Relaxing on Good Friday

Tommy: It is the Daily Talk Show, everyone.

Josh: Episode 54.

Tommy: We fucked up yesterday saying that that was 54.

Josh: Mate, when you get into these numbers, it's hard work. It happens, you know.

Tommy: It's in the double digits.

Josh: No, we were tired. Yesterday was a good ep.

Tommy: Good Friday today.

Josh: Oh yeah, happy Good Friday. Is that what you say?

Tommy: Well, I wanted to bring it up with you.

Josh: Okay.

Tommy: Good Friday.

Josh: Yes.

Tommy: I'll tell you my interpretation of what's going on. Yep. You can tell me. I'll tell you about Isla. Yes. Then you can tell me if I'm right or wrong.

Josh: Well, you know that we have a Christian in the house. Yeah, I know.

Unknown: Someone who went to Bible college.

Tommy: Have to— my wife. Well, I was thinking, I didn't know whether she wanted to become the go-to Christian.

Josh: It is a bit of a church in about a year.

Tommy: It's a bit of a niche. But anyway, um, so Easter. Yeah, Jesus. So let me finish the whole thing and then we can see where I've gotten wrong, if I've gotten it wrong. Good Friday, we can't have meat and start red meat and stuff on Good Friday because that's like eating Jesus. Because on Good Friday Jesus died, on Sunday he comes back. Is that correct?

Josh: I think that's what's correct. Hang on, let me just get—

Tommy: just quickly though, why do they call it Good Friday if it's when Jesus died?

Unknown: True.

Josh: I want to get my wife for this.

Tommy: Okay, right, quickly go get her. All right, um, everyone, while we wait, uh, it's the Daily Talk Show that you're listening to. And please send your emails to hi@thedailytalkshow.com.

Josh: And good plugging.

Tommy: Thank you. That's what I'm good at. And we do— we are on Instagram, The Daily Talk Show on Instagram.

Josh: Yeah, 32 followers.

Tommy: Yeah, it's huge. Amos, we're gonna have to just use this mic because we didn't plan it. You had to share a mic. A bit sleazy, but I'll allow it because she's your wife. Um, so good, good Friday. Yeah, so talking through Easter, this is what I thought happened. Jesus died on Friday, which is why we can't have red meat, comes back on Sunday. Thing I'm not sure on is why are we calling it Good Friday if it's— if he died?

Unknown: Great question.

Josh: Um, how much did you pay for, um, going to Bible college?

Unknown: Probably too much.

Tommy: Well, you were in—

Josh: we learned fuck all.

Tommy: Yeah, exactly. Well, this is a pro— this is the problem with all— like, they— all they do is sing nowadays.

Unknown: You just— I don't know.

Josh: And ask for donations. Exactly. You were just like, I don't know if there's any lyrics on that. No, so it was just true in saying, um, was I right? Died on Friday, came back on Sunday.

Unknown: Correct. Um, Resurrection Sunday, that's what that's called. You're welcome. But this is what I heard yesterday, which I thought was interesting. The reason that, um, you have fish is because apparently there were some, um, fish market people who were saying, complaining to the king and saying, we're not selling enough fish. And he goes, oh, I know how to solve that. I'll just tell everyone that that's what they have to eat on Good Friday.

Tommy: This is classic, isn't it? Okay. It's a little bit confusing. And then so does that mean— I wonder how many fillet— fillet fishes? Fillet of fish. Fillet of fish that they sell.

Josh: Amy actually likes a fillet of fish.

Unknown: I do. And I worked at Hungry Jack's and McDonald's.

Tommy: Stop bragging.

Unknown: I worked at Hungry Jack's. On Good Friday, heaps of fish burgers and quite a few chicken burgers also for the people who don't like seafood.

Tommy: Do you know what? I'm going to say something really disgusting, and I want to ask you guys if you have the same issue. Hungry Jack's, one of the few foods smells the same way after when you shit them when you eat it. Like, it's like the, you know, that smoky smell. It's like it's so fucking— It's just like a liquid smell that just goes straight through.

Josh: It's fucked.

Tommy: So like I could, if someone did a shit, I could tell you if they had Hungry Jack's or not.

Josh: That's a double Whopper right there. All right, that's it, thank you.

Unknown: That sounds like a MythBusters type thing.

Tommy: Yeah, exactly.

Josh: Is that a challenge?

Tommy: Is that a challenge? Josh eats Tommy's shit in—

Josh: Hey Amy, sorry, hang on, one thing.

Tommy: Oh, she can't hear you.

Josh: What's the, they shall not something in the village? They should not, it was like something in the Bible that talks about don't shit in your village.

Unknown: Yeah, don't shit where you eat.

Tommy: Don't shit where you are.

Josh: Anyway, that's it. I just prompt— I just needed that. So regardless of what you think about religion, not you personally, but anybody, it's like there is something in the Bible, and I heard this being talked about on another podcast, and it was around something that was in the Bible written years ago before science was even a thing. And it was around— no, like, because science has only been the term science.

Tommy: I just like the way that you said, like, before fucking science was the thing.

Josh: Yeah, seriously. Anyway, and it was— and there's something written there, I don't know the exact term, but it's like, don't shit in the village, don't shit where you eat. So it's like you need to leave the village to do a poo.

Unknown: Yeah.

