Romance isn't practical

Josh: It is The Daily Talk Show and it's Monday the 12th of February, TJ.

Tommy: Hey, mate. 20th episode celebrations.

Josh: Mate, I feel like my energy is very high.

Tommy: Well, we planned out to be the 20th episode was when we're going to actually talk about it online. So, I feel like we've hit a milestone. But I was thinking today, if we don't have another milestone, it could be— we might be in trouble.

Josh: This could be the end.

Tommy: Because our aim was 20 episodes. And then we're gonna, I'm gonna put out a video about this. No one's gonna care, but maybe you need another one, 50. We need to do something on the 50, we'll work that out.

Josh: Yeah, I, what's another example of an achievement that you've set, like a goal like this that you've actually seen through?

Tommy: Oh, I haven't, well, I set the 100 videos of this year. Yeah, but that's until the end of the year that I need to.

Josh: Well, I think big goal, for whatever reason, I reckon big goals are sometimes easier than smaller goals.

Tommy: I said, I said, like, I entered this competition and I put it up on my wall. It was like, win Hollywood Immersive Hosting comp. I was like, getting flown to LA to live in this mansion in the hills for 3 weeks. And I, and I entered the competition and I put it up on the thing and I just thought about it, thought about it, and I won it.

Josh: It's amazing.

Tommy: But the thinking of it is like, I've done that with a lot of things.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: And sometimes they don't come through, but there's no difference in the feeling. Like, you know, you're like, oh, I just knew I was going to I actually felt like I was going to win, but then there's other things I felt like I was going to win and I didn't.

Josh: Yeah, they're the worst kind.

Tommy: You just may as well go into it thinking you're going to win, because if you don't, it's the same feeling as when you do win. It's like winning stuff's surreal.

Josh: I feel like I remember you doing a bit of a— have you done like the whole cutting out of a bit of a mood board? Yeah, some crafty bit of scissors and some magazines.

Tommy: Well, it's like from The Secret, like the Yeah, it's like the vision board. That's what they are.

Josh: And I don't know, it's like you did that for that, um, that, uh, presenting job in Sydney.

Tommy: Yeah, didn't we?

Josh: Haven't done a vision board since. Yeah, like the vision board. Um, yeah, no, I remember because you put a video up.

Tommy: Yeah, I made a video about that and it was, it was for a job. And I did this and it was a vision board that I did, but I didn't get the job. But I did it when I was going for the job in radio. I put like a thing up Star FM. And I got that.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: So, maybe it's a fucking— Maybe it's whiteboards for me. Maybe I just need to write shit on whiteboards.

Josh: I think cementing it, putting it, writing it down somewhere is a good thing. I think that this was a great— This 20-episode thing has really helped me. Like, just not making it feel like a grind. Can we just talk really quickly about what The Daily Talk Show is?

Tommy: Yes.

Josh: Go for it.

Tommy: Okay. The Daily Talk Show. 2 mates getting together every weekday talking shit.

Josh: Monday to Friday. I was reading the description yesterday and it said talk for 30 minutes each weekday.

Tommy: We've blown that out a bit.

Josh: Yeah, to 45. But from— It was your little Bodhi boy's first birthday on Saturday.

Tommy: Mate, we got 45 people.

Josh: I thought you were going to say $4,500.

Tommy: No, we got some cool gifts. And I said this to you, I was like, it's the same with a wedding, right? You spend X amount on a wedding, say it's $20,000.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: And say if you have 100 people at your wedding for $20,000 you're spending, you'll probably get 20% back, almost 20% back.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: So, you could get $4,000 worth of presents. So, it's technically like, you know, like you've spent $16,000.

Josh: I want to talk about the wedding stuff. A little bit later, but we need to talk about Bodhi's birthday. And we did have, we did have a few of the people who have been listening from the start, some of your mates who— How did BMac even find out about the poddy?

Tommy: Oh, he sent me this cryptic message and I didn't understand it. I thought he was referring to our podcast, but he said, he sent me this message saying, "Podcast number one." I was thinking, are you talking about— And I haven't told anyone. This was like a week in. I was like, are you talking about our podcast? Yeah. And anyway, I sent in the link, thedailytalkshow.com. Yeah. And then he just started listening. But what he was actually referring to was he thought we should start a podcast, him and I.

