Quitting jobs

Josh: The Daily Talk Show, everyone.

Tommy: It's Thursday 48. Yeah boy, episode 48. We're so close to 50. We still haven't nutted out exactly what we're doing. It could be a spontaneous episode 50 celebration.

Josh: Yeah. Uh, yeah, so where are we at?

Tommy: 48?

Josh: No, where are we at with 50?

Tommy: Oh yeah, that's what I'm saying, we don't know yet.

Josh: Have you spoken to Shades?

Tommy: Oh yeah, yeah, we might be taking the show on tour. To Shepparton.

Josh: Okay, what's the next steps to make that happen? This, guys, you're—

Tommy: Are you free Monday? Am I free Monday?

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: Do you want to stay the night there?

Josh: Can we— Is the nightclub an option still, or no?

Tommy: Yeah, the bar's open, so we're thinking about maybe doing it from a bar in Shepparton.

Josh: Is there a difference between a nightclub and a bar?

Tommy: It turns into a nightclub. It is a bar, they serve food, and then it gets real funky late at night.

Josh: All right, how long does it take? How far away is Shepparton from Melbourne?

Tommy: We could leave right now and get there in an hour and 45.

Josh: Well, we're not doing that. I've got shit to do.

Tommy: But, uh, an hour and 45 minutes.

Josh: An hour and 45. Fuck, that's piece of piss.

Tommy: Okay, uh, Monday.

Josh: Yeah, Monday. Calendar's looking really good. Yeah, it's very bad.

Tommy: It's actually nothing in there.

Josh: I—

Tommy: it's— we could actually work from there. I like working remotely.

Josh: Yeah, that would be fun.

Tommy: We can— I mean, that's the best thing. Fuck, you work from anywhere these days if you've got your laptop and your hard drive.

Josh: WFA.

Tommy: Work from anywhere.

Josh: Man, that took you way longer than it should have. You literally— that was like we were into when we interviewed a person yesterday and they had to change their— stopped mentioning their job as an acronym and say the full thing. Yeah, it's 3 times.

Tommy: Shit, simple shit throws you sometimes and you're embedded in saying something.

Josh: It's a good memoir title, Simple Shit Throws Me.

Tommy: Simple Shit Throws Me. Josh is now on his computer looking to see if the domain's free to buy, potentially. No, I, um, oh, what are you doing?

Josh: I'm literally just clicking onto Adobe Audition so I can make sure that we're— but I had a stroke halfway through. I literally— if you'd seen, I understand why Tommy said it, because I went down to the dock on the Mac and then just sort of just stopped. Are you forgetful? Do you forget shit or no?

Tommy: I've always prided myself on being The opposite of prideful.

Josh: Prided myself.

Tommy: I've prided myself on being the opposite of forgetful, but I just realised that I didn't have a great deal going on in my life. Yeah, because once you start having multiple, like hundreds of tasks, mini tasks across a week, yeah, that you're responsible for, you do. And then the workload and pressures and stresses from, you know, big projects or, you know, family stuff, it's like you actually do start forgetting shit. So you just It's like passwords. At one point I kept all my passwords in my head. Yeah, fuck that. Now use—

Josh: Can that be a new segment? Because when you said fuck that at the same time, yeah, yeah, it's almost like Hughesy's losing it. It's like, oh no, because they do Fuck You Fridays. What can we do? Yeah, fuck that.

Tommy: All right, do you know what?

Josh: That's one of the—

Tommy: don't leave your passwords in your head.

Josh: Can I tell you a bit of a fuck that? Yeah, because it's a Thursday. Fuck that. Yeah. Mate, my Pelican case, the foam that comes with it.

Tommy: A Pelican case is a hard box, basically, to keep your camera gear in.

Josh: Yeah, it's the one, like, it gets used in other industries too. I think probably fishermen might use it to put their little tackle and shit, like little ones.

Tommy: Mini ones.

Josh: Mini ones or rifles and shit.

Tommy: Guns would get put in Pelican cases.

Josh: Yeah, Pelican cases or musos and shit, too.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: You would have seen them. They can have rollers and stuff on them. But the foam picked shit that comes with it. So, it's like, imagine like foam and they've sort of half serrated the whole thing so that you can pull out little square by square.

Tommy: Yeah. So, get your camera shape that you want or your whatever shape.

