Josh's bro from America

Josh: It's The Daily Talk Show. I'm Josh Janson.

Tommy: Tommy, is this what we're doing now? Yeah, we spoke this morning about do we say our names. I'm Tommy Jackett.

Josh: The way you've said it, it sounds naff as fuck, but we're up to episode 78.

Tommy: We've got a special guest. Yep. Uh, firstly, I'd like to say, have you listened to our show? I have. Okay, so you know what to expect. I'm a dog with two dicks and, um, Josh lives in the past. But no, please welcome Josh Jansen's brother James.

Josh: How are you?

James: Pretty good, thanks for having me.

Josh: James Jansen, all the way from, uh, North Carolina.

James: Yep.

Tommy: So the first time this is the— I actually heard Josh said we have my brother on the podcast, and I was like, we've already had him on.

Josh: Well, you mean Jake? Well, we didn't even have Jake on.

Tommy: He was kind of on.

Josh: Oh, he was on the Krispy Kreme.

Tommy: Exactly, that's why I was like, yeah, I was Krispy Kreme. And then I hardly even knew you existed. Not because Josh doesn't talk about you, because you live overseas.

James: Yeah, yes, I've been over there almost 6 years now. So when you got a brother like Josh, your only option is to kind of escape the country.

Tommy: Can we do these gags coming from the Jansen bloodline? Like it?

Josh: Can you appreciate his accent? Is that intense or what?

Tommy: Well, I was going to ask you, like 6 years you've lived there?

James: Yep, 6, almost 6.

Tommy: At what point did you start saying tomato?

James: So, I don't say tomato, I still say tomato. It's just, yeah, it's turned into this terrible hybrid thing. Probably happened maybe 2 years in that it turned into this kind of hybrid deal. I guess that's what happens when you don't interact with Australians too often. So, kind of hopeful that it will It'll mellow down a little bit this next 3 weeks or so while I'm here.

Tommy: Um, now you're good.

James: Because I cop it.

Tommy: Because my, my, um, cousin lives in London and has this— yeah, it's like a butchered Australian accent.

Josh: That's terrible.

James: I quite like it.

Tommy: It's just coming in and out. Like, you— I'm so hearing the Aussie accent plus this integration.

Josh: Certain words.

Tommy: Do you think you need to— do you think you do it, um, is it unconscious, this development of it, or do you actually do it to blend in?

James: I think it's completely unconscious in like the approach, but it may be in like some ways to blend in. Like there's certain words you would say like just in day-to-day life that you end up saying the way that they want you to say it, and it's not a conscious thing like, oh, I'm gonna say like water now and like this and that. But that's— yeah, I think that's probably how it is. Completely unconscious. There was no— nothing deliberate about At all.

Josh: So James, how did you end up in North Carolina?

James: So I ended up going across originally for graduate school. So I was—

Tommy: This is actually the first time Josh is learning any of this.

James: Josh didn't know this.

Josh: So graduate school is like, is that the final year?

James: No, so basically I was, I did my kind of bachelor's undergraduate in exercise science here in Australia. And then spent about 4 years teaching and helping with some research at Deakin University. While that, was kind of playing, coaching basketball. Decided there was kind of a lot going on, and so ended up wanting to kind of do something a bit different. So ended up getting into kind of a master's program, graduate programme at Wake Forest University., in the US, in North Carolina, and that's kind of what got me across there.

Josh: So, so I've been to Wake Forest. It's fucking intense. They've got like, uh, yeah, it's super— it's like a wealthy— like, how do you describe it, James, on the, the spectrum of unis? It's a private institute? It's like a private one?

James: Yeah, so it's, uh, it's private, private university, um, kind of in the, in the south of the US, um, on the smaller side. So We're talking only about 5,000 students or so. It's been in a bunch, been in a bunch of movies. Um, it's just your— it's your, yeah, classic Southern private university.

Tommy: You're gonna drop a movie? I mean, I might not.

James: Josh, probably. So, uh, there was a famous movie called Bryan Song, which was a sporting, sporting movie, um, out of there. There's been some stuff more recent. I think it was The Matrix.

Josh: Surprising.

James: Is it the most mentioned movie on our podcast? There's the— I think, is it the Nicholas Sparks has like a series of movies or something?

Tommy: Yeah, I was really happy you were gonna say Drake's latest film.

James: No, so they, they basically used it, uh, I guess that's like a teeny bopper type setup.

Josh: Yeah, but so, but there's like, uh, last time I was, uh, in, uh, I went to Wake Forest, like visited, uh, last time I went and saw James, and they had like an indoor NFL Is that right? Am I saying this right?

James: Yeah, so the football programme just built an indoor facility, which is, uh, pretty nice. We get, we get kind of stormy weather through, uh, through kind of the, the late kind of fall, um, when they're wanting to practice. So they built an indoor facility. So we're talking a 120-yard-long indoor practise facility worth millions and millions of dollars.

Tommy: They've spent so much money, like college games of NFL, what is it? What's it? Football, they just call it.

