#107 – Peter Shepherd and the quarter-life crisis/

0:07
Cross face

0:11
conversation sometimes worth recording with Josh Johnson and Tommy jacket, Episode 107. Wow. The Daily talk show. Well done. And that deep voice you can hear is our special guests that I paid a shepherd. That's me. Thanks, guys for having me. Yeah,

0:28
you know, I we aim out. How long ago was it now? Three weeks? Yeah. Yeah.

0:32
It seems like it was

0:34
how many people Josh has got the I made him on the internet story with. Okay. It's It's nearly all of you sprint. It's even Josh and I pretty much I reckon I drop you an inbox. Yeah, yeah,

0:44
you gotta say, Hey, man, don't sleep

0:51
so close

0:53
to my day.

0:54
Sounds like you open the application and found me on the day.

0:59
So that was really cool. Because I remember I was I was on Facebook, scrolling past I saw Seth garden and I'd never seen him with a good in his classic setup, where he's got his books behind and all that sort of thing. And there was some other dude and he had similar glasses to what I used to have as I know what's gonna what's going on is this guy who's this guy give a bit of a click here. Aussie accent Oh. And I was like, what's going on? It was it was a paid a shepherd. And so anyway, so you were you were on it was like he's live streamed Yeah,

1:34
like a Facebook Live, I think a couple times a month. And I was lucky enough to be in New York at the time and doing some work with his MBA with the with the alumni crew, and they take me up to to go on into to play a part in basically listening to some of Seth's wisdom which was, which was really cool. Um,

1:53
well, Josh has also slid into someone else's day. Oh, I

1:56
I tend to a mile set. Like everything time I've had something big in my life. Yeah, first person I email because he writes, it is actually the most reliable person on a male, Seth Godin. Yeah,

2:07
he literally crazy for a dude he replies and his level

2:11
to be reply. Every suit. Like I remember listening to the Icarus deception is that Icarus? What's the curse? Whatever it is, you know, I was listening to his book. Yeah, audio form. And that was the day that I quit my job at the radio station. Oh, I wonder how many times he gets that words. It's like, it's always like, oh, cool, man. Good luck. Like the funny

2:36
Josh and I am I've done that too. And we literally read out Joshua's email that he sent to Seth about quitting and then I read out the one I sent a Lewis house proving that Duda years ago or very similar

2:49
so it's almost a template email they love that that's the first thing you do is like an email my

2:55
go to jump into the dams. But no, I asked Seth How would you describe pay to ship it and he says you're paid is the real deal the sort of person you'd want to be in a in the boat if you were going on a long swim in uncharted waters.

3:11
Is that serious? Serious? I couldn't believe that he wrote

3:15
back I sent that I sent that email on Thursday at 9:23pm. He wrote back at 9:26pm or took him three months. He was like, he's like, I'm gonna I'm definitely gonna have something to say. I know

3:31
Josh had emailed him two weeks ago and he didn't reply

3:34
So tell me about Tommy

3:38
never messaged me.

3:40
I mean, that's

3:42
that's pretty that's pretty sick, to have someone like Seth who is respected you know, and he's is so well respected within marketing and with it and business to have have those words from him. Yeah,

3:55
that you might get you the screenshot,

4:00
what is I mean, is that a big deal for you? Like, that's your relationship. He said.

4:04
So I work as part of the NBA, which is he's, but he's built it up to a point where he's essentially empowered a team to run for him. So my relationship with him is I've met him a couple of times, but don't deal with him directly. that much. Yeah. Instead dealing with Kelly would is the name of the of the lady who runs the coaching fraternity that is all the coaching Brigade, if you're likely it is within all MBA, and so she deals with Seth a lot directly, but I don't actually do within that month.

4:31
And did you do the old NBA? Yeah, I gather that I was watching you talking about it. Yeah. I mentioned your brother was doing

4:39
real MBA. Yeah, so I did it in the traditional MBA. Yeah, yeah. So

4:43
I was doing it. I think it was my last year I had a, like, a quarter life crisis moment as you do when you're 27 at the time. But did you email safe? Yeah,

4:53
I just applied to we sell to me. I was like, he'll fix everything.

4:56
I took five weeks off my job. So it's a four week workshop took forever. My job moved back down home to Ocean Grove. Norman Deborah? Why? So I was like, at the beach on my own and just kind of immerse myself listening to my music

5:10
candles. That was what was it? What was out NBA? Like, how do you describe it? It's a good question. It's a, it's kind of hard to describe. It's like, it's unlike any other learning experience I've had, which I think is a good thing. So it's all online as 100 leaders from right around the world that all sort of work together and sprint essentially for four weeks, and you deliver 13 projects over those four weeks. So it's like high intensity highly collaborative learning with no grades. No, teachers know, like, instruction on this is exactly what you need to do. Instead, there's coaches and guides along the way, which is kind of completely different and kind of crazy, but it just works. Is there a file a pass? Or is it Okay, so that's so there's no, I mean, do the work? Yeah,

5:53
otherwise loving this idea? Because he's

5:57
about having to fucking get 90%,

6:00
please. Yeah. And so is this something that you literally have to have nothing on? not do it? Yeah.

6:05
So if you do every five way, so

6:07
when I do it, I think but there are people that do full time. In fact, most people who are full time I was the exception of the road because I had a good laugh crosses. But also when I do a year ago, there was no Australian timezone. So it's designed to be like, 6pm in New York, or 6pm in San Francisco, so that you can do it after work, you know? Sure, exactly. Do you mean that people generally do it part time or most people full time? So it's full time work? full time study? It's like,

6:31
sure. Yeah.

6:32
So usually people work full time. And then like, yeah, between 6pm and kind of midnight. Okay, so you went to the US people? Yeah, yeah, so I did that. It was like, you know, 2am I was like, Well, I'm not gonna go to work the next day. Um, I so I took the week, the month off. And since then we've got a we've now got an Australian timezone. So it's based in Sydney time, or Sydney time, you just Melvin time. And so it's Yeah, 6pm on Wednesday, 6pm on a Friday, and then all day Sunday, what projects did you do? So there's 13, they they changed a little bit every time but they more or less stay the same. And we don't necessarily release the curriculum, which is very deliberate for a few reasons. So set. So to talks about that, if you read the curriculum, you'd probably look at it and go, Oh, yeah, I get it. I don't need to do that. Yeah. But it's like the process of going through that in the pressure cooker, getting feedback of ups, and then reflecting on that. So there's like a three stage process, I guess, you do the project, you get feedback from your peers. And then you sort of write a reflection script, which is, here's what I learned. So here's what I changed my mind about based on the feedback and you do that three times within a week, over four weeks. So the projects are many and varied from videos to like, writing a blog post kind of thing, and putting an assertion out there. And they they are kind of general enough that everybody approaches it in a little bit of a different way, which is quite cool. And MBA, what's the what's the real difference? I've got some friends doing every night MBA, saving stressed and

7:58
over it, because the length of wasn't too too easily use,

8:01
I think. Yeah, and I think so there was a student we had recently who described he was doing the NBA and the MBA at the same time. And he was saying,

8:08
All right,

8:10
I do working full time they just showing off,

8:12
but he was saying the NBA, he feels like he's preparing him for, like the business world of yesterday. Hmm. Whereas the lamb is like, let's get real, let's do this in a month. And let's prepare you for the world of now. Which is, you know, the gig economy and this idea that anyone can do anything if you really want to you just can't work out

8:28
what's I mean, for me I got paid very little to do essentially the amount of content Josh and I are doing and we do it for free and so the driver for me at that point was sure money but and an opportunity but now it's like we've created this opportunity and Josh and I always talk about like what was the thing you said the other day about the break the bar yeah be Greg I think it's um, what we're talking about was having getting the big break or whatever and what I was saying is like this is you know, it was sort of making sure that all both aligned on what we're doing and what I said is like this is the big break like the sees the thing that we're doing and we're at the start of that yeah but we're not waiting and I guess it's sort of Seth's mentality around the talks about him poke the box which is don't wait to be picked Yeah right. Yeah. And so that's something that I really believe in which is we're not creating this podcast so we get a radio show yeah we're not doing YouTube videos to get on TV this is the thing this is the platform and where we want to own it all you know what we're not get we don't want not that we've got like venture capitalists