Josh: Whatever shape you're trying to put it like. So, if you're putting a camera or if you're putting a fucking gun, you can like—

Tommy: Dead body.

Josh: Exactly. Whatever. Probably wouldn't be great for it. It would all seep.

Tommy: Yeah, true.

Josh: But the— Fuck that. Yeah, the bloody— the foam that comes with it is a pain in the ass. So what I want to do today is go to, um, Clark Rubber or something like that and get— take my Pelican case, take my camera, and I'm actually going to get foam and get the exact shape in. Gonna get a lens in.

Tommy: Don't think that qualifies for a fuck that, or you reassess a fuck that before it goes in. Okay, because it's like, it's a statement. It's like 'Josh, don't leave your passwords in your head. Fuck that.' So it's like a statement.

Josh: It needs to be tweetable. Oh, 'Thinking about going on the Monash Freeway this morning at 7 AM. Fuck that.

Tommy: Fuck that.' Yeah, but you weren't.

Josh: Yeah, I know. Okay, so it just needs to be— I get it though.

Tommy: I like it though. I think we can— we'll definitely Brings them up.

Josh: Dumb. Let's have a dumb purchases segment. I've been—

Tommy: No, we're talking too much about purchasing shit. I reckon the last 3 episodes you've mentioned OzBargain and buying stuff.

Josh: Have I really?

Tommy: Yeah, you have.

Josh: Maybe it's a bit of pushback on minimalism.

Tommy: You spend a week with the minimalist and you want to buy everything.

Josh: We're the Maximists, the show who dedicated to telling you all the bargains in the area and the shit that you need.

Tommy: Like maximum ideas within one show. Versus one thought.

Josh: How about this? Just on the minimalism, on that thing, on buying things. The reason I'm thinking about it is I think because I'm becoming way more aware of the things that I'm buying. So, what I'm looking at now is my fucking VoIP phone that I bought, like the, you know, like the big fucking phone right here. It's like so unnecessary. I so didn't— There would have been a much better solution. It's gotten to the point with the— It's like one of those, it looks like a landline.

Tommy: In an office.

Josh: Like one of those sort of Cisco style phones. But it's been driving me insane because look at the cord, you know, like the coiled cords on the phones, how they get all fucked and they just start getting all spaghetti-like.

Tommy: Why don't you get a portable? Like back in the day.

Josh: I was thinking, I, for whatever reason.

Tommy: See, that's a fuck that.

Josh: But fuck that. Okay. I'll tell you why. This is the most fucked up reason you'll ever hear. You're gonna think I'm a fuckwit. They had two options. There was a $29 and a $49 a month deal, if you want to call it that. The difference was the $49 has a coloured screen, a bigger screen. And I was like, oh, that'd be cool to have like the Full Stack Films logo. You'll notice that there's a TPG logo because it turns out that You can't customise the logo on the back. Fuck that. Fuck that. So that was a dumb.

Tommy: I heard this really great podcast, Tim Ferriss and Aubrey Marcus.

Josh: Who is he?

Tommy: Aubrey Marcus is— he started a supplements company called Onnit.

Josh: Oh yeah, Joe Rogan. Joe Rogan's all on it.

Tommy: He's a business partner of it. I think he's like the marketing department for it, meaning his show is just marketing.

Josh: I mean, you don't need a marketing director, right? It's just like, okay, we'll just have Joe on. They're huge about it.

Tommy: He's turned into like a 40, 50 person operation, gyms that they've created, products.

Josh: They out of Austin or something?

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: And he's, he's an interesting dude. So fascinating. He's in an open relationship. She's fully got a girlfriend, but they sleep with other people. And it sounds, that sounds sleazy, right? But when you hear him talk about it and her talk about it, not that I want to be within an open relationship, But the amount that it challenges their ego and their fucking internal shit, I can see you're sceptical about it.

Josh: No, I'm not skeptical, but I just think like the, yeah, it's, um, you've got an opinion.

Tommy: What's your opinion?

Josh: Oh no, I think like it's, you were having a stroke then or? No, I was just trying to gauge your interest in this whole open relationship thing.

Tommy: Okay. It sounds weird when I say it like that, but you listen to the, what goes through like these stages of when his partner went off and slept with somebody. And how that made him feel and how it challenges monogamous relationships, like straight, like how we think it is.

Josh: Does he think, is it different than swingers and shit like that?

