tommy: You're looking great, Bri. You're training hard and it's showing.

Josh: I mean, that's it. Bri said thanks. Bit sleazy.

Tommy: Well, compliments are a funny thing, and I've always been wary of them. I've told you about the incident where I said to a girl— actually, it wasn't even a compliment, it was just a statement about someone's appearance. You look like— oh, have you been to the pool? No, she just had really oily hair that looked wet.

Josh: And she wasn't wearing a bikini or anything?

Tommy: No, we were just— we bumped into her at Macca's. Ah, I thought maybe you're going to Macca's after the pool.

Josh: Ah, oh, she was like, no, no, I've just been, just been working at the fryer.

Tommy: The other one that's an interesting one that I've got in my life, and I don't really sunbake anymore— I used to love a good tan. I mean, I tan quite easily anyway. I've got a little bit olive. And people would just say, oh, you're really brown. Is that a compliment or—

Josh: Yeah, it's a real compliment.

Tommy: What are they saying? Is that— No, that's just saying the color. Your hair is brown.

Josh: It's— no, I think it's a— I think there's gonna be a problem on this episode if we don't have a third microphone and Bri's talking. Yeah, yeah, just so we'll have to have— we're gonna get Bri and Amy on. Yeah, we're gonna do an episode in the next week or so.

Tommy: I was about to say we're gonna do a foursome.

Josh: Essentially, but maybe that's what we call the title of the— this is like the time— can we just bring up when you made the camera joke on Rob Ward's— this is your opportunity to—

Tommy: yeah, see, this podcast, it— when you say something in a room and it's— and there's no chance of it being edited, I feel like I said something on that podcast with Rob Ward from Quad Lock where I basically—

Josh: sounding way too serious than what this—

Tommy: well, you brought it up.

Josh: Yeah, I know, but I broke— brought it up in a joking way, uh Rob said something about me having kids or whatever, and he said he would call Bree to get the ball rolling. Yeah, and then you said, I've got the camera.

Tommy: Yeah, I've got the camera ready. And then, uh, no, because it made me feel in the moment like it was the wrong thing to say. You learn. And then I was like feeling bad about telling Amy, he's like, oh, I think I've done something, because I don't listen back to go through to find these moments. I just have what I think about what the moment was like. And that is usually the thought's so much more worse, so much worse than what actually happened. Yeah, I'm glad I can say that that's the kind of person I am.

Josh: What about this? I don't know if you got this vibe because I got a message from you saying, oh, we've got it, we should get Michelle on for the talking about trans and stuff, right? Because she sent an email. The, um, her email was, was great. She said that we, we interviewed her for episode 40 if you want to hear. I think it was episode 40.

Tommy: Callback.

Josh: You're right, hear that. But, uh, her subject line is, uh, you wouldn't survive... as a transsexual, Josh. Every time you needed to go to the loo, you'd have a panic attack, Michelle. And the funny thing was, it was like a funny observation but also like a real, uh, eye-opener in my, um, lack of awareness in the sense— or just like, um, what would you describe it? What's that thing What is that thing called? It's like, it's that thing of like, I was, it opened my eyes to actually like, this is a, like an issue for people. Like this is like, it's like being in a female toilet isn't like, haha, funny. Like for people who might be trans or shit like that. Yeah.

Tommy: Well, you were talking about how you feel anxious going and using the female toilets if you have to.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: Which you did at my office. That's what we're talking about.

Josh: And Michelle was like eye rolling really, really hard at that point.

Tommy: I think it was annoying. Nice way to point out that some other people are honestly dealing with this shit and maybe you, you're just overthinking it. But I guess we do, we think about this stuff. I remember kids in primary school, legit, this kid named Tristan never once used the toilet at school and he used to get bullied about, I think, being gay. And so it was like this aversion from using the toilets.

Josh: And, and yeah, it's all like connected probably.

Tommy: Yeah, I'm thinking it's connected. Yeah, I mean, what does his sexuality have to do with anything? But maybe there was a connection because he just didn't want to be seen to be, you know, he was an interesting young fella.