James: Yeah.

Tommy: They get like, some get 100,000 people to a game.

Josh: So, yeah, what is the reality of college sports to give people a context? Because I know it's ridiculous, but how ridiculous is it? Where, you know, what's sort of the scale?

James: Yeah, so I think it's like, you can't really make a good comparison within an Australian context of what college sports is all about, because it's just— it's so unique from the perspective of the ages of these, these student athletes. Like, these guys are 18 to 22 years old, that's when they're rookies or not playing in the, in the AFL, um, and you're talking big, big stakes. So at Wake Forest, for example, um, kind of playing at the, the premium level of things Um, football crowds are going to be somewhere around 30,000 to 35,000 with a home setup, but they'll play some teams on the road.

Josh: That's a good game of AFL at the MCG on a Sunday, like the national— like Australia's national sport.

Tommy: Fucking crazy.

James: Yeah. And then, uh, you're talking some of their road games, they play some of the biggest schools. They play at Notre Dame, they play at Florida State, Clemson, who've kind of been really good recently, that are upwards of the 80,000. And then, uh, Wake Forest, our basketball stadium, is pretty much— or that's where I was for graduate school— capacity was pretty much the equivalent of Rod Laver Arena. And so, we're a small 4,000-student school and, yeah, sitting there with a Rod Laver Arena in our backyard.

Tommy: I mean, we should have just saved yesterday's discussion about moving overseas to today because yesterday we talked about you know, moving overseas and will we ever do it. What's like— Josh is quite well travelled for a, for a guy who lives in the burbs. I would think that a lot of people that live out where you grew up aren't travelling like you have and definitely not moving to Carolina. Where is it?

James: North Carolina.

Tommy: North Carolina. So what's the, what, what's the real feeling of moving overseas?

James: Um, I think it's, it's different a lot of ways. Like, I like the, the approach that I did it in terms of it's It's not like I'm living in a city. It's not like I'm immersed with all of these other people that are also travelling or not from around there. So, I like that approach that I'm really kind of immersed in the southern US, North Carolina culture.

Josh: Is there a full novelty? It's not like an Australian going to London where you fucking go into your little pocket and there's all Australians everywhere.

Tommy: Like, you can't escape Australians in London. Yeah. Just Bogan's getting pissed.

James: Yeah.

Josh: And so, yeah, so North Carolina, was there any other areas that you could pick from, or was that just you sort of had this offer?

James: Uh, it was, yeah, it was kind of how it was set up that I had a scholarship to go there, and I didn't really look into other scenarios at that point in time. So I was open to moving anywhere at that stage, and, um, that was the one that popped up first and was a really good situation.

Tommy: What's the age difference between you guys?

James: 4 years, 4 and a half.

Josh: Yeah. Well, I'm 27. How old are you? 30? Yeah, 32.

James: 32.

Josh: Yeah. So, the— Do you think that you'll live in the US forever?

James: Yeah, I think there's a good chance. The stuff that kind of I really appreciate about is like the cost of living there is particularly North Carolina is very achievable.

Josh: So, we bought a house.

James: Yeah, we bought a house 2 years ago. Yeah.

Tommy: What's the property prices, entry level?

Josh: Tommy wants to know how much.

James: So, you're talking kind of our neighbourhoods, which would be, so, we're in a medium-sized town, probably like a Geelong-sized town.

Tommy: What's the closest big city?

James: Charlotte.

Josh: Charlotte.

James: So, Charlotte's pretty big. Charlotte's probably a similar size to maybe some of the smaller capitals, like a Brisbane or— maybe an Adelaide type size. We're about an hour north of there, so I actually work down in that, that area now in my current basketball coaching job. Um, but we're talking kind of in, in this, this town, we are entry-level house of like something you'd consider the suburbs that you'd want to live in, somewhere around the $150,000-$160,000 US. So we're talking about $200K.

Tommy: How did you find actually borrowing money over there?

James: Um, so I have an American wife, so that, uh, made it easier. Now I'm a permanent resident. Everything from that perspective is, is a lot easier.

Tommy: So is that a citizen, a permanent resident?

James: So it's different from a citizen. Citizen means you can vote and do all the other things. Permanent resident means you can be there indefinitely and you can't vote. Can't vote right now. Yeah, so you can't blame me.

Josh: I, I saw, um, lucky I didn't wear my Trump hat.

James: Make America— I, I was actually shocked. We were at the airport airport yesterday coming across, and we're going through, about to hop on our Qantas flight, and it was, it was clearly an Australian that had been over there doing some, some holidaying, and she was rocking a Make America Great Again hat, and I thought it was pretty distasteful.

Josh: It's almost like it's a, it's probably pop culture, like they see a fucking movie, like they're leaving it leaving the US and probably treating it like it's some pop culture reference, but it's very real, man.

Tommy: Um, I've been listening to— so, you know Kanye West?

Josh: Yep.

Tommy: Have you seen what's been happening at the moment?

James: Uh, so I guess the one thing I caught was that he, uh, decided he loved Donald Trump. Is that what happened?