Tommy: Yeah, totally different. So they're like, they're a committed relationship but have the, a different approach. And so this, it's, it's, it's really challenging. Like he's talking about how he was like vomiting and fucking crying the first time it happened. And like the challenge against him, like it sounds silly when I say it, cause I'm I'm not even there. Like, I don't want anything to do with an open relationship, just to be clear.

Josh: It just sounds very, very complicated. Like, it's just, just imagine the drama. You just have to watch like Married at First Sight.

Tommy: Yeah, but these people, like Aubrey is a fucking different specimen compared to these people in his mind.

Josh: Tim Ferriss is into all that. Is it like polygamy and shit like that? I get the vibe that he's always talking about It sounds like the relationships that he's had. Yeah. I don't know.

Tommy: It's a bit super interesting. Like, I see there's some like, oh, that sounds fucking— Yeah, right. You're an idiot. That's just been sleeping with everything.

Josh: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Tommy: But I did think that too, until you listen and hear. I think the best thing about podcasts and listening to these long-form conversations is you're legitimately giving chance to another view on this world. And an approach to life.

Josh: So, if you were to— So, you're identifying that's not for you. Yeah. Who is the open relationship for, do you think?

Tommy: Someone who's very fucking open-minded and willing to face a lot of pain. And I don't know who that is.

Josh: What's the benefit?

Tommy: I don't know. So, for him, he talks about this sort of, you know, he was married, I think, at one point or like engaged. And then the relationship fell apart. And you hear this guy's into psychedelics and fucking super spiritual, and he's a, he's a real, he seems really emotionally intelligent and in touch with, like, he cries a lot and he, you know, does, it's really super fascinating. But for him, it's like this exploration of challenging what everyone thinks. What are you smiling about and laughing about?

Josh: You know what, I'm smiling because, because you, you mentioned the word cuck and I feel like he's the definition of a cuck.

Tommy: No, but he's having sex with other women too.

Josh: Okay.

Tommy: Definition of cuck is a man who lets their— who— a man whose wife fucks other men in front of him, but he doesn't do that.

Josh: Okay, sure.

Tommy: And so the thing is, like, look at how you're reacting to this, right?

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: And I think that's the essence of what I like, is like seeing this challenge of what we grow up thinking. And I— and again, it's not for me because I couldn't face it. I would— I would— it would tear me to pieces.

Josh: But I think that the— I reckon there's a, uh, I don't know where I stand on the thing, like, you know, where it's like, uh, if you have, you know, um, I don't know whether this is a conservative propaganda, this idea, but it was, uh, have the idea of having an open, such an open mind that your brain falls out.

Tommy: Interesting. I haven't heard that.

Josh: Right. So I like the idea, like I do like listening to other opinions and thoughts. But there feels like there's also these moments where that can sometimes happen, right? Or it's, it's so, it's such a personal, like, I respect anyone who is going outside of the norm. They're challenging the status quo. But at the same, I don't know, there's, there's also, there's a lot of work in that, right? Like, so what I find interesting is It's like, you know, you see like subcultures like goths or emos, or you see them in like the adult world, like not the adult as in like porn world, but as in like just as adults. Yeah.

Tommy: Walking down Flinders Street.

Josh: It's just like, I do find some subcultures funny. Like, I just think that like it's— And because obviously it's really easy to attack anyone who's a naysayer or that disagrees, it's like, oh, you've got— such a fucking closed mind. You're just a skeptic. You're a little fucking brained idiot that's just like closed off and we're living this open, free life. And, but I think that there's probably a middle ground too. Yeah.

Tommy: And so, I think you have, you haven't heard this guy talk about it and I can't articulate how he communicates it. So, you listen to him and then you go.

Josh: I completely understand, but I reckon he's probably a really intelligent dude. And they've found a thing that's not only completely consensual, but something that they both want. And I don't even believe in the sort of common groupthink, which would be like, "Ah, I know that the chick says that she's okay with it, but she's probably not and just going along with it." Like, I don't believe in that. Like, but I also, I don't know, there's just something about the You know, I don't know if you've watched like Louis Theroux's done docos on this. Like this, I feel like I've consumed a little bit of content around this sort of stuff.

Tommy: I think the angles of the Louis Theroux are like completely people out of touch where like I've watched all of that stuff, all the ones that, you know, Weird Weekends and, and you're seeing these like, and the, it's in, it's skewed in a way that's sort of like this entertainment value from these quirky people where I think this guy gives it a different view.

