Graffiti and gangs

Tommy: The Daily Talk Show.

Josh: Hi everyone, it is episode 46.

Tommy: Yeah, I— and as you said that, I just realised that I forgot to bring from the office the package that Michelle sent us. Oh yeah, from London.

Josh: Oh, that's annoying. It's— mate, remember what she said in the letter? She's not from fucking London.

Tommy: Oh well, outside London. Yeah, but you know, my cousin lives in London. We live— but he doesn't, he lives in Middlesex, which is fucking 45 minutes on a train. Out of London.

Josh: Middlesex, is that the best part of the sex?

Tommy: But it's like saying I live in Melbourne, but you're in Pakenham. You're not fucking in Melbourne, you're outside of Melbourne. But you wouldn't bother saying if someone asks. I don't know, I'm trying to be international here, Josh.

Josh: No, I like it, it's very good.

Tommy: But we did get our first PO box, uh, gift.

Josh: Is that how you say it? First PO box?

Tommy: First fan mail?

Josh: We got a package, we got a listener. I don't Let's, uh, fans, not listeners. No, uh, no, they're a listener. They're a listener.

Tommy: Yeah, a friend of the show.

Josh: Yeah, let's call it a friend of the show.

Tommy: Michelle, we loved it. We got 2 books.

Josh: And thank you, Michelle. Great. I appreciate it. Yeah, loved the letter.

Tommy: So send anything through.

Josh: Yeah, I love that. That was the last thing. Send more.

Tommy: It's like, send more chocolate, preferably.

Josh: Tommy, I got your birthday present. Oh, thank you so much. Can you send more?

Tommy: I'm just going to tell you, I've now got something. I'm using your PO box for deliveries now.

Josh: Can I guess what it is? Is it the Frame.io t-shirt? They're getting my one delivered too. So, we're on a— We both use a subscription service which allows clients to be able to annotate on videos to provide feedback. Yeah, yeah. And I had the paid version for a little bit and you've just upgraded to the paid version.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: And I gave you a link. I said, use this link. Because if you do, we both get a free t-shirt. Yeah. And I— Which one did you get? I got the Fade to Black. Yeah, it's that. Fuck. What size did you get?

Tommy: I got medium.

Josh: Oh, yours is going to run a bit tighter than mine. No, it's good.

Tommy: Mediums, it depends.

Josh: I mean, if you've got no fat, like, who gives a fuck? You know what I mean? Like a medium on someone who looks good is great.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: Just a news bit of news for people. I just saw a, um, on Facebook this morning that essential oils can, uh, give you man boobs.

Tommy: What do you mean?

Josh: Well, that's all I didn't—

Tommy: just read the headline. Yeah, you know what, just reading the headline.

Josh: I'm glad that I don't use essential oils. But that's— so no, don't do soy milk or essential oils.

Tommy: You don't want to be a soy boy or essential oil. So they're saying obviously the How you get man boobs is estrogen, increased production of estrogen, which usually causes man boobs.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: Which is what they say soy milk does. You gotta be drinking a shitload of it. It's like the chilli up in your, um, you know, chilli ups your, uh, I think it's a chilli up, yeah, you know, chilli ups your metabolism, but it's so minute you'd have to eat too many chilies. But it's like adds to it. So my point is you'd have to drink so much soy milk to become—

Josh: yeah, soy, but I just don't want the risk.

Tommy: I said that for Campton.

Josh: Soy boy, he'll enjoy that. What's been going on, mate?

Tommy: There is ever-increasing graffiti going up around Melbourne. And like, when I was— did you notice this? You probably didn't. You know how we were on different wavelengths in terms of what we're seeing in our worlds because of —what, being a part of—

Josh: I wear glasses, I think is what you're trying to say.

Tommy: No, I'm just saying I used to sort of dabble, be into graffiti when I was younger, and so I noticed a lot of it. I appreciate tagging, tags and pieces. What did I write? It's just like a bunch of different stuff. Bader, B-A-D-E-R. I've got a really— you might see in some of my videos my friend who took his life made me, and it's the last thing I feel like it's, it's a thing and I'm sentimental about it, but it's a piece of paper that he used a pen to draw and write and do a little piece for me and says, "For my boy." It's like so fucking nice to have that. Yeah. So, I've got it up. It's like any of my videos on my YouTube channel, you can sort of see it on the wall in the back.