Josh: And the whole thinking was so people don't get sick. But how the fuck did they know that? How did they know that, like, my— like, you people were getting sick from faeces and the amount of bacteria that was being, you know, spread through that? And so it's like this thing where it's years ago, this person who's the leader or the person that everyone's looking to is saying these things, and they're written into this book, and people follow it, and it allows evolution. Yeah, because if people were just shitting in the village, everyone was going to die.

Tommy: Well, it's almost like test and learn, really, isn't it? Literally, it's like, okay, enough people— fuck, 4 people died. What did they do? Did they, did they eat where they shit? Let's try not doing that.

Josh: Was that Trevor who eats his shit?

Tommy: Yeah, exactly. Or Trevor's dying because he's eating his shit. Fuck yeah.

Josh: I'm seeing connections here between Trevor eating shit and dying. And dying.

Tommy: Yeah, I do. Um, yeah, I feel like, I mean, how do you feel about medicine in general? Say for instance, antibiotics. When I say antibiotics, what do you think?

Josh: Um, health.

Tommy: Nah, no, I don't know, because so for instance, antibiotics.

Josh: I think like, um, sore throat, glandular fever, like some sort of fucking tonsillitis, kids were always taking antibiotics for tonsillitis.

Tommy: But the thing is that there is like such a push, you know, with like, uh, #guthealth, and you know, the gut is like the second brain and all of this shit that's going on. Um, which is probably like 100% true. There's so much we don't fucking know, and there's like, there's all those, um, numbers that they throw at you, which is like there are more fucking cells in your gut than there are in the fucking solar system or whatever fucking thing they say. But, um, I feel like the, uh, what's that called? What was I just saying? What, uh, what's the, what's the thing?

Josh: Antibiotics.

Tommy: Antibiotics. Yeah, they, um A change of tone. Like, I feel like antibiotics now. Bree was getting some antibiotics and people like at her work, just like, what the— Like she got— Went to a dermatologist and they're like, "Oh yeah, take some antibiotics for your skin." Like it's a low dose. Yeah, but the people at her work, she's like very chick-heavy office and they're all like, "No, that's like terrible for you. You can't do that." But it's interesting because it's like, it is that we have gone, um, very, uh, pushbacky on all of this.

Josh: Yeah, no, I get it. I mean, that's why you need to counter this stuff. And it's not— and the idea is you shouldn't be needing antibiotics. So like, if you need it, you need it, right?

Tommy: Well, that's what I said to Bray. I'm like, you need to have tried everything else first before you do that.

Josh: Yeah, I took a low dose of antibiotics for my skin Yeah, I think it helped, but I was taking one every day, I think, or every second day. And I don't know how much it changed me, but like now I con— I think more about it going, fuck, I hope I don't need antibiotics. That's why people drink kombucha, have—

Tommy: yeah, probiotics, bit of yogurt.

Josh: Yeah, yeah, to, to assist with that. I mean, fuck, it's like people who are gluten intolerant, like really gluten tolerant, not just ones who don't—

Tommy: celiac, it's like the actual—

Josh: and then they stop eating and they realise how much better they feel.

Tommy: But you know, the other funny thing is I've, uh, over the last few years I've had a few potential clients I've spoken to that are in the medical industry. It's just, it's a hard fucking game because it's, um, because they're combining marketing to people with like trying to solve a problem. And there's so many things that you would think would be clear-cut that just aren't, where they're like, oh, we can't actually say— like, there's so many things which are sort of in the world as we— like, oh yeah, uh, coconut oil is, you know, good for your skin, or things like that.

Unknown: Yeah.

Tommy: But actually putting it— like, saying some of these things as a marketing speak, you can't do it just because they're actually once you go into the research for certain areas, it's like, oh, there's actually not enough evidence to say that this would be good for this or that.

Josh: Or how much clout did fucking Jesus have to just get the fish sales up?

Tommy: Fuck, I don't know.

Josh: Friday King.

Tommy: Well, I don't know if I can understand someone. I still don't understand. I would like to know. There is something exciting. I— when I was in year 11, I decided to take on classics Subject? It's VCE, so you wouldn't know about it.

Josh: Yeah, I left in year 10.

Tommy: But the, um—

Josh: Thanks, Josh.

Tommy: No, it was like, um, fuck, I don't even know. Like, it's like, uh, I don't even know what history is. History? It's like history, but it's like, you know, like all the Greek shit and all that sort of thing.

Josh: I don't know.

Tommy: Yeah, like, I'm horrendous when it comes to that sort of shit, which is like Understanding, like Bri and I going to Europe later this year, I feel like I have so much to learn in regards to just being able to appreciate things.

Josh: When you are there, you appreciate it a lot more than here.

Tommy: But the thing is you need to fucking understand what's going on, right? Because I just have no sense of like, okay, I actually can't place anything that's sort of beyond, you know, the 1900s, which is what, is that the 20— 20th century. Even that, it's only been recently that I'm like, okay, 20th century, what does that actually mean? Like, what are we— So, the 21st century, you know how you just have these things that like you constantly people are referring to, but then you actually like pull it apart and you go, okay, this is what this means anyway.

Josh: Hot cross buns.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: How do they come into fucking popularity?

Tommy: Yeah, I have fucking no idea, but they've got the— it's interesting. Yeah, well, that's the thing, like, the cross is, um, like, we are a Christian country, which is a weird thing to say, don't you think?

Josh: Well, America is too. Yeah, some of the biggest countries in the world.