Josh: Sure.

Tommy: A more insightful, like, he's not on a documentary.

Josh: But I think that also the consideration, isn't it interesting how the reason that you probably have more respect for him is because he's taken some cultural expectations in the sense of he's got money, he's got a business, he's got all of these things which we associate with you know, a good citizen or someone who's worth fucking listening to. Where if you completely just remove his status, maybe—

Tommy: It's true.

Josh: Maybe your opinion wouldn't be the same way. So, I think that what's happened, and this is like maybe why I smile or I sort of can be slightly sceptical about things, is it's like, yeah, there's lots of rich Weird cunts out there, right? And there's— And it's the same way that people think that just because Steve Jobs may have been an asshole to his employees or to certain people, that somehow them being an asshole will allow them to be a better fucking CEO or stuff like that. And I just think it's a similar thing where it's like, this is one part of this guy's life. But it's interesting how it's framed, right? Just think of it like, think about how you attached and associated with it. And if you just changed his storey 20%, what about if it wasn't a gym and it was a sex toy company, right?

Tommy: That he owned.

Josh: Yeah, that he owned.

Tommy: He had a marketing company for years and they marketed the Fleshlight.

Josh: Oh, really?

Tommy: Fake vagina that you play with.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: And that was his marketing company. That was like, gave him a big break. But it's interesting. I totally agree with you around it. The where, what, who's saying it and how much that helps you sway. But he's not actually encouraging it. He actually just says it works for me. And it's like, good luck for you doing it. Cause there's so many challenges. It's weird. And he, I think he's like into challenging the mind through like, you know, being a, um, you know, doing psychedelics and meditation, long-form meditation, all these crazy practises that just totally blows your head off.

Josh: I just think about the practicalities of it.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: So just imagine, like, I think that to be able to, you know, like we've spoken about, like, uh, emotional sustenance and things like that, and it's like, okay, well, if he's if I feel like I don't have the ability to be like, I just wouldn't have the fucking time to do something like that. Right.

Tommy: Um, emotional time, like it would drain, it would drain you. But he said that that's what it does. But so what happens with when you're challenged like that? So you're saying you don't have the time. It's like, I actually don't have, I don't know if I could get through that cause it would ruin me and make me feel like it's like, I remember being in relationships early days and just so drained because we're fighting. It's like, do you come out the other side stronger?

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: Does it strengthen you? Not in terms of that relationship because I'm not with her anymore, but do you— would it make you stronger? And I'm, and I'm again, I don't know if you've had it.

Josh: It's that whole friction thing, right? It is literally like what we've spoken a bit about, which is, uh, the, the little bit of pain that you get, is that actually developing you as a person? So, for me, it's like, I think it does. Like, Bri and my friction points are like, she's super tidy. I want to be super tidy, but I just like have habits where that don't necessarily lend themselves. And I've like, I'm noticing that that friction over the last 10 years has allowed me to change 10% maybe every year to the point where it's like I would do things I never would have done before. Like, you know, Bri was out a couple of nights ago and I was like, oh, you know what? I'm just going to spend the night cleaning the house. Cutie. But it's just like, but it's just like, I think, and I'm like, oh, this is good. Like, I actually enjoyed it. It was therapeutic. And it like, and I feel like I, breath through all that friction has actually fucking worn me down to the point where now I just fucking— but I feel better about it, right? And so I think that— and my mate Naysan talks about this all the time, about how he thinks in relationships now, in like, you know, 2018, people are too quick to fucking end things. They're like, it's too hard. Nah, like, I just— there's so much choice out there. I like this desire for perfect. So people are just fucking like moving from, you know, relationship to relationship with this idea that there can't be any friction.

Tommy: Yeah. Oh yeah, totally. I think it takes a lot of effort, any relationship. So, and you— and I think, yeah, there's definitely been friction points for Amy and I. Differences in who we are and what we value. And then I definitely have become more tidy because she values that. Yeah, putting the seat down, you know, lighting a fucking candle once it's, uh, so respectful. Or Aubrey, he also talked about anger, which resonated with me.

Josh: Yeah, I don't think you're that much of an angry dude. Even Bri said you're a softie last night, which I told you, which I don't know if you see that as a compliment or not.

Tommy: She also called me a cuck, but she didn't know what a cuck meant.