Josh: Oh, that's cool. And it was a stencil that he would—

Tommy: No, he just freestyle. Okay, great. But I've been seeing Like people writing company names and it's probably not guerrilla marketing, but some person writes Uber everywhere and every time I see it I'm like, oh fuck, Uber. That's funny. 13 Cabs.

Josh: 13 Cabs is good. Someone's been writing 13 Cabs. That's a funny— I wonder if 13 Cabs can get in trouble for that. Well, guerrilla marketing, right?

Tommy: I mean, I was thinking, imagine if you paid some to— you can't.

Josh: I had one fucker, Jacob, uh, from Humdrum. He, uh, I gave him—

Tommy: Another filmmaker.

Josh: Yeah, I gave him some Full Stack Film stickers. Yeah. I was walking with a client a few weeks later and the client goes, hey, what's— is that— isn't that your logo? Jacob had put the fucking logo on a stop sign down in Collingwood, like a kilometre away from my office.

Tommy: On the front of the stop sign?

Josh: Oh yeah, on the right-hand— On the no standing sign. Yeah. Okay. So, I look like a fucking parasite. They actually classify—

Tommy: That would be graffiti. It is graffiti. Because a lot of taggers or graffiti artists— Are just doing stickers now.

Josh: Oh, well, they did.

Tommy: I know, I remember it was even popular back in the day when I was growing up and they would just either get like blank ones, write a tag onto it and then go around the city putting them up.

Josh: What's the appeal? What was the appeal for you when you would—

Tommy: So, I knew some really big, well-known taggers.

Josh: What is that? What do you— So, you're not referring to like well-known graffiti artists who are doing like really gradients and like fucking spray can, like—

Tommy: So, there's— They go between, right? So, there's— But taggers. There's taggers that became really big, but then there was also, I guess what you'd call artists, more muralists. That also became really big but also tagged.

Josh: And what was the— with the tag, what would make a good quality tag?

Tommy: Oh, there was styles and yeah, there's like definitely— I can't really explain it, but there is better tags than other tags. But quantity of your tag being around the city, it became like, you know, it's all about notoriety. Who knows of this? And then there was like, for me as a young kid, Used to ride the trains and see all the tags and was thinking like, oh, who's that guy? And then you'd hear storeys about, oh, you know, 17. Instagram accounts. So now there's a guy named— his tag was Break. Stusso. Yeah. So this is how I actually got onto—

Josh: really, Stusso gets into the graffiti scene. He's fucking all over that shit.

Tommy: So there was a guy when I was growing up, his tag was Break, B-R-E-A-K, and he would be everywhere. He did tags, but he also did murals. Yeah. And he was absolutely everywhere. I found him through Stusso's Page. Yeah, because he'd taken a photo of him and he got, he got, he got— I was talking to another guy, um, another artist from the art gallery next to my studio this week, and he was telling me about Brake. He punched out a person in the train yard, a female police officer, and went to jail for 6 months.

Josh: He probably would for doing that.

Tommy: No, no, yeah, of course. He had all these other charges. But this is a dude who's so passionate about writing a word that goes to jail. So, my point is it's like so much more than just writing a word.

Josh: These dudes think and feel. Like is— What, like I think that when I was a kid being in the SRC or school captain, these things were— This was on our fucking agenda, dealing with the graffiti. And there was a huge— I remember pushing really hard for Sue Pedalston, the principal, to install security cameras because I was just fed up with it.

Tommy: Did you call her pedo? Sue Pedalston?

Josh: Pedo? I'm sure she got a bit of that gear. But do you think, like, what sort of person is doing it? Are they just a bit sort of—

Tommy: It's a world. So, I wasn't going to mention it, The Minimalists. That's a world to be in, right? You've seen it. There's almost like fandom around them.

Josh: It's a subculture.

Tommy: It's a subculture. And so, Graffiti is a subculture that I knew. A guy who got held up at machete point, knife point, by another guy who— it was his train yard. He doesn't fucking own it, he just graffitis in the train yard on the side of trains. But this guy I knew was there to do graffiti on the trains, and he said, you're not fucking coming in my yard. So they claim ownership over train yards.

Josh: It's crazy. How fun's that? My old office had some tagging done. It was just shit, just like a big fucking like junkies BP. Yeah, is it like—

Tommy: I think there is a lot of graffiti around Collingwood where I'm pretty sure kids are off their face just squirting garbage on the walls.

Josh: I saw when I was in that office, I was just sort of Uh, my desk used to sort of look towards this sort of like fogged out glass that was sort of up a bit higher. And, uh, I just see this arm go up and then they've got like a fucking permanent marker and they start fucking tagging it. What was your response? So I was like, what do I do? So I just ran over and it was next to a door which we never had fucking access to and just fucking rattled the door a little bit and they ran out. Run away. But, um, it's also— you think about it, it's pretty low.