Josh: Well, the, um, I remember not wanting to take my top off in the change rooms. I was one of those weird ones at school. I'd always go into a cubicle. You'd end up getting all your fucking clothes wet in like a shower or something like that because you— because I was a little—

Tommy: Poor thing. You poor thing. What about—

Josh: Don't feel bad for me.

Tommy: What about, um, at the pool? You always wore a top. T-shirt.

Josh: Yeah, yeah, I would have always worn a t-shirt, like a rashie or whatever. But, um, that's okay. A bit of a downer.

Tommy: Did you feel shit ass?

Josh: Uh, yeah, no, I didn't like— I didn't like going to the beach, to pools, all that sort of thing. So I can, um—

Tommy: Do you ignore them and not acknowledge it? It's just like you, you move on so you don't even have to go there? Because I think about when I see really overweight people I think I think about how they, you know, I think I'm putting myself in their position. I'm going, I would be thinking about what everyone else is thinking about me. But mate, do they? When you're a bit overweight, do you think about what other people are thinking?

Josh: Yeah, but I've been— the other thing I've been thinking about lately is like how much of my view of the world is obviously just the projection of how I feel about myself. So it's like The things that like if I see someone eating really poorly or they just like, I'm like, "Oh, man, I can't believe you ate like you're eating like that." When reality is that I've been there, I've done it. And it's this trying to have empathy in those moments. We had, I was at a conference today and this is really bad because the lady did a whole bit at the beginning of saying, "Okay, everyone, I want you to chant my name." And it was, I think it wasn't Kathleen, but it was like, it was a name. She kept saying her name. And the reason was is because Everyone remembers her as she's got dwarfism. Okay. But the annoying thing is that's literally all I remember, like, because her storeys are all around that. I can't remember her name, but I remember that she's a dwarf.

Tommy: Or is it rude to say— you can't say dwarf?

Josh: No, that's fine.

Tommy: Dwarfism. So yeah, I guess, yeah, the thing that she's left versus if she just did a powerful talk about something. But maybe that's her thing, right?

Josh: But it was really interesting because it was like You— I would have loved for you to, um, hear it and all that sort of thing because it was like, it was all on interesting stuff around, um, you know, she was, she was talking about, okay, why couldn't I play, uh, you know, this role or that role? She's an actress and she was talking about all the different roles and stuff that she would just never get the part at because it's like—

Tommy: I was convinced there was dwarfs playing roles. Look at Tom Cruise, he's the smallest man in showbiz.

Josh: But no, but really there is that the weird thing that we— the projection that we have of what is normal.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: And it's a, um—

Tommy: so when you're living in it, it is very normal, is that what you're saying?

Josh: Like, no, it's more, it's more that like, okay, if we— she was bringing up points of like, oh, could that, you know, like it's made up anyway, these actors aren't actually these people.

Tommy: Yes.

Josh: So why couldn't— she was sort of saying Why couldn't we have a black actor playing someone who was meant to be white or stuff like that? Which I think is interesting because I'm like, oh, well, you want someone who just looks closest to the person, right? But, um, yeah, it was really interesting.

Tommy: I still don't quite get her point. I might look her up.

Josh: Yeah, I've done an absolutely horrendous job of explaining it. But it's essentially, it's just that idea of like we all have our own truth. Yeah, yeah. And realities. And it's that idea that what we perceive as normal.

Tommy: I've been thinking a lot about people because I've seen a lot of people going to buy cigarettes. And if you choose to smoke, so what? Good for you. Just don't flick them on the ground when I'm around because I'll flip out. I flip out a lot. But I, I watched an overweight woman, and I'm pointing this out because I'm— I was thinking of health in the moment, it wasn't just typecasting or whatever. Overweight woman who bought chocolate snacks and a pack of smokes.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: And I, and I looked at her thinking, is she thinking that I'm looking at her judging her?

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: Because I probably was a little bit in the moment, which is not— I don't— it's a— it's definitely a default of going, oh, look at this unhealthy person.

Josh: Yeah. I wonder how you can switch, how you can change that.

Tommy: Yeah, because it wasn't like— when I think about that, I'm an asshole for being a judgy piece of shit because there's probably stuff I do that I could judge 100%. It could be. But it was a thought, like a, I guess, a connection I made straight away. But then I was thinking about that. I sort of took it from that going, I wonder how they feel about the whole smoking thing. Do they think about when they are buying it I was thinking about it.