Josh: Too late, mate. Too late. Maybe we've got to get B-Mac on as—

Tommy: Yeah, definitely.

Josh: He's a good episode.

Tommy: He's present. He got—

Josh: Bode. Yeah.

Tommy: And he, it was ironic, it was a funny gift. He got Bode a JB Hi-Fi voucher for $29.95.

Josh: Mate, that's great. That's an amazing gift. I love JB. I've bought Bree some really shit gifts over the years because I've left it to the last minute and ended up at JB at 8:30 because the only thing that's fucking open late.

Tommy: Mate, you can get a drone from JB, so you can get some good gifts.

Josh: But it will be a parrot.

Tommy: No, you can get the Mavic now, I'm pretty sure. You can buy my drone from there. It's sick.

Josh: So, the birthday party, 45 people. Yeah.

Tommy: And I reckon, not that we do it in gifts, but we spent maybe $300. Amy worked magic and she did it on the live.

Josh: Used Alibaba.

Tommy: But like, people buy, it's amazing the gifts. And I couldn't believe how many people turned out. I reckon more people came to that than my 21st.

Josh: Says a lot, doesn't it?

Tommy: I think it's like everyone when they come to it, it's like, well done to you. This is a party for you guys for making it through the year.

Josh: And I think like it was actually a party, one of the few parties that I've enjoyed attending. Yeah. I think it's just because, I don't know, maybe because of the relationship you and I have and you just don't give a fuck. Yeah. Like if maybe if I'd only seen you every once a month or once every 2 months and then going. It would be a bit different, but I think that it was—

Tommy: It was good fun. It was a good vibe in the park. It was warm.

Josh: Sausage sizzle.

Tommy: Sausage sizzle, cakes, just running around, drinking a few beers. Bodhi just loving it.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: It was great.

Josh: It was very good. The— Talking about the wedding stuff.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: I was thinking this morning about what romance is. How would you describe romance?

Tommy: Well, it's not sitting on the couch with your missus while she watches Married at First Sight and you've got your earbuds in and you're listening to Joe Rogan.

Josh: So, yeah, you're referencing what I was talking about last week. You last week on the couch with your missus.

Tommy: That's not romance.

Josh: So, what do you think? How would you describe romance?

Tommy: Hashtag the little things. No, but I think romance is thoughtfulness. It's thinking ahead. It's almost like a bit selflessness. So, you're doing something for them, a thought. For instance, it's like, I think the classic example of buying someone flowers is like, there's some essence in that that is romance.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: I think it's the clichéd version, but it's like you're thinking about them, you're doing something they weren't expecting it. And they— it's a sign of love. I don't know.

Josh: Well, I was thinking because Valentine's Day is coming up. Oh, fuck yeah. In a couple of days.

Tommy: Bode's birthday on Valentine's Day.

Josh: Bode Valentine jacket.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: Solid name.

Tommy: Strong name.

Josh: Yeah. Real— What is it called? What do you call yourself? A rooster. Big rooster name.

Tommy: Do I call myself a rooster?

Josh: Don't look at me as if you don't. You're like, see, I'm a rooster. And what would you— How would you describe me?

Tommy: You? If you're a bantam.

Josh: What's a bantam?

Tommy: I had bantams as a kid. They're basically a small Chicken that lay eggs and they've got this cute little blue neck and they've got like this cute little sort of mohawk thing. What sort of egg? But they're just small. And so, you're a Bantam.

Josh: Right.

Tommy: In touch with your emotions.

Josh: I just want to understand the eggs. Are they regular eggs that you'd eat? Smaller.

Tommy: Smaller than, like, say if you got like a—

Josh: Would you sell them as chicken eggs?

Tommy: No, we ate them. Well, you could buy them as chicken eggs. They are a chicken. A Bantam is a chicken. It's a breed of a chicken. Okay.

Josh: Would I have ever eaten a Bantam egg sold as a chicken?

