Swearing less for religious mates and picking yourself

Josh: Happy Monday everyone, it's the Daily Talk Show.

Mason: What's going on, TJ?

Tommy: Uh, like the intro.

Mason: Well done. Thank you. It's the, uh, the latest we've ever done a podcast.

Tommy: Yeah, we're just sneaking this one through.

Mason: Um, it's 8:20 PM Monday the 29th and it is, uh, 21 degrees.

Tommy: Yeah, it's been Melbourne absolutely scorching hot last couple of days. My little boy Didn't sleep much last night. He's in bed now.

Mason: Do you have aircon? Yeah, we do.

Tommy: It's not in our room, but we leave the door open. It pushes through to our room.

Mason: Have you done the math on how much it costs to run it?

Tommy: Mate, our power bill's been like $500. I don't know what—

Mason: every 3, every 4—

Tommy: right, so this power company, I can't remember who it is, Energy Australia, either way, they give you this option. You pay by this date and it's $500. You pay at— you pay any time after that date, it's like $850. Okay, how are they rewarding you for such— like, for so much? There's such a difference there. How are they—

Mason: they're either like doing you a really good solid or they're fucking you.

Tommy: Nah, no one's giving—

Josh: no one's doing solids.

Mason: I told myself, energy companies doing you a solid, Josh, you know what I I've realised that if I'm speaking to someone who's a bit religious, I won't swear as much around them.

Tommy: Yes. Oh, so you know how I went to New Zealand?

Mason: Yeah.

Tommy: So, I went to New Zealand maybe a month ago for a wedding with Amy, and this is my wife Amy, and she was a part of the wedding party. She was a bridesmaid, and I was in a house, and Amy, little backstory, when she was at Bible college, I was a stripper. There's a video headline.

Mason: There is a video. We'll put it in the show notes.

Tommy: My point is she was doing something a lot different with her life when I was doing, yeah, something questionable. I don't think hers is questionable, but—

Mason: You didn't say that, but it's very funny.

Tommy: My point is—

Mason: She was doing something questionable while I was living my life.

Tommy: She was the pure one.

Josh: I was the ratbag.

Tommy: Anyway, so she's got a lot of friends that are still from the church, Hillsong. Yeah. And a lot of them work for Hillsong.

Mason: Pentecostal, is that what it's called? Pentecostal church?

Tommy: I don't know if that, I don't know, but it's Hillsong Church. Do you know about Hillsong Church?

Mason: Yeah, it's the big concerts. There's like Planetshakers. There's a few of those real.

Tommy: So get this, the guy, so Amy's best friend was getting married and she was a bridesmaid and the guy who was marrying them.

Mason: Yeah. What are they called? Celebrant? Yeah.

Tommy: The celebrant was the dude who started Hillsong.

Mason: Sheesh.

Tommy: This is like a world.

Josh: Is he rich?

Mason: Does he have that rich vibe?

Tommy: He doesn't have a rich vibe.

Mason: He's probably, he was probably rich before or after. I'm not trying to— No.

Tommy: Well, he says he doesn't take money from the church. He's got books and he sells the books. He's doing well.

Mason: Yeah.

Tommy: And he's not—

Mason: What sort of— Is the book called The Bible?

Josh: No, he didn't write the Bible.

Mason: The Bible Part 2.

Tommy: He actually, he writes some good stuff. Anyway, my whole point to it, I was in a house staying with the husbands of the girls who were part of the wedding party and You know me, I fucking swear all the time. I've been swearing since I was 2.

Mason: Yeah.

Tommy: Um, and by the end of it, they— you don't realise how much you swear until you hang out with a bunch of Christians.

Mason: Yeah, that's gonna be the title of the podcast.

Tommy: But it's an honest thing because they don't swear, and I felt bad for— actually, no, I didn't feel bad, but I sort of felt—

Mason: did you sense that they would wince every time you'd say fuck, or was it okay?

Tommy: One of them, he's an absolute legend, he messaged me cause he was off getting told what to do by his wife and their friends and driving people around. And he says, I want it. He messaged me. He says, I want to swear like Tommy Jacket right now. That was as close as he got to dropping an F-bomb.

Mason: It's funny, but it got me thinking, speaking to a Christian dude today and I was realising that I was saying fuck way less and I was like, you know what? He'd be the type of guy that I would like to listen to this podcast. It would be a shame if he didn't listen.

Tommy: Because of the swearing.