Josh: I think—

Tommy: You want to start smoking?

Josh: No. No, but I was thinking after hearing this presentation, the thing that I was thinking about is like she's talking about hot people, you know, what it is to be hot. And I was thinking, I reckon I actually am nicer.

Tommy: I thought you were going to say hot. I am hot.

Josh: No, I reckon is like I reckon I am nicer to good-looking people.

Mason: Unconsciously.

Josh: I think that I, I think that there's something that it's—

Tommy: What does a good-looking person consist of besides visually what you're seeing? What are the, what are the traits? What's a—

Josh: I don't know if a dude is like tall.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: Uh, if they're sort of, uh, skinny, tall, I think that like athletic. I don't know, like, so they can actually—

Tommy: I was on your Audible just before listening to Jordan Peterson's book.

Mason: Yeah, I saw you're 15 minutes in.

Tommy: Then you turn it off. Yeah, listen to the first chapter. He talks about the lobster thing, um, and he's looking at lobsters in reference to their hierarchical structure and their neurological system and how it's similar to other species like ourselves. But he is talking about people who, uh, uh, number one or high performers or whatever. So there's a bunch of traits, good-looking people. So for— there is things like a high level of serotonin in their body which helps someone hold themselves really strong. And I guess there's a lot more things that contribute to that good-looking person, you know. Like, think about like a, a dark good-looking person, like a Johnny Depp. He's kind of like— he battles that dude, I think. And he's like a— it's a bit dark looking. Or the I'm talking men here, the high, you know, holding themselves up like The Rock. The Rock's probably not the traditional hot male, but he's got all the other things going for him. Yeah, that add to it. So I think you saying that I give priority, or what's it— what, how'd you frame that? You give— I just said that I give attention to those people more.

Josh: So I feel like I'm nicer to hotter people.

Tommy: Yeah, so you're nicer to hotter people, but I think there's actually something going on there, that's honestly, can you believe it?

Josh: Like, if they've got a nice smile or if they seem friend— Like, I think that we don't say they're hot, but we're like, geez, that person was really nice. Like, we've had people over and it's like, man, that dude was like, wasn't he just like a nice dude?

Tommy: But what I'm trying to say—

Josh: It just also happened that he like had like nice hair and was well dressed.

Tommy: But what I'm saying is that along with these good looks or whatever, there's other attributes like the high levels of serotonin and the shoulders back, standing tall.

Josh: I feel like we're completely out of our—

Tommy: No, but I, I don't think so.

Josh: Yeah, I get what you mean.

Tommy: So what I'm saying is there's other things at play. I don't know what those things are. There are, there are a bunch of different things.

Josh: Well, the idea is that if you are good-looking, then potentially you, um, your self-esteem is going to be high, which means all these other things, which means you get picked in the sporting teams and you get, you know, you make friends easier. And then all of it, it's this sort of self-fulfilling prophecy.

Tommy: Do you think you're good looking?

Josh: Nah.

Tommy: On a self-esteem level, not just this vain—

Josh: No, I think that I've— I think my personality is okay. I think that I've, um, I think that because I'm not that good looking, I've spent maybe time being interested in other people, which people like that I'm interested in other people and I'm interested in them. Do you think you're good looking?

Tommy: I think from—

Josh: Oh, here we go. Go on.

Tommy: Just one thing before I take it to me. I, I— You two, as in I'm looking right now at Josh and Bree, because Bree's sitting next to him. You two are better looking. I said this to you yesterday. You two are better looking than you've ever been.

Josh: But isn't that such a funny thing that that's even a compliment? Because it's not really something we can control, is it?

Tommy: No, but I think you've grown into yourselves. Whereas like, I look at Amy from years ago and I look at me, I look like a dweeb. So did Amy. And I see she's like fine wine, better with age.

Josh: So what's— what are the attributes? What are you looking at where it's like, oh, you are better looking?

Tommy: I don't know, you guys are a bit more groomed. Maybe you'd come into yourselves.

Josh: Like, I literally went and got a $15 Just Cuts.

