Self Consciousness, Purpose & Identity

Tommy: It's a very low barrier to get into the Gronk Squad.

Josh: That's crazy! We've committed to do The Daily Talk Show for 10 years.

Tommy: Hi guys. Hi guys.

Josh: Put it in the calendar. I just like to cheque the temperature in the room. I told you my squeegee story.

Tommy: It is outrageous.

Josh: Come on, let's go. It's The Daily Talk Show episode 950.

Tommy: Oh, it's a nice number. Edging closer to that thou.

Josh: It's Chewy Tuesday. Thank you to GB for saving the day today.

Tommy: One of the worst segments of this show, but I'll tell you why it won't be in 30 seconds after you do your review of one of the most common chewies known to people. Okay, this is 30 seconds.

Josh: I've never had this before.

Tommy: Starts now. Put the timer on now, GB.

Josh: Start the clock. This is Bubble Mint from Extra. It's pink. And we're going to try it. Yeah. Okay. Smells like bubblegum. Ready?

Tommy: I mean, people get furious at this flavour because they're like, well, mint and bubble mint bubblegum.

Josh: Should I do the FDI joke?

Tommy: No, one's good enough.

Josh: Don't move. Got a better laugh that time, Josh. All right. There you go, TJ. So, what have you got?

Tommy: I'll tell you after this.

Josh: Okay.

Tommy: So, I don't know, mate. I eat this every day.

Josh: To you.

Tommy: Amy has it in the car. We have it in the smaller form in the container. It's a, it's an 8 from me. I really like it because it's like sweet. So, it feels a bit naughty.

Josh: Yeah. So, the flavour is bubble mint and name the top 3 ingredients.

Tommy: Some kind of gum, flavor, sweeteners, um, what do they call it? Like, yeah, I don't know. I don't know what's in fucking chewing gum.

Josh: Yeah, it's, um, ingredients, uh, sorbitol. Yep. Gum base, emectant 422.

Tommy: I, I will bring— I'm saving this whole fucking show. Um, the difference between bubble gum and chewing gum, you want to know?

Josh: A bubblegum's a ball.

Tommy: No. Chewing gum base is a natural gum called chicle, harvested, I don't know, from the sap of a tropical tree called a sopapilla tree. Bubblegum base, on the other hand, is a mixture of starches and polymers made in a laboratory and specifically formulated to blow bubbles and kill children. Add that last bit in.

Josh: Polymers, plastic?

Tommy: Who knows, dude.

Josh: Polymers is plastic.

Tommy: But it's made in the lab. Anyway, that's the end of Chewy Tuesday.

Josh: Or is it?

Tommy: Open up your phone, go to your email. Okay.

Josh: Stand by.

Tommy: So, we started this year. I mean, it was strong. Chewy Tuesday, great idea. More oomph in the name than anything.

Josh: Oh, this is good. This is good. This is a USA Foods order, so we're gonna have to wait. Um, some initiative, you could have ordered this before today.

Tommy: Um, Tuesdays do come around every week.

Josh: Okay, so you've got— you've ordered, um, one packet of Trident gum.

Tommy: Yeah, Trident's like a classic American.

Josh: It looks like a, um, the packet of A dishwashing liquid. Yeah.

Tommy: Oh, yeah. I hope it smells like Denka Rub.

Josh: And so, what I'm excited about these final two, it's the Trident gum cinnamon and the Wrigley's Big Red gum.

Tommy: Classic Big Red.

Josh: In my new EDC, potentially. So, when do we think that that will get—

Tommy: 2 or 3 days. It'll be here next week. It'll be here at the end of this week for next week. But at least we've got 3 packets to actually do some kind of a worthwhile Chewy Tuesday. Chewies that you don't normally get that we can review. Um, we may as well move on though. So George, thanks for saving the day.

Josh: And TJ, no, you did a really good— yeah, no, George really did. He literally said, have you got Chewy? So I appreciate that. Uh, what's been happening, mate?