Mason: Because of the swearing.

Tommy: Yeah, it's a funny thing. Like I told you, 2 years on radio, never once swore.

Mason: That's pretty impressive.

Tommy: And that's the rules. When there's no rules in place, I'll get a bit loose.

Mason: I'm a pretty, like, I'm a loose unit in regards to, I think I would swear 70% with clients, like with most clients.

Tommy: You can gauge it.

Mason: Yeah.

Tommy: 100% gauge it.

Josh: Have you ever gauged it wrong?

Mason: Have you ever gotten a bit of a, can't say that?

Tommy: Nah, but maybe that's my lack of filter around that type of thing. So, maybe it's, maybe you would have in the moment gone.

Mason: Mate, I was so proud of myself because I, in a way that had context, dropped the C-bomb with one of my clients who was a lady who was like a scientist, but big in the gender inclusion diversity type of thing.

Tommy: And you said the same old.

Mason: And I said, if that guy, couldn't that guy just stop being? And it went over great.

Tommy: Did it? Yeah.

Mason: Because she, fuck it, like, you know, I think that all of this gender stuff can give people a bad rap as if they're, that you've got to tiptoe around shit. But she was, she was actually the most politically incorrect in some regards than anyone I've ever met. And that's like across the board with like Working with NGOs and stuff, the people who are like, you would assume, like the activists and all that sort of thing sometimes have like the filthiest mouths.

Tommy: Well, I think you really can feel in the moment that it can either bring you really close or push you very far out. But if that's only if you've read it wrong. So, I think it does. It mates you up a bit.

Mason: Yeah. My ears started ringing when I did it. That's how much it like, you know, that like amaze. It's like when someone says something really nice to you.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: Yeah.

Mason: You sort of have this out-of-body experience.

Tommy: Well, if there's been Christians listening to it, this podcast, they've dropped off at the one where we played the Craig Harper 12 fucking rules of success.

Mason: But I think fuck has become a word that we can just use pretty openly without it being an issue, maybe.

Tommy: Kind of want to use it more around people that don't like it being used.

Mason: I feel like the— What about kids? Do you say it in front of Bodhi?

Tommy: Yeah, he's only, he's not even a year yet. I don't know. I think I'm okay if he swears, but he has to know what's okay.

Mason: Yeah.

Tommy: Like timing, where you are and why you're using it. If you're using, if you're putting weight behind it emotionally to, you know, it's charged.

Mason: Well, that's where I feel like maybe I do overuse it because I, because I would say it a few times in every pod, like, and it makes me realise because every time I upload the podcast, I have to click like Contains explicit language and that's my fault.

Tommy: Yeah. My brother started telling me off for swearing around his daughter, who's nearly 2. Or yeah, she's nearly 2.

Mason: Do you feel like, I don't know if you answered that question, have you ever sworn inappropriately? No. Well, fuck, we know you've done that.

Tommy: Yeah.

Mason: But the, at a position where someone said, hey, you can't do that.

Tommy: At school and stuff like that.

Mason: But yeah.

Tommy: No, I don't know. I think it becomes a bit more clear when you're an adult.

Mason: Being told off.

Tommy: What's okay and what's not.

Mason: Have you ever been told off as an adult? That like you can—

Tommy: For swearing?

Mason: No, just in general.

Tommy: Oh.

Mason: Being told off as an adult. Yeah. It's not ideal, is it?

Tommy: What pisses me off, one of the things you just don't want to be told anything about is your parenting. It's like—

Mason: Have you had anyone?

Tommy: No, not yet. Not yet. And like, but I see people look at me when I like, you know, throwing Bodhi around. He loves it. And I think it's like, it's all my choice to do what I want to do with my kid because I'm the one, and maybe there's parents that aren't and don't have the filter, but I feel like I know the limits of whatever we're doing and what we're playing and where he is. So, I haven't yet been told off, but I feel, you definitely feel, oh no.

Mason: You nearly had the punch on with the guy at Luna Park, remember? At the front?

Tommy: Well, he thought I was going to walk into him and I, and he and he had a go at me and I actually thought he was telling his kid to watch out for that guy. But it turned out he was telling me to watch out for his kid. When I was like, mate, tell my kid what to watch out. Don't tell me what to do. But maybe that's a kid thing.

Mason: You sound like such a wimp when you say it was him. He should be watching where he's going.