Tommy: But fucking America is like way more Christian than we are.

Josh: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Tommy: Especially you go to fucking Texas and they have these huge churches.

Josh: Well, you're talking about the the majority of people in the country that are religious in some respect are most likely going to be Christian.

Tommy: Well, our Catholic— our Uber driver Paul the other day, Christian, talking about just like, like when I talk to, um, religious people, sometimes it's not even— they're not— they don't really even get into the details of things. They're like, look, I really just do it because I need something just to be less fucking sad about all the shit that's going on.

Josh: Yeah, that's what he said.

Tommy: He did, didn't he? That was basically what he said.

Josh: Where was he? He was Congolese or Kong from the Congo. His family were from the Congo, lived in Johannesburg.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: And now lives in Australia.

Tommy: Interesting dude.

Josh: Fuck, that would be— yeah, lived in some interesting places.

Tommy: Um, but, uh, religion, all of this stuff sort of ties into, I guess It's like community for what, like, you create a community and then it's sort of like organising people and values and ideas. And, um, you know, we're talking yesterday about like businesses and like what is, what is the role of an organization, you know, like in a capitalist society, how much should they be caring about money versus the well-being of their employees? And the example that we were talking about specifically was Uber. So, Uber right now, they are paying Uber drivers to be able to go around, you know, driving people. And that is like the selling point. If you— they've had little fucking video vignettes of hired, you know, like a company like ours to create these little videos on the mum that gets to be an Uber driver and make a bit of cash and all that sort of thing.

Josh: There was one on the internet recently of the women in the Uber.

Tommy: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Josh: You watched that? Yeah, yeah. Going there. Yeah, and so you're saying that they are pushing, look at this opportunity to be self-employed if you're not working and you can start making money today.

Tommy: Yeah, but also like we're enabling people to live their best lives and all that sort of thing. However, like what happens, uh, what happens when the driverless car comes? You know what's gonna happen.

Josh: You're done.

Tommy: Yeah, they're gonna, they're gonna fuck them off straight away. And so then it brings up the— that question, which is like, okay, so initially they're servicing people right now as drivers because that's actually best for their bottom line. They need the workers. But what happens to those workers when we don't need them anymore?

Josh: Most people haven't— I actually hadn't thought that. I don't think a lot of people would have thought, because that would— you'd think that's an internal Discussion? Do you think that's within the CEOs, all the—

Tommy: Fucking, like as in, well, Uber specifically, 100%. They have tests around the US right now testing driverless cars. Do you remember when we were in an Uber in, I think it was with you or maybe it was with someone else, maybe I don't know if I told you this story. I was in an Uber in Sydney And I was having a conversation about driverless cars, it's probably a year ago, with the Uber driver. And I was saying what I thought was going to happen, which is basically he was going to be out of a job. And as I left the Uber, he said, "Oh, how long do you reckon until this all happens?" And I said, "Oh, I reckon 3 to 5 years." I'm like, "All right, have a good day." And then got out of the car. You could just sort of see his like fucking mind be like, fuck.

Josh: There's like someone going, you're in video? Yeah, well, someone's gonna take your job. 3 to 5 years, you'll be unemployed.

Tommy: You could be fucked. All right, bye, have a good one.

Josh: Um, gave him a 2-star rating.

Tommy: Yeah, but it is, um, yeah, it does, it does start to, uh, it does start to bring up those questions. Like, what is, what's retail? Like, what's retail going to be like? So, uh, the One of the associations that sort of represent retail went to Fair Work Australia or whatever organisation it is and says, we don't want to give our retail employees any pay rise this year, not even inflation. So, whatever the 2% or whatever that you expect just to be able to live at the standard that you were last year. Retail is so fucked that we basically want to get the tick of approval to not have to give everyone that.

Josh: So I think it's fair. I think it's fair from the business. It's not fair for the employee, but I think these businesses won't be around.

Tommy: Well, so, and this is the thing, and so this is the, the interesting part of it, which is like you have this, uh, push and pull, which is like Okay, we want to— it's like, I think we're empathetic to the businesses as well because we run businesses and it's like we obviously want to pay people as much as we can pay them. But at the same time, if we're not making enough money, it's like the whole oxygen mask thing. You need to fucking put on your mask before you help others. Because if we're not all set, if we're fucking paying people and we're out, we're completely stretched. And we're struggling to pay our fucking retail lease and suppliers and all that sort of shit, those people aren't going to be in a fucking job in a year. So, I sort of understand that retail association's approach, which is, hey, for us to survive right now, we all need to take, we all need to sort of, I don't know what you would describe it, basically, take a step back and say, okay, well, what can I do to be able to help this system grow? And realise that that's not just the default, that you're always going to be getting a pay rise every year.

Josh: Well, I think there's a— kids these days, and I think kids these days, I don't know, maybe I was one of them, but it's— I think people, like, I've— people are expecting $27 an hour for most jobs, whatever it fucking is, like entry-level jobs. And people just, oh yeah, I'm not doing that unless It's like kids don't wanna get out of bed for, you know, under $30 an hour.

