Ep 1000 - pt 8 Matt D'Avella & Craig Harper
Tommy Jackett: [00:00:00] Very low barrier to get into the wrong spot.
Josh Janssen: [00:00:07] We've committed to do the daily talk show for 10 years. I had guys
Matt D'Avella: [00:00:10] who did they in the calendar.
Tommy Jackett: [00:00:12] I just like
Josh Janssen: [00:00:13] to check the temperature in the room. I told you my squeegee story,
Dave ally was in, in the studio via web video link, uh, via satellite. Where is
Matt D'Avella: [00:00:29] he? Yeah, it looks, does it look pretty good? I mean, last time I did this with you guys, it looked awful.
Josh Janssen: [00:00:35] Great, man. I, um, what
Tommy Jackett: [00:00:38] camera are you using? You get your EOS for you?
Matt D'Avella: [00:00:41] Uh, the yeah, just upgraded. Not very minimalist. No, no,
Josh Janssen: [00:00:46] it looks great.
It looks beautiful. Um, so you have joined us, uh, how far in are we TJ?
Tommy Jackett: [00:00:52] How long have we met? We've got four hours to go, which means we're like 12 hours in nearly 12. Yeah. I cannot believe,
Matt D'Avella: [00:01:03] I cannot believe that you guys have been doing it for this long. I actually started to scrub through and take a look at what I missed and, uh, I got about five minutes of content.
Yeah, the vibe, but when I first tuned in, it seemed like you guys, um, yeah, you were hanging on by a thread, but since, uh, you know, I went back and I saw that there is actually quite a lot of energy early on in the podcast. And so, uh, I saw some, uh, music performance by Jack, which was beautiful. Like brought me to tears.
That was amazing.
Josh Janssen: [00:01:40] Do you like golf by the way? Are you, are you a fan of golf?
Matt D'Avella: [00:01:44] I'm not very good at off. And I, I, it's one of those things that I like to play, but I'm, I played with my father-in-law once and it was just purely embarrassing and he like really stuck to the rules. And so it was like, I had to like, look in the forest for my ball for like 35 minutes.
And I was like, this is not how I want to play. I just want to drop a ball, I think, keep going. But yeah.
Josh Janssen: [00:02:08] Yeah. And so you're mentioning Georgie boy, he's downstairs right now.
Tommy Jackett: [00:02:13] Yeah. Good boys. I'm putting for you today, Matt. So if I get one of these three balls in the cup, then you win a cup
Matt D'Avella: [00:02:21] and we'll
Josh Janssen: [00:02:22] post it up to you.
If you still got the, um, the, uh, the hoodie develop, has that been chapped.
Matt D'Avella: [00:02:41] Yeah, you
Josh Janssen: [00:02:41] did. You, did I feel like you even it's currently on a homeless
Tommy Jackett: [00:02:46] guy in LA?
Josh Janssen: [00:02:49] No, but I feel like it got it. It had got a really good run. It made it in a few videos. It was it's it's all fine. Yeah.
Matt D'Avella: [00:02:56] I think it was a little bit oversized. I think if it me better, I would've worn it more. Uh, I know that look works for a lot of people, but the baggy, you know, I want, I need like a, I need a small, okay,
Josh Janssen: [00:03:07] perfect.
We can, we can send you that
Matt D'Avella: [00:03:11] and then I'll donate it in six months
Josh Janssen: [00:03:15] to someone else. So, uh, uh, GBE ready. Here we go. Okay. First part.
Matt D'Avella: [00:03:28] Got it.
Tommy Jackett: [00:03:40] can we, can we get him a, uh, w what is it Wendy's cup as well? Yes. In a row, baby. Yeah. He wants a Wendy's cup too, and probably sent him
Josh Janssen: [00:03:49] some books as well. Okay, great. This is really good. And so the, the idea was that, uh, if, uh, GB, you get three in a row, then you get the Wendy's cup. Yeah. Yeah. That's correct.
Yeah. Three in a row. You get the Wendy's cup, which is a bigger cup, bigger cup. Okay. All right. So here you go. I hope you like the reverb. Turn two. Now it took a while to see,
Tommy Jackett: [00:04:15] Oh,
Josh Janssen: [00:04:16] that's all done. Sorry
Tommy Jackett: [00:04:17] about that, Matt. You're just getting the daily talk show cup
Matt D'Avella: [00:04:21] ones are in that. That is a nice, I know when you, when you were doing, when you're, when you're in the studio, you did mention
Tommy Jackett: [00:04:26] the Wendy's cups. You liked them. We tried to get you to, to use it on camera, but you did say no,
Matt D'Avella: [00:04:35] pay me, you know, it's like, it's YouTube.
It's like, if I have any brand in the shot I'm getting paid.
Josh Janssen: [00:04:41] Definitely. What do you, um, what have you been up to in Sydney lately? What's going on.
Matt D'Avella: [00:04:48] Oh man. Um, you know, lately, uh, what have we, Oh, I went to a wedding. That was really cool. So
you
Tommy Jackett: [00:04:55] dancing? That was the,
Matt D'Avella: [00:04:58] yeah, that was the first wedding that I had gone to.
Oh man. Probably in a year, year and a half. And um, I mean, it was, it was the first time I was around a group of people. Like it was being on that dance floor was like therapeutic. I was like, just like embracing the sweaty moves and the grind. I didn't, it got weird.
Tommy Jackett: [00:05:19] They grabbed him by his hips. Did you, um, Matt, I saw that a bunch of people who from your, your mother landed was sort of calling you out or saying, uh, something about COVID like, obviously there, I mean, you just have to deal with that kind of stuff at a bigger level than we do.
We get yelled at, by people in the street. You get yelled at on the internet by thousands, if you ever stuff up. But, but the difference in Australia versus America, what was the feedback you got?
Matt D'Avella: [00:05:48] Well, it's always funny. Whenever anybody says anything mean in like a DM, like somebody will say something that's kind of like rude or like being mean, or like.
Like that video you made sucks. And then I'm like, Oh, I'm sorry you feel that way. And then, Oh man, big fan. And I'm like, like every time, every time we were actually like really nice people, but I think they just like, I don't know, maybe they had a bad day or like, I don't know, they just wanted attention.
And so yeah, some people saw the video that I posted of like me on the dance floor, just like with my iPhone, like bumping up into like 30 people. And a couple of people got upset being like, thinking that I was breaking the COVID rules. And so I just wanted to be clear in cause like, I don't want people to misinterpret it if they don't really know how great life is in Australia right now.
And so I had to kind of just let people know that, um, yeah, there, there we are following the restrictions and the restrictions allow us to, to grind on a dance floor.
Tommy Jackett: [00:06:43] Yeah. Wop is invited to all dance floors. Um,
Matt D'Avella: [00:06:48] yeah, by the way, I, I don't think I mentioned this. Um, I was starting to say it as I like looked over the recap, but Georgia boy, uh, put together an insane edit.
Tommy Jackett: [00:07:00] You
what a compliment. Thanks, Matt.
Matt D'Avella: [00:07:06] I appreciate it over there. Or like, are you looking to make a new job?
Josh Janssen: [00:07:18] You've got him vulnerable and tired right now. Yeah. I mean, these are the sorts of things like doing a live stream. We did the 24 hour stream. Um, it's you sort of get into this sort of weird state of silliness since like we can't, I kind of gauge if we're making any sense at the moment. Have you, when was the last time you had that level of euphoria through doing work or doing something?
Matt D'Avella: [00:07:44] Oh man. Yeah. That's a really specific question right now.
Josh Janssen: [00:07:49] I get more and more specific. Do you have any friends that have an owl and then if in their first and last names it's too specific?
Matt D'Avella: [00:08:03] I would say no. I'm just gonna say no. Cause that's the easier answer,
Josh Janssen: [00:08:08] like think about like a long night editing all the time.
Like, do you, do you ever stay, put, pulling all nighters.
Matt D'Avella: [00:08:19] I so like when I'm working towards a deadline, I will work a lot more than I typically do. Like right now I'm actually working on a course and it's like, these are like, basically like making feature films because, you know, it's, I have to make 26 videos and there are anywhere from 10 to 30 minutes on top of everything I already do.
And so it's like, you work like 10 to 12 hour days, and just back to back to back and like, I don't work. I don't do all nighters just because like, I think if anything was that pressing, I would just push the deadline. But like, if you have a lot of work to do over a period of like a month, I will. And I think it's like, I don't.
Oh, no, actually that's so funny that you even mentioned that because like Nat and I were both in the same boat where my wife, Nat and I are both working really hard towards a deadline. And, um, at the end of the day we just started getting silly, like giggling over the dumbest shit, just like hysterically laughing at like how burnt out we were.
I don't know if you've ever gotten to that point where it's just like, what is our L like, it's, you're not happy, but you're happy. You're like falling apart. It's
Josh Janssen: [00:09:21] even like, from a, from a food perspective or saying like, it feels like, um, we've been on a flight, like obviously, like not to get too graphic, but like, like, like tomorrow what's what's
Tommy Jackett: [00:09:33] it feels like you internals have just it's like muddy water.
It's just like stopped. You know, it's like a dam that has no flow of water. You just feel that's what you feel like.
Josh Janssen: [00:09:44] Surprisingly, I've nearly closed my, um, my move ring with
Tommy Jackett: [00:09:49] your arm, which is pretty impressive. Um, what about early days, Matt, when you were freelancing more making content for brands, um, and clients, w did you ever do any crazy shoots, long drives or like trying to get back from one side of the country to another?
Matt D'Avella: [00:10:10] I think the, the craziest shoots I would do, and these would be edits, but like there were a string of, I think, like five to 10 edits that I did, um, within a few weeks period where Reebok had, um, asked me, or I was hired by another production company, but they basically were giving me the footage at 10:00 PM.
And then I had to turn around the edit by 8:00 AM. So it was an overnight edit. That was the first time I ever tried Adderall, which,
Josh Janssen: [00:10:39] yeah, what's the downside of taking it all the time. Addiction.
Matt D'Avella: [00:10:44] Yeah. Yeah, yeah, no, you definitely, you definitely do get addicted to it because you started to think like, how could I ever function without this?
Because like, you know, you have like such a laser focus, but there are a lot of really negative downsides to taking Adderall and that you lose your appetite, you lose erections. Like it's
Tommy Jackett: [00:11:09] Absolutely.
Matt D'Avella: [00:11:11] Yeah. So I
weaned my
Josh Janssen: [00:11:16] way off. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You, if you want to relate to TJ just mentioned his bone Ernie's is right there. I haven't
Tommy Jackett: [00:11:22] had one in a while. What do you mean? I haven't had one today. Okay.
What's your weight? What are you drinking,
Matt D'Avella: [00:11:32] Matt? Yeah, I'm drinking a Glenfiddich. Is this a 12 year? Which goes, uh, pairs really well with a little bit of heat. Hi, here,
Josh Janssen: [00:11:45] loving this. I'm just saying
phrase currently eating a chicken, a Mexican bowl braces on, do you want to go on mic? There you go. Thanks.
Tommy Jackett: [00:12:00] Hey, where's Nat. It feels like the Matt's gone wild with not being away out or something. Where is she?
Matt D'Avella: [00:12:10] Uh, actually, I did ask Natalie to, to leave the apartment today because I was filming all day and like I was filming all throughout the apartment and I was like, if it's all these phone calls, she has like three, four phone calls a day.
And I'm like, I will have a mental breakdown if I have to like work around your phone calls. And so I asked her to parent's house and then, um, but she just got back and she's, she's got like really bad seasonal allergies right now. Or COVID, she's just like sneezing, like crazy.
Tommy Jackett: [00:12:39] Yeah. Wait, wait until all the people that were dissing you online saying that was the wedding, the wedding, the allergies are horrible.
The, uh, over the weekend I was sneezing a fuck load. And I was like, am I sick? Just because I don't want to accept that I've got any kind of allergies or anything. Are you allergic to anything? Matt?
Matt D'Avella: [00:13:02] I have, um, a condition it's like a disease called chronic uticaria and angioedema, which, uh, sounds really fancy and scary.
Yeah, sure. Tez. Um, I say that to make it sound like a really serious condition, cause like it actually is just chronic.
So it's uh, it's chronic hives, meaning and chronic hives is whenever it lasts more than three months. And angioedema is just like swelling. So basically, um, you know, it's funny or not funny, but this happened right around the time I started my, I started to, you know, build a popular YouTube channel. And I don't know if it was the stress or what, but like it was 2018.
I started giving randomly, like my lips started swelling up, uh, like my hands would swell. My wrist would swell up and I would get high. It was like really itchy hives all over my body. Is that just how
Josh Janssen: [00:13:56] it works? I give you a play button when you hit a hundred thousand and chronic hives,
Matt D'Avella: [00:14:02] mental breakdown.
Josh Janssen: [00:14:05] I mean, it does, it does seem consistent. Doesn't it to the whole YouTube life. Yeah, that sounds about right.
Matt D'Avella: [00:14:11] Yeah. And so, um, but, but you know, the fix is actually really easy. I went to a couple, um, you know, allergists and doctors and they also said the same thing is that, um, just take our sheep medicine.
And so like, I literally take allergy medicine every day when I wake up. And uh, if I don't then I, I start to itch.
Josh Janssen: [00:14:29] Uh, Kelvin's mentioning inbox zero. Are you an inbox? Zero guy
Matt D'Avella: [00:14:35] devel. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I definitely am. Are you guys not, do you guys like, just let emails fill up in your inbox? Well,
Tommy Jackett: [00:14:44] what, what are you thinking?
Because it depends when I sometimes, I mean, that's the, that is the challenge. It's sometimes you're in inbox zero.
Josh Janssen: [00:14:53] I just have so many different inboxes so I can get inbox zero on work, email. But then not other email, again, I've given up on other emails. GM Jess goes crazy on the folders. I see no point in folders cause you've got a search function.