Tommy: I tell you what, having a break after a weekend and when you are doing this podcast thing, It's like you actually— I've had so many things that I've kind of wanted to talk about.

Mason: That's nice.

Tommy: Because you start thinking in that way of going, oh, we could talk about that in the podcast, or I could bring that up.

Josh: It's like a YouTube channel, all of that stuff. It's just like—

Tommy: Have you still got one?

Josh: How many videos are you doing this year?

Mason: 110.

Tommy: No, you're not.

Mason: 100% I will.

Tommy: I'm doing 100. You're not doing 110.

Mason: I think I'm actually on track to be doing 110 if you were to— base it out from the days, which is good.

Tommy: Well, all power to you, mate. I want you to do 110.

Josh: I know I would love it.

Mason: But what have you been thinking about? What's been on your mind?

Tommy: So, and I know you're, you're, you do this and it's, you get on like these, it might be a couple of weeks or it might be just one week.

Mason: Diets. No.

Tommy: Yeah, that too. But using a phrase, a turn of phrase or like a metaphor or Something that you just, you get out there. I hear you talking to other people, you're using it, using it online.

Mason: I used to always say when it was people's birthdays, I'd write in their card, "Life's a garden, dig it," which was Joe Dirt. Do you remember the film Joe Dirt?

Tommy: Mate, I love Joe Dirt.

Mason: I've got to rewatch it.

Tommy: Joe Dirt, eh?

Mason: There's some of those films, Joe Dirt, there's the Napoleon Dynamite. Gotta get, feel like they wouldn't be as good second time around. Nah. But anyway, so you're talking phrases.

Tommy: Yeah, my phrase at the moment, and it's like—

Mason: Can I guess? Quite deep. Alright. Yeah, go for it. It's an actual phrase.

Tommy: Yeah, it's quite deep. It's like advice. And it's not mine.

Mason: Okay.

Tommy: But it's something that's— So, what is it? I think these things are resonating within me at the moment and like—

Mason: Resonate's a big word at the moment.

Tommy: Resonate. So, this one is, don't wait to be picked. Pick yourself.

Mason: Yeah, Seth Godin.

Tommy: Yeah. And I love Seth.

Mason: Yeah.

Tommy: He's amazing. You've got every one of his books.

Mason: Yeah, Poke the Box. He talks about that a lot.

Tommy: But it's so, I think for, industries like media, radio, TV, online YouTube channels, like it is, it's, that is the explanation of that saying, don't wait to be picked, pick yourself.

Mason: Well, I reckon if I'm just doing a search on my Medium, which is like the, you know, like writing articles and stuff. I don't know if I took it down because it was, I saw it the other day and it embarrassed me because I literally was Yeah, when you write stuff, I think I have taken it down.

Tommy: Well, you can search your Medium page.

Mason: Oh no, it was just on my Medium page and I've literally, I have edited it. Can you see your end?

Tommy: So what's your point of this?

Mason: My point was I did an article, the only article that was on there, and I think I just deleted it, was about picking yourself. I used all capital letters and shit and I was just like—

Tommy: So let's talk about it. Yeah, it's, um, I was having a conversation today about somebody. Okay, I've had two conversations. I've offered up this piece of advice two days in a row.

Mason: Okay, great.

Tommy: Number one was to my friend who was very close to getting on The Block. Okay, for the second year round.

Josh: Renovate your own fucking house, is that what you said? No, I actually didn't.

Tommy: But he was like, oh, so yeah, they said that we could probably, we might be contenders for next year, so I'll probably just like hang out, probably see if they will, um, contact us again and, you know, follow up with them.

Josh: But that scenario where you're waiting for this Channel 9, and you also fucking know these producers have so many people— like, how many times have you thought you were going to be on something and you just, you're so far off? But everyone, they're just hedging their bets. They've got 100 people that they're getting, and they're saying that to everybody.

Tommy: And that's the example, like my friend. I think he's talented and I think he would be great on a reality show or TV or whatever. But it's like those things, that saying embodied what you're waiting around for.

Josh: So, picking yourself, I guess, as a radio presenter would be having a podcast.

Mason: Yeah.

Tommy: Because the only difference is the money.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: Really.

Josh: And audience, money.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: I mean, but you find an audience, you find the audience. Having the difference between having, I guess, a Regional radio is the— there's a few things. You're getting the discipline, you're getting an audience, you're getting an understanding of sponsorships, advertising, content directors, being part of a big cult, like a cog within a big machine. I think that that's worthwhile. But as soon as you learn that shit, you gotta fucking get out of there.