Tommy: Yeah, and that was even me thinking about like having a kid on doing work experience. I was thinking, okay, what should I be paying? Like, and there's the part of me which is like, oh, you know what? I wanna pay them okay. Like it's almost like an ego thing in some regards, or it's like this thing where it's like, oh, I wanna be known as the guy who looks after people. Right. But then I was like really deconstructing it and I was like, actually, the biggest thing, if I pay this person well, then it's going to become about the money. It's going to be like, okay, I want this because I can actually buy things. But what happens if I create enough friction for them? If I say I'm going to pay you the fucking minimum that I have to pay you and you're going to work, and then all of a sudden they have to make a decision. Which is in the working, in the making, in the pushing themselves forward versus trying to make cash. Um, yeah, it's interesting.

Josh: I was out last night, um, working.

Tommy: Fuck, you're at— so you, you, you worked on a shoot with me?

Josh: We left it— I left my house at 7 AM, got home at 7 PM.

Unknown: Yeah.

Josh: And then had some dinner, went Went to bed, woke up at 12 AM. So, I had like a 3-hour nap, maybe not even, 2.5 hours.

Tommy: In bed?

Josh: Like 4? Yeah, I got into bed and then I went and filmed some stuff at a club, nightclub. 12:45 till 2:45, see? Yeah, something like that. Fuck me.

Tommy: What sort of people are out at that time? Loose units, really.

Josh: Like those Easter holidays, any kind of holiday, Labor Day weekend, like people just fucking go hard. I saw it all. I— there was people just off their face, like their eyes just popping out of their head. It's fine, no aggression or anything. I got bitten.

Tommy: By who?

Josh: It sounds really weird. I told Amy too, I was like, I— some dude, some guy bit my arm in the club.

Tommy: I guess you're a bit of a— when you've got a camera and stuff. I used to do like— we've had conversations about this before, but from like the age of 16 to 18, yeah, a way that I made a bit of money was doing the event scene space. So it started off 18th, 21st, and then doing all the, um, uh, university events. So it'd be like, oh, it's sponsored by fucking, um What's the big booze brands? I'm trying to think. There was— can't even remember the names now, but everyone had the fucking lanyards that were all Bacardi. Exactly. Um, yeah, people would just get fucking loose. And I was even the other day, I found old footage and I was sort of scrubbing through it really quickly trying to find, um, people I knew because I'm like, fuck, there's definitely people that I would work with now who are a few years older than me that I was probably at their fucking commerce parties. But anyway, so you were, um, you got fucking bitten.

Josh: So I had my hands like holding the camera up, it was so fucking busy, and I had my hands above my head with the camera and this dude just bit my arm like really lightly. And he kind of just— it was, it was weird because he just gave me this like cheeky look like, and then just fucking got back to dancing.

Tommy: What sort of bite?

Josh: It was just like a Like, just being funny, almost like you're almost like if you were biting a baby's arm, you're just putting your teeth around. But it was so fucking weird.

Tommy: But I was just like, was he doing it for attention from mates?

Josh: Well, no, no, he was just a tall dude. My arms were up and he just like literally turned his head around.

Tommy: It's almost like an equivalent of that would be like give you a little tickle or something, just like tickle your armpit or whatever.

Josh: So it sounds weird when you say it, but it was like, I got the— I got it.

Tommy: Okay, give it a little bite.

Unknown: You're a weird cat, I'm out of here.

Josh: And then on the way home, I saw a girl getting out of what looked like an Uber, and she just really fast— I saw it all.

Tommy: What? I don't really have— you know, people talk when they talk about travel, they talk about nightlife. It's like, oh, Josh, you'll just love the nightlife. I'm like, will I? How good's the bed? Because I like— I don't have that much experience on nightlife. Like, it's all alcohol-fueled.

Josh: I've done that. I've partied at this club as a kid, like as an 18-year-old, 19-year-old. And then overseas I've done the nightlife in all the places.

Tommy: Is there any— so there are some places, Asia, places like Pakistan, where the nightlife is actually fucking interesting. Like, yeah, there's just— people are awake and it's not like booze-filled or anything like that. It's literally like, uh, my mate Muhammad Harris talks about this in a video that I made with him. It's like, if you want food at 3 AM, you just go out into a stall and there's a dude making—

Josh: No, I think it's because I don't do the nightlife like that anymore. If I went to America, I might go out and party a little bit because there's some fun stuff there. But, um, in Europe, we like this, but you go and watch sunsets and there's fuckloads of people just there to watch the sunset. They take food or they take booze or whatever, and you just are literally watching something. Like in Florence, there's this beautiful hill. You should go there if you stay in Florence. And it's like this, um, it's the— where I told you about I was went there with the blind guy and he said, "How good's the view?" as the joke. He was a fucking legend travelling the world by himself. Weapon. Anyway, we went to this spot, we walked up there. We took some wine and stuff and they have food trucks up there. You don't have to drink. And so, that's like the nightlife. And then, you go out for dinner first and then you go and do that. So, there is like Italy, there's lots of nightlife in terms of markets, like restaurants on the water.

Tommy: Is there like a nightclub? Is it a nightclubby sort of scene?

Josh: They're full on. Yeah, yeah. There's full on nightclubs in Italy. Florence, there was heaps of duffs. Paris.

Tommy: Is it an age thing? Like, is that for like a young crowd?

Josh: No, just people drinking.

Tommy: I loved like Barcelona. They had like the beach or whatever, like near sort of the city, which is really beautiful.

Josh: Good clubs there, really. But you got to be drinking to it. Yeah, it is the worst place to be.

Tommy: But I don't— you think it's a little bit like— do I sound like a bit naive where I'm like, it's a bit mind-numbing?