Are you, are you a folders guy?
Matt D'Avella: [00:15:11] You know, I do have folders, but I don't go crazy with them. Um, I like having the folders there for some specific things like weddings. So like, you know, when it comes to like planning and managing a wedding, what I do is I just throw it all in
our wedding for our wedding. Um, but whenever an email comes in, that's related to the wedding, I just automatically archive it and put it in the wedding folder until Natalie does it. And then if she doesn't do it, then I go into that folder, figure out what I need
Tommy Jackett: [00:15:41] to do. Well, I think it's, I think about it if you have lots on and you've actually got hard work to do.
Yeah. That's when the inbox zero thing becomes harder, but when you've got light work, like there's not much, you know, it's easy to archive an email that you don't really care about, harder to sort of get through an inbox.
Matt D'Avella: [00:16:00] Yeah. So like what's the longest besides, um, you know, emails that you never get back to.
Like how long do you let some emails go? Like, what's the proper etiquette there? Cause like, obviously a lot of people have different opinions there, but like, what is the actual etiquette? Like if you reply too long to an email, is it usually like three days is three days on Excel? Oh,
Josh Janssen: [00:16:20] well, no. So this is the whole thing.
What I was going to say is if it's longer than a week, um, uh, you probably have to say, ah, fuck, it's been in my spam or whatever, but Tommy read the book, um, uh, lying by Sam Harris. And so Tommy's trying not to lie anymore.
Tommy Jackett: [00:16:39] No, it's it doesn't make it out. Like I'm a liar. It's amazing. It's amazing. It's amazing.
Matt, when you start to think about those moments in life, where you, you, what is lying, it's like a manipulation or a distortion of the reality in someone else for someone else. And so, because you know, it is a certain way. Um, there's many times that you could lie, whether it be to a partner, whether it be to your work colleagues or, or, or a random person.
And if you just have the rule, which Sam sort of sets out, is it just quit? It just quit it kid. But if you stop it or you don't have the option to. You realize how many times you go towards deception? Not that it's hard. Liar, fucking Iona. are you a liar? Are you a lie?
Matt D'Avella: [00:17:31] Yeah, no, actually I read the book as well and Matt and I both, uh, I got into a little, like, it's, it's really fun debate because there are a lot of things that one what's happened.
Now tell
Tommy Jackett: [00:17:42] us.
Matt D'Avella: [00:17:46] Yeah, no, no. That's why do you think she went to her parents' house?
Yeah. Like with the, when you, when you lie, you, um, uh, I dunno. It's it's I think sometimes it feels like the easy solution when actually just omitting information is the easiest. And so if somebody were to ask you how much money you made, you don't have to tell them that it's a million dollars, you could tell them, you know, I, you know, like I don't feel comfortable sharing that information with you.
And that is a much easier way to get around it than just flying or making up enough. I feel like
Josh Janssen: [00:18:21] you're worried that we're going to make this whole episode about how much money you've got again.
Matt D'Avella: [00:18:28] I said last time last, after the last podcast, I said, guys, we can't just keep doing podcasts about how success, I don't know if
Josh Janssen: [00:18:35] you saw the episode with Jack POWs, which I saw you saw the, the music bed, but we spoke about his Tesla every 10 seconds.
Tommy Jackett: [00:18:45] And I like it because I like how uncomfortable he gets about it and how he makes it out.
That it's not a big deal to have a Tesla. I mean, he
Josh Janssen: [00:18:51] was saying, he was like, guys, it doesn't have autopilot. Come on. It's just the standard model.
Matt D'Avella: [00:18:57] I love their bit, uh, like the touch of the common man. I use that all the time. It's so funny. I mean, it's funny, you, you got to keep up appearances by making yourself seem poor.
Josh Janssen: [00:19:13] Jay Bay. You really are a common man. Um, and have you got anything in the archives that you could share with us? Uh, yeah. Just want to go into this, pop into the archives
Matt D'Avella: [00:19:22] now.
Tommy Jackett: [00:19:28] Yeah,
Matt D'Avella: [00:19:28] fan
Tommy Jackett: [00:19:28] something that is very common, man. Actually Matt de Villa, this is
Matt D'Avella: [00:19:33] a really funny
Tommy Jackett: [00:19:34] story. Um, and sorry if it brings up
Matt D'Avella: [00:19:38] old memories, but when you go
Josh Janssen: [00:19:39] out of
Matt D'Avella: [00:19:39] the cupboard, I'll come out of the cupboard. Explain that a very common man, just looking up a massage
Tommy Jackett: [00:19:45] parlor and I'm going
Josh Janssen: [00:19:47] to go it. Can you tell us about this massage?
Matt D'Avella: [00:19:53] Yeah, so, all right. The, the other day, Nana, I had just gotten back from a little bit of a trip and then I told her like, I want to get a massage and she's like, Oh yeah, I'll find a place for you. And then she found a place and I want to say, um, I don't want to say the name of the place, but let's just say it was happy massage.
It wasn't called happy. Was I smiling? Smiling, happy massage cat smiling. Yeah. So then I just, uh, she said that and then, so then I Googled it and I wrote him happy massage. She said, it's really great, highly reviewed 130 ratings, all like four and a half star. I'm like, this is perfect. So then I, I Google it and then I copy and paste the address in my phone.
Uh, I see that it's four minutes away. It's a hand job.
Craig Harper: [00:20:47] That's to the common man.
Josh Janssen: [00:20:51] That was good.
Tommy Jackett: [00:20:52] You know what, watching our, these highlights back, um, of how close we have been to people in the past, like physically, physically close makes me uncomfortable. And I don't really care about personal space. November, 2019 in LA. It was probably almost around then. Yeah. Well, it was, it was happening.
That was the pandemic. It was Corona 19. COVID-19
Josh Janssen: [00:21:18] 2019. It is. It's ridiculous. I mean that ally, that LA trip was so much fun, so much fun that we got to do
Tommy Jackett: [00:21:26] it. Get to hang with you, Matt. Yeah, it was lovely.
Matt D'Avella: [00:21:29] Yeah. Trip of a lifetime. I'm going to hold on a second. Sorry.
Tommy Jackett: [00:21:33] Is he playing? Are you going to play solitaire?
Josh Janssen: [00:21:41] he's just like, look
Matt D'Avella: [00:21:42] fucking, I was actually looking at massage parlors.
I want to do, um, let me, um, I got to Instagram so we can get a couple of people coming. Okay. Oh
Josh Janssen: [00:21:58] yeah. That's right. Cause you like, you don't do anything for under 45 people.
Yeah, there we go.
Matt D'Avella: [00:22:07] Hold on. I gotta do that again.
Josh Janssen: [00:22:11] Hang on. Let me put it, sorry. I fucked it. There you go. If you want it, there
Tommy Jackett: [00:22:18] you go.
Josh Janssen: [00:22:19] Two fingers. Why are we doing today? I did not, never done a two finger wave.
Matt D'Avella: [00:22:26] Then this one I got to get the link. Do you think, can you text me?
Josh Janssen: [00:22:32] Uh, yeah, sure. Yeah, I can do
Tommy Jackett: [00:22:34] that.com forward
Matt D'Avella: [00:22:36] slash no, that's
Josh Janssen: [00:22:38] fine.
I can do that. I'm just. I a bit honest. I actually haven't
Tommy Jackett: [00:22:42] what's for dinner, man. Let's do some dinner
Matt D'Avella: [00:22:46] droplet. No, uh, I think we're going to get Chinese cause that's not feeling so well. So I think we're going to do some hot and sour soup. Is that weird to get delivered hot and sour soup? No,
Josh Janssen: [00:22:55] no. today, Matthew, a lot of stuff.
Tommy Jackett: [00:23:00] Wow, man,
Matt D'Avella: [00:23:02] you guys, you guys start the day with wine that I say,
Josh Janssen: [00:23:05] uh, there was a Prosecco open, but we didn't,
Tommy Jackett: [00:23:07] we popped it, but we drank it later. You might get stuck. I might get
Josh Janssen: [00:23:12] fired. But what do you think in food? Uh, like the, the produce that you get in Australia versus the U S is basically the same. Like you eating the same shit.
Matt D'Avella: [00:23:24] Well, it's interesting. Cause I think that organic is a little bit more difficult to find here, but it's not hard to find locally grown produce, which I think is, you know, I don't know what are the standards here? It's like, I imagine it's pretty good. You guys are like pretty conservative.
Tommy Jackett: [00:23:39] I think it's like how they wrap it up over in the States.
I think about whole foods and how it makes you think when you walk in, I feel like we there's great. Like if you, I, I found when I traveled Europe, I was like, man, I'm just eating fucking salt. Like I feel like I can't get something. That's just. Sort of, you know, just a bit of avocado and toast or something, just a bit more plain and less intense.
Um, but America, I feel like does the healthy V uh, uh, what do you call it? Like, they've not virtue. They, um, the optics of a lot of
Josh Janssen: [00:24:12] smoothies and stuff, all that, a lot of smoothies, Jewish, uh, what is the, um, I went to a place, uh, in LA. What was it called? Brazy the one that like we, so we asked a hotel, like a personal, like person at the front of the hotel, like, Hey, we're looking for a, um, just something light to wait.
What was that place called?
Tommy Jackett: [00:24:32] Oh,
Matt D'Avella: [00:24:35] well, it's like
Josh Janssen: [00:24:38] on sunset. Yeah. On sunset Boulevard. And it was like the most
Matt D'Avella: [00:24:42] full-on they were huge. It was like 10 pancake sort of one person
Tommy Jackett: [00:24:48] riddle. Yeah. We use it. Everything from the griddle or, Oh, it's just the name of it. Yeah.
Josh Janssen: [00:24:52] It's I think it's famous. I saw a guy that was on Joe Rogan that was wearing a t-shirt like it was, have you heard of this place before
Matt D'Avella: [00:25:01] devel I've actually never heard of the grid or the grid now, all the restaurants,
Tommy Jackett: [00:25:11] all the restaurants that have closed down in LA, like crazy stat of.
Harris, Sam Harris can't lie. Can't say I was going to say 70%, but I think my friend said that and I was like, I don't trust. That really
Matt D'Avella: [00:25:31] goes too high.
Tommy Jackett: [00:25:32] Do you want some bread? I'm typing it in. Oh, when I came back with the answer, I'll give it to give it to you. And I
Matt D'Avella: [00:25:37] worked out how to, I would get reverb going, I would guess 40%, no, 30%.
Most businesses fail anyway, though. Don't they?
Tommy Jackett: [00:25:49] I mean,
Josh Janssen: [00:25:49] it's about time. Yeah, I'm sure.
Matt D'Avella: [00:25:55] imagine if a politician said that well, most businesses fail anyway, so it's really not that bad of a year.
Josh Janssen: [00:26:01] You're right. I mean, did you, um, did you have, uh, any feedback or anything that stood out to you with the video that we made? Uh, when you're in Melbourne,
Matt D'Avella: [00:26:12] I just, I think that video particularly, like I just saw a lot of people, um, that, like, this is the topic that I don't really talk about that much.
I kind of like pursuing your dreams and creativity and all that stuff. I mean, one that was like the most fun I've had making a video in a really long time. Um, I, I don't think I've put together a blooper reel for that yet, but I have to because, uh, Josh, we tried that one take with you.
Josh Janssen: [00:26:40] I'm such a poor actor.
Matt D'Avella: [00:26:43] Yeah. It's funny. Cause I've been watching the office a lot and so like that's kind of the vibe we were going for where like, you were like, you know, kind of making eye contact with the camera, but you kept doing it uncomfortable, but, um, it was, it was overwhelming
Josh Janssen: [00:26:59] overwhelmingly,
Matt D'Avella: [00:27:01] overwhelmingly.
Tommy Jackett: [00:27:07] Uh,
Josh Janssen: [00:27:10] he's really tired, but I've got reverb
Tommy Jackett: [00:27:12] for you. Do you want to find the stat? Okay. All right. Can, um, definitely someone's bearing. Is there
Josh Janssen: [00:27:17] anything, um, so, uh, Dave, well, when I worked out that I could do reverb it quite easily, it has become this thing that we use a fair bit. Has there been anything sorry about that.
Uh, has there been anything, uh, from a technology perspective that you've overused from a craft. Perspective just because it was shiny and new and you're like, ah, I've got to use this in every shot or I've got to, you know, I
Matt D'Avella: [00:27:47] want to just want to use it. I don't know. I think the, you know, I think I learned very early on that I wasn't very good at like special effects and graphics.
And so like, and I think that's the one mistake most people make early on where they just keep trying to add and add and add to things. And I was like, okay, a straight cut looks good. So I will use that. Uh, but the only transition I actually do use is like the wipe, which is like when the wipe and I like a little whip to kind of do a flashback or a cut to a sketch.
And so I definitely overuse that more than anything else where if I'm in the middle of a video and I'm cutting to a sketch, it'll almost always start. And I think I got that from 30 rock, 30 rock all the time where it'd be like the push and the whip. And then, uh, you got to the sketch and it's just a fun way to enter a sketch.
Tommy Jackett: [00:28:36] Ken burns guy. You like the Ken burns effect.
Matt D'Avella: [00:28:41] Yeah. Let's, let's get into it. Let's get into the details. Um, Everybody like learns about Ken burns, like in high school and stuff when you're in like video class. And I remember doing a couple of projects, like based upon the Ken burns effect. And it's funny how, like, I feel like our teachers are always so blown away by just the innovation of the slow push in.
And like, technology has gone much further, but there's still like caught up on the slow push in. Yeah. Yeah.
Tommy Jackett: [00:29:09] It's crazy how you can make a photo look like video
absolutely brings it to life.
Josh Janssen: [00:29:18] What are you excited about at the moment? Like, what are you thinking about? What are you thinking about.