Tommy: Um, uh, Elon Musk was on, uh, Clubhouse.

Josh: Yeah, so what was the deal? So I mean, I, uh, I've been on Clubhouse. I've sort of moved on now. It's a classic bait and switch, isn't it?

Tommy: It's like— I'm surprised Chewy Tuesdays lasted longer than you on Clubhouse.

Josh: No, I do appear. My favourite thing to do in Clubhouse is actually not being in the clubhouse, but just letting people in. Because when you let them in, your name is on it forever. And so, there's some people that's like, haven't spoken to in 10 years. Some people who are like, you know, well-known in their industry or whatever. And they pop up on my phone because I have them in their contacts. Like, I have them in my contacts and it says so-and-so is waiting in line.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: And so there's something real top dog about being like, hey mate, come up. Like, imagine saying, come on in. But not only when you come on in, you need to wear a name badge saying guest of Josh Jantzen forever.

Tommy: In small print, Josh's bitch. No, I mean, So, recapping on what Clubhouse is, it's a new app released this year, was it?

Josh: No, released last year.

Tommy: So, it's gained traction in 2021. A lot of big name intellects are on it. It's basically an audio platform where people can livestream them talking. So, it's not video, but it's like rooms of people that jump in and listen, and that's about it. You can, you could get pulled in at any time, but the chances, if you think you're getting pulled into a conversation with—

Josh: Arrogant fuck.

Tommy: With Elon Musk.

Josh: I do, like, you do have the that moment. I even, if I feel like they're going to the audience, I'll sometimes quietly leave.

Tommy: Yeah. Yeah. Because that's a function.

Josh: Quietly leave. That's the only way to leave.

Tommy: Yeah. I wonder if there's like leave, slam the door.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: No. No.

Josh: It's ridiculous. So, anyway. So, anyway.

Tommy: So, last night I was at the gym. I went pretty late, 8:30.

Josh: And... Leg day?

Tommy: I did some legs. Did some squat thrusters, some thrusters.

Josh: Using like a barbell? No kettlebells?

Tommy: Barbell. Yeah. Did some kettlebell swings as well.

Josh: What sort of weight? 20 kgs.

Tommy: Just in between, you know, just to set between my lat pulldowns to get the heart rate up. Yeah, yeah, the glutes working, flexors. So you start with some lat pulldowns, get the back warm, get nice and thick, do some, um, uh, swings in between to get the heart rate up and the legs warmed up. Then you move over to the thrusters.

Josh: Any foam rolling?

Tommy: No foam rolling. No, not, not last night. Anyway, uh, so at the gym I see someone post, um, just saying that they just, that it was, their mind was blown listening to Elon Musk talk and grill the guy from Robinhood, the CEO of Robinhood, live on there.

Josh: This is huge for Clubhouse.

Tommy: Huge. And so, immediately I jumped onto Clubhouse and there's all these rooms that have been set up to talk about what happened. Even Eric Weinstein was saying something. I think it was, I think his group was about that, but he was like, what just happened for culture. Or maybe he's speaking about it.

Josh: So, I don't know anything about this. Can you tell me what they spoke about?

Tommy: So, he— You can find this on YouTube where some guy has known about what was going to happen because they do put like an announcement, Elon's coming on Clubhouse. And so, there was a room set up. It wasn't specifically for him to talk to the guy from Robinhood. They were talking for an hour about a bunch of shit, right? And then they were talking about aliens. They was talking about how to get to Mars. Some interesting shit about rocket science and intellectual stuff that, you know, I can't keep up with. I was just going to the YouTube video to find the bit where he grills the guy from Robinhood. Robinhood's the investment app or the stock trading app. And he gets this guy, this guy comes in through, there's a facilitator who invites the guy in and then Elon just all of a sudden starts, mate, what has happened? Everyone wants to know. But he was so—

Josh: Do you think it was set up?