Tommy: And everyone wants to get out of that big cog.

Mason: Yeah, and most people are stuck on that.

Tommy: Yeah, well, I think a good example is— and I You know, the Barefoot Investor.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: He does a finance dude legend. I work with him doing video stuff and he does a radio spot.

Mason: Yeah.

Tommy: And I know it's not his like bread and butter.

Mason: Yeah.

Tommy: But if he was to do his own podcast, build in there one day a week.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: Oh, sorry. One day or every single day, 5 days, like what we're doing.

Mason: Yeah.

Tommy: He's got a profile. He's— that's picking yourself. That's not waiting for producer to go, oh, can you come on this show to talk to us?

Josh: Yeah, absolutely.

Tommy: So like, that's what I see where there's a lot of people who have these opportunities and they might have put in this pre-work and they've got this amazing opportunity to pick themselves.

Josh: Well, and so many people spend a lot of time— like, how many— how much time have you spent— though this isn't to you, but this is to the audience— writing an application for a grant When like, my whole thing is like, okay, how much is this gonna cost? I'm not gonna fucking spend a year trying to squeeze $20 grand from some company, you know, some organisation, ABC or whatever, to then have all of these limitations around it. If you believe in your idea, don't try and fucking sell it to Vice. How many people have an idea and they say it'd be perfect for Vice and they sell it? It's just so true. Fucking make it. Yeah. Stop being a dickhead about it.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: Geez, I've done well with the whole non-swearing thing, haven't I? But that picking yourself is a big one. I mean, it's funny.

Tommy: That's so true about the Vice thing. You've even said that that would be perfect for Vice.

Josh: Fucking everyone does. Like everyone, it's like, oh, this would be perfect for Netflix or this is perfect for— Yeah, it would be, but make it. And then I think probably the thing that I found is that I have no problem in picking myself. But I think where it becomes a slight issue is when you pick yourself, but you sort of like deep down want to get picked. And probably the biggest example is those people who like go freelance, which is their version of just being unemployed. So, they're saying, "Oh, I'm freelance at the moment," but they're fucking job hunting all their stuff. And like, that's all well and good, but you've got to, if you want to give freelancing a go, stop going to fucking job interviews. Like, think about how many jobs in the last 2 years you've turned down. Because you're like, no, that's not what I want. Where there's a— I know that when I was freelancing 5 years ago, that it was sort of like freelancing with like with one eye open on the sort of job listings.

Tommy: The only reason we're doing this podcast is because I am doing what you're saying. I was doing some freelance stuff and I was trying and I thought the right thing was to get a job with a big radio station again. So, I was holding out and then I got one back in Melbourne. So, I moved from Bondi. Back to Melbourne, and now we're here.

Josh: Yeah, it's—

Tommy: I'd never have done that.

Josh: Yeah, I think like it's all part of the learning. Yeah, it's all part of the learning. And I think if anything, you realise how quick and nimble— I think the other mistake people make is they think that they need to emulate what's already out there. So they say, okay, well, I'm going to pick myself, I'm going to start my own radio show. So they're like, okay, I have X amount of breaks, and if I can emulate radio where it's like that's not your— the biggest thing to keep in mind is what is your point of difference. You know, your, your point of difference, if you're competing with the Southern Cross Austereos or the, um, our, uh, like ARN or any of that sort of stuff, like they're these big fuck-off companies, right? So the point of difference probably from day dot isn't going to be trying to interview like all of the other, you know, radio shows interview.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: And I think that that's part of the struggle is it's okay to be the small boat. If you're a big ship and you sort of, and you treat it like that way, you're going to be just as slow. Whereas if you can use your advantage of being nimble, you don't have the limitations.

Tommy: Well, I reckon that there would be majority of radio presenters out there and people in TV that if you said to them, you could have your own, you could have your own show on TV or you're a big YouTube channel or a big podcast versus your own radio show. A lot of them now that the ones that are in it would probably choose the podcast or the YouTube channel.

Josh: TV presenters want to be YouTubers and YouTubers want to be TV presenters. This is across the fucking board. Every YouTuber, like especially in, I notice for whatever reason the UK, this seems to be a big thing. YouTubers getting radio shows, like being really romantic about the sort of mainstream media and wanting to make that jump. And then they go in there and realise the limitations. Yeah, it's picking yourself. I think that the one realisation is that it's a self-discovery. It's something that you can't tell someone and just expect them to be able to do. And most advice, That's what I found. I've been so fucking disappointed over the last 10 years because the amount—

Tommy: No one's listened to your advice.