Josh: Yeah, I know.

Tommy: She thought it was a—

Josh: what was it? Just like a bit of a cool dude. Yeah, you got that one wrong.

Tommy: But Aubrey talked about angry— anger, and he was talking about how much anger he had in him as a kid and shit going on with his family. And like, something really resonated me with in me was what he— when he said there's something about getting angry that is satisfying. It's the— you feel it coming on and you go towards it.

Josh: And you go, yeah, it's almost this thing of like, it's the same feeling that you get when— it's the dopamine, I'm sure, right? It's the same effect of like there is a block of chocolate And it is in that moment where you open it and you make the decision, I'm gonna eat the whole fucking thing.

Tommy: Yeah, I mean, what I thought about it was from when I was young, like being defensive.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: Or being blamed for something.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: Or being attacked. And then I, you know, in primary school, teachers and, and, um, and just having that, having that anger come up and it felt almost good upon reflecting on it. It's like it was disturbing, but I felt kind of like you win bringing that anger into it.

Josh: It's like a defence mechanism, right?

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: Like I think, and I notice that even, you know, in situations where I'm unhappy with something, you can go down two paths. You can drop the wall and you can say, actually, I'm going to let this sit with me and try and understand it, or I am going to You know, fucking meet them with whatever emotion that is, anger, and it will probably provide some short-term reflection, deflection, but it probably doesn't lead to like long-term happiness. It's like Lewis Howes, who has a podcast, gone blank on that. What's his podcast called? It's a businessy one. School of Greatness. Yeah, School of Greatness.

Tommy: Hey, it's Lewis Howes, uh, quarterback.

Josh: Yeah, exactly.

Tommy: Once was a quarterback, didn't make it. He's a very good guy who sells motivation. I actually like him. Yeah, he's a dude I contacted years ago, really, when I was in Shepparton. This is before he kind of blew up. He was on the Ellen Show. I messaged him and I said, um, I may have been listening to your stuff, I've quit my job. Who did you do that to? Seth Godin. It was basically— I should find it.

Josh: Yes. Yes. Can you do that now, please?

Tommy: Yes.

Josh: So, while you do that, Lewis Howes has a book which is like the— I think it's like the Seven Masks of Masculinity or something like that. I tried to go to the bookshop the other day, but they didn't fucking have it.

Tommy: Oh, no. Found it.

Josh: Found it. Oh, yes. All right. Before you do that, let me just— The Masks of Masculinity. I'm just seeing if there's a— No. A blurb. No, just type in The Masks of Masculinity. I was hoping that there would just be a list that I could— Because he's basically gone through and identified these things that we do. Okay, here we go. Lewis Howes, he's made it. Okay. That's— It's funny how Google does this now. They actually pulled it in for me. Look.

Tommy: Yeah, I just read those briefly.

Josh: The stoic mask, the athlete mask, the material mask, the sexual mask, the aggression mask, the joker mask, the invincible mask, the know-it-all mask. I feel like I'm a joker mask and know-it-all mask. I think I'm like Always making fun of every situation. Yeah. But also being like, yeah, I know what, like, what are you?

Tommy: Get the good info here. Fuck, I don't know. What am I?

Josh: I think you're the aggression mask and the invincible mask.

Tommy: You just said I wasn't aggre— You said I wasn't angry.

Josh: No, but I think it like, it's a tool which you actually use.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: I don't think it's you, but I think it's a mask that you wear when you have to, to to, you know, and I think the invincible one, do you know where the invincible one comes in? Mate, I'm just wired this way. I'm fucking like, if it's wired this way, like that to me, I've always, I've never heard anyone else say it. And it's one of those things that you've always said, which is, mate, I'm just fucking wired this way.

Tommy: And then you use it as a joke. So what do you think about it? Cause I have never asked you, even when I'm like, fuck off, Mark.

Josh: No, well, I think that I've always seen it as it's like, I've always identified it as, um, it's a thought that you have that has no fact. Because this idea of wiring is a storey which we're telling ourselves. I could say, man, I'm fucking just wired to be creative, or I'm wired to fucking go out, like, to walk, right? That's really lame. Or just, I'm like wired to fucking I come out fucking wired to be a people person. And these are fucking storeys that we tell, which is really fucking helpful when you're at a crossroads.

