Steroids

Tommy: It's the TDS— T— mate, I fucked that right up.

Josh: Stick to the intro. It's the Daily Talk Show, everyone, episode 67.

Tommy: Well, Josh turned on the— pressed the record button, pointed at me, so I panicked and fucked up the abbreviation.

Josh: Act cool. Yeah, just like me.

Tommy: So I got my hat backwards. I'm acting cool, baby.

Josh: I'm not wearing a hat.

Tommy: Yeah, it looks good.

Josh: I've retired the hat. Really? Yeah.

Tommy: No more hats because I, I feel like because you watched Queer Eye and you fucking got a bit of advice again.

Josh: Before I tell you why, uh, there is a— we got a review, and anytime I get a— we get a review through iTunes or the podcast app, I like to celebrate it, especially given that it's 5 stars. Um, it's by, uh, Russ_Tech. Thanks, Russ_Tech. And he says, loving the podcast, best fucking podcast I've listened to talking about Absolute shit. And Russ, hopefully we can keep that going with this storey about why I no longer am wearing my hats.

Tommy: Yeah, it's riveting. Welcome back, Russ. We're talking about absolute shit.

Josh: So we're following through our official tagline now. But no, I was a hat guy for maybe the last 6 years. Since about—

Tommy: Do you really put yourself into the box? Like you call yourself a hat guy?

Josh: Yes.

Tommy: Can you just be a guy that wears hats every now and then? And you then one day choose not to wear a hat, or it's cold and you want to fucking warm your head.

Josh: Literally the early days, uh, when I was doing Josh Speaking and I interviewed Hamish Blake before we sort of really connected and became mates, and he, uh, I asked him one of the questions— this is a career podcast— I asked him, where do you get your hats? And like, how much thought do you give to your hats?

Tommy: You had one of Australia's biggest comedians on your show and you ask him about hats.

Josh: And to be, uh, I was surprised because he didn't really have an answer. He's like, man, I don't really think—

Tommy: I think the fascinating thing about you, uh, you is you're very thought out, and that's in the nicest way possible. It is you.

Josh: Thanks.

Tommy: Like, you're very calculated, but not— but not—

Josh: it sounds like a murderer.

Tommy: Yeah, yeah. But not over the top in terms— it doesn't make you a massive weirdo. Still a bit of a weirdo.

Josh: Am I a tryhard?

Tommy: You're on the edge. But I think, like, I look at stuff you've done early life, and I hope you think the same about me, and I go, who the fuck was that guy? Because I feel like you found your feet as a who you are and in your own shoes.

Josh: Yeah, I think that I've been weird for a long period of time. Yeah, but I've just, yeah, refined a little bit. But so, no hats.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: And there's a couple of reasons. One, this is going a bit medical. I get like a little bit of fucking like, it's like acne. I did some Googling. I think it's called folliculitis, which sounds great.

Tommy: For all our doctors out there, you can advise on that.

Josh: Yeah, but I went on antibiotics maybe like 3 years ago for it because I shaved my head and it was so fucking obvious.

Tommy: Really?

Josh: And, um, I still fucking have it. And I'm trying, like, I, uh, the other day I, um, I was reading online how to get rid of it.

Tommy: How do you get rid of it?

Josh: Well, so there was a couple of suggestions. One was apple cider vinegar.

Tommy: Oh, fuck off.

Josh: On the head. And they said, people were saying that burns a bit, but it works.

Tommy: It's vinegar to a sensitive part of your body.

Josh: And so the other suggestion was coconut oil, which seemed like it would made a little bit more sense for whatever reason, but I think I used too much. I used like, I got a cup of it, I put a cup and tipped it on my head.

Tommy: Mate.

Josh: And my hair was—

Tommy: Is it on one area?

Josh: Well, yeah, it's on the back of my head. So, I sort of put on the back of my head and then sort of exfoliated it in, but then my hair was so sleek. It was like a gel, like put so much gel in my hair and then I combed it and it made it worse. And then it looked—

Tommy: Oh, dude.