Matt D'Avella: [00:29:23] Uh, this new camera I do like this new kit.
Tommy Jackett: [00:29:27] can I just give you, um, you know, from one sort of average filmmaker to another great filmmaker, uh, if you're shooting X AVC in 10 bids, uh, you've already told him.
Yeah, I mentioned. Okay. Yeah.
Josh Janssen: [00:29:45] Buffering issue. Just like, be careful of, uh, making sure that it doesn't just turn off. Cause that happened. And TJ, um, I think the, I can finish it. What else can I say? If you want go for it? Um, it just seemed like
Tommy Jackett: [00:29:56] you're panicking. No, no, no, no. I was having fun. So
if you're shooting 4k, be careful Matt, because it will turn off on you. If you can't manage the camera, don't fucking film.
Matt D'Avella: [00:30:16] I actually just started, um, I have a lot of like, cause like I'm shooting this course and I actually hired a couple editors now to like, cause like we're like launching it in like, like a couple of weeks and I've no time.
And I was like, I needed to like hire a couple of editors to help me do this. And so I just decided to actually shoot the rest of it. Oh,
Josh Janssen: [00:30:40] sorry. Sorry.
Matt D'Avella: [00:30:44] She's going to be in the shot. Thanks very much. Uh, I was going to say that, um, Oh yeah. I actually just decided, yeah, I just decided to just shoot the rest of the course in 10 80 P cause I'm like it's in 10 V it looks amazing. And most people, I don't know, they get so caught up on 4k, but when I'm looking at the footage, it looks great.
And nobody's going to know the difference of whether it's 4k or 10 80 P and we there any sort of 20, right. But it's just like the, the, the speed at which I can just even dump a card and transfer footage and then upload that footage. I've got to get, I can shoot for an hour and it's like 20 gigabytes.
And I can upload that to Google drive. When, if it's 4k, it's like a hundred to 200 gigabytes and you just, yeah, it's just impossible.
Josh Janssen: [00:31:29] I mean, we were talking, we're talking a bunch about exposing. This is very sort of inside baseball filmmaker, but I guess there's, we have it. We have, it requires reverb, um, uh, C log, uh, like exposing all of that sort of stuff.
Whether you overexpose it, underexpose it. What should you set your ISO at? What's what's your latest thinking? Like what, uh, how are you exposing things and what do you think when it comes to ISO on the C 70, the Bronx want to know? Oh, that's yeah. That's,
Matt D'Avella: [00:32:00] that's a really good point because, um, well the ISO thing, there's something called native ISO.
It was like the gain on the CA nobody's going to know what it means. If you know what I mean to you, you know what it means, I'm not going to be able to describe it. Um, but the sensitive
Josh Janssen: [00:32:15] it's like the fair, like, if you think about it, it's like back in the day there was like film sensitivity, or maybe you would get like daylight, um, uh, film or stuff.
That's more sensitive that you could have sort of in darker situations. ISO is just how sensitive it is to light. That makes sense.
Matt D'Avella: [00:32:34] Yeah. And so you can dial the ISO, it's almost like a digital way to increase the amount of light that comes into camera. And so then the higher up you go, the more grainy it gets, but there, um, but like, so like typic, so then you might think, Oh, keep the ISO as low as possible.
But then there's something called native ISO, which is like how the cameras are designed to really work and native ISO is different for each camera. And so we were kind of like, just talking about, and I was reaching out to filmmakers about whether it's important or not, because I haven't used native ISO for a long time.
And like my one filmmaker friend responded and said it was kind of, it's more of the. I guess like something with the highlights, it's like, it gives you more smoother highlights and like, it obviously does give you, um, a wider dynamic range, like meaning, like I'm not going to describe,
Tommy Jackett: [00:33:24] this is a free course.
This is great. Do something, sell it.
Matt D'Avella: [00:33:29] This is what, by the way, this is what my course is actually going to be. Like, it's just going to be me trying to explain things and then be like, ah, forget it. Yeah. Google it.
Josh Janssen: [00:33:43] What have you learned through doing all the core stuff? Is, is it a different base to what you used to?
Matt D'Avella: [00:33:50] Yeah. Yeah. I mean, one, I found that, um, talk to your audience first to find out what they're actually struggling with. Cause, um, I actually made this whole course on how to build and grow a YouTube channel.
And I was kind of like at th you know, I, I was coming to that, building that one. I had 10 years of filmmaking experience and then three, four years of making my own YouTube channel. And then. So then I'm like coming from it with the burden of having been through all this experience. And I don't really know what somebody who's really just getting started.
Doesn't know anything about cameras, anything about starting a YouTube channel. You have to really put yourself in that person's shoes. And so we did a bunch of research and like talk with people who were interested in buying a course on building a YouTube channel and really got to the core of that.
Like a large part of the course should be teaching people the basics of filmmaking. And that's like a, it's a difficult thing to do. And kind of like talk about like intentionality and minimalism. Like you have to figure out there's a burden of teaching people too much and going into every manual setting and showing them every single way that it works, because then they get overwhelmed by it.
And so to a degree, you almost want to be really simple and say, okay, if you're just getting started out, use a V mode or use auto mode, and then once you're ready, you can, you know, move along to manual mode, but it's going to, so many people are going to stop because it's going to be too overwhelming. And so that, that's been one thing that I've learned about just like, uh, just the content itself and figuring out how I can actually best serve the actual customer who wants to buy
Josh Janssen: [00:35:20] the course.
Well, I heard a stat where it's like the majority of people who start online courses will never finish them. Like from a student perspective, have you gotten data on like slow growth? Like have you learned anything about like drop off rates or why people leave courses or how many people complete them?
Matt D'Avella: [00:35:41] Yeah. I'd uh, I'd have to ask my brother Mark, who does all like the analytics on that? Um, I know that, I mean, one, we have one course out and I'm sure that we have the actual data on that. I know that there's like stuff that we want to change about the course to hopefully help engage people even longer. I think the fact that like the videos that I make for slow growth are more cinematic that are kind of designed similar to my YouTube videos.
I hope that actually engages people longer. It's hard for me to know. Cause it's like, I don't know what the baseline to compare it to, but yeah, I think that like, it's true. I think most people though, most people actually buy a course and then they never even take the first lesson. I think that's probably the biggest problem is cause like, and you know, I've actually done that before.
I don't know if you guys have, but like I buy a course and then I'm like, all right, I'm going to get to this tomorrow. And then you just get so freaking busy.
Tommy Jackett: [00:36:31] Yeah. What have you, have you done Jeff? Um, cause I just, I, if, if I was to part with money for a course, I'd be so I've done a course and not finished it.
Well, there's definitely this, the bookwork and stuff. That was like a bunch of in-person stuff. Yeah, no, no, no. Another one, another one after school, but no, no, no. I, I, I didn't finish it, but I was like, I still got worth out of it. And so if someone does do a few or engages or sets an intention, once they've paid, like there is a way of it working, but you do want someone to
Josh Janssen: [00:37:03] finish it.
Well, it's like this whole sort of, um, course. Platforms where I guess like in the likely hood it's, I'm trying to think of, I don't know if it's Skillshare or you, to me, I think it's Skillshare. Like, I, it's so easy to not finish stuff. When you pay one monthly fee and you get everything, it's like, it's, it's so easy just to like get in on something and then be like, ah, like I just don't have time for this.
Matt D'Avella: [00:37:30] Yeah. I think that, that's the weird thing to me too, is the fact that we pay for all these memberships. Josh, I know that happened to you too, where you're like, you realize like, Oh my God, I'm paying for like 15, 20 memberships. And I think, you know, that even happens with something like Patrion and, and, you know, I get guilty and I feel guilty where I'm like, there's people that are paying for my Patrion, uh, membership who have not, you know, who have not, never watched a video or like maybe even forgot that it existed.
And so I think like, I feel bad about that, but then I also, patron is kind of unique in that it's people who are trying to contribute to your work and have found value in what you do. And so they want to actually give back. And so it's a little bit different, but, uh, I do think like, yeah, any kind of membership, you know, there's always going to be, I think that's what most memberships count on.
Like it starts with like gym memberships all the way down to like audible and all these other platforms where you sign up for it and then you forget about it. And then three years later you're like, am I still paying for that?
Josh Janssen: [00:38:29] I feel like the, um, that's with the golf. Cause I've got a membership at a golf course now.
I'm just determined for that. Not to be another, another
Tommy Jackett: [00:38:40] membership. Yeah. How do you, what is the difference in making something work and making it not be like the other ones? What do you think is Craig?
Josh Janssen: [00:38:53] Oh, wow.
Matt D'Avella: [00:38:57] Um, I was gonna say that what happened? Oh, if I come to Melbourne, uh, Melbourne, Melbourne. Yeah. I don't know how to say it. I'm honestly lost now because like we say it Melbourne, Melbourne. So if I come down there, can we go golfing?
Josh Janssen: [00:39:20] Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, George, George, this is great. Not only that, but we will, uh,
Tommy Jackett: [00:39:30] Uh, take you to your favorite mess.
Josh Janssen: [00:39:33] I will know. You know what, I'll personally give you a hand job.
Matt D'Avella: [00:39:41] winner gets a hand job.
Josh Janssen: [00:39:43] Yeah. It's not the only, um, Holy one. You'll get, if you, if you come down, if you know what I mean, uh,
Matt D'Avella: [00:39:51] it gives a forced place and gives a hand job to third place. Third place. Yeah.
Josh Janssen: [00:39:57] It's sort of like, are you cool with that JB glove on or off glove on or off? Very good. I mean, the calloused hands that I have with the
Tommy Jackett: [00:40:10] blisters, that'd be a left-handed hand job then, because you need a glove
Josh Janssen: [00:40:15] in your leg.
We can work out the details. Let's have some respect
Matt D'Avella: [00:40:21] take that Instagram post.
Tommy Jackett: [00:40:23] I take down the two videos. You made them with us to batch them all brands.
Josh Janssen: [00:40:27] It's going to, it's going to ruin, you know, but I would very much love it if you, um, play golf. Uh, and yeah, it's a more supportive environment.
Matt D'Avella: [00:40:37] Yeah. I think that that actually would be a lot of fun. I think I get intimidated when I play golf with people who are like really competitive and I just know that you guys.
Uh, aren't athletic.
Tommy Jackett: [00:40:50] Look, we're not about winning in this business,
Josh Janssen: [00:40:55] the losers where the, the, the ugly mates that make you feel good and all the we're happy to beat, you know what like the best ugly, the best ugly mate is the one that will stay, you know, stand next to you. Fucking smile and get that photo. Um,
Tommy Jackett: [00:41:14] boy, I'm going to, if you want to grab the mic, go downstairs and prep the garage.
I'm going to open it up in half is going to roll in. Okay, perfect. Can hang on. Watch if you want, if you want to go and eat your Chinese soup.
Josh Janssen: [00:41:28] Um, Craig Harper is, uh, an exercise scientist, so he knows all things and is currently studying motivation. So he knows a thing or two when it comes, uh, to, uh, to fitness.
And, uh, it will be very helpful
Matt D'Avella: [00:41:45] when you tell him about, uh,
Josh Janssen: [00:41:48] yeah, I think he would love the ISO chat. Um, uh, so, uh, Dave, Ella, have you, you speaking to people about LA, how long are you going to be in Australia for, do you know yet? Or are you still undecided?
Matt D'Avella: [00:42:02] I told you didn't I,
Josh Janssen: [00:42:03] uh, yeah, yeah, we're still on it.
We're still on a, are you, um, yeah.
Matt D'Avella: [00:42:13] I didn't make it public. I mean, I told my family and friends, and that's the only thing that matters, but the fact that, uh, yeah, we're sticking around Sydney until September, and then we're going to be heading back to the States. So that is if we're allowed to leave, we have to get an exemption to leave.
Tommy Jackett: [00:42:27] Oh, really?
Josh Janssen: [00:42:29] What's happening. Okay. I'm going to have a look at the garage. Here we go,
Tommy Jackett: [00:42:34] guys. Craig's just arrived. Get hi
Craig Harper: [00:42:42] boys and girls. Hello. I look there. I am bloody hell. This is quite the welcome is normal Friday night
Josh Janssen: [00:42:49] special. We've got Matt D of Ella watching as well. They
Craig Harper: [00:42:52] met the Imam. What's up
Alyssa. Is that your best? Does he?
Tommy Jackett: [00:43:03] All right, Craig, what we need you to do is pot for a cup. How's your golfing skills? Um,
Craig Harper: [00:43:08] shit ass, but we'll see how we go. Okay, here
Josh Janssen: [00:43:10] we go. All right. Uh, JB, get your other,
Tommy Jackett: [00:43:16] alright. Alright, here we go. Here we go. Craig Harper on the part three goes,
Josh Janssen: [00:43:24] okay. Alright, here we go.
Craig Harper: [00:43:28] Here we go.
Tommy Jackett: [00:43:33] Here we go. Here we go. This is it.
Josh Janssen: [00:43:40] It's all in the
Craig Harper: [00:43:40] psychology. Okay.
Josh Janssen: [00:43:44] Yeah, just, just calm down,
Matt D'Avella: [00:43:47] come.
Josh Janssen: [00:43:50] Oh, it's a very hard carpet to read, which you hear a lot in the masters. Okay. Here we go.
Tommy Jackett: [00:44:02] You're Patty until you get it, Craig,
Matt D'Avella: [00:44:06] that looks good. That looks good.
Craig Harper: [00:44:15] thanks boys. Yeah. Uh, no sugar drinks.
Josh Janssen: [00:44:18] It's not better. Yeah. We've got
Craig Harper: [00:44:21] a bit. Matt Duval is just bloody riveted with this buddy high level into timing.
Matt D'Avella: [00:44:26] You loving it, David. I am impressed. I wish I was there. It would
Josh Janssen: [00:44:31] be lovely. It would be lovely. What you missing out?