Tommy: No, no, no, no.

Josh: Anyway, romance.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: I've been thinking that romance is really unpractical things, like there's nothing practical about romance. I was thinking about like, oh, you getting married. Do you think that marriage— What part of marriage is romantic?

Tommy: The honeymoon.

Josh: Well, I mean, it wasn't for you because Amy was fucking vomiting.

Tommy: But it was amazing. Like, it's— I think what you don't realise when you're not married is it's like for— and it might not be for everyone, but for Amy, I feel like it just solidified some commitment and some, some things within the relationship that cares go away.

Josh: So, that's a bit more practical than romantic. Do you think marriage is more practical than romantic?

Tommy: Well, there's practical. You say, "I do," and then I say, "I do." There's practical elements of it, but then what it does emotionally to you, I think it's just like some switches internally.

Josh: Yeah. Just— I wonder if that's the case. So, I've been thinking about Bree and I, and I've always imagined one day getting married, but it's purely my practical mind, which is like, I can't be fucked trying to work out who to invite. I can't be fucked with like all of these. Practicalities of it are getting in the way. And yeah, I'm trying to work out, okay, well, if it's the commitment, if that's the important bit, from a practical point of view, you can go to a, like a fucking city. Yeah. What is it called?

Tommy: The— It's an office, my brother. Yeah, the registry.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: My brother did it.

Josh: Go and do that. But then are you losing something? Are we going to then look back and be like, we really didn't, utilise that.

Tommy: Well, it depends on what you're doing that for.

Josh: Well, I want to show— I want the commitment. Yeah. I want to show my love for Bree and Bree wants to show her love for me.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: But I don't want to have to fucking work out who's sitting next to who at a fucking wedding.

Tommy: The most special part is the fucking engagement, like getting engaged, right? Because it's you and her, there's no one around. Maybe me with a long lens. But it's like—

Josh: Actually, I don't think I would be comfortable with you on sort of 20, like a 50mm quite close, like a 1.4, just getting right in there.

Tommy: Get that depth, make sure that focus is there.

Josh: Yeah, absolutely.

Tommy: But because there's this, you get engaged, like for Amy and I, we did in the morning, and then we had this whole day where we didn't tell anyone. And it was just us and it's like this really nice feeling. So, it's like that's where it is, I guess, romantic. There's practical elements of it, buying the ring, where to do it, how to do it. Can I capture this with the camera? Do I need to redub the audio of her saying, "I do," or "I will," "I want to marry." What do you say? "Will you marry me?" "Yes." Yeah.

Josh: Well, I think—

Tommy: Too practical for my fucking head right there.

Josh: I just, yeah, I find it interesting. I just, I feel like I'm also maybe too self-critical in calling out my own, like romance requires you to remove some of your internal thoughts of calling bullshit on yourself, being like, go fuck it. Like, it's like, oh, you could do it here. It's like, go fuck yourself. Like it's—

Tommy: So, I think there's also like an emotional block, right? Because it's allowing yourself to be pretty vulnerable, like all the moment. Like I cried when Amy, when I proposed to Amy is like, for some, like it's just this emotional moment, right? And how often are you flexing the emotional muscle?

Josh: Everything's flexing for old TJ.

Tommy: I know, shed the heart, Josh. No, but I was talking to James, my good mate James, he was saying, Having a kid is like training for your heart. Like that emotion. When do you get to train that shit? Like when are you challenged? When do you feel vulnerable like that for somebody else? Not a great deal.

Josh: And because if we only thought practical with these things, you wouldn't have a fucking kid. Nah. Would you? Like if you actually did the numbers on a spreadsheet.

Tommy: Yeah, nah.

Josh: You're not having a kid. You're not getting married.

Tommy: Well, it wouldn't work out.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: On paper it wouldn't work out. And that's where it is. It's like, so there's that other side where you're like thinking who to invite. It's like, don't even get there. Just get engaged. You can be engaged for ages.