Josh: It's sort of like defined. My— I don't know. Do you think I'm going bald?

Tommy: It's thin.

Josh: It's thin on the top bit. My dad's got the classic— Is he bald?

Tommy: Is your dad bald?

Josh: Yeah, he's got the, you know, like the old school. He doesn't really have— He used to, like when I was growing up, it was like this. He would have the side bit. It's like the George Costanza.

Tommy: Well, you're already like 27.

Josh: Yeah. So, you'd think it would have gone sort of—

Tommy: I don't know, maybe.

Josh: And do I care that— I think the only reason I'd care is because of the little fucking pimply things. So, I'm trying—

Tommy: You can't see them, so fucking drop it.

Josh: Yeah, so, but that's one of the reasons why—

Tommy: You've quit, you've retired the hat.

Josh: Because I feel like it's not giving it an opportunity to breathe.

Tommy: Am I a hat guy?

Josh: No.

Tommy: I wear hats quite a bit.

Josh: A little bit, but I was a full-on, like, snapback. I had a custom one that I got made.

Tommy: Snapbacks are very— they are the hat people. The hat people wear those.

Josh: Yeah, so, but I can't—

Tommy: they did look shit house on me. Must be the shape of my head.

Josh: You're more of a— Tommy's wearing sort of a, a trucker style mesh hat.

Tommy: Yeah, backwards.

Josh: What does it say on it?

Tommy: Uh, it's like Ex Machina, the Deuce. It's a motorcycle brand, Ex Machina, Ex Machina or something, I don't know.

Josh: But how much thought Do you give to your look?

Tommy: Not as much as I used to. You, although you did fucking say that my hair had extended from my head all the way down my neck and onto my back, so it was now one piece.

Josh: Well, it's very, yeah.

Tommy: You trolled me in front of your missus and my wife.

Josh: You're quite hirsute is the word, which means hairy.

Tommy: And then look at me now.

Josh: Fuck off, go. So I'm just, Tommy's just showing, he's just lifting his shirt up.

Tommy: I trimmed it, I trimmed my back. Oh, well, Amy did it.

Josh: After I made that comment.

Tommy: Yeah, because I was—

Josh: the words have power, guys. Words have power.

Tommy: Well, self— I'm not self-conscious, but I, you know, it's been something. If it would be like if I go, hey dude, what's on the back of your neck? And you fucking had been thinking about it. Yeah, like I've been thinking about getting the hair off, hair off my back, and I kept on thinking, and that was the tipping point. Is there a business model in this? A place where you can walk in as a man and just fucking pay 10 bucks and have your back just fucking shaved off and walk out. Takes a few minutes.

Josh: Well, I had a Sri Lankan lady doing my hair the other day.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: And she was so polite. She's like, she's just like, was doing my, like, my neck and then was going like lower and lower, like getting— she's probably halfway down my back. She's just, uh, she's just like, oh yeah, it's still part of the head.

Tommy: There is, and I don't know if you've seen him, this is a bit away from what we're talking. Um, he's also actually a man who has little body hair because he's a big muscly motherfucker and he goes to the gym and I'm sure he just gets it all off. Yeah, gets all his hair off. Well, that's what I can see anyway. Um, he's a parking inspector in the area where I have my office, Collingwood, Melbourne. Yeah, he's the musliest dude you've ever seen.

Josh: I feel like— have you seen him? You've— we've seen him at Nando's.

Tommy: Exactly. And I made a comment to him. Yeah, I said— what did I say? No one's gonna fuck with you, are they? You were just the one ticket inspector no one's fucking with.

Josh: Yeah, you were really sucking up his ass.