Tommy: Yeah, there is so much to it. I listened to— my, my wife was like, what the fuck? I, I got into her about wasting time, and then she's like, you wasted an hour and 45 minutes watching a Kanye West interview last night. So I was in bed listening to this interview, it gets so deep. I actually think you'll really like it, Josh. Yeah, it's like— and I can't speak for you, but it's like they start talking about some real interesting things about, you know, how the media works and fame, but also like it's almost like life lessons. Like he's, he's gone so deep, and it's all the stuff about Trump, and he's— and he wore a hat and got a photo with Trump or something, and he talked about like rappers ages ago It's the— it was the thing before he was president. It was cool to put Trump in your fucking— your rap lyrics. It was like this funny thing that sort of gained momentum. Everyone was using it.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: And it gave you almost like cred. And, um, it's, it's so interesting sort of listening to his take on him just wearing that hat as a Black American and what has happened as a result of that. What's the vibe on Trump in North Carolina?

James: Yeah, so it was interesting because, uh, in the lead-up to the, the election, um, North Carolina was considered probably one of the, the swing states. So we had a lot of activity, um, in North Carolina in the months leading up to, um, leading up to the election. Part of that is, um, there's kind of a lot of northern transplants in North Carolina. So people from the Northeast that decided it's too cold, the New York kind of Boston-type areas move down. So, they're more historically kind of Democrat. And then your typical North Carolina person is probably from more the Republican mould.

Josh: Because I imagine it being a red state. So, did it go, did it swing? Yeah.

James: So, it ended up going in the Trump direction, but there was a lot of effort put in kind of prior. So, we had like, and they frequent the university areas a lot. So, We had Hillary on campus where I was working. We had Donald Trump kind of 2 minutes from campus where Erica works. We had Bill Clinton there the night before the election. Just sniffing around. Just, yeah, just chatting.

Tommy: Hanging out.

James: Yeah. Potentially.

Josh: Just creeping in the colleges. Yeah, yeah. And yeah, so North Carolina—

Tommy: Is full of Trump supporters. Is that what you're saying?

James: Yeah, I wouldn't say it's full of them.

Tommy: I think it's just kind of—

James: kind of mixed bag.

Tommy: And like, your mates, is this people you know?

Josh: That—

James: Yeah, I would say like, I would say it's kind of a little bit 50/50 around the university, around the more kind of educated areas. It's probably a little less so, but, um, yeah, like, it definitely doesn't discriminate on— Like, the stereotypes are there, but it doesn't necessarily have to hold true.

Tommy: What's the stereotype? I'm just trying to gauge it from Australia because it's like you know, oh, you voted for Trump? It's like, I don't even know what that means.

James: Yeah, like, I think that in, in some ways you'd, you'd think that there'd be some elements of like the, the more country folk, uh, rednecky. I think, yeah, a little more rednecky. And, and that's the thing that's hardest to— for people that haven't been to the US before, it's kind of hardest to, to really wrap their head around is kind of the, the way the population's distributed. Like you're gonna go and there's like just these small towns all, all over that are not necessarily super small. So you're gonna drive to a Shepparton, that's gonna be another million, 2 million people. You're gonna drive another 2 hours to, uh, Horsham and there's another 2 million people, or a central area of—

Tommy: Yeah.

James: Um, so I think that's the difference. And but there is definitely like a break. It's not like you're going to be driving around We're driving and walking around Melbourne today and kind of Erica noted like we were out in Roval this morning and drive all the way from Roval to the city and it's suburbs the whole way. That's very different to how it kind of is over there.

Josh: So why are you in Australia at the moment?

James: We're doing a bit of kind of vacationing, visiting family and we haven't been for 3 years. We'll do a little bit of work in terms of kind of the basketball side of things and Connecting with, with my network over here, and I'm here for a conference next week. And so work—

Josh: can you— so you did the exercise science master's or whatever program, and now you're working full-time? Yeah, right.

James: So, so basically I, I went across in the exercise science mold. That was kind of my, my vehicle to go across there. And so my master's over there was in that, did a lot of health-related research, mostly with older adults while I was there. And during my time at Wake, also worked with their women's basketball program. So spent 5 years with that program, and then, then last year, opportunity came up to become a full-time assistant coach at Davidson College. So for those that kind of don't know Davidson College, haven't heard of Davidson, Davidson's where Steph Curry played. So, everyone, most people kind of know Steph Curry is kind of the face of basketball these days. I'm really proud that I know who Steph Curry is.

Tommy: There's a line in Drake's song, Steph Curry with the shots, boy.

Josh: And you know, Steph Curry, he's a big Golden State Warriors player. Yep. I actually think that I saw him. I went in San Francisco or Oakland more specifically back in 2012.

James: Yeah.

Josh: Went to a game. I'm pretty sure he was playing. I didn't realise it at the time.

Tommy: Yep.

James: He's a bit of a legend.