Tommy: Don't knock Just Cuts, they could be a sponsor one day.

Josh: Yeah, they actually are. They're paying for my— no, go on.

Tommy: From a visual point of view, obviously you've changed a lot since you were a kid, which you look like you, you've got your shit together.

Josh: Oh, that's nice, thank you.

Tommy: You both do. You both are attractive.

Josh: So do you think you're good looking, Pete?

Tommy: I think from I definitely don't think I'm ugly. I've always felt— I know what you're looking for.

Josh: What's Bree trying to say?

Tommy: Bree wants to really make a comment.

Mason: No, because I was just thinking everything that you were saying, I feel like is incorrect. Like it's not true.

Tommy: Oh la la.

Mason: It was outrageous listening to you say that you— I can feel you. Don't touch the mic. One sec. Let me say. No, I think where you were saying that you think you're nice, sexual attraction. Attractive people. You're nice to everybody. Anybody that shows you kindness, or anybody— you're, you're a nice person. And you're— any person that shows that has a good personal attributes of a good person, that's friendly or kind, or anyone that even just shows you, communicates with you, you are a nice person to them. And you are attractive. And I feel like you particularly, since your whole thing is rebrand— yeah, you do feel good about yourself, and you do feel like you are attractive now. And that's okay.

Tommy: Can I get comment from you, Josh?

Josh: There was a tiny bit of static in a bit of the audio because Bree's phone was on the cable, but I fixed that. No, I agree. I think that the thing is that I do like anyone that's nice to me.

Mason: Yeah, but the people's looks, like, I felt like it was such an untrue thing that you said.

Josh: No, but I think that there is a super, super, super unconscious thing that goes on. That I can't even, but maybe, I don't know, like I'm definitely, it's hard to, like maybe there, it's something that's like super like unconscious. I'm trying to like tap into, and this is the thing with the podcast is it's like I'm deconstructing thoughts that I haven't even fully synthesised. But I think that there is, it's that thing where I'm like, oh, I look back at the people that, like, maybe it's the other way around. Maybe I actually, maybe the people that I like, I think are better looking than what they are. I don't know.

Tommy: So, okay, I guess I've got to answer the question. The thing is, it's like we're asking this in a safe space where it's like you don't want to be seen to be a wanker. I don't think you can— I think you can think you're good looking and have the wanker bit left out.

Josh: I have da— how about this? I have days where I'm like, oh man, yeah, that was a good photo. Like, I have good moments. That photo that you took of me in behind the teddy bear, I was like, oh shit, yeah, I don't actually look like a, like, disgusting there.

Tommy: Yeah, I mean, I have those days too. I don't think I am unattractive. I've had enough affirmation of being attractive from people in my life that would give me the thought of I probably am. It's—

Josh: No, that's fair. No, I think you're a good-looking dude. I think you've got things that I look at, like you've got very full hair, wherever I've got sort of pathetic hair.

Tommy: Keep nodding, Brits. I appreciate it.

Josh: Now, you've got really good thick hair.

Tommy: Oh, thanks, mate.

Josh: It feels like you could get a haircut anywhere. You could even not cut your hair and it would look that good.

Tommy: I've written in our, um, Trello content diary about being perved on.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: And I was thinking about—

Josh: never happened. That's never happened to me.

Tommy: You don't feel that?

Josh: No. Um, actually, uh, maybe like in— there was like a time in Vegas or something with like an older ladies or something. Like, I feel like there was one.

Tommy: Like, I feel I've been to gay clubs before and I feel like how women would feel when there's a bunch of, um, tradies and you walk past them and they're just like, ooh la la. Yeah, and I, I know the feeling of how uncomfortable it makes you feel being a piece of meat at a gay club. If I've experienced that, but I've even experienced that from women.

Josh: I feel that you're just completely over the top towards me. It's, um, I'm even thinking about the Hot Stuff I think Bri's right. Like, the more I think about it, the more it's like I realise that, yeah, maybe it's not. But the thing is, it's maybe not even the way that I act, but I think that I just give people the benefit. I don't know, it's very—

Tommy: I mean, if you're leading with the thoughts of your looks, it's definitely— I think that's a dangerous place because you end up being an Instagram model. Bri wants to come back, and welcome back to the show, Bri.