Craig Harper: [00:44:35] This is what happened to us in pandemic.
We went somewhat set prematurely.
Tommy Jackett: [00:44:42] All right, come up
Josh Janssen: [00:44:42] top floor. Craig. Craig is joining us
Tommy Jackett: [00:44:45] well.
Matt D'Avella: [00:44:45] Okay.
Josh Janssen: [00:44:48] All right, here we go. Here we go. Jay Bay, where we've got the camera on. You're right. Jamie,
Matt D'Avella: [00:44:54] you want me to get there? Who has had so far?
Tommy Jackett: [00:44:55] We've had a, this is the ninth I think. And we're going for 10.
Josh Janssen: [00:45:00] Yeah.
Brian shelf. Now for this. Here we go. Craig Harper
Tommy Jackett: [00:45:10] coming to the hot seat, man. You're over here. Come in mate. Welcome.
Josh Janssen: [00:45:16] Hi mate. Come on in, come on
Craig Harper: [00:45:19] in a lot of all seven viewers
Tommy Jackett: [00:45:23] and we
Josh Janssen: [00:45:26] laugh too hard at that.
Matt D'Avella: [00:45:30] And those are all from my Instagram
Josh Janssen: [00:45:32] account. All from his Instagram account. Dave, I said, put your headphones on. You. Put your headphones on. Hops,
Craig Harper: [00:45:37] pulled up something I'm live right now and Insta.
Josh Janssen: [00:45:41] No, no, no. This is good. All right, man. Hang on, come in. But there we go. Anyway, you happy with terrible?
Can we,
Craig Harper: [00:45:49] can we put a filter on me also? No,
Josh Janssen: [00:45:51] you look great.
Craig Harper: [00:45:52] I'm going to bloody hessian bag for the viewers.
Tommy Jackett: [00:45:55] Thanks for coming on the show. Craig,
Josh Janssen: [00:45:57] can we, we also have Dave Ellis still here as well.
Tommy Jackett: [00:46:00] And so I can banter out a little bit. We're actually finishing early and Dave Eller and, and Craig are taking over.
So you guys
Craig Harper: [00:46:09] just got way too much time. Yeah, we could, we could do something, do something.
Josh Janssen: [00:46:14] Um, harps how's the, uh, uni uni life going?
Craig Harper: [00:46:18] Um, well, it's, that's what everyone needs a PhD update. Look it's okay. I just got what's called ethics approval, which means I can run all my studies like a grownup. So can you turn up my headphones a tiny bit?
Josh Janssen: [00:46:33] I can do it for here.
Craig Harper: [00:46:34] Yeah. Perfect. Um, so I'm about to run my first study and I'm yeah, it's good. It's interesting. That's perfect, Tommy. Thank you. It's. Yeah. So it's just like, when you're doing a PhD, especially in neuroscience or neuro psych, like me, you're you're you run the studies and your job is to bring new science into the world.
So you're not doing something that's been done. You're, you're either creating something brand new or you're expanding on something that's been done. So yeah, that's what I'm doing. And it's about to, I'm about to do a study with 400 real humans and, um, yeah, we'll see how that goes.
Tommy Jackett: [00:47:10] What kind of, what, what kind of a study
Craig Harper: [00:47:11] are you doing to them?
So we're, so we're putting them through the, the scale that I developed, which is to evaluate external self-awareness, you know, the new experience of which you've heard me talk. For years, and now we're turning it into an actual, scientifically validated, uh, test. So in order to validate a scale, it needs to be used in conjunction with other scales in the research to see how it correlates.
So bottom line is where we're establishing whether or not it measures the thing that I think it measures accurately and predictably and reliably. So that's what I'm doing. And, um, yeah, it's, I mean, the thing with a PhD is you, everything has to be perfect. You know, like you submit your, uh, ethics, ethics application, which is, this is what I'm doing, this how I'm doing my research and it's pages and pages and pages and pages and pages.
And then they always send it back and go, not change this, change that fix that. How are you doing that? Then you send it back again. Then they send it back, you know? So it's this ongoing process. And it has to be because of the nature of, you know, research and published science in academic journals, it has to be flawless because also then the, that, you know, I'm one of the authors, like I'm driving the research cause I'm the student, but you have supervisors who co-author the paper with.
You don't really do much other than just guide you. They're amazing, but you do all the work, but then your work is the, basically the property of the university. So Monash universe. So they're not going to go if I do something groundbreaking, they're not going to go, Craig Harper did this. They're going to go researchers out of Monash university, you have discovered, and I'll just be a bloke.
And this is one of the blogs. Yeah. But that's good. That's, that's what it is. And you know, it's great. It's, you know, the thing about doing something that is unfamiliar to you and new and different, and I mean, a total departure from what you normally do and the environment that you normally do it in is that you grow and you develop new skills and awareness and understanding and insight.
And you know, I'm in my fifties and I'm using my brain in a new way and your developing cognitive skills and study skills and memory skills and explorative skills that you didn't have, or you didn't have in that kind of capacity, you know? And that's that's so it's, for
Tommy Jackett: [00:49:38] me, it's, it's fun. We're just talking about the rate of people, not completing courses that you buy online.
Oh, I would
Craig Harper: [00:49:46] imagine it'd be, have you got a number?
Josh Janssen: [00:49:51] Yeah.
Matt D'Avella: [00:49:51] I don't think that 70% of all businesses fail,
Josh Janssen: [00:49:57] but even like course wise, I think that most, I think most people aren't finishing it in regards from a, from a motivation perspective. That's sort of been. Where things have lent for you. Is that still where you're focusing on like people's motivation?
Huh? No, it's
Craig Harper: [00:50:13] more, it's more broadly human behavior and psychology. So, so motivation is a, a small component, but why we think the way we do metacognition thinking about thinking why we think the way we do, why we behave the way we do, why we tell ourselves the stories that we tell ourselves, how we create our own experiences and knowingly how we drag out all of us.
We drag our programming and our conditioning and our training from childhood into adulthood without necessarily being aware of it. You know? So if you think about all of your beliefs, how many of those did you choose hardly any, they just kind of grew on you as a byproduct of where you were and who you were with, you know, so if you grow up in a Catholic family that eats meat and barracks for Carlton, there's a fair chance.
You're going to Barrack for Carlton, eat meat and be a Catholic. We've just
Josh Janssen: [00:51:08] had someone knock at the door, a bike ride at some form of Uber rates at JB. Can you be on that? It can. I also say from a bicep perspective, we've got some of the biggest biceps in the whole Gronk squad community here between D of ELA and harps.
Some, some of the beds. Wow. He's
Craig Harper: [00:51:27] looking, he looks so useful.
Sorry, Matt. Go.
Matt D'Avella: [00:51:36] No. It's all right. Yeah. Somebody messaged me the other day. Cause like, it's been like an ongoing joke amongst my audience, uh, about my biceps. Like everybody talks about them for some reason. And somebody messaged me on Twitter the other day and he's like, man, I'm going to be honest. I really don't see it.
Like I get it. Like your biceps are decent, but like, let's be real. There are people with way bigger biceps than yours online. Uh, and I have to agree with him. I really don't understand where it comes from. I think it's just like, it's just out of place maybe.
Craig Harper: [00:52:03] Well, I think it's cause you weigh your little brother's t-shirt constantly,
Matt D'Avella: [00:52:11] that's half the battle.
Josh Janssen: [00:52:14] That's it? Well, I feel the funny thing about you hops is I think that you are like an OJI minimalist. Like I think that if you think about minimalism and Dave, Ella's obviously directed the minimalist films. Um, is that being something conscious that you've tried to do in life or is that just
Craig Harper: [00:52:33] happened?
That's really interesting question. I, I, not consciously, but I just, you know, you go through phases where you buy stuff and you think you want stuff, then you get the stuff and then you go, I don't want this, but you got GS on eight, one of them and you get it to go. Now that that's not it. You know? And I think I went through that with cars and motorbikes and stuff.
Right. And you know, like now I literally drive a $20,000. Suzuki I'll wear the S not the same, but the same. You know, pairs of shorts every day I wear a black t-shirt I wear thongs or sneakers. I got dressed up tonight, sneakers and, um, you know, I like, I don't, they're not things that preoccupy me too much.
And for me, like simple as better, I don't want to get up and stand in front of racks of clothes and think for 20 minutes about what I'm going to wear. I don't, you know, most of my life I've shaved my head. Like, you know, I'm not too worried about
Josh Janssen: [00:53:23] being glamorous. Self-experimentation Dave Ella, you did the, a bunch of the 30 day challenges.
What did you end up doing? How many different 30 day challenges did you do? I did
Matt D'Avella: [00:53:34] it for a year and it's, um, It, they were really fun. I really enjoyed them. And I like, I really enjoyed actually like filming them cause they were kind of like mini documentaries in and of themselves, but then it does get exhausting to continue to do 30 day experiments every single month trying a new thing.
Uh, and so I, I did scale back, but like some of my favorites were just doing cold showers for 30 days. That was one of the first ones. And it's just so simple. Um, but I think just like the element of pushing yourself out of your comfort zone and doing something that makes you uncomfortable every day, uh, was one that really stands out.
But, um, yeah, no, I definitely learned a lot from him. Have you
Tommy Jackett: [00:54:11] done, are you a guy that does something like that? Are you going for you? I know you went to one meal. No, you were eating lunch. Two meals. Yeah. So you've dropped one. That's a conscious thing. I guess
Craig Harper: [00:54:22] I have one, sorry I've had breakfast today.
I'll have dinner after this, but you know, what's interesting is that that different things work for different people. So, and, and so we try to find this panacea or this recipe for, you know, what's the best way to eat. What's the best way to sleep? How many hours do we need? How much water should we drink each day?
What's the best training regime. How do you get flexible? Like do I do yoga? Do I do Pilates? Do I just do stretching at home? And the truth is that different things work for different people. You know? So biological variability means that you can eat one thing that I can't eat, you know, because I don't produce as much lactase as you, which is the enzyme that breaks down lactose.
So you drink milk. You're good. I drink milk. And I'm like for three hours, you know, like I've got a furball. So, um, and, and some people do, um, you know, certain kinds of training and their body responds beautifully and other people, they get injured, you know? So what happened when, when COVID happened? Cause I kept just doing what I was doing, which was my normal three healthy meals a day.
And I had to cut back while I cut back necessarily. Cause I was home bound. I trained at home cause I couldn't go to a gym and I put on four kilos, which as you both know is fucking outrageous. My God. And um, and I just went shit, I'm getting fat, not fat, but for me fat. And so I'm going to skip lunch for a week and that'll be cool.
And I skipped lunch for a week. And the first day I got to about two, I wasn't angry. Anyway, I got to about two o'clock and I went, I felt good. And then I got to about three. I felt really good. And my brain was working better than normal days. I'm like, hang on, what's going on? And I was getting a little bit of mid-afternoon cerebral fog, you know, a little bit of fatigue.
It dangerous working
Tommy Jackett: [00:56:09] from home cause he can just nap,
Craig Harper: [00:56:11] but, but also, you know, and, and what I found out was when I don't eat lunch, I don't get that tiredness post-lunch. So my brain, especially right now, my brain needs to be really good for at least the next few years, you know, with work and study and you know, like you guys, I do six or seven shows a week now, which is ridiculous, and I'm trying to do everything well.
So you need optimal sleep, optimal nutrition, and an optimal lifestyle to fuel all of that
Josh Janssen: [00:56:41] on the optimal sleep thing. Dave Allen did 30 days of 5:00 AM, wake ups, which I think was probably the one that you hated the most. Would that be, be a fair assumption?
Matt D'Avella: [00:56:54] Yeah. And I think actually, you know, to Craig's point about not everything works for everybody, you see all these videos on YouTube and online of people talking about how waking up at 5:00 AM changed their life.
And so I tried to go with a really strict regimen of every single day 5:00 AM and there was also, I had travel days, there was daylight savings time. And so it was. Well, and when you're sleep deprived, I think being sleep deprived has been probably the periods of my life when I'm most miserable, just because, uh, everything is working against you.
And, um, yeah, so I would say 5:00 AM. I thought it was going to change my life and make me insanely productive, but it ended up having the exact opposite effect. Yeah.
Tommy Jackett: [00:57:35] What's your number? Wake up time. Yeah. No hours at work for you. Yeah,
Matt D'Avella: [00:57:43] I, it varies. And so like if I'm really busy, uh, I can, I'll certainly do some seven hour sleep days.
That's definitely like the minimum that I'll have most of the time it's around a usually, you know, I'll, I'll, I try to actually get around eight and a half to nine hours in bed because it takes a while for me to fall asleep. And so it's usually like 30 or so minutes of me, like tossing in bed before.
Craig Harper: [00:58:06] And the other interesting thing about this that's that's interesting, Matt, is that we think, um, not only do we need a different amount of sleep or a different number of calories from personal, personal micros or macros or whatever, hydration, you know, but the same person needs different amounts of everything day to day, depending on what we do.
So Matt might be great one day with seven hours of sleep, depending on what he's done, or one night leading up to that where he didn't expend much energy, it was a reasonably cruisy day. On another day, he might flog himself. He might work hard. He might expend the million calories, take 30,000 steps, do three workouts.
And that night he needs nine hours of sleep just to break even just to restore. So it depends on the impact that, you know, what we do through the day has on all of our biological systems. You know? So your nervous system, your endocrine system, cardiovascular, respiratory, as to what you know, there's no arbitrary number.
And this is one of the dumb things that kind of pervades community thinking is that there's a number, what's the number. There is no fucking number. It varies person to person. And for the
Josh Janssen: [00:59:12] same person, is there a way of determining, say a metric or something in real time? Like, I guess there's just knowing your body physical.