Josh: Sort of annoying. I think I spent— That's probably why I spent so much on the tickets, maybe. I feel like he wasn't that big then. But anyway, so you're— So, Davidson, is that what you said?

James: Yep. So, Davidson College.

Josh: And so, you're assistant coach, did you say, to a women's college team?

James: Yep.

Josh: What is the— What's women's college sport like in the US?

James: Yeah, well, so, there's a setup in the US or it's kind of— rolls through everything that goes on called Title IX. Um, and Title IX essentially refers to, um, the kind of government-driven, um, anti-discrimination setups. So for every scholarship that goes into men's sport, there has to be an equivalent that goes into women's sport. So that means some of that money is kind of distributed through the entire athletic department. So From a number of people perspective that come to games and that kind of thing, it's definitely not as, not as large. Um, we're kind of a smaller school, um, as well, one of the small schools in Division I sports. Um, so we're talking only about 2,000, um, students at our college. Um, but our men's gym holds about— or our gym holds about 4,500-5,000 people. So You're thinking that's more than kind of most NBL arenas in Australia are getting. Yeah. Um, and then we had a couple of games this year where we're up around the kind of 1,500 mark for our women's games. Um, we'll play in some gyms that hold, once again, hold 10,000 people, 15,000 people. Um, but the, the kind of scale of things, supportership just isn't quite at the level as the men's stuff.

Josh: What is it like? Is it a different dynamic? You've coached men's basketball within Australia.

James: Jeff, you—

Josh: I guess you did like your juniors and stuff like that.

James: Yeah.

Josh: Um, what is the— what's the dynamic? What's the difference between coaching women's basketball and men's basketball?

James: So I think one of the, the biggest things that stands out from the perspective of the college level in the US is that the, the men's stuff, there's a lot of trouble because everyone, everyone there, there's just a lot of ego behind it. Everyone there thinks they're going to the NBA. So you've got 300 and 340-odd colleges in the US that are in Division I basketball. Yeah, okay, 340. That, like, it's crazy when you think about that. They got somewhere around 13, 15 people on a roster.

Tommy: Have you seen the LeBron James doco on Netflix?

James: Yep.

Tommy: And he was playing college.

James: So LeBron didn't go to college, LeBron played high school.

Tommy: Yeah. Oh, is that high school? High school basketball. NBA.

James: Yep.

Tommy: So that wasn't even college.

James: Yep.

Tommy: So there's another league.

James: Yeah, there's another level below that. So that's, that's the high school stuff. Um, since, since LeBron, um, kind of, there's actually been rules that you can't do that anymore. You can't go from high school to the NBA. Um, that will probably change pretty shortly back to being able to do that because there's been some, some kind of issues that have come out of it. But I think to kind of touch on your question, Josh, like the, the biggest difference is that the, like, women's college athlete has a bit more perspective over kind of what they're there for, um, and it's a bit more of this holistic experience in terms of combining the fact that they are getting the scholarship to study at a university but also to, like, achieve what they want to from the basketball sense. So when things don't go their way, or it's just a little bit easier for them to rationalise the process behind what they're doing.

Josh: What do you think that can be done to increase the popularity or viewership of women's sport?

James: So, like, I think it's in some ways it's, it's pretty good. Um, there's definitely debates in the US right now about some of these kind of the ESPNs of the world, um, kind of being a bit more proactive with, um, kind of developing on some of the storylines of things that go on, but I think that it's, it's really the onus is on the programmes to get out and engage with the community around them. Um, women's basketball definitely, or women's sports are definitely kind of this more community-driven setup and, um, and kind of leverage from that idea. It's accessible, um, it is, it's obviously cheaper than the men's stuff to get to, um There's certain components of that. Um, the older folk really love the women's stuff. We have a lot of kind of older adult fans. Um, it's just there's something about it, the connection that they have with, with the student athletes. It's a bit different.

Tommy: It's actually why Bill was in town.

James: It was for a women's basketball game. College games.

Tommy: Well, I know that the angle of your question is around women playing sport. Like, I get it.

Josh: It's like Well, it seems like a hot topic given the WAFL and, you know, the Women's Football League and things like that.

Tommy: Like, if I was to not dig too deep, but it's like a men's game of football is a lot harder and faster. A men's match in tennis is harder unless Serena Williams is playing, and she's fucking important.

Josh: What do you think of that change? Because I know that, TJ, you've got like—

Tommy: I haven't watched much basketball. I've got some girlfriends who play One's just gone over to play WNBL, Liz Cambage. She's impressive, super tall and fucking unbelievable. Yeah, but I don't know, is there much difference? Like watching a Michael Jordan fucking dunking from half— from half court, from, uh, the— what, near the free throw— free throw—

Josh: free throw— free throw line. Yeah, or Shaq.

Tommy: Like, the difference in that Yeah, it's—

Josh: so you're talking about the entertainment value. I think that that's, uh, something is spoken about. James, is that an area that you play in at all, or that you think about, or that's in the scene as something that people— or is everyone sort of heads down in it? And is this sort of a public issue that, that doesn't actually extend?