Mason: Thanks. No, I was also just thinking it's not only— you're not not only nice people that show you kindness, but even people that sort of are negative towards you or sort of have beef or something with you. For example, I can't think of any clear one for the moment, but I feel like you have a really good way of communicating with that person in a calm and kind way. Like, there's nothing about you— like, I just— just, yeah. Do you understand what I'm saying?

Josh: I think I do have like a level of empathy. I think that's what it is. I've got like a level of empathy, but within that empathy, I also am just thinking, I'm like, oh man, um, maybe that— what are you doing, Bri? Your phone?

Tommy: I think for some good-looking people, there's some dangers in having the thoughts around that you are— like, I think there's patterns. Like, I've got friends I— who are super good-looking, and I, um, and I can just see some, some of what's happened based around the response they've been getting all their life. And I can see that it can be dangerous. Yeah, if it's what you focus on. That's why it's like if someone says, oh, should I be a model? It's like, it's a dangerous slope I feel to go on.

Josh: Did you ever do modeling?

Tommy: Nah, I don't have a model look. That's what they told me when I was trying. But I don't— like, you know, I, I can't— I, I hate the thought of modeling. I'd rather be on video. I think the thing being animated and actually being a whole person, yeah, versus whatever you need to portray in a photo.

Josh: I think the thing is that if I was to distil it down, what I've identified with myself that I have— I'll never express it, but I have negative thoughts about people and the choices that they make in my head, and I'm quite negative about it. I don't express that, but I think my learning has been, I think that it is actually coming from a self-negate. Like, I am as just as hard as on myself as I am on others. Yeah.

Tommy: And so, I mean, that's why I go to you as the, uh, resident ex-fat guy, because there's a lot of things that come with that. I've never experienced that in my life.

Josh: But the other thing too is what I've been thinking about is I was even like thinking about yesterday and I go do this whole reference of like, oh, I'm the 100, oh, remember I was 120 kg, JJ. Like there are like a lot of people who might be 120 kilometers, no, kilograms.

Tommy: Yes.

Josh: And, or, you know, bigger. And I think that maybe, I think the thing that I'm uncomfortable with is that I'm like looking back and being like, oh geez, like, Even the conversation with you being like, man, you're so refined now, and all that sort of thing. I think that we're painting quite a negative picture, which is that so much of our worth could be attached to that. Whereas I think that I am like— I think the sad bit is I feel like I'm the same person. I think that, um, yeah, I don't think that the even things like I talk about the rebrand, like rebrand and all that sort of thing. There's a bit of— there's a sad part of me which is like that, that I have had to do this, that I've had to— that through all the, the negative or the self-loathing about how I look and how I feel about myself, that I am now— does that make sense?

Tommy: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I get it.

Josh: And so I think that there is—

Tommy: I mean, we're all in our own journeys and it's all equivalent It's all relevant to the individual, however they see it.

Josh: I mean, and the other thing too is the— I think that the other distinction is those—

Mason: the—

Josh: I'm talking about first impressions as well, right? Like, I think that it's easy when you see someone smiling or something like that, it's easier. But it's also—

Tommy: I'm a smiley kind of guy. Yeah, I remember a woman at the gym, she said, why are you always smiling?

Josh: Why were you— for real, why were you always smiling?

Tommy: I was on drugs. No, but I was just smiling. I just smiled at the gym. It's like if you're around people—

Josh: she asked you how long ago was this?

Tommy: Uh, years ago when I was young, like 19, 20. But I was just working, working at the gym. I smile at heaps of people. It's a, um, yes, getting— smiling at people, you do get some interesting responses because they're reading it Because people read— like, even Amy was telling me, and I'll get her to tell this storey one day on the show, she was like, oh yeah, I'm gonna smile at more people. And, you know, and she wasn't smiling at men for a while, and then she started smiling at men, and she got a few pests really from it. It's weird because it's like, why the— why would you think that a smile's an invitation for any kind of interaction beyond Smile back high. Yeah, but I get it. It's like maybe how we all read body language and how we're looking and handshakes is— it's fascinating what it's doing to someone else's mind.