Tommy: It's a low-level crime, massively. But they are— I saw what I was getting at before was Auckland, fuck all graffiti in Auckland. Yeah, in comparison to Melbourne. Melbourne is known for like one of the biggest street art scenes.

Josh: Well, uh, uh, Ryan Nicodemus from the Millmouse, we went around and we're sort of exploring, and he said it reminded him of Berlin.

Tommy: Yeah. So, Rekka, the artist who's got a show on in the art gallery next to my office, he lives in Berlin, and he lived there because of the art scene. It's huge over there. But I think it's like, I appreciate some of the tags even though they're just like mess on a wall, and some people would be like, that's just fucking gross. Yeah, it's annoying and gross.

Josh: But I'm actually enjoying, like, as you talk about it. Yeah. There's a bit of me which is like, oh, this could be fun.

Tommy: Well, I used to sit on the train looking out the window at the graffiti all down the train tracks. And I remember at night there was times that we would like just walk the train tracks, like from, we walked from—

Josh: Did you ever do the train riding where you jump on the back, whatever that's called? Yeah, back on. What's that called?

Tommy: It's, they call it— Back on? It's called a back on. And you'd, the back of the train, you'd literally jump onto the back of the train and hold on.

Josh: And you've done that? Yeah, I have. What train line? Sandringham. Was it, were you scared shitless?

Tommy: Yeah, I mean, it's one of those things I felt like it wasn't that unsafe. I'm on a, like, on this big bit holding on pretty tight.

Josh: Yeah, as long as you hold on, right?

Tommy: But you fucked if you fell off. Like, I think about that, I think about my son doing it.

Josh: I'm like— I mean, he can't, he can only just start walking.

Tommy: Well, the good thing is trains nowadays have lost the back of them that was more— So, now they're less conducive to even be able to hold on to anything there. So, they've sort of shaped them in a way that the connector for when the trains come together isn't like the old one. I remember once I ran up, so we went up to— So, you'd hide like underneath the station. Yeah. And I would go up at the back of the train and we jumped up onto the back. And I got the fucking fright of my life. The train horn in the back just went, oh, just rattled my brain. There was a guy in the back, so there was like—

Josh: I said, he saw you?

Tommy: He saw me, he saw us, and then he pressed it and we fucking jumped off and shit ourselves and ran away. Just reminded me, so remember the guy that I was— the people that would hold up people, you can't come in our train yet? These same people used to get the key and it used to be called— So, there's all this terminology. It was called like the guardi. The guardi. What was that? What's that stand for?

Josh: The guardi. It would be like the guards, like the security guards.

Tommy: They were referring to the back of the train. So, where like almost the like where you sit to drive the train. Yeah. But at the back. Okay. They'd call it the guardi. We've got the guardi key. So, some of these dudes had the key to get in. Through the train carriage into the bit where you drive the train.

Josh: What would they do with it?

Tommy: So, because the back of the train has the front of the train, so it's just like, you know, it's not doing a U-turn, it just goes to the end of the line. Yeah. The driver gets out, walks to the end and jumps in the front again. So, then drives back the other way. So, one's always empty. And so, people would get in there and put their tag up on the blind that you'd pull down. And so, it was like, it was notable to get your tag on that blind.

Josh: Would you— Did you ever get any really good spots?

Tommy: The Gardie with some people that had a key once when I was just out on the trail. I never tagged on the back of like on the blind. But we used to come to Smith Street to get, it was like the only, one of the only locations you could come to get permanent ink, this special type of ink. What do you mean?

Josh: Like Officeworks style?

Tommy: Like there was a newsagents. That would sell specific ink that was called blacktop ink.

Josh: And would you like paint it on?

Tommy: No, so you'd get markers and you'd fill up your marker with it. Could you just not buy a marker with it?

Josh: Would it be expensive?

Tommy: No, they never put that ink, so it was like pad ink. Oh, so it was like for stamps and shit. But these kids, like, kids are so fucking nifty, they worked out that this ink was like you'd write it on and it just wouldn't come off. You'd wipe it off and then there's like this sort of blue mark. Like, it's the subculture runs so deep, dude. It's like, and I—

Josh: I'm gonna ask Stu So, about this because Stu So— Send this episode to him. Yeah, he was even getting, um, he showed, he posted a photo of guys up at the top of the, um, Nylex Sign. Yeah. And there was heaps of graffiti. Guys were getting into it, obviously, up there.