Josh: Like Not when— no, no, no, my ears were ringing when I got home, but I got— felt the energy. Like, I was filming, you know, like you start— I was tired when you start, and then you start getting energy into it. I was into it by the end.

Tommy: I was a bit fucking moving, doing real fucking tricky stuff. Someone's—

Josh: someone's spiked my drink, but fucking, I haven't slept yet. No, no, no. Um, yeah, but there it is, mind-numbing to some degree, but you, you, you're when you're drunk, it's different.

Tommy: Were people trying to talk to you?

Josh: Everyone, because I haven't done like a club shoot like that in ages. And so I had so many people, yeah, yeah, um, thanks, and they'd just stand back with their friends waiting for a photo. Yeah, I'm just like, it's video.

Tommy: Oh, oh, sorry, sorry.

Josh: Like, they seemed like they were, oh, we're so dumb. It was, it had been 10 times.

Tommy: Well, because they all— did you have a Do you have an on-camera light? Do you need one? I can give you one for Sunday.

Josh: Oh, yeah.

Tommy: It could be good.

Josh: Like, you know what I use? My iPhone.

Tommy: Oh, of course.

Josh: Literally just held my iPhone up above.

Tommy: The A7S is quite good because it's so fucking good, but it's nice because the A7S is just going to increase all the light, right?

Josh: Yeah, yeah. What's there.

Tommy: What's there. So, it might be super like fucking colourful, like you get these crazy colours and shit like that. That actually might be a good solution, just having a fucking on. I've been thinking about that where it's like, because, you know, we, we get into this realm where we're like fucking doing this real cinematography, you know, fucking sexy shit. But to make events and stuff look good, sometimes you just need to blast a little bit of light on it.

Josh: That's what the iPhone, iPhone was doing.

Tommy: I was literally doing that the, uh, other day on that Lululemon shoot. I had two, the two people 2 people from the client were just holding their iPhones up like above, like with the light on, and that was like enough light just to fucking change completely the look of the person. That looks pretty good. What's happening for you at long weekend?

Josh: I'm about to head off to Lorne.

Tommy: Great.

Josh: Eat a few chocolate eggs, drink a few beers.

Tommy: Are you staying there?

Josh: Yeah, staying the night. I used to go to Lorne and from probably age of 14. Every New Year's Eve.

Tommy: What sort of— what area do you go? Are you like a trailer park?

Josh: Nah, no, no, like stay in the, in the, um, the million-dollar houses that are owned by my friend's grandparents.

Tommy: Amazing.

Josh: That's what you want. I've got a couple of friends that have houses up there.

Unknown: Great.

Josh: Um, and so yeah, we're lucky we've got a friend's grandparent owns this beautiful property. They've had it in their family for fucking years.

Tommy: Are the grandparents gonna be there?

Josh: No, no, no, it's just us. Family holiday.

Tommy: That'd be nice.

Josh: So I'm gonna— I took— I got the drone. Oh great, inspired by yesterday, got it charged up. Problem is when you fucking haven't used your drone ages, turn it on and there's all these updates you have to do.

Tommy: Yeah, and they're all going to stop you from doing anything probably because now they've got all the restrictions. But you'll be— guarantee you won't be the only drone there. That's what I've been— when I was in WA, be fucking flying and all of a sudden especially if you're near a fucking caravan park. Every caravan park has some fucking cunt with a drone, and as soon as they hear one, they go, fuck, better— it's like a drag race, better get it fucking up.

Josh: That's funny.

Tommy: Oh God, what do you got, Phantom 4 Pro?

Josh: I want to take it to, um, the falls. Fall— oh yeah, Erskine Falls.

Tommy: Yeah, I think you should be fine. Just obviously, mate, all of those areas have the heli fucking pads and shit, But I mean, you, you know, let's talk, let's talk, just get the shot, mate. And it's a fucking small— it's a Mavic, it's not like, um, a big, uh, big drone.

Josh: See, this is the thing, imagine if I was worrying about constantly, like, just don't fly it over a group of people or cars where it can fall and kill somebody. Yeah, fly over the water, it will, it will fall into the water and you, you've lost your drone.

Tommy: Yeah, that's true.

Josh: Um, but yeah, I take Bodhi for a bit of a fly.

Tommy: So you back, uh You're back Sunday? Saturday?

Josh: Sunday.

Tommy: Sunday.

Josh: So we're back Monday. Yeah, strong.

Tommy: Yeah, I'm excited.

Josh: Easter Monday.

Tommy: Yeah, it'll be good. All right everyone, have a good long weekend if you're in Australia. Yeah, and what do they do? Easter's the same fucking thing everywhere, right? Yes, yes, yes. It should be a— I don't know about, um, I was in Malta a few years ago for Easter and they're a big Christian Catholic Any eggs?

Josh: Big on the eggs there?

Tommy: I think they do the whole fucking— they're so religious, they do like, they don't even think about chocolate. They do all like the coloring, you know, like the paint, the dyeing and egg and yeah.

Josh: I've done that.

Tommy: Yeah, which is fine, but I think because actually—

Josh: But I want chocolate.

Tommy: Exactly. It's like, it's all well and good.

Josh: So, I flew out the country.

Tommy: No, I remember actually had, they had the peanut butter Kit Kats there. Fucking love that. Oh, good shit, good shit. But it is the Daily Talk Show, everyone.

Josh: Fuck.