Tommy: He loved it. Anyway, I've met— I saw him like an hour ago and we ended up having a great chat. Turns out he's got nearly 10K followers on Insta. He's a bodybuilder. Like a professional bodybuilder.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: And, um, he's— we've got mutual friends. He knows because I used to work in gyms and stuff. And so he's got a whole bunch of mates. His name's Atif, and he's like an IFBB pro. So he's, he's earned a pro card in bodybuilding.

Josh: What's a pro card mean?

Tommy: So you, um, you go in like these pre-competitions that give you like the pro card. It's like the access to being able to compete on a national level, like for legit competition, so you at a pro level, so you're like elite level of bodybuilding. And so I found him, but dude, you see him, he's like the friendliest, loveliest guy. That's him there.

Josh: Wow, fuck, yeah, I remember him.

Tommy: But I've always been fascinated about ticking inspectors and like what people would do to them. What, and no one's fucking doing anything to that one. But I'd love to know if people have wanted to, you know, test his fucking strength because he is a big guy.

Josh: Is he like full-time? Did you ask him about his work?

Tommy: Well, he works for— he doesn't make much money, uh, but he, he bodybuilds on the side and works obviously as a parking inspector.

Josh: And is there money in bodybuilding or no?

Tommy: There is at the very top. It's like you end up getting sponsors Who then pay for everything. So food, because the cost of bodybuilding is ridiculous, and it's majority food and protein, drugs.

Josh: Really? So they're all on drugs?

Tommy: 100%. All the big bodybuilders, yeah, all on steroids. Like Arnold Schwarzenegger, he was on steroids and he was at the pro level.

Josh: Have you ever done steroids?

Tommy: Yes.

Josh: Okay, what does it, what does it, what does it What did it do to you?

Tommy: It's, um, the thing with steroids is fucking stupid, first of all.

Josh: Why is it stupid?

Tommy: Well, for me, it's like, it's totally personal. I mean, it's a silly thing to do if you don't really have—

Josh: If you're not a fucking athlete, like if you've got no— you're not gaining anything through that.

Tommy: Yeah, other than muscles.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: And it's a personal choice. I was like 19, which is probably dumb because I was young, my body hadn't fully developed. And you had to put it in your bum. Yeah, it's like an injection type of thing. And so right now it sounds weird, and it does sound weird to me now because I'm not around it. I was around gyms every fucking day, 10 hours a day, dudes who were doing it. Yeah, it just became so—

Josh: it's a community thing, right? Yeah, like once you, once you're around that space, all of a sudden it normalizes. And I get worried sometimes when I think about the things that have normalised around me just naturally. As you become an adult, you just become sort of immune to things, or you start— like, things don't shock you as much. I remember, like, if anyone did any drugs when I was, um, like, the idea of someone getting high or doing dope would— like, would I be like— I'd consider them a bit of a junkie, whereas like— no, I get it, naturally As I get older and meet more people and I'm around different spaces, especially being in a creative industry, a lot of people do pot.

Tommy: Yeah, 100%. And I used to do a lot of that too, and I feel like okay talking about that. I haven't done it for 10 years. Um, but the, the steroid thing is interesting because I've thought about whether I even talk about on this or not if it comes up, and that's why I paused for a moment. But then I was like, it was another life for me, it feels like.

Josh: And what was the experience like? So do you remember distinctly the decision to give it a go?

Tommy: Yeah, no, I don't. It definitely isn't some defining moment where I'm like, yep, I'm starting. But it just— I ended up just making the decision. I can't remember it being a real prominent moment, but then Next minute you're jabbing your ass with steroid. And so there's no— so the difference between taking a steroid and something like ecstasy is like ecstasy gives you instant, or within the half an hour of taking it, gives you— you turn, you change, you're fucking, you know, it could, it could fuck you up and you're just like off your face and totally noticeable. Steroids aren't like that. You take it and it's like it just work.

Josh: So it feels like there's more— like, if to me from an outside perspective, this seems like there's more of a— it's an enhancer, which I guess like speed and all these things are too. But it is for— I could see the appeal for people from a self-development point of view. It's, I guess, the same way with psychedelics, and it seems like a big topic.