Craig Harper: [00:59:22] So knowing your numbers. Yeah. Well, the, the best, the best feedback in the world is your body. It's called biofeedback. Like your body is constantly telling you stuff and, but we've become because we're so technologically obsessed and focused, we pay more attention to some number between our toes than what our body is actually saying.
You know, your body is a constant source of information and, you know, so if you go and have a we, and it looks like Phanta, you're dehydrated, you need to drink more water. If you haven't had a pool since February, either fucking Apple, you know, like if you're gaining body fat, you're eating too many calories, you know?
So like these are not massively. Um, complicated concepts. You know, there are lots of variables around it, but really if you pay, I always say to people, take your clothes off, stand in front of the mirror. And you know, it's not about self-loathing, it's about awareness. Like, what do you look like? What do you look?
What's your posture? Like, what's your pelvis? Like how far forward from your shoulders does your head sit? You know, how much body fat are you carrying? And again, this is not about vanity or ego. This is just about looking
Tommy Jackett: [01:00:26] after yourself and what gets in the way do you think of our ability to listen to our body?
The feedback, um,
Craig Harper: [01:00:33] all the shit that gives us instant gratification like fat and sugar and salt. You know, th the thing is that if you've got to lose 30 kilos, for example, um, just as a, you know, as an example, you, that's going to take a while and that's not going to be fun, quick, easy, or painless as you've heard me say many times, but the problem is like, I can eat.
I can eat two of these cakes that is cheapest. I look good. Don't find them. I can reach forward and eat, eat two of those cakes in two minutes. And I'm going to get instant satisfaction. I'm going to get, you know, instant gratification. But if I. Avoid those two cakes. I don't get instant weight loss. Right?
So one of the biggest challenges for us per se is our ability to just not do stuff that in the moment will give us that dopamine spike, because that that's the other really interesting thing about doing shit that we know that we shouldn't do, like have that 25th beer or sit on the couch when we should go for a walk or eat the cakes that we don't need while we're already overweight and hating ourselves.
The thing is that it's, you know, these things create a chemical response in the brain that make us feel awesome. You know? So if you are addicted to cigarettes or to beer or to cocaine or to chocolate, mud cake is going to be a similar biochemical response in the brain in that it's going to make you feel good.
And it's going to take you out of pain or out of that, that space mentally and physiologically that you don't want to be in very shortly, we become addicted to the chemical reaction. That's what we're addicted to. It's not the cake. It's what the cake will make you feel.
Tommy Jackett: [01:02:18] Yeah, the fuck it's powerful. Isn't
Craig Harper: [01:02:20] it?
Yeah. It's a gateway. It's a fucking gateway.
Matt D'Avella: [01:02:24] I got a question for Craig. Yeah. So, uh, you know, with as difficult as it sounds, uh, life is right now, you know, with the PhD and everything, how do you, in times like this, make sure that you don't burn out and that you don't like exhaust all your energy, by the way, I have to go after this question.
Um, but, uh, yeah, I'm, I'm really curious. Cause like I'm in a similar, I mean, I've been in similar positions before, but it's very easy, especially when you're working towards a deadline to, to kind of, you know, indulge more in the suites and then just kind of get into this negative cycle of feeling like shit and then eventually burning out from working too much.
And so, uh, with as busy as you are, how do you make sure that you don't burn out.
Craig Harper: [01:03:08] That's a good question. I mean, I think life is low on, on an individual level. LA life is largely about self-management my bitch, my ability to be able to manage me decisions, behaviors, actions, reactions, you know, psychology, physiology, sociology, emotions.
Um, and so I just I've figured out, you know, Matt over time, what works for me and I, because I'm an addict as in I'm, I'm quite obsessive. And if I like these beautiful cakes in front of me, if I, one of the cakes, all of the cakes, because I'm just, I'm just, I'm a fucking frustrated fat kid. I'm just, I'm still that fat kid that wants to eat those cakes.
And I wish I didn't say them, cause now I'm a little bit distracted, but the answer to your question, Matt is one having a really good system or a personal blueprint that, you know, works for you, but then day to day being conscious and aware. And so there needs to be a level of flexibility in the way that I apply that kind of blueprint of mine.
And sometimes, you know, sometimes I will, I don't often, but sometimes it'll be a training day and my body will tell me not to try and not being lazy. I'm just actually paying attention. So I would rather go to the gym than not, but I'll just stay at home.
Josh Janssen: [01:04:26] Great answer. And Dave, Ella, thanks so much for joining us today.
Thanks so much, mate. Thanks
Craig Harper: [01:04:33] buddy. I might just quickly, before you go, can you come on my show and I'll have more than seven listeners for you? I would love to check it out and thank you, brother. Okay, thanks. Have a,
Josh Janssen: [01:04:46] might catch up.
Tommy Jackett: [01:04:50] Say Joe George, uh, take a leaf out of harps book at how to ask for something Brian Shelton at your
Josh Janssen: [01:04:58] wedding.
Just ask it to be clear. There is no wedding, so it's over. Do you want to hop? So you winning all
Craig Harper: [01:05:08] this, I'll just say fuck off. That's not the front door.
Josh Janssen: [01:05:14] You did security back in the day.
Craig Harper: [01:05:16] I did security for years getting punched in the face for not many dollars. It was terrific. What
Josh Janssen: [01:05:21] sort of venues?
Craig Harper: [01:05:23] Um, lots of, uh, beautiful venues around Melbourne.
I may or may not have been working under my real name. Uh, ah, well, um, the Matthew Flinders on Margo road, Prince Mark in Doveton, uh, area nightclub in Croydon.
Tommy Jackett: [01:05:40] And she's back in the day where they'll put you more rough
Josh Janssen: [01:05:42] out. Those I grew up
Craig Harper: [01:05:45] in the Midland, they were wild in the middle in Ferntree gully.
First night I worked first night. I did security in Melbourne. I didn't Perth for law. I got headbutted, uh, and my nose broken in the first 90 minutes of the first night on the first night. And I had an $80 white shirt that I saved up for a fuck about my nose, but I was shattered about that shirt. Minnows was never great anyway, but, um, yeah, so terrific.
Josh Janssen: [01:06:14] Is that a, is that a thing sort of in the, um, the buddy building sort of industry for people to just naturally go into, well,
Craig Harper: [01:06:22] not everyone, but I mean, it, look, it was a bit, it was a bit more, um, light back then in that there were not all the, and it's good that it is the way it is now, but it was a little bit more, you know, cowboy.
Do you have a number one of those widen? No. Had no number. We had to wear a particular uniform though, but there were no that where everyone had a number and was qualified and now it was just bloke. So looked a little bit intimidating and could go a little bit. So to like, there was no, you know, just wear a nice black polo.
Yeah. But I mean, you wouldn't last very long. Any not, I mean, not that I was a tough guy. I don't, I'm not saying that, but you wouldn't last very long because it's not, uh, you know, depending on where you work, it's not, you know, I'm not a tough guy anyway, but you just you'd get punched in the face and you'd be done.
Josh Janssen: [01:07:13] The real thing I remember, like as a kid, you would have like the family, friends that were like the people that would end up doing security at all the parties and stuff like that. Yeah. It's
Tommy Jackett: [01:07:25] well, what are you doing? You're looking, you're being you're there for when travel goes down. So you're looking for trouble a hundred percent.
You wanting it, but that's your
Craig Harper: [01:07:34] job? No, well, I would spent 95% of the night doing nothing, just walking around and talking to people. And, but in terms of you would spend, there would be, especially where I worked. You would always be in an altercation, always one, two, three, four times a night. You would never, there'd never be a night where there wasn't trouble.
Cause there's 2000 people there and it's a nightclub and everybody's drinking and doing whatever they're doing. And by midnight, it's just a shit Fest of humanity to just falling on each other.
Josh Janssen: [01:08:07] Well, we're talking about like, um, what time of, I just heard a noise. Did you hear that motorbike? Um, talking about how much you're sleeping and all that sort of thing was doing the security thing.
Oh, terrible. Yeah. Cause I can imagine when you're doing shit hours, do you know what I
Craig Harper: [01:08:24] used to do? This is what I did. I, I worked in a gym. I would get to the gym at five o'clock. This is the start of my weekend. Five o'clock open the gym. I'd work nearly all the day. I'd work till about four. So what's that 11 hours or something, then I'd go home, shower, shit, shave shampoo, no shampoo.
Then I would drive to the, uh, Prince Mark in Doveton, which is outside of Danenong. I would start work there at five. I would work there till 10. Then I would get on the old motorbike or in the Ford escort with the roll cage, depending on what I took. And then I would get myself over to, um, the Matthew Flinders or Morgan road at 10 30 and then I'd work there till three.
So I've been working for 18 hours. Jeez. And then I'd drive along Warragul road, stop at seven 11, get myself a pie, chocolate milk, and two pineapple donuts and inhale those on the way home. But our best, best
Tommy Jackett: [01:09:18] ever totally deserved pineapple. That'd be like magic,
Craig Harper: [01:09:23] magic, pretty much all protein, no sugar, just all protein.
And I didn't hail those in the escort on the way home. And, um, you know, then, uh, and I about seven o'clock on Saturday morning, I'd reboot back up, go to the gym, do some stuff. So my weekends were mayhem, but,
Tommy Jackett: [01:09:41] um, where where'd you live back
Craig Harper: [01:09:43] then? Then I was living in Hampton. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Ah, no, not same place, different place, but, um, I was working in a gym in, uh, uh, Hampton on the railway line called Trackside sports.
Oh, that's right. Yeah. And, um, yeah, it was fun. You know what? It was fun because I grew up in a really, um, straight, a one 80 environment. So I lived, grew up in the country, uh, Catholic boy, Catholic colleges, you know, didn't smoke, didn't drink. So. Um, you know, but I had mates that, that trained with me that did security and they're like, come and work with us.
I'm like, ah, I don't know. And they're like, come on. It's all right. You know, I'm like, is it? And, uh, it's just interesting because for me it was a big departure. I'd never been to a nightclub till the first night. Never been, he got paid the first time. I've never been nightclub in my life ever, except to work.
What about him? You, in, in that garage, there was . That was the first time, but there will be an invoice. So I'm getting paid the,
Tommy Jackett: [01:10:43] um, what was your thinking back then? Uh, w what was your thinking about your thinking your metacognition?
Craig Harper: [01:10:50] What was the level of was just, was not, well, I'm not that smart now, so I'm not going to say I've evolved, but it was like, I was very much about experiences and having fun, but I was always interested in, um, I didn't articulate it out loud, but I was always interested in human behavior and how people worked, you know, and there's some really a nightclub is a really interesting study of humanity.
Like there are some amazing, amazing people and amazing things going on. Yeah. I used to watch, so back then, like this was in the eighties and I would watch guys come in, who I would guess back then, some of them were earning 400 bucks a week that would spend $300 in a night. What w what are you gonna do now?
Like, that's Friday. And, and, uh, and then I would come back Saturday and now would have next to no money. And I'm thinking, how will this? And I wasn't being, I didn't mean to be judgy. I just used to, I was fascinated because I didn't blow money on anything really, other than protein powder and pineapple pies.
Josh Janssen: [01:11:56] When you think, um, security, uh, motorbikes. Yes. Bodybuilding. I go to bikeys. Yes. Having sort of been in the world of the security stuff and the bodybuilding, what's the psychology, uh, of going into gangs or that sort of bikey culture. And has it changed from back in the day when you're doing security, that, that style of biking to what there is today?
Craig Harper: [01:12:25] I'm definitely not an expert in that, so I'm guessing, but I didn't work with, um, I didn't work with any of the boys who are club members. Um, but I, I think there's just, you know, it's like, that's for them almost for some of them like their natural habitat. And I like, um, and it's easy and they know people, um, it's like their church.
Yeah. Well, and I don't think that that has changed a whole lot, you know, I, I've known a few, um, motorcycle club members and, um, you know, it's like. You can only go on your experiences, but my experiences personally were always good cause they always treated me well. Yeah. You know, so, um, but yeah, it's, it's in any group, in any group, whether or not that's a motorcycle club or whether or not it's, you know, a triathlon club or whether or not it's vegans or, you know, there's that they have their own culture, they have their own language, they have their own kind of operating system.
That's, you know, really fascinating. Fascinating. I love, I love, I love being transplanted into the middle of a group that I'm nothing like not better or worse, but just different. Like this is awesome over here, you
Josh Janssen: [01:13:42] went out in that regard, like, I guess looking at the example of the doing security and not going to clubs.
Do you think that that's the common thing or were you, were you the outlet?
Craig Harper: [01:13:55] Um, I was definitely different. Um, and again, not better. I w I was just different, but I, you know, like I learned a lot. I learned, um, you know, one thing about doing security is that you have to be able to read people. You have to be able to negotiate.
You have to be, uh, socially aware, um, spatially aware. You need to be able to be the calm in the chaos. You need to deescalate situations. Uh, you need to be an excellent communicator. You know, uh, last thing I wanted to do was be rolling around the front of the bloody Matthew Flinders in the car park, punching on with blokes, you know, but that, you know, that would happen periodically, but you know, you're not, that's not what you want to do, you know?
Josh Janssen: [01:14:45] Um, is it a fight or flight, like in regards to you personally being physically fit and being physically able, do you feel that in those moments or is there still a level of fear?
Craig Harper: [01:14:58] Oh, massive fear and anyone who goes there, they're not fearful as lying, so they're scared and lying. Yeah. But you're not, I mean, you're not walking around, you know, um, riddled with anxiety because you get desensitized to the job and what you're doing, but you know, for me, a lot of more than say walking around, being scared, walking around, being vigilant and aware, you know, I haven't spoken about this ever live.
I don't think on air, but that's interesting, but it's just, you know, for me, it taught me how to negotiate and navigate certain social contexts that I'd never been in.
Josh Janssen: [01:15:38] Is there, is there a psychology to it that you can take to day-to-day GB? For instance, he says, you say that, uh, if you're in an intimidating.