9:39
way

9:40
what Peter is isn't it,

9:44
it's gonna give an offer myself, we actually we did see an article where it said something like the

9:50
the growth of podcasting over the next five years was going to be like in Australia was gonna be 150 million dollars and tell me when I said like, Oh, that's that's a salary What about

10:02
Yeah, just on that point, though, I seem to recall I think he talked about it with it was with Hamish which was like doing things for the sake of doing them because you enjoy it and you want to own it, but also not being so attached to it that you like you can be open enough to see where it ends up. Yeah, there might be something down the track that you had to go through 150 episodes of my gas to get to see that opportunity. I thought that was a really, really cool point. Yeah,

10:24
I mean, that's a reoccurring theme on quite a few now. And I find it almost it when I'm in a state of feeling a bit frustrated with where I'm at. That's a really hard thing to swallow. Thinking. you telling me this is not easy. And this hurts. Yeah. It's, it's a it's like this, like this. Yeah, this alternate world that you're thinking about? Yeah. And it really puts me down

10:49
I think it's, it's the thing of the thing that we think that we I think we're really bad maybe working out what we want. It's scary, I think. Yeah. What's it's like, I think it's, it's a classic case of people say they want to be they come out of film school and they say they want to make a Hollywood film. Yeah, well, it's like, what is the actual for me it's about like, falling in love with the process. Like you actually have to enjoy doing the thing and for me, it's also about the default thinking and what we're actually like that default thinking of Hollywood or even like with Tommy and my new business, it's like the default thinking is that we need an office and we need all this sort of stuff and it's like actually yeah, maybe like if if if our if our

11:35
advantage is that we a nimble Yeah, I would we go and spend money on this or have have that yeah, it's

11:42
like we're so conditioned to behave and actors and thinking a certain way you mentioned quarter quarter life crisis. Howdy

11:47
2828. Yeah,

11:50
same as I think it No, I think it's like we're all in the middle I'm 27 my offended

11:55
so and so much and as I owe you quarter life crisis Oh, so I said something was like saying that our older than I were like halfway in midlife crisis. Many you did in another 40 years have a bit. She was only 30 or so anyways. completely ruined. Oh, what does that look like for you or anyone to what happened in your world toward a quarter life crisis? Yeah, so I, as I

12:17
said, I did the lamb I took some time off. And in going through the process and whether it was the NBA combine, I think it was obviously combined with the fact that had a lot of time to think and to just reflect on a lot of stuff that we just talked about, around, you know, what is it that I want to work towards? What is it that I want to achieve? I was in a, quite a well paying job in quite a well established company as part of the the quantum group doing some good work. But there was like, there was something missing for me. And I was like, What is it? What is it? What is what was wrong? What were you doing, I was doing like a, like a head of client engagement for a project that we're working on. So we're doing like a business transformation project, which was bringing in a new software, it was like a tech based kind of project, which I thought was really cool at the time. And it was, and I got to liaise with a bunch of clients and fly around Australia and do all that. And, you know, from looking on the outside in, you might say, that's a good job, you know, this guy's doing quite well. He's only 27, and he's doing this and this and that. But for me, it was like, it was never the end, it was never the thing that I wanted to be doing. And so what I began to sort of work out was

13:21
like, or think about was, what am I working towards, and if there is something that I'm working towards, which for me, ultimately came down to being able to own my own time being able to work for myself into projects and people that I want to work with,

13:34
by my own choice, because I've been, they've been forced upon me. So then it was like, Okay, what does that look like? And what what are you waiting for in order to make that happen?

13:43
And then over the last 12 months, I've sort of been unpacking that to get to where I am now. And does it feel like he getting closer towards that, like actually putting that process into play? Does that get you there? Yeah, I think so. I think I would now so I am now you know, the mouth, my own university that I have my own business, which is human Periscope, Periscope, coaching,

14:06
and is something that I have focused on solely full time for sort of the last couple of months, three months in particular, prior to that, it was like a side project. And I had another job. So I left that job that I was talking about when help to guide the startup as a contractor and helped him build this kind of startup up until maybe the startup flops for me, and then quickly realized that no, it wasn't, because, again, I was working for someone else, the founders, and yeah, we just weren't quite aligning in where I want to spend my time and where he wants to spend his time. And, and also had the ultimate work I was also doing as a coach. And then I was coaching people on the side as well as part of kind of a natural thing that kind of happened. So I had like, three jobs essentially. And, and so part of me working out well, the one thing that I want to do is be our own time. So I need to let one or two of these go. And the one was working for someone else, which was the startup at the time, but totally amicable and we shook hands and we still speak regularly. So what's the thought process? It's like, what, what were the number one fees, making that jump? I think the number one fear is, it comes down to something that I like to speak about a lot. And I think you guys are spoken about is imposter syndrome of one. Well, who am I to start my own business? Who am I to pick the clients that I want to work with? And how the hell am I going to make that happen? Like that story that we start to tell ourselves and the day felt that you talked about of, but you meant to have a career, you meant to have a steady income you meant to work and work and work, you know, get married? have kids? Yeah, leave that dream. And I was just like, No, I don't want to do that. So the fear camp comes from, well, how do I make this work on my own? Yeah, because no one's gonna help me responsible except for myself. Yeah, and it's,

15:39
it's that thing is well, of identifying whether the thing that we want now is what we want, or whether it's a trend, you know, like, there's probably like startup land has sort of fallen into that trap. Now, where, like, having a startup is an accessory? Yeah, what was what was the process in identifying easiest actually what I really want? Or is this the thing The world is telling me that I want? Yeah, it's

16:03
a great question. I, I think the way that I unpack that, for me was,

16:09
it was looking at my relationship to money, to be honest. So it was I could stay involved in a start up, get some equity, have a salary, and potentially, you know, if the story that you tell yourself is this startup goes really well, when you make a bunch of money? That's awesome. Fingers crossed, fingers crossed. Yeah, that's great. If I go out on my own, and I'm a freelance, there's no guarantee of anything. And so for me, it was like, well, what's, what does that look like? Do you care? Either way? Like, if you had $10 million on the table right now, which way would you go? And like, without even thinking I would, I just knew I was like, well, I want to go into my own thing. I want to be a freelancer and want to try and build my own business. In which case that's kind of your answer. Yeah, scary. Yes. Really,

16:50
the whole journey scary. Josh? And I, I think on episode one, we kind of introduced each other. Yeah. Which is probably the easier option to go with it. When someone asks you what, tell me about yourself, that can be worse, that can be tough. And Josh said that I was an entrepreneur and I was kind of, I think, I probably wouldn't identify that as myself. And I totally get what you mean. It's like I'm probably having more of an entrepreneur approach or mindset versus have done anything that's super entrepreneurial building something much bigger than myself. Yeah. What do you and I've been obsessed with one of the episodes of akimbo which is, this is my bout of freelancers.