Josh: And then, yeah, that's a, that's a thing, right? Like, Bri and I have been together for over 10 years. It feels like we're married.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: And I have no reservation, like we both have no reservations in getting married, but it's just one of those things of the, the wedding and all the bullshittery around it.

Tommy: This can be a long time after.

Josh: What was it like? What was— I mean, I wasn't even fucking invited to your wedding. Don't you wish you had that I know it was annoying. Isn't it crazy to think that your potential best man wasn't even at your wedding?

Tommy: Fuck off, mate, you weren't best man. Actually, did I have a best man? I had my brothers. So, I've got 2 brothers, so that's why I just had them both. One signed the registry.

Josh: Great.

Tommy: And they both made a speech.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: Tore me apart in the speeches.

Josh: Have you MC'd a wedding?

Tommy: Nah, I'd get too sweary.

Josh: Yeah. Yeah.

Tommy: I couldn't be bothered. It's also a wedding's, you don't want to, You don't want to give that responsibility to somebody. Like if it's your best mate, it's actually annoying responsibility to have to MC a whole wedding. It's fucked. You'd probably like it because you don't drink and you like to shine.

Josh: Nah, I don't think I would. Well, it would depend on the audience, I guess. But I was talking to my mate, Naysan, who I'm really good friends with, and I was doing a bit of the, if you were to get married, Married, like he basically said the other day, he's like, I'm catching up with a good friend, blah, blah, blah. I said, I haven't even fucking heard of this person. And then I said, can we get some sort of rating on like where do they fit in sort of the friendships? And then I said to him, obviously it was leading to what I really cared about, which is where do I fit? We have a bit of a, you know, remember MySpace top friends?

Tommy: Yeah, yeah.

Josh: And so, I was saying, well, he said top 3.

Tommy: You're top 3 or he's— this other guy's top?

Josh: No, I'm top 3.

Tommy: Okay.

Josh: I didn't give a fuck what the other guy was. He wasn't near that. So, uh, but then I was like, okay, so you have what, your mum, then me? And he's like, no, this isn't including family. So I was like, okay, top 3. And then I got into the, you know, do you think I would be your best man? He's like, Josh, why are you putting me in this position? I'm like, No one else fucking cares. Like, you can tell me. Like, it's not going to hurt anyone else's feelings. Just say it. Just say it. But it got me thinking around making decisions like that. Was it hard for you and Amy to lock that shit down?

Tommy: What, best man?

Josh: Best man, bridesmaids. Was it a big fucking drama?

Tommy: You can't like, what if I pick one of my brothers? Or I go a mate? It's like, which mate? So, I went both my brothers.

Josh: My brother's first wedding wasn't included in the bridal party.

Tommy: You weren't?

Josh: No.

Tommy: Why not?

Josh: I don't think he likes me that much. Oh, no, he likes me.

Tommy: That's definitely a sign that he doesn't like you.

Josh: And then second, he did though. So, either he likes me more.

Tommy: Oh, he's got married twice.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: Well, joke's on him.

Josh: But no, it was great. I got to like, you know, it's like a bit of an audition. Like, I got to see from the outside and then the second one.

Tommy: You were how many years later was this?

Josh: 3 or something.

Tommy: This is quaternary.

Josh: Yeah, it's a—

Tommy: Solid effort.

Josh: Yeah, it was a solid effort.

Tommy: Imagine me getting married 3 years after, like, It was very much like— You'd be invited to that wedding.

Josh: Yeah, that's nice. Well, not just invited.

Tommy: Hang on.

Josh: If I am invited, I'll be a drone operator at it. But I, you know, had a big life change, went overseas. Previous marriage didn't work out. But yeah, it's that whole wedding stuff. Like, I remember speaking to my mum and dad about it years and years ago and they're like, We're not fucking friends with anyone that was at our wedding or like very few.

Tommy: There's some people that I regret that I invited that I did out of like just pleasing, it was pleasantry. I just couldn't be fucked having conversations around why you're not invited, which is annoying. And then, oh, it'd be a different wedding this year if I had it. And I think it's what happens. Weddings are actually pretty annoying, dude. Like I didn't feel, I had fun, but it's also like you're the centre of the party and everyone wants to say hello and no, it's beyond that. So, it's like tiring.