Tommy: Um, nah, I reckon Elon was just riffing. Yeah, because at one point the guy's like, um, so I'll tell you a bit about who, you know, what Robinhood is. I'm the CEO. And Elon says to him, yeah, we know, mate. Yeah, we know. But then he's like, wants to give context, but he was really grilling him about it. What's your, uh, you know, just technical stuff about like who actually is behind the app and saying you know, what's your allegiance to these people in making this decision? But it was interesting.

Josh: But that's always it on YouTube now that we can go.

Tommy: It's now on YouTube. You can just watch Elon Musk on Clubhouse, which it seems he's— Elon's like, I heard about this a week ago, this app.

Josh: Really?

Tommy: That's all?

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: And even the other guy from Robinhood said, I literally heard about this app.

Josh: Oh, so Clubhouse.

Tommy: Okay.

Josh: I thought you meant—

Tommy: Sorry, no, not Robinhood. Yeah, Clubhouse. But I mean, this is the thing, these— It's so interesting. I like going to parties with my son's friends' parents and like, you know, chatting to them and just realising the fucking bubble that I live in. When you're talking to people outside your bubble.

Josh: Well, this is like even when I used to work in radio and when we would do something on FeeFee and Jules, you know, driving your home, Fee Fan Jewels. We thought that that was like— I just assumed whenever we did something, everyone, everyone in Victoria was listening. It was so funny when I went from there to a tech company and there was only one person in like the finance team who listened to radio.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: And was at all impressed that I was Web Guy Josh.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: You know, just fucking come in dick swinging the guys. Web Guy Josh is here.

Tommy: It shows you how far your head can go up your asshole. Not just you. I mean, not just fucking you.

Josh: Yeah, it was me too. I mean, the great thing about Web Guy Josh very quickly is that that was sort of the name, you know, a persona you really embodied, which is very similar to me.

Tommy: Who came up with Web Guy Josh?

Josh: It was, well, they had like Web Guy Blake. They're all the, they're all web guys, web girls.

Tommy: So just insert name.

Josh: Exactly. Exactly.

Tommy: First bit, Web Guy, Web Girl.

Josh: But the funny thing was they stopped when they changed their content management system for their website. I think that any time they did an article where it didn't, they didn't put someone's name to it, it would come up as Web Guy Josh.

Tommy: So you got all the SEO.

Josh: Yeah. Well, the funny thing is all the stuff that was a little bit controversial that no one wanted to put their name to. Yeah. Was done by Web Guy Josh.

Tommy: Oh yeah.

Josh: But yeah, no, it was, it was very sort of, you would have felt that being in Shepparton. You feel like you're doing the the biggest things in the world. Or maybe it didn't feel like that.

Tommy: No, I did. You go into a supermarket and then— not a supermarket, because we know that the number one rating radio show is in Coles and it doesn't have anything to do with any number one digital radio.

Josh: It's digital, but they even say in Coles, I don't know if you like, listen, stream Coles Online at home.

Tommy: Oh, really?

Josh: Yeah. So they're trying to get you to now listen. Makes sense. Like, you like control all of the ads, like, rather than having to advertise on a radio station, why not just create your own? Make it good.

Tommy: You'd go into a shop and you could hear your ads or, you know, bits from your own show, which was kind of cool, but it fucking does put your head up your ass a little bit. But then it is the bubble, right? It's like people just have lives that are going on. People don't know about half the tech shit that you're interested in that you— Maybe I wonder why Evolution, like it has become a thing where the bubbles that we live in, like what's it serving when you think that your world is the world? Like, what does it serve for survival? Or is it ego that has just taken hold? And as, you know, Holiday says, Ryan Holiday, is the enemy. Ego is the enemy.