17:29
How good is that? So that's one of the few podcast episodes that I listened to master been like five or six times usually

17:38
told to do and I mean, I think you're you think about a lot of that stuff anyway. But the around what do you think in this landscape now have so many entrepreneurs or people calling themselves entrepreneurs vis freelances? What do you What's your thoughts around that? Yeah,

17:53
it's fascinating. Because I for whatever reason, the the word Freelancer felt a bit dirty to me at the time. Yeah, or months ago, it sort of I was like, oh, to me, a freelancer is like someone who's designing logos that you get on fiber, and you pay 10 bucks. And that's that's a freelancer. So I was like, I don't know what that that's not me. And then I heard that podcasts. And the distinction he made, which was basically an entrepreneur is someone who makes money in their sleep based on something they've built. Yeah, and he's kind of building it up to sell it off, to move on to the next thing, or building it up to a point where someone else can run it. Whereas a freelancer is someone who is they are the product to a degree, like their expertise, their knowledge, their service that they're providing is the thing and so it's that time. And so when I heard that, I was like, Well, I guess I am a freelancer, in which case I need to let go of all those badges and, you know, accolades of all the stories that we tell, again, around being an entrepreneur,

18:48
I think the danger in the blurring the lines of thinking that you're trying to build and I know I've done that with my business and thinking, How can I sort of streamline processes to get other people to to work. But then in that podcast, he talks about you blurring the line there for probably delivering and less no less product because it's not you doing it? Yes. And then you hire yourself again. So you become this middle person between Freelancer and entrepreneur when you're the cheapest, obviously, the higher your resort to yourself again. Well, I

19:19
think it's also this idea that if you be that your true self upfront, if you communicate and distill what you do in a truthful way, then there's no surprises, right? Like, how many I know that when I started, you know, my first business when I was, you know, 14 years old, and you'd go to the website, and I did everything, right. It's like, TV, commercials, films. TV, yeah, and the least the least. But the thing is, I hadn't done any of that. But I'm like, this is what I'm going to do. I think that what's interesting at play and you talk about on your blog, which is

19:55
rather than talking about fake it till you make it It's as if Yeah, act as if and I think that the as powerful you know, as titles are just titles and labels are just labels and the clothes we wear or just the clothes that we wear, we can add meaning to these things and we choose whether we add meaning or not. And so my short like I make some choices where it's like, I know that the clothes I wear doesn't define me or whatever but if it flicks something in my brain to make me think in a different way yeah I'm going to do it so may dressing as if I'm fucking Steve Jobs which let's put it the elephant in the room. I have Steve Jobs glasses I've got a bottle was he is that this is a way we, we sell a soda is maybe being sick. But the thing is, that it's I think that it's, it's, it's fine to be able to do that. I think getting obsessed with labels. I think that there's a lot of people who love the idea that they romanticize being a writer and being at the desk and all that sort of thing. But the actual and they even by a writer on the Mac in their faculty. It looks great. All

21:10
right, right. It's just like, yeah, I've arrived. Guys,

21:14
I'm a writer. Now. I've updated my Twitter bio, it's like, what else? What more can I That's right. I can add h1 tag on my website. And I'm a Radha because, you know, from SEO, yeah, another great episode that set in stone about SEO as well. But I think that with any piece of advice there is it's there's a paradox where the opposite can also be true. Yeah. Which I find interesting as well. What What's something that you thought was true? This is a fact this is a Tim Ferriss question. It's, it's sorry, Steve is gone?

21:53
Tim Ferriss,

21:55
Tim Ferriss asked this question a lot, which is like, What's something that you believed 18 months ago that you believe to be true that you don't believe? Yeah,

22:02
okay, it's a great question. First thing that springs to mind is

22:08
that I'm a coach. So it's not something that I've ever considered some like a badge that I would put upon myself. And even still, I still get a little bit worried about this idea that I'm a coach. But I've changed my mind about it. Because through going through the NBA, I was asked to join the coaching team, firstly, but what I've started to realize on reflection is

22:30
the coaches, the word whatever, but the way that I approach things in a way that I think about things in the way that I interact with individuals, regardless of whether it's in the role of a coach, or in the role of a client liaison, when I was at corporate or during the NBA, or just hanging out with my friends. It's the characteristics that make up the role of what coaches, which is asking really good questions, being super curious and holding space for other people to talk if that's what it means to be a coach, then, yeah, I guess I'm a coach. And that's that as if model right. And I, I think that it's probably I I just know that when I was a digital content producer at the radio station, yeah, I realized that I did this weird thing. I went from having my own business. So during the freelancing type of thing, and I was a digital content producer. And I sort of knew that I was like, the there was above me, there was the digital manager, and then the digital director. And then what I found happened is, over the course of 11 months, I became what the digital content producer was, I was like, not only in what I wear, but the way that I acted in the comment. And I knew that when I'm in a meeting that the digital content producer can talk about this, they don't like you shouldn't be talking about stuff that's well beyond because at the beginning, I came in, I'm like, All right, guys, I was working on faith angels show and I was spending more time from a content side of things been like, this would be great gear, let's do it like this. Here's an idea and less on the digital stuff. And I think that the think that we do inevitably become our labels. So it's important that if you are going to use them, yeah. That you embody them. Yeah, you pick the ones that are true to you made. I did a life coach course when I was 2021.

24:19
Nothing. What did you like, you finish? Tommy finished school? The age of 1717 or 16? Yeah, I left school year 1117 the time or not even 17. Yeah, I wouldn't have turned 17 yet. And so I then went into landscaping. It was my exit plan. Dad had a business or got into that beautiful I was allowed to leave and then so that I could be a personal trainer. Yeah, I saw that I was old enough to do a course to become a personal trainer. So I did that it was awake. Similar. The Alton bi short, very intensive fuck all work. Really? Yeah. But I may I did it. And then I, I had this mind when I was like, I dealing with people with a bodies and I was like, I want to go a bit deeper. And I was always into that stuff. But I did the course. And in fairness, I I learned a lot of those, you know, asking good questions and being open and removing you sort of either a gender or ego within, you know, the confines of a conversation. So it's more like you were totally open to what the person has inside of them. Yeah. And I was too young, really quiet. And to be honest, I went in, it was probably a safety thing that I was I not actually going to become a life coach, because I'm too young. Yeah, and sure. I mean, there's kids now, 21 trying to do life coaching courses. The amount of life I have now, I've lived since then, is so much I'm going to keep. So I've got more often now, if I was able to do that. Yeah, but I did feel a bit of an imposter day, but I, I had made some good friendships.

25:51
So it was a good experience. It's a community what, what sort of people were in your class for old MBA? Yeah, so it's,

25:59
it was a fascinating mix, to be honest. So I had

26:04
in my particular class, I had like a see to Chief Technology Officer in a big Casino in Vegas Pro through to a management consultant from Sydney. And then, you know, everyone in between, we had people in Seattle, people in San Fran, people in New York, performing artists, freelancers, entrepreneurs, all those labels that we just talked about. We've had since then, as part of the coaching team. I've seen people that are 85 people that are 22

26:33
people from Europe, people from, you know, Africa, people from South America, pay for America. So it's, it's really, it's really diverse. It sounds exciting, because the thing is, I feel like I pushed back on traditional courses. And the thing that I find interesting about MBA, it's probably the same sort of thing. I feel like with religion, right? where it's like, the thing that like, I hear my, you know, mates and in the different different religions and all that sort of thing. And, like, man, I actually like the community they have, it's, like, almost empty, like, man, if I could just like be there for the community and not have to do and I've had these conversations with major. I'm like, bro, it's just you and I do believe in the spirit or is it mainly like, you know, because, yeah, there's so many elements like, I think about even and using grew up with Jewish friends know the food dude.

27:27
Oh, my God. Half that is just the best food. So much of it. You would love

27:33
that. Well, that's even like, Yeah,

27:34
but my, my community food and the religion

27:38
Yeah. And so that's, that's interesting thing. But all MBA, I guess, is almost religion without the without some of the, the access

27:47
or always everyone's looking for a community. Yeah, to surround themselves with. And I said, you know, it's kind of what we're doing with the podcast. We didn't, I didn't know you. Yeah, personally, is a one on one face to face yesterday. Yeah. Now I do. We're kind of building this app. Turns out You bloody live right near the corner. Yeah, yeah.

28:03
Cool. It's sort of what Seth talks about. In his book, tribes, right? Which is like, we're looking for people that are like minded people like us to do things like this is sort of the, the phrase he uses a lot. Absolutely. And so before we before we move, move on here, chatting. We've got at least do the 711 think this feels now that we've been talking date, this is the most gimmicky

28:26
message Peter and said, Mike, what's your drink of choice? And he said, long black. And so I had the

28:32
non Australians wouldn't even know what that is. Well, they said America in America.