Josh: It's beyond what you could handle.

Tommy: What I loved is having the— we hired a hotel the day before.

Josh: What happened?

Tommy: No, my brother and I stayed there.

Josh: Oh, yeah.

Tommy: So, we had 3 nights.

Josh: Squeegee night?

Tommy: No, fuck off. Got a souvlaki and had a few beers. And then they had good sleep and then everyone came the next day and we, like the best, like the groomsmen, my other brother, and we all had a buffet breakfast. It was at the Grand Hyatt.

Josh: What'd you eat?

Tommy: Oh, pancakes, waffles.

Josh: Really? Everything. Were you worried about getting, like, was there a big shredders of flesh before?

Tommy: No, I was feeling good, looking good.

Josh: Yeah, great.

Tommy: I don't know.

Josh: Did Amy go a bit psycho in the wedding? She was pregnant.

Tommy: Oh, of course. She was feeling horrible.

Josh: I mean, she was vomiting every morning for it, but that was her morning.

Tommy: But it's, yeah, there is a lot of logistics and practical elements to a wedding.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: That it just gets you through it.

Josh: I just don't know about the, as someone, you know, I do like attention sometimes. I'm this weird fucking mix of loving attention and hating it all at the same time. Wedding attention, I don't like. I don't like birthday attention. How do you see your birthdays? Are you someone to celebrate it?

Tommy: Yeah, I like it. You see, it's interesting. Facebook, I, you know, I used to get a lot of text messages on my birthday.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: Dropped right off. Hardly get any text messages anymore other than like close family. But then the Facebook birthday messages come through there. So, there's more of those.

Josh: Okay.

Tommy: So, it's like there's this. Switch between this personalised touch and now like, I think, you know, who the fuck? This dude from high school is telling me happy birthday. I haven't seen him in 10 years.

Josh: When anyone writes HBJJ, I'm going to like—

Tommy: Delete them?

Josh: No, Gfy, go fuck yourself. Because it's like, I feel like writing HBJJ is like, I'm going to write a happy birthday, but I'm going to put in the minimum amount of fucking effort that I possibly can.

Tommy: That's funny. I wonder if it'll go the other way, people just stop. Like, I don't, I've stopped writing to people happy birthday if I'm not really that close to them.

Josh: Probably do. I probably do it on Facebook 5 times a year. Okay.

Tommy: And it would have been more of a like timing thing. You've grabbed your phone, flicked it on.

Josh: Yeah. If it's someone, if someone I like and I'm like, oh, you know what, I'll write to them.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: But it's pretty, and Facebook are pretty good now at like notifying me when someone that I care about Having a birthday.

Tommy: They're doing it on purpose?

Josh: Yeah, it's all their ego shit. Yeah. Well, yeah.

Tommy: The people that you're in contact with more.

Josh: Facebook would prioritise those people who you might be hanging out with a lot or things like that.

Tommy: Dude, it saves me. It saves me heaps of time seeing people who, and like I've even texted other people who I knew that would be forgetting their birthday.

Josh: Well, I will text someone happy birthday if I see it on, sometimes I'll see it on Facebook.

Tommy: Good thinking.

Josh: And they'll prompt me and then I'll text them. So, then it seems like I haven't had an algorithm telling me.

Tommy: Well, if you're not on Facebook anymore, you can't like, you can't expect everybody to remember.

Josh: Yeah. Oh, fuck no. If you don't even have it listed on your Facebook, it's like your birthday doesn't exist.

Tommy: Age is a funny thing. You get through, you go through it. Like at 21, I wanted to be older.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: Like turning 18, I didn't want to be 18.

Josh: Bree wants to look older.

Tommy: Does she?

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: Well, she— How old?

Josh: She would be 25. Bree's 27. Yeah.

Tommy: I think you get to a point, though, where you're like, you could be 25 to 35. Yeah. But you just don't really look any different.