James: Yeah, like, I think in some ways, um, people in women's basketball kind of know what it is for what it is. So they understand that, like, from the entertainment value, you might say, ah, like, the men's stuff is more entertaining, but that's only if you're appreciating the, the high-flying dunking component of the above-the-rim style of men's basketball.

Josh: Yeah.

James: Um, so I think that's where, like I mentioned before, kind of older adults liking the women's game more, because for a basketball purist, for appreciating the the passing, the shooting, those elements of the game, they're all there in the women's basketball stuff and even more heightened. Yeah, because of the lack of the other stuff. I think that there's some problems here with the way that they've kind of rolled out the women's AFL setup, that the, the calibre of the, the athlete just isn't, isn't there yet from the, the front of like this professional level that they have going on, so that the quality of the product doesn't kind of match what the equivalent of women's basketball is to men's basketball.

Tommy: Um, I mean, basketball is such a skilful game, like all the handling that—

Josh: it's— that's why I was talking about basketball.

Tommy: That's where, you know, all the handling, that dribbling.

Josh: Yeah, you can't travel, you can't travel.

Tommy: Yes, but like all that groundwork is the speed. There's girls who are very fast and there's men who are, you know, the same. So I get it, but I mean, there's other polarising sports. Boxing, you know, it's a game, like, there is skill in it as well. I'm just thinking out loud here. I was just thinking about, um, Mayweather.

James: Yeah.

Tommy: And, um, you know, he's a smallish dude but super skillful. So maybe I just haven't seen enough of it. I don't know.

James: There—

Tommy: I think there's definitely some sports that are more entertaining on, on multiple levels when it's just men.. But then there's definitely room. I think it's like the women getting paid as much as men in sport, in basketball. It's like, it just doesn't make sense in WNBL. They just don't bring enough money, so they can't pay them as much.

Josh: What do you think, like, James, is the— what is the path of a, you know, you're talking about them being a bit more grounded. What is the path of a female college basketball player?

James: Yeah. So, from a— From a lot of fronts, the majority athletes that are going through the college system, that's kind of the pinnacle of their basketball career, is that 4-year period that they're on a campus.

Josh: Are they, most of them on scholarship? If you're in that team, are you basically guaranteed a scholarship?

James: Yeah, so everyone at our level are essentially on scholarship, full scholarship.

Tommy: What does that mean, just free?

James: That means free tuition, free rooms and board, so everything's basically paid for for them.

Josh: What do they study? What do they tend to study?

James: So Davidson's a really high academic institution. So we're considered one of the kind of top schools in America. So we have players that want to be neurosurgeons. We have players that want to be astronauts. We have players that kind of run the gamut. One that wants to kind of do the kind of Pixar type thing of like animation. And then you go down different levels that there's kind of more the business folk and everything. So they are studying everything. But I think from the exposure point of view, just because of the way that the college sports is embedded, um, into a college environment, um, the potential for the crowds and the supportership of, um, of women's basketball is potentially highest at the college level.

Josh: Yeah.

James: So for some people, that'll be kind of the end of the college careers. Um, there is the potential for the select few to do the WNBA thing for Australians that go across. They will come back and kind of do the WNBL thing, and that league is, is doing pretty well now. It's kind of booming at a level, but there's only 8 teams, so there's, there's not that many jobs floating around, and it's still not necessarily full-time for these, these girls either. So yeah, so really the path I think is, is kind of in a lot of ways that the college basketball is a pinnacle of that sport.

Josh: And does— and because of that, do you see that, uh, a lot of the players that you're coaching, they do have that extra career path more so than, say, the men's basketballers?

James: Yeah, definitely. Yeah, yeah, like, that's definitely the case. We, uh, we actually don't have summer school at Davidson. So a lot of schools will have summer school, they'll kind of bring their kids in, um, kind of work them out over the summer, do different stuff, get them in class. We don't have that now. Kids will all go do internships. So we have kids floating about doing internships kind of the next 3 months.

Josh: So you're saying more industry-focused?

James: Yeah, like the goal is for them to kind of understand what they're going to do afterwards. And it doesn't necessarily compromise what they're doing on the basketball court at that point in time.

Josh: But do you think the college system in the US is a bit fucked? The reason I say it is I feel like there's a lot of money involved.

James: Yep.

Josh: And, you know, you go to a university, it's got beautiful green grass and all this sort of thing. And on the other hand, there's a huge amount of student debt in the US, which might make sense if you're going to make a quarter of a mil a year as a, you know, in finance or as a lawyer.. But maybe if you're a creative or you're doing in a different field—

Tommy: It's the case to be said, you know, in Australia too. Fucking hex, you can't get out of the debt. Why can't you go bankrupt and remove the debt? And it's the same with these college kids.

James: Yeah.

Tommy: But you're saying, is it like—

Josh: Well, I feel like there's a different— No, it feels like it's an extra level. Like say the sporting, all of this sport and these different elements play into the prestige. Which plays into, okay, I want to go here, which funds all of this sort of thing. So, it's this sort of, it's big, it's a business in itself.