28:37
I fear in America. It's a What did you need healthy without milk? I don't know what I asked for. Actually no, ask for America and in Europe.

28:46
Anyway. Tommy has been

28:49
drinking 711 coffees which comes out of a machine being in Melbourne. There is a massive sort of hipster coffee snobbery that goes on are you part of the culture will feel like we're in the thick of it in Abbotsford way. Do you get your coffee from in Abbotsford

29:06
you got a chain How do you go to be too proud? Mary if you talk to a doctor more Dr. Morse a couple of times that's where the corner from my house what's your regular woody woody grey bags full? I can down the road for good for kids. Yes. Yeah. Excellent. Rod. Small Talk.

29:23
So what I want to do is because as our wouldn't be funny if we go to sF 11 coffee, and then we'll I would if we got him several living coffee. Yeah.

29:32
First pepper pepper

29:35
jam stays from a good cafe. Some someone that makes legit coffee, we get another long black. And we just say if you can tell the difference.

29:42
So that's my thing. I've been like, no, no. And now is the bloody differ. This is healthy for dollar coffee. And the thing is that what I want to preface this with is because this does feel very radio show. So I want to say that this is more of an experiment than it like it's not a prank. Yeah,

30:01
there's paid as a cross it you know

30:02
exactly what's happening.

30:05
We've got two cups here. Two cups, and so we're going to get you to maybe smell both of them first. So smell the one that's in Tommy's hand recognition. First. He has to see if it first and then tell us all of the other all of the above. Okay, we're creating the rules as we go.

30:20
So just ship that if this one

30:22
that I have Melvin. Yeah,

30:24
yes. We don't know what it is. It's a white camp.

30:29
Okay.

30:32
Okay. Do you want to renew

30:35
my sparkling water? This is what hipster cafes do. They give you fizzy water,

30:41
natural something.

30:43
Okay. So this is this.

30:50
Okay. So pay to his drunk both of the long black. Which one was better number, the first one or the second one? I want to say the first one tasted better. Yeah,

31:01
I think that's because the second one is a 711 coffee. Is that correct?

31:07
You got it wrong.

31:13
The difference in cost is probably exorbitant. Like Yeah,

31:17
the one the second one was, was the real coffee and I want to uphold this is horrible. I mean, this is a big deal, because I can save $3 a day now. It's not going to civil

31:25
is huge. You can buy a house next year.

31:30
That's how it works. This is

31:31
I think it proves my point. Wow.

31:35
Like in terms of that one that you just gave him now he gets both Yeah, but this is the last one which isn't the

31:42
one that I said was the 711 So yeah,

31:44
I don't know which. So the nice one is the 711 if I've learned anything, it's if you want a nice coffee. 711

31:50
Yes. So I've taught about which one to drink

31:53
drink both

31:56
fuzzy but isn't that funny? So that was my hope that if you're alone black drink yeah

32:01
I mean we going that Peters the decider for the world but no you're fine with that I'm

32:08
anyway now you a coffee. That was he drinking?

32:10
Jason Fox, who we had on the other day is just listening right now. Sorry. And he really sharp just like anger. Just throwing of them.

32:19
But I'm sorry.

32:21
Melvin down. Yes. The coffee saying is now did you have helped the video that

32:27
we actually need to get Jason to do it? Because I feel like he'll he'll get he'll get into it in a big way. This is the thing about this challenge. Is everyone watching or listening? He's like,

32:35
Oh, hey, can't tell the difference. The difference? Yeah, it's

32:38
probably true. I mean, that you were you confident before going into it.

32:42
I like my coffee. And I have a black coffee every day, two coffees a day. And I usually treat myself to a cafe like three bags full. And

32:53
this is my theory. So this is the interesting bit which is like the 711 Coffee is made out of them with a machine versus a barista made coffee which is made with a person I guess there is a cert there's a level of artistry, maybe, but there's also a bunch of marketing that goes out goes on. Yes, you were doing between if it was January and April, you're working on that or being part of the marketing summit. Is that what is coaching seminars seminar, that's it, the marketing seminar, what what's the deal? What do you what, what's that all about. So that's another one of sets courses, which is not not overly similar to the MBA in that it's,

33:36
it's more self paced, and it's more like, he's 60 lessons. He's 60 videos, he's 60 exercises, go through them at your own pace, there is a community of people to deal with you, and you can get feedback and that sort of thing. But that's more I guess you would say traditional online learning in then he says ID he's his assertion about a particular thing to do with marketing. Now try it out for yourself kind of thing. What was the biggest learning from that

34:00
biggest learning from that was, you know, it was probably building on some of the learnings from your MBA for me, which is about this idea of empathy. And like it's a, it's a bit of a buzz term at the moment, I think empathy, but being able to truly understand what it means to sit in the shoes of someone else, so that you can talk to that person based on where they're coming from. And there's a quote, I think it's from the NBA actually, which is that people don't fall in love.

34:30
Sorry, people don't change because you tell them to like, because you go, here's my pros and cons list. Look at all the pros. You should change your mind. It's that people change their mind because they fall in love with a different version of the future. Yeah,

34:38
so for the marketing seminar for the marketing and the stories that we tell it's about how do you talk to that version of the future that they want to fall in love with and paint that picture for them? Do you think there's, I don't know if it's social media that's doing this, but everyone is following the school or there's a lot of people who are following the school of thought or just copying sidewalks the Gary chunks of the world are doing and they've got the, the, the photo of them with a big bit of text, and they're, they're all about that hustle. Yeah. What I because I watched a video with Seth and Gary great video, great video, because I don't necessarily I think that the school of hustle there's an alternate way. Yeah. And I think that that's one of the things that may be Seth

35:25
Do you feel that he instills that sort of thing and his programs? I think so for sure. I think

35:31
I'd say I pushed back a lot on that word hustle. And I'm never really sure why. I think maybe the story I tell about that word is that it's like Work, Work. Work. grind, grind. Grind has been awesome. So what I'm just gonna like die, die, die.

35:44
And I think in fact,

35:45
I talked about this when you guys had him on, which was like, being busy is so overrated. Yeah. Right. It's like, what if you just focus on the things that are important to you and do them really well? Yeah,

35:53
I also don't just believe in wearing how long you spent at work as a badge of honor. Which I just which is that whole thing of like, what are you doing between 9pm and one I

36:06
fucking hitting? Just like Gary. I'm in. Well,

36:09
I get in bed at night. I might listen to a podcast, but I'll be sleep by 930. Gary was walking around the office at 11pm the other night saying that he was, you know, putting in the work. no one else's here. You're on your phone broke

36:25
not. But I mean, it's, I think it's different. When there's a dude who's the CEO and founder of a huge company in the workload. Do you think there's a thought in people's minds that they should I need to be like that, oh, they need to do this. And it's so out of alignment with who they are? Yeah, maybe. I think it's a I think

36:43
that's a dangerous, it's a dangerous, like mold to try and replicate. And I think you sort of touched on it, which was that that's Gary Vee, who's the CEO of a multimillion dollar company. But what if your goal is not to create a multimillion dollar company? What if you don't want to be entrepreneur? You know, we talked about freelancing before what if, for me, it's just about having, you know, five to 10 clients that enable me to live a life on a live and support the work that our support so that I can do the things I want to do like, that doesn't mean I have to work 14 hours a day like Gary Vee. So I think it's about being clear on what's it for, for Gary. So for him, that's the way he keeps his company running. And that's the way that he probably gets off. He probably loves it. Yeah, but for people out there that are looking at that, it's like, that's for him. Is it for you? Is that what you need to do to be able to get the things you need to to make you happy? And I

37:33
think that there's like, my favorite word at the moment is paradox. I was catching up with Jason Fox and he was talking about paradox and what something and

37:42
with everything that with everything that there is a rule for the opposite is true. Right. So with this hustle There is also someone who and Derek servers, or Jason freed or this Tim Ferriss, yeah, Tim Ferriss author, is the complete opposite school of thought, which is actually let's be a little bit more thoughtful here. Let's spend less time I think that it's a as for our specifically for Tim ways. The thing is with with Tim, he's even, you know, I think he's come to hate that for our term, right? Because it's the other thing too, we will have a really literally, you really look, I think he's talking about actually physically putting, what's the script wave, right. And I think that thing is, and the reason that Gary resonates with so many people is it is prescriptive, it's like, the way that you're going to build up your real estate business is you need captions on your video.