Josh: Well, I think that you empathise with what you see. And so, if you're just in this bubble unless you have any reason to leave. That's why, like, you know, some people who never travel anywhere, they don't have any perspective. But there are some people who it's like they openly try and they're reading about stuff and they're watching different news.

Tommy: But the last night listening to some gurus talk, some meditation, a conversation between Two in house.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: Yeah. It's basically, no, it's conversation between two meditation teachers, but reflecting on the thought of self-consciousness and it needing, it relating to other humans. And so, think about being in front of dogs, animals.

Josh: You're about the dog that mauled the other dog at the Bunnings.

Tommy: No good. No good. Rather, I mean, would you rather that a child or another dog? If you had to choose.

Josh: Depends.

Tommy: Another dog.

Josh: Yeah, yeah, definitely.

Tommy: But this is the point almost also that if you say your pants, you're in front of a crowd of 100 people, humans.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: Your pants come down, they see your pecker.

Josh: Yeah, yeah, sure.

Tommy: I mean, depending on who you are, you might be just like, fuck yeah., you know what I'm packing. Or it could be for most people like myself, I'd be embarrassed. I'd be self-conscious. I'd be like, oh no, you're immediately thinking, what are these humans or what are these people in front of me thinking? Which is the feeling of self-consciousness. Whereas if you had a bunch of dogs in front of you that just were woofing.

Josh: So, what's the difference between self-consciousness and self-awareness?

Tommy: The difference between self-consciousness and self-awareness. Well, what is self-consciousness?

Josh: Mate, you brought this topic up. But I'm just—

Tommy: So, self-consciousness.

Josh: Self-conscious. So, yeah, if we look at it. So, self-conscious. Because when we think of self-conscious, normally we think someone that it's not— It has negative connotations, right. If you are self-conscious, you are feeling negative feelings, right. Do you ever feel self-conscious? And feel good?

Tommy: No, no, no. I think it's correlating to a negative experience. But the self-conscious is determining that you, like, you're very aware of you as a self, like you as a—

Josh: Yes.

Tommy: As a shell and you're highly connected to that. So, you know, the— If something happened to you and then it would be directly impacting the person that you think you are. So, It is self, as in the human.

Josh: The definition?

Tommy: Yeah, give us the definition.

Josh: Self-consciousness is a heightened sense of self-awareness. It's— it is a preoccupation with oneself as opposed to the philosophical— a philosophical state of self-awareness, which is the awareness that one exists as an individual being, though the two terms are commonly used interchangeably.

Tommy: Which is interesting because the half the meditation that I'm practising is about not having as an attachment to self or who I think I am and what I look like, what I sound like, and lowering the intensity and the connection to that.

Josh: Do you think you care what people think more or less? Than 5 years ago?

Tommy: Much less. Much.

Josh: Why do you say that?

Tommy: Only because I've been practising every day meditation.

Josh: But don't you think, like, it's interesting because I would say 5 years ago you had more bravado. So in some regards—

Tommy: What's happened to me?

Josh: You've become a pussy.

Tommy: Josh Hansen's bitch.

Josh: No, but I think, like, isn't— So bravado doesn't necessarily like, um, connect to real confidence. So you are more confident now than what you were 5 years ago, do you think?

Tommy: Um, if confidence is correlated to, uh, understanding of my experience or like where I sit in, in the world. So what I—

Josh: What do you think confidence is? Yeah, so if you step back, what do you think confidence is?

Tommy: I know what you're saying. Confidence can be just the willing to give something a crack or, you know, standing up in front of a crowd of people and doing something that seems bold, most people won't want to do. But then confidence in understanding. So, I think there's a real confidence in somebody who isn't as concerned about how they are appearing to everybody else in the sense of relating to like being the feeling of self-conscious.

Josh: So, like, and so, someone, some of the most insecure people are the most entertaining.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: Because they, because of their lack of confidence, they need, they feel like they need to bring a certain energy. Whereas if you don't have it, if you don't feel, uh, self-conscious, or if you don't feel insecure, you, you are confident in silences or not over-explaining yourself, or, you know, having to be the loudest person in the room.