Tommy: So, abandoned buildings is like where it's at for doing graffiti.

Josh: So, the question that I have about it is I was wondering, I was driving along the other day, I saw this like white van. I'm like, why aren't we seeing more graffiti on cars?

Tommy: I heard storeys of people like throwing that blacktop ink into a convertible before. I know it was never firsthand story, so yeah, might have been bullshit. But you're right, I don't know. You see, here's the thing, right? You could think, listen, maybe, yeah, you could listen to me about me doing graffiti back in the day, but like, you fucking disrespectful little shit. Yeah, but people within the subculture like literally have rules. Yeah, what are some of the rules? Well, don't spray paint a car. Yeah, you fucking idiot.

Josh: Yeah, yeah, but it's like them Don't spray paint a wall. Nah, wall's free, mate. Yeah, you fucking idiot. So, wall— so there's also stuff about tagging on other people's graffiti. Yeah, you can't—

Tommy: what do you call it? What's it— what do they call it? Um, cap. So it was like, don't fucking cap my piece. Really? Don't cap my piece.

Josh: Because I saw that a couple of times walking around today, like beautiful murals. Yeah, they had some fucking idiot that is written, ruin it. Yeah.

Tommy: So there was literally fear from getting bashed by the older guys. Yeah, in the gangs. And is it a gang? Like, some of them were pretty hard, like, like more violent than others. There was a few. There was a gang called TSF, which is still around, and there's— I heard there's one guy in it now that the, the rumour is, because I sort of still have connections to these areas is like, oh no, you don't fuck with that dude. His brother's like a full-blown jail dude, jailbird. And he's, um—

Josh: So what's the difference between like bikies and gangs, do you think?

Tommy: Well, bikies would laugh probably at graffiti gangs. Yeah, because they're legit organisations that—

Josh: And bikies aren't criminals. Bikers aren't criminals. There's a difference between bikers and bikies, isn't there? Bikers you'll see on the Great Ocean Road with their little headsets. That will be me one day.

Tommy: Touring. Yeah, bike, bikie gangs. So, the Comancheros and, um—

Josh: Can you not name any? That's making me uncomfortable. No, but they're fine. You can. Okay, great. Bandidos. They're on the Yellow Pages.

Tommy: They're actually kind of like the Mongols. It's like talking about the gangs in New Zealand that are famous, the Mongrel Mob. It's like, they're just facts that these are around, right? And I'm not saying they're criminals. They've, like, a lot of them have legit businesses.

Josh: I'm not support them either the way that you do. They're legitimate.

Tommy: Josh, I'm just about to ask you, do you want to join?

Josh: No, I actually— How about this? When I was a kid, when I was, uh, would be year 11, I was doing music industry and my teacher— I didn't do any of my classwork and he was in a, uh, cover band, a Queen cover band. Yeah. And he was Freddie Mercury in the band. And he said that if I went to film him at Musicland in the western suburbs, he had a gig on, if I filmed it, that he would pass me because he would count those like industry experience. So, he picked Bri and I up, I think about 11 PM for like after midnight show. How old were we? 16, 17. And then the best part was he then had another gig like a couple of weeks later that was at a bikie gang. And that was where Mum's like, Mum's like, yeah, you can't go to— you're not going to the club.

Tommy: I'm intrigued by bikies. Yeah. I was sitting next to some Bandidos.

Josh: How do you know that they're Bandidos?

Tommy: Oh, dude, then this is why I'm talking about it, because they rock up, they're on their bikes, park them on the pavement, and they've— they're patched, so they've got their like, um, is it like their jacket that has Bandidos? And they've all got to have Harley-Davidsons or no? Not specifically. But there was a prospect, which was like a bikie in the making before they're fully patched. So have you watched Sons of Anarchy? No. Fuck, if you watch— have you been into any of this gang stuff?

Josh: Like, because I think it's sort of— it's a little bit childish. It's a little bit— so now you've mentioned them all, they can— but it's just all like, there's, um, something a bit sad about it.

Tommy: But so there's, other than the bikie gangs, because there are some that are a lot less active within criminal, you know, criminal activity.

Josh: What is one on like the low end?

Tommy: Uh, I think the Outlaws aren't that prolific in crime. And they've even got Outlaws in there? One of my mate's dads was the president, so they're at the top of the Outlaws.

Josh: And they were pretty tame.