Tommy: So, you don't think that I am wired to look at a positive in situations, in any situation? So, it's my go-to. So, the wiring is something happens, I immediately jump to the positive of it. What can I look at here? Is that not wiring? Is that learnt behaviour?

Josh: Yeah, I think that that is a habit which you have created, which is a mindset thing. And using this language of I'm wired to do this is a great way to, to keep yourself on track. It's like the, the muse, right? A muse, I don't know, like I remember a TED Talk about, I can't remember who it was that did it, it wasn't Brené Brown, it was a big TED Talk where they were talking about muses and it's like this, you know, a creative muse. What they talked about in, I think fucking the ye olde days in Greece, a muse wasn't something that you had, it was something that visited you. And the point being that you detach it from your ego, you detach it from yourself. So you can't, you're not, if you have a fucking creative block, it's not, I can't do it, I'm not working out. It's like the muse hasn't visited me. I haven't been visited by the muse. And so you detach it. And so then what it means is when you have great fucking creative flow, you're thankful and grateful of the muse coming to you and you're not attaching yourself to it. But likewise, when you're fucking stuck, it's not all on you. It's the muse. But we've got to get to this Lewis Howes fucking email. I'm very keen to hear what you said. Give us a date.

Tommy: The 2nd of the 12th, coming to the end of the year.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: 2014.

Josh: Great.

Tommy: Feeling like, ah, I'm sick of being in this place.

Josh: This is awesome.

Tommy: Yeah, it was the— I haven't read it. Can you read it?

Josh: Yes. Did he ever write back?

Tommy: Yeah, he wrote back.

Josh: Okay, great. Yeah, this is early days. Like, I would have— Lewis Howes would have only been on my radar in the last 2 years.

Tommy: Yeah, and this is— he's got 1.3 million followers now. I reckon he had 120 when I messaged him.

Josh: Yeah, um, he's had some great, uh, people on his podcast. Hey dude, this is from Tommy at 3:07 PM. So he's just, um, his blood sugar's low. Feeling a bit down. Hey, dude, just want to send some appreciation all the way from Victoria, Australia. Couldn't say Melbourne because he was living in Shepparton.

Tommy: Well, read. Read on.

Josh: I work on a breakfast radio show a few hours outside of Melbourne where I grew up. I've been smashing your podcasts on my weekend drives back to work and really enjoying them. What's resonated with me lately has been your approach to living a life on your own terms, having the power to make shit happen and change it if you aren't where you want to be. Saying that, I handed in my resignation this week and already I've had some great opportunities come up for bigger and better work. Keep killing it, dude. Cheers, Tommy. And Lewis says, thanks so much, Tommy. I appreciate you for listening, my man.

Tommy: It sounds like he would write that. It sounds like he says my man all the time.

Josh: 100% right there.

Tommy: I actually don't listen to his podcast anymore.

Josh: He took, uh, only an hour and 20 minutes to respond. It's pretty cool. It's great.

Tommy: Um, it's so funny. I don't even remember that, like, hearing those words doesn't feel like me. I wonder why.

Josh: Isn't it interesting? Because I feel the exact same way, which is why, like, when you're in a state of heightened sort of emotion, yeah, don't fucking post on social media, right? Because I think that we We're not necessarily— we aren't this. I think we like to think of ourselves as this like one sort of dimensional person that's like really easily sort of produced on social media. But I think we have ups and downs and shit like that. What do you think you were trying to get out of that?

Tommy: Nothing. I think you listen to people and, well, I do definitely. And I feel like there's— I think it's the— it's showing you right there what a podcast can do for somebody. Long-form podcast where someone's sharing information that's helping change someone's view on something or, you know, encouraging them to take that step. It's like you hear enough, and it's not with everyone, but I think you come across people on your path that resonate and are at the right point in time that just spur you to make that change. And for me, I was like in this mindset of like unhappy living in Shepparton working on the radio, and I just knew there was, you know, Amy was living in Sydney, and so I just, I needed some, a massive change, and the podcast, you know, of his helped me just, you know, like, it's almost like serendipity, but you almost drawn to the thing that is going to help you make that change that, you know, you're going to do or want. And so his words are just literally my mind articulated in spoken word. And that's exactly what it was. And I think that's why I was like, fuck, man, this dude's killing it.

Josh: What was the— what was your resignation like at Shepparton? Describe what was the— how long were you thinking about it? What was the— did you write the letter? How did it all go down? Who did you hand it in to?