Josh: Did you ever get into NLP? Did you ever do anything?

Tommy: Neuro-linguistic programming? Yeah, it was another $3,000 on top of the $5,000 that I spent my life coaching.

Josh: So you never did it?

Tommy: Never did it.

Josh: I was— I was talking to, um, Jason Fox like a couple of days ago about it. Yeah, just being like, ah, look, I know it's a bit gross, but what's like— tell me the principles.

Tommy: He's a—

Josh: I know, so he was like, it's like there's some good sides to it, but it's also really gross. But he was explaining some of the different things about how to— so like if I'm talking to— I can— it's boring to explain.

Tommy: Yeah, so it's like there's bits in it that help you build rapport really quickly with somebody.

Josh: I think the best way to build rapport is just being like a nice human.

Tommy: But maybe there's a whole bunch of things that are natural to people. Like, you notice, like, you're in a conversation, you end up crossing your legs like they're crossing their legs half the time. And I, I just catch myself like, oh, look at this, I'm mirroring this person's body language.

Josh: It's funny when you see people doing it deliberately, like at job interviews or stuff like that.

Tommy: There's a fine line between looking like a weirdo trying to place you hand on their shoulder as he says something profound to then anchor that feeling to the moment. But I mean, we should— it would be great to have someone on who's an NLP master.

Josh: Do you have any luck getting that medium guy that you're going to?

Tommy: Oh, Charlie Goldsmith. We're trying to. We will, but I think it's, I think it's going to be a bit tricky. Yeah, it's a bit locked down with his TV show, I think.

Josh: Yeah, and he probably listened to our bullshit and he's like, mate, I'm not going on these. Um, Before, when we're on our way here, there was a guy that got out of a car to yell at the other dude.

Tommy: That's full-on to get out. Why did he get out? How much?

Josh: No idea what happened, but what it got me thinking, I was, I had another issue that I've had at the moment is my phone is always on low battery. I just like, I'm—

Tommy: What's your problem?

Josh: I have no idea. I just, I'm not winning at life at the moment when it comes to—

Tommy: Did you charge it overnight?

Josh: I charged it overnight, but I've been getting up at 5 AM. So, and so right now I'm at less than 10% battery.

Tommy: Yeah, but do you realise how much you look at your phone? It adds to it. I haven't charged. Oh no, because I've been in the car today.

Josh: Yeah, well, I don't have a charger in the car at the moment. But anyway, so I didn't have enough battery to be able to film the altercation, but I was like, Bree, get the phone out. But it made me realise that I'm 100% a guy who is a dash cam guy. I need a dash cam because I'd be just capturing shit all the time.

Tommy: Get one.

Josh: I'd literally just go on drives. Yeah, I'd literally just be like, you know what, I'm just going to jump on the Monash this morning, see what we can get.

Tommy: Well, I think it's the problem though, it's like cyclists— I don't— not all you cyclists listening, it's not always you, but you get the— there was a meme about like, gets, you know, cyclist gets helmet cam, starts looking for looking for trouble, finds it.

Josh: I think the thing is, I'm fine with that because the thing is, if anything, it could probably like shift the power a little bit into the cyclist because the reality is that they're on like a bike and you're in a car. Yeah. You could do a lot more fucking damage being in the car than the bike. So if the camera is going to stop them from like getting killed or run over.

Tommy: You've heard the theory of that we are like in a heightened sense of, um, like a heightened state when we're driving. That's all around, um, because it's like so dangerous and we are registering the danger. Yeah, that's then sending us into this hyper-awareness. I know, that's like triggering and making us all like on the edge. So it's like when you see all these people just like, like, you know, I'm sure you've been it, I've been it at some point.

Josh: Weaving through traffic.

Tommy: Bullshit, mate. It's like we're all so ready for, ready for a fight action because we're so afraid of getting killed.

Josh: I've been thinking, so I was catching up with my mate Keegs the other day on a Sunday, and it was Saturday, Saturday, and he was running late and he's like, oh, sorry, man, um, it's traffic's bad out of Moorabbin. So anyway, didn't really understand what I'm like, what is he doing in Moorabbin? He's learning to fly. He's becoming a— Getting his pilot's licence.

Tommy: Fuck, that's cool.