Tommy: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's interesting the self-conscious relates to self-awareness because you can be highly aware of how you're feeling self-conscious, but there's probably a level of awareness that you can drop away from the feeling of being self-conscious. So, right now I'm looking at your face. Yes. And then who are you looking back at? Like if in my experience in this moment, What am I thinking that you're looking back at?

Josh: Can you draw me— can you draw a capital E on your head?

Tommy: Why?

Josh: I just— I watched a masterclass on the weekend, so now I'm an expert. Yeah, cool.

Tommy: So I drew it the way that you're seeing it, not the way that I would see an E. That's all I got.

Josh: Um, but it is Daniel Pink who wrote the book, um, Drive. It's a great book. He has a masterclass and it's all about— He used to be a speechwriter for presidents. He's like really an interesting guy. And it's all about influence and things like that.

Tommy: Is that all? Draw an E on your head.

Josh: I'm going to—

Tommy: No, don't fuck with me. Do you think you're self-conscious?

Josh: No. So, here's an example. Think about the first time we ever recorded the show. Think about the cameras and the heat that was coming off the cameras onto our face. Like, you feel like we have this experience where we're talking, but you feel the camera just there, and it's like, it's an energy that pulls you. Did you feel that?

Tommy: Definitely. Definitely.

Josh: You—

Tommy: It's like a— You're grounding into yourself. So, like, the whole ability to sort of let go of the feeling of you inside a shell, which is your body, and thinking that this is the centre of your experience. It makes you feel like you're really the centre of the experience of life. And so having cameras on you, you are then thinking about how you're inside or the feeling of being inside.

Josh: And so I think that part of it for me, I think about like how I had like the cut or cold sore or whatever the fuck it was on my face. Still do. Hasn't really like— I keep forgetting that I have it and then I like watch back the video, whereas I feel like previously I would have been thinking, oh, how does it look? Do I like— do I need to fucking like, um, clear it up? Do I fucking put something on it? Or like, is it like too obvious? Do we need to move where the camera— like, I think that, um, yeah, but I think some of it is, uh, the idea that if you show yourself when you're not always looking your best, it sets up a realistic expectation. Whereas if you're always We've always met those people where it's like they look great on Instagram and in person it's like it's an abomination. Yeah.

Tommy: And so then there could be a level of self-conscious those people experience based on it's not— it doesn't cheque out every moment.

Josh: Well, do you know what? I think part of the reason why I've stopped caring about how I look on camera is because I look back at stuff 2 years ago where I know that I was self-conscious. I didn't like the way I looked. And I look at myself, I'm like, I look good there. And so it's like, hang on, clearly whether it's body dysmorphia or fucking just like a self-consciousness, so it's like, okay, uh, what about if it's actually not the case? Like, if, if, uh, there's so much in confidence in being able to communicate, and so giving yourself the benefit of the doubt in that moment where it's like, actually don't look as bad as I think I look. I think that that's a good spot to be in.

Tommy: Well, self-consciousness is purely related to thinking. It's like if there were— And so, if there's different thinking. So, for instance, it's all thought when you're thinking somebody is— When you're sitting across from somebody, you're saying, they're looking at my lip. They're thinking this about my lip.

Josh: But then also you put like, if you are putting that into your mind, That's all that you are waiting for. You are waiting for the cues. This is to Jess's point. Anytime I say, oh, shit's getting bad, or like, fucking get ready for it, she's like, don't put it out in the universe. And I think that part of it is, it's like, if it's like when you're driving, if you look as you're driving, if it's a, if it's a road where you've got cars going both ways, you don't look at the cars on the other side of the road because whatever you look at you end up turning into a little bit. And so, the best thing to do is like, and I guess from a negative perspective is if you go into every conversation and say, oh, you know what, like preparing for the worst, you'll probably project a worser outcome than if you were thinking positively.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: Do you agree?