Tommy: Every time I look at the time now, I just think of B-Mac. I'm like thinking of him.

Josh: So, you're going to be cut saying this?

Tommy: No, it's nearly 30 minutes, so it's been okay. But send us an email. I feel like we should ask a question of the audience. Okay.

Josh: What's a topic that you'd like to hear us discuss?

Tommy: Actually, you know what? Let's use the last couple of minutes to talk about a question that we got from Michelle on the email, hi@thedahtalkshow.com. Uh, Fame. Okay, uh, when did this come through? This, this came through, um, uh, a couple of days ago, but I, um, I think because we're both sharing the inbox, when I press open, you can't— you don't notice it goes.

Josh: Yeah, what does it show?

Tommy: Here we go, here we go. So Fame, she says, here's a subject for you: what would you do for fame? And if you got it, how do you think it would change your lives? Note that I said fame, not money.

Josh: She's linked out a few things.

Tommy: She's linked to a couple of articles, some BBC, um, have you opened them? New stuff. Now let's, let's, uh, let's just look at the, the surface of the question. Yeah, that's how we go. So what would you do for fame?

Josh: What would I do for fame? What do you mean by that?

Tommy: Yeah, I know. Well, I'll give it a crack at the answer. I think what I'll do for fame is do the work that I do. So, I would like, I'm not interested in fame. I don't need to be the guy at the fucking who jumps on the tennis court. Remember there was that fucking nutso dude who jumped in front of cars at Grand Prix, fucking jumped on the tennis court. He was like a serial pest.

Josh: Do you know who Vitaly is?

Tommy: No.

Josh: Vitaly is like a big YouTuber.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: He has like streaked a couple of times, streaked at the World Cup in Brazil. Um, he streaked at some other event.

Tommy: Doesn't fucking interest— not interested in that fame at all. Not—

Josh: he's a prankster though. I used to want to be famous years and years and years ago. Yeah, but it was soon very much realised that you need something to be famous at. I like to ask the question, what do you— I was actually thinking about this yesterday, um, what do you want to be famous for? Not in the terms of I want to be a pop star.

Tommy: What do you want to be known for? What do you want? It's a— yeah, it's a, it's a brand question.

Josh: Yeah, for me, creativity, like my ideas. I want to be famous, and I say that is like a loose term. I want to be famous. I want to be known. If people think about me, I'd love to be known. That's that guy that has those really interesting ideas.

Unknown: Yeah.

Josh: And he— and executes them through video.

Unknown: Yeah.

Josh: So it's like, ah, you know, and I, and I feel like I've done some of it, have some ideas that have resonated, but On a big scale, it would be great to, you know, be known for the person that has great ideas.

Tommy: Yeah, I think for me, uh, it's about, uh, I would love to be known for the person who inspires others to look beyond the status quo. So I'd love to, through the content that I make, get people questioning their current situation. And because there is so much content There's fucking, you know, Married at First Sight. There's all these reality shows and TV and films which are promoting the status quo. Just fucking sit on your couch, like, do your job, come home, sit on the couch, consume this trash media, eat this trash food, and do it again tomorrow. And then you know what? You're gonna feel so shit about it all because you're not fucking moving and you're not sort of stretching yourself that the advertisements during, uh, you know, those shows are gonna sell you on the things that are gonna make you feel better. The, the fucking, the, the slimmers, the fucking trimmers, all that, all that shit, right?

Unknown: Yeah.

Tommy: And so what I would like to be known for is for looking beyond that, asking questions, and standing out. And That's been the, um, it's fucking hard because I think that our world is set up in this, um, in this way where we naturally look at what other people are doing. And that's what, like, that's been my pushback on YouTube has been like, what am I bringing to this? What am I actually doing? And I think that the Daily Talk Show, I do feel like I'm doing that because I'm not I'm, um, I don't feel like I'm just trying to fucking copy something that's already out there. I think that we are actually trying to create something that's a little bit different.

Josh: Or, um, yeah, so I think that that's, that's something in relation to Michelle's question. I opened one of her links, a fucking bloke cemented his head into a microwave. A prankster, they called him. So I get it, it's like, what, what lengths will you go to to achieve fame? And, and But in response to that, I think it has to align. Like, I don't have a craving to do some dumb prank for the sake of a prank. But if something—

Tommy: if it's an Obike—

Josh: well, if it has connection to that, what do I want to be known for, famous for? It's ideas. And so Obike, for one, is a silly thing that got me some notoriety in some space. A guy at the fucking shoot we're on yesterday said, yeah, you're the Obike guy.

Unknown: Yeah.

Josh: I didn't even fucking get paid for it, but an idea that I had, yeah, that I told you about, and you were like, good idea, yeah, yeah, and then I executed and you said, great idea, that's fucking funny. That's— that traveled, right?

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: And so that small micro scale— so I don't know, I, I don't want to— I don't want to make people look stupid. I don't want to, you know, offend people for the sake of it.

Tommy: It's, it's like this: fame, finance— there's 100 different ways to get there. There's 100 different ways to make money. We could fucking make money, uh, today by going on the street and fucking selling people on things, or making calls to the elderly and saying, hey, we'll do this thing for you in regards to, you know, and make money that way. And it wouldn't be aligned with our values. And it's the exact same thing with fame. There are a dozen ways to be famous, and there's a dozen ways to make money, you know, hundreds of ways, thousands of ways.