James: It's a—

Josh: College is an industry, would you say?

James: Yeah. Well, like to touch on the money side of things, like none of the like student money that's being paid for tuition and all that kind of stuff is going to athletics. So, athletics is in a lot of ways a kind of cost-neutral venture for the university in terms of the money that's coming in from TV revenue and all that kind of stuff is what, what fills into, to kind of how that works, um, at the majority of these kind of Division I programs. Um, but as you said, like, the, the university structure is very competitive, and one school versus the others trying to attract the best students they can. And, um, in a lot of ways, it's, it's their marketing ploy of getting their, their brand out there and what the what the university is about.

Tommy: And they're private businesses, aren't they, essentially? It's like a private school. Like, Wesley's a private—

James: Yeah, like, yeah, like, even this— even the state school system, um, like, that is a way that they kind of drive the people to apply. Like, it's not like you're just going to apply to a school because you're going to apply to a school. Like, you get to choose where you go.

Tommy: Yeah.

James: Um, and it's not as selective necessarily from the institution perspective as the, like, Australian higher education model. But from the perspective of, like, a lot of the higher education issues in the US are driven by how poor the high schooling is.

Josh: Yeah.

James: Um, and how the schooling structure underneath that is. And so there's a lot of catch-up that goes on during the undergraduate years. And so these, these students are kind of leaving their undergraduate with these high, like, loans, but also with kind of not necessarily the skill set that they should have as a 22-year-old.

Tommy: One last question. Um, I actually want to do a couple of rapid 5 questions.

Josh: Yeah, I've got heaps of— yeah, I also— I've got another question in regards to recruitment.

Tommy: So what I was taking it way away from— yeah, most of our listeners want to know about you too.

Josh: We definitely want to do that. I want to find out just very—

Tommy: how much longer do you have?

Josh: He's got some time.

Tommy: He said another hour, so we'll go another hour.

Josh: No, the, um, uh, so recruitment— you, you're in Australia now. Are you, are you doing recruitment at the moment? Or no, not—

James: I wouldn't say it's like active recruitment. I think in some ways it's, um, just dealing with our networks over here that when there are like potential athletes that, that could be candidates for Davidson, and we have pretty high academic standards, so that, that rules out a lot of people.

Tommy: Fuck, that sounds like he's just trying to get a tax write-off on this trip.

Josh: Yeah, well, we do some business.

Tommy: Anyone asks, you're working.

James: Well, there's a lot of rules in the NCAA, so So the NCAA has a lot of rules regarding when you can recruit, how you can recruit, how you go about it.

Josh: So what does that even mean? So for the, for the average punter, who the fuck are you recruiting?

James: So in reality, we're talking to 15, 16-year-old girls, um, to kind of come across in about 2 years' time.

Josh: So that's kind of the recruiting process, uh, domestic, but you're going to rep basketball.

James: Yeah, so like we're talking, um Really, it's the, the elite of the elite. So, um, probably in a Davidson mold. Um, unless you're one of the top 20 players in Australia right now, you're probably not quite good enough to necessarily be that level.

Tommy: Um, I should put you in touch with a friend of mine, Durham.

James: Yeah, yeah, I know Durham. Yeah, yeah, I know Durham.

Josh: Yeah, yeah.

Tommy: Well, that's— yeah, so that's how I know Liz Cambidge and a bunch of the boomers and stuff, because I used to work at a gym called Body World and he used to work out of there. And so, but he like pure strength and conditioning and all for basketball.

James: Yeah, we actually have an Australian coming across in our kind of current recruiting class. She'll get on campus in August. She's a Melbourne girl. She actually works out with Durham right now.

Tommy: Sweet. Have you been to his space?

James: I haven't yet.

Tommy: Oh, because you haven't been back.

James: Yeah, so hopefully we'll get down there probably late next week.

Tommy: Tell him that I say hi.

James: We'll do.

Tommy: He's a really nice guy.

Josh: And, and so do people make— do you make money as a college, like, other than having everything covered? They're making coin. Can they sign deals?

James: So they can't sign any deals, they can't do any of that. They do get— these days they get what's called kind of cost of attendance, which is a little bit money on top just to kind of pay for phone bills and some clothes and a little bit of food outside. They obviously get all their food paid for. Yeah, while they're with us, and get a whole bunch of gear and all that kind of thing. But, um, it's definitely not a like lucrative scenario. They're not allowed to make that money. It's against the rules.

Tommy: One last basketball question. Yeah, can white men jump?

James: Yeah, absolutely.

Tommy: Yeah, fuck yeah.

James: So, um, crazy, craziest thing, uh, craziest thing was, uh, this year's, um, kind of national championship game in the, the men's college basketball. The best player was a white redhead, um, who was, uh, dunking and blocking and doing some crazy stuff.

Josh: So yeah, um, yep, it gives me hope.

James: Yeah, so Josh had his basketball career.

Josh: Um, James, James coached me.