Position. If he's walking down Victoria street and feeling uncomfortable first, he walks around psychologically. Like he's got a gun in his
Craig Harper: [01:15:57] pocket, right? Yeah.
Josh Janssen: [01:16:00] That's George's words resonate
Tommy Jackett: [01:16:03] with them. He doesn't, he
Josh Janssen: [01:16:04] doesn't have a gun. George doesn't have a gun. They're attending light. You've got one. Okay.
Craig Harper: [01:16:11] Um, I'm not sure about that. George do some study when I did suggest that to Josh, uh, junkie went up to him and
Josh Janssen: [01:16:19] screaming. Yeah, I did. I've had some bad experiences on Victoria straighten. So what I'm trying to like TJ will know everyone noticed it when I'm on Victoria street. If I see someone coming towards even pre, I like to pretend it's a COVID thing, but this happened way before COVID.
If I see someone that's like, they've got an energy and I'll walk, like, even if I try and do a straight line, I'm like, you know, darting away. Cause I can't be fucked with people, but you've
Craig Harper: [01:16:43] got a little bit of Humphrey B bear energy about you, you know, it's like, you're not the most intimidating cat, you know, love people.
Like everyone fucking loves Humphrey. Everyone loves you. You're like, like you're not intimidating. And that's
Josh Janssen: [01:16:59] the shit out of Humphrey. If you needed to.
Craig Harper: [01:17:03] I would fuck Humphrey told me he was in trouble and I love Humphrey, but yeah, I mean, And
Josh Janssen: [01:17:11] so how do you do it? Like, what is the, the mechanism? So if you think about the fear I heard, um, you know, Seth Godin talks about, um, tired when you're doing a marathon.
It's not, it's not about not feeling the tide. It's about where do you put the tired? I guess it's not about not feeling the fee. It's about where you put the fear. Have you worked out a mechanism
Craig Harper: [01:17:33] around that? Um, well, I mean, we are wired for survival and our brain is built for, uh, to be hypervigilant around threats.
You know, that's what your bro, that's one of the key functions of your brain. And so we are, um, we've been programmed for millennia to be, um, even though we don't, even though we live in such a comfy suburban, you know, warm, friendly, well, warm environment that like genetically we are programmed to anticipate, negotiate and be aware of threats.
So for me, if I'm walking along the street and I see someone that I think this person might be dodgy, I just don't make eye contact. I don't look at them. I don't look in their face and I make sure that I don't look particularly friendly. It's not like I just, you know, I just don't if, but, but having said that there's 90% chance, I'm totally wrong, but let's just not take the chance.
Let's just, you keep going this way. I'll go on that way. We're all good. Um, and you know, but most of the time, you know, most like I have very, very little trouble. Yeah. Ever. So
Tommy Jackett: [01:18:49] do you think the, uh, my head hurts, but like the
Craig Harper: [01:18:55] boys holding
Tommy Jackett: [01:18:56] up, not good, not good. The, the, um, the, uh, evolutionary reason that there's a term for it.
So it's like why things, I'm all sort of cycle anxiety as a mechanism that would have been something, a part of our early existence as humans. What is the evolutionary benefit, purpose of anxiety
Craig Harper: [01:19:16] do you think? Yeah, so I, I, you know, anxiety is not new, obviously. Um, but anxiety is not necessarily a positive, um, fear can be a positive because fear can keep us safe and help us make good decisions and help us be vigilant.
But once we start to get out of awareness and vigilance and into anxiety, we start to slide more towards the more dysfunctional end of the scale from being able to cope. Um, so I don't know that there's a necessarily a positive purpose. I think low level anxiety can be appropriate sometimes because that can correlate with, like I said, with visual vigilance and awareness, Um, R remember, you know, many times when, um, I go and do gigs and it's, it's a big audience, or it's an important time, or like I did my first, um, big gig for a year in terms of face to face two weekends ago.
And I had to talk for the whole weekend. So I had to work with this organization and spoke all day, Saturday and all day Sunday. And there was a low level of anxiety around my performance because I hadn't done that for a year. I'd done it a lot on zoom, but having a, an auditorium or a room full of humans and me, and you've got to talk all day today and all day tomorrow, and you've got to be interesting and you've got to create connection.
You've got to be a bit funny and you've got to be relevant. And, you know, it's like, for me, it was like, I just played my first game of footy and it was round 17. And I hadn't done any training because it's not like I did three, one hour warmup gigs. Yeah.
Tommy Jackett: [01:21:06] Do you think the feedback on yourself so that whatever that feeling is where that anxiety is telling you, do you think that is actually an illusion or like, cause I'm sure you did fine, but what do you think?
Like if the real meaning of that. Actually ease for the situation. So
Craig Harper: [01:21:25] if you did do fine, it as an experience is more physiological because there are, you know, there's stuff going on. So usually with anxiety is elevated heart rate, elevated blood pressure, sympathetic nervous system is switched on fight or flight, you know, um, you're producing stress, hormones, adrenaline, cortisol, norepinephrine.
So there's a whole lot of stuff going on in your body, which gives you that feeling. So if you didn't have any of that biological stuff going on, you wouldn't be anxious. Like if there, if, if your SIM, if your nervous system was in parasympathetic mode, which is kind of cool and calm and laid back, and your heart rate was 60 and your blood pressure was low and your body was producing, producing dopamine and oxytocin and all those kinds of cool chemicals, um, you'd be, you would not be stressed physical.
Josh Janssen: [01:22:23] And so w which is first though. So for instance, with anxiety, is it the, uh, so for instance, like, I feel sometimes like my throat can feel a bit funny or those types of things. Is it that's that question? Is it physical first or is it the mental state that's then causing
Craig Harper: [01:22:40] the physical great question. Um, look, this is, I'm not an expert in this, so I'm just going to guess, but right.
You, so when we talk about the mind. Usually usually the mind is first, right? Because we go, um, Oh, is that someone on the stairs? But it's not meant to be anyone coming, hang on, hang on. I didn't, can you hear the footsteps? I can shit. Someone's coming up. Right. All of a sudden there's an idea. There's a story in the F and there isn't one.
I just thought I heard something, but the story is that someone coming that the development of the story is there's someone coming with a gun at least, right? Yeah. Right. So it often starts with a story. And then that turns into, um, you know, these physiological responses, but the mind is kind of, you know, three tiers, which is, um, conscious subconscious unconscious.
So sometimes there's something happening subconsciously that we're not aware of. You know? So your conscious mind is about 5% of what happens in your mind happens on that conscious level. So even, no, right now you're listening to my words and you're paying attention consciously. And you're thinking about the answer or the next question or whatever.
Subconsciously, you know, that we're probably been talking for about 40 minutes, we're probably got 20 or 30 to go. You know, you're going to be at the it's, it's about 17 degrees in this room and there's all this shit that you're in. You're aware subconsciously that, um, that these people are kind of three or four meters away and all, all of these things like this, it's never stopped in there.
Um, and so sometimes there's a subconscious kind of fear happening running that isn't front of mind and that triggers, you know, that triggers something where you're not even aware of
Josh Janssen: [01:24:26] it. I think that the live stream stuff is a good example of like where I'm always that with these types of things, which I think is the thousand episodes, what it allows you to do is to do more things, potentially like add on more things, if that makes sense.
So being able to, so for instance, if we think about the early days of the podcast, we couldn't have necessarily, we wouldn't have comfortably been able to. Have you and D of Allah going at the same time and feel like we're actually able to steer that ship and understanding what's going on. And so like you, you definitely see, uh, through time, the skill is being able to say, okay, I can manage this.
I can manage that more stimulus.
Tommy Jackett: [01:25:12] You think the capacity w you know, we can talk about, like, I have a greater capacity now to function in an environment like this. Are we talking about subconscious capacity? There's a negative processing that has been done by our conscious,
Craig Harper: [01:25:26] but also whatever that thing is that, that stimulus, that thing, that, that was the source of the anxiety, you over time create a different relationship with that.
And what that means is that thing that used to stress you doesn't stress you anymore. Or instead of it being 10 out of 10 stress, that's now a four. And the, the stimulus is the same, but the response is the same, which is why. Um, if I said, um, I've got to get an order to get up tomorrow and talk to a thousand people at an event.
My, no, no, but my overwhelming, um, uh, emotion about that would be excitement because I'm like, cool. That's lots of people. If Melissa who's, my business partner had to do that. She would not sleep for four weeks. She would hate that. That would be the last thing that she would want to do. That would be an overwhelming source of anxiety for her, even though it's doing the exact same thing that I would do with no anxiety.
So it's not about the stimulus as much as it is the experiencer. So if, you know, there are some things that she does comfortably that give me anxiety, because I don't know how to do it properly.
Tommy Jackett: [01:26:34] What do you think fees come from? Like when you have sort of excused, uh, obscure fees that you can't connect to a conscious moment?
Craig Harper: [01:26:46] I think, I think, um, biologically we're kind of wired that like part of that is learned, but also there's an element that's just in our DNA that we're scared of some things it's like. How does certain animals know to be scared of other animals, right. That, um,
Tommy Jackett: [01:27:06] instinct, you could say
Craig Harper: [01:27:08] instinct. So, but it's still it's it's in there, it's in their DNA.
So there's, and it's not like one dog went over and told that other dog, Hey, just so you know, this is what a snake looks like, but, uh, and by the way, they can kill you. Um, but most dogs, some aren't, but most dogs are terrified of snakes. Right. And so if they see a snake, even though they've never seen one before, they'll run a million miles, um, and that's, that's kind of hardwired.
And I think also with us, we just inherently know that there are some things that, that we should be scared of because it's part of our survival. And then the other stuff we just, you know, you learn or you get programmed by your parents or your experiences or your
Josh Janssen: [01:27:53] having your confidence knocked. I feel like can be an interesting one.
So it's like, you might have a base level. Of confidence on something. So for instance, say, uh, before the pandemic, you might feel a certain way about your skills and your ability in front of a crowd. Then you get a break and then, you know, you're sort of getting your head about bad it, and then it comes out the other end with the lack of confidence.
I even noticed that, uh, where I had a bit of a panic attack during a client call, which was really strange. And it was sort of this feeling of not being able to talk properly, feeling like I was like, I'm struggling to swallow. Like I couldn't get out what I wanted to say. And it freaked me out from a confidence level because what it's, because I had that experience, I was like, well, how do I know that that's not going to happen again?
Um, and so like from a confidence perspective, where do you land with this sort of stuff? Have you had your confidence knocked and how do you work to build
Craig Harper: [01:28:54] it a hundred percent? Yep. Yep. I'm still scared of stuff. Like I think the thing is. Everyone. Um, me included everyone is on a level, you know, uh, dysfunctional and a bit scared of stuff and we overthink stuff and we procrastinate and we get frustrated.
And, um, you know, so it depends, it depends what the thing is, but if like, there was a fair element of me going back to study at 56 and putting myself in an environment and a situation where it's like, um, without trying to sound silly, I don't need PhD. Like my life has good. Uh, I'm relatively successful.
I've done. Okay. Um, I don't need a PhD, but I want to get one and I want to do it. And I want to be for a bunch of reasons and not what people might think. Like I actually am now really enjoying the process. I've learned a lot. I understand a lot of stuff that I didn't understand understand before. Um, and it's been a growth opportunity.
And also I love things that make my brain work better, but yet horribly fearful because I just felt, um, hopelessly, uh, inadequate and under-qualified and
Tommy Jackett: [01:30:10] you know, what's the response fee? What is that? Has that rear
Craig Harper: [01:30:13] its head? I feel like a fake, I feel like a fraud. I feel like someone's going to figure it all out, you know, not so much now, but it's like when you go into an environment and people like people thought, you know, um, I got introduced when I got to.
So depart the place where I studied it's called brain park is the neuroscience department of Monash uni in Clayton. And, um, you know, day one, I, we had a meeting and there was just happened to be a meeting that day. And I got introduced and, you know, Cray comes from that and he's done this and that and that, and it's gone.
Yeah. I'm like, yeah, keep your expectations low though. Cause I'm good at all that, but I'm going to be shit at this, you know? So I'm already wanting to keep people's expectations low because I don't want to be embarrassed. Um, but yeah, I think that's normal and I think it's actually great when, when, especially when us men say by the way, I'm scared, by the way, I'm nervous.
By the way, I feel like an impostor. I know I'm not, but I feel like it because I think then it liberates other people to go, Oh, thank God may too. You know, like we, we think we've. I know a fair bit and I've learned a lot and I've seen a lot and I've done a lot, but it's in context of what there is to know.
I still hardly know anything. And I think it's okay to say that it's okay to say I'm a work in progress and I do some things great. And some things terribly. And you know, that that helps people navigate life because we realize that we're all human and we're all flawed and we're all a bit broken and we're all a bit insecure and we're all overthinkers.
But that doesn't mean that we can't do awesome stuff or we can't, we can't take chances or we can't grow, or we can't write a book or we can't do a PhD or we can't build an awesome podcast. Like you guys have done that doesn't mean that it just means that we're acknowledging our humanity while still committing to do the best with
Josh Janssen: [01:32:07] what we've got PhD, obviously going into the classroom, you knew way you stored, or you already sort of felt like you're on the back step, or you had to sort of reset expectations with people in a scenario where it is your bread and butter away.
You have confidence, I guess, losing confidence in things that you think you're really good at is really hard. Has there been any examples
Craig Harper: [01:32:34] a hundred times when you go and you fuck up a gig and you, you know, because when you're a speaker, um, and you're in front of audiences all the time, you know, your, your ability to be able to, um, Set the tone and the mood and the energy in the room is paramount.
And you have your, you have your things that, you know, work your stories or your jokes or your one-liners in the middle of things, you know, and I don't prepare too much. I I'm quite organic, but sometimes something that will land most of the time, it just doesn't land. And there's a sea of blank faces staring at you.