Tommy: Um, I, I handed it in to the boss, but I told my co-host before, Stacy. Yeah, I was like, I'm out of here. And she didn't want to be there.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: And you know, we both didn't want to be there and I was like, oh, I'm out. And so I don't even know if I, I just went in and told her.

Josh: Was it impulsive? Was it obviously something you had in your mind, but was the actual day of doing it like, nah, fuck it, this is the day? Or was it like 3 weeks earlier, you're like, I am going to quit on this day because it's the end of this.

Tommy: Yeah, I knew for ages. I knew for ages that I'd internally— On the day? No, no, no. I'd internally known that I was going to hand it in. So I was like, I'm done. And so it made me feel like I was getting through it more.

Josh: So what was the— I always find that interesting. Was there like a catalyst? Was there an extra shit day where you're like—

Tommy: What date's that? So that email to him was on—

Josh: The 2nd.

Tommy: The 2nd. I think I needed to give sufficient amount of notice going into the holidays. So I gave them that in the lead-up to, because I didn't want to come back for the new year.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: And so, yeah, I gave them enough time to then go into the end of year and then not me not come back the next year, which was perfect because then it gave them all those, the break to find somebody. Yeah, so I was per— I timed it well because I didn't want to have to come back and start some new year and then fuck off.

Josh: Because every job that I had, I knew that I was like of going to leave, but it was always like fairly impulsive. So it was always like, I'm fucking, I'm going to be out of here in the next 6 months, I reckon. And then I just have a day where I'm like, that's dangerous.

Tommy: I've seen you do it. Yeah. I've seen you fucking do it. We don't need to go into when you did it.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: But you're severing the tie.

Josh: Yeah. Yeah.

Tommy: I just, I know, but maybe it's, um, I don't know, maybe it's the right approach for you.

Josh: Yeah. Yeah, actually. Yeah. I remember that.

Tommy: But maybe it's not.

Josh: So I mean, having a bit of a, um, I mean, so there's an impulse. Yeah. So there's definitely a plan, but I think that I've always like, I've strategized it. I think there's something in the power.

Tommy: I've been a loose cat.

Josh: No, I think there's a little bit of that, but I think that it's, um, there's an impact, right? Where it's like, if there's what I am or what has happened every time where it's like I have a reason for leaving. Yeah. I have the opportunity, like what would, I guess, what most people would do with on whatever day they've got their new job or whatever it is, they've found a point where they're ready to make the jump and then they say, hey, this, this has been happening or this is why I haven't been happy with for the last like X amount of time. So, that's why I'm leaving. My approach has been like these things have happened and I'm like, if this happens again, this is, that is my trigger point to be able to finish it up. And it's, I think that I personally think that it has some more effectiveness to it because normally in those moments there's a decision to be made. So, to move forward, there needs to be a hard conversation. And out of respect, sometimes I think it's like, you know what, like I'm going to make this hard conversation a different conversation because we don't need to actually work out how we're going to do it better next time. Because there isn't going to be a next time. I'm the fuck— I'm fucking out of here.

Tommy: I think there is definitely— that's the way you deal with it, right?

Josh: Am I wearing a mask?

Tommy: I think it definitely is because it's like, it's like the person who wants to break up with somebody and severs the relationship by doing something that they shouldn't do.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: If you know what I mean. And then it's like, well, I got no option. Catch you later.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: But so it's like you build this up. However, you could have that. You could go, the hard conversation is coming and it's on Monday and I just do it then.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: And I, and I'm cool about it. So it's a different energy that comes and I don't think one's right or wrong. It hasn't not worked for you. It's, it's done exactly what you needed it to do.

Josh: Yeah. It's always like, I, um, it always means that it's, it's going towards confrontation though as well. Like it's always, it's never—

Tommy: I know the energy in those moments.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: You can, you can feel it.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: So the other one can be, 'Look, I'm, um, I'm actually gonna finish up.' Yeah. 'I've decided to take the leap.' Yeah. And have them go, 'Oh, that's fucking awesome.' And because that's what they did, and they were really nice about it.