Tommy: I'll tell you what it does. It increased my motivation in turn because you're doing something and you're thinking, oh, I'm going to get all these results, which you do if you are training. So there is that placebo effect of mentally thinking, fuck, I can, I'm going to go hard because I'm doing this. But then the reality of if you are training and eating right, the results— I put on like 10 kilos of muscle. Well, there would have been fluid and stuff as well. But my body completely changed. Like, my chest grew. I like— I went from not really having a chest. Like, have I got to define like a prominent chest? Yeah, yeah. It's like I didn't have that shape before I started. And so I was around people, we were training 5 days a week, eating, you know, 6, 7 meals a day. And yeah, it becomes a bit obsessive though. That's what I don't like about it. And I've spoken to friends who are drug addicts that then are like, oh, I'm just going to take— I'm just going to do a course of steroids. It's like, dude, what it does to your mental state as far as like you hone in on these things, that motivation, you just become like really fucking— for me, and I think for someone who would be an addict, it's like it's, it's another form of that but just in a different way and maybe a healthier way, right? Because the, the side effects that people experience Like, there has been— I've got mates who have been on steroids for 25 years. Yeah, literally every year they'd probably take a few courses of steroids. That's not to say that it's okay to do it, but these people, if they were taking ecstasy once a week for 25 years, they'd be fucked.

Josh: Yeah, so the—

Tommy: there— so it's a weird thing because it's in this space of health and like, you know, your body and training every day and eating well. But then you're doing this thing that—

Josh: Is it synthetic?

Tommy: Ah, there's all different types.

Josh: But is it—

Tommy: what I wonder is synthetic just means it's like it—

Josh: so testosterone, so you can get testosterone is natural, or I guess you could have a synthetic. I don't know anything about any of this.

Tommy: Yeah, so there's like ones that—

Josh: is it naturally— is it increasing something that's already naturally produced?

Tommy: Yes. So if you were taking testosterone, yeah, you're putting more of what your body naturally produces into your system.

Josh: And so there's an argument then that some people naturally have high testosterone.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: And if you were to try and create a reason for taking it or justifying it, it would be, I have low testosterone, I want to be playing in this sort of big boys game, or whatever you want to—

Tommy: It's one way to do it. You can go to the doctor and do a test to see what your testosterone levels are. And there's an average for men, and women have low levels of testosterone in their body. And so you can, um, you can get it prescribed to you through a doctor if they see that you don't have high levels of testosterone.

Josh: So what's the difference between that and— what's the, what's the one that they— I saw, um, what's that documentary? Bigger, Smarter, Stronger. Stronger. I can something something. And wait, no, it's not amphetamines. What's the— what is steroids? Steroids are anabolic steroids. So there's different types of steroids. Do you know about this shit?

Tommy: Yeah, I don't have enough knowledge. I learned a lot about it there. I was doing research, looking online, looking for what people's side effects were, because preventative asthma medicine is a steroid. Yeah, but it's a completely different—

Josh: Yeah, so that's That's a normal—

Tommy: that's not anabolic, but it definitely made you— it made me feel on edge. It like— think about it, can make you horny. Like, these are things, think about it. It's like your testicles produce testosterone.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: And you're having this heightened level of testosterone within your body.

Josh: So roid rage is real, you think?

Tommy: If you were an angry person, you take steroids, fuck me. Look out.

Josh: Because you're essentially— it's very animalistic almost, isn't it? It's like this primal, like, I remember fucking like a pit bull.

Tommy: I remember feeling on edge once in the car and I just felt like, you know, it's not anxious, but it was like gritting your teeth type of deal. Yeah, that feeling. It's like you've got too much energy and you fucking need to get it out. Yeah, so you want to climb a few trees.

Josh: So you definitely need to be going to the gym. When you take steroids. What do you reckon would happen if I just started taking steroids and didn't change any of my habits?

Tommy: You would blow out. You just fill up with so much water.