Tommy: Yeah, they're tame. They— yeah, I— well, I think they still had some things going on, clubhouses getting raided, but like the ones at the top, the— you can just look in the paper, you'll find like, um, the Mongols and stuff like that. They're some pretty hefty ones. But man, like in terms— like talking about graffiti in the subcultures, like these, like, um, the Gypsy Jokers and the Banditas, these are all, uh, the— what's the The Rebels, and there's another one. These all come from international, so they started like scattered around America. Yeah. And they work their way out. Like the Mongols have clubs in Thailand and have clubs in Melbourne and fucking Singapore.

Josh: I think they probably get into like the human trafficking and shit like that.

Tommy: I mean, not the— I know if I went to high school with a few dudes who were bikies now, full face tattooed.

Josh: And where does the money go?

Tommy: I don't know. So this is— that's why I'm so intrigued, because you—

Josh: from the outside, we probably couldn't make a doco on it, could we? Because there's already been— yeah, sure, of course.

Tommy: I'd love to have a bikie on this and talk to them about this stuff, but what I'd worry about is they might just say, well, now you're gonna start paying us $500 a week because you had us on the show. I don't know, you just never know. But I, I'd love—

Josh: like, is that the sort of shit that happens?

Tommy: Well, gangs have always been known to sort of like give protection and the protection's not needed. They just offer the protection, you gotta pay now.

Josh: Fuck. You know, when I was in Port Melbourne, uh, Comancheros in Port Melbourne. Yeah. And we were, I think, uh, we used to live on Knott Street and, uh, bang, bang, bang one morning. And I look outside on the balcony, there's a big fucking SWAT van, like a big SWAT, like a, not a van, it's like one of those like heavy artillery fucking vehicles and they're like over the speaker like, "Do you come out?" Blah, blah, blah. Shit. Yeah, fucking crazy. And I ended up, I was on Triple M News.

Tommy: Of course you were, out on the balcony.

Josh: Just doing it. What's it with me and balconies and telling stories?

Tommy: Did you not think that you're about to comment about a gang of bikies?

Josh: It was all very low-level stuff. All I said was, "Yeah, I heard the noise in the morning, it woke me up." Visit my Facebook page. But, um, no, that was, that was interesting. That this shit doesn't— for— I don't know why it doesn't scare me like it used to when I was a kid. Drugs and gangs and all of this shit really scared me. I remember, uh, being in the car with my cousin in St. Kilda and having a junkie trying to open the door of the car. I was like fucking freaked out. And then her house got broken into and someone killed her. Have you ever— You had that one incident in Bondi with your hard drive, your laptop.

Tommy: Yeah, I haven't had much burglary, but the gang that we used to be scared of, or you'd hear all that, and they were earlier days than us. So, I grew up sort of late '90s, 2000s, like mid, middle 2000s when I was a real little punk. And it's, um, and I, early 2000s, but the Oakley Wogs. And I'm just using, I'm not calling them wogs. That's what they call themselves. Their logo was O and then the middle W. They just copied the, um, it's almost Volkswagen, but they, um, they were known to be like pretty fucking brutal.

Josh: Oakley Wogs would have the best spreads when it comes to food. Wouldn't they? Look, mum's mate. Look, got some leftovers from mum. And so in Oakleigh, it was where they were. They'll start fighting, get stitches because they ate too much before the, the, uh, yeah, no, so like when I think about gangs, I think about, um, like the bandannery type things and like having like the red Crips. Yeah.

Tommy: Did you ever— Bloods.

Josh: Did you ever get into bandanas? Did you ever have a bandana?

Tommy: Nah, nah, I wasn't into that. That's like very American gang culture, Crips.

Josh: That was like my school. There was a few kids doing that sort of shit.

Tommy: Was it?

Josh: I mean, but I think that they were being— yeah, it's literally tryhards. You definitely feel like—

Tommy: I walk through a group, like, I'm more, I'm more worried about junkies if I was walking through a group of— and when I say junkies, just severe drug users that are unstable based, you know, on that. Versus walking past a pack of young kids. What would your approach be?

Josh: So, I had a friend, Kiki, who's from the US, lived in Carlton. Yeah. Walking along Carlton, 7 PM. Girl? Girl. And she— A gang basically came out, ripped her phone out of her hand. She went to chase the guy and there was like 4 of the other guys behind her said, "Don't chase him." or you'll get hurt. And it was some sort of initiation thing. The police told her that they had done about 5 phones in the last 20 minutes, all in that area. What would your strategy be if that happened?