Josh: Yeah. I thought it was sick. I was like, man, what's the deal? Like, how much does it cost? And he was like, I think it was $400 an hour. And I think like to get your recreational licence, it was, I don't know, I think it worked out that you had to do like 20 hours or 40 hours or something. Like it was about $15,000 to get your licence, which Like to get your recreational license, which I actually thought was cheaper than what I thought. Like I imagined it would like be $50,000 plus.

Tommy: Interesting. I, when I was PTing, I had a client that I had two clients that have now got their pilot licences and they fly over Melbourne sometimes, but he would always be like nicking off after training to go to a, um—

Josh: It's so interesting. He said that he's like, oh, sorry man, I was late. I, uh, failed the landing 4 times, so we had to just keep doing it.

Tommy: Interesting.

Josh: But I just don't know, I just, I wonder what I would do in that state. It was like the other day I was saying how when I was saying something nice to Hamish at the end of the podcast, my ears would ring. I feel like if, if my ears ring at something like that, like, can I be trusted on a plane?

Tommy: Why they're ringing? What's, what's the thought?

Josh: I have no idea, but does that ever happen to you? Like If I say something, if I was to actually like get into an emotional state where I'm saying something really nice to you.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: My ears will ring. Like it would like painful, like really loud.

Tommy: Does it happen when you whisper in Bree's ear that you love her?

Josh: No, because it's only short. But if I had to, if I had to read something out or if it was like—

Tommy: That's interesting. I wonder what the hell's happening there.

Josh: What is— What do you think that means?

Tommy: Well, it's— What's going on?

Josh: So I sort of worry that if, if I can't control my body in that state of just saying something nice to someone, I don't know, maybe it's more functional.

Tommy: Maybe it's just more systematic to land a plane than give someone a compliment.

Josh: Can someone send us an email if this happens? Actually, let's go into— Should we do some— Do email stuff? Um, Trevor, Trevor Long emailed and said that I had sort of said a disclaimer at yesterday's episode where I was like, um, the basically we're talking shit, and he was like, mate, that's my favourite episode, which was nice.

Tommy: Well, Trevor, cop this episode, mate, because we've been talking shit.

Josh: Yeah, this is, uh, you'll probably say not this sort of shit. Can we— do we have time for Wednesday now, or have you got to go?

Tommy: No, I've got to go pick up my son. I've ignored— when I've ignored 2 calls from my wife.

Josh: I thought you were going to say 2 calls from Bodhi. Yeah, we're currently in St. Kilda at Tommy's apartment. And yeah, this is a very last-minute show and you got to go pick up Amy. So, we better go. But please send us your emails, hi@thedailytalkshow.com. And here's something that would be really nice. Actually, this feels like it was a bit of a shit episode in the sense of I started talking about something that I was sort of hypothesising and then by the end of it, I didn't actually believe the start. So, it's an annoying thing of like you've got to get to this point to realise my full thought. And there's going to be heaps of people who are like probably listen to the first bit and being like, "This guy's a fucking idiot." Anyway, don't recommend this to Epp.

Mason: No.

Josh: I was initially going to say it would be really nice if you did a social media post. If you are listening and enjoying, do a social media post.

Tommy: It still stands. Still stands. I'll be back next week with a better voice because, yeah, you've—

Josh: you're fucked. All right everyone, it's the Daily Talk Show. Enjoy your weekend. We've, uh, starting from in a week and a half's time, uh, I'll be doing this show remotely while I travel, which will be great.

Tommy: International.

Josh: We'll only be doing 4 during that time. We'll be doing 4 of these types of episodes a week, and then every Friday we're going to have an interview with someone. And we're starting to get the interviews at the moment, and we've got that we're interviewing on the weekend. Yeah, who, uh, is gonna be great.

Tommy: I've got two locked in next week too.

Josh: Amazing. I've been sliding into people's DMs.

Tommy: It's all about sliding in. I also, uh, that sounded wrong.

Josh: You did. I, uh, emailed Peter Hitchener, try and get him on, who's a Melbourne, uh, newsreader that people love and I love. All right everyone, have a good one.

Tommy: See you guys.

Josh: See you Monday. Bye.