Tommy: Yeah, definitely. And I think the The learning comes for a lot of people when it doesn't happen, because you can still think pretty negatively and the negative outcome doesn't appear. But the experience of having and the spending the time in a negative place is a spiral of thought because it is just all in your head until it happens.

Josh: Isn't it crazy when you wake up in the middle of the night how much more vulnerable you are to negative thoughts?

Tommy: In what way?

Josh: So, I woke up the other night at like 2 in the morning and I was like, hmm, sort of feels like the world's ending.

Tommy: What did you be watching before you went to bed?

Josh: YouTube.

Tommy: I have not. No, I wouldn't say that would happen.

Josh: No, that doesn't happen.

Tommy: Not at all.

Josh: I find that my darkest, darkest thoughts happen at the middle of the night and then I'm like, you know what? It's in the middle, it's the middle of the night. I think if I go to sleep, it will actually be better when I wake up. And I'll wake up, I'm like, ah, it's not as bad.

Tommy: No, you don't think— No, I can't say I go negative unless it, unless it's just, is something going on in my neighbourhood or I hear a noise. Yeah. Or something like that. But nah.

Josh: Well, that's a good, that's good.

Tommy: It is good.

Josh: I'm just trying to look it up. If you go to negative places when you wake up in the middle of the night.

Tommy: Yeah. And so then that is thinking. That's all thinking. And so this—

Josh: Are you still meditating every day? Yeah.

Tommy: This is the strategy of meditation is to pull. So, you're stuck in your head at that moment. You're asleep. Your mind is just going. And that is breaking the spell of that to— So, for instance, even if you are thinking negative, it's not— Even if you are thinking negatively, it is what it is. Don't— it doesn't need to be that that is a negative thing or should be annoyed at yourself. Breaking the spell of that to come back to thinking about your breathing or just trying to remove the attachment to those thinking is what will shift it.

Josh: And so, are you a guy that stays in the present, do you think, from a thinking perspective?

Tommy: Oh, never. Sometimes.

Josh: No, I mean, I, I just feel like I'm always thinking about it, like When I look at a calendar, I like look ahead like, what should I be like, not stressing about, but like, what is the problem that I'm going to have to solve in the future? So, like, that's like the idea of a calendar. Yeah. It's like, okay, we're going to put all the problems on your calendar. And so then you can cheque the calendar at any point just to know what all the problems are.

Tommy: No wonder you don't like calendars if you're looking at it as like a problems board.

Josh: But do you know what I mean? Like, no, but I think it's better knowing it than not knowing it. I know what you mean.

Tommy: You could see everything as problems. That are being solved or things that need a solution.

Josh: Or challenges. I remember I said to a client, you know, we'll help you solve the problems. Like, oh, we don't talk about problems. It's challenges. Yeah, we'll work on challenges.

Tommy: Okay.

Josh: I can't help you.

Tommy: But no, it's a constant battle. But there is a, like, it's literally this recording that I was listening to last night was talking about the The— It is basic. So, think about the time that you've been completely consumed, like we're speaking slightly meta at the moment about the process of thinking and the time that you have been— Nothing could break the spell of the thought process that's just happening. It's just, oh, oh, oh, no, that fucking— You know, you're totally grasped by emotion. You could see that as being asleep, right? You could see that as brain is in autopilot. Your thinking is just happening to you. You cannot control it. If you can break that, the feeling of like, whoa, like it's almost the equivalent of waking up from a dream.

Josh: So, people that compartmentalise then, is that what they're doing, that they're essentially doing? Or do you see?

Tommy: No, I don't think— I think that's still thought. I think if there's the opportunity to say—

Josh: So, how do you address it? So, for instance, it's like the answer isn't, ah, it's not happening.

Tommy: No, no, exactly.