And you're like, Oh God, they hate me. And I'm two minutes in you go. And they, they actually hate me and I've got 58 minutes to go. So, you know, sometimes trying to unravel that is really difficult. And there have been times where I've done. Yeah. I, I like, for example, right now I'm running a mentoring group on Monday nights and that is 12 weeks and I've got 230 people from 12 countries and we do it on zoom.
Right. So there's a bunch of people and they're great. And, but I'm very much freestyle. And, um, I, you know, because I want it to be interactive and organic. And so I talk, give, or take for about an hour and a quarter an hour and a half a bit of interaction in there. Um, but then at the end, there's about a half an hour of interaction.
And so, but I talk about, you know, every week we, um, unpack a different area, blah, blah, blah. Anyway, not Monday just gone, but the one before I literally did a topic for about 15 minutes that I'd done three weeks before. And because I don't keep notes of what I did, it's just all in my head. And it wasn't life or death, but I literally told this whole group the same stuff that I'd already told them.
And I hated myself for a week because I thought they'll think I'm unprofessional or a man prepared or I don't care. Or, and that wasn't the case at all. It wasn't the case at all. Like half of them wouldn't have noticed. Right. And the ones that did probably thought I was doing revision, but the story that I told myself was, you know, that I fucked up and they hate me.
Josh Janssen: [01:34:48] And guess that's, it's the high standard. Like when you build the confidence as a high standard, that goes along with it. Um, JB, we had a, an Uber eats, uh, order come through.
Tommy Jackett: [01:34:59] I was actually gonna wait till Craig leave.
Josh Janssen: [01:35:01] Uh, so it's, it's something. Yeah. The, uh, the show Craig could have, I didn't want it. Sorry.
Emma, Emma Lang no, you guys eat, uh, the delivery is for me something healthy while harps
Tommy Jackett: [01:35:14] is there. Oh, I say this is Emma Lang. She's from, uh, Queensland Queensland. And she is an absolute grown and we love her.
Craig Harper: [01:35:23] Wow. That's super loud. So we'll see how healthy I told him
Tommy Jackett: [01:35:28] deliberate, warm. Okay. I think she may be pulling your leg when she says.
Um, there's Oreo coated. This is why we love you. Oreo coated. And, um, MozBar coated like
Josh Janssen: [01:35:43] little ball. Oh my God.
Craig Harper: [01:35:45] Wow. Literally diabetes in a box. I'll just
Tommy Jackett: [01:35:50] check if it's healthy. Mm. Healthy.
Craig Harper: [01:35:53] Yeah. Yeah. They seem healthy. Wow. That's pretty much a protein ball,
Tommy Jackett: [01:35:59] Emma. That is amazing.
Josh Janssen: [01:36:02] Wow. You don't have to eat them.
Craig Harper: [01:36:06] Um, can I just ask how people seen these cakes? Yeah, no, really?
Josh Janssen: [01:36:14] Oh yeah. Did we,
Craig Harper: [01:36:16] could you imagine putting Tommy's head in your mouth Josh's face before? What is that about?
Josh Janssen: [01:36:22] Um, from JB and Jessa
Craig Harper: [01:36:25] daily talk show,
Tommy Jackett: [01:36:28] uh, JB, did you have any little, uh, archival Mentos? Well, I just thought I'd play
Craig Harper: [01:36:35] one of your videos, TJ from last year when you had to get us fired up for the last
Josh Janssen: [01:36:39] hour,
Craig Harper: [01:36:40] fire up, who's coming in for the last hour.
Can I ask
Josh Janssen: [01:36:43] Ryan Shelton? Wow. You bringing out the big guns,
Craig Harper: [01:36:46] big guns. Um, this time last June, last year, TJ, you did a video every day for a month, which is pretty solid effort. I think it was like 20 videos or something. Um, and. This was one of them during a bit of
Josh Janssen: [01:37:02] low motivation to apply it, man. Yeah, go for it.
Craig Harper: [01:37:08] It's
Tommy Jackett: [01:37:08] only day three of this video project and I'm tired. I've been up the last couple of nights. And I need some motivation. I need to hit. I need my boy,
Craig Harper: [01:37:20] Craig Harper, we've spoken many times about analysis paralysis and a lot of us live in our thoughts. You know, we, we inhabit two worlds. We inhabit an internal world and an external world, and this is where the stories and the self-talk and the self-loathing and the excitement and the joy and the passion and the ideas and the creative.
This is from where it's all kind of resides, but it's not until we actually step out of that. We step out of the, you know, the theoretical construct. That is all of that internal stuff. When we put ourselves in the middle of the practical, the doing, you know, by going to the gym by physically writing that story by, by playing your guitar by you, getting out with your camera and shooting some footage, you know, otherwise everything is just this perpetual idea.
This perpetual intention, this concept, this construct, this theory, this dream that never gets breathed life into it. There will be things that work. There will be things that don't work. I've opened businesses that didn't work. I've done presentations that didn't work right now. I'm doing a PhD, which is I'm still scared, but the only way that I can be less scared and more confident, more capable and more resilient at that very high academic level that I feel very unqualified to be in is by putting myself in the situation I'm still insecure.
I'm still fearful. I still feel unworthy and like a fraud on a regular basis, but that's not going to go. I can't think myself out of that, it doesn't matter what the self-talk is. It's an emotion, it's a feeling. But what happens is when I put myself into a place where now I'm working against the resistance of my fear or my laziness or my procrastination, just like you to Tom, when you go, there's gotta be less lag time between my idea and my action.
Once I step into that one, I'm creating results in my practical results that can be seen. And I'm also changing my operating system. I'm becoming more pro effective, productive, and effective and less stuck. It might get a dialogue
Tommy Jackett: [01:39:26] might've fired up.
Craig Harper: [01:39:27] What do I owe? 27 50 I'll PayPal. Wow. Don't clap. Clap yourself.
That was, if you can make me good, you're bloody. You're a wonder. That was
Tommy Jackett: [01:39:41] good. Fight up,
Craig Harper: [01:39:42] Craig. I don't know that I've seen that. I think I've seen it once. That's very good. I liked it. You did very well. You should. You did, man. You should like get in video production. You should think about that professionally.
Tommy Jackett: [01:39:55] Like our set, like there's such a distortion in our own minds. I watch my own videos. I'm like, fuck, they're not bad, but I don't think about them like that, but I watch it. I'm like, fuck, I didn't that constantly. And it's always been there, but it's like, how much do you listen to it? Hmm. It sort of changes depending on so many variables.
Cause it might be heightened when you're feeling more anxious or things. Aren't going your way.
Craig Harper: [01:40:24] I hate watching myself or listening to myself, which is funny because I'm always being filmed and recorded know it's like my life, but yeah, I don't listen. I will listen to podcasts sometimes if we've had somebody that I thought was fascinating that I want to re hear what he or she said.
Um, but yeah, I don't, you know, I don't know, looking at myself, I don't like hearing my voice much, but it's just is what it is.
Tommy Jackett: [01:40:51] Sam Harris tells a story where he is talking about the sense of self and understanding self and what that means and how there's multiple versions of self, um, in different contexts.
And he tells the story of doing he's a PhD and he is. On one side, a sick, very successful author. And he's doing a class with this teacher who he feels inadequate in these, and he can't do the work or is it something's going on? And then that night, um, Sam's having dinner with the lecturers boss because the boss wants to know how to become a successful author, but he feels so small in the moment where feeling inadequate and then you walk into a room and, you know, you're feeling a heightened sense of self or that version.
What is it for you in terms of self and your understanding of that concept sense of self? Uh, wow.
Craig Harper: [01:41:52] It's a bit, it's a huge question. Yeah, no, I love this. So I'm really interested in identity that like who we think we are or how we see ourselves and ways we see ourselves that way, but also, um, whether or not we have an external, like an outside in identity or an inside out and outside in identity is generally when I get my sense of self from stuff from my bank balance, from my car, from my body, from my face, from my brand, from my reputation.
From my degrees, my qualifications, the whatever, all the visible, right. And the problem with one of the albums with that is when I get my sense of self, from what people think of me or my bank balance, or my power or my, my good looks or my big muscles or my, whatever, I'm always going to be somewhat insecure because that stuff can go right.
That'll disappear at some stage, or we could go broke or we could lose the car or, you know, we could gain 50 pounds or, or whatever. Right. And so, and there's nothing wrong with having any of that, but we don't want to confuse what we have with who we are. But for me, identity is more an internal value driven thing.
It's like, what are my beliefs? What are my values? What's my internal, satnav telling me, um, what really matters to me, you know? And you remember both, you remember about a year ago I was training and my training partner literally died. Um, you know, so we're in the gym and he died. He literally had a cardiac arrest arrest and died.
And, um, I said working on him straight away obviously, and giving him CPR and doing all the normal things that you would do. And, uh, fortunately the good news is he was only dead for 17 minutes, but it's amazing what can go on in 17 minutes. And in 17 minutes it could have been 17 days and all of a sudden, and you know, we all go, Oh yeah, it's so true.
But like, this is what I say to people. Don't wait till someone. Fucking dies or don't wait till you nearly die or don't wait til you get diagnosed with this or that before you start to do a deep kind of dive on what actually matters to you. Let's not wait for the catastrophe. And so for me, my identity is, comes from a platform of, you know, who I'm connected to, what I'm about, what I can do for others.
I know that sounds cliche. I don't care how I can serve people, how I can empower people to be a better version of them and not, not better as in performance necessarily, but happier, calm, more fulfilled, more balanced, uh, more joyful, you know, all that stuff. So I think for identity to be healthy, it needs to be more about the internal than the external.
And we are a very externally focused culture and society. We, you know, we judge people's success on their stuff. Oh, wow. Look what he's driving or where she's living or what she's doing, or look at the amount of Insta followers. He, or she has got online even. And we all do it. Like we all look at our numbers.
Right. But, you know, um, One of my favorite scriptures. I don't want to get all biblical on you, but it's what, what does it profit a man if he gains gain to the world, but loses his soul. And I feel like we are so
Tommy Jackett: [01:45:15] where solid actually written by the founders of Instagram.
Craig Harper: [01:45:18] Yeah. Yeah. That's true. That's true.
Okay. I simple, um, that, you know, it's like we, and there's nothing wrong with building wealth and, and accumulating stuff. There's nothing wrong with that. But when we confuse our stuff with ourself, then I think there's a problem. And you know, it's like, I think because so many people get their identity from all things external, there's this underlying insecurity.
And I've worked with many people that, that your listeners and viewers would know many and away from the shininess of their life. They're medicated for anxiety. They're medicated for depression. They're, overthinkers, they don't sleep. Um, and, and their internal world is crap. Their external world is amazing, but their internal world, which is really where we live, we live in our feelings.
We live in our thoughts. We live in our dreams and hopes and ideas and internal experiences.
Josh Janssen: [01:46:17] You work with a bunch of people who are in crisis or they're, you know, suffering from addiction. You know, these, these big things that you would describe as rock bottom, the idea of rock bottom. You hear people say that sometimes you need to hit rock bottom before the change will come, which I guess is to your point around, you know, having someone die or nearly dying yourself, do you subscribe to the idea that some people need to hit rock bottom before they change?
Um,
Craig Harper: [01:46:52] I don't know that I subscribed to that idea, but I know what you're saying. Uh, yes, I think that sadly, um, we don't need to, because we can all, like, we can all change behavior tomorrow, you know how you just get up and do different stuff and people go, Oh, but how I go, well, what are you currently doing?
Oh, don't exercise. All right. Well, tomorrow exercise. They're like, but how I go? What do you mean? But how, you know, my question is not how my question is. Why won't you like, why won't you, because it's voluntary. Like nobody's nailing you to the couch. Nobody's coming into your house and pushing cake into your mouth.
Like these are all choices, you know, Um, today we've
Tommy Jackett: [01:47:33] actually had a bit of that. Yeah. We can't be held responsible for
Craig Harper: [01:47:37] any of the
Josh Janssen: [01:47:37] exactly. And so what is the, so if you think about what, what is, if you were to define what rock bottom is, because rock bottom in some regards is just a it's everyone's unique version.
Right? So, and so rock-bottom is really just where you ended up deciding that it was enough of a reason to change. And for some people, their rock bottom is or kilos, like you mentioned. Yeah. Or missing, missing the gym for a week. Other people it's 50 years of obesity. Yeah. Look,
Craig Harper: [01:48:13] I wouldn't think, yeah. Look, I think, um, like I spent and I'm, again, I'm no guru in this.
This is just my thoughts. Like, uh, I worked with, at the coalface of addiction with addicts and alcoholics for three years at day Hab. So, um, and I wasn't, you know, I didn't do heaps, but I was there every week. And like at rock bottom in addiction is rock bottom. Like what we think is the rock bottom. Most of us it's like, fuck off.
That's not, you're not even halfway there to rock bottom rock bottom is you're going to die real soon. Like you've, you're going to die soon if you don't. Change your life or change your operating system or change your thinking or change your, your behavior. You're going to die. And, you know, um, even, uh, and God bless, but even, you know, uh, about three months ago and mixed spoken about this publicly.
So, but one of the, one of the guys from Dayhab who was a counselor, um, relapsed and passed away, you know, and this is like it, addiction is fucking terrifying and people like, I don't think most people really get addiction till you've been around somebody who is, um, uh, or, or been someone who is really, really, really at that place where this is not disruptive.
This is like, life-threatening, you know, we're not talking about someone who just eats too many pies and they need to go for a jog. We're talking about people who are stealing from their family, who are allying, who are deceptive, who are violent, who are, uh, never sleeping, who, you know, like, and they don't want to be that they don't want to be that, but they've just been overtaken by this thing
Josh Janssen: [01:50:03] thing, I guess, is that the, uh, what you're talking about there is the cost of that addiction, right?