Josh: But the thing I think that's interesting with Bree is she looks young, but she's had so much experience in the game, like in her career, work life, because she started quite young, straight out of sort of high school, basically, like just a year after that. And yeah, she was speaking to a photographer that she was working with the other day and they were saying they know that she looks young, but they thought she was older based on, they're like, "Oh, we've been working with you for such a long period of time." But that would change negotiation, right? Like if, how much would you listen to someone at the age of 22 versus if they're 35?

Tommy: Yeah, true.

Josh: I mean, do you think that you adapt your sensibility around how much you listen to someone based on their age or no? I think internally I just do, right? Like if someone's trying to give me advice around fucking— It's not about discrimination or anything like that, but if you've got someone giving you life advice and they're 21, they can go fuck themselves.

Tommy: Well, it's like all the life coaches.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: I did a life coaching course.

Josh: The Coaching Institute?

Tommy: Yeah, when I was 19.

Josh: What was it like?

Tommy: I, you know, like, I almost had the awareness going into it that I wasn't going to be a life coach because I was young. Like, I felt the young thing, and I had people in there say, oh, you're so young, like in a patronising way. But I got a lot out of it. Like, I think, I mean, it was learning, it's education. It was like $4,000 or something. It's like a complete rort. I mean, it's like all of those education businesses.

Josh: Where'd you get $4,000 from?

Tommy: No, they have like a payment plan and their sales technique going into it, right? They have these really lovely salespeople that just— they're probably using NLP on you, anchoring, touching your shoulder, connecting, you know, they're getting you excited. I was kind of excited after it and I signed up.

Josh: What did you walk away with?

Tommy: Um, 4 grand in debt. Yeah, no, I think it was an experience. I feel like all these courses and shit you do is like you meet people within it, you learn little things. It was more around like, it was, you know what, the biggest thing for me, I wanted to get out of doing personal training and I wanted to get into doing media, radio, TV stuff.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: And it was like this shift, it was like I'd broken up with a girlfriend that I was with for a couple of years, and I did this training course.

Josh: You showed her doing the coaching institute.

Tommy: Yeah. And then I got a gig doing some roving reporting with Triple M.

Josh: So I was like, was it connected, do you think?

Tommy: Those things, whether it is or it isn't, it was like, it's about as defining moments where I like decide to go in one way. The attention was off it. No, that's what it was. I focused my attention away because I was obsessed with doing the TV radio stuff.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: And when I did that, I got a fucking job doing roving reporting for The Rush Hour.

Josh: We always talk about that, right? It's like as soon as— If there's something you really want, sometimes you need to take your foot off the pedal and focus on something else and then it will work out. But that's almost opposite to this fucking visual board shit, right? Because it's saying, hang on, I don't have control over all of this. I'm going to— You know, try something else.

Tommy: No, I— you're right, but I think wheels are in motion, right? So the only reason I got the radio stuff was because I'd put in all that work and was obsessed over, you know, making contacts and doing random shit. And then I take my focus off and then it's probably still bubbling away. It's like us talking about content works while you sleep. So I've got a YouTube channel with 45, 50 videos on it, so I could be asleep for a month and still get views and something could happen, someone sees it.

Josh: Like, what's like this podcast, there is no connection to any, like, we're not fucking, there's no like long game of us being fucking podcast celebrities or some shit like this. But it's our goal is actually just in the doing. Like, what happens if we just make and if we just put it out there? Maybe there's an interest for it, but it's going in it with the intention of the creating versus thinking too far ahead. Yeah.

Tommy: And it's, and it's so funny. It's like any, anything you, it's, that's totally an internal feeling. You need, it needs to be aligned.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: Like you can't just say we're not, we're doing it because it's the creating. Because if you don't legit feel that, it'll be too painful.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: You know, it's, and so I think it works. Shit like that works. When it's in total alignment with how you're feeling.

Josh: Well, just think about how many people who are working in radio who are in fucking sales, in some sort of content role that just want to be on air. It's just, it's a common problem, right?

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: It's just like you're filled with this building, there's only 2 mics in a few positions that can go on air.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: And everyone's trying to weasel their way on.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: And it's sort of, it's almost the, the, the go-to slur within radio. It's like, oh, fucking Josh, he just wants to be on air. Yeah. So yeah, fucking oath.