Tommy: Yeah, fuck, what— I feel like I— well, it's never happened to me, and I feel like I've always had my wits about me. Yeah.

Josh: Would you be the type to push back on it or would you just allow it to happen?

Tommy: Fuck yeah. In the moment I probably would, um, know it, like size it up. Yeah. Like I think that's, I think I would like to think I'm street smart and I would weigh up if there was two of them. Yeah. Fucking straight right to the nose of one of them and then a solid roundhouse to the other. I'd like to think I would do that, but I wouldn't want to. Nah, actually I take that back. I'm always— I try and defuse situations. Old me would have tried to front kick one of them and do a flying elbow to the other. But then the older me and the more sensible me—

Josh: Because they'll fucking stab you. Like, if they're coming after you—

Tommy: That's what I think about. Yeah. I think about getting stabbed and all those things. So I'd just be like, whatever, I take it. Yeah. Nowadays, definitely. Yeah.

Josh: I remember as a kid, well, what were you taught as a kid if something was happening? Like if you were, say, getting abducted. Do you remember? Were you told anything?

Tommy: I can't remember that.

Josh: Do you know what I was told? Like, this is what our class was told, that if anything was happening, you were getting abducted, to yell, "Fire! Fire!" And the idea is that people are more likely to, if there's a fire, people like fucking freak out and want to do something straight away. That's a good one. A bit fucking confusing though, because like, where's the fire? And then you have to explain, like, I was only saying that because this guy was abducting me. And like, well, you're a fucking liar. Why are we going to listen? But anyway, did you any— You had the scary things in school where it's like those conversations where there's been a man who's been walking around and he's been going up to the fence and asking kids to come. I didn't have that. Yeah, we had that at our school. Fuck. So, it's like everyone, if you see anyone at the fence, don't do anything. Like, you know, don't go to the fence. Isn't that fucked up? Yeah, it's fucked up. That's a thing that was— I remember being so scared as a kid, or just thinking about like these fucking predators. I didn't think, I didn't think about that much.

Tommy: I was just out my bike and my blades and down the bowl and riding around. I never— it was never a fear. I never had that fear for me.

Josh: Have you had any— did you have any incidents as a kid where you felt like really unsafe?

Tommy: Oh yeah, I, I was in in situations where, um, mate was like rolled. Was that being rolled? Is like, give us your phone. Okay, want your phone. And so there was this, this nutter dude who's still around, so I won't mention him, but he's been in and out of jail now. And, um, horrible, like they now have guns and shit. So it's like, anyway, I went to school with him. No, no, no. So he was like a bad kid then and older, probably 17, when I was like fucking 12, 13. Yeah. And he rolled my friend in front, like I was standing with him and he's like, you know, trying to get his phone off him. And, um, and yeah, so I was there for that and I was there for another time when another guy got rolled for his phone. It was a real thing back in the day, rolling kids for their phone.

Josh: Because all they have to do is say, give us your phone. Yeah. Because if someone said, give us your phone, I said no, they say, 'Fucking give me your phone or I'll hurt you,' you'd probably give them the phone.

Tommy: Yeah, and especially when it's like these dudes who have reputations that you're like, 'Oh shit.' And so, but I look back and the— like, I would now be twice the size of this dude. And yeah, and it's just that—

Josh: it's the fact that they're cowards and that they're gonna fucking stab you in the fucking chest.

Tommy: And also, like, my point is, when I'm— when you're young, right, Like all the kids that are like 3 years older. Yeah.

Josh: Well, they've gone through puberty and all that sort of thing.

Tommy: They're like, man. They're so big. They're like men. And now I look at these kids, I drive past them, they're all like, you know, those lads that have got their hats up, you know, hats sort of sticking out, the hair pointing out. Yeah. They're called lads. If you look that up, you'll get the sense. They look like tennis players. But like they were scary to me when I was a kid, in terms of like seeing a pack of these. Now I see them and laugh, but it's just because I'm older and sort of, I guess, wearing polo shirts isn't scary.

Josh: Yeah. Yeah.

Tommy: They went, they shopped at Lacoste.

Josh: And it was DFO Lacoste, which was a great, great buy. Good sales at DFO. Yeah. Thanks for listening, everyone. It's The Daily Talk Show. Remember, as Tommy said at the front, you can send us mail. It's PO Box 400. Abbotsford, Victoria 3067. Thanks, Michelle, for sending that through. And you can also review us on iTunes through the podcast app. You. We'll see ya. Have a good one. Bye.