Josh: But stop that thinking. So then what is it? Because we, I guess, like subconsciously we are still reconciling our thought. Like, that's why sleep is so good, because while we're sleeping, we're fucking processing everything that's happening.

Tommy: Um, your body's recovering too. I don't fucking know what's going on while I'm sleeping, to be honest.

Josh: Well, that's the whole like dream thing. Like, that's, that's all the dream stuff. That's like—

Tommy: So put it this way, you could do a meditation right now and whatever problems you have You can decide to leave them at the door for this 5-minute period. All your problems come back in 5 minutes, but if your choice is to, for the next 5 minutes, they're not needing to be thought about in that way. Put your focus into your breath, the present, this feeling sensations in your body. And so, the power of doing that over and over again is the practise of meditation, and it is what the benefit is. It's not to say that you end up getting away from that. It's just breaking the spell constantly, setting up the mindfulness alarm, which is when you're fucking— and I— and it is habit, right? It's habit formation, which means that you meditate enough and think and put some thought into that, try and get out of the thinking into some present. Hopefully when you are in a stream of that mess in your mind, you can be, you can have enough perspective, or you've built the habit that you can say, oh fuck, I'm in this again. There's something about, you know, when you're like, oh my God, I am fucking worked up, aren't I? And then it like takes some of the heat out of it. And so that, that is, that's the practice. Yeah. And it's not to say that you get away from ever thinking, uh, you know, literally ever thinking Your thinking stops. It's like, as if that's going to happen because it's— Because you don't control it anyway.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: It just streams in. You waking up middle of the night, why are you thinking that? You can't answer that for me, why you're thinking that, unless you're watching YouTube, world ending 5 minutes before bed.

Josh: Yeah. The— I think that a lot of people are struggling with purpose at the moment, especially like, especially with what's happening in the US with COVID And, you know, I was just listening to a podcast and I got the feeling that what we had 6 months ago, that feeling of like, oh, you know what, like especially YouTubers, just listening to a YouTuber, it's like, what can I film? And then it's like, what's the point? You know, if you're just talking about gear all the time.

Tommy: The reality of the purpose thing is that it is all thought. So, you can think that your purpose is to do X, Y, and Z, could manifest in feelings, but it's all then still relating back to thinking. And so that's why you can see these YouTubers who all of a sudden don't think that it's their purpose anymore to make YouTube videos about cameras. And then it has totally sucked out the purpose.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: Or the attachment to it that they have. And so, you know, you take away any of these things like jobs or like travel, travel vloggers, like What are they thinking right now? Oh man, it's pretty tough. Yeah, there's no travel.

Josh: I mean, but this is where reinvention— like, I wonder how many people have reinvented themselves in the last year.

Tommy: I don't think there's much negative in having your purpose challenged. I think—

Josh: what do you mean?

Tommy: I think it's a positive if you thought you were the guy, the girl and your purpose was X or Y, and then all of a sudden it's taken away from you, and you then question— because the purpose thing wraps up into your identity and self and what I mean, what I'm about, and who people think I am, and I'm the guy that has all the purpose. It's like, it can be a trap having purpose.

Josh: Well, that's not to say that it's not good. Like, I think, um, people like Gary Vee spend a lot of time talking about how good they are at self-awareness.

Tommy: Yeah, yeah, it's fucking crazy.

Josh: And it feels like it's a, um, it's like a, I don't know, an oxymoron. Like, just some level of saying that, like, so I guess you can be aware and just not care what people think. Like, I think that's a big thing.

Tommy: I think we've made it clear that self-consciousness relates to self-awareness, but not in the term of self-awareness to getting closer to being this enlightened, you know, very free and light individual. Because being self-conscious is totally just wrapped up in thought about your— you as a self, you as who Josh Jansen is, what that label means, and what— who you are. I mean, you can go so deep on this shit. This conversation I was listening to, it was this guy who literally wouldn't acknowledge so many things in this conversation with Sam Harris, the guy that I learned meditation off. Because he had the experience and dropped out. He was enlightened. And it's this, but it's the most mindfuck. Yeah, but because Sam's challenging him on all these things.