Josh: Oh really?

Tommy: So it heightens everything. If you take steroids and you're eating like shit, you're going to look like a fucking piece of shit.

Josh: So that's why there are like, there's some people who have weight issues and it's because they're taking steroids for some other like—

Tommy: I can't, I wouldn't be able to say, but I know that if you take anabolic steroids and eat like shit, your body fucking just blows up. The thing is, all it does, it turns your body into a recovery machine.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: And why people lift weights on steroids is because they lift weights, their muscles break down, and they repair super fast. So you can train double, you can train quicker, your joints and knee, all that stuff, like everything starts repairing quicker.

Josh: Yeah, sure.

Tommy: But then, and so that's, that's all it does. And so That's why it's not like people— I think it's seen and frowned upon because, you know, of how you, you take it and, and the people that do it. But it was totally normal to me.

Josh: What were the, what were the conversations around it in regards to— did you end up having family members or someone bring it up? Like, was it, was it— did everyone around you know that you were doing it?

Tommy: All my mates.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: And but that's Yeah, and so that's where it's like, I don't think you— it would feel like you're a drug addict hiding things if you were— had no one, no one who did it around you.

Josh: I guess this is why all that Lance Armstrong stuff happened, right? It's like a tribe of people, everyone's doing it, it becomes normal. And so what was— do you remember the last time you took it?

Tommy: Yeah, so it was 20— uh, 2008. Fuck, it was a long time ago. 10 years ago.

Josh: 10 years, correct.

Tommy: It was before I went and did the stripping in New Zealand. Have I talked about the stripping?

Josh: Yeah, yeah, you have, doing the earlier episodes.

Tommy: Um, before I went on that tour of New Zealand, and I like— and I wasn't going to risk taking them with me, of course, over to New Zealand, but I just started the second time. So you only take them for like 6 weeks, like once a week. Something like that. So once or twice a week, but that's it, and small amounts. And so I was going to do it again, and then I had to fly out, and I stopped and never did it again. Never had any interest of doing it again. Isn't it weird?

Josh: Like, I wonder if it wasn't an injectable, how many more people would take it. Yeah, I feel like the putting something, you know, in your bum cheek and like cutting through, because it's— because it's a, a big muscle, right, that it's entering into. Is that why you do it? Like, because you inject it on your— not in your bum hole. I used to think for the longest time when people say in your bum, they just mean on the tissue, on the big—

Tommy: the belly, like the gluteus maximus.

Josh: Yeah, okay, straight in there.

Tommy: And they're small. It's like, it sounds horrible and you could judge me, but it's like, it's, it's so not when you're doing it, which doesn't give any excuse to do it.

Josh: But did you say what sort of side effects did you say? Did you get little balls? Did you notice any of that?

Tommy: They do shrink a bit.

Josh: Yeah. But then, so you actually notice the ball itself, the little—

Tommy: your balls shrinking down a bit because your body's not producing the testosterone, it doesn't need to. Okay, because you're putting it in manually. Yeah, um, so they do, but then they come back. It's such a bizarre thing, isn't it?

Josh: So weird. Were you like super conscious of that?

Tommy: No.

Josh: As a— no, you just don't?

Tommy: I know I did. I, I remember thinking a little bit, but it's so quick, 6 weeks and then you're done.

Josh: And then it all changes. The problem is being very graphic. The problem is jelly bean size would have gone that small.

Tommy: No, no, no, no, no, no, no.

Josh: That would be fucking weird, wouldn't it? Just like noticeably a bit smaller.

Tommy: Yeah, you can definitely. Okay, I think men are always touching their nuts, so you have a gauge, I think. But anyway, the side effects, there's a lot for some people, but I didn't have many. And which doesn't mean you should do it.

Josh: Yeah, don't fuck— you're just wired that way.

Tommy: Don't, don't fucking do them.

Josh: No, it's like, yeah, no, I get it.