James: I did coach him for a little bit. Um, that's definitely not part of my pathway to college, uh, professionally. It's not talked about as a professional job. But, um, Josh's kind of basketball career was highlighted by hitting a couple of threes in a game.

Josh: It was a couple is two. I did 4 threes in one game.

James: Well He had 4 threes in the game and gave the whole crowd a high five on the way down.

Tommy: Fuck yeah, and he made a video and showed everyone at Christmas.

James: I should have.

Josh: What's—

Tommy: I'm trying to gauge the relationship between you two because my older elder brother, he was 8 years above me, and you know, we were— he was— by the time I was a little fucking shit, he was annoyed with me, but now we're best mates as we've got older. What, like, what's— what was the relationship like for you two growing up? And I haven't— I don't know if I'm hitting on a sword, thumb in ear, I don't know, but that's the best.

Josh: Lots of punch-ons. No, I think that James— how would I get your take on it? What do you think?

James: Well, I think you just gotta like try to put yourself in the shoes of a teenager, um, with a camera in your face 24/7. Solid.

Tommy: That's my man, that's my boy.

Josh: It was definitely— I think that James was on an athletic pathway and I was on a media creation pathway. I think that that was— I think that I was always quite antagonising in the sense of I knew, like, he would— Mum would say that he would screech a lot. He would sort of— Do you remember? You stop screeching.

James: That was sort of—

Tommy: Who was screeching?

Josh: James would scream.

Tommy: What does screeching mean?

James: Like screaming?

Josh: Just yelling at you? Yeah, he would screech at me.

Tommy: I, I look at Josh, right, and I hear all this stuff and I'm sure you've heard on the podcast, and I feel like knowing Josh as an adult, I almost look at this guy, I'm like, who the fuck were you? Because that's not you now. Like, I feel like you're very refined now, but still with all your quirks and your awesomeness.

Josh: But sometimes weird still.

Tommy: Yeah, of course. But that makes you— was he as weird as he's made out on this podcast?

James: Yeah, like, Josh is very aware of what he was, and I think, yeah. What do you think? How do you describe if someone says, oh, you got brothers and they start digging.

Josh: How do you describe, uh, your brother Josh?

James: So like, weird unit comes to mind.

Tommy: Yeah, you just learn it.

Josh: Um, creative.

James: Yeah, like really it was, it was— Josh was all centred around having the camera in his hand.

Josh: That's true. Um, it's pretty crazy that we've been And do you see this, I guess, within the college space too? Like, people who just find what they love young— like, you, you were lucky and you found basketball at how old? Like, when did you start?

James: Well, I kind of came in and out of it a little bit. Yeah, like, I started playing, I think, when I was 4 years old, um, when I first started playing basketball. And then probably through early teenage years I didn't play as much. And then when I, when I was 16, I kind of reinvested some time and energy into it. And then that was a big kind of part of my life from that point. And then in some ways, when I got to the US, it kind of did die down for a little bit, and I invested a little more time into the academic space. And, um, kind of this last year has been kind of resetting it a little bit and in this full-time basketball mode.

Josh: The one fight that James and I always have, and we can bring it up on the podcast, we haven't spoken about it, this, uh, do you know what it's going to be?

James: Yeah, it's about the Fitbit.

Tommy: What about it?

Josh: So, um, James had— James and I had a, uh a big argument 2 years ago now about—

Tommy: Last time you spoke.

Josh: Exactly, about the Fitbit and where it was going. James, what did you— I want to get your, without putting words into your mouth, what was your side of the argument of Fitbit?

James: Well, my side of the argument was that Fitbit as a company got into the activity monitoring space at a time where they basically dominated the market And so that device became known by a lot of the community, and that's not necessarily the tech people. Yeah, like the tech people are going to call what it is, but the majority of people will refer to an activity monitor regardless of its brand as a Fitbit. And so I felt that because of that—

Tommy: Dyson.

James: Yeah, because of that, it's, it's your, it's your Kleenex, like it's, it's all those things. And, um Because of that, I felt like that was a business that had a strong lead, had a strong— and when I say I had a stronghold, wasn't necessarily going to be the dominant, like, force in the marketplace, but we're never going to go away. And Josh felt like they, uh, could go away.

Josh: Yeah, very soon.

James: Yeah, they were on the verge because the Apple Watch.

Josh: Yeah, no, so it wasn't so much the Apple Watch, it was more I didn't feel like they had enough of technological chops to— I felt that the inner— the size that they were at, and this happens a lot with bigger companies, you get, uh, you get really big on the technology that you have. And the problem with that is that if you're an accelerometer type of business and you build up a business doing that— for instance, car industry is probably a great example— the car industry has struggled with the electric vehicle market, right? You've got Tesla that's come in and it's because that the electric car market might be a very different one or could be approached in a very different way to traditional cars. So, if you're used to building a fucking motor vehicle that runs off petrol, it's a different, potentially different game. So, my argument was that the—

Tommy: They're done.