38:36
As long as you have captions on the video, and yellow you can have the progress bar goes along the video until it ends because we're not going to because otherwise, no one's gonna know

38:45
visually when attending this. I'm not watching. There's a plumber in Adelaide who has a podcast, maybe supplement or using landscape up You don't have to go to space. It literally looks like Gary Vee stuff. And I really got this putting a lot of effort. How did these to caption every single video. Yeah, and and get the city looking like that consistently. I don't think he I wonder if that's paying off for his business. This is a plumbing landscaping business like, is that rack raping him the reward of money in his field? Or is he maybe he wants to be an entrepreneur? Yeah, I

39:22
think the other thing too is, wherever you put your energy, it will probably end up working out for you. Right? Like, that's the other fact of it is like, we look back retrospectively insight bad Tojo needs to the hustle. Yeah, but maybe that's not the thing that got you there like, and that's a big question. I think that and that's whenever we hypothesize on what Wait, like, we look back. And like man told you, we needed to do like 100 episode, we need to do any episode before we create the story. And the reality is that if we went hard on episode one, and we kept going, it would have probably had the same effect. We might even be in a bigger place. Yeah. How do you

39:59
how do you record console all of this stuff? What do you what do you prioritize as especially around coaching is there's lots of different coaches, there's a lot of people selling a drain. Yeah. How do you avoid either getting into that? Or how do you reconcile those ideas? Yeah,

40:17
it's a fair question. I think. So one of the questions that I like to ask a lot of myself and of my clients and have everything essentially that I do is What's it for? And it's a it sounds like a really simple question, but basically, it allows allows you to put intention into everything that you do. So whether it's what is email for because we all get a bunch of pointless a mouse including Seth, for Josh,

40:41
what's the same for Peter? I'll reply Yeah, but for me in terms of so my coaching business, I asked myself, What's it for? And so for me, I'm also a big proponent of Simon cynics. Yeah. And he's Golden Circle. And the idea that with why I would want so for me, the coaching is one of my watch, for example. But why I do what I do is that I enjoy helping others see things that they can't see. Yeah, so they can change their corner of the world, right? That's my wife statement. And so I'm not necessarily attached to this idea that I have to be coached forever. I'm until I'm obsessed with are attached to this idea that I need to leave my wife, which is helping other people see things I can't say, Yeah, I can change a corner of the world. Now that might look like a blog, which I have a man look like coaching, which I do, it might look like the NBA, which I also do. So there are cool things that I like doing there in in alignment with that. And so when I think about things like hustle and grind, and you should be doing all these other things, I'm like, What's that for? Is that in service to my wife, or no, working 14 hours. It's actually the opposite of what I want to be able to do. I want to be like, Hi, nice the other day, and she's like, slowing down a bit and taking time to smell the roses and leave my life a little bit. And so that's what it's for. That's what that's what I see. My role is for was like

41:51
yoga. Yoga is good and would be good for everyone. But if it's not if it's not going to help you run the marathon yet. And maybe it's not the thing to focus on in this moment. Yeah, yeah, the fourth Monday I just wanted to get it

42:06
when it comes to analogies. That was horrendous

42:09
halfway through

42:11
Everyone needs Yeah, yeah,

42:12
I'll see you back. Oh, oh,

42:16
no, no.

42:21
Yea.

42:24
Coffee

42:26
which was exactly

42:28
one right allows us the 711 111

42:31
Coffee

42:31
now it's a talking about personal brand time stuff. Yeah, we spoke we spoke about my transformation. Yeah, of light. And I am someone who embraces it. Because I realized that one day I rock up and I've got different glasses on and I've no longer West and that backs and I get that and when before we have guests on. I do a bit of social media. Looking around

42:56
soaking

42:58
wet. You've got a very lockdown Facebook page. Congrats. You got the privacy locked in. There's no purpose. I didn't even know that. You know, it's,

43:05
it's really good for you just posted at all

43:08
you 3036 weeks ago. Whenever I was scanning, you did a profile you had a profile pic. And it's and I could 100% relate to what was going on. Which was like these a slight pivot in what Peter's offering to the world, which is black and white. Little bit more sophisticated. You know, this is gonna be the end and you just say paid as Matt it's been like, and it's maybe some Australian thing was like, What's going on here? What's up? Yeah, this isn't this isn't LinkedIn,

43:39
what's going on? She's looking sharp Ferriss. Hundred percent. Sure. And

43:45
the only thing that annoys me about that photo. Yeah, was I didn't have my glasses on the

43:49
tech scene. And so I'm like, if I would bring to it. I would have these glasses on. I just got them. These are like a week out of the time. fiver would it can't get that down.

43:56
Literally. We white the the rebranding of the data talk show was to coincide with my new glasses tell you probably didn't even know that. We waited for Tommy to have a kid so he could get a free family photo

44:11
a bit. What do you think that there's a push back in the world for personal change? Do you think that we dislike the idea that someone is externally changing who they are? That's a really interesting question. I think. I think in Australia particular we have this notion I think it's a New Zealand too tall poppy syndrome, right? Which is like that you cut down the Pope, the guy who's trying to stand out. Yeah,

44:34
and so I think when people see things that are different. And to go back to what we talked about earlier, around, the way we're conditioned is to be like, well, that's something I notice. That's something that's out of the ordinary. I can comment on that. Yeah,

44:45
no, I don't know, necessarily, that we deliberately have like malice behind it. I don't want to cut him down. Yes. Who does he think he is? But it's more like, well, that's different. It's observational, right? It's almost a bit it's the it's projecting, I think in like the highest What up is one of my favorite thing, anyone that it says anything a little bit negative, I just say that project.

45:06
It's a way of completely taking out any responses

45:09
because I think like, the thing about that photo is like, it's hilarious that you picked up on it's a beautiful photo I've won, you should check. It's also you've used it as the header,

45:17
which is really, really try to own it, you have

45:20
to

45:21
the thing about it is like you talked about like the the

45:25
the fee that I had even just putting that photo up because I knew the reaction that I got would be exactly what I would get it because it's like, this is pretty different. Like, I haven't posted on Facebook for a year. Yeah. And the other thing was, it was in service to one of my friends in New York who took the photo who's a really good photographer and I was like, I'll put it up for you man. But I knew like that there would be this reaction

45:43
Yeah, which is interesting. And now you have nightmares Josh has brought this out

45:47
but I guess people are looking in Yeah, I know Josh is one of the most interesting people I know in terms of Thanks for looking in and we're in almost working and I think a lot of the time you pretty spot on dude No,

46:01
I just think it's there's these universal things that happen I think like I'm an over thinker

46:06
sometimes says to me, I've seen you've been changed. I

46:09
just leaving. So

46:12
pray works at Hey, Tiger, which is a chocolate does

46:18
all the all the all the money all the profit goes to the Hunger Project in Africa. So it's a it's a good cause. He's probably for free chocolate. Yeah.

46:25
So you once you said to me, Josh, oh, I've noticed you said, exchanging. We don't you instant what's, what's happening? And I actually was like, What the fuck are you talking about?