Josh: And the thing is that for the most part, it normally, it happens. The people, it's all a respect thing, right? So the people who I respect always get like that sort of, 'I'm doing this you know, this is what's, you know, I'll let them know. I'll talk like my, like, yeah, previous roles where I've had like really close friends who are high up in the company. I'm like, hey man, like, this is how I'm feeling, just so you know, when I have my, um, big exit blow up. Like, just know it's all fine. But it's, um, what were you, you know, you've had a few, you know, just given the fact of you haven't had crazy long-term rela— I've obviously been in a long-term relationship for 10 years. How have your breakups normally gone?

Tommy: Yeah, definitely edging towards what you say.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: Not that I'd gone and done anything that I shouldn't have, but I definitely feel like you start, you know, it's fucked and you just like, it's imploding. Yeah. And you're just being a bit toxic and then it ends. Because it's sort of like severed and like it comes to a point where it's like, I'm done. But I think there is ego in like the job thing, like ending it. It's like, now I'm fucking walking out here, they're gonna, they're gonna not know what they lost, can't replace me. Yeah, but the— you fucking will get replaced because that's how business runs.

Josh: Well, I think the thing, and I've definitely— that has never really been the angle for mine.

Tommy: It's just been like, as if you haven't thought it though, they're not find someone.

Josh: Well, I think the thing is, it's like, I'm not like, uh, this isn't the path for me. Like, it's always been very sort of, uh, internal in that approach. It's like, what do I want of my life versus— because especially like, you think about radio. When I finished up at, uh, Fox, they fucking had— I had, no joke, people creating, uh, a hashtag to try and get my job. Like, people created a Twitter hashtag being like, oh, I want to be the new, you know, web guy. Like, people do that shit. And so, and you feel that in radio. You know that you're only like one step away from someone else just taking over. And they'll just— because you are literally— and this was the reason that I left radio, was, um, Seth Godin would talk about this all the time. It's the cog in the machine. You are literally— you you are this perfectly— this perfect cog that can then be replaced. You have certain qualities, and there's so many people. Think about how many regional radio stations there are in Australia. You would— they could just fucking move them around.

Tommy: Yeah, but I think, yeah, I definitely felt like those are times where my ego's been spiked. But yes, I think what I thought then, you saying that, if you're that reflective on it's not the path for me, don't blow up. Be the bigger man. Have the hard conversation.

Josh: I don't know. Do you think like the, what you're referring to, do you think that was a, that wasn't really a blowup though?

Tommy: I think there's definitely a emotional response.

Josh: There was an energy, but it was also being met with other people's energy. Right.

Tommy: I think it's a time and place, right? I think it's severing it later. I think just in the moment where you're calm, will bring a different approach to it. Yeah, sure. Cause it, it does bring the same, like it will be no doubt blowing up. Cause when I say blow it, you're not going, fuck you, I'm out.

Josh: No, it's literally been like, it's actually really calm.

Tommy: Like, but I think the energy isn't calm.

Josh: Yeah. Well, the blow up is, hey guys, I know we're having this conversation, but we don't need to have this conversation anymore. We're done because we're done. Yeah.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: I think so. What you're saying is You're verbally, you're being calm.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: But everything else, the communication around everything else is not.

Josh: Yeah. So it's like lighting the fire, but I'm doing it really just walking around, just slowly throwing the matches around rather than the big bang. I get it. But just very quickly, I'm fucking fascinated with the breakup stuff. If you were to tell people this is how Like if it's Tommy's lessons for breakups, what would be some of the, like, what are all the lessons that you've learned over the years of breakups?

Tommy: Listen to yourself. Like if you truly, I think it's in anything, if you're connecting to how you're actually feeling and what you're really thinking and what you really know is the right thing, and that being ending this relationship and going through the pain. Cause I think with relationships and I felt it, I know the pain ahead, even though I didn't want to be in the relationship. Going from being with somebody every day, sleeping next to them every day, to having nothing, that's fucking hard.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: But what's harder is being in a toxic relationship and what that will do to your mind and your body internally. It's like, makes you feel so tired and just yuck. So I hope that, I think, I hope that helps. Hang on, I'm getting a call from Amy. Alright, we're going to wrap this up.

Josh: It's The Daily Talk Show, everyone. Remember, it's episode 48. You can please leave a review on iTunes, on the podcast app. We really appreciate—

Tommy: Yeah, we got a new one from Neil.

Josh: Yeah, thank you, Neil.

Tommy: That was really lovely. Thanks, mate.

Josh: Thanks so much for that. And remember, send us an email to hi@thedailytalkshow.com. We'll see you tomorrow.

Tommy: Bye.