Josh: They're fucked, yeah. The Fitbit accelerometer, like that technology was going to be, whilst it might be the thing that we use in a number of things, that there was going to be enough devices that were going to be smart enough that we're going to be able to do that. And I think Apple would be really well positioned to be able to—

Tommy: So, that's just 2 years ago.

Josh: It was 2 years ago.

James: 3.

Josh: 3 years ago, I think. 3 years ago.

Tommy: He hasn't been here for 3 years. I'm joining dots together. It was the argument.

Josh: So what do you think, James? And now that you've had—

Tommy: like, hang on, wait, the— because the argument seems fucking useless. I mean, my brother was saying who stole the weed out of his drawer, and it was me, or the porno. And so that— I mean, you see the argument there. This is just like, what— were you pissed off?

Josh: Well, I think— I think it's the intellectualization. I think that James and I have always had debates on, uh, Whenever our— yeah, and if we're trying to intellectualise something, I think that we push back on that because I think we both have respect for research and going to things. And James is an exercise scientist.

Tommy: Okay, so it's in a field. Were you pissed off at each other? Were you pissed off?

Josh: Well, James— yeah, I wouldn't say I was pissed out.

James: Like, Josh just wouldn't, like, let it go. Let it go.

Josh: And we still—

James: and, and he still clearly can't let it go. Because he just brought it up again.

Josh: Yeah, so I know, but the Fitbit is a fun, a funny story. But interestingly, um, how's this prick who made money off Fitbits as well? Uh, yeah, I did make money off it.

Tommy: You made cash money off them?

Josh: Yeah, when I sold them early days. But no, a couple of interesting things. Fitbit stock, we would talk about, and we were looking at your wedding and stuff, it's on a decline in a big way.

James: But that, like, we also spoke about that not being a representation of how companies go.

Josh: I think so. It's, it hasn't actually been unresolved.

James: He's just pulled out.

Josh: That's great, that's great. But do you know something interesting that, to give you an idea of why I think Apple might be onto something, or why I think that it won't be Fitbit, Apple are doing things like trying to work out how to measure your glucose through light. So similarly to heartbeat and stuff like that. So rather than, so if you're a diabetic, you might have to have a fucking like a little prick in you to be able to measure your—

Tommy: You've had a few little pricks in you, haven't you?

James: Just quickly.

Tommy: Um, if I say the word squeegee, yeah, does any storey come to mind?

James: Well, I heard the episode. Okay, that's how I was getting to it.

Tommy: I wasn't going to actually tell him if he didn't know.

Josh: I'd say do a bit of research.

James: Yeah.

Tommy: Do you remember Josh dressing up like in black camo, fucking securing the perimeter of your house?

James: That part I don't remember.

Tommy: Yeah, the bike. The bike.

James: Oh, the bike. Stolen bike. Yeah, absolutely. That was, uh, that was a hoot.

Tommy: Is it as good as—

James: Yeah, it was.

Josh: What's your storeys of the bike?

James: Well, I just definitely remember like people stealing the bike deliberately to hear the— The stolen bike. Yeah, the stolen bike sound. It was fantastic. It was so loud. It was, yeah, it was really good.

Josh: I would like to buy one now. And yeah, so finally coming back to Australia after so long, what's the biggest change? What are you noticing? Putting a different lens on things. What's Australia like?

James: Well, I've only been here a day, so I haven't seen too much. I think, uh, I think it's interesting. There's obviously like population shifts and changes in, in how it's all looking, and kind of, I think there's elements of it being challenging from a financial point of view for, for young people growing up here and, and how they want to approach it. Um, that part really stands out. I think the food scene really stands out and how that kind of is formulated into someone's lifestyle. Um, but yeah, like, there's a lot of things you go— there's a lot of things different, but there's a lot of things that are just very much the same. And, um, well, welcome home. Well, thank you.

Tommy: Welcome home.

Josh: It's The Daily Talk Show, everyone. Thanks, James Jansen, for being on. Uh, feel free to send us an email, hi@thedailytalkshow.com, if you, uh, have any questions. We should get James on in like 100 episodes' time. Yeah, maybe we could do a, do one from the US.

Tommy: 160. Yeah, 160.

Josh: And Tommy and I are talking about a tour. Yeah, we want to do it.

Tommy: Can we stay at your joint?

James: Absolutely. Yeah, we've got spare bedrooms.

Josh: So this is the great thing, you know, $200K house, you get fucking 5 bedrooms.

James: Unbelievable.

Tommy: Any feedback on the podcast?

James: Um, I listen to occasionally. I have an hour commute, so it'll, uh, it's in the rotation a little bit.

Tommy: Yeah, nice.

James: I prefer the shorter ones. Okay, lovely.

Josh: Well, this one's gone for 45 minutes, so it's probably on the nice end.

Tommy: You're the brother I never knew existed.

Josh: Well, you did know about it.

Tommy: No, but as in like you weren't real because I'd never met you.

James: I'd met Jake. I appreciate how Josh talks about me all the time. That's—

Josh: do I, do I give it?

Tommy: Never. Daily talk show.

Josh: We'll see you in 3 years.