46:35
But maybe it was maybe I'm not in touch. And maybe I am changing something or haven't been doing it was like, Yeah,

46:42
do you remember saying that? I could? Yeah, I told you that. Well, I think that this is an interesting time that we're at, right,

46:51
20 years ago, my mom could be a dental nurse, and she has her friends. And she, you know, she just has to watch about the people that are at the shops and what she wears, and all that sort of thing. And all of a sudden, every single person doesn't matter what industry you're in, you have a platform, you have a channel, you have a brand. And all of a sudden my mom who's a dental nurse needs to know like, What is her bio going to say? What is the the 140 character version of me and like I say it where it's like, when my dad would travel for work mom guys are make sure that you are checking in at the lounge on Facebook status.

47:35
And and it's an interesting, it's an interesting idea, which is what Tommy and I've talked about, which is this old for content, which is how much of what you doing? Do you think about the people like it's I get having said it being being on the live stream with Seth Godin. Yeah, I reckon if I was sitting there, my smile would be at all the fuckers Who said I couldn't do

48:02
Hi, Josh Johnson was gone. I'm on the phone. I mean, fuck in New York. You religious would I know? I seriously. there's a there's a, there's a small part of me, which is just like, and I think that, uh. What are you? There is a part of the fuel that I have. Which is, I don't really have. I have enemies and I have anything but I do I take any little form of criticism. Yeah. And I just like put it into the machine. That's like, the best bit of energy that I'm going to have is any like anyone that goes on you doing a podcast? Like, geez, there's not like, that wasn't a few. That gives me fuel to be able to do it. Like, dude, can you relate to this? Is it is it? What's your, what's your internal monologue saying? So my internal monologue is not necessarily to use it as fuel

48:53
lines, almost the opposite, which is, so we talked about, what's it for earlier? My second favorite question you asked is, who's it for? And in relation to that, who's not for and so even when more like when I feel like I'm getting criticism or negative feedback, or someone's calling me out on something like, Hey, you started a blog? Who do you think you are it doesn't it?

49:14
I tell myself, Well, it's not for them. Yeah, right. That everything that I do is not for everybody. Yeah, it's for a specific group of people who are interested in the things that I have to say, Oh, the things that I can help them with. And if someone is outside of that sphere outside of that box, and they want to criticize me, that's fine. It's not for them. Yeah, that's what I tell myself. It's hard practice. Because you do something, you read something you like, Oh, come on me. Like, it's been on taking on

49:36
criticism. Lockheed, even like a field. things come up with, made of mine who messaged me before said you should change the title of your video to this, we should, you should put this in it. And automatically, you know, any other little feeling? Yeah. Yeah.

49:56
justifying. Yeah,

49:57
and that's been, I think, the, the journey that even Tommy I've seen you go on, which is the, the role isn't to counter every piece of feedback. And so I try and it's that empathy game. If we can have empathy for others, we can understand what is the what is the journey that they've been on to realize that and so your friend is someone who's got a content mind, they're thinking about it, they've done it at scale, and they have taken a position of mentorship. Yeah. And so for them, they see this, this low hanging fruit of being able to provide advice and give value. And I think that if it's, I say, those opportunities like those moments as a real blessing, because it to me, it's like that were close enough that they're bringing the into that in a monologue, their own anxieties, and then I can choose how I filter it. Is this is this, is this default thinking, or is this is there actually something to learn, just like if you go doing a traditional MBA, there is going to be a wealth of value that you haven't yet, but it's probably not the value that you would have gotten 30 years ago. It's completely different. Yeah,

51:12
I even feel like that hasn't changed, like, the feelings still arise. But I think I've just get better at dealing with that feeling of criticism. Yeah. And so like, that came online, I jumped on straightaway, I changed it. Religion backside. Good pickup. Yeah. And I feel better about as I actually made sense. And so when I actually acted on the thing, because I, you know, when you've, you know, when you probably should have done something, or someone who is somewhere else gives you advice. And you're like, Yeah, because I was kind of thinking that, well, you

51:43
don't have the context, right? It's like, with

51:46
people saying, for the first hundred episodes that we did, it's like are you should be doing this, or you should be doing that. And the thing is that it's not even that's not for them. But they they looking at a different part of the journey playing a different game. Yeah,

52:02
and I don't have to deal with Josh.

52:07
Josh. Josh has to do with me

52:10
to deal with myself. Every day.

52:15
You talk about I was reading your blog you're talking about in the shower, being in the shower? Yep. Good. Which one?

52:23
It's a topic now you're talking about the

52:27
that it's the five minutes in our day where we can just chill out. Yeah,

52:32
we thought

52:33
to get a kid and he missed two days

52:35
really seriously, having a go at me for not washing my top for four weeks. And I'll continue

52:43
no criticism.

52:45
But I think that the the interesting thing on the the the shower is it I got really reflective on it. Because I'm like, I've actually realized that in this hyper optimized world.

52:58
I have a podcast, I have an audio book, I have literally covered any, I will listen to an audiobook and then just put the sleep timer on. And so then when I fall asleep, like oh, then end up going back a little bit. But there's Yeah, there's no time where I'm not with noise. Interesting. Do you find that you need to fight to maintain that level of silence? Totally. Yeah, I think I used to, I used to have like a podcast or an audio book on every time I showered. For example, let's

53:28
take the share example. And I've forced myself to stop doing that. Yeah. And what I find is, and I think a lot of people have this, which is like, your best ideas come to you. When you're standing in the shower. I was like, why is that? What what what is it about standing in the shower that all of a sudden sparks this door some neuron connects? And you remember that idea that you had three weeks ago and what I tried to what I boiled it down to in my assertion is it's like time away from everything is no screen, no noise, just you and your subconscious mind processing the thing that you probably don't even realize the processing that sort of all of a sudden Xbox, I thought it's not based on any science or anything.

54:06
Yoga guys,

54:10
unless you run Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

54:14
No, it's, it's the exact same reason why I thought the worst thing to ever happen to me. This gives you a sense of my, my life journey. The worst thing to ever happen was getting Wi Fi on a plane. Yeah, because I agree with Yeah, because I was just like, I went from having this sacred time where I was just with my own thoughts to band like, you know, I could do email

54:38
that people do on applying it's go through photos and delete all photos from your

54:43
book. It's really strange. do that a lot. I do that too. So I just had a trip from you know, I flew from Dallas to Sydney just 17 hours and there's very quickly before we even talk about that. Do you know the difference between Perth to the US vs Melbourne to the US because Tommy was

55:00
so Tommy was saying Tommy after criticism. So

55:06
he's gone alpha. He stood up off his chair.

55:10
What I know what I want to know. Because Tell me was like Brian. I think, buddy Perth further away than Melbourne. I couldn't actually work out the math to like, Is there a significant difference between flying from Perth to New York? Yeah, like East Coast? Yep. So going from Perth to New York when you're not flying makeover Auckland. If you flying from Perth, you fly the other one. Yeah. But so you'd go through like

55:33
you'd go like Emirates or would you go like what would so now you can do I think this will in fact they already had one does flight actually it goes Perth the London directness so call that so I think it's 17 hours. And then London to New York. I think he's like, eight is just huge. So that's like you talking like five hours versus flying from Melbourne to Los Angeles. That's like 14 and then from there, then you're fine. is a

56:00
little bit shorter. Glad we got that covered. Because it was serious thing on my mind. I might. Maybe there is. Maybe there is something and it was because I think what confused Tommy is. He thought that you could only go one way around the world.

56:15
I think that was a problem. Yeah.

56:17
What we kind of remember what you're saying. Now. I just had to get it off my get that off my chest one. Tell me

56:25
what was missing.

56:28
meeting your idol

56:31
easier. I'll send you someone I look up.

56:35
Appreciate it. Look up to Yeah, yeah.