So the cost of that addiction is it is extremely high. So it's easier to communicate how addictive it must be, because it's like, okay, if someone's willing to do that cost it's, they must be highly addicted when you look at things like food. And when you say that you, uh, you know, extremely addicted to these types of things, where you have addictive, uh, personality traits, how much of that is you elevating, uh, that, uh, part of you to really highlight it so you can address it.
And how much of it feels real in regards to how scary that addiction feels for you? I
Craig Harper: [01:50:56] think their levels aren't there, you know, but like for me, I, I just, you know, and this is, I don't want to compare my food issues with a proper diction, but I think a lot of foods are really interesting. One because a lot of people have food issues and a lot of people have a version of somewhere on the scale of food addiction.
And the challenging thing of course is we all have to eat. Whereas with booze or with drugs, you can just not use or drink. Right. Obviously, but we've all got to eat. And so the challenge then is to navigate our relationship with food. So I'm mucking around about these cakes here, but in heroin, get that, but get that shit away from me.
But, but you know, like for me, I am just an, again, this is not what I think anyone else should do, but I personally, I'm just better not to open that door. Yeah. Cause when I opened that door, it it's like changes something in me. So
Josh Janssen: [01:51:50] when someone says to you, um, balance, Craig have the fucking piece of cheese cake, uh, you know, the, the real strength or the, the real show of character is being able to have balance and you shouldn't be able to have that.
Um, what do you say to
Craig Harper: [01:52:07] that? I think that's manipulative bullshit. I think you don't have to eat cheesecake to prove anything to anyone. And I don't think eating cheesecake means you're balanced. I don't think that the indicator for being balanced is that you can eat crap or drink beer, you know? Um, uh I'm I think I'm pretty balanced.
Um, but I just know how my body works and how my brain responds to certain things. And so I, 100% know that for me, not eating junk is a better path for me. Do I tell anyone else to do that? No. Do whatever you want,
Josh Janssen: [01:52:42] what other people care so much about what everyone else does?
Craig Harper: [01:52:46] Oh, because people love to, um, judge and, you know, uh, influence and coerce and control.
And you know, I've been, people have been telling me to have a beer since I was 18. So just one minute, one might kill you. I'm like, I know, thank you. You drink all the beers you want. I don't want one. Why not? I go, I don't drink. Like I don't drink. I've never drank. And so I don't miss it. And so, but, but not for any ethical or moral reasons, I just don't want to drink alcohol.
I don't see that. That is, that will make my life better. I've been around a lot of alcoholics. I've been around a lot of drunk people. Um, I've been around alcohol a lot and I don't think people shouldn't drink. I don't judge people. I think people should do whatever they want, as long as it's legal and doesn't hurt anyone.
But I find it hilarious that I do this thing, which is actually good for my body. And it bothers people.
Josh Janssen: [01:53:39] Yeah, it seems, um, Stoicisms a, a big, a big thing, especially in the space that you're applying in. Do you see yourself as having the qualities of what stoicism is?
Craig Harper: [01:53:52] Hmm, that's an interesting question. Um, I love the Stoics and, uh, it, it's funny that you bring that up.
Like one of the bits of research that I looked at, I was trying to figure out when the first kind of research proper research or the first piece of writing was done on, um, my PhD, uh, topic, which has self-awareness. And it was in two and a half thousand BC, and it was by Socrates. And, uh, he said, uh, the beginning of wisdom, um, The beginning of wisdom is what is it essentially saying for a man to understand himself is the beginning of wisdom.
I forget the exact words. It's Friday night, very late, but, but, um, yeah. Sorry, what was the
Josh Janssen: [01:54:41] question? Yeah, stoicism lighting it to
Craig Harper: [01:54:45] stoicism is a very practical, pragmatic way to look at life, you know? And it's like, Oh, well, um, you know, my dog died. Uh, I love my dog. Um, I wish he didn't die, but he did die. And so I'm not gonna, I'm not going to sit on the couch for the next three months.
Um, and that, that seems very harsh to some people, but, you know, I think it was Socrates, right.
is Marcus or really a sweet potato.
Josh Janssen: [01:55:15] Um, the, the idea of, uh, stoicism, what you're describing and the, the more toxic idea of suck it up, mate. Um, how, how do you sort of distinguish between those two ideas?
Craig Harper: [01:55:30] So the, suck it up, mate. It it's, you know, it's a really interesting time now because we were navigating a new era of communication and media and accessibility to opinion, you know, with what we've got right now.
So this is anyone in any country in the world that's got access to the internet can watch this in Hawaii, you know, three fuckwits in a room talking about not much. Right. You know? Um, but I think, um, I think being able to there's a time where people will respond, um, to directness, but you don't want to, you don't want to, you know, some people, some people pretend that their aggression or their coercion is just being direct and honest, you know, it's a slippery slope.
Um, what is coercion is when you, you. What does it mean? Coercion means when you're trying to manipulate or force someone to behave a certain way against probably against their will or awareness. Um, and so, you know, it's like, I personally, there are times when I will call people on their bullshit, but I know them, I know them and I'm coming from a good place.
Doesn't mean I'll always produce a good outcome, but I think too, that, you know, there's a real danger in, you know, in mollycoddling people and you know, not everyone needs a trophy or a ribbon because you didn't eat cake today. Well done, you know, Oh, I w I walked two Ks. I'm going to post that on Facebook.
And if I don't get a hundred likes and ticks and approvals, I'm gonna capitulate, you know, Hey, you're a 40 year old dude. You don't need a round of applause because you didn't eat. McDonald's like, it's this fucking pathetic, like harden up a little bit. Like, you're not a baby. Like we, we need to, yes, we need to care for people.
We need to be understanding and aware and empathetic, but we also need to help people become strong and resilient so that when the shit comes and the shit is coming, um, that they are okay. Like I want to help people be independent, strong, and resilient. I don't want them to rely on me. I don't want them to rely on another person.
We're not talking about people. Who've got a disability here. We're talking about people who don't have a disability who there's nothing in inverted commas. Um, there's, there's no reason why they can't go for a walk or eat well or make good decisions or embrace new behaviors. You know? Um, I just think that it's, it's difficult because people are so fucking predisposed to getting offended at anything.
Josh Janssen: [01:58:18] It's interesting. Cause it feels like in one regards, people are overly sensitive, but at the other end people aren't feeling enough and actually listening to themselves. I find that that contrast is where we land with, with, with, with this stuff is it's like, how do you, how do you also like between those two ideas, the listening to yourself, um, and being sensitive, like since it, like, do you say sensitivity as a strength or a weakness?
Craig Harper: [01:58:51] Um, w I would probably use the term empathy. Like I genuinely love people and I want to, I love dudes. I love girls. I love, I should say men and women I'll get in trouble for that. I love people. I love helping people to help themselves, but I also think. Love is not always about telling people. They're awesome.
Sometimes that's actually debilitating. Sometimes you're not awesome. Sometimes at the moment you're being a Dick head doesn't mean I don't love you doesn't mean you can't do great things. It doesn't mean you don't have amazing potential, but you're not being awesome. And by the way, you're not special.
You're just another human. Just like I'm not special. Like we, you know, there are some really kind of over the top boom, fluffy messages that I, I believe do more harm than good because yes, we want to support and encourage and love people, but we also want them prepared for the messiness and the bullshit of life.
And
Josh Janssen: [01:59:54] so the idea of coercion and thinking about, I guess, even people's inability to not project themselves onto others. How, how do you then work on things like advice or even say, thinking about thinking about what you're describing, which is like, you know, fucking, you want to kick some people out of the ass and say, you need a reality check.
You're being too soft with this, or you're being overly sensitive. There's a. It's weird because I look at myself and say how I have blinders on half the time, or I'm not completely in tune with how I'm being or, or, you know, not completely aware to the situation. And then I think, you know what, maybe I've got that same blinders on for the people around me.
Like, it seems like it seems really clear when we see someone else and we see their problems, but maybe, maybe they're not. Any more clear, maybe we just have a greater ability to project onto others. Um, and so then advice version versus coercion, uh, doing something that's going to help someone versus it's just actually projecting your own bullshit onto others.
Craig Harper: [02:01:16] Yeah. Look, that's great. That's a great point. I think my, my question is, did they ask for it? Yeah. Did they ask for it or did you, do you want my feedback? Do you want my insight? Do you want my thoughts? If you don't cool. Yeah. I'm not. I never give people advice that they haven't asked for. Never. I used to doesn't work, even if it's the right advice or you believe it's the right advice because that like you can't, you know, what's that saying?
The student, you know, when the student's ready, the teacher will appear, the student has to be ready. Like the person, like people have given me advice over the years, which was really good advice. And I was pissed off at them and I was the problem. They weren't the problem. They weren't doing anything wrong.
I just wasn't ready. You know, and, and you have to be, um, ready to step into whatever it is. Self-awareness, you know, self acknowledgement, whatever.
Josh Janssen: [02:02:12] Uh, when it comes to big changes in decisiveness seems to be a common thing that, you know, we can, many people can relate to whether they experience it or they have loved ones or friends that experience in decisiveness.
How do you work through in decisiveness? And what do you think in decisiveness actually is
Craig Harper: [02:02:34] can I help you out in decision and
Josh Janssen: [02:02:36] decision? Yeah.
Craig Harper: [02:02:37] Thank you. She making that way longer than you. Um, I think it's mainly about that is a good question too. Um, our lack of willingness to get uncomfortable because usually if we're indecisive, um, we are not making a decision about something that we probably should, we're avoiding a decision or we're not taking action or not committing to something that, you know, so we might be indecisive about going to the gym or joining the gym or giving up that thing or taking up that thing or whatever it is.
Um, uh, and, and that is like the dichotomy is, and you've heard me say this a million times, but on the one hand we want to change. Like most people, they want to be whatever, healthier fitter, leaner, stronger, more balanced, more fulfilled. I don't know, more excited, more inspired, whatever it is, you know, most people.
Uh, if you, if you talk about them and their journey and where they're at and what they'd like to do, be creative in the next one to five years, they are things that they would like positive change, but then to change, change requires change, change of behavior, change of rules, change of operating system, change of habits, you know, and all of these things is, uh, all of those things is all of these things are uncomfortable generally.
So on the one hand we want, we want the results of the, of the journey, but we don't necessarily want to get uncomfortable enough to, for long enough to create that outcome
Josh Janssen: [02:04:14] perfectionism too, maybe.
Craig Harper: [02:04:16] Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I'm a little bit OCD with some things, a bit perfectionistic, other things, not so much, like I'm very the stuff that, you know, like that the stuff that I put out into the world, you know, like I can, I can put up something on, I can write a whiteboard as you know, my Insta is whiteboard lessons, right.
At whiteboard lessons, but I'll, I'll write something and it's nine and a half out of 10 on the whiteboard, then I'll rub it off and rewrite the whole lot because two of the letters are too close to the edge of the board. Or, and no one would notice it, but me, but I just, you know, great
Tommy Jackett: [02:04:57] handwriting. And you're a
Craig Harper: [02:04:58] lefty.
I forgot about that. Yeah. My dad's an artist and I, I am naturally quite artistic. I had a screen printing business for a year when I was a kid. And so I used to literally design logos for people before computers were a thing. So I would hand design logos and using all kinds of stuff that we use back in the day, dentals and stuff that you use for what's called technical drawing or architecture, or all those things where you use protractors and different kinds of, you know, um, tech drawing
Tommy Jackett: [02:05:31] tools.
Where's the creativity come out in a PhD. Uh,
Craig Harper: [02:05:35] there is very little, very little, I don't give a shit about your creativity. They don't give a shit about your personality, or I
Tommy Jackett: [02:05:44] think, I think thinking about life it's not perfect. And the PhD process sounds like there's a lot of people who are needing it to be a version of perfect.
Um, how has that grounded in reality like it, the, the one that most of us are experiencing where perfect perfection isn't
Craig Harper: [02:06:02] well, they just want the science to be. Uh, right. You know, so it has to be, and I understand it. I don't think it's a bad system at all. I think it's the right system, but it's like, you know, if you, if your mum's unwell, um, and my mum's been unwell, a bunch of times, you, you don't want them having a stab in the dark when you're doing the surgery or when they're administering those drugs or you want them to know exactly what the, you know, and so that's science and that's research and that's, you know, so, but it is, it, there's not, it, it, it, it's definitely not for everyone.
Um, you know, academia at that level. And it's, um, you know, it is very, it is very specific and you have to, you, you're not going to go in there and change anything. It's the system is the system you work within that you learn the language, you learn the culture, you sit in your cubicle, you learn how to research.
You learn how to write academically. You learn how to do science at a high level. Um, you learn to become more efficient and effective. You learn to skim really well because every academic article is 30 pages. It's crazy. Yeah. It's crazy. It's uh, yeah. It's, uh, it's a commitment. That's all right. No, one's making me do it.
Josh Janssen: [02:07:25] Oh, thank you. Uh, for taking the time on your Friday
Craig Harper: [02:07:30] night. Where's your Ryan?
Josh Janssen: [02:07:31] Uh, he's in, she's here in half an hour at nine 30, nine 45.
Craig Harper: [02:07:36] I'm heading straight to McDonald's. I'll be taking those cakes with me. Congratulations boys. It's amazing. You've done a you've done great things and you continue to do great things in Georgia.
You've been a bloody, a boon for the team. You've been a blessing. Uh, thank you, man. Probably the most valuable women, to be honest, but you got these two blokes egos in check.
Josh Janssen: [02:07:59] Yeah. And thank you to harps for all the support. Yeah.
Craig Harper: [02:08:03] Pleasure. You guys are great. You great? All right, everyone. Love you guys. All right.
Tommy Jackett: [02:08:08] Now one more Pat or no, no, no, no. You got one in. There you go. Thanks buddy.