Josh: Remember D'Avella had that guy on his podcast that refused to say that he didn't like any of his previous work? Yeah, yeah, it's like, it's a bit silly.

Tommy: Like, how do you get a bit silly? It can get a bit silly. And that's where, mate, we're all fucking figuring it out. We're all figuring it out. But if you don't have your purpose and it's gone for the moment, I mean, maybe there is a version of sitting with the experience of what, what you have and who you, who you are beyond all those things, which is a new exploration.

Josh: Yeah, I think that the, like, identity is interesting. Like, it's, um, because it, like, it creeps up on you. It's a thing. Like, if you think about where we were before all of this. Like, we did— like, think about, like, our relationship. Think about, like, how all of these things have changed over the last, you know, 3, 4 years. But it doesn't— you don't necessarily feel it. You feel like the same people, but there's a huge amount of growth that's very hard to understand.

Tommy: Well, I mean, the world's geared towards really, um, understanding who, who you are and building an identity. Think about it.

Josh: It's like I wonder what, like, future, I think, is interesting. So, I think that a lot of people get their purpose from their future. Like what the, you know, I'm doing this thing and it's going to help me in the future. And so, when things happen, when it feels like the world's ending, like, I think people, like, generally—

Tommy: The world's not ending. I mean, it kind of is. I think that people feel like it's ending.

Josh: No, but I think that the thing is that when you see all these things happen, when you see, say, even stuff like the Robinhood stuff, all of these things, it's like it's changing the core way that capitalism, all of these different things have worked. And then we are all sort of the results of those things. And so, yeah, it's very strange to see, like, it feels like in the past year so many things have already changed. So, think about like our perspective of what an office should be or what it could be, and then think about now where it's like, look at what, what's happened with COVID and, um, you know, being able to access your spaces. And so yeah, it's very, it's very strange, I think, um, for a lot of people because it's like, oh, you know what, like, what the— what is the— like, especially if you went to a job, if you just went to a job every day Showed up, you had your coffee with your colleagues, you did your work and all that sort of thing, and then all of a sudden you weren't doing that. There's like a huge amount of time, like we've had a huge amount of thinking time, and then on top of that put a huge amount of stress and strain onto people. It's like you see all these things happen, like you, like I've seen so much change in the past, in the past year, right?

Tommy: It's been wild and we know nothing. We know nothing.

Josh: We are nothing. Who are we?

Tommy: Who is we?

Josh: Yeah. Yeah, I think it's—

Tommy: Any thoughts? Let us know.

Josh: Yeah. Hi@thedailytalkshow.com. I'd say, yeah, if you've, if you've had a complete reinvention, let us know. Like if these, if it's completely changed because I think like that's what I love about things like YouTube. And podcast, I'm sure people feel it with the podcast as well, as it's like you were getting to see people evolve and change their thinking. Think about even when Diavella had sort of like that time where he was having panic attacks and he was like talking about it. Like, that's like huge, like huge changes for people. So, yeah, it's, it feels like everyone's having a simultaneous experience, but we're not necessarily always good at calling it out. We're always like, fuck, yeah, I just— Like, how many people have said, man, I just feel tired at the moment. I don't know why. Like, it's like change. It's fucking— Like, it does.

Tommy: And going back to work, like, in a real office, you know, it's all fucking a bit tiring, to be honest.

Josh: Well, enjoy the rest of your Chewy Tuesday, everyone. Excited for next week with the new Chewies. But, uh, thank you, uh, GB, for the extra bubble gum. No, sorry, uh, bubble mint.

Tommy: I actually need my face.

Josh: Yeah, so do I. Alrighty, uh, have a good one, guys. See you tomorrow.