56:36
What's, what's the

56:39
Yeah. What's the internal monologue on on that sort of sort of thing. So there's a bit of imposter syndrome first and foremost, especially because I knew I'd met him once before, but this time, it was like, I'm going to be sitting down with him one on one on Facebook Live. So there was of course there was that like, Who do I think I am? Who am I? What am I gonna have to say? He's gonna find me out. I'm an idiot, I'm an imposter. So all of those stories went through Hey, naturally. And what was what was really cool when I met him was that he's just a guy. Yeah, and he's the most humble down to earth guy. He sets up in like a co working space not dissimilar to this and we sat down and we had a chat and then we both did some work and there's other people working and it's like just five people in a room and some work yeah only he's broadcasting to you know, 300,000 people around the world and then we go into a little room which is like set up with cameras in the bookshelf and everything and and he was just the most humble nice down to earth dude and he speaks how he writes he writes how he speaks whatever order you want to put it in, but short sentences, short sentences, a short assertions is

57:39
ridiculously articulate and profound, and you like Hendrix, does he have that like double bass sound that he has also, but I'll

57:48
go Bray was getting upset, because I'd listened to that when I go to sleep, and all that sort of thing. And if he if he goes through heaps of thoughts in mind,

58:00
how are other people to him? You know, because you said, He's just a dude. Yeah, and I, and I think, you know, Josh and I are having businesses where we're dealing with other businesses, quite, you know, your name, yeah, companies and stuff. And you realize that the success like they just having the same conversations as they just at a different level, yeah.

58:17
What are people surrounding, you know, in a co working space? What are they looking at, dude, like him? Or they can you notice that, because the context that Tommy is pulling from is, it's like, having been in radio, it's like, you'll have welfare, or you have Justin Bieber or you have, you know, these big guests in Yeah, and you sort of become you become aware of everyone is just a person. Yeah, Seth is one of those people who I like, I would be more excited to meet Seth and I would be on say something like that, right? And so yeah, it is, I find it an interesting thing, because I almost like that's where I can, I can't relate to the whole Kim Kardashian thing, all the stuff. But being having read someone's work for so long, and to have someone who is informed so many of your beliefs, yes. And it's like meeting the Pope, like the rock stars, yeah,

59:13
was a revival of people around the office, like,

59:15
so it was a so when I said co working space, they were the, it's, it was like a

59:19
Mac is

59:23
like, ultimately I headquarters, so it is the two other people in the room of the time work for him as part of the NBA. So

59:29
it's an open plan on outrageousness. It's

59:31
basically a converted apartment apartment block, he's converted into an office spaces kitchen, he cooks lunch, it's crazy. Graham. So the two people work for him. They're both I would say, I think they're both probably my age young, but the way he interacts with them is like, they just anybody, and yet he is anybody. So like, here, we working on something. And then you walk over and say, well, Josh, what do you think about this, and just, like, have a conversation, and then we go back to his laptop, and away goes, and so I don't think for them, they necessarily have this like startup, probably used to it by now. I guess they work with them every day. But certainly, I think like you said, Josh is some people do is like that Seth Godin, I could never have a conversation with him, or whatever. And I just

1:00:08
find it fascinating, the sense of also, like, from a age point of view to like, a wisdom sort of thing is, it's like, he has gone through a man like, you know, you, I bought an old Seth Godin book that was like a marketing like I bought a book on Celebrity famous people's email addresses that he created. And I just like, yeah, it's for shits and giggles. I'm like, what's like the oldest Seth Godin book that I could buy it bought one on different emojis like different like a board smileys or whatever. Which is funny. Because he now I remember reading a blog post about him talking about not liking people doing like smiley emojis. emojis in a male Yeah, because he just told him or send him a small Yeah, I haven't said and the other thing too, I just I change you know, it's the equivalent of may dressing like Steve Jobs. My I do my own pet peeve which is I always say like if I'm sending you an email be like hey Peter, but I've started bit like the last name I look back on I was like Seth comma which is like such a like there's some sort of a lot of people do that now it's the same people who write best at the end of the day man yeah I do it

1:01:24
to us sometimes just

1:01:25
for baby and then he spelled My name wrong

1:01:30
now it's it's it's interesting the yeah the that idea of he's got so much wisdom he's come from such a long way but the other thing too is that it's like Alton bi is starting to treat he's leaving that is going to be his legacy yeah in so many ways you will you did really well in that I mean just from the live stream us on the live stream that you were really a ticket and came across really well yeah it's hard to it's hard to see that yourself obviously you would know what it's like when you see yourself on video for the first time I'm already have a section live you like

1:02:01
to say that Yeah, you doing why you get so much done that 107 episodes there's like a sort of a few hours of self loathing. Look forward to that after this episode, your face pump

1:02:12
as you will get. Yeah. Now that now I was I was I was always like, one of those moments where you'd like blackout. Yeah. And I walked out. It was like, I have no idea what I just said. I hope it was articulate. I hope it made sense. But that was kind of fun.

1:02:26
You know, the internet is connected Josh and myself to a lot of people. And a lot of cool things have come from me putting out videos tell the story on this podcast about how I've become friends with a dude who's got he's got a show on Netflix. Yeah. Long. Maya Awesome. Awesome. six seasons, watch it. But I will this crazy story. It's one of my favorite stories to tell. Yeah, you have to go back anyway, turns out this dude. So one of my videos told me I do love that. Check out my show. The dude lives next door to me a really

1:02:58
nice. So this is an Australian or older dude. He's named Robert Taylor. He spends a lot of his time in Hollywood and all that sort of thing. And he said he was in California. It's actually New Mexico working on his show. And he sent Tommy a message about his own bike video. That Tommy Tommy

1:03:21
and so he said, single handed. Yeah, he's like, yeah,

1:03:25
I'm like, in the US watching this video, that sort of thing. Yeah. And Tommy told me about this. And a week later, him and I are walking on the weekend with Amy, Tommy's, wife and Brie and Bodie, and we and Amy and Tommy. Like, I think that's Robert. Yeah, we

1:03:42
will

1:03:44
hang on a second. Did you say Yeah.

1:03:46
And then I went back to me how I got

1:03:51
into their friends. Yeah. Then we met for beer. Yeah, but my. So my point is sort of like, these things have connected me. Is there anything that happened from I guess being? Yes, yes.

1:04:00
thing. Yeah. Yeah. So I

1:04:03
not necessarily from the Facebook Live, but like, this idea of internet friends, is something that I've come to love, because all of the people that I work with you via remote, so you're

1:04:12
on Slack, or what do you use slack and zoom free accommodation in Vegas, if you go to the casino here on I should be a server room. But

1:04:22
one of the

1:04:24
one of the ones that springs to mind is, as a coach, I was looking after the pacific time zone for for the NBA in November. And I've, I met this lady by the name of Jan Waldman, who has since become like a friend, a client, a mentor, like just a really significant part of my working life. And just my life in general, which we reflected on when I was in New York. And it was she came to be in that time zone by bad math. So she was in New York, and she thought I for do pacific time, I'll get an extra three hours. But in actual fact, she lost three L's. And so because of that, we came to meet each other, and now we're working with each other. And then we're gonna do a podcast together. And it's like this crazy serendipitous moment that you just never would have predicted. Yeah,

1:05:03
and I think when you don't put white on what you're getting out of it, like Rob said to me, I don't quite know what to do with you. You know, like he said, He's, but he's looking at me going, I love what you do. But either, so it's like, I'm not relying on him. Yes. Lovely. Dude, we get along. Yeah, live next to each other. Yeah,

1:05:19
I think that people expect too much. It's this weird thing. It's the paradox again, right? Where it's, it's the like, you need to be, you need to be willing to invest in relationships with zero expectation totally. And I think that everyone is trying to seal the deal or, you know, network in that sort of traditional sense where it's like, for me, it's about connecting and connecting with great people. And I think that that's, um, you know, the, the internet has done that so many times where it's like, I've gotten so many clients. And I've had some, like, back in when Twitter was just a thing that you'd get text messages. Like, you would send text messages, and it would go to all these other texts. Like, there's so many people that I ended up catching up with or even Russkies who listens to the show, yeah. You know, he was shocking, man. Yeah. I emailed you in, like, 2011, you know, when you're doing Melbourne game. It's the it's a super powerful thing you actually need doing a podcast at some point with it. You know it? Yeah. Yeah.