Josh: And, um, you have to be careful though the way you make the fame, because that's then what people know you for, right?

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: And so what's his name, uh, Jesse, the 10 million subscriber YouTuber?

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: I don't know him as the prank guy. You know him as the prank guy.

Tommy: Oh yeah, his whole fucking channel was Prank V Pranked or whatever. That was literally what he did. Um, And so now his, uh, you know, his identity is aligned with that. And that's happened so many times where it's like, even a friend of mine who, you know, had some success in the early 2000s Australian television, is known for that thing. And he's gone on and done all of this other stuff, and people will still see him in the street and say, hey, I know you from that show. And so, um I don't see, I see these things almost like startup land. I'm sure I've spoken about this before on the podcast because I'm constantly reminding myself of it, is investors, one of the things that they don't necessarily like seeing is hockey stick growth. And it's this thing of, you know, Pinterest was hockey stick growth. It is this, it's normally based on a trend or a time. It's like fucking, what's that? What's the app that that was hot for a bit? Vero. Vero.

Josh: Oh yeah, right. Even Periscope.

Tommy: Vero is a good example. Yeah, Periscope, another one. Meerkat, another one. These, they have fucking this, you know, they go big at South by Southwest. Twitter was one that actually, you know, did pretty well out of it. But, um, yeah, these things that have these big spikes of success, and what happens with these big spikes of success is what comes up normally comes down, and it comes at the sort of— there's that fucking Einstein-y, you know, like, what is it?

Josh: What goes up must come down.

Tommy: Law of fucking something. Relativity. Yeah, no, I think you actually nailed it.

Josh: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Who do I say— hear someone say recently? You, you— if you, you, you fail fast, like, if you have success fast, you'll fail fast. You're more likely to fail fast, which is the same principle. That was the guy from Kathmandu, saying about that. His company was scaling too fast, yeah, and they started having a whole bunch of stuff and he just fucking pulled it back, yeah, and just— he's like, we're having too much growth, we need less growth, yeah, to keep this as a company that will be around 100 years' time.

Tommy: And the thing is that failing fast is a tried and true technique which people use, but it's at a different scale, right, which is Fail fast every day, which is just basically— fail fast is another way of saying execute every day. Yeah, because test and learn. Yeah, every— yeah, because every single time you execute, you are going to inevitably fail because— and especially if you're doing things that, uh, that aren't already out there.

Josh: Yeah, so, um, yeah, and so I think, yeah, fail fast can be the opposite also, which is Yeah, it will come tumbling down. Fail fast, fail forward. There's all these fucking buzzwords. Yeah, the thing is, some entrepreneur that's never built a business has come up with—

Tommy: it's literally just make things, do things, move forward, I think, is the way of doing it. Um, and spending too much time being theoretical about it is a, is a danger. But also realising that it's the, um It's that deep work, the fact that book Deep Work is so good.

Josh: I've been posted about last night.

Tommy: Yeah, I've been listening to it again. It's just this idea, the reason it came up, I was watching fucking— talking about trash shows— Gogglebox. And, uh, they, you know, they go— what I like about Gogglebox is it's a bit of psychology because you get to see all these different people reacting to what's out there on TV. You know, it shows snippets of shows and shows people sitting on couches Commentating it, basically. And they had the lady, the chick at 27 years old, who was like fucking hanging out with the chimps. Did you see this documentary? Fucking amazing. It's like, it's the longest study ever done on like an animal. And she basically embedded herself with them and like learnt all about them. Fucking fascinating stuff. And everyone on Gogglebox was like, man, I just feel like so inadequate. Like, look at what she's done. And it made me think and reflect on Deep Work. Here's someone who they found all the, like, hundreds of hours of footage of her. Like, this is from like yonks ago, like maybe the '70s or something like that, uh, maybe even earlier. Her in Africa doing all this stuff, amazing shit. And the value, what people are actually valuing, and I don't think people are recognising it, is fucking head down doing shit. It's not like she's not fucking posting. She wasn't like putting out fucking daily content, like daily vlogs. Like, obviously it's a different time, but she just put her head down. And there is, I think that that is going to be the area which is going to have the highest value, which is long-form deep work versus this daily shit. Because the daily stuff is going to be— is really easy to consume. Think about it this way: processing something in a lab, you know, create— processing food really quickly versus planting a seed and growing real food. Which one has the the most amount of nutrition and value. Um, and if we're just using time as the scale and we're just saying, fuck, quick is good, just keep putting it out—

Josh: well, I think also what it— a way to explain it for me makes sense in my head is like what I've been doing for the last couple of years, actually getting good at making videos, actually understanding how to make videos, how to colour grade, how to shoot, how to expose right, lighting and all that shit, and not being— not trying to jump a few steps.

Tommy: Yeah, slow and steady. Like, like, there is something in slow and steady.

Josh: Um, so if you're trying to do the thing that you actually can't do, which is 5 steps away from you, and you need to do step 1, 2, 3, 4, and then 5— if you're looking at like a step-by-step process, people are trying to jump steps and start at a place where they're, they're not really meant to be starting. And chances of them actually succeeding by starting there is not— won't work.

Tommy: And it's because it's the democratisation of the platforms, of the equipment. And what I mean by that is it's like, think about radio, right? Think about what you had to do to be on radio. There were these steps that you went through. There was the fucking with a talent pipeline, all this shit where it's like you start small, you do these regional stuff, you do the fucking sausage sizzles and the all of that stuff, you know, to be able to work your way up to metro.