Tommy: No, it's scary to look back on the thought that I did them, right? Because there's some serious shit around, like, that you can— if you have cancer cells, it can, yeah, increase them quickly.

Josh: So it's like growing everything, right? It's elevating— well, it's probably like shortening your lifespan. You're essentially like going through the years quicker, maybe. Like, you're just fucking growing. I don't know.

Tommy: But, um, dude, this amount— like, the bodybuilders now would be spending $1,000 a week really on gear.

Josh: How much do you reckon you spent on it?

Tommy: Oh, it's like $300, $400, maybe $600 in total.

Josh: So you think about like $600 total over the—

Tommy: you're just like a vial of it.

Josh: Um, and then we were like, how do you find these types of drugs? You just go to the—

Tommy: no, uh, friends. Yeah, friends that got it, which is like you then as a dumb naive teenager are putting the trust into your mate.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: Who's putting the trust into someone else.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: Which they're not in medical vials. So it's like fucking dangerous.

Josh: Yeah. Which— and so what's the, uh, where do we see this? So it's in bodybuilding, any other like sport? Like, do athletes tend to do this, or—

Tommy: 100%. And see, that's the thing, you wouldn't know. For some athletes that are out there that just need to recover their joints, there'd be footy players that are doing it, I'd say. But you look at it on a, you know, people used to be like, oh, uh, oh yeah, actors, like as if Hugh Jackman's on The Voice. The size of that dude, how he, how quickly he gets to these.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: And think about the medical support he would have.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: You know, looking after his blood work, eating the right food, and you know, he's got a $2 million contract for a movie, a $10 million contract, and he needs to hit this fucking goal. It's like you can't train— you can train pretty hard, your body's fucking massively resilient, but there is a level of, uh, training that you can own, that you can only get to.

Josh: Yeah, if people haven't seen the documentary Icarus, it's fascinating. That's the, uh, the Russian drug doco.

Tommy: Yeah, it's amazing. Look how normalised it is in their world.

Josh: Yeah, cycling massively But then there's this stigma, this, this disconnection between public perception and reality, isn't there? So then you play it like they're, um, how can you— how could they be their authentic self? Like, it's so interesting. I was listening to, um, uh, Lance Armstrong on a podcast. He's just pretty fucking angry about shit. Pretty angry dude, I guess. The lesson is that just because people have done these big things, you don't necessarily need to be a nice person or have great values to get far in a lot of things.

Tommy: Yeah, I mean, he was in a sport where everyone else was doing it. Yeah, so who won the Tour de France? The guy who came 10th because all the other guys were on drugs. Yeah, and so if everyone else is on it and then you're like, that's— imagine that's an easy justification. Well, fucking, they're on it. I'm gonna be on it. But he's a phenomenal athlete. Yeah, take that away from him.

Josh: That's the whole thing. And I think that was his point. It's like people saw that, you know, he did drugs and was like, what was because the drugs? It's like, no, his point was I fucking trained really hard. You do every single thing that you need to do, from training to sleep to diet, and then you also do the drugs. Yeah. And it's like if you just did the drugs and then didn't do all the training and stuff, he wouldn't have had the success that he did.

Tommy: The danger is like, you know, the people go to these music festivals that are massive, that take their tops off. So they're training, you know, like it's like that bro culture. They train hard to get their top off at festivals.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: And then they fucking drink shitloads and take drugs, doing so many things, man. So dangerous.

Josh: Do you think, you know, you're talking before about addiction and mates that have drug addiction, do you feel that drug addiction— do you— are you addicted to a drug, or when you're a drug addict, does it not matter what the choice— what the actual drug is? So for instance, if I'm like— if I'm addicted to fucking ice, would I then just be fucking open to taking anything? I'm addicted to anything that's going to give me a boost. Have you got any sort of personal storeys of that, or knowing, like, is someone who's fucking on heroin or something, yeah, like, are they more likely to do steroids? That probably—

Tommy: maybe, I don't know. But I've got a friend who's an alcoholic, and it's, it's a thing that they came to, a conclusion they came to based around what they've been doing. Not just drinking, just everything.