Mason: No.

Josh: Well, you give people, like, you see so much potential in people and you're like, if only this person did, like, how many times have you seen someone who's super skilled or super talented or super smart? And if they just did A, B, and C, they'd be fucking the next big thing.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: But they don't and they're not. And that's the difference. And that's why, like, the people that I respect, like, Bri and I were talking about this the other day, people that we respect are people like you, people like Simon Taylor, the comedian. It's people who are fucking hustlers that are going to make it work no matter what, that don't allow all of those things that can get in the way to get in the way. And then also like, fuck, respect, even more respect to those who don't have the privileges that you, me, Simon do, which is that we're fucking white dudes in Australia. But the people who are hustling and that are creating a path for themselves, I think that that's the other thing. What people want is a path. That fuck, I feel like this is our first ranty show. This is the sort of shit that I fucking rant about.

Tommy: Yeah, this is what I want you to talk about, because I love it when you're talking to me about this shit all the time.

Josh: This is why I rant all the time. But the reason people don't pick themselves is because by picking yourself, you have no guaranteed path. You have no guaranteed map. And what people want is they want a defined map. People want to, the people who want to pick your brain or that want they want a job because it's a different mindset. I've worked with people where it's like, okay, you just need, you need to do A, B, and C. You need a website, you need to set up these pages, you need to freelance. And they come back and they say, all I want is a job.

Tommy: Yeah. How much do you think that is these people like Gary Vee and all these entrepreneurs selling this life, selling this hustle life, right? But then there's people that are working for somebody that only might think that they want to be the entrepreneur hustler because they see someone else do it, but it's not truly within them. And so it's not really what they want to do.

Josh: It's an accessory. I mean, the problem with entrepreneurship, the problem with all of this stuff is that at some point we turned it from being fucking the unromantic small business to the romantic startup. And everyone wants to be fucking Zuckerberg because what people want, I think, is influence. And if you think about it, that influence used to be in your brawn, in your strength, in, you know, being a peacock or whatever. And the funny thing is the peacock in 2018 is the fucking nerd who knows how to work a computer and has glasses and that can engineer shit and that can make like, makers.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: Um, and I think that even speaking to, um, uh, my niece, she, you know, should be, uh, you know, for first year of high school, everyone wants to be a fucking YouTuber.

Tommy: Is that what they're saying?

Josh: Everyone wants to be. And the thing is that kids, like, um, the reality is just like not everyone's smart enough to be a doctor. I'm not smart enough to be a doctor. Yeah. Some kids aren't charismatic enough to be in front of camera. And I think that the interesting thing is it's, um, I don't know if— if I think that these things always exist. People, kids wanted to be on MTV. Yeah, they want to be on Jackass, they want to be on all of that. And now, yeah, Getaway. And now they want to be YouTube stars. And the problem is I think that for most of them, just like Getaway, what that people wanted in Getaway is they wanted to travel They wanted the limelight. They didn't, what they didn't want and what I think if we spoke to our friend Jules would tell you is it's not as fucking glamorous as what these things, and that's the thing with even being a YouTuber, like a YouTuber in, as a result, if you are one of the, you know, 0.1% has success and has fame and has all of these things, but for the most part, it's creative frustration and it's, working hard and it's understanding how to put a project together.

Tommy: Yeah, I, um, ran people through today a whole bunch of editing things and it was like a workshop for creating video content and it made me just realise how much monotonous shit I've done. Yeah, and I'm still not even that great. Yeah, like I can make videos, I can make I can make ones that are shit, but the amount of little bits and pieces, my point of it is you need to be so into that something.

Josh: Yeah.

Mason: To be the best.

Josh: Because how are you going to do it all the time? Like it's not sustainable.

Tommy: And I think video and I think podcasts like you do, we put this podcast up in 5 minutes after we've finished. And it's because of the 10 years of you being a nerd doing this so much.

Josh: And the fact that I was doing this in 2005. The thing is that the reason I don't have to YouTube how to do it is literally what I learned when I was 15 years old making The Josh Janson Show.

Tommy: And, and, and so the YouTubers, these young kids, or these your nephew, nieces, friends, yeah, the probably the reality of it is they won't be able to make it through all that stuff, this annoyance, the 10-year apprenticeship you did.