1:06:22
Make it happen. What's the,

1:06:25
what's the doing the whole podcasting. Like, what's the putting the coach it? Can you coach yourself? That's a

1:06:33
good question, I think, to a degree, but also not because we have too many preconceived ideas and stories and notions in our head. So one thing we do within the I feel like the old timey I keeps coming up, but yeah, we coach each other with the other coaches, there's about 40 coaches, and part of it is carving out time to just work on each other and helping each other in the projects were working on and you as I said, I always do a bit of Social Media Research

1:06:59
every single time I said, say this, he winters a little bit like what

1:07:04
my re branded

1:07:07
for you tweeted,

1:07:09
you went waiting, then you started in 2010,

1:07:16
he loved sport. Yes, you're really into sport. You know, you I'm

1:07:25
right.

1:07:28
All of the people that you follow

1:07:29
your favorite football,

1:07:33
but into sport? And so how much what's the difference between a sport coach and the coaching that you do? fair question. I think the first thing that springs to mind is, I think with a sports coach, there's usually an element of them having a structure an idea, a thing that they're trying to communicate, they're almost helping you work within a framework. Yeah, I think with a with a coach. And certainly I see my role is

1:08:00
not having any preconceived notions of where this needs to go of having an open conversation, being curious enough to ask a question and not being attached to the outcome. And we sort of talked about this earlier. So I'm only interested in their out yet know what you're thinking about the outcome you want. Exactly. But but not even saying this is the outcome that I want to get this person to just reading, like, let's see where this goes. So I think it's almost comes down to like a sports coach to me, is almost what you would call I guess I mentor in a professional context with which is like, based on my experience, I think you should do this to me a coaches like, let's talk about this. What are you hiding behind? Where's the fear come from? What would it look like if you did this or that without being attached to? This is the way you need to do it? What's the opening question? You sit down? Like if you were sitting down with us right now? Like you are? Yeah,

1:08:43
and we, you know, what would you without even if we were to set a meeting? Yeah. Would you ask questions before we even got there? Is there a level of preparation? Yeah,

1:08:53
so that there's really a one question I usually get them to fill out, say, on a on a form or contact form isn't what are you working on at the moment? But the first question, I would ask him in a face to face meeting or a zoom meeting is essentially like, tell me the Josh story. Yeah. And just like, I just let them go. And sometimes I speak for like, 25 minutes. Well, this is where it all started. And they're like, Oh, I'm a podcaster at the moment. What are

1:09:16
you identifying with that?

1:09:19
Nothing really, specifically that I'm looking for, other than I think the way that they take that question can dictate the sorts of things that they're interested in, focusing on. So if they immediately go to when I was at school, I'm, you know, study this and this, and so they weren't attached to their past. That's Yeah, that's

1:09:35
interesting. Fascinating

1:09:37
that you say that, because the thing that Tommy and I talk about regulates the format of the show and what we talked about. And the thing that within the podcasting context is, which I struggle with, and don't like asking is, you know, tell the audience who you are. Yes. And because I maybe I put in the same basket is, what do you do? Yeah, but maybe to finish up, you could tell us what is the shepherd story? That's a fair question. So I actually got 25

1:10:08
clients usually do now. So I don't like the question of what do you do? And so I would bring it back to why I do what I do, which I think I mentioned is I seek to help others change the corner of the world. And I do that by helping them see things that they can't see, which

1:10:21
says, that's the store. So is that the store? Is that would that be the pay to story? I think

1:10:24
so. Yeah, I think that's really interesting. Because I think that that's a it's a forward thinking story. Yeah. So it's not necessarily connecting to narratives in the past. Yeah, so yeah,

1:10:36
I like I mean, I went to Melbourne University. Yeah, scholarship, and all that. I don't just don't give a shit about anything. Yeah,

1:10:43
man. If I did, you would hear about it.

1:10:46
Just drop it in me to do

1:10:48
I think they all contribute to who paid or ease Yeah, it's, um, it's what you've done. I was

1:10:54
a stripper, we're that if you dig deep, you know, fine. I'm gonna do that today. The guy that

1:11:01
channel I lead

1:11:02
with it. So that now and if anyone finds that it's not like, I'm hiding anything, but you know, that's, that hasn't shaped who I am. But it is a part of my journey to get where I am now. Literally, I was on stage once, like, bringing out one I'm left right. Doing the fucking muscle man. Can I just explained that when Tommy said left? He had he's riding

1:11:24
in a mirror.

1:11:28
I remember going, what the fuck am I doing? And it was a pivotal moment for me to go, what is this? And then literally after, like, not long after that I transitioned out wanted to get into these symbols. And it led me to the next thing. Yeah, but it is a part of my story. That's interesting. I can avoid it. And so, you know, I think your answer is the thought out version if you were to blurt out like it would, yeah, it'd be all of those things. Yeah, they've got you to this. But I think the beautiful thing about this podcast, any podcast is that we've just talked for over an hour, and we've heard a lot of what you've been doing, where you're at, you know, the taste for life crisis, the fact that I can't tell the difference between

1:12:09
a good coffee cup We turned off then. So good. I'm sorry. I'm

1:12:13
sorry. The I've heard it referred to as a crucible moment. So it's a moment where, you know, for Tommy, it was raising his hand in front of the stage is one of them.

1:12:26
What was that that quarter life crisis? What, how did it actually play out? What did that look like? I think I would step so I would probably take it all the way back to I could trace this back a long way. But I'll trace it back in to a moment when someone recommended I read the four hour workweek. I must have been like, 24 at the time. And that led me down a massive a rabbit hole of like, that idea of thinking differently. And, like,

1:12:54
do you ever have a virtual assistant? I did not. I looked

1:12:57
at it. I tried. I nearly tried that. I tried it for a little bit. That's like, my, I have to explain everything

1:13:03
myself. Exactly. And I try to use an I tried all those things. But that led me to his podcast, which led me to the Seth Godin interview which led me to the NBA and process and here I am talking to you let so yeah,

1:13:13
man, it's like it is a journey and it's fun and I think thinking back on all these things I what life is all about? Yeah,

1:13:22
stripping

1:13:24
just the journey experiencing things like it's it's one of my favorite things and and back to why you should do the podcast you mentioned Yeah, it's seriously therapy. It's amazing to talk to a basement Yeah, people like you. Yeah, constantly it's it's mind opening it's good excuse to have a conversation

1:13:41
and it's also I think that probably the same reason that you have your blog it's it's it's about it's about repetition yeah it's about showing up yeah and it's an IT IS THAT synthesizing of thoughts it's our site like out this this podcast allowing us to get really clear on our thoughts and we realized that what we're giving people yeah, ease we are opening up so throughout this episode, there's probably moments where it's like, man, he's real jackass here. Well, there's this problem here. And that's fine. Because like, I have those voices anyway. And that and and this is part of the journey. So that's what like, that's what's really exciting with the guest is it's like, there's always the post episode blues where you're like, man, I should have said, this is

1:14:30
your friend of the show. Welcome back on. Yeah,

1:14:32
you can come back on to read that. But I think that part of it is, is it's like this is this is the the price that you pay for openness. Yeah. And it's something that not everyone is willing to do. So thanks for being on the show is paid out

1:14:47
as a human Periscope. Yeah. Is the is your company and all that sort of thing. So it's been three months do you say Oh, hell me. Three months. Full time. Yeah. And proud of that. It was sort of a thing I was doing on side. Yeah,

1:14:58
man. That's

1:14:59
get the Seth Godin strain on Seth's place. Yeah, yeah. Cool check yes. Awesome. Thanks

1:15:07
Ellie. Talk Show send us your emails high at the daily talk show.com will actually we got a few but it's hard when we've got guests on to go through them to the shell

1:15:18
I did read your email the two yeah that's

1:15:21
amazing yeah and when you so much for sharing yeah when had awesome thoughts as well she's living in Canada at the moment in kicking ass with stuff so get back to you. Yeah,

1:15:31
today the talk show everyone. Thanks for listening. Bye.