Josh: Yeah. And so like, when I drink, I also fucking—

Tommy: yeah.

Josh: Do speed or do coke or whatever it is.

Tommy: Chase a bag of coke, fucking get in fights. And so it's this flow on. And so they identified that for them and they've changed, they're completely different. I sent him a message recently and I said, you are the person who you're meant to be. 'Cause he's changed so much. And I fucking said, I'm so proud of you, bro. Like it's amazing, right? And then I had another guy who's an ice head, was an ice head, he called himself that. Um, took everything else.

Josh: DJ Icehead.

Tommy: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Had to, had to get off it and cannot touch any drug because it's just a rabbit hole for him. But it'd be interesting to have a drug addict on the show. We could get a guy who has—

Josh: go out into— we're in Collingwood right now, I reckon we could find one.

Tommy: A guy named Mick Hall. Yeah, he's been to jail, he's been a heroin addict, an alcoholic, he's died, come back to life. Tried to commit suicide, jumped off a bridge.

Josh: Fuck.

Tommy: And legit, he now owns a rehab clinic.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: And they do amazing work. And so he's— but he understands. And I've filmed him talking for 5 hours, um, doing an interview series and just hearing the mind of an addict. And it's really— it's super fascinating. He was interviewed on Craig Harper's podcast, um, and he just shares— it's just insights um, into the mind of an addict. And I'm not even going to bother trying to explain it because you want to hear it from his mouth.

Josh: Yeah, definitely.

Tommy: But it's fascinating. I think you would really enjoy it, talking to a guy like that.

Josh: I think I've never entered into any of these spaces.

Tommy: Any of your mates been drug addicts?

Josh: I've, I've never— I can say I've never been in the presence of anyone taking drugs.

Tommy: Really?

Josh: Yeah, never. Um, alcohol, yes. But I could probably count like in the last, even the last 10 years, I could count on probably one hand, maybe two hands, how many people I've actually been in the company that is like intoxicated.

Tommy: How many does your thumb count for?

Josh: I've got a toe thumb, everyone.

Tommy: Is that for two?

Josh: I do have a toe thumb. He's got his own Instagram, _toethumb. But no. I haven't and won't touch that because I feel like I am predisposed to making bad choices maybe, or just I'm a fucking control freak. So the idea that a substance, whether it's alcohol, I don't even take Panadol and stuff. Like when I've had two herniated discs, they're still fucking herniated. When I got them and I was in pain, I could barely walk. I wouldn't take pain meds because I heard the storeys of the people who it's like, got a fucking bad back, take some pain meds, this is working, so I'm just gonna start, I'm gonna take this for the rest of my fucking life. And for me, this pain was signals to my body, which is like, slow down, sort out your weight, do all these things. And I didn't want that. The Band-Aid. I didn't want that Band-Aid effect. So even things like Panadol and stuff, I just don't take.

Tommy: Yeah, it's interesting.

Josh: Painkillers. Oh, if I've got a headache, I'll drink, you know, a litre of water. And the thing is that I, I don't get like the migraines that say your wife Amy gets where it's like fucking debilitating. I'm sure that'd probably be a different story.

Tommy: Anyone who hasn't taken drugs, I always say don't Don't start, don't bother. Yeah, don't bother. Yeah, I mean, it's a journey you go on, it's the people you're around, and it's the choices you make. Because it's, you know, growing up you hear the stories, oh, the gateway drugs, you know, marijuana leads to this and to that. Essentially they are, yeah, but it's not as dramatic as that, right? They're slow effects. And you know, it's, it's unfortunate they grip some people. Yeah, drugs just grip some people. And if you're like identifying it, you're pretty in tune with your self, because there's every chance you won't be getting addicted. But why the fuck, if you have those thoughts, would you ever test something like that?