Josh: I think that the thing also to consider is that even I think that there's this fear within our industry that all the young guns are going to come in and they're going to be fucking amazing at After Effects and all that sort of thing. But there's always a compromise. There's always— so if you're spending, you know, 8 hours a day doing After Effects, uh, maybe you don't have great social skills, or maybe there's all these other elements to it as well. So you're gonna get, gonna get people who are great. Uh, I think that the, the people who are going to be really powerful, those slashies, which is the direction I'm going in, which is I went super niche, I did all the video stuff, and then I realised I'm like Actually, the only reason I'm not picking up a stills camera or picking up a microphone is because I've created this predefined idea of what I'm meant to be, that I'm meant to be, that a filmmaker, if you are going to be a serious filmmaker, you can't have a podcast or you can't be taking stills because what does that say about your craft? And I think that it's a, we're at an interesting, we're at an interesting point where we're sort of at this, crossroads. But, um, you know, you talk about not being romantic about certain things. I think that that's, that's one of them, is not being romantic around the labels, around I'm a writer, I'm a filmmaker, I'm a photographer.

Tommy: And then even where I kind of bring it back to is like where you post stuff. Like, if you're like, I only post it to YouTube because I'm a YouTuber, it's like whatever channel works, you don't have control of, unfortunately.

Josh: Absolutely.

Tommy: My Facebook page has more likes on that than my subscriber base on YouTube.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: And it's only because at some point it's really worked there and my biggest videos have been on Facebook. And, you know, so it's like I couldn't— if I was to just be, nah, YouTube only, don't do it to that stuff. It's like, I'll die.

Mason: Yeah.

Josh: And I think also that the opportunity when you are in the early days is it's like You know, I've heard women in sort of male-dominated industries talk about the benefit is that no one expects much from you and then that can, you can fucking fly under the radar and do amazing work. And that is the benefit of being a beginner, starting. Even, I forgot the guy's name, he's Dan. Oh geez, there's lightning. It's getting a bit stormy. Um, the dude, I think he did 10% Happier or something like that. He was on Matt D'Avella's podcast.

Mason: I know.

Josh: Yeah, he was on Matt D'Avella's podcast, The Ground Up Show. Definitely worth a listen. But he talked—

Tommy: Dan Hill? No, Dan—

Josh: I was gonna say Dan Hill.

Tommy: No, Dan— Sam— Sam— Dan Harris. Dan Harris.

Josh: Dan Harris.

Tommy: Yeah, yeah, he was a TV guy. Yeah, became a meltdown and lost his shit.

Josh: Lost his shit on, on, on air, on national television. Could have been you. Uh, he fully had a meltdown, like, in, uh, yeah, and then found meditation and shit. But he talks about the beginner's mindset. It was literally on— I've got to give full credit to Matt D'Avella's podcast. It's such a— worth a listen. And also just, he's got his YouTube channel and stuff. In the show notes, we'll put in the show notes. But, uh, Dan— what the fuck is his name? Dan Harris. Which sounds very similar to— who's the—

Tommy: Sam Harris.

Josh: Sam Harris. So it was Dan Harris.

Tommy: That's why it's the same dude, mate. Sounds very similar.

Josh: Dan Harris. So in his latest podcast, which sounds like we're just doing a fucking recap of other people's podcasts now, but he talks about the beginner's mindset. And what he says is, when I fuck up is when I think everything's going to be fine and I'm really confident. He said, the space where he does his best work is beginner's mindset. And what he talks about is it's when he's got the little bit, he's got a little bit of anxiety, he's a little bit cautious. It's when you turn on the recording on the microphone and you're not being some super loose unit, but you're actually being really thoughtful. And that is when he's at his best. And I think there's a lot to be said about the beginner's mindset because the beginner's mindset to me also isn't romantic about the shit that you're doing in the sense of it's saying, it's realising that you don't have all the answers. Yeah. And fuck, it's so, you know, you talk about like the phrases and stuff like that. I get hooked on different theories or thoughts or, you know, there's one by the guy who is the main dude from This American Life. What's his name? Ira Glass. And he talks about the gap. And what the gap is, is it's the time in your life as a creative when you know what's good. So as a filmmaker, you know what cinematography, what looks good, the shallow depth of field looks good, all of these things look good. And the gap is when you know what looks good, but you can't fucking make it happen. You try and film it and you can't get the shot the way that it looks. Looks in the videos that you love, or you can't get the colour grading right. And that is the most frustrating section, is when you're in the gap. And his thing is like, that passes, you, you continue, you work on it, um, and that's part of the process. Whereas a lot of people can be dismayed where it's like, my photo, I know what looks good now and I can't do it. It's, um, it's interesting. Yeah, uh, podcast recommendation of the week, or two things. Podcast app, what is it called?