Tommy: Yeah, there was— it's so funny, people talking behind your back in radio. Like, I should say, Matt Tilley. Yeah, I worked on his show and he talked behind my back to other people. Yeah, I'm a fucking young—

Josh: We can say this because, you know, he doesn't even know what a fucking podcast is.

Tommy: I was like 27 when I was working there, but he's talking shit behind my back to other people saying, oh, um, so to give you context, I went for some reason, Amy and I went for The Block and we got shortlisted and got down to like pretty close to being on it, right? And he was like telling people behind my back, oh, Tommy just wants to be famous. It's like, you are the person that's getting paid a million dollars here, bro. And you're fucking threatened by this young whippersnapper who's working at the radio.

Josh: I mean, people can give a lot of people shit. We can all create these narratives around what people are trying to do.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: But like what I've always respected about you, and it's the same with my mate Simon Taylor, there's certain people who will get criticised because they just fucking try and they'll go at it and they'll fucking try and attack it in 10 different ways. And people don't like that. People don't like. The idea that they need to justify why they're not doing certain opportunities or they're fucking triggered by their own bullshit. But I thought when you were saying you're building context, you're going to tell people who fucking Matt Tilley is. But yeah, but yeah, totally.

Tommy: Well, he was on— he was just like a king of radio in Melbourne for 10, 15 years. Yeah. And then, I mean, when he's saying this, he's on the way out of that. Prime spots, you know. So, maybe there is a bit of that that plays into it.

Josh: But I think also there's certain industries where jealousy or backstabbing or things like that's high, and comedy specifically is one of them. Another one which I've been noticing, I follow a few artists on Instagram and there's this huge push around calling out copycats. So, I follow this one artist that probably every second day—

Tommy: Song? Like an artist? No, artist. Like an illustrator.

Josh: Illustration. Like illustration type stuff. So, like vector art and stuff like that. And she calls out people probably at least once a week being like, "I've just been alerted to this person who's completely copying my work." And they'll do screen grabs. I mean, how do you feel about that?

Tommy: Yeah, my brother's— My sister-in-law, She's an artist. She's got these awesome earrings. It's called mercypercy.com. Check it out. She— we found on, I think it was either Facebook Marketplace or Gumtree.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: This person selling prints of her work.

Josh: Really?

Tommy: It was like 2 of them and they were called Circe Mercy. No, it was like just identical. They weren't even calling them anything. It was like, I had these. I'm pretty— no, she, I think, legit copied, like, legit just stole the print. And, and, and we sent them to her and she called them out or something and wrote on it or something. And this person played dumb. Oh, I don't have it, you know. And so, but I see how I've, I've watched other people copy her work, whether they're copying it or not, and I've seen it. And so it's like, it's a feeling, you know. It's like I was saying, we love to know, we love to be the one who knew the person that Fuckin'—

Josh: Yeah, you can be married to your ideas or around that romanticise being first in something.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: Video, it's way harder, right? Illustration, you can look and say this person has literally traced this shit. But cinematography and style, and it's a lot harder to justify saying someone stole that.

Tommy: Yeah, because who did it first?

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: I mean, there's like—

Josh: And that's what pisses me off about vlogging, right? It's like people seem to call people out as being Casey Neistat copycats or it's like, it's like saying that if you pick up a camera that you are copying all these cinematographers. It's like just because someone's got a certain type of fucking tripod doesn't mean that they're copying. Like, look at Michael Moore, Louis Theroux, Nick Broomfield, all of these documentary makers who might have similar styles. And I'm sure that they're borrowing off one another. But there seems to be a case where it's like if you're big, it's not an issue. But when you're at a smaller level, when you don't have that voice, then it's—

Tommy: And you have to almost, I think you almost have to copy somebody in some respects early days to then be able to find your voice, because it won't be natural. Like, you can't continue to copy some dude's style because there will get to a point where you're like, you feel it's not the right way to do something. And so, like, I— I probably copied some vlogging styles early days, but then I found my feet a bit about what I like and what feels good to me when I'm making something or how to cut something. Wes Anderson is Casey Neistat, like those wide shots walking from left of frame to right of frame, like punching in. It's like, that's all Wes Anderson.