Josh: I mean, I, uh, you know, for the one of the first times, uh, I had like wine sort of socially, you know, at our place the other day. I had red wine. It's great. Like, I was a little bit tweaked. I would have had like, um, I don't know what it takes to get people drunk, but I would have had probably 3 glasses, 3 or 4 glasses. Yeah, I was definitely feeling like a little bit like I was— I just felt like what I noticed I was doing is I was like looking at someone and I was just smiling. I couldn't stop it. But, um, I, uh, I— in that afterward, the day after, I was like, oh, I actually enjoyed that and I feel relaxed. I felt connected and we were having a good time.

Tommy: Uh, I've got a bottle of red here.

Josh: Do you want to crack it? Yeah, why not? But I do—

Tommy: you've got a whole fucking I've got a mini bar, but more for looks than anything.

Josh: But the thing is, I think, uh, I was started— I started to look ahead and like, okay, what would my future be like if all of a sudden I created this as a thing? And every Friday night, like, for me to unwind, I need to have a wine, and I just— I don't want to do that. So I think it would be, for me, wine is going to be a, um, an experience which isn't an all the time, like, an everyday thing or weekly thing. It's like once a month or something, we're at a— and it's wine specifically. Like, I don't—

Tommy: like, it's probably a good rule to have.

Josh: I hate the taste of beer. And, um, yeah, no, so that seems like it. That's like— so, but I do enjoy red wine.

Tommy: So do you think you gravitated away from people because of what they were doing? Is any of your mates like actually—

Josh: no, I don't have that many friends.

Tommy: Like, I didn't have—

Josh: you know, I don't have that many.

Tommy: You're my only friend. Friend, Tommy.

Josh: Close friend. Like, I, um, I'm not— I'm a weird social per— I like small groups. I like catching up with people individually. Big, like, going out to lunch, going out to breakfast. I'm the guy— like, Bree and I are the couple that if you have a Sunday morning free, we'll hang out and we'll grab breakfast and all that sort of thing. I'm not the— like, I've got a, um, Friday night drinks thing that I was invited to on Facebook and I'm going, but I can count on one hand how many fucking birthday drinks I've been to because I just don't like, I'm like, what? So I just stand? Like, and what do I do there?

Tommy: Like, dude, they are, I found them boring. I know people are like, oh, you know, just get amongst it. But it's like when I'm not drinking or I know I have to drive, it adds an element, but it's decision whether you go or not. You've made the decision, you probably don't go.

Josh: I just prefer to—

Tommy: It's fine, whatever.

Josh: But the thing is, it's not that I'm not close to people, I would say like if it's their birthday and they've got drinks, I'll be like, let's go out for lunch this week or next week, or like do something else around it to celebrate it. Because also I know that when I'm in a scenario where I've got, if there's a table of 15, I feel like I can get a bit silly.

Tommy: Do you look at what my life is, you know, footage I was showing you of Vegas and how loose it was and just the shit I've told you. Is there any— do you think, fuck, maybe I would have liked a bit of that?

Josh: Nah, I think that I, um, no, not at all. I think that for me it's, uh, I like— I'm not a homebody. I don't think homebody is the right word. Maybe it is. I much prefer entertaining people. I much prefer the idea of having people around. And for me, even if I think about like having a house or having it, it's like the idea of having a barbecue, having people over.

Tommy: It goes well with wine.

Josh: Yeah. So, I think that that's—

Tommy: No, it's a good choice. Don't— Just be you, mate.

Josh: Be you.

Tommy: Don't take steroids.

Josh: Everyone else, be you too. And yeah, don't do drugs, everyone. It's the Daily Talk Show. Thanks again for all of your reviews through the podcast, /itunes/app. If you've ever done it for anything else, just do us a favour and do it for us too. It's The Daily Talk Show on there. And you can send us an email to hi@thedailytalkshow.com. We'll see you tomorrow.

Tommy: Bye, guys!