Tommy: Podcast One? It's not the Podcast One.

Mason: No, no, no, it's not Podcast One.

Tommy: Pocket Casts.

Josh: Pocket Casts, yeah, Pocket Casts.

Mason: It was like 5, you know, I love paying for shit.

Tommy: Yes, you love paying for apps. Pay up the free version if there is one.

Josh: I don't think there is, no. Okay. No, it's $6, $6, but it's fucking great because it will, if you're listening to a lot of podcasts, it helps you manage them in a really nice way.

Mason: So that app is really cool, Pocket Casts.

Josh: The reason I heard it about it was because one of you listeners is listening through that app. If you are listening through that app—

Tommy: And it's not you.

Josh: It's not me. And I said, oh, this looks interesting. I saw it in the stats, had a—

Mason: did a search and I fucking love it. It's great. It shits on the Apple Podcast app, which is a piece of shit.

Josh: But the podcast that I was going to suggest is called The Accidental Creative. I listened to like a 20-minute— podcasts with them today. Phenomenal. What are you listening to?

Tommy: Just How I Built This, which is entrepreneurs, you could call it, but half of them are just like dudes who have fluked it. Started businesses, big businesses that, you know, WeWork, Chipotle, and you just hear from the ground up how they built— Chipotle? Chipotle.

Mason: So fucking Aussie.

Tommy: How they built these empires. And it's fascinating because half the shit that they're going through in their head is exactly what the small business owner that will never scale his business is going through and that we're all equal in that way. Absolutely. And so there's, you can, yeah. Anyway, it's worth listening to. Two things to wrap it up.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: Have you drank coffee before this episode?

Josh: Yeah, you did.

Mason: Yeah. What time? Early, early, early. What time?

Josh: Uh, um, uh, like 9:30 this morning. Yeah.

Tommy: You will, because you're off your fucking head.

Josh: You've been really, you know, the funny thing is I was on such a, like a low before this. I think it's all fruit. Yeah, we had fruit before this because, and I think it's, um, I'm feeling good. I got heaps of shit done today.

Tommy: Number 2, if you're listening to this, we haven't been, we haven't talked about this. We haven't put it out there on our social media.

Josh: This is episode 10 too.

Tommy: Please, we really appreciate everyone who is listening.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: And let us know if you're an early listener, please let us know.

Josh: We do have the PO box. I fucking cheque it every day and literally I've only had 2 things sent and they've both been packages too big. For the PO box, so I have to end up like going in anyway. So, it's a disaster.

Tommy: What is the PO box? Keep it out there.

Josh: PO Box 400, Abbotsford, Victoria 3067. And if you're doing it from overseas, just add Australia there for a bit of shits and giggles. But fuck, how good would it be? The first bit of mail that we get, I'll send you something back as a thank you.

Tommy: You're saying we'll pay you to send us something?

Josh: No, I'm not saying no, but I'll, you know, I love buying shit. I'm gonna, I'll send them something.

Tommy: Alright. We're wrapping this up.

Mason: Great.

Josh: Thanks, everyone. This has been The Daily Talk Show. Remember, you can subscribe to us on all those podcasting apps, including Pocket Casts, which I mentioned, and we're also on YouTube. Tommy's at youtube.com/tommyjackett, which is— What was the latest video you posted? What's the one you just—

Tommy: See, I've made one that I can't release yet, so, it was the Craig Harper one.

Josh: Craig Harper.

Tommy: So, it's the live version of what you heard the other night.

Josh: The successful—

Tommy: Seeing as this podcast was kind of a bit of inspo or at least a bit deep for us, it's on that same level, but still.

Josh: Craig Harper's worth following as well on Instagram.

Mason: Where is he at?

Josh: Whiteboard?

Tommy: Whiteboard Lessons on Instagram and Craig Harper, just search it on YouTube. You'll find him.

Mason: Very good.

Tommy: Anyway, we'll catch you tomorrow.

Josh: Awesome. Have a good one, guys. Na night.