Unknown: Yeah.

Tommy: And what we're in now is a world where it's like you can have the exact same platform that everyone else has. You can, you can start a podcast and call yourself a podcaster without having any experience. And you can be on a reality show and go from being on a reality show to having a metro radio show where you're being paid a lot of coin. And the thing is that you're missing all of this fucking growth, and you'll do it in a different way. But there's definitely something to be said of— it's the, um, it's like Ricky Gervais. Ricky Gervais became fucking successful at what, 40? And he's poor.

Josh: He'd fuck all money.

Unknown: Yes.

Tommy: And the thing is that would he have had, you know, the success he's had? Would he have been able to speak about the things and the friction in life if he'd just been fucking successful at 21?

Josh: No. But then it's like accepting the— accepting where you are is based around everything else. Maybe it's not the right time for you to be where you actually want to be. Like where I am now, I think about 2 years ago, my headspace— I was not here. I could not be here. My head wasn't here.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: And where I'll be in 5 years' time, I can't even fathom that yet. And so the patience in going, I need to let this unravel and do the work, head down, and then do the work, because that shit will change, that shit will come, right?

Tommy: And the other thing too is it's— I think what's hard as humans is it's we don't when we're in it, we don't see it. It's like, um, uh, you know, every single day, you know, we're in our bodies every single day. It's the same feeling that when you look at yourself 3 years ago and you're like, oh fuck, look at it, how different I looked there. And we don't feel it because every single— these small changes, these small shifts over a long period of time happen. And because we're, we're there, right? It's like fucking imagine looking at a river and just constantly seeing the change is happening so gradually and over the entire area that you don't notice that in the right-hand side a tree has grown, right? Because there's so much else going on. And so, I think that that happens in life constantly where it's— You don't notice the growth.

Josh: I mentioned it to you this week. I feel like this week for me, just a few little things that have happened, I feel like I'm understanding who I really am. And not— I can't even really articulate it, but it's like I know that sticking to this style, like, and especially around storytelling and being me and shit, and, and I guess, how do I— it's like the example of my mate. I showed him a video that I was trying to do and it was a real different style, and he's like Nah, he's like, yeah, it's okay, but I want to see you. I want to see you, you sort of getting excited and telling me about it. And I was like, and it just sort of connected a few dots for me about how I do it. And what he was actually saying was my most preferred, most comfortable form of storytelling, which he was saying he liked. And so I kind of was like, fuck, just starting to understand sort of where to, where to, where to go. Yeah. And then when you watch other people doing their thing, it's like People who are successful are just really good at fucking knowing and playing to their strength.

Tommy: And experiment. I think the thing is that you experiment, you take 1%, you expect— you go 70% the other way and then realise actually I only needed 3%. So this is fucking— and so that's the thing, that process is still tweaking and it's still informing.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: And it is that gradual growth, which I think is, it's hard because it's less rewarding. It's less, it doesn't give you that fucking instant gratification.

Josh: It's hard, dude. Like receiving feedback on something.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: Your work, who you are as a person, it's fully fucking difficult to handle at times. And I feel it. Like I think I'm quite good with showing people things and getting feedback and stuff, but I fucking feel like the heat coming into my body and feeling a bit tingly and like, fucking, I know what I have to do now because you've said something that I fucking knew. But it's like, that's how you challenge and change and grow, right? By hearing these things you don't really want to hear.

Tommy: And it's being able to gain perspective. And the other thing too, I think, is it's like who you are yesterday isn't necessarily who you are today. And if we are, if we are a product of the experiences that we have, we can't expect that Tommy 3 years ago is the Tommy that, that we see today. And I think that that's probably one of the things that we do as people. We, we assume that people shouldn't change, and we, we think that, hang on, this fucking person said that they were this and they were You know, it's like that Jesse from YouTube who's like, you know, audiences say, no, you, you're the prank guy, you are this, you know, you are this person. I know Katy Perry talks about how she believes that you, your age stops at when you become famous. So she was, you know, famous sort of young, and she feels like she's still that age. You sort of become cemented and sealed, and then that's what people sort of expect of you.

Josh: Macaulay Culkin still thinks he's in Home Alone.

Tommy: Yep. Well, fuck, maybe, maybe there is, you know, some sort of truth to that in the sense of if we look at, you know, where people who peak early, where they end up.

Josh: Not Justin Bieber, he, I mean, he was famous early, but Michael Jackson.

Tommy: Yeah, he was a kid his whole life.

Josh: Look at the fucking dude, he had a Wonderland, had a, you know, a theme park in his house. Yeah, and a monkey.

Tommy: Exactly. So he's doing his own study. Yeah, he's doing it, getting deep work.

Josh: Fucking, but he was misunderstood. He was just doing deep work at his theme park. Love you, Mikey.

Tommy: It is, uh, no, it's all, it's all stuff to, to think about and to, to move on about. But BMAC, that last fucking 20 minutes was for you, you fuckhead.

Unknown: Uh, it's the Daily Talk Show everyone.

Tommy: Send us an email, hi@thedailytalkshow.com. And please, uh, we just gave you a fucking extra 20 minutes and Tommy's meant to be in lawn. Yeah, um, have a good one everyone, and we'll see you and hear from you on, uh, on Monday.

Josh: Bye-bye.