Josh: Everything is a hybrid, everything is a mashup. Austin Kleon talks a lot about it in his book, Steal Like an Artist, which I've got like 40 copies of, long story. But—

Tommy: Send your PO box and we may send you one.

Josh: Yeah, if you send me something in our PO box, which is—

Tommy: That's not what I was fucking saying. Not tit for tat.

Josh: PO Box 400, Abbotsford, Victoria 3067. I'll send the first 5 people who send us anything in the mailbox, I'll send them a copy of the book.

Tommy: Put a return address.

Josh: Yeah, put your return address on there. But yeah, it's— It's interesting.

Tommy: Is this a radio giveaway?

Josh: It's our first one. We're going to be doing Beat the Bomb tomorrow. It's, yeah, it's interesting. So, I think we should wrap up because it's been 31 mins and we want to keep these sort of things short. What should people know about The Daily Talk Show? Where is it from here? Why should people subscribe or who should subscribe?

Tommy: I think if you want to just feel like you're a part of a conversation, it's the— We started this—

Josh: Where you don't get to fucking talk.

Tommy: My favourite part. We talk about lots of stuff and I look back over the titles of each episode.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: And a lot of it does push towards like, you know, like success principles and all this shit.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: But we're talking about it.

Josh: We're talking about life.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: And it's, and it's not true. We're not positioning ourselves as fucking experts in anything. There's a bit of regurgitation going on, right? Like we consume so much content and we're sort of putting it through our own filter and then talking about it. And, uh, yeah, I think anyone who has 30 minutes, especially if you're in an industry where you work for yourself and you just, you need a bit of a fucking release, uh, where you drive Punt Road like me most days. Absolutely. I mean, if you're fucking, if you're on Hoddle Street at the moment, this podcast, you could listen to all 20 apps and still be on fucking You know, turning on. It's pretty crazy. Yeah, but this is the Daily Talk Show every weekday, Monday to Friday. Anything else you want to say?

Tommy: No.

Josh: No, I think that's about it for today. Make sure that— I guess this is the first time that we're really pushing the whole subscribing thing and rating us.

Tommy: So, if you've made it this far, you may as well, even if you hated this, you still may as well just give us a good rating.

Josh: Absolutely. And even if you don't agree with some of the shit, even if— And I think that the thing that we— I like about this is there will— we tread this fine line of slight missteps. I know that if I was doing this podcast a while ago, I wouldn't be talking about the thing. I know you're being comfortable about talking about Matt Tilley is because you're being fucking authentic and you actually have a thought, an opinion.

Tommy: He might have another side to it. Welcome to have him on the podcast.

Josh: Yeah. Like, we don't— I don't know. Like, it's one of those things where it's like there's the constant fear that you're going to lose something, right? That you say something wrong.

Tommy: Yeah. Honesty. I think that's the exchange with honesty is the vulnerability.

Josh: And you also know that you're not going to require a job from Matt Tilley.

Tommy: No.

Josh: And you don't really want to work for him.

Tommy: And I was saying a fact. Like, I think if I was scared to say that. Yeah. What, to make him— potentially look bad.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: That's the exchange of people thinking something about him. But then how it made me feel when these people came to me telling me—

Josh: Did you confront him about it?

Tommy: No, I didn't. Because I was on the— I was leaving.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: But I was like, it made me feel horrible in the moment because I was like, from someone that I respect as far as their successes. And I'm not any time going to be stealing your job, bro. That's why I was like, I had that initial like, feeling of hurt and then I was like, that's silly.

Josh: Yeah. People will talk shit. And maybe you want to talk shit in our— on our ratings. Feel free on iTunes, if it's positive shit. Yeah. We've also got an email address that we haven't received one email other than the test one you sent. So, it's hi@thedailytalkshow.com. All of the previous shows are at thedailytalkshow.com and we're available on iTunes.

Tommy: Catch ya.

Josh: Bye, everyone.